(Skip Navigation) Metroid 2002

Current Speed Runs

All Speed Runs

Introduction

GameFAQs Topics

Techniques

Early Items (Quick Links)

Skipping the Thermal Visor

Skipping the Grapple Beam

Skipping the Charge Beam and Super Missiles

Skipping the Gravity Suit

Skipping the Spider Ball

Skipping the Boost Ball

Skipping Space Jump

Early Missile Expansions

Early Energy Tanks

Speed Tricks

Boss Tricks

Version Differences

Secret Worlds

Other

 

Fastest Times Ranking and Sequence Breaking Discussion, V7.0

Archived by

Xin

From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/28/2004 8:05:24 AM
First off, a no sj game is still being worked on but no progress is done on Geo yet, 1 > 2 is still the problem.

To sum up v6, there are only 3 rooms left in a 21% game.

P.edge w/o Grapple
Great Tree Hall w/o spider
Geo w/o grapple/spider/boost

P.edge is close. We just need people to work on getting on the tree..from there I am sure bomb jumps can get to the plasma door.

Great Tree Hall has somethings that look promising. You can get on the horizontal part of the spider track by dashing, and on the track, there are invisible ledges. There is also a part where the track meets the wall where you can get stuck and hover, but as of right now, the only way of getting to it is with sj..so if someone can get stuck there without, then GTH is solved.

Geo w/o grapple... It looks like you can do a 3bjm off of the puddle spore...a dbjm almost gets enough height, so a 3bjm would definitely get it...

For skipping spider. zoidi was able to get up spinner 3 by dbj onto the slanted part, and doing a wall tbj up. For the rest? a ghetto wall tbjm, or ghetto 3bjm should get on the first block. a wall tbj (or even a dbj) should get to the next block. From there a ladder dbjm might make it to the door. the problem is can you unmorph? not sure..can you make that distance? not sure.

As for skipping boost? bah...we need a miracle...if..and I mean if you can do some sort of crazy bomb jump from 2 > 3, we still need to make it to the bomb slot. The only thing I see possible is somehow raising spinning 1 and 2 without boost...if someone can do that, I will lub you long time *wink*wink*

---------------------------

HIGH SCORES

Any %: Normal
1. Radix37 1:19 (32%)
2. kip 1:23 (33%)
3. z0idi 1:33 (38%) {{{PAL}}}
4. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
5. Andrew Mills 1:49 (52%) {{{PAL}}}

Any %: Hard
1. Radix37 1:45 (33%)
2. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
3. Andrew Mills 2:35 (47%) {{{PAL}}}
4. {{{PAL}}}
5. {{{PAL}}}

Low %: Normal
1. TreborSelbon 2:20 (22%)
2. TreborSelbon 1:38 (23%)
3. gamecubeman27 2:29 (23%)
4. Andrew Mills 3:39 (23%) {{{PAL}}}
5. JDAdams 7:54 (24%) {{{PAL}}}

Low %: Hard
1. TreborSelbon 3:10 (23%)
2. kip 4:00 (24%)
3. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
4. {{{PAL}}}
5. {{{PAL}}}

100%: Normal
1. Radix37 1:37
2. njahnke 1:50
3. LeCoureur103 2:14
4. Andrew Mills 3:10 {{{PAL}}}
5. Madzombie 3:56 {{{PAL}}}

100%: Hard
1. Radix37 1:58
2. Tzyr 2:48
3. CAL Foolio 2:49
4. {{{PAL}}}
5. {{{PAL}}}

Single-Segment 100%: Normal
1. Radix37 1:59
2. njahnke 2:41 {{{Natural Route}}}

Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
A scientifically calculated handicap of 0:04.67 is added to PAL Frigate Escape Times.
1. kip 4:26.00
2. TRH 0313 4:24.23 {{{PAL 4:19.56}}}
3. Radix37 4:22.90
4. njahnke 4:20.83
5. CAL Foolio 4:20.65

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/28/2004 8:08:36 AM
Sequence Breaking is the act of obtaining items in Metroid Prime out of order or of skipping said items entirely.

Our goal is to push the game as far as we can by getting the lowest possible percent of item pickups, by beating the game as quickly as possible, and by beating the game as quickly as possible with all items (100% pickups).

For further information on Sequence Breaking (including a complete list of what is currently possible), please visit:
http://www.metroid2002.com/

Currently in progress are several Speed Runs, our attempt to skip the Space Jump Boots (though not yet with the goal of lowering the minimal percent), and a secret plan I'm working on that will greatly benefit the entire community.

RULES FOR HIGH SCORE SUBMISSION (It's as easy as one, two, three! :P)

[1] Check that your time is faster than at least one time on the official scoreboard (available here and on Metroid 2002 at http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_runs.html).

[2] If this is your first submission in that category, you will need to present complete video evidence of your Speed Run/Low Percent Game/Frigate Escape. For example, if you are presenting a Low Percent time, even if one of your Frigate Escape times has already been accepted, you will need to present the complete video of your Low Percent run. It is fairly easy to record your playing using a standard VHS VCR. If you are unable to transfer the video to your computer, I can do it for you. Contact me at nate@metroid2002.com and we can make arrangements for me to receive your video.

[3] Even if you are already "trusted" in a category, you are encouraged to record your subsequent runs and/or share your route and any special techniques you use with this topic.

The Sequence Breakers reserve the right to question any time we deem unrealistic.
---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: koholint takeout | Posted: 1/28/2004 8:38:04 AM
I love this.
---
The Chicken Coup (A Toki Tori Fansite) - personal.bgsu.edu/~jmckinn/tokitori
From: fledertier | Posted: 1/28/2004 10:00:28 AM
I just began to view the 100% speed run by radix . Hell it's great. Very impressive!
---
"the black knight always triumphs!" ;)
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/28/2004 10:15:21 AM
Phendrana's Edge without Grapple shouldn't be that big of a problem. We just need some fancy jumping (or a clipping bug). Geo will drive us all insane, so can you tell me, can you get to the part where the ceiling raises yet?
---
So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 1/28/2004 10:36:10 AM
If you think Radix's run is impressive, try starting one of your own sequence breaking/speed runs (I'm at 9% in 19 minutes :-( gotta get faster!). Then watch Radix's vids and the feeling is one of awe, mixed with a vague dread that it will take HOURS of practice to even get a run under 3 hours, let alone 2 hours.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: D3tje | Posted: 1/28/2004 12:15:23 PM
Anyone have tips for Omega Pirate on Hard during a minimum % run (NTSC)? He is kicking my ass :(

I remember something about not damaging him too much while he is regenerating, because then he summons another wave of troopers. I can't find this anywhere though.

---
Videogame Music Midi Challenge - Hear a tune, guess the game
http://yamauchi.selwerd.nl/~d3/midigame
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/28/2004 1:04:23 PM
best way to kill OP on hard, or on low % is using PB.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/OP_1_round.mp4

That is done in normal, but PB do the same amount of damage on hard as they do on normal. If you dun believe me:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/OP_hard_1_round.mp4

I showed the first link because that is the best way of killing him..Radix gave me the idea after I did the second one. Also, I killed OP without using boost so that shows you do have some time to do it.

You have to control the pools OP goes to and use that as your advantage. If you do not know this already, there are 2 things you must know about OP and him regenerating in the pools. The first is he will not go to a pool you are near, and the second is he will not go to the same pool twice in a row.

The first pool is easy. Stand between the two pools closest to the entrance and that will force him to go in "his" pool, as in the one he was in when you entered the room.

As soon as you hear him recharging (about 6 seconds after his third and final laugh), boost over, or roll if you do not have boost, to his pool and lay a pb just before his pool (if you lay it too close to him, it will just knock him around and he will instantly be done recharging..not only that but it will do little to no damage to him).

Unmorph and switch to x-ray.

Jump to the pool just beside the elevator, though you can go to the other pool if you wish..I just found that when you are doing the next pool, the troopers seem to land right ontop of you and knock you around.

Wait 2 seconds after you hear him disapear, lay a pb, then boost or roll over to the third pool. What you are doing is tricking him for you are near the third pool when the game decides what pool OP should be near, but since you layed a PB at the other pool, it will hit OP.

After the pb hits him, unmorph and this is the hard part. Before he disapears, troopers will come, so you have to make sure you do not take that much damage, and also make sure they do not knock you too far away from the pool. After 1-2 seconds lay the third pb and boost over to "his" pool. This will again trick him and when you unmorph, it should kill him.

Good luck.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: D3tje | Posted: 1/28/2004 2:04:45 PM
Those vids and explanation are insanely helpful Tzyr, thanks a lot. Being able to beat him in a single round is just what I needed. I hope I'll be able to beat him with some practice, thanks again!

PS is this posted in a faq or on metroid2002.com somewhere? If not it should be!

---
Videogame Music Midi Challenge - Hear a tune, guess the game
http://yamauchi.selwerd.nl/~d3/midigame
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 1/28/2004 2:34:18 PM
yay, part7 =D

---
marth1, TreborSelbon, and kip are gods XD
From: StylishSaiyamanXin | Posted: 1/28/2004 3:12:40 PM
PS is this posted in a faq or on metroid2002.com somewhere? If not it should be!

Which thing?
---
Is N10sb2002
From: Grub55 | Posted: 1/28/2004 5:50:41 PM
I think DT3je is talking about Tzyr's almighty Omega Pirate tips.

on a side note, I am really impressed by all of you sequence breakers.

Keep up the phenomenal work!

---
Oh come on now, do you honestly think that custom can fly faster than Jesus? Using Jesus on Aeropolis: Multiplex is worth the cost of the game alone. Eon Blue
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/28/2004 7:05:06 PM
W00t! V7! One of these days I am going to start my own 23% game. Maybe 22%! I'd say the good date would be Feb. 14th, because that is my last day at work! Yay! So then I will have loads of free time. Hopefully, people will keep working on 21%!
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/28/2004 7:18:30 PM
so.. from what I can see, the ONLY thing hindering us from a no-space jump game but WITH grapple, spider, and boost are the jumps from spinners to spinners... which ones exactly are hindering us?

as for w/o boost, assuming we can get on the spinners no problem themselves, there may be a way to raise the other two spinners. anyone here who has contributed to the geo no boost dilemna knows that both of the "unraiseable" spinners in geo core CAN be raised, but only part way. From what I've seen in Life Grove, turning a spinner mostly involves tricking the game into allowing the morph ball to spin freely in the spinner, hence spinning it. and after reviewing Life Grove and Geo, I see no reason why we can't A) somehow trick the game into raising the 3 geo spinners, OR B) come up with a way to do a "geo core dance" similar to the Life Grove Dance.

finding the sequence of "steps" in the dance, though, would be very hard. Perhaps we could dash jump from the top of spinner 3 (or is it 2? arg I don't care >_<) near the bomb slot, but instead aim to bounce somewhere off the pole and then fall (as much as possible) directly to the spinner as possible, and go in in a way that will allow the game to raise the spinner.

I'd say taht this is DEFINITELY worth investigating. If it works, whoopty-do I'm a hero for helping solve geo core and you're showered in even more praise, and if it doesn't, we're AT LEAST back where we were before, if not having made some other discoveries.

and I'm sorry if my claims about Life Grove seem like a lie at all, because you have no idea how much I want to make a video :( but the truth is I play on a TV in my room taht doesn't have a VCR hooked up to it, and a camcorder won't work, I don't have webcam, and I don't even know if we have a working device anywhere in the house taht could POSSIBLY record it :( and even if I did, I dunno how to hook it up to my computer. Last thing: don't go bugging me about buying a VCR >_> I'm 14 years old and my parents don't like to spend money as much as I do :/
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
SUMMARY: there may be a way to activate the 'other' spinners in geo w/o boost and I can't make vids of life grove because I suck ass.
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/28/2004 7:29:25 PM
Wow, V7 already. Nice to see this topic is still rolling along. Good work on the no-sj game, I'm sure with the incredible persistence you guys have that you will make it :)
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/28/2004 8:01:24 PM
You can get a webcam at Best Buy for 10 bucks.
---
So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/28/2004 8:26:10 PM
well... er... >_> <_<

*runs*

so has someone confirmed life grove w/o boost and life grove dance? or on not first try?
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: D3tje | Posted: 1/29/2004 12:01:06 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: D3tje | Posted: 1/29/2004 12:02:43 PM
Woohoo I did it! Beat OP on hard w/ minimum items, thanks to Tzyr's helpful tips. It took 2 rounds though, since I botched up the second PB attack :P

On to Meta-Ridley and Metroid Prime!

StylishSaiyamanXin: like Grub55 said, I meant Tzyr's OP strategy.
---
Videogame Music Midi Challenge - Hear a tune, guess the game
http://yamauchi.selwerd.nl/~d3/midigame
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 1/29/2004 2:24:21 PM
If I can Dash Jump right into the wall LEFT of the ship, am I doing the jumping right? I seem to need more height to get up on the RIGHT side (the correct side) :(
From: D3tje | Posted: 1/29/2004 3:54:53 PM
Yay! Finished my minimum percentage run on Hard (only a rather high 26% though). Meta-Ridley was quite easy, Metroid Prime just takes soooo loooong. I beat him with 8 energy left :P The whole fight took me 33 minutes, jeez.

Btw do you guys know you can lock the Phazon Core Fission Metroids in the adjacent rooms (probably)? Nice for a stress free ascent to MP's lair :)
---
Videogame Music Midi Challenge - Hear a tune, guess the game
http://yamauchi.selwerd.nl/~d3/midigame
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/29/2004 4:34:22 PM
I MIGHT HAVE FOUND SOMETHING!

Something to improve jumping heigth and lenght, that is. Ever notice the slight hesitation in the center redicule while wearing the Thermal or X-Ray visors (particularly in the x-ray)? When you jump, Samus tilts her head forward in a nodding fashon. This causes her to lose height (not sure about length yet). If you hold L at the top of her jump, and let go when she hits the ground, you will also notice that she looks up a bit {This is so slight of a change that it didn't affect my tests much at all}.

Anyway, to fix this error, charge up your beam weapon and jump. There will be no hesitation. To prove that this works, go to the landing site (other areas work too) and pull out the combat visor. Stand near the ship and look straight out (no R). Hold L and do a jump (regular, it is harder to notice with space). Note the part of the wall on the top left (or right) corner of the screen at the peak of the jump. Now hold L again and charge up a blast. Jump again, noting the part of the wall.

If you do this correctly, you will notice a small gain in the height of your jump. Try doing it at different a different wall to see it better if you can't tell the difference.

This actually works, so try it! It will probably help a little bit more if you use it while performing an L-lock spring jump. I know that the Charge beam has already been skipped, but maybe we can get the percentage down lower if we switch around the items we skip. If this helps beat Geo without space, boost, spider, and grapple, then maybe we can use this trick to help skip other junk.

Just thought I might let you in on this. I need to do more tests, but it seems to be working!
---
So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/29/2004 4:35:03 PM
Sorry 'bout the massive post. ^_^
---
So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 1/30/2004 1:11:09 AM
Escape: 4:23.38

Got that in a scrapped run. Oh well...can't win them all.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/30/2004 1:18:14 AM
Well good news for 21%. mytheral was able to get to the tree in p.edge without sj. mytheral said he tried getting the dash without the pirates, but with no luck..so last resort, we have to get to the tree using the pirates.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/P.edge_-_to_the_tree_no_sj.wmv

This means there are only two more jumps needed. Getting from the tree to the snow edge, and from the second floating platform to the plasma door. If you use bomb jumps, having sj is allowed for at least it gives us an idea of what needs to be done.

One more room almost solved!

This still leaves GTH (to x-ray) and Geo...but at least this is closer.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/30/2004 10:53:29 AM
Cool, but maybe we need to kill one of the pirates before we do the trick and have the Ice Beam out while doing it. Or, we could freeze it, then do the dash-jump.
---
So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 1/30/2004 11:57:29 AM
New frigate escape time, 4:21:12

http://www.metroid2002.com/trh/21_12_finalpart.MOV
http://www.metroid2002.com/trh/4_21_12.JPG
---
.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/30/2004 12:53:32 PM
Frigate: 4:22.32. Got this a few days ago but didn't post it.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/30/2004 3:09:29 PM
Kip has a :10 gathering hall. Expect a vid soon.
---
"Try varying the timing as you drop Bombs to reach even greater heights." - Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 1/30/2004 3:14:57 PM
"Kip has a :10 gathering hall. Expect a vid soon."

As in, frigate done, SJ boots, missiles, morph ball, charge beam, and bombs in 10 minutes??? Surely that's not what you mean? And if you do, ohmygod... that is something I will need to see.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/30/2004 4:48:12 PM
As in, frigate done, SJ boots, missiles, morph ball, charge beam, and bombs in 10 minutes???

Yeah, the save just before flaahgra. Keep in mind it is better to say he did it less then 11 minutes for the game only shows the minute and does not round up.

Anyway, kip is crazy and it will be a great run. Would be awesome to get :59 eh? but that is out of the question unfortunately..unless there is something huge we are missing.

Hopefully he gets better though, he has not b een feeling well :(

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Jish | Posted: 1/30/2004 5:32:12 PM
I have a little question about the 22% game. I beat my 23% game a few weeks ago, and although it was difficult, I now know how to do it and I could probably do it again. My question is, is the 22% game really that much harder? The only rooms I can think of that are effected by the Boost Ball that much are Vent Shaft, Life Grove, and the biggie, Geothermal Core. I've heard that only one person has ever completed it, is that true? If so, I doubt I'd be able to pull it off.

On another note, good luck with the 21% game. I bet there is a way to do Geo, because you could do the dance like in Life Grove, but its not definate of course. I don't think I can contribute anything, I am terrible at specialised bomb jumps, especially ladders. If it ever is solved, then I won't even bother.
---
"I am a delicate daisy, and my gorilla's all atwitter! My shoulder has an itch that catches fire in the winter!" -DarkJon12
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/30/2004 5:35:06 PM
My question is, is the 22% game really that much harder?

Yes :-(

The only rooms I can think of that are effected by the Boost Ball that much are Vent Shaft, Life Grove, and the biggie, Geothermal Core.

Correct, but also life grove tunnel and ruined shrine.

I've heard that only one person has ever completed it, is that true?

Yes ... Trebor, the low % god.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/30/2004 5:45:26 PM
does kip have vids anywhere of taht run? or is he just going to wait till everything is done?
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/30/2004 5:52:46 PM
Version 7... w00t!

Apparently, Tzyr missed my post in the previous topic. Therefore:

NTSC Any% Normal = 1:32 (39%)

Was it not accepted because I have no videos? Sorry, but I just CAN'T. I'm hoping, however, that my time will be accepted on the basis that greater speed-runners than I have had greater times than that (so it's not a totally outrageous time or anything), and that I have been a willing contributor to sequence breaking for a couple of months. Hopefully, that has not gone unnoticed.

Anyway... I've begun another 100% Normal run, with the hopes of smashing Nate's 1:50. Currently at Burning Trail at 17 minutes - last time, I was there at 20.

Keep up the good work, everyone!
From: ChaffReaper | Posted: 1/30/2004 7:12:25 PM
Noooo...I was starting a new run, to break your 2:14.... :(
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/30/2004 7:18:05 PM
Sorry, but I just CAN'T

You don't have access to a simple VCR, 20+ year old technology? come on!
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: orihalchon dragoon | Posted: 1/30/2004 9:00:21 PM
whats this "dance"? and what items do we skip to get 23/22% (sorry for such a n00bish question, I just got into seq. breaking a week ago, and its awesome fun)...

and could someone provide me with some techniques for difficult rooms to get past?
---
This game is tough! i cant get past the part where you push start! O_o
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/30/2004 10:06:52 PM
Access to a VCR? Sure, who doesn't? But I wouldn't know how to even go about recording it, then putting it on the 'net or anything. Lots of newfangled cables and whatnot... bah. Yeah I could buy them and read stuff on what to do exactly, but that sounds like on awful lot of trouble for a person to go to just to prove that he did something on a video game that no one will be playing in a few years... to a bunch of people he's never met, no less.

And besides, it's not like I whipped out a world-record or anything! It's mediocre! And who would have the patience to sit through a bunch of movies of me playing in my mediocre fashion, just to verify it?? Heck, someone will break my 1:32 in a week or two, just watch!

In conclusion, it'd all be pretty pointless for me to go to the trouble of making movies. So let's go with the honor system, okay? =P

Moving right along... ChaffReaper, lol. If you want to get on the high score list, you should play on Hard Mode. It doesn't seem like anyone wants to bother with those anymore.

Update on my speed run: saved at Burning Trail (for a second time) at roughly 25:40. Nate will fall! ... but not Radix.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/30/2004 10:23:06 PM
well, GTH dbj in a speed run, ie first or second try W/O boosting into the water ( >_> ) I've learned is a *****. I have a feeling I'm going to be stuck here for awhile <_< and for whatever reason, probably because I'm going slow at points, I don't really 'feel' myself going fast... at all... esp lately in the Phazon Labs. arg I hate this section :(

and if anyone cares, you can tbj up the spiderball track in main quarry instead of l-lock spring if you suck at thost kind of jumps like I do >_> <_< I keep falling down trying to cross the gap in ore processing to get the grapple beam -_-
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/30/2004 10:27:36 PM
sorry for such a n00bish question

Your no n00b. A n00b is a wanna-be-troll. You are a newb. A newb is some1 new to something.

Also, I'm doing a low percent run, and I want to know, how the heck do you guys do the Sun Tower trick!?!? I've killed Flaahgra several times (lost count) and I just cant get the timing!

But seriously, if only one person has been able to do a 22%, logically, only that person will be able to do a 21%. And, you do need some things to beat the game, and I think that it is near time to stop lowering the %. After SJ (if it ever is skipped), I think the end has come.

It's sad to think about, but s.breaking may be dying. Hopefully we can do some neat stuff in MP2, though.

