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Metroid Prime Sequence Breaking(v. 4.0) [Previously Ice+Grav before Thardus]

Archived by

Vigama

From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:27:19 PM
OK I went ahead and loaded this one up cause someone's got to do it. This is version 4.0 of the topic "Ice Beam + Gravity Suit before Thardus using Tripple Jump"

Current info is as follows:

Here is where you'll learn to break Metroid Prime's linearity.

Since Part 1, we discovered crazy tricks which includes:

-Ice Beam, Gravity Suit, Plasma Beam, Power Bombs, X-Ray Visor, Wavebuster before Thardus
-Skipping the Grapple Beam
-Going through tricky rooms without spiderball/boostball/grapple beam
-Space Jump before Flaahgra
-Wave Beam without Space Jump
-Skip the Crashed Frigate to get into Phazon Mines
-much more..!

Best Percentage rate is 27% either with Gravity suit and 4 power bombs or no Gravity Suit and 5 power bombs.

To have more information about these tricks, visit one of these websites (they are the same):

http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid

Current topics of discussion include:

- Trying to skip Spider Ball, Super Missles, Charge Beam, Boost Ball, and Varia Suit
- Finding a reliable way to get Space Jump early
- Getting the Sun Tower artifact without having to drop down after Flaahgra fight
- Accomplishing a run through Magmoor to Phendrana without Varia
- Any new Sequence of pickup discoveries
- Any new Alternate methods of retrieving an item
- Any new optimal collection orders for speed runs

Input is always welcome. Please check the websites above for current discoveries and roughly page 20 and higher of version 3.0 of this topic discussion to get fully up to date on the current state of affairs. Thanks

Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:30:49 PM
On my end, I've got some free time so I'm going to do some work on getting the space jump early by trying to see if the angle of placement on that mid-air morph bomb has any sort of affect on how close you can get to getting up on the ledge. Hopefully I'll turn up some positive results.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:33:53 PM
not sure if this really helps w/ space jump, since i haven't managed it myself, but altering the angle Samus is at relative to the final bomb is working well to make some of the tougher jumps by sacrificing height for a little added distance. problem is that space jump cliff seems so high...
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:41:03 PM
also, have you tried dbjm/tbjm from the back of samus' ship and trying to get on the ledge behind it? i get insanely close sometimes but just need a little more height.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:41:54 PM
Yeah no kidding on that one...I just have no idea how to pull this off on a regular basis unless somehow we've all become so obsessed with getting up there this this one spot that we are missing a better way up somewhere else...yeah its been tried before in a bunch of places, but not recently to my memory.

On a side note....20 attempts so far and I'm already going insane trying to get up there...man you guys have a lot more endurance than I do :D

---
Solr_Flare
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:43:09 PM
not me; I burn out quick trying that damned jump too. <=) Usually sliding off the ledge three times is enough to make me want to do something else.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:48:07 PM
The worst part is since we know it can be done, is when you are trying to attempt this #$$%# thing you don't do it casually at all...you are sitting there analysing and watching every single detail now so that when you do do it you remember how it was done. Sooner or later one of us will figure this puppy out though.

---
Solr_Flare
From: NEMISIS9k | Posted: 2/5/2003 4:39:53 PM
How many more of these dammed things is there gonna be.
---
"They say I start flame wars, and that a person calling sombody a moron is preventing them." -NEMISIS9k
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 4:43:57 PM
who knows.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 4:49:38 PM
Hi.

A small sugestion:

Try making a little bomb ladder like this:
#3 .
#1-2 .
==========
Ground.

BTW, have tried a million places and methods. But if gonna try from the ship i suggest the bomb ladder.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 4:52:50 PM
Obviously, all that followed by mid-air morphing.
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/5/2003 4:59:58 PM
i wonder if theres an area around the enterance to the space jump path (the one near the half pipe in tallon canyon) where you can clip onto the wall and perform another jump. who knows, maybe it will work with more than spiderball tracks.
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:01:33 PM
below that ledge you dbjm/tbjm to from the rock you can get stuck off the ground if you push against the wall, but from what i've seen it doesn't reset your jumps, it doesn't even let you jump. =]
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:04:19 PM
Also if you have some momemtum when hiting the second bomb the reach extends a bit.

BTW, the programers intentionally took measures to prevent this, cause have made some jumps from places that should clear the gap but they didnt.
Covered this in like nine pages in my previous topic but got deleted.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:17:29 PM
Ok, made the jump without varia ask away.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:19:26 PM
Also if you have some momemtum when hiting the second bomb the reach extends a bit.

That's what I've been concentrating on to make a couple of the trickier jumps needed in Phendrana w/o space jump, and it does help. I've tried using it off the back of the ship and can get insanely close to the edge with a great dbjm, but nothing more. Need just a little more give...
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:19:35 PM
Well to ask the obvious, where exactly was the spot you started from and ended up at and how did you get from the one to the other? Was it your bomb ladder idea?

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:23:50 PM
did you do it from the rock or the ship?
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:24:59 PM
*wills DEVILBIT's DC to magically grow a keyboard. ;)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:29:25 PM
Ok, as always from the rock. Was facing more or less backward to the Canyon door, gained momemtum with the second bomb, she just clinched there.

Second she gets fried in magmor in case anyone is gonna ask.

Took about 15-20 minutes to do so is not a time saver. Havent tryed this method for a long time because was trying to find a more user friendly one but since people here were having a bad time, got the jump before flagra to make any confirmations. And for the sake of KIP master plan.

So ask any other questions.
From: The Leech | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:29:36 PM
Hi. >_>
---
Bang bang.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:43:39 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 5:46:04 PM
When does the big bug starts to appear in main plaza? Didnt see him.
Defeated flaghra right now in the room so ask away if anyone wants to.
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:03:04 PM
right before varia is a decent one, but the only reasons i can see for having a save there is if you're interested in running to phendrana/testing out the sun tower situation.

when you get to phendrana shorelines is a decent one also. personally i have a save right outside the furnace (no ice beam/grav suit/etc) which i've used in the past for various things, but i'll probably overwrite it later.

100% files are also good since you don't have to worry about dying or anything, but you have to keep in mind that when you find something out, something about the situation might have been different when you actually do it for real (like people forgetting about the existence of the "runic gate" in sun tower). it can cause problems.
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:05:07 PM
just try to reload the rooms/find something new about sun tower... it probably won't work though.

i don't know when the bug appears, he's probably triggered by an item like most enemy changes.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:17:28 PM
No, the only thing (not usefull btw) cant space jump to flaghra remains before picking the varia suit and then entering the room again. Didnt have the charge beam bt dont think having that will help much for the cause.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:26:40 PM
=(
this doesn't look very hopeful unless somehow we can get through magmoor w/o varia
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:30:28 PM
you mean the chance of any more discoveries?
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:32:37 PM
Looking at the positive side of things at least you dont have that doubt in your head anymore.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:48:31 PM
More or less good news. Just made the jump from the ship to the ledge by doing the bomb ladder method.

But did it with space jump already at least this gives some hope.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:50:38 PM
How many energy tanks are currently possible before Varia and entering Magmoor? Is it just the first 3?
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:57:54 PM
yeah. can't get the one in training chamber because there's a thing that blocks you from going in the back way. and there's this one in magmoor workstation but there's wave beam doors all around (plus you need to shoot conduits to get it which requires wave beam).

with 2 more tanks and space jump i don't see it being so hard, but i doubt anyone will find a way to get more than 3 for the run since most of them aren't in chozo ruins.
From: sevensc | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:58:38 PM
ok, i have read all about the bomb ladder method but i don't think i quite get it, from you little drawing, bomb three is in the air and 1 and 2 are on the ground? what the? or are those your jumps using more than 3 bombs? some clarification would be great.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 6:59:46 PM
Ok managed to reach the ledge by bomb jumping from the left turbine (backwards to the save spot) and morphing into the air.

Its important to point to the left of the ledge you are facing because it appears to have a tip a bit closer.

This the second time that got there. It appears the method works just need confirmation from someone with a not space jump file.
If anyone wich to try suggest you do so.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:03:26 PM
I have a save at the ship before flaahgra from my previous space jump attempts. What exactly is "bomb ladder" ?
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:05:45 PM
Grabbed the ledge 4 out of 12 tries, if someone with a spance jump less file can confirmed then this trick can be used for SPEED RUNS.

So far is working very nicely, can help in speed runs because you have the save right there and if you waste too much time you can just reset the game and try again.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:10:02 PM
So far is bullet proof. Theres a previous post explaining the bomb ladder in this topic maybe pages 2-3.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:10:53 PM
Ok managed to reach the ledge by bomb jumping from the left turbine (backwards to the save spot) and morphing into the air.

Its important to point to the left of the ledge you are facing because it appears to have a tip a bit closer.

That's exactly the spot I was trying for/from earlier, but keep just missing it. That's encouraging that you got it that way; I'll keep trying.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:11:58 PM
I too am trying. I haven't been following the space jump goings ons though, where is the "rock" you guys go from?
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:14:14 PM
the rock is to the right of her ship.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:18:49 PM
Read the previous post, just have done it from the ship is a bit more easy to get the space jump early from there.
From: wizzlefoshizzle | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:22:59 PM
I'm not following... what exactly is a bomb ladder? I've seen devilbit's first post but i need more explaination.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:24:54 PM
I'm extremely close to making that jump from the ship; I just need a little bit more to make it. I've got Samus as far out as where it looks like nothing's supporting her, but I still can't quite manage it.

DEVILBIT, I don't understand what your ascii drawing of the bomb placement means. Should bomb 1 be placed slightly in front of bomb 2 or behind it?
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: keybladeswordsman | Posted: 2/5/2003 7:49:08 PM
Actually, I always keep track of my dbjm and you need more height, not distance. I tried dbjm and I came in contact of the ledge, but I did not reach the top. I'm saying more height is the key.If you can jump high enogh, then morph, then you could make it. ( A dbjm is higher than a normal jump)

And I mean doing this from the back of the ship.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:00:57 PM
hmmm... nah, looks like distance to me. I just need a little more forward momentum; many of the jumps I'm making seem to have plenty of height. Tough to balance this out just right. The jumps in Phendrana were easy by comparison.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:06:10 PM
I'm coming Just short of the ledge too, but it looks very possible. I haven't had a perfectly timed dbjm either so, once i find the exact spot to aim at, i should make it =p
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:22:32 PM
.᥼.*bump*.᥼.
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:28:52 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:32:30 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:33:49 PM
BOOYA! Space jump before flaahgra baby! I did it off the back of the ship =D
---
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:36:23 PM
nope, you were right keybladeswordsman, I needed to adjust the position of my third bomb a little and voila, that's the extra edge I needed to make the jump off the back of the ship. thanks for the suggestion. =)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:45:07 PM
I just made it up to the ledge as well =o
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:53:24 PM
man, she really POPS in midair when you've got the jump just right... I mean I know how you can get more height depending on the timing as well as placement with the bombs but when you've got the forward momentum, positioning, and timing all down perfectly she's like the easter bunny.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:54:51 PM
Anyone care to elaborate? Were the three bombs all pretty vertical? About how far left of straight ahead were you pointed, and about when did you morph, before after or at the peak of height?

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:00:28 PM
I'd like to also confirm the bomb ladder trick off the ship. I had been experimenting with the off-set positioning like I mentioned at the start of this new thread and hopped back online to check to check up on things and saw devilbit's ladder suggestion. Tried it from the ship and boom...5 out of 15 attempts no problem. This trick might be useful in one or two other spots as well now that I think about it. But what to call it....a dbjL(double bomb jump ladder) perhaps?

LOL if I were you guys who have been trying this for ages getting up there and out of nowhere this new method comes along thats fairly reliable I don't know if I'd cheer or break down and cry :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:01:39 PM
I can't seem to manage the same feat again, so take this with a huge grain of salt, but it seems like I was practically straight ahead and didn't really need the extra ledge at all. I morphed at the top of the jump. The bombs don't have to be that far out of vertical line if you ask me; I was having good results getting distance earlier today. The key is the momentum timed at the right instants, and getting maximum height out of the bomb jump with a late second bomb and a high 3rd.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:03:40 PM
Well, the way I made it, I never did any ladder nonsense, just a dbjm. I did the 2nd and 3rd bombs really quickly, so that I got a lot of momentum from them.
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:05:44 PM
scratch that first part; I just made it again and was looking for some specific things this time. I was aimed slightly to the left side of the ledge, just to the left of where it starts to bend toward the ship. She was in that standing still pose when she morphed out, but I don't think it really matters; I bet it would work w/ running animation too.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:06:00 PM
funkytoad told me that method on aim, and that's what i used to get there.
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:06:39 PM
Looks like this one's a winner DEVILBIT. Much better than that evil bomb jumping off the rock. Congratulations! =)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:09:15 PM
True the vertical alignment doesn't need to be off by much to triger this as it adds that extra momentum *but* the more you can pull the few extra inches you can get out of it...but yeah you time it right and LOL she really bounces.

BTW Devilbit this whole thing should go to you with the offset stuff because my thought on trying to get up there using momentum/offset bombs was based off the stuff you did post a good while back in regards, if I recall, to bombing your way up to the wave beam without using the space jump. At least I think thats what it was about..but anyway I did remember your posts and thats what made me think that was the variable we were missing in the SJ attempts.
---
Solr_Flare
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:11:33 PM
Glad that the trick if of your liking Mr. Amasawa, altough im still in love with the early plasma trick.

But anyway with practice probably this will be a everyday thing.
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:13:37 PM
Hmm...I've now got 3 E tanks, and 65 missiles before flaahgra...not sure what else I can get...=\
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:16:18 PM
My bad, 70 missiles :)
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: keybladeswordsman | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:28:57 PM
Since when did you guys started dbjm off the back of the ship?

I thought I was the only one.(murmurs about posting dbjm from the back of the ship and people ignored it)
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:30:16 PM
Kip, havn't you made it as far as the Monitor Station without varia and without space boots? Basically running out of energy right around the crates right? Well if you can nab that space jump early could that give you the few extra seconds you'd need to make the run without varia? As you said all the elevators are cool rooms meaning you are only about 20 seconds from a cool room where you are dying without space jump. *If* thsoe crates gave you a tiny bit of energy instead of missles and *if* the SJ could shave off just a few seconds it might be possible. Still highly unlikely but maybe possible.

Because as it is with the Sun Tower appearing to be unrefreshable without hitting bottom as it is...our only hope of potentially breaking some new ground is somehow pulling that Phendrana run...otherwise we are are pretty much stuck percentage wise..although some more sequence breaking options may show up letting us cut some more time from speed runs.
---
Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:33:12 PM
Keyblade: about 3 or 4 hours ago tops LOL At least since we tried and made it successfully...it was tried before in the past but no ne could pull it then Devilbit and Banks both managed to make the jump from the rock ledge instead so we just gave off any new serious attempts at the ship.
---
Solr_Flare
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:41:36 PM
Wtf, I made the jump from the rock ledge before Banks did...-_-; oh well, just ignore me then =p
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: keybladeswordsman | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:44:14 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I made it!
(gets up and does a little dance) Now, when I have the time, I will try to reach Phendrana.

( anybody who made it to phendrana w/o varia suit, please tell me what happens)

PS: Do I get credit?
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:44:48 PM
My Bad Funkytoad...I'm going on distant memory here..thanks for the reminder...LOL there has been so much stuff since then I can't even remember who was fully responsible for what...thats what Zell's page is for though heh. There's probably been enough posts in the 4 versions of this thread to consume most small message boards LOL...at least 1500 posts so far.
---
Solr_Flare
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:46:25 PM
Nothing compared to the HRC topic at the ssbm board, which is past 17000 posts ^_~ I started 2 of those so yay for me, master topic starter, lol.
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:48:54 PM
Keyblades: if you can make it to Phendrana then you'll be the first without Varia...well unless you somehow freeze into a magical block of ice and slowly die over the course of 15 minutes or so then that guy with the friend who worked at EB would be the first and I guess somehow redeemed from what appears to be a bunch of BS.

But as it stands, no one in here has been able to accomplish or confirm a non-varia phendrana run.
---
Solr_Flare
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:52:14 PM
Amasawa: Just saw your little bit about asking me for pointers on the TBJM in the Geothermal Core, and I wanted to quickly point out that I made it up there only once, and I think it was some fluke that I did o_O
The remainder of my attempts were spent getting hit in mid-air by the nearby Puddle Spore =P

Something else to try that I think could be done. First off, is Shore Tunnel a cool room? If so, then this just might work.

Get all three available Energy Tanks, then return to Tallon Overworld and head for the Root Cave. Take that transport to Magmoor Caverns, thus making it only five rooms that you have to traverse before reaching the Transport to Phendrana. The reason I ask about Shore Tunnel is that there are crates on either end, so if you can keep resetting them, you can refill your energy before making the dash through Monitor Station. I think it just might be able to work. Once I reset another file, I think I'll give it a shot.

-Tim
---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:55:01 PM
Shore Tunnel is NOT cool :( Infact, it's uncool, just like the rest of those damn rooms. I couldn't make it anywhere near the monitor station, even with space jump and 3 e tanks :( Then again, I only tried twice, and both times got stuck in the lava by accident ^_~
---
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:57:50 PM
Aw hell then. Unless something extraordinary happens, we may have to abandon this facet of it then.

I'm not quite sure I understand this bomb ladder deal. Are you guys just DBJMing off the turbine on the ship or executing some new trick that I can't get the hang of? Because I keep coming up short on my DBJMs.