And no one has replied to my message yet...
---
So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/30/2004 10:39:34 PM
LeCoureur103: recording with a vcr is simple. You simply take the red/yellow/white cables from the gamecube and put them into your vcr's input instead of your tv's. Then turn your tv to channel 3/4 instead of 'input'. Put a tape in and hit record... there's no need to rewind after every screw up, just after an hour or so of messing up. You can get 8+ hours on a tape if you don't care about quality, and if you're only aiming for 2nd place that's good enough. And it IS worth watching, if you beat nate :-)
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: kip | Posted: 1/30/2004 11:07:21 PM
bleh i could do 22% if i want, but i couldn't care less right now (supposed to be doing this any% run). trebor already confirmed it so i don't see what the point is, and he's recording another one now too. the cool thing is, it will also be able to serve as a visual walkthrough of 22%.

it's funny because i had decided i wanted to wait until 22% before doing another low% run, when 23% happened. but now that 22% is here, i'm not actually interested for some reason and want to wait for 21% which doesn't have a high chance of happening.

true, though, it's hard to see how another drop in the % would even work after space jump... and getting a main item earlier than it's gotten already is unheard of these days; beam doors and bendezium block everything because we've gotten around everything else. speed run finds will likely go on forever though.

as for that gathering hall stuff... the vids of this run are being uploaded to my directory as i finish them, but they are just poorly labeled. the first segment is "04_landing", "space_jump" is the next, and "part3_chozo" is the last one i have so far. i can't guarantee i'll finish it, but feel free to watch what i have.
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 1/31/2004 11:58:49 AM
haven't been here in a while (sence November maybe), so can someone tell me what i've missed? and what is the Single-Segment 100%?
---
GameFAQs official rating: BU-13
Banninated if Under 13.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/31/2004 1:11:43 PM
A non-saving run, through the whole game, getting 100% in one setting.
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/31/2004 1:17:26 PM
it's down until tomorrow is what it is. ;)
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/31/2004 4:11:46 PM
Hmm... recording doesn't sound as difficult as I imagined it would be. But I still wouldn't want to go to the trouble of recording the entire thing. Maybe a screen shot of the file select screen (to see my time at Impact Crater) and a short clip that shows the "Mission Final" screen? Oh, and Radix: when the tape is made, how would I go about getting it into 'net form?

A couple questions for kip:

1. Were you saved at Landing Site at :04 before Space Jump? For your :10 Gathering Hall save, I mean.
2. I've got a question about the "spider-less" route in your directory on m2k2. The list of items goes straight from Artifact of Elder (Control Tower) to Artifact of Sun (Ice Temple)... how do you plan on doing this? You can't go through the labs because of the forcefield in Hydra Lab, and you can't go through Thardus' room for several reasons.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/31/2004 4:25:29 PM
Maybe a screen shot of the file select screen (to see my time at Impact Crater) and a short clip that shows the "Mission Final" screen?

Not enough, sorry :-\

Oh, and Radix: when the tape is made, how would I go about getting it into 'net form?

You stick it in a bubble mailer, put some postage on it and write "net" on the address label.... or maybe nate's address.

1. Were you saved at Landing Site at :04 before Space Jump? For your :10 Gathering Hall save, I mean.

Yes he was.

how do you plan on doing this?

Go back to Magmoor and go through geo core.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Sneal | Posted: 1/31/2004 4:32:20 PM
...
i just got into s. breaking, so could i have some help? is it possible to get Spider Ball without Super Missile? i'm not sure how...
---
Felicitations, malfactors! I am endeavoring to misappropriate the formulary of affordable comesticables. Who will join me?
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/31/2004 5:14:26 PM
yeah, but you have to go through twin fires tunnel, through geo core (get plasma while you're there! its easy w/o spider and grapple, but don't forget to bring the ice beam) and take the elevator to phendrana from the place on the very end of magmoor... I think the place is "magmoor workstation". You can also come from the Phazon mines because there is another elevator attatched to magmoor workstation, but that's a bit harder. anyway, go to the lift to phendrana, and you're in the transport room taht's 2 rooms away from thardus, the one w/ the spiderball track taht you normally have to use the spiderball to get up (but you don't need to have it...). just go through the non-ice door, and through the next room, and you're in quarantine cave. you have to run over to the edge of the cave near where you were supposed to come in, though, because thardus doesn't wake up unless you do. I've even climbed on him w/o waking him up -_-
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Sneal | Posted: 1/31/2004 8:11:01 PM
:) i've been going through twin fires tunnel and getting plasma like that for almost a week. I just had heard rumors that Thardus doesn't wake up if you come through the back way, but you say he does? Thank you very much,sir, you just made my life a whole lot easier....
---
Felicitations, malfactors! I am endeavoring to misappropriate the formulary of affordable comesticables. Who will join me?
From: Jish | Posted: 1/31/2004 8:51:38 PM
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but the 22% game intrigues me. Has anyone actually tried to do it besides Trebor? If they have, and failed then I likely won't bother, but I'd like to be the second person to ever do it. I would consider that to be a landmark, to me anyway. What exactly makes it so hard? I'd imagine that if you aren't in a rush the Vent shaft wouldn't be so bad, same with Life Grove Tunnel or Ruined shrine, and as for Life Grove and Geo Core, well, it would take patience, that's for sure. I don't care about time.

I know kip has done the Geothermal Jump™, as I have the movie of him doing it. I've heard others have too. If you miss the jump do you have to restart, or can you climb back up? If it is the latter, then I can't imagine why it is so bad, even if it takes 100 tries. As for the Life Grove dance, if only there was a video of it, then it would be infinitely easier. I remember hearing others have done it though. Anyone who has anything to say about this, please tell me.
---
"I am a delicate daisy, and my gorilla's all atwitter! My shoulder has an itch that catches fire in the winter!" -DarkJon12
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/31/2004 9:31:57 PM
Thanks for the info, Radix. Two more Q's:

1. Why would the screenshot and short movie not be enough proof?

2. So kip's route goes from the middle of the labs, to the far side of Magmoor, to the front of Phendrana, and back out the front? I knew that was a possibility, but that many extra rooms kind of defeats the purpose of avoiding the Spider Ball in the first place...

Some 21% news: for those who refuse to learn the half-pipe bomb jump, you can still get the Artifact of Lifegiver from the Tower of Light! Here is how I did it.

1. Go to Ruined Shrine and hop down to the main floor. Preferably, kill the beetle.

2. Out of the left wall grows a large V-shaped tree. Do a double-bomb-jump-morph to the left part of the V.

3. Turn so that you are staring along the wall in the direction of the half-pipe. Jump along the wall, and you should land on a small invisible ledge on the edge of the big structure thingie.

4. Turn back around and look up. You'll see the branch that is normally used for the no-boost method to get up the half-pipe. It is possible to do a single jump up to this branch, but fairly difficult. It helps if you aim for the end of it that is farthest from the wall.

5. Here's the tricky part... on the branch, you must morph and do a dbjm up to the top of the half-pipe. As you might have guessed, it is not an easy thing to balance on. You'll probably fall off many times trying to do this. Tip: stay at the tip of the branch... if not, you'll end up bombing into the underside of the big ledge.

There you go. You've just circumvented the stupid half-pipe. From here's it's a simple dash jump to the wave door.

Now I have to find a way around the Crossway =P
From: Seiken Menose | Posted: 1/31/2004 10:47:14 PM
Hello, I have been very interested in all of your amazing sequence breaking achievements and was hovering around when 23% was founded. No sooner than I finished my hard 23% you dropped it to 22%. Now that you are trying for 21% I think I'll wait and (hopefully) find some way to contribute. I have a few questions:

1.) Does having charge beam and extra energy/missiles/power bombs effect you in anyway?

2.) Is Omega completely impossible w/o x-ray? Has he been tried a huge amount of times. I would like to see if there is anyway to defeat him but if it is a lost cause I won't bother. (I do have a file at the save before him, but I haven't attempted him much)

3.) I have just gotten wave beam in my pseudo 21% run (I got charge and extra energy/missiles hence question one) and am having problems getting Ice. I went to the room with the half-pipe (forget name) that has all the chozo lore on the wall and can't quite make it. Any suggestions?

4.) Any suggestion for triple bomb jumping, I really suck at it and it takes me forever to pull off =(

Also, my computer is really ****ed up right now so I can't watch any videos =(
Keep up the excellent work and here's to hoping Prime 2 and Zero Mission as this many sequence breaking possibilities =)
---
"And it was something we all had to bear as it was a condition of purchasing Metroid Fusion."-Platinum Dragoon on Samus' dislike for Adam's orders.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 2/1/2004 12:20:57 AM
Jish: A 22% game is extremely difficult mainly because of Vent Shaft and Geo Core. I've been trying to do a 22% game for about two months now, and I've been stuck at Geo Core for about the past month. I think others have tried it as well but got stuck at Vent Shaft. While Vent Shaft is extremely difficult, the more you play it, the better you become at the bomb jump. It took me about 10 hours to first do it, but I died at PPC because of nerves (argh). But after that, it only took me an hour to get it again, and I was able to make it out of the mines. The actual bomb jump isn't hard to learn, but getting enough height to make it out of the halfpipe is insanely hard. I'm pretty sure only two other people (kip and Trebor) have done it, and I'm also pretty sure I'm the only one to have done it twice (somebody correct me if I'm wrong about this).

Geo Core is basically a one in a million shot. As far as I know, only Trebor has been able to do this trick (although, as you mentioned, kip did the jump, he used a different dash jump to get it that normally requires the boost ball). If you fail to make the dash into the slot, you can just try again, but keep in mind you have to do the jump from 2<3, which is by no means easy. And if you mess up that jump, you fall into the lava. With only 99 energy, you do the math. I have been able to get stuck, as many others have, on the pillar many times, but it's always been too low. I have had two instances where I got stuck high enough that I could have been sucked into the slot, but wasn't. It just takes an insane amount of luck, that's all.

Life Grove really isn't so hard. I've done it three times on a separate practice file now, and I haven't even tried all that much (I also did it before seeing a vid of it). Life Grove Tunnel is also really easy, as long as you know how to bomb ladder.

If you want to try a 22% game, by all means go for it. I'm not trying to discourage you or anything, I'm just warning you about it ;) As long as you can get past Vent Shaft and Geo Core, it's all downhill. Although, when you think about it, you still have to get Artifact of Warrior, make it through the mines, fight OP, Meta Ridley, and Metroid Prime, so really it's still pretty tough, but compared to what you'll have gone through with Vent Shaft and Geo, it should seem easy.
From: kip | Posted: 2/1/2004 4:40:23 AM
"So kip's route goes from the middle of the labs, to the far side of Magmoor, to the front of Phendrana, and back out the front? I knew that was a possibility, but that many extra rooms kind of defeats the purpose of avoiding the Spider Ball in the first place..."

yeah, i don't think we know yet if it's worth it to drop spider. what i am supposed to do in this run is split it into two routes after ice, one will be the "standard" route that i went in 1:23 with a few changes, the other will be no spider. and then whichever one has the lower time at the ship before ridley is the faster route.

and great find in ruined shrine.

"As for the Life Grove dance, if only there was a video of it, then it would be infinitely easier."

a vid does exist:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/Trebor_Life_Grove_No_Boost.avi

i think i have more vids of it somewhere, but they all do the same thing basically, so they probably won't help much unless you want to see multiple unique attempts.
From: darkdavid | Posted: 2/1/2004 5:20:16 AM
GameCube04, I have also accomplished the Vent Shaft bomb jump, but like you got stuck at Geo Core for months. I evetually got sick of it and deleted the file after hundreds of failed attempts.
---
If at first you don't succeed, you're a failure and a disgrace to humanity.
From: kip | Posted: 2/1/2004 5:26:15 AM
"Is Omega completely impossible w/o x-ray? Has he been tried a huge amount of times. I would like to see if there is anyway to defeat him but if it is a lost cause I won't bother."

he can't be damaged unless you have x-ray on at the moment of impact, although it might be worth noting that i once used the wavebuster to continue damaging him even after i took off x-ray (had to have it on to start it). of course, this is meaningless for low % but i mention it anyway.

i don't think i would say that it's a complete lost cause because you never know, there could be some bizarre glitch that kills him instantly or who knows what. it's just that nothing that has been tried worked so far, and it feels like everything has been tried.

early last year, people tried having scan visor on when hitting him with a power bomb, but that didn't work. i'm not sure if they were actually scanning him when he was hit by it (would it even matter?).

finding a way to get newborn without the phazon suit and with 99 energy might be a better pursuit; if that was done you might be able to finish the game, people have said before they've gotten prime to take damage without the phazon beam, just there is no vid or understanding of how to do it.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 2/1/2004 9:49:07 AM
and then whichever one has the lower time at the ship before ridley is the faster route.

I know exactly what you mean. See, when I'm coming up with routes, I simply count the number of rooms. I start at the save room by Reflecting Pool (since everything is standard up until the Ice Beam), and end with the Landing Site before Ridley. I count as if it were a single-segment run, i.e. no going out of the way for save rooms. If you use an elevator, it is two rooms. If you just run through the elevator room, it is one.

For instance, my 1:32 route was 187 rooms from the Reflecting Pool save to the Landing Site. Your 1:23 route was 191 rooms - but you saved a LOT less than I did (and also played a lot better than me, I would imagine). 187 is still the best that I can come up with, but that includes the Spider ball. Truly, the Any% problem is a difficult one.
From: Eternal Neo | Posted: 2/1/2004 1:26:42 PM
Even if we can get the artifact of newborn without phazon suit, we still need it for the final boss, so we still have to beat OP.

I do think that there could be some glitch which makes OP possible without X-Ray, though. It would probably be totally difficult to do, though.
---
Shut up, Neo!
Nobody cares what you think!
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 2/1/2004 2:41:43 PM
Well, this morning I FINALLY made the GTH DBJ!!! I couldn't believe when I actually got through. (Of course, I boosted all the way down to the bottom and had to climb back up...) Thanks to everyone on different boards who has given me advice on this trick.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 2/1/2004 2:42:15 PM
I just had a revelation! If we skip OP altogether, and find a way to get the artifact of Newborn with only 99 health, we might find a secret to killing MP without Phazon Beam. But that may be harder...
---
So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: Eternal Neo | Posted: 2/1/2004 3:02:18 PM
I just had a revelation! If we skip OP altogether, and find a way to get the artifact of Newborn with only 99 health, we might find a secret to killing MP without Phazon Beam. But that may be harder...

That seems less realistic than OP without X-ray. A glitch to damge OP without X-ray doesn't seem that absurd to me. Him cloaking and calling troopers are both caused by 'triggers' which we can cancel. Maybe there's an X-ray trigger that we can also somehow cancel?
---
Shut up, Neo!
Nobody cares what you think!
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/1/2004 3:06:47 PM
well, unless we use some sort of secret world to access the artifact quickly and get out w/o taking too much damage, newborn w/o 12 tanks and gravity may be impossible. but on the other hand, there are several places in the mines with scenery that you normally aren't "supposed" to be able to get to, so if a SW is found there, it just MIGHT be possible to wall crawl all the way to the artifact, slip in and get it and then out, and then get back in the regular world somehow... if we could get all the way to omega pirate, then that cutscene would put us back in, but I dunno SW stuff too well, so :/

and one more thing: I have a lame speed run going right now (working on the segment to central dynamo, a couple done but I'm still looking to see if I can cut off some more time before accepting a run), and if I somehow manage to get a VCR and record just the remaining segments, would that be good enough? or if I record the first segments, but on a different file just to see that I CAN do it reasonably quickly, then is that o.k? Not that anyone would care about it >_> ---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: BoostR | Posted: 2/1/2004 4:32:36 PM
if we could get all the way to omega pirate, then that cutscene would put us back in, but I dunno SW stuff too well, so :/


And the door(s?) would lock and you'd be stuck...
Maybe if we could find a way up OP's room, but the door there would probably be locked. I think an invisible ceiling is present when you fight him-one that you can't see or shoot, but you still get stopped by. :(
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/1/2004 4:36:14 PM
you wouldn't be stuck.. I think wouldn't you just be put back into the game as normal because of the cutscene?

-
-
-
-
--
-
-
wait, the goal was to skip omega pirate.. damn >_< well, maybe you could activate the missle station mines cutscene in fungal hall?
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Link05 | Posted: 2/1/2004 5:02:09 PM
Frigate escape time 4.20.54
-my first time above twenty so I thought I'd post :)
---
I'm the Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 2/1/2004 5:34:11 PM
An extremely awesome new Flaahgra trick was found by kip.
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/genius_flaahgra.avi
Just watch the video and see what it is. Here are the reactions from the IRC channel as well: http://www.metroid2002.com/kip-omg.txt
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/1/2004 5:36:27 PM
ug.. I think I solved the mystery behind life grove w/o boost, but I don't like the results I got from it...

it appears to be triggered when you get artificial spin in the spinner, and it happens when you roll up the corner in the lip... arg I need to make a vid.. anyway you roll up the edge of the thing that... ok here:

-------------/-\
-------------\_/

there's the spinner.

roll up here:

-------------/-\
-------------\_/
............^
............^

but at an angle into the spinner... I think that's what's causing it to work. but I don't see how we can apply this to geo core, as I hoped ;_;
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 2/1/2004 5:44:41 PM
Hmmm, can you explain how the Flaahgra trick works? I need more time to download it.
---
Winnie the Pooh is actually short for Winnifred the Poop.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: kip | Posted: 2/1/2004 6:03:05 PM
in the channel, i think andrew mentioned something like this was actually found by ctrlaltdestroy2 before? even so, it's over 25 seconds of time saved, so it's great for speed runs (also seems to blur the time difference between normal and hard even more).
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/1/2004 11:28:53 PM
o_O @ the flaahgra vid-

if it were that easy to activate any bomb slot, geo no boost would be a joke ~_~

also, I checked out what prime would be like w/o the phazon suit, and all I can say is that it will take a VERY unusual glitch and/or trick to get prime to take damage w/o the Phazon Beam. I must've spent 30 minutes blasting it with every last weapon I had before I said screw that >_> I had AR on, so I even sat there for about 2-3 minutes with an uninterupted wavebuster going the whole time. I also tried freezing and blasting the walls around prime with the ice spreader and super missles to see if that could somehow inflict damage. I even went as far as to do a double bomb jump ---> lay a power bomb at the peak right on top of prime as it was changing visibility. I used everything. I also found out that in the fight, while the phazon around prime's old remains hurts you, the super concentrated phazon doesn't o_O unless prime sets a puddle on top of the old phazon. If there is a way to damage prime w/o the beam, I'm guessing it involves some trickery with perhaps the scan visor (I didn't try anything with that), morph ball weapons, or tricking the game into thinking that the arm cannon is firing the Phazon beam when it is actually firing something else, like the Plasma beam. Maybe if Prime moved directly on top of a morph ball bomb or a power bomb just as it explodes? Maybe if you hit it w/ the boost ball? Maybe if you can hit it with a beam weapon just as a bomb goes off?

If Prime's 'weak spot' is actually the red-ish core thing behind its semitransparent blue jelly stuff, then that may mean that the Phazon beam works by being the only weapon that isn't repelled by that, so it can go in and then damage the inner core of... the inner core... yeah. so tricking the game into sending a beam weapon through that surface could then result in damage... if we can get that to work.

But its pretty likely that it flat out ISN'T possible. For those of you who have looked at basic programming, you know how easily something like the Phazon beam could be programmed, minus of course the complex graphics (stuff in brackets are my comments):

IF samuscoordinates [where your standing] = uberphazonpoolcoordinates [where the phazon pool is, but for simplicity we'll assume that uberphazonpoolcoordinates covers ALL possible coordinates that the phazon pool covers] AND inputbutton [the button pressed by the player] = A [the A button] AND samushasthephazonbeam = TRUE [ie, samus has teh phazon beam >_> ] ELSE [ie, if all that crap isn't true, then do this command] endif [end this if - then thing...]

THEN Primeformtwodamage = Primeformtwodamage - initialdamage [the phazon beam does slightly more damage when it first is activated than when it is held] - damageperframe

IF attackthatishttingprime [note: I had to take out the 'i' in hitting to avoid a censor bypass] <> [does not equal] phazonbeam

THEN gosub [go to teh subroutine] yousuckyouusedthewrongweapon, Primeformtwodamage = Primeformtwodamage

and so on. and excuse my lame programming skills and the way I wrote all that >_> of course you couldn't use this exact program to control Prime's damage, but it could be adjusted to work. If the programming were as simple as this, then we wouldn't have a chance >_> but if the other properties of the game state that prime doesn't take damage from other attacks only because they were deflected and/or cuncussion attacks (explosions) ignored, then if the attack is stopped from being deflected, and teh programmers were too lazy/ went to the trouble of making it so taht prime doesn't actually have invulnerability to the weapons, then they perhaps could do damage.

-
-
-
-
-
-
-
SUMMARY: I have no life and I don't think that its possible to beat Prime w/o Phazon beam.

now off to finish biology homework >_>
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 2/1/2004 11:30:08 PM
New (and probably final) Frigate time: 4:22.50

This run is on tape, but I currently have no way of uploading videos onto my computer. I'll probably just end up sending the whole tape to Nate once my speed run is finished.

And kip, GREAT find on Flaahgra. Wow... just wow.
From: Yoshi348 | Posted: 2/1/2004 11:37:20 PM
Hmmm, can you explain how the Flaahgra trick works? I need more time to download

Basically, you can use the sj to hop on top of the places you bomb, and lay a bomb on top and it'll hit Flagy. You don't have to go through all the solar panel flipping. It's crazy.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 2/2/2004 12:02:49 AM
Nice job, kip! :) That should be helpful in everybody's speed run!

nitetrain: You have less of a life than me! ;) But nice work on MP. I really hope all of your work pays off somehow, but I just don't see MP getting hurt. I hope I'm wrong though!
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/2/2004 12:08:58 AM
MrGuru- did you mean more or less of a life? ;)

and I don't see MP getting hurt either.. yet... but if kip screwed around enough to find that Flaahgra trick, I'm sure he'll be able to exploit any possible solution. If it is possible, it'll probably turn into a who'd-have-thought-that'd-work thing. Like boosting into ridley >_> who'd have thought...?
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Refreshment | Posted: 2/2/2004 5:12:14 AM
People lets all be fair for a second

With all do respect:

The Flaghra trick was discovered by CtrlAltDestroy and was posted in this topic.

I didnt watch the video but if it is what Yoshi posted then thats the trick CtrlAlt described.

I dont want to stir any trouble but lets give credit where its deserved.
From: Refreshment | Posted: 2/2/2004 5:13:04 AM
The link to the video isnt working for me.
From: z0idi | Posted: 2/2/2004 5:40:37 AM
CtrlAltDestroy2:
"You can bomb flaahgra from outside of the morph ball slot, but only when her tentacles are retracted."

kip:
"I think andrew mentioned something like this was actually found by ctrlaltdestroy2 before?"

and with all due respect, Refinement:
don't let this topic drift to a credit discussion, it's about helping other people.

and on a side note:
if people only come here to claim credit for something then they do not belong in here in my opinion.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 2/2/2004 5:56:45 AM
I mentioned that to Kip on IRC yesterday as his method jogged my memory to what CtrlAltDestroy tried when he had some experiments with Flaahgra a while ago.

Who the credit goes to is between CAD and Kip to decide. Maybe joint credit, maybe not.

CAD may have discovered that you could bomb the slots from outside, but if he never applied that experiment further, is he due credit?

Meh, I don't know. I say congrats to both of them for their ingenuity regardless.

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 1st Feburary 2004
From: Refreshment | Posted: 2/2/2004 8:19:25 AM
Well Z0id is too late to try to prevent this topic from going to a who did this and who did that. It just too late, so sorry if you didnt know that up until know.

Like i clearly said i dont want to stir any trouble but the method was discovered by CAD, so whats the problem with giving the guy some credit.

When a poster comes here and said he did some trick, if the trick is already known someone quickly points him out that.
Im doing the same here.

So no hard feelings.
From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2004 9:05:13 AM
*has no qualms about getting no credit*

what's important is the time it saves. =P
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 2/2/2004 9:38:37 AM
kip | *has no qualms about getting no credit*

what's important is the time it saves. =p

I couldn't agree more. We do these things for the game, not for us. But certainly, for documentation purposes, recognition of the effort is only fair when it's accurate.

I say give credit to both of them. They both played a part.

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 1st Feburary 2004
From: Refreshment | Posted: 2/2/2004 10:52:47 AM
From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2004 7:05:13 AM | Message Detail
*has no qualms about getting no credit*

what's important is the time it saves. =P

A man with a rightful heart. Completely agree.

But since there is documentation being kept, lets do it justice. Now for me at least its all in the past.

Do the link with the video works now?

Because i really want to see it.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/2/2004 6:11:10 PM
it should be. at least it was working last night when everyone was going to see it.

as for geo no sj no boost, I have an idea that I thought of 30 seconds ago, but I know it won't work >_> ---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 2/2/2004 6:16:45 PM
That's a nice little Flaahgra trick there...O_O

Anyway, i finished my 23% game without too much difficulty (besides Omega Pirate O_o), and i started a 22% game. Im at the vent shaft part now, but i haven't tried it yet. Im not really asking for help since i think I understand it well enough. But, how hard is it compared to any of the 23% game tricks? Also, would someone be so kind as to send me a link to kip's Geothermal no boost video?
---
~BtT-3:31.80~~HRC-58059.3~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: Radix37 | Posted: 2/2/2004 6:43:40 PM
BartendorSparky, good luck with vent shaft. I've been trying it this past week and haven't got it yet, but i've been close. Also can you come to the metroid2002 chat tonight? I'm still looking fot Btt vids.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 2/2/2004 6:49:51 PM
Sure radix, ill get on it now. =)
---
~BtT-3:31.80~~HRC-58059.3~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: Sneal | Posted: 2/2/2004 8:21:15 PM
nitetrain, tell them ur idea... maybe it will work....
... i think Geo w/o SJ is possible, since my theory is that the developers put those 'programming glitches' to see if s.breakers could find them.... so theres probably some hidden ledge somewhere that you could dbjm off of or something...
however, what about the Phazon Core? you will get constantly pwned in there w/o space jump. or have you figured that out already?
---
Felicitations, malfactors! I am endeavoring to misappropriate the formulary of affordable comesticables. Who will join me?
From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2004 8:34:51 PM
it's possible for the metroids in phazon core to get stuck next to each other, and end up floating in one spot forever as long as you don't kill them or reload the room.

i had it happen to me once, but i have no idea how. since i didn't know when this would happen again, i thought it would be a good time to try to come up with a no space jump method.
From: BoostR | Posted: 2/2/2004 9:16:58 PM
I tried Phazon Core awhile ago, when I wasn't all that great.
I'm not sure if up the candies is the way to go...
But it looks the most promising.

Now that I've learned the 3bj, it might be easier.
Or the platforms, now that I've got the solr_frenzy down
;)

Never got the metroids stuck together, tried everything I could think of before.

Other than Geo Core/Phazon Core [the dreaded cores :( ], and maybe Phen. Edge, I can't think of anything else that would stop a no sj run. Currently, mine's at 66%, and I'd like to get 98%, everything but sj. O_O that'll take some work...
Right now I'm trying to get Wavebuster, just learned even better bomb jumps (thank you metroid2002.com/tzyr) :D
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/2/2004 10:09:50 PM
to do taht, you'd have to climb even FURTHER up phendrana's edge. not to mention several missle expansions that almost ABSOLUTELY need space jump... like the two in root cave >_>
and if anyone cares, I did an AR file where I went the back way into Sunchamber w/o beating Flaahgra first, beat the ghosts, but needed a tbj morph to reach the artifact >_> ---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: D3tje | Posted: 2/3/2004 9:27:35 AM
kip: you can lock the Fission Metroids in the adjacent rooms (they won't explode). Read my post here: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=32495&topic=12417159

(sorry if this is already common knowledge, but I asked earlier and got no answer)
---
Videogame Music Midi Challenge - Hear a tune, guess the game
http://yamauchi.selwerd.nl/~d3/midigame
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2004 12:09:41 PM
oops sorry. that's definitely the first i've heard of that, it will be invaluable for doing that room in no space jump/21%.
From: Black Devil | Posted: 2/4/2004 9:49:10 PM
Right, can anyone offer me some tips on performing scan-dashes. I've managed to get the SJ boots first several times, but I'm not consistent at all. After watching kip's latest videos, it seems that I should be able to pull these off without much trouble. Is there a special trick that will make them easier for me? Or is it simply a case of practice makes perfect?

Also, BUMP.
---
artificial intelligence will never be a match for natural stupidity~ Funky Buddha
From: BoostR | Posted: 2/4/2004 10:10:04 PM
practice
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/4/2004 11:12:26 PM
the majority of scan-dashes don't need to be done that well. I've had times in Phazon mines doing the dash to waste disposal backward where I almost DIDN'T dash at all (released the l-button way too late >_>) and BARELY missed, and probably would have made it if I hadn't been carried too far forward so I couldn't fall onto the ledge >_> Surprisingly, space jump first requires a rather high quality jump, more than most others. The only other one right off the top of my head that needs to be really good is the observatory dash, and the one to skip the mini-ice maze seems to need a decent dash, too. I dunno about geo, the dash has to be made perfect, but a "perfect" dash may not be the best dash for it..

of course, in no sj, you almost always need a perfect dash >_> ---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 2/5/2004 1:46:39 PM
Question here for a sequence breaking run (assuming I ever get out of PPC w/o spider...) Once back in Magmoor, I plan on getting the e-tank from the workstation, then plasma from Geo. Core, then take the elevator that brings you out behind Thardus. Seems like here, most people beat Thardus, then go through "Pirate Research". Is it possible to head to Frozen Pike, then straight to Research Core for Thermal Visor, head through the research area backwards, picking up the Super Missiles and Chozo Artifact along the way? This seems like a faster way to me... (for instance you wouldn't have to get the Super Missiles in Observatory, backtrack to get the missile expansion inside the Cordite tank, then head back to Observatory), and once you emerge in the Ruined Courtyard, you head over to fight Thardus. Is this a plausible route, or would extra "tricks" be required to go this way??? Many thanks.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 2/5/2004 2:14:38 PM
Monster: Yeah, that would be a pretty solid route, if there wasn't the forcefield in Research Lab Hydra. The forcefield can only be deactivated from the front, meaning that you can't go through the labs backwards.

It's probably a little bit late to tell you this, but you could deactivate the field right after you get the Wave Beam, then continue on your sequence-breaking run... but it's pretty far out of the way to do that =(

Of course, you could always try to find a way to deactivate it from the back. If you succeeded, all would be indebted to you.
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 2/5/2004 2:53:54 PM
Thanks for the quick answer... I figured there had to be some reason that people didn't run the labs backwards, and I hadn't even thought of the stupid forcefield. Oh well, perhaps that can be my contribution to MP... I will find a way to scan the unscannable... .... ...... (long pause) ...yeah right.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: njahnke | Posted: 2/5/2004 5:40:41 PM
while you're at it, could you go through the frigate backwards? :)
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/5/2004 6:04:21 PM
which door in the frigate is it that has to be opened ahead of time in order to do the backward frigate?
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: BoostR | Posted: 2/5/2004 6:34:38 PM
The one with turrets right at the beginning.

Even if you find a way through Hydra backwards, wouldn't you still have to go and get the glass broken in Aether before you get the thermal visor?

Not to mention locking the observatory door before fighting the pirates.
From: BlackMaurader | Posted: 2/5/2004 7:50:50 PM
If you're lucky (it seems random at about a 50/50 chance, there's probably a trick that noone's bothered to find yet), the pirate will break the glass in Aether.

If only the same thing happened for Hydra's forcefield.
---
If it sounds like you're writing style is somewhat akin to a hyperactive monkey, you may want to edit slightly.
-bluevorlon
From: BoostR | Posted: 2/6/2004 10:55:53 AM
For a no sj game, what about Phazon Core?
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 2/6/2004 3:45:25 PM
Hmm... I haven't been to this board in quite a while, I've been hanging out at Andrew Mills' new site

That Flaahgra trick everyone was discussing... That's the one where you knock down the mirrors, jump over the acid pool, morph, and lay a bomb outside of the slot? I've been using that for speed runs for quite a while, and Honestly I thought it was common knowledge. Credit doesn't really bother me much, joint credit is fine

And It's amazing how close everyone is to the 21% run!!! Keep it up!!!!
From: Tzyr | Posted: 2/6/2004 5:30:16 PM
CtrlAltDestroy2, it is a little different for you do not need to knock the mirrors but the first one. So after the first cut scene when you enter the sun chamber, shoot a missile to knock the mirror, then bomb the slot. Now, for 2, 3 and 4, just sj right beside the bomb slot, morph and lay a bomb. You do this without shooting the mirrors. That is the difference between what you had done and what kip did was you do not need to shoot the mirrors.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 2/6/2004 9:32:56 PM
Niiiiiiiiice. That's awesome!!!

Well when I tried it with Tentacle 1, I found it was impossible so I just assumed it was the same for the rest. Thanks kip! Now I can finally get that :16 save point at Burning Trail :)
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 2/7/2004 9:07:18 AM
Whoa never heard anything about a new Flaaghra trick?! Is there a movie? It sounds cool enough.
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 2/7/2004 9:47:41 PM
Pretty weird trick!!! The mirrors stay up even after she's dead... and when you shoot to try to stun her, she flashes red instead of green.

It's pretty dangerous though... it's so easy to die. after you bomb a tentacle, the game puts you right back in the middle of her swiping claws.
From: kip | Posted: 2/7/2004 10:29:34 PM
yeah, i'd recommend against stunning him/her before the 4th round unless you really know what you're doing. what usually happens is you get slashed as soon as you can move when the next round begins, but if you don't stun him that should never happen. you should get control of samus just after he finishes his 8th slash in that case.

you can also watch this video for some ideas of how to handle round 3 and 4:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/part4.avi

i'm pretty sure you don't have to take any damage at all with the bombing strat, but it's usually safer to fall into the slime instead of lingering by the bomb slot until the next cutscene; sometimes the nearby tentacle will move and hit you.

round 2 is the strangest, just ignore him if he does that spitting attack, but if he does the "vine bridge", you need to either stun him and take a hit when round 3 begins or shoot 1 missile to knock him back and get to the bomb slot before he counters and slashes you (he is really quick with that, it's harder than it sounds).

in round 4, sometimes he will do the vine bridge at another side of the room, just ignore him and go for the bomb slot then. but most of the time he'll put it near you like in the video.

if anyone has ideas of how to speed up the fight, that would be cool. it probably could be done about 2 seconds faster, but IMO, the way i do it in the video strikes a nice balance between speed and safeness.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/8/2004 1:36:08 AM
the best way to speed up the fight would be to eliminate the cutscenes. >_> <_<

for whatever reason, the "cutscene" of Flaahgra repeatedly slashing pisses the living hell out of me.... I don't know why though. >_< maybe because it seems like its almost the closest I've seen anyone come to literally breaking the game...

plus, cutscenes take WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long >_< doesn't matter if it doesn't add to total time. Flaahgra fight + Flaahgra dying + varia = seemingly about half the entire time it takes to run from gathering hall to burning trail.
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Link05 | Posted: 2/8/2004 1:00:06 PM
Frigate escape time + ~4.21.40 Not on tape so cant prove it but congo-rats to me
---
I'm the Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man
From: Link05 | Posted: 2/8/2004 1:01:06 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Tzyr | Posted: 2/8/2004 2:51:15 PM
nice link :)

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: BoostR | Posted: 2/10/2004 7:54:28 PM
bump =/
From: kip | Posted: 2/12/2004 4:34:06 AM
note to the calcmasters: i uploaded those tests of the tallon and burning trail path, so someone check them out please. the runs were far from decent but i'm pretty sure you guys don't want me spending days on a test. =]

just deduct like 4 seconds from the tallon path, and 5 or 6 from the burning trail one, or however many seconds of visible mistakes you feel there were in either path.
From: kip | Posted: 2/12/2004 4:55:23 AM
also, radix, i have no idea what you were actually talking about earlier with that door you can make open, i don't even know which room. if there is no video, could you explain it in detail? if it saves 3 seconds then i have to try to do it.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 2/12/2004 10:46:19 AM
heh, no contest. I do not even need to add mistakes to show it is lopsided.

BT path test 1 + 2 = 2:08.70
Tallon path test = 1:16.64

And Tallon can be done a lot faster (like the first elevator ;)

So there are things to consider. If you do bt path, you get 1 e-tank, a nice save that does not lose any time, and makes it easier to do wave/boost + ice for it is in two parts. Or that means that you could skip the ice save since you saved at bt.

For the tallon route, you will only have 99 life ;p you up to the challange? and you are pretty much forced to save in reflecting pool for boost/wave + ice would be one long segment.

For spider route, you could easily pick up a e-tank picking up elder/spirit after plasma/thardus. For spiderless, you could do the same, but it would be more out of the way.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 2/12/2004 10:53:32 AM
heh forgot to post this..heh it was right infront of me, so why do you not get it? hehe :P!!

anyway, it took you 72 seconds to get to bt (nothing to interupt you)...and it took you 76 seconds to do the whole tallon route

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: kip | Posted: 2/12/2004 11:26:32 PM
i did my own comparison in the morning and "only" got about a 24 second difference ("only" of course just being relative to what you got, 24 seconds is still huge). but all i actually did was take the elevator rides out of the videos.

i don't understand how there is such a big difference. cal used to always go on about how the tallon path was so much slower, and this was before the fast way to climb burning trail. i'm not sure if he actually calced anything when he used to play, but either way it's still odd.

and yeah, i thought about stuff like how you would have 99 energy for the spiderless route... it's only really an issue in the mines IMO, but i have no idea if the terrifying rooms like elite research and mqb (first visit) can be done without compromising speed. i don't think anyone has tried any % with no tanks, there wasn't a need before. you'll always have the tank in the room behind frozen pike for the standard route, but it's meaningless if the spiderless route is faster.

no question now about taking the reflecting pool save after ice, if you didn't it would be around a 20 minute segment that ends with a random element... no thanks.

remember when i said i should probably make a backup save after the next segment, in case something goes wrong later? because of this, i was thinking it should probably be done now. in the case i can't get through mines with 99 energy as fast as i want to, i'm pretty sure the main plaza tank would be the one with the lowest time penalty.

but maybe the backup should still be made after ice, i don't know. it's a lot less to redo if something happens, and the tallon vs burning trail thing seems sealed anyway. thanks a bunch for checking this out.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 2/13/2004 12:33:28 AM
In the hard 100% that I screwed up, I got through mqb with only 39 damage from the troopers and a little from taking the dip in the phazon... of course I'd taken damage in the rooms before too, so getting through with just 99 will be hard for sure. Getting through with even 299 when i did hard any 1:45 was extremely hard ... but that's before I learned a few things too.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 2/13/2004 10:28:02 AM
Woohoo!!! FINALLY made it out of PPC w/o spiderball. (Got to where the first two jumps were down cold, but the third jump... aaargh. That is a TIGHT space to fit into. Helped me to lock my view to the right so I could see where I was heading.) Yay for me! Got my Magmoor Workstation e-tank, headed over to Geo. Core for my first ever try at early plasma beam... 5 minutes later, I had it. Remember in the v6.0 board, when me and Radix and others were talking about no-restart/single segment speed runs, and I said something like "imagine if you're 45 minutes into the run, and you pull off early plasma beam in one shot, wouldn't everyone be impressed?" Well, having done it myself now, the answer is NO... as Radix himself said, early plasma is EASY. The jump up the spider track from the 3rd spinner platform is pretty simple. For the jump out to the wall, the vids make it look like the ledge is only a couple of inches wide, easy to miss/fall off... when it's actually about a foot wide. Hardest part was the ghetto jump to the first spider block, but that wasn't too bad. Anyway, now I get to practice my Thardus-spanking techniques.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 2/13/2004 1:37:44 PM
Hey! I think Metroid2002 is down or something. I can't go there
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 2/13/2004 2:09:15 PM
Saw your message, checked it out... m2k2 seems to be working just fine on my computer. Went to the Prime sectiono, watched a vid... everything seemed normal. Perhaps the problem is on your end??? Or maybe just a temporary glitch...
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: njahnke | Posted: 2/14/2004 1:33:59 PM
my dns provider has been having some problems.

i apologize if their screams of agony disturb your play; i'm currently playing lacrosse with a pitchfork using them as the ball.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 2/16/2004 12:54:30 AM
In the Great Tree Hall, you can skip the Crashed Frigate using a DBJ and going above a gate thing.
I've done it twice, in different low-% runs. But in my latest run, where I have the Spider-ball I just can't seem to get through the top.
Does anyone know if the Spider-ball makes it impossible to get through, or am I just too bad?
From: Grub55 | Posted: 2/16/2004 6:50:28 PM
don't worry, you're just out of practice on that special dbj.

I'm 90% sure that spider does'nt do anything to your percentage.

---
Oh come on now, do you honestly think that custom can fly faster than Jesus? Using Jesus on Aeropolis: Multiplex is worth the cost of the game alone. Eon Blue
From: Grub55 | Posted: 2/16/2004 6:51:17 PM
I'm sorry, stupid typo!!

I mean your ball physics, not percentage.

---
Oh come on now, do you honestly think that custom can fly faster than Jesus? Using Jesus on Aeropolis: Multiplex is worth the cost of the game alone. Eon Blue
From: Refreshment | Posted: 2/17/2004 8:21:25 AM
Shadow Jedi:

The Spider Ball indeed makes it more difficult to by pass the bars.

Yet, is posible to get to the other side. Is very obvious really go a head and try it with SB and with SB youll notice it instantly.
From: gamchtr | Posted: 2/17/2004 12:01:45 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: njahnke | Posted: 2/17/2004 1:03:35 PM
you're fired.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 2/17/2004 1:13:42 PM
.. Thats super plays award!
---
.
From: Sneal | Posted: 2/17/2004 5:07:27 PM
don't tell anyone about it. let them be surprised.

why does it always feel like i'm about to fall off of the platform after jumping up the SB track for early plasma? my heart always skips a beat...

:( curse my terrible dash jumping skills... is there an easier way to negate the thermal glitch than dash jumping?
---
Hey, kids, how about I show you how to have fun when Moms not home! -The Cat in the Hat
From: giggs | Posted: 2/19/2004 8:37:27 AM
Hey guys. I'm new on this board I'm starting another MP game and i want to get SJ first, but i can't do the dash jump correctly... I have PAL btw.

If someone can read .mov videos i made a short vid of what i do, if someone can help me please contact me on AIM.

thanks in advance, bye
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 2/19/2004 10:02:31 AM
Hey giggs, I recently created a board about how to get SJ boots first. I'll bump it to the top of the list for you.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 2/19/2004 10:13:47 AM
Or just go to http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=32495&topic=12695276 for the SJ first help board.
---
"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 2/19/2004 4:14:12 PM
omg, it's giggs! O_O

---
marth1, TreborSelbon, and kip are gods XD
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 2/19/2004 8:36:32 PM
looking back, it seems some people are thinking of skipping the phazon suit to lower another %... while after looking at the problem of beating metroid prime, I almost completely convinced myself that it isn't possible. But I DO have an idea for getting hte artifact of newborn w/ only 99 energy, but I highly doubt it will either work, be possible to practically reproduce it if it CAN work, or even be worth the trouble.

In the commentary for his 1:37 100% vid, Radix mentioned that in the room after central dynamo on his way in to get the phazon suit, that sometimes at the end of that room, he would switch visors, beams, and get hit at the same time he went through the door, causing the game to crash. Perhaps it would be possible to re-create a similar scenario just before the phazon maze, overloading the ROM (read only memory, not like a ROM on a computer) and/or the gamecube so that the phazon itself doesn't load properly- so that the phazon inflicts 0 damage. however, in my post on metroid prime w/o phazon suit/ beam, I mentioned how teh way the game was programed could make or break the whole event in sequence breaking, and in that case, the programming my affect our ability to damage prime w/o phazon beam. if the programming here involves the phazon being layered on the polygon floor after the floor itself loads, then it might be possible, but if the phazon floor was designed so taht the floor polygon itself contained the phazon, then it wouldn't be because even if it were possible to glitch the game, it might cause the floor itself to load improperly, dumping you into secret world #13.

however, gamecube is built much more solidly than any of nintendo's previous systems, so I think this has a 99.999999% chance of failing, because I haven't even heard of any glitches similar to this even in simpler and previous systems. but, I guess spitting out every idea that comes to mind while walking home after baseball practice is BOUND to help me come up w/ something :/ >_>
I also came up with a new idea for activating the geo core spinners 1 & 2 (or is it 1 & 3?), but I haven't taken a close look at an uncompleted geo core recently enough to see if the structure allows for it... it would involve something similar to a principle involved in the vent shaft bomb jump. on m2k2, nate says that to place bomb 2, you roll up the hill until you fall back a bit, and place bomb 2 in between the points where you peaked at your height, and when you suddenly 'catch' and shoot back up a little ways. if you can 'catch' an obsticle around the spinner at the EXACT time that you enter the spinner, then perhaps you can do it? I don't know the physics of spinners very well, so I'm not too good for checking this out.