-Tim
---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:59:05 PM
bummer Tim. that means this no space jump run is cut short here unless there's a way to make two jumps that I haven't been able to manage w/o it yet. guess I'll keep at it.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:59:11 PM
shore tunnel isn't cool... so the only hope of this is getting small energy from every crate and never missiles, and maybe it being possible to L lock space jump from the first set of crates to the second set in the second room, so that you never have to take more damage from the lava.

then you'd need a bulletproof strat for monitor station. i know a few places you can space jump to save time, but you'd still have to be a pro at taking out those turrets and puffers and refilling your health to the point where you enter the 2D room with about a tank left (assuming your energy drain rate is the same there and not faster).

i'm unable to get space jump still, but you know i'll test it out some more if i do. i just need to get to monitor station with a decent amount of energy, then see what can be done and how it'd be done.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 10:07:50 PM
Basically what you do is set up your DBJ on the ship as close as possible to the ledge. Then what you do is this:

1) Lay your first bomb as usual:

*
==========

2) Roll back a bit so that you then lay bomb two just slightly off center behind you then return to the center of the normal bomb:

**
==========

3) when you pop in the air, lay the air bomb as usual so it now looks like this:

*
*
===========

4) When you land quickly roll back then roll forward into the bomb on the ground as it goes off so it propells you forward into the bomb in the air then do the morph thingy as usual. Basically what this does is give you some extra forward momentum.

Note there are other ways you can do this like moving forward slightly when the first bomb goes off so that you place the air bomb forward of the 2 normally placed bombs. The more distance you get the furhter you can go but you really only need the vertical alignment to be slightly off so you can add momentum when you jump. If oyu do it right Samus *pops* through the air would be the best way to describe it :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/5/2003 10:08:51 PM
Wow. I finally update the site and you come up with a new technique to get Space Jump before Flaahgra! Meh... is it a simple dbjm off the left turbine of the ship, while aiming a little to the left at a part sticking out?

http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid

maybe I forgot things, just tell me
---
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 10:10:18 PM
err that number three ASCII pic should like like this instead stupid chat code cutting spaces :)

*
.*
===============

ignore the period.

---
Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 10:14:36 PM
I'll take a run(literally) at the no varia magmoor run as well. I think what I'm going to do is set up a game with Varia and one without.

What I'm going to do is get a stop watch and time how long I can survive without Varia down there then try to make it through Magmoor under that time with my Varia suit on. That way I won't keep dying over and over again. :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/5/2003 10:34:35 PM
I finally did it (getting Space Jump early). I tried it using an existing file and successfully DBJM'd up there. Now please tell me that having all the extra upgrades (Space Jump and whatnot) has no effect on your Bomb Jumping ability. If it does, then I'm screwed, since I had to fight with the Control Stick to actually roll up on the ledge.

I think if I ran fast enough, and Space Jumped to the bridge in Monitor Station, and used the Ball to roll along straightaways (it goes a bit faster than runnning, I think), it might, just might be possible. Then we'll get to see if the "freezing" actually takes place.

-Tim
---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
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From: Videogaming | Posted: 2/5/2003 10:58:23 PM
I dont have access to MP right now, but Ill try SJ>flaahgra on the weekend. Thanks to everybody, and solrflare that ascii really helped me understand.

Anyway, I fail to see the point of a run thru Magmoor w/o Varia...

1) You have to go to Sunchamber anyway, at least for the artifact there.
2) It's probably (definitely?) impossible.
3) You can't cut % from it even if not for the artifact, cuz theres no way you'd make it with 0 E tanks.

So are you guys just doing it for fun?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:01:44 PM
Killing Flaahgra last sounds fun to me =p
---
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:06:12 PM
Point of the run through magmoor? Simple, if you can do it, while it won't let you beat the low percentage runs, not only would fighting Flaahgra last be fun but also it might open up some interesting possibilities for speed runs that could shave even more time off. Besides I think we all want to ahve a go at Flaahgra with the Plasma beam and/or flamethrower just to see if he'll burn :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:08:13 PM
That and who knows what sort of weirdness you might get with Gravity and or Phazon suits without the Varia equiped since those two are really color changes...LOL it just opens up some interesting possibilities but yeah, without progress on the suntower we are pretty much now stuck at 27%
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:11:05 PM
zell, thanks for cleaning up my explanations so they make more sense/are presentable, i really appreciate it.

videogaming: i'm just doing it for fun personally. i'm kind of out of discovery ideas right now, so i don't know what else to do at this point except see if i can manage to get to phendrana (something that kind of seems more possible to me than solving the sun tower at the moment).

but yeah, i'd much rather be finding a way to lower the % or finding some major time saving trick, it's just that i don't know what else i can do right now. all the items left seem required in many places except for spider ball/charge beam/super missile; all of those are tied to the stupid sun tower which is one situation nobody seems to know the solution for.
From: sevensc | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:12:56 PM
::::::::::::::::::::: THE BOMB LADDER :::::::::::::::::::::
DO THE BELOW AND GET EARLY SPACE JUMP

S :samus
+ :samus and bomb
B :bomb
G :gunship
_ :nothing

__
S_ :step 1: samus gets on the edge of the gunship
GG

__
+_ :step 2: samus sets 1st bomb
GG

__
B+ :step 3: samus sets 2nd bomb
GG

__
+B :step 4: samus move back to 1st bomb in order to be
GG propelled up to set the 3rd bomb

+_
_B :step 5: samus sets the 3rd bomb
GG

B_
SB :step 6: samus lands after setting 3rd bomb
GG

B_
_+ :step 7: samus returns to 2nd bomb location
GG

+_
__ :step 8: samus is launched diagonally to the 3rd bomb
GG

__
__ :step 9: samus is shot towards the ledge and morphs out
GG to get on ledge and obtain early space jump

DO THE ABOVE AND GET EARLY SPACE JUMP
From: Videogaming | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:20:17 PM
One Q- When do you morph out of the dbj? And would it be easier/possible to do a tbjm instead?

BTW, I think a more profitable project would simply be trying to get thru the game as far as possible in a low % run without charge beam (in anticipation of solving the sun tower). I would be willing to pay serious money to anyone legitimately beating OP without it. It might be theoretically possible, but is it humanly possible?

I would try, but my skill in MP wouldn't even come close to completing that. One of you might be able to try though.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:22:42 PM
I just got Space Jump > Flaahgra with my 100%. I have it on tape and I'll try to get it on the site tomorrow.. with the other videos. sorry if it takes some time =/

oh and as it was said, the "ladder" jump is not required... if you just push forward as bomb 2 propels you, you'll get as much horizontal distance (you have to place bomb 3 a little below the peak) and a little more height imo..

kip- no problem for re-writing your posts. thank you for finding the techniques ;) I just am trying to do every tricks to understand how they are done and give as more details as possible =)
---
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:24:05 PM
Shame it wouldn't be possible to skip Varia entirely. Has to be gotten to trigger the Sunchamber ghosts and artifact even if one could get all the Magmoor items without it somehow.

Well even though my ideas aren't golden, they just keep popping up in my head so I'll say 'em to just put doubts in all your minds and drive you mad.

We sure it's the powerbomb... launcher (?) that triggers elite Pirate for that Artifact of Warrior? I mean it's the GETTING of it that makes it possible to wake him and not simply, going in a certain room maybe?

Getting the Powerbomb expansion that can be used to skip the Frigate and Gravity suit, and then going through Phazon mines LIKE you were going to get the powerbomb main thing, defeating the cloaked drone, but NOT getting the main Powerbomb upgrade, going into the nearby save station and such, maybe that's all that's needed to make the Phazon Elite triggerable.

When you all tried to wake him with just a powerbomb expansion, had you beaten the Cloaked drone and gone through that area at the "start" of the mines?

Probably a dead-end, but another idea. At least it would let you skip gravity suit cleanly

---
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Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:27:21 PM
OP without charge beam is definately possible just using uncharged Plasma its not fun though. I have never tried Ridley without charge though and I wonder if its even possible because don't you need a fully charged beam or missle to pop him in the mouth when on the ground?

Hardest part though would be doing a low percent run and getting through the stinkin mines without a charge beam...even on normal difficulty you need a darn near perfect run as has been mentioned before. I don't think anyone has really tried it all the way though as its still a moot point outside of saying you've done it since you still need the bugger.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:34:09 PM
I tried a lot of different variations with the power bomb, including destroying/not destroying the cloaked drone, trying to trigger the elite pirate two rooms before that (with no success), and using the expansion on the central dynamo instead of getting the main power bomb pickup to destroy it. Yeah, I did go through the "front way" after defeating Omega, and even back into the central dynamo again, but didn't have any luck. I don't think that save point's accessible; it's locked until you pick up the main power bomb IIRC.

I'm pretty sure that I covered all the bases, but it's been a while since I messed with this so it's hard to remember exactly which options I covered, and I could have missed something in the first place so I do encourage other people to try it and see if they have better luck. It would be great to be able to skip it altogether.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:34:42 PM
i know i could beat him without it on hard, i'm probably not the only one either. i'd have to revise my strategy though (the whole "fully charged shot then 8 normal shots" thing).

can't say it'd be easy though, with ice troopers no longer being freezable, and so on. but all the other bosses wouldn't really be any harder for me except ridley, since nowadays i just use charged plasma shots to stop his charge attempts when he's almost dead. since it's still possible to dodge all his faster charges though (trebor did it), he'd still be possible to beat, it'd just be about whether you're capable of dodging the charges or not.

heh, all i hope is that uncharged plasma shots don't kill omega pirate so slowly that you end up having to wait for the 5th time he goes invisible instead of 4th as it is now on low % hard... hard enough to survive 4 waves, but 5, ugh.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:39:11 PM
I think Amasawa and I both experimented with almost every way possible we could imagine. I even went so far as to use my one Power Bomb to get into Quarantine A (w/o getting the main one) to see if it would work. But to no avail, I was unable to break the Phazon Elite's tank until I had the main upgrade.

-Tim
---
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:43:46 PM
Curses. I don't suppose there's any point to thinking about skipping a beam, aargh. Everything's necessary unless we can get up suntower without opening the grate or something. That's not likely though. aaaaaaargh.

Well the only notion I have is to try getting a missle expansion before the missle launcher somehow. Then maybe one could fight Flaahgra AND hive mecha last. For no good reason at all, since that doesn't lower percent either. Ah well.

Good luck getting to phendrana. I'll be sitting back and watching you all try until I manage to get space jump early myself. And as for now, South Park's on and then adult swim so after hours and hours of trying for that space jump I'm done experimenting today.

Heheh, hive mecha last. Flaahgra second to last, maybe we'll eventually kill all the bosses in reverse order, starting with Prime.

Well... maybe...

---
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Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:50:21 PM
hmm a missile expansion before the launcher... that one in the main plaza would probably be the only chance, if there's some way to do it with single jumps. if not, then you'd have to find a way to get space jump without using bomb jumps.

if you can do that, then it'd be easy to grab that expansion in main plaza. only problem then is encountering a situation similar to the phazon elite and power bomb... like if it didn't let you destroy missile door locks unless you had the launcher. =P
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:56:59 PM
Well..I don't see how we could go in complete reverse order as if we can manage to get through without the varia there is no way to skip Omega Pirate and go to Ridley by getting the artifact of the newborn because its hard enough with all the other suits equiped..without the extra damage protection of Varia and Gravity it would be nigh impossible.

Could we run through without Varia though and figure out how to get past the *other* trouble spot for the spider ball we could do Omega, Thardus, Flaahgra, Ridley, Prime :)

Of course if we could find a way to get up the suntower and past Quarantine without the spider ball then conceivably we could just skip Thardus all together LOL

I'd be curious to see what if any potential on a speed run skipping flaahgra for last would have since you have to go back there at some point for the artifact anyway, just skipping past him the first go around could shave off at least a couple of minutes as you could just deal with him *and* the artifact at the same time.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/5/2003 11:59:46 PM
You might beat him quicker with the plasma beam and such for one. That'd be a couple minutes I'm sure

Also maybe getting the ice beam before flaahgra and triggering the ghosts to be all over chozo ruins will make it easier for ghosts to appear in sunchamber somehow, although I again highly doubt it.

---
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Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/6/2003 12:37:54 AM
Nah, skipping Beams wouldn't work (unless someone wants to be incredibly bold and actually cut the Charge Beam out should we ever find a way to make it up Sun Tower without requiring the Super Missile =P), since at some point in the game, you have to use all four of your Beams to open various doors =P

-Tim
(though if someone does manage to get up the Sun Tower someday w/o the Super Missile, and someone then wants to be super bold, there's a 25% run right there ;P )
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 4:33:14 AM
can't make the jump still, i tried for a long time. maybe i'll wait for a video of it or something, if there is going to be one. =P

at any rate i have no more ideas for discoveries...
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:33:30 AM
If it wasn't for the artifacts giving percentage points, the current low percent record would equal Super Metroid's 15% run. Though, Metroid Fusion can be beaten with 1%...
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:18:30 AM
That's cause Fusion has a screwed up system of only counting percentage points for Missile/Power Bomb Expansions and Energy Tanks =p

SM's was 15? I never knew that, I thought it was 22% (at least, that's the best I ever got.)

-Tim
---
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:28:33 AM
Wow, I also finally got into the "secret world", and what did I do? Promptly went into Morph Ball mode to try and Boost around. As you might expect, I did not get far =p

-Tim
---
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From: downsideup16 | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:32:35 AM
I am sort of new at skiping items but is it possible to skip the x-ray visor
---
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:35:13 AM
No. If you don't get the X-Ray Visor, you won't be able to register any damage on Omega Pirate, let alone Metroid Prime.

The only things we can skip so far are Thermal Visor, Grappling Beam, Gravity Suit, and tons of minor upgrades (Missiles/PB's/E Tanks).

-Tim
---
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:29:55 AM
LOL...yeah morphing in the "secret world" is generally not a good idea >_<
---
Solr_Flare
From: UndeadForte | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:42:27 AM
I'd jsut like to mention one thing... even if one could climb up to the Sunchamber artifact without the super missle, skiping the Charge Beam is still impossible, why?

Because, you can't beat Meta-Ridley without it,only a charged shot and missles have any effect on the grounded form( I'm talking about shooting his mouth here so you can shoot his chest) unless you got really lucky, kept all the "artifact pillars" in one peice and never let Ridley charge at one untill you needed a missle refill, but the possibilties of this happening, and being able to shoot Ridley enough times before you've run out of possible "Missle Refills"(Because Ridley will take out about 8-10 pillars during phase 1) is nigh impossible, ESPECIALLY in Hard mose.

So essentially, the lowest you can get is 26%(14% in terms of actuall "Powerups", not counting the artifacts).

That is all.
From: UndeadForte | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:43:47 AM
Err i mean Hard MODE not MOSE =P.
From: UndeadForte | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:46:29 AM
One last detail, the lowest is 26% if you can find a way up to the sunchamber aftrifact without super missles, just in case anyone was confused by the last sentence.
(Some insane bomb jumping would be needed to skip the Super Missles needed for the Sunchamber Tower ya know?)
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:12:24 AM
While on the ground, Ridley can be stunned with regular shots. I should know, I've done it many times.

---
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From: Grinto | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:25:52 AM
There's a 15% walkthrough on the Super Metroid FAQ list...
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:36:59 AM
"can't make the jump still, i tried for a long time. maybe i'll wait for a video of it or something, if there is going to be one. =P" -kip

if you're talking about the dbjm from the ship to get Space Jump, I have it on tape and probably will upload it tonight.
---
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From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/6/2003 2:55:58 PM
I would just like to confirm......The Boost Ball can propell you upward!

:D

I tried it in the Hydro Access Tunnel behind the Frigate Crash Site. Considering how far up a single bomb propells you in that area, it provided ample time to charge up enough boosting power to see what direction you'll go.

Of course, that was in water....but, I'm just saying that the games physics do allow the boost ball to launch you vertically.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/6/2003 3:01:46 PM
Hmmm, perhaps one might not worry about skipping the spiderball for time being and just worry about trying to get over the grate with some kind of triple bomb jump boost ball weirdness.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 3:25:03 PM
Just so that everyone is clear on this, the boost ball will propel you in whatever direction you want, as long as you're touching something. All it does it make you spin really fast, so if you are touching nothing, you'll go nowhere.
---
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From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/6/2003 4:19:19 PM
I don't know if this would work, but here's an idea:

Go to the sun tower use a bomb against a wall. Then use the boost ball to climb the wall. Before your boost ball runs out, place another bomb and gradually climb up the wall with bombs and the boost ball. I just thought of this, so I have no idea if it is even feasible.

---
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 4:22:38 PM
I'm 99% sure that if you try to boost up a wall, it will actually boost you down...
---
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/6/2003 4:23:10 PM
I just got spiderball and am at Suntower now. With spiderball boostball and bombs I'm determined to get up without breaking the runic gate.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:02:41 PM
Hmm, just so everyone knows, it IS possible to get the missile expansion in the chozo main plaza without the boost ball (I'm talking about the one that you usually use the half-pipe to get). I just space jumped to it, and morphed in =P
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:06:40 PM
hey you guys who tested damaging omega pirate without x-ray, did you try power bombs?
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:07:15 PM
funkytoad- I think they wanted to get that expansion before the Hive Mecha, to see if you could skip it... therefore no Space Jump would be available =/ But it's still cool to know you can get it before the Boost Ball, maybe it could be useful in a 100% game
---
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:11:04 PM
Hum... I just uploaded 11 new videos on the website, and in 10 minutes they will be up on the mirror site too. You can go check them out! They include:

- Ore Processing without Spider Ball (3 vids)
- Reflecting Pool without Boost Ball
- X-Ray without Spider Ball
- Phendrana's Edge without Grapple Beam (2 vids)
- Thardus under X-Ray Visor (2 vids)
- Furnace Track Jump
- Space Jump without Boost Ball (from the ship)
For a total of 11 videos =D

http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid

Hope you enjoy!
---
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:28:59 PM
Zell I love you. Your videos are always the most helpful thing for me.