SUMMARY: I have 2 more lame ideas >_> <_<
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/20/2004 4:45:12 PM
bump
---
"Try varying the timing as you drop Bombs to reach even greater heights." - Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: Videogaming | Posted: 2/22/2004 2:10:30 PM
bump
From: Seiken Menose | Posted: 2/22/2004 2:29:30 PM
Well I found an interesting glitch when trying to defeat Omega w/o x-ray. It is possible to "confuse" the AI into not doing anything at all. Remember that ledge to the right of the room, the one with a phazon splotch coming out of the wall? Well, if you get Omega close enough to it to not use his missile/bomb attack and you stand on the peak of the ledge, Omega will then just stand there and not attack at all!!! It was really weird, and I have been able to do it consecutively. I don't know if this is known/useful but I figured I say it anyway. Now back to try defeating him sans x-ray...-_-
---
"And it was something we all had to bear as it was a condition of purchasing Metroid Fusion."-Platinum Dragoon on Samus' dislike for Adam's orders.
From: njahnke | Posted: 2/23/2004 12:42:38 AM
nate says

iirc that was actually trebor. ;P
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: supersonic86 | Posted: 2/23/2004 2:24:17 AM
OMFG you guys are crazy, I need to see some of these videos.
---
I need a better name
From: DarkMyke007 | Posted: 2/23/2004 2:10:29 PM
Well,just like Giggs I'm also new to this board and finished my second speedrun yesterday.
Now I was just wondering if there is a site where I can find Speedrun times,even if they are unconfirmed.Or maybe someone has a list with all submitted times or something like that.
I'd just like to compare my time with the ones by other PAL Players.
From: tomatobob | Posted: 2/23/2004 3:20:14 PM
metroid2002
---
You have dodged the bullet Neo, but now you must die by chainsaw!
Your head asplode!
From: DarkMyke007 | Posted: 2/24/2004 12:18:19 PM
Well,on metroid2002 (awesome site,btw) you can only find a few confirmed scores which are mostly by NTSC players.
I'd be searching for more records,and as I've said they can be unconfirmed too.I hope that most people are serious players and not lame cheaters which post an unreal time >_>
From: Kridly | Posted: 2/24/2004 4:24:54 PM
Hey, I don't know if anyone said this yet but I stink at dong the l-lock spring space jump and I'm sure others do too, so here is an alternative to getting through ruined shrine with boost ball but without spiderball.

Boost up the ramp on the right (After you walk in to the room) and then look across the room and you should see some weird things hanging from the ceiling. One of them looks roughly like this: _ ___ Jump so that you are
\____/

standing in in the little space and then just jump to the ledge with the door. I know its a little thing but its another way to do it anyway. So if you want to put it on your site nate, or not....Well anyway thanks for reading and I hope that it helps and that nobody has posted this yet and if they have then don't pay me any attention!
---
Here I sit now, broken hearted, I came to crap, but only farted.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 2/26/2004 11:51:50 AM
Kridly, hard to visualize this when I just woke up..but nice find. I am sure it has been found though because there are a good 4-5 ways of getting through the room without spider or boost. It is nice when you found things on your own though.
---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: z0idi | Posted: 2/27/2004 2:19:27 AM
hi,

for everyone that is interested in a PAL run:

the spiderless PAL 1:17 (38%) run is finished and can be downloaded via m2k2/sda. (follow the link from www.metroid2002.com or access it directly at www.planetquake.com/sda/mp/ ).

thanks especially to Nate and Radix who have converted/hosted the video files.

enjoy,
zoidi
From: Dreamwinder | Posted: 2/27/2004 7:24:54 PM
I just saw the 1:37 mpeg for Metroid Prime. All I have to say is this. "Zoidi," is not only the MASTER of Prime,
HE IS THE GOD OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
If anyone knows him, or knows of any boards he is on, tell him that he has the undisputed title of METROID LORD. I can't even sequence break, let alone do it that fast.
HOLY CRAP THAT IS SO FAST AS TO BE ALMOST HUMANLY IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---
Music isn't rhythm, music isn't rhyme. Music is the sound of joy that makes the world sublime.-Me
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 2/29/2004 9:31:20 PM
Question: Under 21% conditions, was there ever a way established to climb Ruined Courtyard? I don't remember ever reading about such... And if not, I've almost found a way on my own.

AKA: bump
From: Tzyr | Posted: 2/29/2004 11:57:52 PM
yes, kip solved it. You can dbjm onto an invisible ledge above the door you enter. From there, a dbjm to the snow ledge above that. Now for the tough part. Do either a wall tbjm or a 3bjm to the next snowy ledge, then contine the way to the top.

Another way I tried but never got it (since I could not get the hard one), is to dash over to where you go in and grab the e-tank (made this) and from there, try to dbjm out and over the ledge.

What I mean on the platform where you go down to get the e-tank, the one just above it is very low. A single bomb jump can hit the top. I was not able to do it, but got close, was to bomb out then back in to land on the top. If you can make that, then you can dash to where the spider track would take you. From there it is easy.

What was your method?

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/1/2004 5:27:49 PM
If kip solved it, then I should probably stop messing around in there =P

Actually, I found my way up to the snowy ledge on my own, but I couldn't balance long enough to do a tbjm. So I dashed over to the Energy Tank hole, same as you, and tried bombing up to the top. That didn't work, so I tried dashing to the central structure, and no dice.

Great minds must think alike ;)
From: kip | Posted: 3/1/2004 9:52:19 PM
nah zoidi already knew how to do it. i forgot if he ever managed that last bomb jump to the snowy ledge though. i made it once with a dbjm, but that was in a game with space jump; without space jump it feels like it's out of reach of a dbjm.

a tbj/"3bj" would definitely get the height but it's insanely hard to stay balanced long enough as you said. a dbjm is not that hard to do but getting the height is tricky, 3D movement is so complex that i can never tell what seperates success from failure when it comes to things like this (a lot like the old early space jump method).
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 3/2/2004 11:41:08 AM
I've got a question regarding speed runs. I've been trying to come up with my own route (obviously it borrows lots of tricks that have already been discovered by others)... it's fairly similar to the now "standard" route first popularized by Radix, but has several differences. Right now I'm just in "practice" mode, trying to get good at all the "little" tricks that add up to a big time savings at the end. My question regards the Artifact of Wild. Radix (and others) get the Artifact immediately after Flaahgra using the Suntower trick, then backtrack to Magmoor to get to Phendrana for boost and wave. In my route, I save Wild for later, and think it MIGHT be faster??? If not faster, then slower by a tiny amount.

Basically, after the GTH DBJ and first trip through the mines for grapple and power bombs, I get out through PPC, get plasma, beat Thardus for spider, then completely clean out Phendrana (pirate research, then Frost Cave/P. Edge/G. Chamber stuff, then Ice Ruins East/West, P. Shorelines, and Chozo Ice Temple. Elevator to Magmoor, quickly grab Strength, PB expansion, and Ice Spreader. Next thing is to do the "Chozo Ruins collect-a-thon". So, run through Monitor Station, Triclops Pit, Lava Lake, elevator to Chozo Ruins. THEN I climb the Suntower the standard way, take out the Ghosts for Wild, go through Arboretum to Ruined Fountain for the missile exp., then Magma Pool, Training Chamber, etc...

It seems to me like after the Phendrana clean-out and Strength/PB exp/Ice Spreader trifecta, you have to head back to Chozo Ruins anyway... quickest way would be the elevator that brings you out by the Suntower. Climbing Suntower the regular way might be a few seconds slower, but wouldn't that be made up for by having Super Missiles for the Ghost fight??? If anyone has any idea as to what the time difference would be between these two routes, I'd be glad to hear it. Thanks.
---
Follow me down into a swan dive, all eyes closed tightly...
From: kip | Posted: 3/2/2004 11:54:35 AM
"In my route, I save Wild for later, and think it MIGHT be faster???"

some others have played with this too. it's believed to be faster now for hard 100%, not sure about normal. tzyr or radix might have something to say for normal.

in any %, everyone always says spiderless is the way to go, so you do not even have the option of getting it later then (also, no one gets super missile).
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 3/2/2004 1:38:12 PM
Thanks for the response. I did my first "practice" speed run for 100% normal in 7:57... it's a horrible time, but I was trying a lot of the tricks for the first time, such as SJ first, GTH DBJ, early ice, early plasma, Thardus w/o thermal, etc. (My only resets were for the GTH DBJ, after about 10 min of trying I would restart.) I was having a very hard time with the Suntower trick, so decided to skip it and get Wild later... and it seemed like it took very little to no backtracking.

Currently I'm doing my first attempt at a 100% hard speed run; I'm at 3:23, still have to do the crashed frigate, 2nd mines trip, OP, MR, and MP. Not a great time, but I'm getting better; should be able to come in around 4:30 to 4:45. And, it definitely seemed like on hard, trying to beat 3 Chozo Ghosts w/o super missiles and no e-tanks (or 1 e-tank if you make an early trip to the Furnace) would be a pretty nasty fight that would take a LONG time... it takes me 2 supers plus one charged shot to take down a Ghost on hard, so it might take 10 or more charged shots if you don't have supers. My guess would be that saving Wild for later would be quite a bit faster if you're doing a 100% hard speed run, just due to the time saved during the Ghost fight.
---
Follow me down into a swan dive, all eyes closed tightly...
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/2/2004 6:06:25 PM
Hey, I've got a couple more questions.

1. Is there a video anywhere of the Vent Shaft bomb jump? I think there might be one in kip's directory on m2k2, but it's in .avi form, and I can't watch .avi's. So, is that a movie of the jump? If so, what do I need to watch .avi's, and if not, is there a movie somewhere else?

2. How do you get out the top of PPC in 21% conditions? By top, I mean starting in the rafters. I'm playing my no-SJ game, and I just can't get out the top.

3. What is the absolute minimum number of e-tanks required for early Newborn?
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/2/2004 8:50:08 PM
LeCoureur,

1) http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/vent_shaft.avi

2) http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ppc_no_sj.avi

3) For NTSC, the version you have, I believe Radix said the best he did was 1267, so 12 tanks for normal.

MonsterERB, like kip said, for any %, getting wild after would be slower since you do not have supers (for a faster ghost fight), nor supers for even getting to wild.

But, for 100%, I know for a fact getting wild later is faster. Make sure if you do wild later, you learn sess' bomb jump up sun tower for that method is actually faster then wild after flaahgra.

http://www.metroid2002.com/without_super_missiles_artifact_of_wild.html

I calculated both methods, from entering sun tower from the bottom and doing sess' jump, or entering from the top and doing the wild after flaahgra, and Sess' jump is indeed faster.

Not to mention, I was able to kill the ghosts faster on hard with x-ray and supers then Radix was in his 100% (now that is pretty obvious though).

The problem I had was coming up with a route where you would have x-ray and supers (x-ray being the tricky part). The only option really is after OP, go through quarantine cave, to north phendrana, then grab strength -> pb expansion -> go up magmoor north, grab triclops expansions -> nature -> save at bt (a great save since you do not lose any time and it is in a good position for the sess jump.

This does mean you have that much less missiles for the mines, less pb..but it might be good in the end.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: kip | Posted: 3/3/2004 5:27:13 AM
need divx to watch most vids i've made, it's a free download at www.divx.com

if that doesn't work, a wmv should if you have windows media player. just say something if you need one.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/3/2004 9:20:03 AM
dargonit!

1) http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/vent_shaft.avi

2) http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/ppc_no_sj.avi

I had kip's folder open, i knew it was kip's stuff..but I still wrote my directory..bah

oh well

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 3/3/2004 3:43:51 PM
Very nice movie Zoidi. That's actually the first MP speed run video I've ever watched. I learned a lot. Thanks to you, I'll be able to lower my time by several minutes.

I was curious though, why didn't you do the flaaghra bomb trick? That would have been a lot faster.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/3/2004 4:24:44 PM
"I was curious though, why didn't you do the flaaghra bomb trick? That would have been a lot faster."

That is because it was not found before he past that part of his run :P

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 3/4/2004 2:51:32 PM
After seeing that 1:17 vid, or parts of it, I decided to do a speed-run, following Zoidi's route (I would've done Radix's 100% if it wasn't for ONE STUPID door-lock in Phazon Mines). I'm currently clocked at 40 minutes at the end of section 7. That's the first Phazon Mines visit (I havn't seen more than 8 sections).
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/4/2004 5:48:30 PM
Thanks, guys. I got the Divx thing and was able to watch the Vent Shaft movie. I was all O_O It's a lot different than I imagined it would be from the description on m2k2.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/4/2004 5:50:20 PM
Oh, and if anyone cares... I've resurrected my 100% speed run! The main reason I quit was because I couldn't decide on a route. I probably won't do another 100% after this, and I wanted it to really shine. I've come up with a route now, and I think it's something special... maybe even better the one Radix used. Stay tuned.
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 3/5/2004 8:29:07 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: kip | Posted: 3/9/2004 3:31:32 PM
what kind of stuff are you doing in your route? it's not just centered around later wild?
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:37:45 PM
Hmm... I assume kip is talking to me, so I'll answer. If not, then too bad =P

Myself, I believe that getting Wild later is overrated... I've never seen any hard numbers to compare getting it early and getting it later, but my intuition, for what it's worth, says it's not worth it. Besides, to do later Wild for this route would DEFINITELY not be worth... the whole route would have to be contorted just for what, 30 seconds at most? So I did not do later Wild.

As for the route itself... Now, in any type of run, you're required to sweep the Phazon Mines twice. Once for the Power Bombs, the second to get the Artifact from the Phazon Elite. These two sweeps can be forward, forward (with a long item run in between); backward, forward (this generally involves getting the x-ray visor in between); backward, backward (there's really no reason to do this); and forward, followed by an immediate backward sweep after the Omega Pirate. When I'm creating routes, I've said before that the main thing I look at is the number of rooms. Well, it is actually many rooms quicker to do the forward, backward run of the Mines - like, 10 rooms faster (can't remember offhand). Radix used the forward, forward sweep, to (I believe) his disadvantage. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

Another thing I wanted to use was a reverse sweep of the Chozo Ruins, to gather the last few items. Doing it in reverse is faster than forward; this is due in part to not having to backtrack after you've cleared out Magma Pool/Training Chamber. Also, the Ruins kind of slope upward, so you have more time-consuming climbs while doing a forward sweep (Gathering Hall, for instance).

Early Newborn was another thing I made sure to use. In my 2:14 route, I did not use this, mostly because I did not know of it. It saves 2-3 minutes, so I'm making sure to pick up the minimum number of energy tanks (12) to get Newborn early.

Those are the key points to my route. The rest is just boilerplate stuff, like the crashed frigate and the Phendrana sweep. Hope that answers any questions, and hope it's a good route!
From: kip | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:26:50 AM
"Myself, I believe that getting Wild later is overrated... I've never seen any hard numbers to compare getting it early and getting it later, but my intuition, for what it's worth, says it's not worth it."

this is true. there are no hard numbers, so i am still skeptical personally. and when i talked to radix he didn't sound sure either. every time a route question comes up i'll be reminded of the tallon vs magmoor path debate when going to the ice beam, which was only settled by trying both and getting hard numbers (and the one thought to be slower was faster by 50+ seconds).

i think the time to go up sun tower was compared, and the time on the ghost fight, but i don't see how anyone can just "know" the effect of changing the route so that later wild can work. we can't have someone run it to try it, because we don't even know the best route involving later wild (that's its own mess). we don't even know if the 1:37 route is the best "standard" route for later wild to be compared against.

100% is so complicated ;-[ but imo it's a nice testament to the game's nonlinearty now. speed runs could have been mindless affairs.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/10/2004 9:33:49 PM
kip, how are you coming on your uber speed run?
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/13/2004 2:39:33 PM
Umm... Hope somebody can help me with this:
I was playing MP today, doing a 100% file, not necesarilly speed run, but fast as i can do it. Anyway i was trying to do early Plasma, but my DBJ skills are inadequate and nowhere near Radix and certain other's l337 skills... I can't do the dbj out of the lava in the room before Geo Core!!! HELP!!
---
I have such a short attention sp- OOOH!! A PLASTIC BAG!! Plast ic bag plastic bag plastic bag!
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 3/13/2004 2:55:15 PM
Just to let everyone know, starting tuesday (hopefully) im gonna start working on a 23% speed run. Im gonna follow Trebor's route, unless someone can show me afaster one or something, because i am far to lazy to try to find a better one. Ive been practing all the tricks and stuff, so im pretty well off. The only thing thats making me nervous is the boss fights, namely omega pirate and metroid prime. So with any luck, there will (hopefully) be a new 23% record!

But first of all, i have a question. In the speed run videos, they seem to know exactly when metroid prime is gonna lay a phazon pool. What is the trick to know when he does that?


---
~BtT-3:29.40~~HRC-60205.4~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: njahnke | Posted: 3/13/2004 3:38:47 PM
a broken record, check:

http://www.metroid2002.com/without_spider_twin_fires_tunnel.html

you will need to either alter how you are laying your bombs or use one of the alternate strategies for passing that room without spider.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/13/2004 4:45:42 PM
After watching the video i saw that i was doing the dbj wrong, went back and got through. But now im stuck getting on top of the infamous 1st spder block... :( I saw the vid but that doesnt help much, i tried it but i always fall a little bit short. Can you give me any pointers?
---
I have such a short attention sp- OOOH!! A PLASTIC BAG!! Plast ic bag plastic bag plastic bag!
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/13/2004 5:17:24 PM
try ghettoing a bit out infront of the block so when you push against it you are pushing against the knob thing on the end. but be carefull to fall back to the metal walkway in case you don't make it, otherwise its all the way to the lava for you.
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/13/2004 8:04:27 PM
Yeah, i did that twice, s now i have like... 28 energy... ><
---
I have such a short attention sp- OOOH!! A PLASTIC BAG!! Plast ic bag plastic bag plastic bag!
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/13/2004 8:19:38 PM
LeCoureur, what are you talking about? Overrated? I am the only one who said it was faster and for 100%, it IS faster.

Kip just proved that after you get wave, going the root cave path was 50 seconds (maybe more?) faster then going back through bt. This means if you can come up with a route that gets you back to monitor station (and you do go grab ice spreader), you will not lose any time by going through magmoor to bt.

I know for a fact that the bomb jump up the sun tower is slow. I timed Radix' bomb jump with a vid that kip made of doing Sess' jump, starting from when you enter the room (Either from the top or bottom), and stopping when Radix or myself entered sun chamber. You do have boost after, so you can gain a little bit of time in the middle room.

The other thing is you have at least supers, if not both supers and x-ray for the ghosts. On hard, I was able to kill the ghosts faster then Radix did on normal (with charge only). If you did a thorough run, you could do a very quick sun chamber. On hard, 2 supers + 1 semi charged shot. Normal is 1 super + 1 semi charged.

And yes, I am sure that even without x-ray, you can still have a good fight (that is the main problem right now, getting a route so that you are there with supers and x-ray).

So no, it is not overrated.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/13/2004 9:27:15 PM
W00t!! I did it! I did early plasma! Altho considering how long it took me to do it (and how many times i had to climb back up... ><), id callit late plasma... lol. Thanks guys for helping me out!!
---
I have such a short attention sp- OOOH!! A PLASTIC BAG!! Plast ic bag plastic bag plastic bag!
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/13/2004 10:28:40 PM
Tzyr, you'll notice that in my post I DID concede that the single act of obtaining Wild later is faster than getting it immediately after Flaahgra. From what you said, it looks like I underestimated how much time it would save during the actual collection.

What I DON'T like about going back for it later is that there isn't really a convenient way to go back for it while having the Super Missiles and/or X-Ray Visor. I have yet to see a route that would allow for later Wild to actually save time overall, i.e. the time saved while collecting the artifact outweighs the time lost by going out of the way. A person might manage to come up with a route where later Wild fits in quite nicely, but there still wouldn't be a way of knowing whether the route was actually BETTER than a more efficient route that chose to not use later Wild, thereby losing time only during the collection of Wild. Hope that made sense.
From: kip | Posted: 3/15/2004 3:19:12 AM
well, if you're doing a reverse chozo sweep later on, i'd think it'd be better to save the crossway missile for then, when i suspect you could just restart from reflecting pool whenever you mess up. the crossway missile is maybe the hardest expansion to get, and is pretty much suicide to attempt in the wave/ice segment considering how hard it is in any% already (ever since the end of the tallon/bt debate, you cannot cut the segment in half with the bt save due to the massive time loss).

not only that but, you are right above the door going back to the furnace when you grab the missile, so your idea of saving time by doing the sweep in reverse holds true for this room too. when you come in crossway from reflecting pool, you're right by that fence thing, and when you get the missile you just drop down to the door you need to go to next (getting it in wave/ice has the exact opposite effect; you always have to go out of your way).

if you end up in main plaza after this reverse sweep, i'd think it would be better to not get wavebuster and lifegiver early, also for the reason of it (wavebuster) being too hard to try in wave/ice segment.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 3/15/2004 10:49:35 AM
It would still be better to get the crossway missile on the way to ice ... because when doing a reverse sweep later you would just leave hall of elders using the south ice door and end up right in furnace... the whole point of early crossway missile is to avoid hall of elders -> crossway -> furnace and just go straight to furnace.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal 100% 1:37, Hard any% 1:45, Hard 100% 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: kip | Posted: 3/15/2004 1:01:37 PM
so taking the other door to furnace saves time over being right next to the fence, and right next to the door when you drop down after the missile? when you get it early the fence is on the other side of the room, and the door you want to use is on the other side after getting the missile. have we timed this before?
From: kip | Posted: 3/15/2004 1:03:52 PM
hmm yeah, i forgot about that tunnel with the shutter by crossway. waiting for that thing to load would not be good.

well having to get crossway early doesn't exactly help anyone's argument that 100% is easier. ;-)
From: thegreatsaiyaman | Posted: 3/15/2004 3:32:20 PM
I was watching the 1:17 run today, and it was really cool. The only question that I have is why does he get the ice spreader? He never uses it, or did I miss something?
---
Current likes: Chrono Cross, New Horizons, AW2, FFTA
Current Dislikes: Checksums, my school, N-gage
From: z0idi | Posted: 3/15/2004 4:22:54 PM
used it for metroid prime's first form. I thought that time save was worth getting some extra missile tanks.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/15/2004 8:35:29 PM
I got the Crossway missile on my way to the Ice Beam. My logic was that Crossway is just an out-of-the-way sort of room, and only one time through it is more than enough =P

But yeah, the direct route to Furnace while going backwards helps too.

I split the Burning Trail -> Reflecting Pool segment in half, saving at Gathering Hall. From Gathering Hall to Reflecting Pool has lots of crazy sequence breaks, including the Furnace track jump (for some reason, I have trouble getting into the hole once I've morphed), several uber jumps in Crossway, the tbj out of Hall of Elders (also the Ghost fight can go really badly), and the Stone Toad jump in Reflecting Pool. I figured that the time saved by getting it all on the first try outweighed the time lost by saving. Yes, I could've got it all on the first try even starting from Burning Trail... but dammit, I'm don't have the patience to keep retrying =P
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/15/2004 8:41:43 PM
Alright... this is seriously screwed up... Ya know the room with the particle cannon in the phazon mines? The one where you use thie cannon to blow up a wall for a missile expansion? If ya dont... then ya should. Anyway, i was doing a backwards sweep of the mines and i got to this room, charged up my cannon and shot a super missile at the pirate across the room, the missile didn't get hit by anything. It went straight on through. Then, i tried to enter the room. It wouldn't let me!! I tried jumping through. I got stuck. I morphed. I got stuck and now i can't unmorph. Is this caused because the room doesn't load the wall's image, but loads its affect on samus (i.e. not being able to pass through it)? Has it happened to anyone before? Can i fix it?? HELP ME!
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: NarcoSteve | Posted: 3/15/2004 8:48:01 PM
I think I heard that you can boost thru it. But I know hardly anything about SB in MP(can't convince friend to lent it to me. Argh!)
---
"You know, fingerprints are just like snowflakes. They're both very pretty"-Chief Wiggum
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/15/2004 8:48:22 PM
Well, i got unstuck, but i still can't get by this room... Any suggestions?
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/15/2004 8:49:54 PM
Never mind again. I can't believe i boosted through a solid rock wall! 0_o...
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/16/2004 3:02:22 PM
kip, I just watched your part 5 prerun video, and I must say, I'm impressed. Could you give us a little info on that run? Is that the route you're taking in your real run? I'm just interested on the progress of you run. :)
---
If you put your car into reverse, you move a negative distance - Stokely817
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: kip | Posted: 3/16/2004 4:19:28 PM
sorry, i was planning to answer your other post now. well, it's a normal any% run i started about a month ago. i think the main reasons behind doing it are that we could use a new one (to see what's possible nowadays), and i'm also trying to gather hard numbers on how the spiderless route stacks up against the "standard" one; the route i used in the 1:23 speed run.

just about everyone seems to think the spiderless route is better, but we don't have hard numbers, so i think the only way to know for sure is to actually run both and compare with videos. whichever route ends up faster is the one i'll go with (after ice is when it has to split; standard route starts by going to plasma, while spiderless goes to the mines instead).

where i go in the prerun of part5 is what i'll really be doing, yes (if i ever get a real part5 =P). in my last run i took the magmoor path back to chozo on the way to ice, because most of us thought it was faster than going through tallon. but a while back, trebor brought up the issue again and we did a comparison to gather numbers and found that the tallon path is actually about a minute faster. because of this change, i got :25 after ice in my prerun, but the prerun had too many mistakes for me to take, so i'm trying to redo it. but it's kind of taxing because this segment is almost 11 minutes (of gameplay).
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/16/2004 5:06:59 PM
I wouldn't know from experience, but it seems that if you go the plasma route, you are able to get PBs earlier, although the expansion in phendrana im thinking of could be waay out of the way. But getting PBs earlier in one route could save time... idk... dont listen to me im d-u-m dumb...
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: chibi super shadow | Posted: 3/16/2004 5:37:18 PM
I just currently got the ice beam (With sequence breaking...I still need the spider ball). Where should I go and what should I do now?
---
Quote of the day
"Ugh...Hehe...The wind, it's blowing..." - Ganondorf, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
From: chibi super shadow | Posted: 3/16/2004 6:00:06 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: njahnke | Posted: 3/16/2004 8:11:06 PM
A broken record, see http://www.metroid2002.com/other_elite_research_wall.html
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/16/2004 9:38:18 PM
I ended up figuring that out on my own, nate. Thanks anyway but i do have another question. Is there another way to back-enter the main quarry besides the door from ore processing (after grapple beam)?
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/16/2004 11:46:56 PM
Alright, thanks kip. So, you're going to be taking the Tallon route, and testing to see weather the spiderless route is faster?
---
If you put your car into reverse, you move a negative distance - Stokely817
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/16/2004 11:50:00 PM
Also, so the :25 save you have at the end of the part 5 pre run...what do you expect from your final part 5?
---
If you put your car into reverse, you move a negative distance - Stokely817
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: kip | Posted: 3/17/2004 1:15:53 AM
well it'll still be :25 (prerun was 25:55), barring another earth shattering discovery along the way, but a lot more improvement is possible. i know :3x is "possible" from my save, but that assumes everything goes right, which never happens in speed runs, so i'm trying to get low :4x instead.

... got to say though, you seem really interested in this run. ;-) most people don't care, but i guess it makes sense since this will probably be little more than an ntsc version of zoidi's run, and everyone has seen that already.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/17/2004 1:33:04 AM
Heh, yeah. I know you're a very good player, and I'm interested to see what are the limits of a speed run. You dash jump like every chance you get...jeez. I didn't see you mess up that badly, maybe the furnace jump (I saw your new vid), but that is all I can see.
---
If you put your car into reverse, you move a negative distance - Stokely817
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/17/2004 1:52:12 PM
Well, kip, if this IS just an ntsc version of zoidi's run, then you'll be clocking in maybe a minute ahead of him, since PAL contains things that slowed zoidi down. That's a reason to show some interest. Where can i watch the vids?
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: kip | Posted: 3/17/2004 4:54:51 PM
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/

everything called "part#"
From: Radix37 | Posted: 3/17/2004 5:20:09 PM
then you'll be clocking in maybe a minute ahead of him, since PAL contains things that slowed zoidi down

Sorry but you're way off...zoidi had a 0:30 save after ice. Kip has a 0:25. After that point in the mines zoidi had to go through elite research instead of doing the dash in main quarry that kip can do. The prime form 2 fight for pal is over a minute longer than ntsc ... do the math :-)
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal 100% 1:37, Hard any% 1:45, Hard 100% 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/17/2004 5:47:46 PM
Well, i was making a cautious estimate, cuz i dont know all the ver. differences so i didnt want to overestimate the time he'll save. I knew it was at least 2 minutes he'd save... i think...
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: Black Devil | Posted: 3/17/2004 11:56:03 PM
Why didn't zoidi use one of the pirates to make the dash jump to that door? It seems like it would've been faster than going in the normal way.

Also, I'm definitely not an expert on sequence breaking and speed runs, but it looks like a sub one hour game might be possible one day. I'd be willing to bet that it will happen in less than a year. What do you guys think?
---
artificial intelligence will never be a match for natural stupidity~ Funky Buddha
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/17/2004 11:59:19 PM
how to know you really suck-

have a best ever time of 3:03 in a run where you almost did single segment following radix's 100% route (getting 95% >_> ) where you made so many mistakes and wasted so much time doing easy things its not funny. my only highlights are sjf on 3rd try after 1 month of not touching the game, early wild 2nd try, crossway missle 2nd or 3rd try, hall of elders tbj 5th try (having already activated both slots including wave >_> doh), gth dbj 1st try (boosted into the water >_> ) fixed mucho problemos con el l-lock spring jump to allow me to finally exit life grove early, hm..., 1 round OP (and I thought that was going to be hard >_> ), and that's really about it.

I'm going to cry myself to sleep tonight ;_; still stuck in Phazon mines with my speed run, I'll have to re-watch all radix's vids so I remember what to do >_<

also, I've noticed that really, the programming that controls morph ball bombs JUST barely doesn't allow us to quadruple bomb jump ;_; in some places, it might actually work on the same principle as ibj, but I'm just rambling now :/
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/18/2004 12:08:24 AM
how the hell will we cut 10 minutes off the best ever time once kip's run is done? btw that was a random, generous estimate in the favor of mistakes >_>
I can't see it being done. IMO, the most time cut off would be IF we found it saved a tremendous amount of time on ridley and MP by using more missle expansions.

but on the other hand, sub 1:10 is well within reach, as kip will prove :)

we'll have to really muster everything to bring it much lower, though ;_;
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Radix37 | Posted: 3/18/2004 12:28:40 AM
Why didn't zoidi use one of the pirates to make the dash jump to that door?

There's a lock on the door.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal 100% 1:37, Hard any% 1:45, Hard 100% 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: njahnke | Posted: 3/18/2004 5:26:37 AM
lol, at least give a reference url, radix. :P

http://www.metroid2002.com/version_differences_main_quarry_door.html
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/18/2004 4:45:46 PM
heh I thought Nate was getting upset..like he had to repeat the other way into elite research a lot since all I saw was, a broken record hehe

anyway, A broken record, here is the way up ore processing:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ore_processing.mp4

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/18/2004 5:48:08 PM
I can't see it being done. IMO, the most time cut off would be IF we found it saved a tremendous amount of time on ridley and MP by using more missle expansions.

no love ;(

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ridley_hard_30.mp4

Ridley cannot be done faster ;( with the was pb trick, but ended up being only boost..and rapid fire missiles, ridley is maximized since there is not much you can do with the air phaze..unless you were somehow able to boost into him in the air

OP, sheegoth, flaahgra, and parasite are pretty much optimized as well. Maybe a few seconds here and there, but nothing major.

Thardus, MP and the ever hated i.drone are what are left. Thardus would be really quick if you could fight him with 7 pb..just need a route for that. You will probably not fight ..hmmm..it in an any run, nor a low % run, but for 100%, it still needs work.

i.drone is unfortunately random..hopefully someone can find a way of making it peek up faster..but as far as we can tell, it is random :(

As for mp...those PALers have it easy ;( hehe If you noticed zoidi's run, he used ice spreader. For ntsc users to use it, they would need to get a lot more missiles since we do not get 10 missiles on the refill :(

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/18/2004 6:57:27 PM
tyzr, I said that because when fighting ridley and MP, you've got 2 bosses in a short amount of time that tend to really eat up missles. going to the missle refill station takes far too long, so if you have enough expansions, you possibly (in an any % run) take the no-spider route (sorry, but I'm not familiar with this route, this would only work going through the mines) and get the super missiles along the way... but I'm not too sure of that.

I really don't feel like thinking right now :/
if someone wants me to look at any areas for speed tricks or check out any bosses, I can do that. I also have AR, if that means anything :/

but now I'm just going to do a psuedo-low % run. :/ IM me if you have anything for me.
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/18/2004 7:10:55 PM
Thanks, Tzyr, that solves one problem, now all i have to do is get back to ore processing... i detest wave troopers and they're EVERYWHERE in that part of the mines... grr! But no one has answered my question about the main quarry. Is there another way to back-enter main quarry? I'm asking out of curiosity more than necessity now...
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 3/19/2004 12:53:58 AM
Doing a messy "speed-run" I ended up with a time of 2:05. Now I've been thinking of getting a tape so that I can record a run, but if Kip gets a new very good speed-run, will he have 2 runs on your list, or will his old be taken away? I would really like to know this so that I know if it would be worth recording it.
And can I stop recording when I've gotten to the save station to look for mistakes in my run, and then start recording as I save, or is that cheating? I have only one memory card which I can use for MP so I'd like to know this also.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 3/19/2004 3:07:02 AM
if Kip gets a new very good speed-run, will he have 2 runs on your list, or will his old be taken away?

The old one is bumped off, only one time per person in each category. The exception for low % where 22/23% speeds are a lot different. So to get 3rd place on the list you'd need to beat cal's 1:38 ... not hard at all. But actually thelastmetroid is working on this same task too!

And can I stop recording when I've gotten to the save station to look for mistakes in my run, and then start recording as I save, or is that cheating?

Not sure what you mean here.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal 100% 1:37, Hard any% 1:45, Hard 100% 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 3/19/2004 4:19:22 AM
I mean: Can I stop recording, look at what I've done, and then record the part of me saving, or is that breaking some kind of rule?
From: njahnke | Posted: 3/19/2004 8:43:00 AM
unknown, but imo if the video stream is broken, it should be assumed to be cheated, just because we can't ignore something that obvious.

also yeah, kip's 1:23 will be off the high scores when he does his 1:0X/1:1X, but the actual files for the 1:23 run will still be available on the weekends on m2k2 for reference purposes.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/19/2004 9:35:09 AM
...

A broken Record..I have no idea what you are going on about..if you can make it through ore processing, then you can get back to main quarry, so I did answer your question.

The only time you could not do that is if you own PAL, and you did not pick up the pb from Central Dynamo..but why would you do that?

There is only one room between ore processing and main quarry and that is waste disposal..and if you use boost, no worries of getting through..and I think you can even get through it without using boost.

------

about not recording the save. If you go all the way till the game says would you like to save, Yes/No, and stop, I would think that is ok for if you were getting unheard of times we could easily check..though because they are annoying to do, if you did cheat, bann0r ;p

but, if you meant you would stop half way, hit pause, stopped recording then checked, no, we would not allow that.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/19/2004 2:02:16 PM
Tzyr, you obviously don't get what i mean. What i mean is, since there's a forcefield barring the other entrance to main quarry, if you were to back-enter it through that particular door, is there a way through/around the forcefield?
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 3/19/2004 2:20:10 PM
I meant stopped recording at the "Do you want to save" screen.

I probably won't do that though, and I have to record at 50Hz PAL, since I have a bad, and old, VCR.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 3/19/2004 4:35:55 PM
kip, when do you think you'll finish your run? Just wondering.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/19/2004 6:10:00 PM
So to get 3rd place on the list you'd need to beat cal's 1:38 ... not hard at all.

Guess you're forgetting about my 1:32...

We had a little back-and-forth about this back when I completed it, if you remember. It ended up that my run, which would have had 3rd place, was completely ignored by everyone since I didn't have "complete video proof". I did complete an any% game in 1:32, though, whether or not anyone is willing to believe me. Sort of strange that my 2:14 100% was accepted on good faith, and this one was not.
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/19/2004 7:32:37 PM
How much "proof" exactly do you need to prove you did a speed run? The ending screen showing your time and percent? Or do you have to record the WHOLE thing?
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: Tzyr | Posted: 3/19/2004 8:14:03 PM
LeCoureur, it was a rule that was brought up a while ago, which was after your 100%. I have known them longer and added a lot to the site and they did not accept my time till I showed them all my vids of the run so dun worry about your time not being accepted. Not to mention, during my run I was posting the progress to the guys the whole time, and posted vids like OP 1 round, parasite in one round, 12 bomb sheegoth..as well as tricks I used to get items..yet my time was still not accepted till I uploaded the vids of the run.

So technically, most runs should not have been counted since there was no proof, but because there were not set rules, that is why your 100% run, and others were kept, and anything new has to be proven.

------

No, screen shots are not enough unfortunately. Vids are needed. You can either capture it yourself and send it to Nate (either online or if you are on dial-up, you could send the cd instead), or if you cannot capture, you can send a vhs tape to Nate. Just message him and he will give you the contact info you need to send him the tape.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Yuma Kai | Posted: 3/19/2004 9:16:16 PM
I am just starting with SB, and I'm having trouble with the Space Jump boots first trick! I can get it to lock on, and I can do the dash trick, but I'm just not going high enough, or far enough or straight enough to land on the ledge. Any extra tips?
---
../|,-‘`ŊŊ`\(o)_\,----,,,_…. LUEshi!
( `\(o),,_/` Ŋ : o : : :o `-, It's a cat...but it's a bat...but it's...curled up and stuff.
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/19/2004 11:45:14 PM
Looks like Monster ERB's topic needs another bump for Yuma Kai. Anyone care to do the honors?
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/20/2004 10:09:33 AM
I can see the logic behind all that... but still, it is frustrating to know that I did something and no one will recognize it.

I suppose I will just advertise it in my sig, as many people tend to do.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 3/20/2004 10:45:06 AM
LeCour is an active poster, and a valuable contributer to the topic. It's obvious that he knows a lot about MP, and probably has the skill to achieve a score like that. I think something about trust should be added to the rules, because not everybody has the opportunity to record their run. I see no reason his score shouldn't be added to the list.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/20/2004 2:20:37 PM
Nice part 5 kip! Other than one thing, it was a very nice run. What did you save at? Are you going to keep it? What is the next part?
---
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best.
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 3/20/2004 5:14:03 PM
I just beat MP with a time of 1:49, around 50%. My problem is that I ran out of tape during my sixth segment, and I didn't notice until I was at my eigth, so I'll have to restart my run. :(

Now, does anyone want to see bloopers? (Failed runs, I've lots of those).

Oh, and I HAD a recording of Flaaghra doing the SJ-bomb trick, and it didn't do a slashing attack, but instead did a breath attack, has this happend to anyone else, or was it due to me being too slow?
From: Radix37 | Posted: 3/20/2004 6:12:31 PM
ShadowJedi, do you have the PAL version? If so you'd only have to beat mills's 1:49 to get on the list! Also feel free to use 2 tapes if it won't fit on 1.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal 100% 1:37, Hard any% 1:45, Hard 100% 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: kip | Posted: 3/20/2004 8:49:03 PM
25:44, yeah i'll have to keep it, even though it annoys me that i could mess up something like that morph in crossway access west (threw away 2.603 right there). i messed up a few stupid things but hit everything hard perfectly. without mistakes/with a very lucky ghost fight, :3x is possible from the save like i said (and i think :1x in a new run).

but i figure it this way, this segment has about 4 seconds of mistakes... that's about as much as the intro, yet this is over twice its length (and part3's also). so i don't know if i should be that annoyed at myself.

i don't even know what the next part is, i have to check out the routes to see whether i get spider or not. ;-) one thing i want to try is getting across quarantine cave without waking up thardus, because i think that would eliminate the big weakness of the spiderless route (time wise).

and no idea when/if i'll be done.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/21/2004 12:43:24 AM
hey, kip, is there any reason that you skipped the hall of elders tbj in your run other than because it was too hard? or was that just a pre-run I was watching, and you're including it in the final?
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 3/21/2004 12:57:48 AM
Videogaming, you remember the Melee board, right? Where is this attitude of 'certain people should be trusted' over there?

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: kip | Posted: 3/21/2004 1:34:02 AM
well, i did a timing just now, and got 1.167 faster for the tbj. if you consider that it's possible to morph above the statue's glowing hands much faster than everyone always does (because no one wants to mess it up), the tbj becomes less than a second faster.

but actually, i did another timing comparing the 3 bombs at once thing vs the tbj, and the former was faster by .801 (because it takes less time to do one). so i think if you want to get out as fast as possible, you'd use that instead. it's around 1.5 faster than not bomb jumping.

we had another idea before, staying by the wave slot as you fight the ghost then getting into it as he's dying. if the game lets you activate the statue before the next cutscene, then this would be about 6 seconds better than any bomb jump in theory.

but for 100% it doesn't matter, because you need to bomb jump out so that there are no ghosts later, and then you don't have to fight for the tank.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/21/2004 10:25:49 AM
Videogaming: Thanks for the support. But if trust was an issue, Radix' 1:19 would be on the high score list, putting kip's 1:23 in 3rd place. So I wouldn't be on there anyway =(

kip: There's no way in hell you're getting through Q. Cave without fighting Thardus. I myself tried a while ago.

The trigger for the fight is a giant area that runs across the front of the room, right up to the walls. It's impossible to reach the door without going through the trigger area.

Supposing you could bypass it, though, how would you plan on getting up to the door? Unless I'm missing an invisible ledge somewhere, you're not getting up there.

During the actual fight with Thardus, it's possible to jump on top of him and then jump to the door area, but the door's locked. So you can't do that.

... but I'm guessing you already knew all that.

If you end up going through the Mines first (which I guess you'd HAVE to, what with no Spider Ball), don't forget my uber Main Quarry jump that gets you to the top in like 5 seconds!

---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/21/2004 10:30:44 AM
wait, so why won't you have to fight the ghosts when you come back later for the artifact? Are you automatically allowed to get the plasma bomb slot and ice door w/o beating the ghosts?
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 3/21/2004 11:40:33 AM
I'm working on a new 1:2x PAL run in light of zOidi's latest PAL MP run offerings.

I just wish that my damn capture card wouldn't keep losing synch with the sound so often. It's very annoying watching a run where the sound is about 5-10 seconds out of whack...