I just got space jump thanks to your little video. I was trying for 4 hours yesterday with no luck, 10 minutes of doing it after watching your video and I nailed it. I'd just not been aiming left far enough before, and the bomb timing was ever so slightly off. Yahoo, thanks.

On to Phendrana because Suntower is UNSCALABLE. RAAAAR.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Turtle500 | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:31:21 PM
Wow, nice videos zell!

I'm gonna have to try some of those. It would be fun to fight Thardus with the plasma beam >:)

---
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:34:17 PM
youkai- no problem, thats why i made videos ;)

turtle- in fact fighting thardus with the plasma beam is very fun because he's a real joke. you can kill him without knowing it, my little sister would probably be able to kill him with 1 e-tank =P
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:37:01 PM
hey you guys who tested damaging omega pirate without x-ray, did you try power bombs?

hmmm, I know I've used 'em when he's still visible but I don't think I've tried 'em after he disappears...
---
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/6/2003 5:44:11 PM
Hmm that could prove to be an interesting experiment...who knows maybe its possible...I mean no one ever realized oyou can bomb Thardus silly while he's rolling around until recently :) That would be sweet if you could though because then we truly could skip the X-ray visor :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:08:48 PM
Well, I made some more progress towards getting a no boost ball game, in my efforts to get more missiles in my space jump before flaahgra file (I'm at 80 now ^_^).

In the ruined shrine, the room where you get the morph ball, and need the boost ball to get to a missile expansion, and the wave beam door that leads to life giver, I've gotten up without the boost ball.

K, first of all, get onto the halfpipe, and face the wave beam door. Now turn 90 degrees left, and face the wall of the half pipe. Walk forward as far as possible, and Lock your view. You're now going to jump once left, and once forward, where you can land on a small branch type thing, that's completely flat, and underneath the upper platform (scout it out before you make the jump, it's pretty easy to spot). Once you're on here, keep your view locked, and make one jump right, then jump back left, onto the platform. You can now get the missle expansion. Now to get to the wave beam door. If you look towards the middle of the room, you'll see a long branch in front of you. Face parallel to the direction of the branch, lock your view, and jump left twice to get onto it (first jump for distance, 2nd jump for aiming. Once you're on here, you can use a lockspring double jump to get to the wave beam door platform (or even slightly lower to the left of it there's a small spot to land as well). So yeah, if we can figure out life grove without boost ball, and geothermal core, this could be good ^_^
---
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:14:15 PM
Nice Job there Funkytoad....LOL out of nowhere no boost ball may end up somehow being possible..although based on our latest results with other stuff we'll probably end up with either

A) 1 room that no matter what we still need it for

or

B) Someone will pull it off once then we'll all blow our brains out for 3 to 4 weeks before someone out of nowhere comes up with an easy method

LOL
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:17:51 PM
geothermal core is a problem. you'd have to get inside of the socket where you place a morph ball bomb without using the spinners.

for what it's worth i've already tried it and i couldn't do it. a tbj from under the socket didn't get me in there, nothing seemed to work.

but, if you can find a workaround for geothermal core and getting the chozo artifact in life grove without using the spinner there, everything else could also probably be worked around.

also... isn't the super missile in some kind of case that doesn't open before you make the hologram appear in observatory? course that wouldn't matter if someone can grab onto the track above the blockage in sun tower.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:24:52 PM
no, the super missile is still sitting on the platform where you eventually find it and isn't blocked by anything, but until you activate the device with spinners the platform is very high up, for all practical purposes out of reach even from the highest platforms. If someone can find a way to reach it, it could still be snagged w/o using the boost ball though.
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:24:56 PM
Oy, I'm gonna have a quick and probably futile go at Phendrana Sans Varia. Anyone care to tell me what they know about it so far? Like major problems in certain rooms that eat up time and life and such?

P.S. Is Ice beam possible before Varia? I'm not going to kill myself tbjing up the furnace if something's going to stop me from getting it now anyway. If it is though I might as well take it to Magmoor encase it will come in handy for freezing torches or something

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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:27:47 PM
zell, thanks for the vids. I'm looking forward to checking out the space jump w/o boost ball one myself; I've only managed that jump twice. Soon as I get back to my comp w/DIVX on it I'll check it out. =)

btw, don't know if you visit the metroid database or not, but it looks like the site's getting attention from forum members there as well.
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:28:40 PM
Update btw on my attemtps at the magmoor run. Remember I'm testing this by using a game with the varia suit on and limiting myself to the amount of time Samus can survive in Magmoor without the varia by using a stopwatch. So this isn't completely accurate but I'm trying to get some good practice in. As is I can make it to the Monitor station but I run out of time there....I still think this may be do-able.

I might start experimenting with mixing in the morph ball more to see if I can stretch things out more too. If anyone has some good advice on space jump scale points in the monitor station I'd appreciate them as well...if this can be done its going to be dang close.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:28:53 PM
a wave beam door blocks the way to hall of elders, otherwise it'd be possible since you don't need boost ball for reflecting pool.
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:29:52 PM
I've been through the furnace in my SJ before flaahgra file, and you have two options there:stare at the ice beam door, or go through the other morph ball tunnel, and stare at the wave beam door.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:33:27 PM
i'll join you guys in magmoor without varia as soon as i make the jump.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 6:50:03 PM
Youkai Sesshoumaru- Do not tbj up the furnace...! Use the track jump! O_o unless you like to do things the hard way...
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From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/6/2003 7:06:58 PM
zell, is there any way that you can make the videos into mpg format? cuz i tried downloading the DivX player but when i try to play them it doesn't work.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 7:12:36 PM
chyse- i can't =/ maybe if you tried downloading Windows Media Player 7.1 (i think it's the latest) it would install the codec... because the required codec is DivX 5.0.2 i think
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/6/2003 7:15:15 PM
Jimminy christmas, I can't even make it TO the moniter station. I've gotten toward the end of the tunnel and that's it. How close has anyone come to the elevator? And I assume it was going from the Tallon overworld elevator, not the chozo ruins elevator
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 7:29:12 PM
Wheeness, just got the artifact of nature, in my space jump before flaahgra file ^_^. Mind you, it took me half an hour to get the route perfect, and the time I did survive, I had one health, but I DID IT!
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:00:39 PM
dang, still can't do it, gotten close though. well at least you don't see me saying it's impossible like 75%+ of the board would if they tried and couldn't do it. =]
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:01:40 PM
Kip have you tried my way? I just set the last 2 bombs really close together to get a lot of momentum going, and just ignore the damn ladder method ;p It worked for Banks.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:02:49 PM
like in zell's video? i don't think he does the bomb ladder stuff either.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:10:07 PM
kip- no, didnt use the ladder thingy... just place bomb 2-3 relatively close and push forward after bomb 2 propels you into bomb 3 to have maximum forward movement... and hope you do it
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:10:41 PM
Bomb ladder or catch some momemtum is basically the same thing.
By now everybody knows that there are plenty ways to do the same thing, you can try different angles, different bomb timing, etc. Just find what exactly is more confortable to you. For example Mr. Solar flare likes to of set the bombs and that works fine for him.
From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:22:10 PM
by some miracle i just did it. i forgot what i did even because i was in disbelief, lol. i think i moved forward and put the 3rd bomb out a little then rolled back toward the ship before i fell off so that i could be closer to the ledge when the 3rd bomb hit... i was playing with that idea last night and i kept getting so close with it.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:23:26 PM
congrats. =) I reacted similarly the first time I made that jump (and probably still will if I ever make it again)
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:24:06 PM
Very well done, glad you made the jump. So it worked with the so called ladder thingy after all.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:34:46 PM
when i did it i was in disbelief too... but i had it on tape and could watch it again to see what I did ;)
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:37:12 PM
isn't there an energy tank in dynamo? i need to find a way up there without that spider ball track.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:39:54 PM
no, just another expansion
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:40:30 PM
(you are talking about the room nearby the one w/the charge beam, aren't you?)
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:45:04 PM
yeah. =[
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:47:12 PM
Well if you ask me all the speed and damage-avoiding in the world cut it getting to Phendrana elevator. It's all going to lie in replenishing energy along the way. If it's possible to find a room along the way with crates or lots of enemies that you can refresh faster than your energy goes, you could make some sort of energy profit.

I've spent a little time looking for a place like that, the only reasonable thing I found was Moniter Station coming from Shore Tunnel.

If you open the door to moniter station, you can shoot the crates on the right of the door and draw the powerups in with your charge beam without even actually entering the room or letting the gun turrets rip you apart.

Run back a little ways through shore tunnel and Moniter station will refresh. If you're lucky getting power ups you might actually gain energy by repeating this.

Of course, I can't say for sure because I'm not using a stopwatch to time how long this process takes in my 100% game and I can't get that far without Varia to see if I lose more life than I gain doing this.

I've gotten close, gotten TO shore tunnel, just not with any life left. I could do it if I could avoid ALL extra damage I think but I can't manage it. I always fall in the lava in Firey Shores or get hit with a celing flamethrower or something.

But anyway, there's some hope maybe

I'll try it later myself, but for now I'm off to get some McRibs. MMMM-boy.

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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:51:41 PM
the refresh idea sounds good... if you can gain energy doing it then it'd be simple once you're filled up again.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:55:54 PM
I'll try doing the same thing with space jump now =o
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:56:00 PM
That's a very good idea, Youkai Sesshoumaru. I don't know how realistic it is depending on how often/how quickly you can get that energy, but that's a really, really good idea. =)
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 8:58:13 PM
I don't think it's even NEARLY fast enough...based on my run to get the artifact of nature, even the first room on that route drains your health reasonably fast, faster than you could refresh that room, for sure...nevermind if the rooms get hotter, like the room with the artifact of nature in it, where you lose 100 health in a few seconds >_<

Btw, does no one care about my having that in a SJ before flaahgra run? :O:O n00bz. Btw, I've now got 25%, without having touched flaahgra :)
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:01:25 PM
the root cave path drains your health slower than the chozo ruins one... not sure why though.

IIRC that one guy who had that friend said the 2D room is hotter than the rest, so i don't know what you'd do there. anyone know if monitor station gets hotter?
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:02:50 PM
Rofl, why are we still trusting that phony information to be correct? o_O; If anything, the 2d room should be COLDER, simply because it's closer to phendrana, further from the core of magmoor, etc.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:08:14 PM
i remember he said he got ultra energy from crates on that path too... if only i could have some =[
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:15:04 PM
kip- that guy also said he was lying
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:25:08 PM
really? i didn't know he actually admitted it.
From: Icesorcofdeath | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:33:04 PM
Some things that are impossible to finish game with

SpiderBall
Possibly Varia

Dont you have to use Boost ball in the poison gas room in Phazon mines

Spiderball puzzle in Phazon mines and along wall right before metroid prime
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:37:33 PM
Dont you have to use Boost ball in the poison gas room in Phazon mines

No, you can just fall to the bottom and walk through it. The boost ball's still needed for at least a couple of things though.

Spiderball puzzle in Phazon mines and along wall right before metroid prime

kip's already found ways to get around the spider ball puzzle on EVERY floor. The one before metroid prime is just there for show; you can space jump across and hardly touch the phazon at all.

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From: Icesorcofdeath | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:39:04 PM
I wish i could see Zell's videos, i get site not found for them
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From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:40:52 PM
Well first of all, I'VE beaten the game with Varia Suit and Spider Ball. I'm amazing! XD

You don't need the Boost Ball for that room you mentioned (what was it called again? The Ventilation Shaft or something to that effect?), there's no reason you would, it's just a normal hallway to the door... to go back through you would, but if you get the items in the right order, you wouldn't need to go back through that way, I think. (There's probably a way anyway, possibly TBJ'ing.)

Ore Processing has been gotten around with clever Space Jumping, and I'm pretty sure you simply didn't need the Spider Ball for the Impact Crater anyway. I know what room you're talking about, but I think just simple jumping solves the problem.
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:41:44 PM
Not sure if this would work or not, as I'm too lazy to go check, but for Spinners, when you roll into one, it activates it a tiny bit...could you not just continue to spin while inside of it, and start it up, slowly but surely?
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:42:06 PM
yeah the site is currently down... probably too much visitors at the same time...=/
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From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:45:12 PM
funkytoad- I'm pretty positive that most spinners need to be started up quickly. With, say, the platforms in Geothermal Core, they start to fall back after a boost- you need to continually boost, or it'll just fall back down to were it began. You might be able to activate some spinners this way though, not sure.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:50:08 PM
i have another probablywrongbutiwannatryitanyway theory about reloading the rooms after flaahgra, now that i have space jump.

there's a rock platform near the top of sun tower you can land on. i wanted to try landing on this rock then going back to sun tower access and sunchamber to see if that would be enough to make the ghosts appear. the problem is they're out of reach from the rock platform, even with space jump. i'm jumping against walls in my 100% file and i can't find any place you can land on in order to get back up... got any ideas guys?

i've tried space jumping on top of the last block and getting stuck against the last part of the spider ball track and doing a track jump up, but haven't been able to do it so far (even though it's straight).
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:51:51 PM
I tried the same thing as you. It's the rock platform that's straight forward if you just walk off the edge right? I don't think you can get back up from there =\ I couldn't anyhow...
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 9:53:48 PM
yep that's the one.
From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:14:48 PM
played around with ventilation shaft for about 2 minutes, i wasn't able to get back up without boost ball, but hardly matters since you can leave through phazon processing center (without spider ball even).
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:45:38 PM
You might be able to activate some spinners this way though, not sure.

Yeah, I wonder if the one in the life grove to get the artifact would work that way? (w/o boost). I already tried it with the platforms in the geo core and there's just no way to raise 'em w/o it, but the one in life grove doesn't reset, I believe, so it might work there.

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From: devan123 | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:46:58 PM
Can I have a Recap of everything talked in this and the other 3 topics?
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:49:35 PM
There was a gas shortage, and a flock of seagulls...that's about it >_> <_<
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:51:01 PM
i suppose i might try out observatory and life grove without boost ball to see if i can do the respective things there... but unless someone finds a workaround for geothermal core all this won't matter too much. i already tried doing a tbj to get into the last socket but it didn't work.

so, just roll into the spinner and see if it moves any, that's how it'd be tested? and what is the workaround for ruined courtyard? just avoid it by going through twin fires instead?
From: devan123 | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:52:01 PM
There was a gas shortage, and a flock of seagulls...that's about it >_> <_<

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XD

I mean seriously, though. I need a recap.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:53:39 PM
er, which room is ruined courtyard again? <=) You can get as far as the observatory by using bomb jumping, and activate the switches, but those spinners reset when not being used so I don't know if you'll have much luck with 'em. You can reach the top platform by going around through twin fires so you can see how high up the super missile is before that platform's lowered.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:54:38 PM
devan, you can't reach either of the sites either?

*checks

Wonder what's going on?
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:56:47 PM
nm, I remember which room it is now; I forgot about those spinner switches. But yeah, in that case you could go around through twin fires.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:57:34 PM
ruined courtyard is after ice ruins west... the place with 2 spinners you use to raise the water so you can get up and access thardus/the save point/the pirate base.

if those spinners in observatory reset, how are you supposed to get the super missile then? i know it doesn't matter if the sun tower is figured out, but that isn't looking good at the moment. =[
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:57:45 PM
I can't either, and this really bugs me because I just learned of the 11 new videos...

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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:58:32 PM
I agree with you; no boost ball is still a long way off.
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/6/2003 10:59:12 PM
I don't see why you just can't enter the back of the observatory (from going through twin fires) so that you start at the top, and can just jump to the super missile.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:04:02 PM
because the platform that the super missile is on doesn't lower until you activate all four spinner switches. It's pretty high up there, too, if you go around and check; I can't see any way clear to ever reaching it.
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From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:04:19 PM
Concerning the site not working (doesn't work for me either), do you think it might be because eleven new videos were posted? If a bunch of people in this topic went and downloaded them, it could really wear away at the bandwidth fast.

That could be the reason. I dunno.
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:06:35 PM
I'm back and full. Mmmm. I'm watching Karate on ESPN2 and then Southpark and Adult swim so I'm probably done experimenting today but I'll still throw out ideas because I can.

To beat a dead horse, can you freeze pirates and maybe stand on them in the observatory?

---
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:08:11 PM
paratroopa, makes sense to me what you're suggesting. I have no idea what kind of bandwidth limitations zell is dealing with there, but yeah, I see what you mean.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:10:53 PM
also, there is another potential problem unless there's something i'm missing: if both super missile and boost ball aren't needed, then you can't go to thardus from the front, and you have to go through observatory... but you can't lower the super missile platform without boost ball, so how do you get further in the pirate base?

you could go through twin fires and forget about the observatory, but let's say it was low % hard... is it really possible to do that dbjm before you die? i've tried to find another way past that place that doesn't involve the lava but i can't so far, i can get really close to jumping under the spider ball track on the elevator's side though. maybe from there you could space jump on the track.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:12:11 PM
Well I'm taking a break from my test runs in magmoor...I think this weekend I'll switch back over to my without Varia file and see what I can do from there. Health is going to be important though....I had an interesting thought though regarding killing stuff to pick up health...I'm wondering if rapid firing my missles at groups of enemies inbetween vaccuum charging in all the powerups might not be a more efficient way of blowing stuff up...but that may also leave you with more missle powerups than health.

Refresh just might work though...some rapid fire missles at those monitor station cannons and crates might take em out fast enough to net you some powerups. This is going to be tough but with a little bit of luck and *just* the right sequence of killing stuff I still think this is possible. But gotta take a break now...head spinning LOL
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:13:01 PM
To beat a dead horse, can you freeze pirates and maybe stand on them in the observatory?

I think the problem with that one is that when you go around to the top of the observatory from twin fires, the closest space pirates to you are across the room on the platform near the save station, and don't move because the trigger's down below. You can shoot them to make 'em move, but I don't *think* they will jump all the way over to the platform you're standing on (not sure about that though). Anyway Samus usually slides off frozen enemies doesn't she? (you prolly know better than I do but were suggesting this anyway just in case, I'm guessing)
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From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:16:30 PM
either she slides off or you can land on them for a while but it doesn't give you your jumps back so you can't do anything anyway (from what i've seen it doesn't even let you jump until you move off).
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:17:22 PM
I had a thought earlier about possibly setting up an IRC channel, perhaps to better discuss tricks and stuff without having to wait for posts. Just thought I'd throw that out there for everyone to chew on.

What was this talk of using PBs on Omega Pirate? Assuming you're still going for 27%, that'd be risky having to depend on getting PB refills from the Troopers, don't you think? Not to mention raise the difficulty level a good 10 notches or so (assuming it would work remotely like Thardus...)

-Tim
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:17:37 PM
let's say it was low % hard... is it really possible to do that dbjm before you die?

yep, it's possible. I may not have mentioned it before (can't remember for sure) but I tried it the other day and was able to get through twin fires on Hard mode with just 99 energy (varia suit). It was a royal pain in the ass to get the timing down though and took me many tries before I finally got it.

It's not a difficult jump to make, but you've basically got one shot and that's it under those conditions. Plus, you have to carefully refill energy in the rooms afterwards to make sure you don't bite it on the way to the save point. =|. So yeah... it's not easy, but it's possible.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:19:13 PM
IRC I can deal with; no cranky computer to deal with that way; just need to find a decent server. Go for it. =)
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From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:20:41 PM
You would have four Power Bombs to work with if you do the No Grav 27% run. I think that's enough to kill him if you can hit him.
---
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"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:21:55 PM
tlj the idea is to see if its possible to nail OP without the x-ray using powerbombs while he is invisible. If that were successful, yes it would be hard as heck in fact probably impossible on hard, but it would let us skip the X-ray and notch it down to 26%
---
Solr_Flare
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:22:03 PM
Not to mention you could possibly get those from beam troopers =o
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:23:39 PM
Just to try it out, I went ahead and set up #MetroidPrime on the Espernet Random Server - it's where all the other IRC channels I use are hosted, and I hear it's very reliable.

-Tim
btw I'm using mIRC; I don't know if that affects it or not.
---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:24:05 PM
And IRC chats are teh 1337. :D

I actually thought about an IRC chatroom a long time ago (okay, not really, only a few days ago, but doesn't it seem like forever ago that Metroid Prime could seemingly only be beaten with 29%?), but I don't know anything about making IRC chatrooms, and it was really only a thought anyway :X

But still. Yeah, IRC chats are cool.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:26:01 PM
oh, nevermind then amasawa. =P still good to know that what i said wouldn't be a problem though.

"What was this talk of using PBs on Omega Pirate? Assuming you're still going for 27%, that'd be risky having to depend on getting PB refills from the Troopers, don't you think? Not to mention raise the difficulty level a good 10 notches or so (assuming it would work remotely like Thardus...)"

yes, it would be moving near "impossible" on the difficulty meter depending on how much damage it did, but i thought that's the whole point... if something isn't needed you have to skip it in low %, even though it's painful.

hmm, i want to test if it does damage, yet i don't want to go all the way to omega pirate... =] sigh
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:32:37 PM
You would have four Power Bombs to work with if you do the No Grav 27% run

I think you'd have 5 max if you did a No Grav run, since you have to grab the main pickup (4) and one expansion.

EsperNet sounds good to me. See you there.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:35:04 PM
Why dont you just get MSN or AIM... i prefer that.. anyways, i dont know why my site is so f***** up but...

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/zell/metroid/

im currently uploading the site there... i dont know if it will work, you try...
---
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid - http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:36:21 PM
Oh duh, the main pickup is four, I thought it was three all this time >_<

LOL... damn... I can't believe I thought it was three all this time...

Well then, that means you'd have FIVE to work with! That's more than four! So it's a good thing! :D

Anyway, how do you access EsperNet again? It's been far too long since I've used mIRC. I've been on that server before as well as many others, but I forgot how. >_<

So, like, what's the command for it, and what's EsperNet's... whatever you wanna call it, you know, like a web address :P
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: kip | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:36:26 PM
do you happen to have everything saved in a text file just in case?
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/6/2003 11:39:54 PM
Pretty simple really. If you have mIRC, go to the options, select RANDOM under "IRC Server", then in the next box, find "EsperNet: Random Server", then just type

/join #MetroidPrime

to get in ^_^

-Tim
---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/7/2003 5:27:52 AM
Just so y'all know, I had a thought about getting that first energy tank in the Frigate for 4, maybe with space jump there's a better chance of getting to it by pulling some weird wall-hopping like was done for the Light Tower Artifact.

I know there's an ice door blocking the way to the Frigate but the "boundary" of that room is just so freaking wierd and jagged I thought maybe I could clip my way through. Pull a secret-worlds go through the wall glitch. I haven't had any luck but if someone good with clipping wants to try a 4th e-tank in trying for Phendrana would be excellent.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/7/2003 5:53:13 AM
That doesn't seem very likely...
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/7/2003 6:00:46 AM
How much of the stuff on Zell's site did seem likely before it was actually done?

You're right though I'm not betting on it either. If we got good at wall-clipping well that'd pretty much take everything apart, now wouldn't it? Still, long as the thought was in my head no harm in mentioning it.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/7/2003 8:43:28 AM
Not only would you have to clip through the wall, you'd also have to clip back in...
You may just fall into the black void between rooms.
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/7/2003 9:55:38 AM
I guess it's worth a shot, y'know? Anything that could net us a fourth Energy Tank before Magmoor would be great in helping for the Varia-less run. Though I don't know how well a secret world attempt would work (I'm inclined to agree with Grinto); I do know that a normal world run not only prevents you from getting into the Frigate, but also you can't get past Reactor Core until you have Grav. Suit.

-Tim
---
mIRC channel: #MetroidPrime
Prime Discoveries: http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: darklich | Posted: 2/7/2003 10:09:10 AM
What codec do i need to watch these movies?
From: downsideup16 | Posted: 2/7/2003 12:15:09 PM
el bumpo
---
"When we withdraw from the home game console, that's when we withdraw from the video game business." Satoru Iwata, President of Nintendo
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/7/2003 2:47:36 PM
bump
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/7/2003 3:03:43 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned before or not, but in Ore Processing, there's a third way to switch sides (the first and second being using the red spider ball track and a l-lock spring jump).

Anyway, around the wall of the room, there's a plainly-visible ridge just under the grate looking stuff. Just jump against the wall to land on it. Much more reliable than the other methods....at least to me anyway.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/7/2003 3:07:22 PM
That's on the top level, by the way...

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/7/2003 3:45:10 PM
Trebor- thanks for the information. but space jumping from one side to the other is pretty easy
---
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From: Mariodood | Posted: 2/7/2003 3:54:30 PM
I some questions.

(1.) Is the Double Bomb Jump useful in any part of the game? It seems like anything I would use the Double Bomb Jump for I could do with a normal bomb jump.

(2.) While in the triple bomb jump, I run out of bombs by the Third Jump, and I end up doing a Double Bomb Jump instead. It goes like this.

*Place Bomb 1.*
*Place Bomb 2 RIGHT before Bomb 1 explodes.*
*Place Bomb 3 at my peak of jump*

Now, as you see, I'm out of bombs. And I end up doing a Dbj. HELP!

(3.) How do I get the Plasma Beam? I know I need the Grapple Hook, which I don't have nor do I want to get it, so could you tell me where it is and how to get it using Tricky Jumping/TBJ?

(4.) How and when do I get the Grapple Hook?
---
A dog says Bark! A chocobo says Wark!
:)
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/7/2003 3:55:57 PM
Why not go to zell's site, and figure it out for yourself ;p
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: Mariodood | Posted: 2/7/2003 3:57:58 PM
Zell's site only explains part of 3.
---
A dog says Bark! A chocobo says Wark!
:)
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/7/2003 3:58:23 PM
You get the Grapple Beam near the end of the game. Since it's your first time through, I suggest you don't try to use the tricks we found here. The DBJ is useful in places, the only one that comes to my mind right now is to get the E-Tank in Magmoor (between elevator to phendrana and monitor station)

If you want information about the TBJ and other tricks, visit my website:

http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
or
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid

it contains spoilers, obviously
---
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From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:04:32 PM
1) The only place i can currently think of is the Vault. The only way to get that Missile Expansion is with a dbj.

2) You're not doing it correctly. You have to do a single bomb jump first, then as soon as you land, then start doing the part you're trying to do. The first single bomb jump is to jumpstart the bomb recharging sequence. Check out zell's site, it explains exactly how to do this, and it works too.

3) Check zell's site.

4) Check the FAQs. The hint system, if enabled, should tell you when it's time to get it. Unless of course you screw up the hint system by getting things early, or you want to skip the Grapple Beam. Or, just check the FAQs.

If it's your first time through, then you should definately avoid trying any of the tricks in this topic. These require an excellent understanding of the game.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: Mariodood | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:05:16 PM
It is my first time, but I'm in the Phazon mines, so I've almost beaten it anyway.
---
A dog says Bark! A chocobo says Wark!
:)
From: Mariodood | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:06:08 PM
Thanks. Must..get..TBJ accomplished..
---
A dog says Bark! A chocobo says Wark!
:)
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:06:39 PM
kip: I know, but that was before I perfected my L-Lock space jumping skills.

I still would like to know about OP and Power Bombs though...

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:07:01 PM
yeah but still, you should complete the game as it's supposed first, then do a new game and break it into pieces =D
---
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:08:42 PM
D-O-H!! >_____<
I just beat OP in my video run, but completely forgot to try Powerbombs on him! ARG! sorry =(
---
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid - http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:12:32 PM
Did you save? :O
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:14:26 PM
yes i saved... at the landing site before ridley... *dies*
---
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid - http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:15:06 PM
It's ok. Funky's looking into it for me.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:15:08 PM
Just checked power bombs VS omega pirate. They do nothing if you aren't in X ray :(. However, if you are, it OWNS him! This is in normal btw. If you hit him with a fully charged plasma beam, then a power bomb, that's more than half his HP. Then we he reappears, get another power bomb off quick, and he's done. I have a feeling this could be a huge help in some speed runs...and low % runs as well =P
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:17:08 PM
wow funkytoad... you saved me =D and it will be really useful for speed if you can kill him with only 2 PBs O_o
---
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid - http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:18:18 PM
This would be completely useless, but does the Wavebuster damage OP while he's invisible?
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: Mariodood | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:31:22 PM
Questions & Progress of me

ALMOST did the TBJ. I can't do the 5th jump quick enough. I always end up doing it when I'm dropping to the floor instead of rising. Mleh. It's just one of those things that you have to try over and over again until it works.

And, I don't get L-Spring Jump Locking (Whatever the name is)..I read Zell's site, but I don't really get how to do it, and what the point of it is. Isn't it the same as doing a normal jump, or does it actually give you more distance or something?

I guess I can't use the TBJ much even if I learn it, because I have almost everything..except Missle Expansions.
---
A dog says Bark! A chocobo says Wark!
:)
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/7/2003 4:45:04 PM
It does indeed allow for extra distance.
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/7/2003 5:26:50 PM
Wavebuster's a thought, but since the whole point of skipping X-ray is for low percent anyways, you'd never have enough missles for it. Takes 10 just to activate.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/7/2003 5:31:55 PM
P.S. Someone come to the IRC channel. #MetroidPrime on EsperNet. Me and |2ag are bored out of our so-called minds.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: annoynweirdklown | Posted: 2/7/2003 5:38:51 PM
thought for going through magmoor w/o viara. isnt there a energy tank in transport tunnel A and whenever you get an enery tank youe energy gets replenished... only problem is where is transport tunnel A?
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2003 5:48:00 PM
it's after monitor station, which nobody has gotten close to passing. i think it'd be faster to just run to the elevator instead of getting that energy tank anyway (and then come back for it after you saved in phendrana). i could be wrong though.

only way i can see no varia being possible is if the energy drain rate cuts down drastically after you get out of shore tunnel. if it's the same or faster in monitor station and transport tunnel A, there's no chance i can personally do it with 3 tanks, but i'll blame it on myself instead of saying it's impossible.
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/7/2003 6:38:23 PM
About that Dynamo room in the Chozo Ruins (near the location of the Charge Beam): Has anyone tried to see if the Spider Ball Track "Clipping Bug" can work there?

Second, it IS possible to get to the energy tank in the Frigate without the Gravity Suit. I did it the other day when I was goofing around in there.

Question about the "Plasma Beam Before Thardus": I can do a majority of the stuff, up until that part where you need to jump onto those Spider Ball square thingies that have a light in the middle, and then I usually wind up missing the jump and falling all the way down.

Now, the problem appears to be that the first Spinner Platform can't be reached via the Space Jump method after you've used the spinner, as if the platform under it was about a foot shorter than the main one (the one that gets raised). I tried it about 5 times; it simply seems as though you can't get to it with a Space Jump.

So, I finally gave up and got the Spider Ball from Thardus, then got the plasma beam.
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2003 6:50:31 PM
"Now, the problem appears to be that the first Spinner Platform can't be reached via the Space Jump method after you've used the spinner"

it still can be, but it's harder than before the spinner's used; must be because the platform becomes shorter.
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2003 6:53:44 PM
tried the clipping bug in dynamo, it didn't work. but it doesn't matter since there isn't an energy tank there... it seems that the last energy tank in chozo ruins is in training chamber, and there is a thing blocking you from going in the back way.
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/7/2003 7:04:19 PM
ARGH!!!!!

I almost got up the Sun Tower without the super missiles!! I was so ****ing close!!! I've have been messing around with morph bombs for a while (almost an hour). I was trying to get past the "road block" on the spider track. At first I thought it was impossible, but I kept trying. I kept pushing A while randomly letting go of the track with R and reconnecting. After about an hour, I was ready to give up when a bomb finally hit me upwards instead of outwards. I got about 80% up the "road block". I was SO close to getting on the top part of the track. DAMN!!!!

---
<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2003 7:05:42 PM
really? cool... maybe there's hope for 25%, although it sounds like it'd be hard to do that sun tower thing from your post.
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/7/2003 7:10:33 PM
I'm sure there is someway to get up that tower. That ledge must serve some purpose. I don't know if using my way will ever get us up to the track. I don't even know if I can repeat it. Hopefully someone here does it successfully.

*goes back to animal crossing*
---
<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2003 7:15:12 PM
well, if you do get above the gate, there you go unless an oculus knocks you back down. =]
From: annoynweirdklown | Posted: 2/7/2003 7:42:28 PM
if you can find a way to do a double ball jumb upwards u should make it because you have a short range for that beamish thing to stich on to the track then u need to worry about those things....
---
Love the fisson metroids: See them, let them latch on, then say bye bye as you drop a power bomb.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/7/2003 9:16:19 PM
Ragnarok72- as kip said, it's possible to get back on the spinner platform after raising them.. use the L-Lock spring jump (my video was done with the platform raised)

Mariodood- the L-Lock spring jump gives you 1-2 feet of extra distance. To do it, L-Lock your view down (if you dont know how to L-Lock, refer to the site). now, while looking at the floor, run and jump as you would usually. when in the air, release the "L" button and your view will "spring" back to normal position (in front of you) so you won't see the floor anymore... this "spring" motion of the view gives you 1-2 extra feet. you can release "L" in your first or second jump, doesnt matter. hope this helps ;)
---
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid - http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/7/2003 9:39:29 PM
>Ragnarok72- as kip said, it's possible to get back on the spinner platform after raising them.. use the L-Lock spring jump (my video was done with the platform raised)

Yeah, in hindsight I figured you could probably use an L-Lock spring jump.

By the way, I think someone around here mentioned a "Dormant Thardus Glitch"? Is he talking about how Thardus doesn't activate immediately (giving you ample time to scan him) if you enter his chamber from the back door?
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/7/2003 10:05:43 PM
Uh, you use the DBJ to get an Energy Tank in Magmoor Caverns, near Phendrana Drifts.

-Tim
---
IRC channel: #MetroidPrime
Prime Discoveries: http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2003 10:12:08 PM
i don't know what that dormant thardus glitch or whatever is, but it's true you can scan him before the battle (and walk into his lifeless body and take damage) if you enter from the back. might be possible to scan him before the battle from the front way too, i haven't tried very hard.
From: burgerdog | Posted: 2/7/2003 10:14:30 PM
This is cool.
---
"Originally released for the Nintendo 64, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was honored as "Game of the Century" by Next Generation magazine."
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 2/7/2003 10:17:48 PM
Has anybody tried if PBs hurt Thardus before the fight starts? Then he would really be easy...
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/7/2003 10:18:36 PM
kip - from the front way, you can't scan Thardus. It shows up as "Out of scanning range" until as you're falling (after which the cinema starts, so...)