>=(

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 21st March 2004
From: homeless hobo | Posted: 3/21/2004 8:13:52 PM
ok, i got the thermal visor by going through frozen pike, then i went through quarantine cave and came out in front of the labs. Right now im in the observatory and the FMV didnt play. How do I get the Super Missiles?
---
someone say something stupid so i can sig it-----HRC-72450.3
From: kip | Posted: 3/22/2004 4:22:48 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/helpful_thardus.avi

ok, this is pretty new to me, so i don't know exactly how it works yet to get it more consistently. but enter the room, start by jumping on the same piece of thardus that i do. you don't take damage, slide off, or anything weird like that, so this is a nice place to prepare for the next steps.

now you want to climb higher on thardus by space jumping again. but the thing is, samus will violently fly away whenever you touch another piece, so the idea is to jump, then space jump as soon as you get hit to stop her movement (because you want to keep her away from the trigger area). time all your jumps carefully so you can control where she goes, and use her invulnerability time between taking hits to get around thardus and position yourself.

anyway, go to the same piece i eventually end up at in the video (that is, after i mess up and have to enter ball mode and roll away to try again). from this piece you can dash to the ledge by the other entrance door, but as you can see, sometimes the game doesn't always let you. that's the main problem, and i don't know what the deal is with that yet. i think touching thardus while standing on that piece makes you get stuck to him, until you get free by jumping (until the next time you get hit). just a theory though.

not much advice yet for actually making the dash. i guess if you're good at dashes it won't be much of a problem though.
From: z0idi | Posted: 3/22/2004 4:22:57 AM
homeless hobo:
http://www.metroid2002.com/other_thermal_visor_glitch.html

nitetrain8:
as far as I know, if you leave the hall of elders (via tbj or 3bj) without activating the wave beam slot cut scene, the room will be in the same state when you reenter it later, which means: no 3 ghosts, 3 slots ready to use and the glowing sphere in the hands of the statue ready to throw the morph ball.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/22/2004 8:41:35 AM
Wow kip! So I guess this makes the spiderless route seem to have a bit more potiental?
---
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best.
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
From: AgriasOaks | Posted: 3/22/2004 3:01:55 PM
Wow, you did it then. Go Kip go!

---
Super Metroid (cart) 100% Clear Time-1:00 / Zero Mission (Hard) 100% Clear Time-1:04:44
Dragon Quest 4 (PSX) Hero solo completed: Lv53 / Rank: Flawless Hero
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/22/2004 4:52:45 PM
Not that i know anything about this, but let's wait until we get times to see if this method kip has discovered is any better... I just assumed that's what ppl would naturally want... But, i myself am interested if kip's discovery makes the spiderless route significantly faster.
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/22/2004 5:44:53 PM
*jaw drops*

But... how did... if he... what the...

*dies*

I guess that's what "eating your words" is all about. But I don't WANT to eat them, I'm full, I just had tacos...
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/22/2004 7:41:02 PM
it certainly will make it much faster in any rate. the only problem, though, will be getting through quickly. keeping speed up to kip's normal standards, that gives him maybe 5-10 seconds of climbing to start the dash before he wastes time.

but in the video, though, it seems like kip got hit almost immediately after trying to dash in the 2 missed attempts, so maybe he couldn't dash because of that... I dunno :/

but that's definitely a great discovery.
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: PhantomFox | Posted: 3/22/2004 8:49:59 PM
So what does this exactly open up for a spiderless route? Or could it be used for speed runs?
---
"DF, Will this be just like the Link tryouts with the rooms and tights and stuff?"
From: homeless hobo | Posted: 3/22/2004 8:59:32 PM
i cant do the dash jump in the observatory...any suggestions? Also, could i just go through frozen pike, do the entire lab backwards, and come out at the top of the observatory?
---
someone say something stupid so i can sig it-----HRC-72450.3
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 3/23/2004 1:02:13 AM
the through- quarantine cave will definitely help, because the whole point of getting spider in an any% run is because it is extremely quick to go through that route compared to the one through the labs.

and for the dash in observatory- good luck ;) that's one of the hardest tricks in the game outside of skipping the boost ball or space jump.
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: kip | Posted: 3/23/2004 4:22:13 AM
honestly, i have no idea how much time it saves, if any. but it's another possible option for routes... maybe.
From: PhantomFox | Posted: 3/23/2004 10:06:38 AM
Is there a map of TallonIV and how long it takes to get through each segment? I'd like to see a map so I can figure out if this opens up any new routs.
---
"DF, Will this be just like the Link tryouts with the rooms and tights and stuff?"
From: njahnke | Posted: 3/23/2004 11:24:30 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/image_gallery/production_map.jpg
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: PhantomFox | Posted: 3/23/2004 12:41:32 PM
Well, that's nice.
Still doesn't help me compare route times though. I can't even tell which paths are one-way or how long they take!
---
"DF, Will this be just like the Link tryouts with the rooms and tights and stuff?"
From: njahnke | Posted: 3/23/2004 2:31:31 PM
neither can we, about the how long they take part. only timing video clips using virtualdub or another such program will tell. as far as one-way, just need to work on getting more familiar with the game, i guess.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: homeless hobo | Posted: 3/23/2004 8:15:37 PM
ok i give up on the observatory dash jump...can i just go through frozen pike, do the lab backwards, and come out at the top of the observatory???
---
The hunt for a sig continues...CRICKEY, did you see the size of that sig? OH...someone else got it...-----HRC-72450.3
From: chozun | Posted: 3/24/2004 8:20:42 AM
im currently working on a 22% run and if that does't the i'll get the boost ball and do a 23%run

I have the sjb, missile lancher, mb, and mbb
i have 4% and ive baeten flahagra 15+ times but i cant climb the tower to get the artifact of wild
i can use all of the tecniqes and im an expert at triple bomb jumps

any tips
---
I'm known Chozun the chosen Chozo
From: Videogaming | Posted: 3/24/2004 7:22:00 PM
If you can't do Wild, you might be in for some trouble for a 22%, or even a 23%. I recommend trying the individual sequence breaking tricks before actually doing a game.

As for actually getting Wild, I'm not the best person to ask...I have trouble doing it myself.
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 3/24/2004 7:35:00 PM
yeah, i'd strongly suggest doing at least a 23% game first.

as for early wild, assuming you can get at least to where you have to start laying bombs. You have to alter when you lay the next bomb depending on when the previous one explodes. if it explodes when you are near the top of the bomb, wait a brief moment before laying the next, and if it explodes when you are near the bottom of the bomb, lay it immediately after. once you lay a bomb about level with the ledge at the top, as soon as it explodes and you go into the air, hold up-right and unmorph. It may take a few tries to get right though.
---
~BtT-3:29.40~~HRC-60205.4~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 3/25/2004 5:39:10 AM
Well, I have a recorded a 1:46 any% run, and I've a video capture card, now all I need is a program to encode it into a smaller file type and somewhere to upload it. Any suggestions?

If you don't want to post it here, feel free to send me an E-mail at Jedi_Shadow_Ranger@hotmail.com .

Now...
I'm going to go train on doing a low% run, bye!
From: Radix37 | Posted: 3/25/2004 8:25:48 AM
Use VirtualDub www.virtualdub.org, with DivX for video and mp3 for audio.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal 100% 1:37, Hard any% 1:45, Hard 100% 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: chozun | Posted: 3/25/2004 1:57:52 PM
i think i may have found a new secret world!

in the sunchamber you stand on the flowerand then you try an jump onto one of the chozoheads that held up the mirrors. l can almost make it with an L lock spring jump so of ican get up there i pretty sure that i can jump through one of the holes in the ceiling if anybody could check this theory i would appreciate it and if this is old news then i am sorry
---
I'm known Chozun the chosen Chozo
From: chozun | Posted: 3/25/2004 2:00:20 PM
sorry wrong topic
---
I'm known Chozun the chosen Chozo
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 3/25/2004 3:29:17 PM
LOL

Anyway....
Have you guys found anything since the trick where you Dash-jump off a flying pirate in Phendrana to get to that root? Or have you just bummed around since then?
---
NEWS FLASH: Car bomb in New York... 4 casualties; Thankfully, no one was hurt.
Currently Playing: Jedi Knight II, Metroid Prime-Low %
From: PhantomFox | Posted: 3/25/2004 6:14:45 PM
Someone figured out how to get out of that place where Thardus is by the way you came in.

I think...
---
"DF, Will this be just like the Link tryouts with the rooms and tights and stuff?"
From: pirate109 | Posted: 3/26/2004 9:30:30 AM
Hi, ive been trying for a spiderless run for ages now but theres one problem i have - MQA. Ive tried the dash method, and failed again and again, but after watching Zoidi's 1:17 i saw another way that looks a lot quicker and easier. He seems to jump on a frozen metroid, jump to a small ledge on the spider track and jump to the door. Ive tried this, but once im on the frozen 'troid i cant seem to jump again. Does anyone know how this can be done consistently?
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 3/28/2004 7:42:55 AM
This is a call out for ALL confirmed (proven) and unconfirmed (unproven) speed/low%/100% runs to be posted here please so I can update my MPrime world records page on Samus.co.uk.

I'll happily accept unconfirmed runs from players who cannot prove themselves, but they will only be recognised as unconfirmed.

Get posting!

Andrew "Metroid Speed Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 28th March 2004
From: pirate109 | Posted: 3/28/2004 8:20:28 AM
normal any %: 1:35, 40%
normal one-hundred %: 1:59
hard one hundred % items and scans: 4:25
frigate escape: 4:15:?? (have no way of knowing the final 2 digits)

all done on PAL version
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 3/28/2004 10:29:38 AM
Check teh sig, and all will be revealed ;)
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: A broken record | Posted: 3/28/2004 11:30:42 AM
Besides the 12 artifacts, what are the items you normally collect for a 22% or 23% run? I'd like to try one, but i don't know what to collect (exactly) and what to skip.
---
"SAMUS SMASH!!!!"-thecadillacboy
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 3/28/2004 11:38:39 AM
space jump
missiles
morph ball
bombs
varia
boost ball (maybe)
wave beam
ice beam
power bombs
plasma beam
x-ray visor

---
~BtT-3:29.40~~HRC-60205.4~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: pilantra | Posted: 3/28/2004 11:57:07 AM
---
pil
wow!!! lecourier thats a fast time you are getting good in this game, i guess radix video open up a whole new can of worms hehehehe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my question is! how can i do a low % run but still get all the essentials, minimum for a novice i guess 23% is out of question.....i was thinking starting with 37 % and cut in the Energy tanks one by one until i get to 24% im going to get spider i cannot do those trick dash jumps some but not all.....i will be happy with a 24 %.....
From: Black Devil | Posted: 3/28/2004 1:34:23 PM
low percent normal: 24% 2:06
any percent normal: 39% 1:34
frigate escape: 4:04:??

I have the original NTSC version.

---
artificial intelligence will never be a match for natural stupidity~ Funky Buddha
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 3/28/2004 3:46:18 PM
I've PAL, 1:46 any%.
Will try to get my recordings into my computer this week.

Anywho.
If someone has tried this before, just say so (one person is enough to tell me that).
I thought I'd check if I could beat Metroid Prime without Phazon Suit, and I noticed I can't. Although I did get early newborn on my first AND third try. I survived on my way back after the third.
That's all!
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/28/2004 10:21:49 PM
kip, how comes the progress?

Another thing...what is the significance of the 'commentary' folder in your directory?

One last thing, are you starting a new speed run? I've noticed your new amazing escape time!
---
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin
From: kip | Posted: 3/29/2004 12:02:10 AM
hi, no progress for a while i think. i recently got done doing a prerun of 3 different routes but i don't know how long it might take to see which one is fastest. there is another problem, whether to get sun/strength as you're leaving magmoor after the first mines trip, or right at the end using the thardus dash to avoid fighting him. i think the difference is in seconds, so it's really hard to determine even with preruns.

the commentary folder is where i'm putting videos to go with written commentary (if i do it). there are a lot of times where i want to explain an alternate way through a room i didn't take due to inconsistency/not knowing, or show faster videos of fights that i did poorly (like parasite queen), and it just doesn't work with words.

for example... one of the videos is called "forcefield difference" and if you watch it after reading what i had to say about the first room, it shows that there's a reason for l-jumping after taking down the first forcefield. if she isn't close enough to the scan point when it completes, she doesn't "teleport" next to it in the cutscene, and that slows you down a lot on the second forcefield (you can see how i try to cope with it in that video, but it doesn't work out well; it's meant to show you want to avoid the whole thing if you can).

writing commentary this soon is a bit pretentious, i know. but i decided that even if i don't do it, i'd rather write something while i still remember what i wanted to say about each room, than finish the run and then decide i want to do commentary.

and nope, not doing a new run. i can't attempt the next part yet because i don't even know where i'm going for it, so i just decided to mess around and see if i could beat the old time.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 3/29/2004 12:34:53 AM
I like the commentary idea, it really helped people like me follow Radix's run more carefully.

Alright man, keep up the good work, and as always, keep us posted!

Might I inquire as to which three (different) routes you're taking? One has to be the Thardus skip, I'd assume.
---
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin
From: pirate109 | Posted: 3/29/2004 1:07:50 AM
just a minor scores update (for Mill's site)- in my last post i said i had a normal 100% time of 1:59, but ive just fought the boss again and managed 1:58.
From: kip | Posted: 3/29/2004 2:21:09 AM
one route is the 1:23 route, with no changes except getting the life grove items in the same segment as the power bomb before going to save.

the second route is what zoidi did in his 1:17, going to the mines right after ice, rather than to plasma (and never getting spider ball).

the third route is the 1:23 route except not fighting thardus also, using the dash to pass through quarantine cave instead at the end of the game.

but the weird thing is, the thardus dash seems to be an individual choice not exclusive to any route; the mines after ice route can use it if it wants to, because it's just a different way to reaching sun. but is it better than getting sun/strength after plasma on that route? no idea.

so not only does a route have to be decided, but whether or not to use the thardus dash for getting sun/strength. i think the former will be easier to tell... the sun/strength issue has seemingly everyone confused.
From: pirate109 | Posted: 3/29/2004 11:41:52 AM
my god kip, that is one hell of a frigate escape time u got, i thought that ur 4:26:00 would never be beaten. It was that instant unmorph in the electricity room near the end that made the difference, wasn't it?
From: kip | Posted: 3/29/2004 2:33:59 PM
i don't know, the time at ridley's cutscene was a lot better than last time. once i saw what it was i figured i would beat it (but not by that much). my problem was that i rarely got to him with a similar/better time.

i think the unmorph helped though.
From: dartsarecool9 | Posted: 3/30/2004 7:39:54 PM
bump
---
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
-Dark Helmet
From: homeless hobo | Posted: 3/30/2004 10:41:20 PM
ARRGGH...

I do the lab backwards only to find that their is a forcefield out covering the exit (actually entrance) to research lab aether...back to practicing the observatory dash jump i guess...
---
OOOOOOOOh, now i get what it is!!!!!! It's a Yoshi with Mario on da top///Who's LUE?-GoYoshi-----HRC-72450.3
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 4/2/2004 8:02:49 AM
Ice beam before Flaahgra has been confirmed!

FLAMANCIPATOR has pulled off this amazing sequence break!

More info to come...
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/2/2004 8:19:23 AM
how is that possible? i thought the varia suit was necessary to get through magmoor for wave beam, and you must have wave beam to get ice.....did you manage to get the training chamber tank early or something?
From: Tyrant02 | Posted: 4/2/2004 6:22:47 PM
where can i go to see the speed runs
---
....awkward....
From: chibi super shadow | Posted: 4/2/2004 6:41:33 PM
He used Secret Worlds to reach the Ice Beam.
---
Quote of the day
"But why the rum?" - Captain Jack Sparrow, Pirates of the Caribbean
From: Artie Pie | Posted: 4/3/2004 2:17:20 AM
Sweeeet, CtrlAltDestroy mentioned my name.

Well, my alter ego anyway.

Yes, despite what anyone will tell me and noobs will try to flame me and say that I'm lying cuz i havnt got vaira n beeten fligrha and everything under the sun, I have achieved Ice Beam before Flaaghra. This is not some psycho quick run through Magmoor, either. One thing I don't know if anyone understands is that I haven't even picked up the Wave Beam yet! Here's exactly where I've been since the beginning of my game:

(asteriks mean room in SW state)

Main Plaza
Ruined Fountain
Arboretum
Gathering Hall
*SW17 in Gathering Hall*
*East Atrium*
*Energy Core Access*
*Energy Core*
*West Furnace Access*
*Furnace*
*Crossway Access West*
*Crossway*
*Hall of the Elders Access*
door warp into:
Hall of the Elders
triple bomb jump into:
Antechamber

^_^ hooray! I didn't just make a quick dash through Magmoor, the only place I've been is Chozo Ruins. That makes this sequence break exponentially cooler. BoostR is now recognized as having discovered the most USEFUL secret world as it is now part of the biggest sequence break in a loooong time.

Andrew Mills is working with me on confirming my methods of obtaining the Ice Beam before fighting Flaaghra, maybe even making a video of the run. This is no crackpot method either, it works 100% of the time. It can just take a lot of wallcrawling practise, patience, and some ghetto jumping skill to make it into SW17.

So now I've managed to unite Secret Worlds with Sequence Breaking. I guess now we can all get along <3

You may also be happy to notice that some other minor sequence breaks are necessary to get this. A tbj in HOTE is needed to get to Reflecting Pool, and the ghetto jump off the stone toad is needed to get to Antechamber (Although, it's possible to just wallcrawl past HOTE altogether and just door warp into Reflecting Pool). So I must give credit to whoever discovered those as well!

Oh and one last thing. By what I heard from Radix, someone had considered this before but got stumped by the purple door to crossway? Muahahaha, I figured out a way around that little obstacle. Once Andrew confirms this SB, then I'll be posting up my long and difficult run starting from Gathering Hall all the way to Antechamber. Seems crazy, doesn't it? Yes, it does, but not impossible :-).

~Flamy
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 4/3/2004 4:55:12 AM
*coughs*

The person who said that getting past the purple door wasn't possible was me. This was ages ago mind, before we knew anything about being able to secretize a room and then shooting IT'S door while in a SW state.

So, that's my - legitimate - defence on the matter.

Oh, and if anyone wishes to see a video of wallcrawling and/or "door warping" in action, try out these links:

Wallcrawling:
http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/wallcrawling.zip (2.27 Megs - zipped MPEG)

Door Warping:
http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/door_warping.zip (1.97 Megs - zipped MPEG)

Enjoy.

Andrew "Metroid Prime SW Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 3rd April 2004
From: AgriasOaks | Posted: 4/3/2004 12:11:27 PM
Does it actually save time though?

---
Super Metroid (cart) 100% Clear Time-1:00 / Zero Mission (Hard) 100% Clear Time-1:04:44
Dragon Quest 4 (PSX) Hero solo completed: Lv53 / Rank: Flawless Hero
From: Artie Pie | Posted: 4/3/2004 1:03:51 PM
The whole point of this incredible sequence break isn't to save time, it's just to be a sequence break! My few files in Gathering Hall saved where I have the Ice Beam before Flaaghra, their times are 1:15, 3:50, and 4:10. It essentially takes an hour to go from Gathering Hall to get the Ice Beam before Flaaghra. Is it worth it? Yes, because this is the next huge hurdle in skipping Varia! And there's so many other possibilities too ^_^.

~flamy
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/3/2004 1:45:38 PM
after tons of patience, practise and frustration, i finally achieved the spiderless

normal any %- 1:26 (PAL)

will most likely stay this way for a LONG time, i have no intention of doing that again for a while. someday though, i will beat zoidi.

p.s- by the way, i know ive been updating my best times a lot recently, so you may think im cheating, but i'll happily answer any questions about my run if that helps make it more easy to believe.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 4/3/2004 2:09:12 PM
Ice Before Flaahgra has now been CONFIRMED by me!

And here's the movie to PROVE it's possible...

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/ice_before_flaahgra.zip (3.5 Megs)

Enjoy people. Enjoy...

Andrew "Ice Before Flaahgra Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 3rd April 2004
From: Artie Pie | Posted: 4/3/2004 2:17:38 PM
Andy's video is great proof, but don't be mad if it's not exactly instructional on how to actually get the Ice Beam before flaaghra. That would be one huge movie!

I'll be making a large writeup this afternoon with my confirmed method of doing it. I hope everyone can soon come join me in Antechamber so we can begin our no Varia runs :-D

~flamy
From: AgriasOaks | Posted: 4/3/2004 3:52:41 PM
It essentially takes an hour to go from Gathering Hall to get the Ice Beam before Flaaghra.

Oh. *loses interest*.

Cool find regardless, but if half a run is getting 1 item..meh.

Andrew, turn your volume down when you record!! My ears. :/

---
Super Metroid (cart) 100% Clear Time-1:00 / Zero Mission (Hard) 100% Clear Time-1:04:44
Dragon Quest 4 (PSX) Hero solo completed: Lv53 / Rank: Flawless Hero
From: shoyrudude555 | Posted: 4/4/2004 8:55:07 PM
From: Artie Pie | Posted: 4/3/2004 4:48:49 PM | Message Detail
For all you lower percenters out there who don't seem to be interested with Ice Beam before Flaaghra...

There is an easy way to bypass having to do those insane bomb jumps in Ventilation Shaft using Secret World #5. I've gone through Ventilation Shaft without Boost Ball using SW5 twice now, and it's really not that difficult. On the other side of Vent Shaft you can just door warp right back in, and I guarantee it takes much less time than trying that bomb jump for a few hours.

So yes, I know where you can use Secret Worlds to help you out in ventilation shaft. If you're curious just let me know and I'll post up how to do it.


From the SW topic.

---
~ shoyrudude555 ~ Save the Dragons
The point of Life is to revive fallen party members. -otaku
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/5/2004 9:26:35 AM
how's the 21% game coming along? just asking cos there hasn't been much about this for a while.
From: Artie Pie | Posted: 4/5/2004 10:36:43 PM
Here's how to get past ventilation shaft in a low percent game where you actually acquire the SJ:

Get into Secret World #5 ( http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime/secret_world_5.shtml )

Once you're there, fall below the stage and walk over to where the ice beam door to Ventilation Shaft would be (if you weren't 100 feet below it). Stand a few feet back from it and begin the "float" up to the door. This could take half an hour, so have a bit of patience. There's an easier way, but it requires a lot of wallcrawling experience. Anyway, once you're at the door, walk right on top of it and shoot it so it turns grey. Then, lock your view in any direction, jump down off the door, and allow yourself to fall a foot or so beside the door, then space jump back onto the door. It will then turn white. Lock your view in any direction and jump in the direction of Ventilation Shaft from above the door. It will load out of thin air. Then, ensure that your map says that you're in Vent Shaft. If not, strafe back and forth over the door until it says you're in VS. Again, grey the door and jump off it then space jump back on. This will "dump" Omega Research. Turn back around and space jump and bomb jump your way over the roof of VS and get to the door leading to the next room away from Omega Research. Once you get to this door, stand over top of the door and strafe a few feet in the direction of where the next room should be. Turn back and face the direction of the door and it should be a few feet below you. Go to morph ball form and allow yourself to fall just a few feet, and you should find yourself standing right in front of the door. Shoot it, and after a few seconds, the room will load around you. Walk back into VS and allow the door to close behind you, and you'll notice that you've bypassed VS completely and eliminated the need for that nasty bomb jump. Proceed in the opposite direction away from VS, proudly holding your head high :)

~Flamy
From: Gice | Posted: 4/6/2004 12:58:03 PM
I am happy to anounce that a (soon to be) confirmed "100% PAL" German (pre)run is done:

100% with 2.39 by me (Gice)

I will start the real Run next Week, when i am finished with counting and timing my (many) Mistakes, so far difficult to say, but my Goal is to beat that till today unconfirmed Run with 1.58, and i think it should be possible =) (yeah, i made that many mistakes *cough*

Thx for Listening

Gice
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/6/2004 1:37:36 PM
Gice: im the guy who got the 1:58, and 100% on PAL makes it really tough on you, doesn't it? mainly cos you need to get the missile in grav chamber using the crazy hard glitch on entering for the first time- damn that door lock on waste disposal preventing us PAL players from early grapple! one more question, do you get artifact early or late? i opted for late, it fits in better with my route. anyway, good luck on beating my time.
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/6/2004 1:40:44 PM
sorry, stupid typo, i meant 'do you get artifact of wild early or late?'
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 4/6/2004 6:01:22 PM
Say... I just thought of possible solutions to Great Tree Hall and Phendrana's Edge in the 21% game, meaning Geo Core would be the only problem (again)!

Wallcrawling, folks. That's right, you'd have to be using secret worlds to aid the low percent effort, but can't we all look past that for the betterment of mankind?!

Tallon Over world has a number of secret worlds that could be used to bypass Great Tree Hall. I'm thinking you could use one of the Vent Shafts in the crashed frigate, crawl all the way to Life Grove, and drop back into the playing area! It'd be an EXTREMELY long wallcrawl, but there shouldn't be a problem actually succeeding.

For Phendrana's Edge, you could use any ol' secret world in Phendrana (to be honest, I don't know where the closest one is) and make another uber-crawl to Phendrana's Edge and door warp to the Artifact or drop to the artifact's ledge from the secret world. You'd have to get into the secret world WITHOUT Space Jump though, which might be a problem.

After that, Geo Core's the only problem left! So how 'bout it, sequence breakers? Some wallcrawling for the low% game?
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: Artie Pie | Posted: 4/6/2004 6:08:01 PM
Ohhh very sorry to report, LeCoureur, but it just wouldn't work too well. I WISH it did, but the real objective is skipping space jump and... even though SW13-15 don't require it, all the secret worlds of Phendrana DO. And besides, SW13-15 are very difficult to wallcrawl, even for Andrew and myself and I'm sure many other pro wallcrawlers out there are experiencing it too. Those doors in there are tough cookies.

~Flamy
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 4/6/2004 6:09:51 PM
the ventilation shaft A SW is the only one that I know of that could be accessed w/o SJ. but as it is, it would be better to find a SW to aid with geo core. as of now, we can hardly beat geo WITH space jump without boost, and we can't with boost w/o sj. if you could somehow activate the bomb slot from inside given SW, then use the cutscene to re-enter the game, you maybe could then go back, enter the SW, and then wallcrawl to the ice door, but that is such a rediculous idea that it isn't even funny :/
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 4/6/2004 6:23:20 PM
This topic here is full of people who invented uber 1337 bomb jumps and use them to get places and do things you wouldn't believe. Vent shaft, anyone? Wall triple bomb jump? 4bj??? I'm sure at least ONE of the Phendrana SW's can be gotten into through some crazy bomb work... I practically GUARANTEE it!

The crashed frigate SW's are hard to crawl? Well... umm... just 'crawl BETTER!
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: Gice | Posted: 4/7/2004 5:39:06 AM
Hey Pirate =)

Yeah, it is hard to do a good PAL 100%, but my Problem was not the "Routing", more the Playing ;)
I came up with plenty of Options on the Route, but my Playing Skills just destroyed them...

f.e. grav chamber missile on first try *naaaaa*
i come back with grapple (although this is the part, that i WANT to change, it is possible to do the back of phendrana in one single piece, but i didnt get quarantine monitor with dash-jumping, so i had to come back anyway. apart from grav chamber with dash-jumping is so random, and i hate waiting...)

I do late wild, just again simply because i dont get early wild to work (and i think later wild is faster, but still have to time this... with x-ray and super at least it has to be faster)
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/7/2004 6:07:39 AM
hey Gice:)

i didn't even know you could dash jump to quarantine monitor! how do you do that? not that it would help my time, since in my route i go to quarantine monitor after getting grapple while heading back through phendrana to pick up the tank in ruined courtyard, various missiles in ice ruins west/east and to get the artifact in chapel of elders.

----------
top 5 games: 1)ocarina of time, 2) metroid prime, 3) a link to the past, 4) super metroid, 5) smash bros. melee
From: Quasarblast | Posted: 4/7/2004 2:15:12 PM
HELP THE LINK http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_runs.html UPLOADED A VIRUS ONTO MY FRIENDS COMPUTER PLEASE HELP WHAT WILL IT DO DID ANYONE ELSE HAVE THIS PROBLEM PLEASE HELP!

Translation: The link, http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_runs.html apparently uploaded a virus onto my friends computer. It took us to a screen that said something like ERROR 407 Found By YOU! The site toolbar (for the Metroid2002 speed runs) was still displayed across the top of the screen. Our computer made a buzzing noise. We instantly exited the program and shut off the computer, but havent turned it back on yet. (I am making this message from my house)
1.Has anyone else had this problem?
2.If so, what are its effects?
3.Am I screwed?
4.If there is a problem, how can I stop it?

Thankyou and GOD BLESS you if you help us. Sorry for the semi off topic post but I REALLY dont want to get in trouble for this and the contents of this site is mostly known to those at this topic.

Thank you to 600th power.

---
"Your lives that I spit on are now but a caricature of a cartoon drawn by a kid who is stupid!"
-Fawful, Mario and Luigi
From: Gice | Posted: 4/7/2004 2:32:22 PM
@quasarblast

youīre not serious, are you? (maybe some kind of insiderjoke?)

if you are, the only Solution would be to throw your PC out of the window (doesnīt matter if closed or not) and let it fall minimum 30 feet to get rid of the virus.

[...]

just kidding, this was no virus, itīs just the 404 screen with the noise that the crashed Prime makes (i hate nate for that ;)

so, ITīS ALL OKAY!!!oneeleven
NO NEED TO FREAK OUT

P.S. sorry to ba that sarcastic but it couldnīt resist
From: Quasarblast | Posted: 4/7/2004 2:38:36 PM
But what about the
Found By YOU! thing does that mean anything????

ps. Thanks for helping me man I really appreciate it
---
"Your lives that I spit on are now but a caricature of a cartoon drawn by a kid who is stupid!"
-Fawful, Mario and Luigi
From: Quasarblast | Posted: 4/7/2004 2:39:33 PM
yeah and Im dead completely serious if you think Im not
---
"Your lives that I spit on are now but a caricature of a cartoon drawn by a kid who is stupid!"
-Fawful, Mario and Luigi
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 4/7/2004 2:48:33 PM
You've got the Metroid Prime virus. You need to put on the morphong shoes, beat Raik, one of the secret bosses of Super Metroid, and dance on your computer to fix it.
---
I'm not just any candy, I'm a JAWBREAKER, the strongest candy there is, Veggeto
Xin
From: njahnke | Posted: 4/7/2004 9:27:23 PM
don't forget about hooting varfia with the wood beam while whoring the fussion suite.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Videogaming | Posted: 4/7/2004 11:42:01 PM
and don't forget completing the 21% game without taking a hit.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 4/11/2004 5:04:59 AM
Come on People!!!

Icebeam Before Flaahgra and Varialess Magmoor are NOW possible! Why aren't you lot discussing this in here for!? o_O

*pokes all the MP SB'ers in the ribs*

Think of all the NEW sequence breaks and discoveries waiting! Kill Flaahgra with just the wavebuster!

*pokes all the MP SB'ers in the ribs again*

Surely this now means that an agreed on NBMB run can be devised... (Agreed on in terms of which bosses are allowed).

*sighs*

It's no use people, we've lost them. Time of death, a while ago.

Andrew "Metroid SW/SB Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 11th April 2004
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 4/11/2004 12:09:28 PM
Maybe there isn't a discussion about that because Varia-less magmoor is pretty damn hard in PAL? I tried, and I can get about half-way. Although I havn't tried the early Icebeam yet. I think that this may be a bump, not sure though.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 4/11/2004 12:31:30 PM
NBMB?
From: G4ORCE | Posted: 4/11/2004 1:24:32 PM
Me too, what's NBMB? Oh, by the way, my name is Andrew too!

Andrew "copy monkey" McRae lol
---
Do people really read signatures? Wait, you're reading it!
From: PhantomFox | Posted: 4/11/2004 1:56:21 PM
I believe a NBMB means "No boss/miniboss"
---
"Prepare to die you exoskeletal sextapedic mostrocity!"
MORAL JENGA!
From: ShadowJedi | Posted: 4/13/2004 4:27:48 AM
It sure is No Boss/MiniBoss (or something of the sort).

Now this may seem like a bump, but I have a question.
How could you let this topic fall to page 4???
From: G4ORCE | Posted: 4/13/2004 8:16:20 PM
OK, thanks, I also did that link with the guy saying he thought he had a virus, and I kinda got freaked out too, lol.
---
Do people really read signatures? Wait, you're reading it!
From: Mew2King | Posted: 4/14/2004 3:44:04 AM
woah, look how far this place has come with tree jumping and bomb blasting stunts to zoon through areas quickly. Anyway, just out of curiosity, you know that room near teh middlish of teh game, that you get some item in teh center of it, then plant a Power Bomb to destory the walls, then go up some ledges around some 'treeish' place and tehn fight Choze Ghosts in it (and some Choze Artifact is in it in the water or something too). Well ANYWAY, how high could anyone ever climb up ths trees, because I remember once getting liek 3 or 4 jumps up or something, around teh middle branches jumpign up them, though its extremely hard and frustruating when you miss as you fall all the way back down again. Can you like go out of the course or something?
---
http://hometown.aol.com/flamefrier/myhomepage/profile.html
has MK:DD, F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, SSBM
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 4/17/2004 10:01:03 AM
Just a spot of Bumpage in action.

Andrew "Metroid Bump Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 17th April 2004
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 4/17/2004 10:12:14 AM
actually andrew... wavebuster does not affect flaahgra. I've tried w/ AR ;P

however, this -may- mean we can get everything before flaahgra and thardus, but there are a couple missle expansions in the middle of Magmoor that may push it a little...
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 4/17/2004 12:45:46 PM
Well, according to LeCoueur he managed to KILL Flaahgra with JUST the Wavebuster. And I have to say, he's trust worthy enough. So I'd wager the AR affected the Wavebuster like it seems to have my immuneness to Phazon with just powersuit... =/

Andrew "Metroid SW Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 17th April 2004
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 4/17/2004 3:57:00 PM
Technically, I didn't use JUST the Wavebuster... I used 2 or 3 of the bomb slots to weaken him, as 250 missiles is not enough to drain his entire health bar. But that shouldn't make any difference about whether or not the Wavebuster would hurt him, should it?
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: Artie Pie | Posted: 4/17/2004 4:36:41 PM
Mew2King: Yes, you can "jump out of the course" in that room you're talking about, Life Grove. It happens to be Secret World #16, but you're looking in the wrong thread. Check the secret world discussion topic or www.samus.co.uk if you're interested.

~Artie 8)
From: smilingjack13 | Posted: 4/19/2004 5:17:43 PM
I just finished my low percent speed run.

1:25 with 23%

I elaborated more on the run here:

http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=454&start=75
---
Modesty is one of my many great qualities.
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 4/21/2004 5:34:28 AM
Andrew:
I'd like to know how far you can get up Geo Core without sj/grapple beam/boost. I have been away for quite a while, and I would like to catch up on the 21% game.
--- Town:Tyo Vil Name:Patrick
From: njahnke | Posted: 4/21/2004 8:24:36 AM
good job, s.jack. i eagerly await your ability to record.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/21/2004 9:37:42 AM
just thought id let u lot know im beginning a normal any% run on PAL version, with hopes of beating Zoidi's WR. (my best time so far is 9 mins off). im also recording, so i was thinking that njahnke could put it on the web for me (assuming, of course, i get a decent enough time) as it says on his site that he can do that. Would that be OK nate?
From: njahnke | Posted: 4/21/2004 3:05:22 PM
definitely. just send me an email when you are ready. if you're just starting your new run, try to remember to turn the brightness in the game all the way up, and also to record your tape on SP speed if at all possible.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/22/2004 1:08:26 AM
Ok cheers Nate that'd be great. I may not be done for ages though, i need to get each section perfect if im going for the WR.
From: giggs | Posted: 4/22/2004 11:07:13 AM
VERY nice part 6 kip!! o_O Are you going to follow zoidi's route?
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: MrGuru | Posted: 4/22/2004 1:05:13 PM
Yes, quite the awesome part 6! I'm just going to wait and see what kip has to say about it. :)
---
the-elite.net
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin 18/19
From: The Mario King | Posted: 4/23/2004 8:15:13 AM
This post has nothing to do with sequence breaking or time ranking but I do have something to say.
On www.metroid2002.com they always talk about a Japanese, European, Australian and North American Player's Choice version. Like on the page for example:
http://www.metroid2002.com/version_differences_arboretum_runic_gate.html

But there is also a European Player's Choice version. I don't know much about the difference but one thing I do know is that it has the ability to perform a dash using the scan visor.

I typed it here, 'cause Metroid2002 is all about sequence breaking too and there must be some guys in this topic who have something to do with that site!
From: kip | Posted: 4/23/2004 8:31:27 AM
are you guys kidding? dropping any sense of modesty for just a moment, i honestly thought it wasn't great, except for the power bomb maze which is luck.

i had a lot of runs that were much better than that one (some with the bars on first try and just being slightly faster in some other rooms), but i kept getting horrible mazes where i would lose like 10 seconds to a maze like the one in radix's run. every time i got a good maze, the run itself wasn't as good. i only got a good maze twice, and the bars was on second try both times (took 24 visits to central dynamo for the first maze, then i decided to redo the segment and got the maze in this video on the 6th or 7th visit).

i kept telling myself not to accept bars on second try but always ended up doing that anyway. so i could still improve the segment by about 3-4 more seconds, but i guess i won't because the rest of the run is already flawed (for example, believe it or not but the intro can still be done 4 seconds better... yet i went on because i felt i can't do much better).

and it looks like i'll go the same route as zoidi, except getting sun/strength right after spirit and elder using the thardus dash, instead of getting them after plasma.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 4/23/2004 10:27:31 AM
Point being: It's a lot better than I can do, and it was a good run minus the bars.

Yes, you could've jumped the bars on the first try, but so what? It's like a :04 second cut. That's it. It's still a decent run :)

So, you're skipping Thardus? ooo, I can't wait to see a quick skip. :)
---
the-elite.net
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin 19/20
From: giggs | Posted: 4/23/2004 2:54:04 PM
Kip, what time did you save at in central dynamo?
And what time are you aiming for?
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 4/23/2004 6:04:41 PM
kip, I do not have the liberty of watching huge-ass movies, so you must tell me... did you use my uber-shortcut in Main Quarry? In which you jump straight up to the catwalks from the entrance to the room? If you didn't, then you must re-do the segment and include it ;)
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: tomatobob | Posted: 4/23/2004 6:06:37 PM
yes, he did.
---
Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid.
From: njahnke | Posted: 4/23/2004 6:09:50 PM
kip, sorry i had to miss you on irc last night. things have been pretty crazy around here without my main machine. i thought the segment was spectacular, especially the maze, with the exception of the bars, obviously. the only other thing i really noticed was vent shaft. in my opinion, it carries the standard seen in previous segments, and that's all you really have to worry about. we already talked about this, but briefly, you're not getting a perfect prime run, and no one else is, either.

really would be a nice surprise for me if it were almost done when i get back from europe. :) obviously not rushing you or anything, just would be wild to watch more than one new segment of your run in one session. i have a few crazy ideas in my head related to your run that we will have to talk about whenever i can seem to be online the same time as you.

good luck with part seven.

also, The Mario King, that is rather unbelievable to me - how did you find this out? and can anyone corroborate what he is saying? i was told the pal player's choice version is identical to the first pal release.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Radix37 | Posted: 4/23/2004 10:17:27 PM
kip, I do not have the liberty of watching huge-ass movies

Modems can download files too.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal 100% 1:37, Hard any% 1:45, Hard 100% 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 4/23/2004 11:15:25 PM
Yeah, I'm definitely living proof of that, Radix.

kip, if you want to see a segment that shouldn't have been taken for a part 7, just wait until you see mine.

I just wish I had another card to copy it to so I could restart if I didn't get a time I liked.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: Gice | Posted: 4/24/2004 2:24:03 AM
as I told Kip, except for the bars, his new Segment is awesome, espiacelly (at least for me) his boosting is grrrrreat...
and the maze? wow, donīt know how he did it, but i have to try it myself.

as for Mario about the PC version of PAL, i am going to buy one today, but i canīt think it is true, that you can scan-dash... (how retarded would that be?)

Gice
From: The Mario King | Posted: 4/24/2004 9:36:13 AM
@Kip: I tested it with my own copy of the player's Choice PAL version! I could dash while scanning...
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 4/24/2004 9:38:03 AM
kip: how far could you get up Geo Core w/o sj/grapple/boost?
--- Town:Tyo Vil Name:Patrick
From: Tah Roy | Posted: 4/24/2004 10:50:00 AM
Hey all,just registered here,for the guys who dont know me:I'm Roy of the Metroid2002 forums =p
From: MrGuru | Posted: 4/24/2004 12:25:12 PM
Well, whatever the case, good luck with part 7, kip.

As Nate said, it holds up to the same standards as your previous runs.
---
the-elite.net
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin 19/21
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/24/2004 12:27:35 PM
so is the PAL players choice version identical to the original NTSC version, or is it just the fact that u can scan-dash that makes it different to the normal PAL version? (as in, is there still bendezium blocking plasma processing, and is there still a door-lock on waste disposal until u get grapple?)
From: giggs | Posted: 4/24/2004 1:52:04 PM
A friend of mine who has the PAL PC version told me you couldn't dash using the scan visor...
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: The Mario King | Posted: 4/24/2004 3:04:51 PM
Uh.... I don't know about the waste disposal door (at the main quarry, right?) but there is a brendezium blocking the plasma center.
From: njahnke | Posted: 4/24/2004 3:16:05 PM
the difficulty in asking someone to inform us on whether scan dashing is possible is that they will probably only have one copy of the game, and they will not even know what scan dashing means if they've never done it before.

what i suggest is you try to do space jump first with the original na scan dash method (check http://www.metroid2002.com/sequence_breaking_introduction.html for more on that). it's actually quite easy, as you can jump back into position quickly, compared to the combat dash method. if you successfully collect space jump, we can assume scan dashing is enabled in whatever version you are playing.

further, it would be extremely useful to us if you could read the numbers printed on the inside ring of your game disc on the data (silver) side. they are extremely small, so you may need to take the disc by a window to get enough light to read them. we can't necessarily assume there are changes even if the number reads something other than 0-00, as there is a 0-01 copy of NA Metroid Prime out there that apparently is no different from the original 0-00 copy.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: giggs | Posted: 4/24/2004 5:34:57 PM
Nate, I showed my friend how to get SJ first in the original PAL copy of the game, and he saw a video of the NTSC method so he knows what scan dash is. If he says it's impossible, it must be.
If it is true however, then I appologize for what I claimed
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: The Mario King | Posted: 4/25/2004 4:10:55 AM
Aah **** you guys are right! Sorry, when I jumped while scanning I just assumed it was a dash... stupid! Sorry...
But I can tell you what the disc says:

DOL-GM8P-0-00 JPN
From: njahnke | Posted: 4/25/2004 11:08:39 AM
i think that's pretty much the final nail in the coffin right there.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: giggs | Posted: 4/27/2004 2:46:38 PM
I have a little question for my speed run. When you come from frost cave. Does the first ice parasite you encounter in frozen pike sometimes drop PB refills?

Because I need it >_<
I'm using andrew's route. I saved once at 56 mins in magmoor after thermal, supers and the 2 artifacts in far phendrana, but had to delete that save cuz I didn't have any PB left and neither the pirates or the zoomer on the way to the phazon mines elevator drop any refill...
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: Tah Roy | Posted: 4/29/2004 12:02:24 PM
this topic needs some serious bumping IMO

BUMP!
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/29/2004 12:47:14 PM
nate, if i (at the end of my run) got the exact same time as zoidi, would the winner be the one with the higher item percentage? cos i think that might well happen.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 4/29/2004 10:49:56 PM
Nice part 7 kip! Wow! (I'm sure you're mad about that slip up in Root Hall)

Even so, I think you made up for your "subpar" part 6.