-Tim
---
mIRC channel: #MetroidPrime
Prime Discoveries: http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/7/2003 10:50:20 PM
Someone said that Power Bombs will damage Omega Pirate, but only with the X-Ray visor. How exactly do you use the X-ray in Morph Ball made? Or does it just have to be collected?
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2003 11:03:32 PM
i'm not the one who actually did this, but i'd guess either you have to have the visor, or you have to get out of morph ball mode and put it on before it hits him.

funkytoad, or whoever actually did it... there's a question for you though. =P
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/7/2003 11:11:33 PM
You have to quickly plant the power bomb, and get out of morph ball, into x ray mode. I'm still experimenting though, because for some reason, like half the time you use a power bomb, all it does it makes him recover his armor plates FASTER. I'm thoroughly confused, someone else feel free to try it out ;p
---
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From: Grinto | Posted: 2/7/2003 11:12:04 PM
I thought the power bomb explosion finished before you could select a visor... Maybe I'll test this out myself...
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: Mariodood | Posted: 2/8/2003 1:02:26 AM
Thanks. I'll try using that Spring thing some time..
---
A dog says Bark! A chocobo says Wark!
:)
From: Darkash | Posted: 2/8/2003 1:21:43 PM
Bump
From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/8/2003 2:16:37 PM
mariodood, i know the DBJ is moderately useful in Ore Processing or whatever that room is where there is the rotating spider column. if you have the spider ball and you don't want to jump off from a high level, you can get into morph ball mode under the track drop off thing, hold R, and do a DBJ and it will get you high enough to grasp the track. but i normally just jump anyway, cuz it's quicker.
---
"Next time you think nobody cares, try missing a couple payments..." - Dr. P
From: Mariodood | Posted: 2/8/2003 2:44:54 PM
BUMP
---
A dog says Bark! A chocobo says Wark!
:)
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/8/2003 5:23:32 PM
Bump?

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: LinkHero | Posted: 2/8/2003 6:23:06 PM
This topic is going to be here forever.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 6:41:31 PM
It's dying. It's DYING.

I say boost ball and spiderball are necessary. I'm focusing ALL my efforts from this point forward to getting into the Sunchamber without super missle.

I'm going to try to duplicate who's-it that said he bombed a bit up the runic gate.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 6:48:54 PM
And now that I know powerbombs can kick OP's ass I can do a hard mode low percent run.

OP was the only thing that gave me severe headaches doing it on normal. Hard should be easy without OP to worry about

Hooray.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 6:55:45 PM
Hmmm, I too managed to get a bomb to push me UP.

Using spiderball, from right UNDER the gate, I let go so I dropped straight down for a second and set a bomb in mid-air, then I re-attatched to the track and moved back up, then fell down ONTO the bomb I had set in mid-air and it shot me UP

Unfortunately, I keep hitting the bottom of the gate and am bounced back down.

If I can set the bomb in mid-air farther OUT from the track, perhaps by using a bomb to propel me out, then I might make it

the problem is the bombs explode to fast to climb up that spiderball track and do this silliness and still make it up there before it explodes

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: The 3 Percent Rarity | Posted: 2/8/2003 6:58:47 PM
Although it's from way back on page 7...

You need to double bomb jump to accuire 2 energy tanks in the game (One in Magmoor Transport Tunnel A, the other in a water maze (sorry I forget name).) Not to mention the missle in the Chozo Vault.
---
"If you fail to answer all of the questions correctly, you will be referred to as "BumBumDoodleDum the 00ber n00b" and will be treated accordingly."
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 7:14:58 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 7:38:29 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAH, I went higher than the bottom of the grate!

I DID I DID

I got about as high as the two bottom runic symbols

Here's how I did it

I can't remember my exact position when I did it because I was doing this casually

But I did a sideways 90 degree double bomb jump

like this

__| <- runic gate
||||C
///AB
/

Bomb one at point A, let go and place bomb 2 at the same time right before it explodes, propel to point B, place bomb 3, grip onto the track again at point A, slightly above point A actually, it propells yu DIAGONALLY so you end up ABOVE the bomb at point B and you are bombed UPWARDS

It was far enough out so I made it UP THE GRATE as high as the bottom runic symbols

YEEHAW, sideways 90 degree double bomb jump. I want that one named after me if it turns out to be the key to getting up the grate :P

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 7:45:34 PM
wow that sounds really painful to do, i think i'll try it out in a bit although i lack the mad skill required, i had enough trouble with space jump before flaahgra as it is.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 7:52:28 PM
Yay, kip's here to help me. Get on the dang IRC channel, no one's there and I want to discuss this!

It's not painful to do the sideways 90 degree double bomb jump. It just sounds painful. I'm getting tired of saying that, SNDDBJ. The only hard part is getting your starting position and the placement of the bombs correct.

Just do a double bomb jump that propels you sideways instead of forward so bomb 3 is to the side of you instead of above you.

Then maneuver so you end up on TOP of that bomb.

You know the post with the thing I could see in my head? Forget that. It's confusing. Here I'll delete it because it's useless.

BUT

I HAVE ANOTHER IDEA

AAH I'm still excited from getting as high as I did

If I can do that SNDDBJ again, but wasting a bomb first to start recharging for a TRIPLE bomb jump

bomb 2 3 and 4 Are placed like I describe, when I get to point 4 I place bomb 5 and at the peak of my jump I place bomb 6, so bomb 5 and bomb 6 at like a VERITCAL double bomb jump.

It's a triple bomb jump that makes a turn in the middle.

AAAAH. Someone help me try it! It might get high enough!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I'm excited I got higher than the bottom of the grate
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 8:10:40 PM
Yay I just did it three more times!

I'm gonna have to get really good at getting that high before I try any triple bomb jump craziness though

Basically what I did with the buttons was this:

Start holding R, as high on the spiderball track as you can go WITHOUT holding up on the control stick. Control stick at this point is neutral

Hit A for the first bomb

Before it explodes, You hit A and release R at the same time for the 2nd bomb

You hit A and hit R and hit Up on the control stick at the same time for the 3rd bomb

You again release R and hold up as the 2nd bomb hits you into the 3rd bomb

That's the best I can explain I'm afraid. I was beginning to think all that double bombing I did for an early space jump was useless, but it seems it was very good practice for this

Maybe Zell can get a video up of at least that much if he has a save file with spiderball but before opening that gate. Although it's not the same as getting all the way up the grate, I have a strong feeling that mastering this is the first step to it. Once I can do this reliably and with every attempt, only then will I try to build on it.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Samus aran x | Posted: 2/8/2003 8:11:19 PM
I DID IT
I DID IT
I DID IT
I DID IT
I DID IT
I DID IT
I DID IT
I DID IT
I DID IT(it goes on and on)
I GOT UP THE SPIDER BALL TRACK WITHOUT SPIDERBALL ON TALL ROOM TO GET TO THING AND GET TO ROOM WITH ARTIFACT IN IT WIT THAT SIDEWAYS 90 DEGREE TRIPLE BOMB JUMP THINGIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---
(what's good about a clock radio) well you can listen to it, and see exactly what time your listening to.. Im listeing to 11:00 P.M....lol
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 8:22:03 PM
I hope you're not making fun of me, because I bet it's more than you've accomplished. It's without super missle, not without spiderball.

... no one else is trying this are they?

Ah well. I'll come back after dinner to see if anyone's here.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:01:17 PM
hmm, having trouble getting started
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:16:39 PM
uh, well i set 2 bombs almost at the same time right under the gate, and the second bomb put me up, so i touched the bottom symbols... dunno if that can be called progress but whatever.

=]
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:20:59 PM
I'm back. I got half-way up the gate now with my thing :P

Incidentally, I just got to the bottom symbols with your way too, which is simpler.

Guess nothing is going to be named after me :( It is progress though, because your way leaves you with one bomb which maybe can be used to propel us higher still

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:26:49 PM
my way makes it impossible to do a tbj though, i think, since 2 bombs are set early almost at the same time.

so although it seems easier to get it to make you go up, we only 1 have more bomb to work with this way, and it has to get you high enough to grab onto the track above the gate.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:28:10 PM
You know... if you wasted a bomb, waited a second, and THEN used your two-at-once bomb thing, then the bombs should almost immediately refil, then you're up the gate with 3 to work with... better than the 2 to work with that a tbj leaves you

Oh the prospects. And to think I'd almost given up hope
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:31:56 PM
hmm good point, so now we have to figure out where the rest of the bombs should go.
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:45:44 PM
I REALLY want to try to help you guys out with that, but I don't have a file that's anywhere close to having the spider ball, but not having the artifact of wild :(
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:52:01 PM
My closest file is after getting the Wave Beam, but by the time I get around to it, someone will have resolved the problem.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:54:56 PM
just get space jump and ice beam (via track jump), then do a dbjm out of the lava in twin fires and fight thardus without the tedious trip through the pirate base, then go back to chozo ruins.

that's what i did anyway. =]
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 9:59:43 PM
ugh, i can never get a bomb to hit me on the way down so that i can get more height than the bottom symbols.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/8/2003 10:02:43 PM
I'm having that problem too. I'm not even bothering wasting a bomb, I'm just using the last bomb left over to see if I can get it to hit me.

I shan't give up though

Veni vidi vici!
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/8/2003 10:03:24 PM
Next time I play, I'll do that...

But who knows when that'll be. I have tons of assignments to make up.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: kip | Posted: 2/8/2003 10:21:08 PM
still can't. if it's not possible to be hit by a bomb on the way down, there's no chance for this probably.

guess we'll see how the others fare if they try it. =P
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/8/2003 11:00:50 PM
So, based on your method you guys are popping up there but when you place a bomb up there to shoot you higher you'r falling past it before it can propell you upwards correct?

Well then what you need to do is use the tbj bomb refill technique. I'm not there on my saves to try it out so I can't try this out myself till tomorrow...but try this

Burn a bomb like you suggested Sess...then as soon as you guys get propelled upwards...that very instant place a bomb, then, with the refill action, place one at the height of your bomb jump...so that way you fall back down, get shot back up to the bottom of the symbols.

If timed right, you should hit the last bomb as it goes off...effectively 90 degree TBJ up over the runic gate.
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:05:44 AM
heh heh, i made it on top of the structure with the energy tank in that room where it tells you you can't go any further without the grav suit.

i doubt it's possible to get to the top though since the jumps only get worse from here, but i'll try.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:06:09 AM
OK guys...Sess asked me to update everyone on this...we've been working on it in chat...he is almost there..he just needs the timing to be perfect. Here is what you do

1) Attatch to the rail

2) Hold down to stretch below the rail(ie fight it) then place a bomb and start moving up at the exact same time. This burns the bomb you'll need to take care of.

3) Using this timing you head up to the top and immediately place bombs 1 and 2 using Kip's method. You'll start refilling imediately.

4) Right as you go to get shot up in the air plant bomb 3.

5) Near the peak of your jump place bomb 4

6) You should now fall down and hit bomb 3 propelling you actually slightly higher than bomb 2 did.

7) Then bomb 4 goes off and propells you up. The timing on bomb 4 needs to be just right though and Sess is trying to master it right now. But once its nailed down, bomb 4 should clear the gate.

We are just about there...we just need to nail the timing for one single bomb and we should be clear!
---
Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:10:40 AM
correction on the above...he's working on a 5th bomb placement to try make it the whole way..thats what he's working on now. Essentially setting up a tbj...anyone who wants to help it would be appreciated. Bomb 4 gets him slightly above halfway.

also one additional note...if you hold down R you get a consistant height from the blasts from bombs 1 and 2.
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:14:30 AM
almost to the top... one or two more tricky platforms and you can go through the frigate without the gravity suit, without skipping it and getting a power bomb expansion. i found a way to get to that one with the second conduit in the room.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:19:30 AM
Heck Kip...you pull this and at this rate Sess is about to pull the suntower..we may hit 24% being possible by dawn :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:27:32 AM
ok, i'm at the part where the pirate appears. 1 or 2 ledges and i'm at the top, i'll check out the rest of the frigate if i get up there to make sure you can get through the rest of the rooms without gravity also.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:03:57 AM
bah, i was at the jump to the last platform (which i'm still trying to find a way to get to), then i fell down to the middle and forgot how i got up this one part.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:11:18 AM
ah there we go. now just need to find out how to get to the last platform.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:22:13 AM
i did it. checking out the rest of the frigate to see if it poses any problems without grav suit.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:26:41 AM
Man... so close... I've gotten 2/3 of the morph ball ABOVE the top of the runic gate, and I can reliably make those red leaves fall off those vine things I'm getting so high

Just a little timing tweaking...
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:27:33 AM
Hey Kip...you fully confirm this with the frigate, we could use some help with Sess's technique..he is literally almost there..he can get the morph ball 2/3s the way over the top of the rune gate but it won't latch on so he just needs a tiny bit of extra height.

A few extra people working on it would help :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:29:26 AM
i found a problem. in hydro access tunnel you get pushed up by the water and i don't know how to go down. i'm stuck where you get the energy tank. i could try again and try not to get pushed down but i don't know how that'd happen.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:37:21 AM
Hey Kip...could you possibly use morph ball bombs to force you down? Not sure if they can work that way as no one has ever really tried.
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:40:04 AM
doesn't seem to work. if i boost ball against the wall she goes down a little, but the water keeps pushing you up. still though, i didn't know it was going to happen, so maybe if you can avoid getting pushed to the energy tank, there's a way to make it to the end.

if not, that's just depressing. one room stopping everything yet again. ^_^
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:43:10 AM
Keep at it Kip...both you and Sess are just on the verge of breaking some major barriers here...there has just got to be a way to make it through there...heck no one thought anyone could make it as far as you have.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:43:43 AM
GRAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!@@HI*TJsia4yj34oija3o5ij45

Y'know, I was counting on this to happen so I could be one of the five people in the entire ****ing world to have credit to the 26% game. :(

AND IT HAD TO HAPPEN IN THE HYDRO ACCESS TUNNEL. ONE ROOM AWAY!!! AAAAAAGH!

RETRO PLANNED THIS! I KNOW IT!
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:49:26 AM
fortunately it's not hard to get there. there's a series of super ghetto jumps you can do to just barely make it to the next part (very hard), but later i found that if you push samus against the wall in morph ball mode, she sticks there. so once you get on top of the thing with the energy tank, all you have to do is bomb your way up and it's easy.

can also boost ball, but sometimes you'll go down. better to use morph ball bombs kind of.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:54:27 AM
man, i don't know what to do about this. there's only 1 part you have to go down, but water's there pushing you up to the energy tank. if there's a way past that then you can just let it push you up when you get to the end, since you want to go up to the exit.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:00:04 AM
ok, sometimes when you boost ball against the wall, she goes down. and if you press against the wall she stays there. but problem is next time you boost ball/use a bomb, she goes back up unless i'm doing something wrong.

so i don't know how to make her go down enough times that i can move past the part where water is pushing you up to the energy tank... ideas?
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:01:01 AM
If anyone out there has a before Flaahgra file and wants to help me out a bit, go beat Flaahgra and see if you can jump down the suntower and land ON the runic gate. Like on the top of it. So I know if I should focus on mixing in some morphing at the end of my bomb jumps for extra height. Because if you can't stand on it there's no point to my putting a lot of energy into that route.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:03:48 AM
interesting, i got her to go way down with 1 boost ball, but that was the only time i've ever seen that happen. and like i said i don't know how to make her keep moving down after the first boost ball against the wall.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:04:11 AM
Kip, so Samus goes back up if you boost again? What if you did a rapid series of short boost ball bursts...would that work you against the current in the long run?
---
Solr_Flare
From: SamusAranSR388 | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:05:28 AM
ive been trying but i cant get it.does anyone know how to triple jump?it is very hard and i cant do it.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:06:42 AM
i've tried that, she still goes up after the 1st one. if there is a way to make her keep going down, then you could avoid getting pushed up by the water.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:07:32 AM
Kip, I have a thought for you

Samus will BOOST in the direction she is FACING

at a standstill against the wall, your direction changes to up because you are being pushed that way

Boost down, before you go down all the way lay all 3 bombs so they are above you

When they explode, you should have SLIGHT movement downards, maybe. If so, if you had enough time to charge up your boost ball a little, your boost should go down some more, as long as you are MOVING DOWN when you boost

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:09:27 AM
On the same thought if you charge up a big boost then charge up and boost again before Samus comes to a stop that might do it too.
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:30:06 AM
i need to find out how to do that thing that makes her go way down consistently. 3 of those and you'd probably end up at where the water starts to push you to the tank. then 1 or 2 more and you could get past the water maybe.

i just still can't make her do 2 boosts down in a row.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:40:09 AM
youkai, i think you're right about the direction she boosts being dependant on the direction she's facing. the reason why it seems like she only goes down about 1 out of 4 boosts is because she suddenly faces down.

i have to find some kind of foundation to work on though. i'm just boosting and praying. need to see if there's a way to boost down twice in a row.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:00:50 AM
Okay, I'm burned out. I spent 7 hours perfecting this technique and I've got a headache and canno' go on right now. I shall explain in utter detail as best I can how I got as high as I did, maybe a fresh pair of eyes can improve on it for that extra inch we need.

Okay, first off, this is tough to do. It takes practice, and you must practice it in steps as I had to. Unless you're more skilled than I, but what are the odds :P

Practice each step until you are REALLY good at it, because to do the next thing at all, you have to be really good at the step before it.

Here goes.

Getting up Suntower without opening the runic gate. Spiderball required.

Needless to say, explode the war wasp hives first. You don't need them bugging you.

Throughout all of this (after step 1) keep holding R as well as UP on the control stick. Don't let go unless you've got this down pat and are trying to tweak it to see if letting go helps with height.

Bomb 1: Burning out. Placing bomb 1.

Okay, going up the runic gate takes 5 bombs all at once. The problem is you only have 3. Ah but aren't you clever, you can turn a 3 into a 5 as easily as an Enron accountant.

In the suntower, with the spiderball, latch onto the spiderball track using R. Now push Down. Hold Down. When you're as far down as you can go (you shouldn't even be touching the track, just close to it stuck by magnetics) you are in proper position

Press A AND HIT UP at the SAME TIME. From this point on do not stop pressing UP on the control stick.

You'll lay a bomb and go up the track. I worked it out so this exact location makes you waste enough time to make the bombs refil riiight after you place 2 and 3. So when you get near the top of the track, you place them as I describe below:

Bombs 2 and 3: Going Up.

These two are the first REAL bombs you place. Get good at placing them like so:

Going UP the spiderball track, look at your speed. As soon as you slow down from going over the "corner" near the top, place bomb 2. Then place bomb 3 right afterwards. They should not be EXACTLY in the same spot, but pretty darn close. You placed bomb 2 right as you were going up the corner, and bomb 3 as you at just about as high as you could go.

Keep holding up

Bomb 2 should propel you horizontally a little ways and bomb 3 should propel you up. I'm not sure why it works this way, but it does. It'll make you go up the runic gate.

If you did this correctly, you should go up about as high as the lower runic symbols.

If you draw a line through the center of the two bottom runic symbols, the center of YOU, should go AS HIGH OR HIGHER than that. If it doesn't go this high, don't go to the next step, you need to get good at doing this one right first.

If your timing was good, you not only went as high as I said you should, but you placed them both before your bombs refilled, but not too long before. Your bombs refilled JUST after placing bomb 3.

Once you've got it, continue as follows
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:01:14 AM
Bomb 4: The Jump-Start.

The timing for this one is difficult, and I can't really give you many tips.

In a double bomb jump, you place your second bomb just before the first explodes. This bomb acts like that one, but don't place it so late, place it way earlier than you think you should

It is placed right at the same spot as bomb number 3 was placed

If your timing was right, you will go as high as the bottom runic symbols from bomb 3 propelling you up. When you fall back down, this bomb, bomb 4, should explode and propel you up AGAIN

If it exploded too late or early to propel you up again, adjust your timing and try again. This one is tough to master, so keep at it.

If you did it correctly, you go HIGHER for some reason than bomb 3 propelled you. You should go about halfway up the runic gate

HALFWAY. Any less and you need to keep trying. Every inch counts in this. Once you can go that high about 4 out of 5 tries, give the next one a shot. It gets worse, you have been warned.

Bomb 5: the Booster

This one is worse than bomb 4, believe it or not

After you have placed bomb 4 and after bomb 3 explodes and propels you, you want to place this bomb, bomb 5 about halfway to the peak of your jump

Why only halfway? I'm not sure, but any higher and it will not explode soon enough for it to hit you and make you go up

If you placed this correctly, approximately 1/4 of the way up the runic gate, maybe a bit higher, then this is what will happen

Bomb 3 explodes, you go up, place bomb 5 as you are going up halfway to the peak of your jump, you go down, bomb 4 explodes and propels you up into bomb 5 which explodes and propels you even higher

You should be about 2/3 of the way up the runic gate from this bomb. Not quite as high as the top runic symbols, but reasonably close

This one takes lots of practice, if you aren't about 2/3 of the way up, or you feel you could have gone higher, keep trying. You need this one DOWN before placing the last one

Bomb 6: The Final Stretch

This one isn't so bad, bomb 5 was the worst one. If you have that down, this one should be okay

Place this bomb at the peak of your FIRST ascent after being blown up by bomb 3. In other words, right after bomb 5. This one is placed about half way up the runic gate

Timing is everything

If you placed it right, after bomb 5 propels you up, bomb 6 explodes and propels you higher still.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:01:58 AM
The Result

Here is a crude drawing to give you an understanding of the process

------- runic gate top
F
E
D
C
------- runic gate bottom
B
A

You burned a bomb as mentioned in the first step, when you get between point A and B, place bomb 2
at point B place bomb 3, very quickly after 2
wait a little bit, place bomb 4 at point B still

still holding UP and R for all of this

Bomb 2 and 3 explode propelling you upward to point D

On your way up to point D

You place bomb 5 at point C

You place bomb 6 right after at point D

You fall down

you fall into bomb 4 at point B, it explodes and sends you

into bomb 5 at point C which explodes and sends you higher

As you rise and pass point D, bomb 6 explodes adding massive upward momentum

the combined upward thrust of bombs 4, 5, and 6, as you went through points B C and D send you up so hard that you pass point F and the top of the gate

If you did it as well as I did, you got red leaves to fall off of the red leaf plant because you went so high. A couple times I got about 2/3 of the morph ball ABOVE the top of the runic gate

HOWEVER, I could not get higher. I only got that after about 6 hours of screwing with this and I kinda burned out for today

I have not made it to the top, but by getting better at doing this, adjusting placement of bombs 5 and 6, or maybe releasing R at some point, or morphing at the end, or just getting better timing or tweaking something else, the top can be reached I'm sure.

Go nuts.

And believe me, if you do this, you will go nuts.

Thanks to Kip for inspiring placement of bombs 2 and 3

Thanks to Solr_flare for inspiring placement of bomb 5

Thanks to me for putting 7 damned hours into it today and getting a headache. Good luck. I hope you get to the top, so I don't have to try anymore ;)

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:21:49 AM
hydro access tunnel isn't going anywhere either. i have an idea of how to get through it, but i only get one shot each time because if i screw up she gets pushed to where the energy tank is and that's the point of no return unless there's something i'm missing. hopefully someone else will try it out too.

here's the easiest way to get there, all of this is without gravity suit:

cargo freight lift to deck gamma: go to the first conduit in this room, then notice the wall to the right of it. you want to lock your view on the conduit and move against the wall. then do a jump and move to the right SLIGHTLY, but stop after that and start moving left.

if done correctly samus jumps as if the water isn't hindering her movement. don't hit her head on anything, and as you're moving left, space jump and move toward the top of the structure at the peak of the jump. with a little practice it's easy to land on the top.

from here, space jump to the platform with the first reaper vine using the same premise; pushing against the wall to start the jump for extra height and then moving away. it helps a little if you have the plasma beam since you can kill the reaper vines. jump up and shoot the second conduit from the platform with the reaper vine, then go into ball mode.

push against the sloped ground and you'll notice samus stays at where she's at. just bomb/boost ball your way to the last platform in the water. once you get there, turn around, away from the sloped ground. do that same jump against the sloped ground, then do your second jump at the peak and move toward the top. you'll barely land on it. shoot the last conduit and proceed.

it shouldn't be a problem getting to hydro access tunnel from here. if a better explanation is needed somewhere, ask and i'll answer if i'm around. i also wouldn't mind people trying to get through hydro access tunnel (without the gravity suit obviously).

there's another way to get near the last platform without using ball form, but it's incredibly complicated and there's no point of me going into detail about it when an infinitely easier way exists (simply bombing your way up).
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:25:41 AM
Just to add to the Rune gate method....for those who have it down take note of the following:

you know how Sess said to hold down R right? Well if you hold down R then the height you get shot up to after bomb 3 is always consistant. But, if you don't hold down R when they go off things get weird.

Either

A) You won't gain as much height as when you do hold R

or

B) You actually go a little bit higher off the blast from bomb 3.

This little extra height is probably all we need to clear the rune gate and latch on above it. I'm not sure why the height of the jump isn't consistant but I'm almost 100% confident its because of the timing...specfically you have to let go of R just at the right time otherwise you drop down just a fraction of a inch before the bombs go off thus loosing some height and hurting the momentum.

So, if you can get the timing just right and be able to let go and not press R again until you peak after bomb 6, then you should be able to shift the placement of bombs 4, 5, and 6 a bit higher and thus gain the extra 1/3 of a morphball thats needed to clean the gate.

So once you get the technique down as explained above...if you want to try for more height...work on not holding R starting from the instant bombs 2 and 3 go. This is definately doable and once we get this..we can leave off charge and super missles.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:28:07 AM
Well kip, we just made immense progress towards what was considered impossible yesterday. A 24% game :P. Go us!

Of course you realise if the boost ball is the only way to Hydro Access, and thusly Mines Sans Gravity, then that seals all hope of eliminating boost ball

Just as the hope of skipping super missle my methods supplied also sealed all hope of eliminating spider ball

And everything else is pretty much required by law.

I fear 24%, if we can get it, is surely the boundary

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:34:21 AM
boost ball isn't needed to get to the tunnel, but past it... it probably is cuz i can't imagine how you'd do it without it.

the only thing i can think of that would work (hopefully there's other ways i'm not aware of), is doing that thing that makes samus go WAY down right when she enters the current that pushes you up to the energy tank. perhaps that would make her go down enough to get through the current... i'll check how low it goes in my 100% game soon.

also, i need to load my game again and go through phazon mines the back way, then go to the rooms after hydro access tunnel. because i want to make sure you can get out of the last bits of water in tallon overworld without grav suit; if you can't, and someone found a way past hydro access tunnel, that would be very depressing. i'd like to spare everyone the pain of that if i can. =[
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:43:27 AM
Well Kip, I hope you can pull it off...if for some reason you can't...I will say that the Sun Tower bomb jumping looks like its going to work. So, even if we can't skip the Grav suit without getting an extra expansion, we probably are going to want to skip the grav suit anyway because without a charge beam, an extra PB would be worth it for the OP fight.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:52:12 AM
P.S. Funky, if you still have that file before battling OP, try laying a power bomb and switching to Scan Visor. Maybe that'll work :P The only reason no one's tried using Scan Visor to hurt OP is you can't shoot while using it. But bombs will still blow up. Who knows?

23 percent if my insane idea is right. Now THAT'S murder. MURDER he says.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:01:31 AM
haha, man omega pirate would be tough stuff in hard 23%, that is just hilarious to think about.

without the charge beam i don't think i could kill 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 3 beam pirates before he shows up in his invisible form, so while you're trying to do all that power bomb stuff they're shooting at you and following you around slashing at you...
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:02:26 AM
wait a second.. WAIT A SECOND

Do power bombs hurt beam pirates?

Bomb 'em, they leave you refils, you worry about OP
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:04:54 AM
Well like we were discussing in chat....basically if this stuff works out and we skip the charge beam and super missle...I don't think it'll be beatable in hard mode without them. Normal, sure..but no way on hard for that low a percentage...add in skipping grav if you get your method to work Kip and it would be just about unbeatable on hard. I'd bow to anyone who could do it if we pull skipping these last items.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Darksaber310 | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:11:35 AM
Seriously mad props to you guys, my friend and I just spent all day practically, getting the tbj variations down, got the stuff before Flarggha (sp?) and Thardas, any ways, keep up the good work, we need more people around here like you to give a good game a longer life span.
---
If people didn't speak for fear of making themselves look dumb, it sure would be a hell of a lot quieter here.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:26:34 AM
Hey guys...something just occured to me so I came back online before it slipped my mind. I really really hate to be the bearer of bad news but even if Kip gets the Skipping Gravity suit to work and Sess gets the Rune Gat ebomb jump to work....we will still never ever be able to get lower than 25% completion.

Why do you ask will we not be able to get 24% Because unfortunately we have all forgot something kinda important....power conduits...you have to have the charge beam to be able to activate a power conduit. Maybe, just maybe you can get around that if you use the existing method of skipping the gravity suit by grabbing an extra power bomb expansion. But if Kip manages to make it through the frigate and let us skip Gravity we will have no choice but to at least grab the charge beam because we *have* to have it to power up those conduits in the shaft. So no matter what...25% will likely be the lowest we can ever hope to go.
---
Solr_Flare
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:43:39 AM
huh? i've activated conduits without the charge beam... is there one where you have to use the charge beam or something?
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:49:05 AM
I don't remember one, and I scanned a FAQ quickly to see if it mentioned one and it didn't

I think Solr is drunk and sleepy at the same time. Yep.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:05:20 AM
ok guys, i went through phazon mines the back way and checked out the room after hydro access tunnel with the varia suit, which is great tree hall. even without the gravity suit it's easy to get out of the water, just space jump up the steps.

so the only obstacle should be hydro access tunnel, but i had to make sure. it's weird how in waste disposal you move as if you had the gravity suit though, no water pushing you up.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:25:54 AM
and as for how low the current to the energy tank goes, it's not too far. not that short but not too far either, it seems shorter than the distance from the energy tank to where you enter the current.

and the good news is that if you can fight your way past that one, that's the only part where you need to go down but it pushes you up. after that there are 2 currents that you can just ride up to great tree hall. so, find a way past the current that goes up to the energy tank, and gravity suit can be skipped without getting a power bomb expansion.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:31:33 AM
I DID IT

HOLY COW, UNBELIEVABLE

What did I do? Well guess dopey

I made it up the runic gate

Using the EXACT method I described

and a morph at the end for a little extra height

YEAH BABY

SUPER MISSLE SKIPPED

CHARGE BEAM SKIPPED

25 percent can be achieved

At the peak of my jump after bomb 6 I morphed

and I got there

The top of the runic gate CAN be stood on

I did it, I don't believe it, I did it, I still don't believe it

Good lord, I'm sooooo happy

FIRST ONE THERE! YEEEEAH!

Can you tell I'm happy? Ahem anyway

The method I described on page 37, it's exactly that

That's how I did it, the method that took me 7 dang hours to perfect :D

I took a few hours break, and tried again

In half an hour I was hitting the leaves like a pro

Once you can hit the leaves, just morph at the end, you stand on it

It works, IT WORKS

However, you'll NEVER believe this

The magnetic spider ball track above the runic gate?

Before you open it it is not magnetic

So I can't say for certain I can get to the Sunchambe from here, I'm gonna try to double bomb jump to that magnetic cube thing and avoid the oculuses though

but you can get past the grate. Just morph at the end. I rock

I rock so hard

YEAH BABY

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:33:49 AM
P.S. I hit an oculus on my attempt to dbj up. I fell back down :P

I can't believe the magnetic strip ABOVE the gate isn't even REAL until you open the gate. That sucks

I may have to ride the oculuses all the way up or something

Ah well. The gate is conquered, I'm happy, even if I didn't get to the ACTUAL sunchamber :P

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:35:58 AM
I prbably shouldn't do this again until I get the Ice beam so I can freeze the oculuses. And neither should you, lest you suffer the same fate I just did. Ah well.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:41:34 AM
hmm, so the piece above the gate isn't real? or the entire track after that?
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:42:48 AM
The piece RIGHT above it is not real

The rest I can't attest to, I tried to double bomb jump up to the magnetic "cube" and magno-latch onto it, but my timing was bogus and I hit an oculus and got knocked back down

I can only HOPE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD that the other track pieces are real, otherwise that may have been for nothing

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:49:08 AM
geez, it seems like the obstacles never end sometimes. who would've figured a piece of the track isn't real (or the whole thing after?) until you open the gate.

i'll try this out too, but it sounds pretty scary to tell the truth. if i can manage to do it though i'll see if i can find out about whether it's the piece above the gate or the whole track, that is if you don't first. =P
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:56:18 AM
Wow, I just did it again. Funny how when you do something once it gets easier

I have WONDERFUL News

The rest of the track is real

Double bomb jump up to the cube holding R

And you latch onto it

Only the piece JUST above the gate isn't real

I'm in the SUNCHAMBER

I'M FIGHTING THE GHOSTS

And I never opened the gate

Yes, I am happy today :)
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:06:37 AM
P.S. I don't know why I said page 37. My method is described in page 33. There is no page 37 yet :P

Take that method and morph at the end for extra height.

Perhaps next I'll give that hydro access tunnel a shot. Though not now, I'm too wired up ;)

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:06:42 AM
Where's everyone else? They need to see this!
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:07:35 AM
well, you're truly the man, so congrats. probably would've never happened if you didn't decide to help.

i'm just glad it worked, i know what it's like to keep trying something but it fails, hell i hit my own roadblock with hydro access tunnel just recently. i didn't want you getting discouraged.

i wonder if i should do a hard 25% run now or wait and see if anyone tests the scan visor/power bomb combo on omega pirate, and also if anyone gets through hydro access tunnel without grav suit...

my logic is, omega pirate and phazon mines will be torture, so i only want to do it once or twice... hmm. i really wish i could get my video capture card to work so that i could make a video of omega pirate (there's a driver issue with it). i doubt anyone will believe me if i beat him without charge beam. in the end i don't really care, but still.
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:11:33 AM
Has anyone worked on those no-Varia Magmoor runs lately? It won't give a low percentage, but it's still something to try...
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:18:40 AM
i tried a few times after finally getting space jump, but i still couldn't get to monitor station (very close though).

it's just that you still have to go through monitor station and transport tunnel A when you're pretty much completely out of energy when you step inside monitor station. it seems too hard for me personally to do without around 2 more energy tanks.

hmm if i start a hard 25% run i have to get rid of my experimentation file at the crashed frigate without grav... unless i delete my completed hard 28% or hard 27% speed runs, which i don't want to do. =[
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:20:09 AM
... why do you still keep a 28% file if you have a hard 27 one? Silly though the question is I'm sure
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:27:29 AM
i don't know. i guess it's stupid but it's kind of like a trophy. actually the time isn't that great anyway, when fighting the last boss it goes over 4 hours. by comparison my hard 27% was 3:20 after the last boss since i used stuff like plasma beam early to save major time.

i think i'll get rid of it, then i can keep the others for now. after all i've deleted low % games before.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:32:09 AM
ok, what to do? now that you don't need the super missile, there is absolutely no point to going through the pirate base in phendrana AFAIK, just wastes time.

i should just go through twin fires. only problem with that is that i'm actually doing a hard low % game, so i get one try at that dbjm in the lava... annoying.

also need to actually practice that thing in the sun tower. i'd better get that down before i start.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:56:46 AM
Here's a tip:

If you're going high enough to make the red leaves fall, that's high enough. You can morph and make it going that high

If you're not going that high, don't bother morphing :P

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:58:05 AM
heh, i'm starting to get the timing of bomb 4 semi consistently. it's really weird, it's way sooner than you'd think it is.
From: Decaffinated Krab | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:08:18 AM
25% game has been completed ( http://s1.cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=32495&topic=6431261 )
---
"Behold the power of me!"- Me (Read my quote)
Currently Playing: S.S.B.M. (Roy rox) - FFX
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:09:40 AM
Well I didn't COMPLETE a 25 percent game, I just got around what was stopping it

Someone else can fight their way through the phazon mines and meta-ridley without a charge beam. I ain't touching it, at least not yet :P

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Decaffinated Krab | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:10:12 AM
U should have 27% at the top 26% in the middle and 25% at the bottom..
---
"Behold the power of me!"- Me (Read my quote)
Currently Playing: S.S.B.M. (Roy rox) - FFX
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:19:26 AM
oh that's right, i almost forgot, i actually need to learn how to dodge the faster version of ridley's charge now. =]

can't just shoot him in the mouth with charged plasma beam and stop the charge anymore. i still think the worst part is either omega pirate or the power bomb run... probably omega pirate. but really, any part of phazon mines crawling with beam pirates will be pretty unpleasant from now on.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:31:15 AM
Now that you don't have the charge beam and super missles, good luck fighting the THREE chozo ghosts with no energy tanks for the artifact

I think a turbo controller might be called for

Especially with the added pressure of knowing that if the chozo ghosts kill you, you'll have to make it up there again...

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:34:51 AM
"Especially with the added pressure of knowing that if the chozo ghosts kill you, you'll have to make it up there again..."

i was just thinking about that too... ugh =[

hmm bomb 6 is weird... is it like bomb 2 and 3? pretty much right after 5?
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:37:15 AM
yeah, right after five. The rhythm for 5-6 is almost exactly the same as for 2-3

Remember funkytoad's early space jump technique? Two bombs quickly for added momentum? It's like that.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:55:18 AM
i think i'm putting 5 and 6 too close together. but at least i can touch the top symbols about half the time.

well anyway... besides the hydro access thing i bet you're right about the %, i don't know how it'd go any lower especially since some things depend on others now, like spider ball needed for skipping charge beam and super missile, very likely that boost ball will be used to get past hydro access if it's even possible, etc.

also, skipping grapple beam depends pretty much entirely on space jump, not that anyone wants to play without space jump in the first place. =]

12 artifacts will be needed no matter what unless some huge glitch is discovered, so will the 3 beams you get, and probably all the morph ball abilities. that's 20% right there. add space jump, varia suit, x-ray visor unless the scan visor thing works, and 1 other thing...
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:55:44 AM
not that anyone wants to play without space jump in the first place. =]

*I* do... but I can't climb high enough in Frozen Pike w/o it, and I have no idea how to get into the mines w/o space jump unless I at least have the gravity suit (or can duplicate Tim's tbjm crazniness onto the low spinner platform in geo core)

NICE job guys. This is some seriously good ****. Kip I'll see if I can make it to hydro access tunnel to try out what you're talking about; I've had pretty good luck making those kind of ghetto jumps :) underwater.

Sesshoumaru, what can I say? Major props to you and your mad bomb jumping skillz(tm) climbing the sunchamber w/NO super missile. I'm looking forward to trying this as well. Amazing!

Can hardly wait to mess around with this stuff! *explodes in a puff of greasy black smoke
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/9/2003 10:32:56 AM
You guys got up there???? w00t!!! I actually helped get us to 25%!!!!!

(I was the guy who got 80% of the way up the gate)
---
<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 10:37:22 AM
Oh yeah I remember you. You're the one that made me buckle down and grind my way up. Thanks to you as well for sure.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/9/2003 10:39:01 AM
Yea!!!

This is my first gaming "discovery" for at least a year now. Back when Pikmin was new, I found a way to beat FOH with blue pikmin. Though I must say, this is much cooler.

*returns to animal crossing*
---
<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: Arathorn21st | Posted: 2/9/2003 10:50:02 AM
NOOOOOOO
Why did you have to do that? A 27% run might be possible for me, but 25%? Arrrgghhh...
---
Pokemon Stuff in Quote---AC: Name Ulysses, Town Athens
<Member of Peach's Castle Turnip Tossers>
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 10:55:22 AM
My explanation is on zell's site now so you don't have to sort through these pages to try to make sense of it. Just thought you all might like to know.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:02:24 AM
So, what is next in this game to skip? Any ideas?

BTW, can I get my name put on that guy's site? That would be coolz0rz.

---
<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: annoynweirdklown | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:09:23 AM
varia
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:13:38 AM
Just so everyone knows, I tried that scan visor thing on OP, back at the same time I tried the power bombs originally. No dice =P

Nice job though uh....YS =D

I think I'm gonna go see what kip is talking about in the frigate...I'm a little in the dark ;p
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:21:23 AM
Varia can't be skipped. To get the suntower artifact you need to first beat Flaahgra and get the suit.

Varia is needed
12 artifacts are needed
missle launcher is needed
3 beams are needed
power bomb holder is needed
phazon suit and beam are needed
morph ball is needed
bombs are needed
x-ray is needed

I'm afraid none of those are in question any longer. Retro was cheap and put in some "cannot get around" programming that requires all of those :(

That's 21 percent that unquestionably cannot be skipped
(phazon suit and beam don't count for percent)

The only things in any bit of question now are:

Gravity suit
Boost Ball
Space Jump
Spider Ball

To do my method of skipping the Super Missile and Charge Beam, Spider Ball is most definitely required, so as far as I'm concerned that's not in question either

If it turns out we MUST have boost ball to get through Hydro Access Tunnel, that also is definitely needed

It also seems kip is unable to make the jumps in the Frigate without the gravity suit without the help of Space Jump, and skipping grapple beam requires that as well

Most likely to next be skipped is Gravity Suit says I. Kip is so dang close, he got one room away from the mines without it

The Space Jump I doubt, but who knows

Spider and Boost ball I don't think can be skipped at all.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:24:39 AM
YS, do you have AIM or MSN? If not, get them, and if you do, post your sn ;p
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: keybladeswordsman | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:54:46 AM
What triggers the ghosts at the sunchamber>
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:00:43 PM
Well, I was about to get the ice beam, then head over to try the frigate, but the gamecube just froze (probably because I've got it on the windowsill, right in the sun =D). So yeah, I've kinda lost my inspiration for now (and I want to try a low % run, but I'm not gonna do it until gravity suit is confirmed/denied. Bah :(
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:13:15 PM
Has any one found a way back up to the elevator to Magmoor in the Phazon Processing Center without the spidreball? I am stuck there.
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:14:24 PM
Go to Zell's site, there's an explanation there.
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:15:49 PM
I found an area that you can stand on, but there isn't anywhere you can jump to. On the middle floor, where the ice beam door is (the one you need the ice beam for) there is a window on the other side. On both sides of the window are supports. You can stand in the middle of both of them. You can also stand ontop of the ice door. If anyone finds out a way back up to the elevator, please tell me.
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:25:00 PM
Found a new way to get up to the middle floor without using the thermal or x-ray visor. Go as you normally would all the way up to platform with the Turret on it. If you look behind you, you can see the track that you normally take. You can jump into the area of the track. It looks like this-
l_ ___
l_ __l
l_l
It's that area, you jump into the bottom area and turn into a morph ball once you are inside.
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 12:35:10 PM
It seems my drawing was messed up, let me try it again.
(ignore the dots)
_
.l_...___
...l_l

...
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: Videogaming | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:10:50 PM
Wow, I must congratulate kip, sess, etc. Nice job! Now all we need is a confirmation...good luck with that though. ::shudders::
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/9/2003 1:56:30 PM
OMG Sess! You did it! MAJOR congratulations, man! This is HUGE!

That whole thing with the fake spiderball track is kinda funny. Kinda reminds me of the whole Phazon Elite stasis tank. XD

Now, I'll leave the REAL freaking out until the Grav Suit is cleanly skipped. ;)
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 2:52:18 PM
Dang it, I go to bed last night and this happens. LOL whoops about the not having to charge to activate a conduit. I always have used a charged beam guess you learn something new every day.

Congrats again to you Sess, now I don't have to work on *that* all day long :) Glad the morphing out idea worked too. Its going to be sad if you pull off no Grav by going through the Frigate Kip....because if you do we may at last see the end of percentage drops...but there's still speed runs to optimize at least :) That and a thousand praises to the first to confirm a 25%(maybe 24% if you get no grav) on hard mode which may be dang near impossible and certainly the ultimate challenge of all time.
---
Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:00:16 PM
Interesting idea that could make all our lives easier...I'm going to go check it this out in just a sec unless someone is closer....

I wonder if Power Bombs can take out all the trooper types. Plasma troops will still be easy to handle without charge but if PB's can kill troopers, with no charge anymore it may come in handy as a last minute saviour in those mines..especially in hard mode.
---
Solr_Flare
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:07:58 PM
I am NOT Bumbing this...
---
AC Name: Jeryd <--> AC Town Name: Zeal
"It's purple-colored...I'll bet it's grape-flavored!"
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:19:40 PM
Wow. Now I have a completely pointless 27% speed run sitting around.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:24:03 PM
What'd i miss? 25% Game is possible now?
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:32:31 PM
Just did a quick tripple check here, power bombs do not affect any of the trooper types. Oh well....funny that they don't hurt the troopers but they can hurt OP :)
---
Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:34:21 PM
Hey Banks, feel free to stop back over at chat if oyu ahve any questions...was afk doing some tests. But yes 25% is now possible and Kip may make 24% possible if he can figure out how to get past the hydro access tunnel with no grav suit on.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/9/2003 3:40:54 PM
Yeah, it's strange that Power Bombs don't affect Power Troopers...killing them with Super Missiles was hard enough already...
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:00:54 PM
Where abouts in this topic is the chat info?

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: deej21 | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:01:31 PM
i think there has to be some way to skip spider ball since retro added stuff such as getting past ore processing w/o spider (saw the videos)...so that probably a hint that other stuff had been added to skip spider ball. Tho we obviously couldnt skip charge/super missle since u clearly need spider with that. but getting past ore processing is a start that we can build on to skip spider ball
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:03:52 PM
I think Metroid Quarantine A is the problem with no Spider Ball.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:07:08 PM
Also so far the bomb jump over the rune gate is the only way to get the Artifact without using charge and super missles. No other way has been found to get up there and refresh the rooms after beating Flaahgra..and oh how we tried that. Basically you either A have to drop all the way down or B actually go into the transport room first to refresh the thing. And there is no way to space jump back up.

So unless someone pulls a miracle, we are now locked on Spider Ball.
---
Solr_Flare
From: deej21 | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:08:37 PM
oh yeah those diagonal tracks...

well i think that there must be a way since theres a way to get past ore processing. We just need to find out a way. Maybe triple bomb jump out of phazon (idk, just makin stupid guesses)
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:11:26 PM
That's a little high for a tbj.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:42:38 PM
Can someone please help me?!?!?!?!?!
I went to Zell's site and I am trying what it says to do, but I can't do it. It seems that I don't understand it. I understand the whole standing on the support thing, but I don't understand what to do after that, PLEASE explain it to me!!!!
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 4:48:46 PM
Which trick are you refering to?

---
Solr_Flare
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:01:55 PM
The phazon Processing center, getting to the magmoor elevator without the spider-ball.
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:23:03 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:23:55 PM
Will someone please help me??? Please, I really need help.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:27:11 PM
I've never done that one myself so I can't help ya...anyone else?
---
Solr_Flare
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:29:54 PM
Thanks anyway. I am not being sarcastic, I really mean it. It's just that I don't want to restart the game and I have been trying since about 10:30 this morning. So I am a little wired over this game.
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:30:08 PM
sess should get on mirc to explain this to me =p
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 5:59:22 PM
I'm back. I'm going to give Hydro Access a go, just for kicks. If I can even make it that far :o

Anyone else get up the grate with my method by the way? Was my description easy to follow?

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:11:16 PM
Can you please help me with the phazon processing center, without the spider-ball
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:22:10 PM
Why won't any one help me???
---
I use to be a skitzophrenic, but now we're fine
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:25:48 PM
kip, I tried out the method you suggested for getting through the frigate, and it works like a charm. My hat's off to you for finding exactly that spot to jump from to make it on top of the elevator; I spent so much time trying to find something like that myself and got nowhere near close enough, so I had given it up. Great find. =)

I got to Hydro Access tunnel, and the good news is that somehow, I've been able to do big consecutive boosts downward, all the way to just short (like half a morph ball's diatance) from touching the bottom. What's more, I managed this from up at the energy tank. Problem is, I can't figure out exactly how I'm doing it. =P

The key seems to be getting Samus to do one of those big downward boosts first, and then timing subsequent boosts so that they fire when she's still got good downward momentum. I've managed to get them started a couple times from the same spot up top, but I haven't got as far down toward the bottom as before yet because I keep missing the timing for the boosts when I do get the first one right (prolly 'cause I'm not ready for it). Nevertheless I find it very hard to believe that it's not possible to pass through the frigate without grav now; it's just going to take some further experimenting and messing around until someone gets it, then puzzling over exactly how it's working.

Anyway, thanks for the tip and don't get discouraged. I'm positive this trick's going to work.

Youkai, I haven't tried your trick yet, but I'll let you know how it works out for me when I make it that far.

Chris, I'd like to help but unfortunately that trick you're talking about is kip's baby, and I haven't tried it out yet so I'm useless. Hopefully kip or someone else who's used it successfully will eventually show up to help you.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:29:51 PM
kip, one detail I forgot to mention is that when I made all those consecutive boosts toward the bottom, I'm pretty sure I was holding down the entire time after I got the first boost going. I've been trying pushing the control stick in different directions to get the first one started, but once you get going I think the only thing to really be careful of is the boost timing so you keep your momentum.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:36:21 PM
Amasawa: over in chat we have been discussing the idea of using bombs to help propell you down even further while you charge up boosts...that may give you the extra edge you need.

---
Solr_Flare
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:36:21 PM
Thank you amasawa, I am not being sarcastic either. This game is really getting me mad because I have been trying this for a really long time. Since about 10:30 this morning
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:50:47 PM
Something else that I found (not sure if it will in any way) but you can also stand on doors. I found that out when I was jumping around the Phazon processing center. I landed on top of the ice door.
---
Respect List: Amasawa, SolrFlare, RESurvivorchick107, JBY
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:51:20 PM
Hey amasawa, I'm giving the frigate a shot. Get on irc encase I need help in here

And make funky and kip get mIRC too. MAKE THEM.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:55:37 PM
finally got it. getting that first boost going and being ready with a second is the tricky part; once you've got that, you're golden. made it all the way down and through the frigate to the mines, so it's now 100% confirmed that it's possible to finish the entire game without getting the gravity suit AND any of the power bomb expansions. guess that means a 24% game if someone can get through the mines w/o the charge beam. >=). oh, and if they can do what I just did without bumping into that e-tank up top first; I can't seem to get the boost going before I've bumped into it accidentaly, so I'm gonna keep working on this for a bit.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:57:12 PM
chris: it's ok, that section is kind of poorly explained. it's like one of my posts that went directly to the site without being cleaned up first.

anyway, go to the middle of the room where all the crates are and the 2 twisty tracks. turn and look at the huge glass window, then look on either side of the wall. on both sides there's a large... i don't know wtf to call it, but it has bars and there are multiple places to stand on. this is what you use to skip the tracks. use the one that is closest to the door that goes to the elevator (it's on the left side of the room when you enter from the ice door on the middle platform).

so what you want to do is go to the edge of the middle platform, then space jump on top of the bar at the bottom. from here, face the glass window and jump off of the bar (make sure she doesn't hit her head). while still in the air space jump and move forward into the structure (past the bottom bar you used before). she'll stop in midair when she touches it if you found the right spot.

does that make sense so far?
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:59:03 PM
I have mIRC, I just don't know what server, etc you're on. I remember kip saying EsperNet, but that's not on my list of servers (my mIRC is kinda old I guess), and when I try just doing /server irc.Esper.net, it doesn't work :( Any help getting in?
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 6:59:24 PM
you can force her to go down right before you enter the current by doing a single bomb jump, then when she's descending you boost. since she's moving down, she boosts down.

i don't know if it'd help for anything though.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:00:58 PM
that might help a lot, thanks =)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:01:35 PM
Wow, 24 percent. That's gotta be the limit.

So Amasawa, does cleanly skipping the gravity suit ABSOLUTELY require the boost ball to get through that room?

If so then skipping Grapple Beam made Space Jump necessary
Super Missle and Charge Beam made Spider Ball necessary
And Gravity Suit made Boost Ball necessary

and that's it

There is nothing else that's in question

One may skip e-tanks, missile tanks and power bomb expansions, the 4 beam combos, Thermal Visor, Grapple Beam
Charge Beam, and Gravity suit. Nothing else.

24 is the absolute limit.

Man, we went from 27 to 24 in two days. What's left?

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:03:09 PM
Funky:

Try cosmos.esper.net

#MetroidPrime

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:06:22 PM
uh well, i have no idea how to boost down twice in a row or more, so i need to learn that. but great to hear that that room didn't screw everyone over. =]

did anyone happen to test scan visor/power bomb?
From: Chris25 | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:06:52 PM
Thank you so much kip. You are now on my respect list!!!! Thanks again.
---
Respect List: Amasawa, SolrFlare, RESurvivorchick107, JBY, kip
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:16:04 PM
Yeah funky said the scan visor power bomb thing don't work.

Of course one more person to try it never hurts :P

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:17:51 PM
you already got past the tracks? that wasn't the end of the explanation. =P

although from there it's semi obvious... space jump to the next highest bar (which looks exactly like the first one), then from there you can easily space jump to a platform above all the tracks.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:32:15 PM
24% o_O come to the irc channel to chat about this
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 7:41:47 PM
Is there any point to writing a speed guide for a 24 percent game? I mean speed is pretty much shot if you're going to do this, right?

And what's to write? There's only 24 items you need to get, and HALF of them are artifacts. A FULL HALF. That and bosses.

I mean just make straight lines from item A to B. I guess the artifact order may be switched around, that's it.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/9/2003 8:12:15 PM
yeah, boost seems totally necessary for skipping hydro access tunnel. I don't have any idea how you'd make it through there w/o it unless you've got grav.

kip, after the first good boost, try to boost again before Samus comes to a stop. once you've got that down and can see the timing, you'll be able to scoot through there pretty easily, I think
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Suporuko | Posted: 2/9/2003 8:41:34 PM
If you people don't stop cutting items off like this, your going to force me to finish off my hard mode game and try playing one of these low % games.
---
I know and it gets kinda annoying. Whoever made up those catch-phrases is a weirdo for sure, imo.- Buffy Rox aka Nicholas23 on his own catch-phrases
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/9/2003 8:46:54 PM
I updated my FAQ for 27%. Now look. I have to do a lot more.

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/9/2003 8:59:02 PM
Woah, I confirm that hydro access can be gotten through without gravity. I managed to get something to happen like Amasawa did. I have no idea how though :P

Basically from up where the E-tank was, I kept boosting around and one time I boosted like way down (holding down on the control stick) and I stayed there, had time to charge up fully and boost again, I still went down, even after a complete stop, and then it happened again, so I got to the bottom and out

Now if we could only figure out WHY that happened

Not to mention how to do it without touching that e-tank

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:00:38 PM
yeah, touching the tank would be a problem in low %.
From: HughJass | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:16:57 PM
Can you guys list the items you get for a 24% game? I can see skipping the charge beam but don't you need super missiles to get a couple of the artifacts? The artifact in the stone pillar in Magmoor for example.
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:20:17 PM
that artifact you mentioned can be gotten with regular missiles, same with control tower.

missile launcher
morph ball
morph ball bombs
varia suit
boost ball
space jump
wave beam
ice beam
plasma beam
spider ball
power bomb
x-ray visor
phazon suit & phazon beam (doesn't add % though)

add the 12 artifacts and you have 24%.
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:22:09 PM
Regular missiles work for that pillar, I believe. Here's what we still need.

Missile Launcher
Morph Ball
Morph Ball Bombs
Varia Suit
Boost Ball
Space Jump
Wave Beam
Ice Beam
Plasma Beam
Spider Ball
Power Bombs
X-Ray Visor
12 Artifacts
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:22:40 PM
I need to type faster. =p
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: HughJass | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:50:22 PM
Wait so to break the rock with the artifacts, I just shoot a few missiles at it? All those times I passed the artifact thinking I needed super missiles... I feel dumb now :/

I would also like to officially declare you guys insane (in a good way) :) I can't imagine having to face ridley, omega pirate, or prime without charged beam/super missiles/energy tanks. And then you're also going to face omega without damage-reduction of gravity suit... someone please make a video of any of those fights cause I really wanna see those elite skills in action!
From: Shynkz | Posted: 2/9/2003 9:55:55 PM
Yep. The Artifact in that pillar of Magmoor Caverns can even be the first Artifact you get. =P
---
Now Playing for GCN: Metroid Prime - [Beaten]
Now Playing for GBA: Metroid Fusion - [Beaten]
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/9/2003 10:13:08 PM
nice Sesshoumaru, so you were able to still boost after complete stop? Very strange. Nice to know you made it without the e-tank, that's additional confirmation that's helpful.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:05:04 PM
The site is updated with the No Grav Frigate and the Sun Tower thingy. I also modified the 27% game section into a 24% game (i know it's still 27 in the toolbar)

You go visit. You give feedback. You live happy.

read my sig for URL
---
BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid - http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: DoofusTheDisruptive | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:09:08 PM
Wow.
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:11:37 PM
Wow. 24%. Amazing. Nice job Amasawa and Kip on the no gravity thing.

We can go lower :) Maybe somebody will find a way to beat OP without X-ray. And perhaps somebody will get lucky in Magmoor and make Varia skipable. (well, it all depends on whether Flagraa is loaded when coming in from the back way in the Sunchamber)

---
<AC-907><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx?> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: Zero IX | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:19:06 PM
Now all someone needs to do is write a FAQ for a 24% game. :) I will when I play the game over . . . right now, I'm stucked on getting the plasma beam early. That jump from the thin metal plating to the first spiderball track square . . . where exactly are you supposed to stand? It sucks because if you miss, you have to restart because you can't jump from the the rock spire to the first spinner platform (because it is smaller, or at least, that's my experience).
---
vincit omnia veritas
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:30:04 PM
Give me time and I'll update mine...

---
The real question is: Where do I wear it? ~ ass wears a chestwig
From: darklich | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:30:57 PM
One of you crazy gamers should consider uploading a 24% USB save to the site or possibly record the whole game done in either speed mode of 24% mode... while all of us believe its possible.. some of us just want to gape in awe for a few hours :-D
From: YoungBlood | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:40:39 PM
[This message was deleted by a GameFAQs Moderator]
From: kip | Posted: 2/9/2003 11:59:24 PM
amasawa needs some credit for the frigate because he found a way through hydro access, IMO.

btw, do you guys ever use aim for these conversations? the comp i'm on right now has a problem with irc (it's different, it's a lot slower and stuff).

someone make a chat room or something... =[
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/10/2003 12:07:32 AM
We use IRC for chat at the moment....don't run AIM myself...btw Amasawa just made it through without hitting the e-tank on his 24% run so its 100% confirmed you can do it without hitting the tank. But apparantly its still not reliable

if you can use irc we are on irc.esper.net in room #metroidprime
---
Solr_Flare
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/10/2003 12:09:50 AM
and Kip, if you need to use IRC, why not just download MIRC over at www.mirc.com unless its a linux or mac box anyway...latest version might help you out
---
Solr_Flare
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/10/2003 12:55:38 AM
Hey, I am having trouble getting the plasma early... that jump you need to do to get on to the first of the spider tracks, how are you suposed to do that? I can not get enough height, and it is not shown in the video...

Thanks!
---
AC Name: Jeryd <--> AC Town Name: Zeal
"It's purple-colored...I'll bet it's grape-flavored!"
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/10/2003 3:57:26 AM
Well, I'm trying to see how far I can get without using the Morph Ball. Right now I'm stuck at that part in the Phazon mines where I apparently make stuff up that can never happen...

Seriously though, great job! 24%, what else can we do to lower this...?
---
Roboticus is Champion!
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 2/10/2003 8:56:43 AM
Cool. Everybody that found a way to beat the game on 24% (even if you haven't actually beat OP yet) is way cool. But, now we know that 24% is the absolute low. Unless someone can do another combo that somehow can survive use different items and cut it down to 23%... But that is very unlikely. So I am focusing all my efforts on a Varia-less Magmoor Caverns run. It won't do anything to lower the % though, unless someone finds some shortcut and gets through w/o any energy tanks. Well, first I have to find the space jump before Fllhgra (man Retro made it hard to pronounce) and then see if I can get any more energy tanks (my current count is only three. So is anyone going to help me?!
---
I am the Master, version XP.
<|0|> <|0|>
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/10/2003 9:24:46 AM
supersaiyan--

it is a bit tricky, especially until you start getting the hang of using walls to increase Samus' jump height.

some guidelines that may help:

1) stand below and just to the right of the block, facing the wall, then look down slightly and lock position with the L trigger.

2) once in position, jump while pushing forward against the wall for about half of the first jump, then pull back away from the wall and to the left so that you're in midair just in front of the block

3) make your midair jump pushing forward again toward the block. use the post sticking out of the middle of the block to help you. don't try to land on it, just push against part of it to help Samus gain more height from the second jump

these are just some general pointers; they're not exact, but they're kinda what I'm doing when attempting this jump. your mileage may vary altering some of the details to get more height, prevent Samus from falling to the bottom of geo core if you miss the jump, etc.

btw, once you've landed on top of the first block, move away from the wall slightly before jumping to the second. part of the wall sticks out above Samus' head there, and if you're not careful it'll knock you off when trying to jump onto the top of the second block.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/10/2003 9:27:41 AM
snoopdigger-- good luck with it. afaik no one's been able to find a way to get more than 3 energy tanks before passing through Magmoor to phendrana at least once, since all of them before that are sealed off by beam doors if I recall correctly. so unless you find a way to a tank that's been overlooked, you're gonna be working on ways to get through magmoor to phendrana with just 3 tanks.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/10/2003 10:07:13 AM
Snoop...3 is the max we've been able to get. The 4th Energy tank is located in Magmoor right tbefore the elevator up to Phendrana. Its the double bomb jump puzzle.

Thing is, if you make it that far oyu are better off skipping the tank, going to the Phendrana save station, then coming back with full health. Now if only we could get that far to make that choice. There are two ways to make this run...The Elevator past the root cave from Tallon Overworld. Or the elevator from Chozo ruins. The Root cave elevator is much closer to the Monitor station but its so hot in Firey Shores that I don't think you can do a run from that direction.

I think the best option would be to make a run from teh Chozo ruins and about half way, find some point where you could rapidly refresh rooms and refill your health up all the way. If a spot can be found to refresh rooms and kill stuff fast enough to refill health then the run is definately doable.

Anyway, those are my best guesses so far based on the attempts I've made. Good luck.
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Solr_Flare
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/10/2003 10:15:03 AM
...Good God. I go away for two days and you've knocked it down to 25%, with 24% quickly approaching...

If I might ask, what is the problem with Hydro Access Tunnel sans Gravity? I thought we were skipping the entire Frigate.

-Tim
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/10/2003 10:20:08 AM
Or never mind. I finished reading the other posts, and saw it already is down at 24%...Yeesh, and I was hoping to stave off a few more days of FAQ updating (since I discovered a grievous error in my walkthrough of the Phazon Mines...)

OK, so is it..?

Morph Ball
Missile Launcher
Morph Ball Bomb
Varia Suit
Boost Ball
Space Jump Boots
Wave Beam
Ice Beam
Plasma Beam
Power Bombs
X-Ray Visor
Phazon Suit (not counted for %)
12 Artifacts of Chozo...

Wait, that's only 23, what am I missing? Do we still get that early PB Expansion to make the Mines a single trip?

-Tim
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/10/2003 10:54:20 AM
the spider ball.

yeah, the discoveries just exploded again; pretty cool. Going through the frigate w/o grav means getting that early pb expansion isn't required anymore, hence the 24%.
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/10/2003 10:56:20 AM
*Doh!*

Yeah, Spider Ball should go in there somewhere, methinks.

Also, someone brought up an interesting point on how badly you'll get owned in the Phazon Mines with no Charge Beam (or Super Missile) to handle the onslaughts of Beam Troopers o.O...

-Tim
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/10/2003 11:00:40 AM
yeah, I think it's pretty tough even on Normal mode myself. I've tried fighting through with no charge beam before on a low % game and couldn't even make it through ore processing (where the spider ball column is). Gonna give it another try today though.
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From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/10/2003 11:34:42 AM
Amasawa - Thanks for the advice...

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From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/10/2003 2:43:59 PM
LOL at SuperSayian's sig
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/10/2003 3:15:55 PM
SolrFlare:As for a magmoor no varia run, you'll never even make it past the room with the artifact of nature...it's HOT!!! Quite possibly the hottest room in the game.
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From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 2/10/2003 3:50:53 PM
Really, funkytoad? I didn't find it that attractive ;)
I agree with Tim, 2 days away, and BOOM! 24%
Lol you guys (kip, banks and amasawa) keep saying at the end of each topic "... we should stop, there;s nothing more to find... i'm tired" and then the next topic yields something new and exciting! You guys sound like the patent office at the end of the 1890s ("everything has been invented, lets close up")

Anyways, The list we have, it seems, is permanent.

12 artifacts (no getting around this)
3 beams (plasma required for phendrana edge artifact, ice required for plasma, wave for ice)
missile launcher (artifact temple, ice beam)
morph ball, morph bombs, power bombs, boost ball (ball needed to get bombs, bombs for tons of places, power for unblocking doors etc, boost for frig and spinners (laser gun in phazon mines for example)
spider ball (sun tower etc... impossible otherwise)
varia suit (no getting around it - magmoor is literally impossible with no e-tanks)
x-ray visor (the only possibility - OP... maybe if you lock on to him w/scan before the PB explodes...?)
space jump (required for no grapple and other stuff)

Of course, we were saying sun tower is impossible w/o charge and super, and, well... so full steam ahead, IMHO!
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/10/2003 3:54:35 PM
You can't scan OP while he's invisible, there's no square thingy to lock onto. Maybe you guys should just trust me when I say, you cannot hurt him without x-ray -_-;
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From: Arathorn21st | Posted: 2/10/2003 5:44:24 PM
Probably minor but could the Plasma Beam take the place of the Pulse Beam to destroy the rock? It would be one step closer to no Boost Ball...
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From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 2/10/2003 5:49:33 PM
I think I am close to a breakthrough on getting a fourth energy tank before my run through Magmoor Caverns. Stay posted.
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<|0|> <|0|>
From: Grinto | Posted: 2/10/2003 6:25:32 PM
And which tank might that be?
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Roboticus is Champion!
From: keybladeswordsman | Posted: 2/10/2003 7:30:07 PM
Well, I wish you luck. Another energy tank would help so I could live about ten second longer. (yeah, each tank lets you live far about ten seconds each unless you are on hard mode or in a very hot room...)

Anyway, from Tallon Overworld, you can reach the room before the moniter station in 40 seconds and need almost 40 second to get past the moniter station to the elevator(includes transport tunnel)If you can avoid puffers and turrets....

I did not try from chozo ruins because there are more rooms.

and if you try to get the tank in the transport will only cost about 8 extra seconds.(80 health)
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 2/10/2003 10:02:17 PM
This got pushed to page three?!?!?! BUMP!!!
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/10/2003 10:24:51 PM
Q(`-`)9 Bump~
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/11/2003 4:04:39 AM
('''\(';..;')/''') Bump~
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/11/2003 6:57:34 AM
Managed to find a way to get that missile expansion in the gravity chamber w/o grapple beam, as a workaround for that annoying glitch where the grapple point doesn't work. I don't recall seeing DEVILBIT or anybody else mention a step-by-step way to do it, so I gave it a shot in this topic:

http://s1.cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=32495&topic=6448510

zell, don't know if this is something you're interested in adding to your site or not, but as usual feel free to add it if you think it's appropriate. If you do put it up though, please be sure to credit DEVILBIT too because I do remember he's at least mentioned before that it was possible to get this expansion w/o grapple.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/11/2003 12:27:18 PM
alternate method of getting wavebuster early (posting this cuz someone's asking and I don't know the finer detail's of the method that banks and some other people use where you jump onto the spider track):

boost up the half pipe to the top on the side where the tunnel to the spider ball track is. Looking over at the platform where the wave beam door is, you'll see two half-circle orange designs on the walls to the left and right sides of it. There's a tiny ledge underneath each that Samus can stand on, so space jump to the one on the right, pushing as far as you can into the corner that's made up of the wall and the right side of the platform where the wave beam door. Take care to avoid the spider track or other obstructions on the ceiling as best you can when making the jump. once you're there, you can hop up to the platform w/ the wave beam door and continue on to getting the wavebuster as usual.
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From: Samus aran x | Posted: 2/11/2003 12:36:38 PM
thank you (i was the one that asked)
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/11/2003 12:37:50 PM
you're welcome. are we gonna get to see some eye candy on Samus freezing in Phendrana? =) (asking seriously)
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/11/2003 2:04:52 PM
hehe hopefully.

When i got the wavebuster, i just timed my spacejump so that i wouldn't hit the ceiling right before landing on the \_/ part of the spider ball track, then space jumped to the ledge.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/11/2003 2:13:29 PM
i'll have to try that sometime; sounds less complicated to me.
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/11/2003 5:33:44 PM
Yeah, not complicated at all. Bump
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From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/11/2003 6:23:20 PM
This topic isn't dead yet. Why is there a new one?
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/11/2003 7:45:12 PM
It would be a shame for this not to go to 500...

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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/11/2003 7:46:18 PM
THERE you are. I hope you're on IRC, cuz I'm comin' to hunt you down. =)
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:31:56 PM
this
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Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:32:10 PM
must
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Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:33:12 PM
get
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Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:33:31 PM
to
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Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:34:15 PM
500
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Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:36:13 PM
500...
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<|0|> <|0|>
From: Wild Eagle | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:43:40 PM
Mega Bump
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From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:44:03 PM
Just 10 more to go...
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If a chick ever complains about being "fat" just tell her you know an exercise that burns 500 calories an hour..
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:44:33 PM
By the way, what was learned in the past 490 posts?
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If a chick ever complains about being "fat" just tell her you know an exercise that burns 500 calories an hour..
From: Puchie | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:45:00 PM
bump
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:45:15 PM
I hope something cool was learned. I would hate for this to be all a waste....
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If a chick ever complains about being "fat" just tell her you know an exercise that burns 500 calories an hour..
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:45:58 PM
Who is going to get it? I never have....

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If a chick ever complains about being "fat" just tell her you know an exercise that burns 500 calories an hour..
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:47:02 PM
:-) This is spamming, right?

On topic, You guys really helped me out... Now only if I could get the plasma...!!
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If a chick ever complains about being "fat" just tell her you know an exercise that burns 500 calories an hour..
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:48:16 PM
Oh man! I can think of anything else cool to say!
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If a chick ever complains about being "fat" just tell her you know an exercise that burns 500 calories an hour..
From: SuperSayian | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:48:57 PM
How about... YEA!!!!
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If a chick ever complains about being "fat" just tell her you know an exercise that burns 500 calories an hour..
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/11/2003 8:49:07 PM
topic is now closed. please goto Metroid Prime Sequence Breaking(v. 5.0) [Previously Ice+Grav before Thardus]

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