Thoughts on the segment, kip. =)
---
the-elite.net
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin 23/26
From: Tah Roy | Posted: 4/30/2004 7:38:41 AM
Cool new segment Kip,you really like dash jumping eh?
From: kip | Posted: 4/30/2004 9:30:03 AM
yeah, i considered it a failed attempt after root cave (lost 3 seconds), so i just played on to see what would happen since i was so close to the ship. i ended up getting the time i wanted at the ship anyway, so i guess i'll take it. =\

probably won't have a part8 for ages if ever, because it has elite research... maybe the hardest room in the game for any%. can't kill the power trooper quickly because no supers (the one place i'd like to have them), and can't easily ignore enemies because of 99 health. if that room didn't exist i could probably finish soon, but oh well.

snoopdigger: very little has been done on geo core without sj/grapple/boost/spider at the same time. supposedly, you can reach the first spinner with a tbjm from a puddle spore (and eliminate grapple), but there is no proof; no one has a video or anything. i do have a video of what it looks like when a puddle spore lets you bomb jump on it though:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/puddle_sporing.avi

zoidi also managed to bomb jump from the lower part of spinner 3 to the top, to get around the spider track on it. but other than that and the puddle spore thing, there's nothing as far as i know.
From: giggs | Posted: 4/30/2004 11:32:49 AM
Very nice part again kip. You were 7 minutes ahead of zoidi in central dynamo, how much is it now?? Also, I have to ask... why didn't you take the e-tank in the transport tunnel to phendrana in the beginning of your run?? Even if it was close to a ten seconds loss, it would have made things a hell lot easier for the elite research part
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: giggs | Posted: 4/30/2004 11:44:31 AM
erm, forget my question about the time you were ahead of z0idi, i ottally forgot he went for ice spreader and artifact of sun on this part. So when are you getting those? (if you get the ice spreader)
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/30/2004 12:09:36 PM
im not gonna argue with kip if he thinks otherwise, but if i was him i wouldn't get the ice spreader- there'd be no point because he has so few missiles.
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 4/30/2004 2:04:02 PM
couple of questions.
1. is 24% still the lowest?
2. if the answer to 1 is yes, how close is a 23% game?
3. is radix still the MP God?
4. and if anybody out there remembers me, should i get back into MP?
---
http://www.geocities.com/sephff9/thepegwall
go to my site
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 4/30/2004 2:05:00 PM
turn that 24 into 21. (shows how long itz been sence i've been here)
---
http://www.geocities.com/sephff9/thepegwall
go to my site
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 4/30/2004 2:07:04 PM
forget #1. wut is the current lowest % ?
---
http://www.geocities.com/sephff9/thepegwall
go to my site
From: MrGuru | Posted: 4/30/2004 2:30:30 PM
22% run has been done, by TreborSalbon. It's insanely hard, because of no boost ball.

We're working on a 21% game, just not very quickly. Read kips post a few above this one.

Even if it was close to a ten seconds loss, it would have made things a hell lot easier for the elite research part

Because. It's kip, and 10 wasted seconds. ;) They don't mix.

Good luck on the Elite Research, kip. I'm going to be anxious to see it.
---
the-elite.net
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin 24/27
From: kip | Posted: 4/30/2004 3:52:49 PM
well, i'd like to say that i have all the answers, but i really don't. the energy tank thing is just a weakness of the mines after ice route... none of the tanks are in your way until the one behind omega pirate. because getting a tank before then would cost so much time, i wanted to see how hard it'll be to do without any and not compromise speed (especially in the second mines trip).

number of missiles and whether to get ice spreader is the other thing i don't know about. i figure if you're not getting ice spreader, it's useless to have more than like 25 or 30 missiles. the problem is it seems like there's no way to find out which way is better; if i did another run with ice spreader, the natural variance in the play will mess with my perception of the difference (because i don't think it'll be so much that it's obvious). this was a big concern of mine with the route testing too, and actually i never found out which route is best.

so, i don't really have an opinion on ice spreader or anything that i can't back up with experience or proof of some kind. yet when you do an any % run you can't avoid making choices... i guess it's tough.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/2/2004 10:07:27 AM
bumpy
From: njahnke | Posted: 5/2/2004 6:43:22 PM
From: pirate109 | Posted: 4/29/2004 1:47:14 PM | Message Detail

nate, if i (at the end of my run) got the exact same time as zoidi, would the winner be the one with the higher item percentage? cos i think that might well happen.

you would be in second place after zoidi.

since it's easier to tie a video you've seen rather than break ground on your own, radix and i have decided that whoever gets the time first comes first.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/3/2004 10:51:06 AM
ok i guess that's only fair. however, i think if sum1 got the same time but like 20% more items they should be no.1 regardless of who did it first. it doesn't matter much anyway, even if i do somehow beat zoidi i'll still be overshadowed by kip's new run. btw kip, what's ur prediction for ur final time? i was thinking something like 1:05.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/3/2004 5:24:06 PM
That's a double edged sword there. More percent means more time put in to collect items, but less percent means the game is harder overall...you can see that Kip is struggling with only one e-tank.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/4/2004 5:18:21 PM
Can't stand this new layout.
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 5/4/2004 11:08:14 PM
TreborSelbon

vg, I think it depends on the item(s) as well. Something like an energy tank doesn't necessarily make the game faster. Something like the Ice Spreader (plus extra missiles) could, but it's not really clear.

So, what can you do? In the meantime, let's just hope no one ties a time....(or just keep the original time in first).

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 5/5/2004 4:47:54 AM
Are there any vids of these completed 22% runs etc?
From: MrGuru | Posted: 5/5/2004 10:45:35 AM
Well, there is only one completed 22% run. And no, there is no vid.
---
the-elite.net
Pissing away 20 hours to gain one more second is the thing we do best. - ST
The Pope? How many divisions has he got? - Stalin 28/31
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/5/2004 1:25:19 PM
kip, i was wondering, i remember u said about how ur part 8 would be tough cos of elite research, but i wouldn't of thought u'd be at elite research in P8. i thought what u'd do is climb the crash site, get the HOTE artifact and save in R pool, meaning elite research is in part 9. im not gonna put it past u, but doing what i just mentioned, getting the life grove items, going through the mines (getting past elite research) and making it to central dynamo on 99 health (maintaining ur current pace) in the same bleedin' segment??!! u cant tell me u intend to go for that. unless ur thinking of another route? (although i dont really see what other options u have right now).
From: kip | Posted: 5/5/2004 5:21:02 PM
exactly... that's why i don't want to play. ;-) but it seems like there are no other saves to consider besides reflecting pool (main quarry is a bit too costly i think).

i can save before or after world, or neither. i was talking to other people in the irc channel before about how saving before world might not cost time (if you boost/unmorph into the save point). it definitely wouldn't cost more than like 2 seconds.

if i save after world, it costs more time to do that (radix said 8 or 9 seconds if you're heading to the great tree hall elevator afterwards), and the ghosts aren't likely to hit me anyway so i don't need the energy refill. then again it would be pretty annoying to get world at the start of each attempt, if i saved before it.

i'm undecided about all of this. obviously i don't want to go from the ship to central dynamo, but saving after world costs so much time, and i don't like saving before it either.
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 5/5/2004 11:02:33 PM
well, that only leaves one option: do it all at once.

Ah come on...you know you want to. That's the only way you'll be truly satisfied.

Anyway, just try to do it without saving for a while. If it becomes too much of a pain in the ass, just save before.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/6/2004 1:07:13 AM
i reckon u should save before world, kip. im having a hard enough time on my run getting from reflecting pool (i saved after world) to central dynamo. im obviously not as good as you, but landing site to central dynamo would be pushing it i think, even by your standards.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 5/7/2004 11:39:43 PM
There haven't been any new additions to your directory lately kip! Are you feeling alright? ;)

I say go for it. You'll want people to look at your part 8 and be like "wtf omg how did he make it all that way with only 99 health!?!" :)
---
the-elite.net
Sp2k4: Matches:30/33 Points: 31/34
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/8/2004 11:08:48 PM
buumpy
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/10/2004 6:17:40 PM
buuumpy
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 5/11/2004 9:00:41 PM
um... is there a special route I'm supposed to follow for a 21% game? if its the natural route, then I guess i'd better go fetch an FAQ because I don't remember it o_O >_> <_<
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: kip | Posted: 5/11/2004 10:26:10 PM
try the ruined courtyard version in my folder. it's room-by-room because it was made to see if there were any rooms we were overlooking that might become a problem later.
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/12/2004 2:07:43 PM
kip, have you made a decision yet about what to do for your part 8? i dont mean to hassle you, but i'm very eager to see your final time.
From: kip | Posted: 5/12/2004 3:10:59 PM
i'm sorry, i haven't... i just don't know. i think i have all the rest of the saves planned out (granted you never know what might happen), except for this situation.

i haven't even looked at the rooms for the next part (or two?), but i guess i need to soon.
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/12/2004 3:56:07 PM
u dont need to apologise mate, you're the one doing the brilliant run! take as much time as u need, i wouldn't want to hurry you into finishing a run you're not completely happy with.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 5/12/2004 7:27:43 PM
kip, no one will blame you if you preserve your sanity by saving before or after getting world. It's only 2 or 8 seconds loss, and I doubt that those will make the difference between, say, a 1:08 or a 1:09 in the end. And you can always keep obsessively fighting Prime until he gives in, if it should come to that ;)
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: Gameboy2003 | Posted: 5/13/2004 9:45:17 AM
O_O if I ever start a low% game I probably won't get far...>_<.
I'm not good enough at the game to beat OP on low%, even with a high% I barely beat him...Oh well. I suck. Game over. Blahblahblah.
---
OUCH! HOTNESS! IT IS THE OVERHEAT!-FawfulSecretary of Intelligence of the Fawful Fan Club!
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 5/15/2004 12:02:08 AM
heh heh, 'just a 2 or 8 second loss' that will drive kip utterly crazy. Granted, it my not make a one minute difference in the end...but then again, it may very well.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http:/www.metroid2002.com
From: kip | Posted: 5/15/2004 10:41:01 AM
well that's the problem, you can't seem to know until you're actually at the last segment. either you find out that it cost you a lower minute, or all that suffering to keep the number of saves down was for nothing.

leaning toward taking before world though. getting world at the start of each attempt is a hassle, but thinking it's not worth paying 6 more seconds. it's not exactly the GTH bars or anything... just annoying, like how getting space jump in your part 3 would be annoying instead of just saving after it.

maybe i'll change my mind when i start trying the part after world, but definitely going to save somewhere.
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/15/2004 10:55:43 AM
u say it'd be a hassle to get world at the start of each segment, but if u opted to go for the ship to central dynamo run in one segment it'd be even more hassling! since elite research is such a bastard, u'll likely muck up there a few times, and then u'd have to climb the crash site as well as get world again!
From: kip | Posted: 5/15/2004 11:02:21 AM
by hassle i meant as opposed to saving after world. ;-)

i don't see myself trying ship > central dynamo... so just need to decide whether it's before or after world. i don't want to, say, save before world and upload that, having everyone think that's what i'm doing and then finding out that i want to save after world because the part after it is harder than i thought.
From: kip | Posted: 5/15/2004 6:05:42 PM
ok i finally made up my mind. i saved after world and i won't look back. just had a feeling i would regret it if i didn't.
From: Eternal Neo | Posted: 5/15/2004 10:37:35 PM
I haven't been here in a while. Has any progress been made on 21% yet?

I'm working on a 23% game now (my first low% game), and I know it won't wont help much, but I'm a pretty good bomb jumper and I'll work on P. Edge when I get there...>_> ---
-Your Savior
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/16/2004 2:57:10 AM
Eternal Neo: I'm pretty certain that no progress has been made for 21%. It's Geo core that's the main problem- no-one's been able to climb the spinners without space jump, but if ur a good bomb jumper then u could give it a go.

Kip: good decision- i suppose it would be dead annoying to get world at the start each time. good luck on part 9- in my opinion it's the toughest part of an any% run.
From: Eternal Neo | Posted: 5/16/2004 3:00:05 AM
Heh. I'm a good bomb jumper, but I'm no where Geo Core good. I'll work on P. Edge and GTH because they seem to be achievable with good bomb jumping. It's just that no one has done them yet
---
-Your Savior
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/16/2004 4:03:27 AM
nice part 8, kip! that thing you did to climb the crash site fast was so cool!
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/19/2004 1:14:50 AM
bump
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 5/21/2004 8:54:51 AM
Hey, pirate109, what's up? Monster here. (And, BTW, bump.)
---
Say "HELLO" to my little friend!!! (switches to plasma beam, begins charging up...)
From: pirate109 | Posted: 5/21/2004 9:47:49 AM
hey monster, im actually pretty excited cos im near the end of my normal any% (PAL) run and im saved 1 minute faster than zoidi was at that point. i've been practising this section for ages now- from the save point in m.workstation to far phendrana getting both artifacts + thermal, then back through to tallon to landing site. once i get this segment better/as good as zoidi's then i know i can get 1:16 mission final cos fighting ridley and the 2 parts of MP is one of the few things i truly excel at. im recording too so soon i should have the PAL WR confirmed!
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/25/2004 9:49:20 PM
bump to avoid the evil that is the purge...

Though Cjay doesn't seem to be purging as often since he redesigned the site...I wonder why?
From: Eternal Neo | Posted: 5/29/2004 8:03:27 PM
bump

How close were you guys to raising spinner 1 in Geothermal Core without Boost? I almost got it to the top just a minute ago. I have no idea how, though.
---
-Your Savior
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2004 11:12:40 AM
I've been away from MP for quite a long time now. But yesterday I decided to play again, and I *finally* completed the low % game that I started more than 1 year ago (when the lowest known % still was 23).

So finally, I have
23%, 6h47m (I never played for speed) <>
According to the top scores page at metroid2002.com my time should be in 6th position. However, I haven't recorded any part of the run because when I started it I just did it for the sake of sequence breaking and I didn't plan on getting past the mines (reaching the save point at the entrance of the mines was my objective), so I don't know if it's valid.

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: SSJ4DarkSamus | Posted: 6/2/2004 7:34:26 AM
22% and 21% game question...

I am currently working on my first low % game, so it will be a while before I get done because I'm not that good at the special tricks yet. But I am curious to know which items are being left out. I found a list for a 23% game and I think the 22% would leave out boost ball and the 21% would also leave out space jump.

If you look at the rest of the items I think they are all required to do things to get artifacts and/or other items so I think that would be it, but I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks
From: Eternal Neo | Posted: 6/2/2004 12:55:19 PM
22% and 21% game question...

I am currently working on my first low % game, so it will be a while before I get done because I'm not that good at the special tricks yet. But I am curious to know which items are being left out. I found a list for a 23% game and I think the 22% would leave out boost ball and the 21% would also leave out space jump.

If you look at the rest of the items I think they are all required to do things to get artifacts and/or other items so I think that would be it, but I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks

Um...here are the items left in a 23% game

Space Jump Boots (1%)
5 missles (1%)
Morph Ball (1%)
MBBombs (1%)
Varia Suit (1%)
Boost Ball (1%)
Wave Beam (1%)
Ice Beam (1%)
Power Bombs (1%)
Plasma Beam (1%)
X-Ray Visor (1%)
Phazon Suit and Beam (0%)
12 Artifacts (12%)

Although you can try for a 22% game without Boost Ball, I wouldn't recommend it, as it's insanely difficult. A 21% game isn't possible yet. Good luck anyway.
---
-Your Savior
From: SSJ4DarkSamus | Posted: 6/2/2004 2:59:27 PM
Thanks for the response. I just wanted to make sure that I was in concurrence of what the required items were. So as I see it, if it became possible a 21% game is the lowest possible unless clipping becomes allowed. Is the biggest problem of doing it without boost ball the vent shaft and geo core? That's what I was thinking would be the toughest spots.
From: Eternal Neo | Posted: 6/2/2004 3:08:35 PM
Yeah. Vent Shaft and Geo Core are the problems for 22%.

Vent Shaft's just plain hard to do. You have to be an amazing bomb-jumper to get it.

Geo Core is pretty much all luck. I personally don't find getting the dash jump perfect to be very hard, but I've never managed to be sucked into the bomb slot before.
---
-Your Savior
From: SSJ4DarkSamus | Posted: 6/2/2004 3:20:27 PM
Well (and don't laugh) as I said I'm new, so I'm currently having trouble with the sun tower without SpiderBall... I get about half-way and loose my rythym. So I've got a long way to go, but it's a lot of fun to get really good a the parts leading up to these places
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/3/2004 9:14:31 AM
For Vent Shaft on a 22% run, it's possible to use Secret World 5 (Omega Research) to float uo to Vent Shaft, then float up past the half-pipe and then door warp back IN the room at the top of the half pipe. Slower than getting the bomb-jumps first time, but it's certainly FAR FAR easier to do...

Andrew "Bored MP Speed Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 2nd June 2004
From: SSJ4DarkSamus | Posted: 6/3/2004 11:57:08 AM
Thanks for that... knowing me I may just get frustrated and do that... but who knows... by the time I get there I might be good at bomb jumping, obviously given my current position in the game it will be a while before I get there. Having only 30 minutes or so a day to play makes it a little difficult to perfect anything right now. But I'm every hopeful :)
From: metroid100 | Posted: 6/3/2004 12:41:11 PM
I never got how a 21% game would be possible. If you skip space jump, you wont be able to skip things like spiderball (like metroid quarintine A/B, getting X-ray Visor, etc.) and what about skipping grapple??
---
Airbags - My Antidrug
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/3/2004 12:45:45 PM
Check Tzyr's folder- it shows vids of solutions to the metroid quarantines/fungal halls without sj.
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 6/3/2004 5:26:36 PM
kip, let me be the first to say: Congratulations on the pimpingest segment yet. Your pwning of the Phazon Elite will no doubt go unsurpassed until the end of time. That trick with the laser at the top of Omega Research - the sexiest thing I've ever seen. And all on 99 energy! Good lord, this run of yours is one to be proud of...

(When that beam flew by your head inside the save room, I bet you crapped your pants. Admit it.)
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 2:14 (new run in progress)
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: kip | Posted: 6/3/2004 7:15:58 PM
thanks man. ;-) Well the phazon elite thing is weird... I first noticed it was possible to do the "turnaround" on him when I was doing some route testing after part5, but I had no idea how I did it so I wasn't sure what I would do when I got to part9. However, when smilingjack's 23% was released I saw that he already knew it, complete with a working method ("short dash" to the right and then shoot him, then don't let him turn enough to face you, just like for all other members of the elite family).

So I looked at my options now that I knew the method... using only missiles, it takes 24 to kill him which is fastest, but I only had a max of 20. Using only plasma is very slow but seems like the best option that doesn't use ammo. Using all my missiles then switching to plasma lets me kill him in 2 charged plasmas... but the thing is I figured that was overdoing it. I remembered that I would also need at least 3 missiles for Fungal Hall A when I got there, so that's why I use 16 before switching.

The other missile was to be saved for the ice trooper in Elite Control if I happened to be almost dead when I got there; you can kill him and only slow down for .9, and he gives you either an ultra, a missile, or a pb. I didn't bother with this in that video since I had a lot of health, although I threw some away by touching him twice (and touching the last elite pirate... talk about careless).

If someone was very brave/patient with perfecting Elite Research, they could gain something like 5 or 6 seconds there. The way I destroyed the last turret was a small compromise. It would've been better to wait until I'd jumped up to the top floor. But I think all the other ones are destroyed with minimal/no time loss. Tried to work that stuff in seamlessly.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/3/2004 10:34:03 PM
Holy crap. kip is using capital letters.

o_0

Now all we need is nate.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 6/4/2004 4:47:42 AM
From: metroid100 | Posted: 6/3/2004 12:41:11 PM | Message Detail
I never got how a 21% game would be possible. If you skip space jump, you wont be able to skip things like spiderball (like metroid quarintine A/B, getting X-ray Visor, etc.) and what about skipping grapple??

We have worked on those rooms. How I was able to get to rooms like the third level in the mines, was I used AR to give me plasma in my no sj game (Which I was all the way to geo).

The only rooms that need solving for 21% are:

Great Tree Hall - getting up to the top of the room to get x-ray
Geo - bah..I hate this room ;p
P.edge - if someone can figure out how to get from the tree (that you use to skip grapple) to the first snow lege, then from the last floating platform to the door where the artifact is.

There is one segment that I am not sure of though. And that is if you have enough life to go from CD to MQB because there are a lot of areas where you have to be in the phazon.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/4/2004 5:34:20 AM
Tzyr: has MQA been solved w/o sj? i dont think there's a vid in your folder and i cant really imagine how it's done.
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 6/6/2004 5:19:05 PM
Normal 100% Game (NTSC) - 1:46

Just a little something I've been doing on-and-off for the past month. Partly because I wanted to improve on my horrible 2:14, partly because I wanted to get a feel for a few things involving routes (the one I used was really pretty bad). I really took the run pretty easy, allowing lots of mistakes and not doing things the fastest way if it was a big hassle to do (i.e., I didn't do the early Newborn trick, thereby losing ~1.5 minutes) I killed Prime 4 times in an effort to get 1:45, but never could get it.

I have no proof whatsoever to back up this claim - no video and no pictures. I didn't even bother writing down my percentages/save times either since I wasn't taking the run all that seriously, and I can't remember the first half of them since it was done over a month ago. I DO remember :05 after SJ, :12 Gathering Hall, and :15 Burning Trail (didn't do early Wild), but then my memory stops. The final save is 1:38 in the Impact Crater.

I don't care if anyone believes this or not - I'm going for the WR later this summer, and I intend to catch it on tape ;)
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:46
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/6/2004 6:58:16 PM
LeCoureur, that's a good time for an "i dont care" run ;-) I hope you'll tape any further attempt you make... it's not hard :-p You should know that at least one other person is trying to beat the 1:37 ... but it's not me, I said I won't try it again and I'm sticking with that.
---
Webmaster - Speed Demos Archive http://planetquake.com/sda/
Quake, Metroid, Zelda etc speed runs!
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/7/2004 1:22:26 AM
I hate doing PAL 100% (grav chamber missile on first try w/o grapple). After my any% is done though i will try one and hope to beat nate's 1:50.
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: Gice | Posted: 6/7/2004 2:56:39 AM
Beat 1.50 on PAL?

Man, you are sick ;)

Remember, you still have the (unofficial) Record on 100% PAL, and i just started again playing...
so, donīt fear me for another 3 or 4 months (till i can handle that &&%$§$% BJ on frigate =(
I think i will do 2 real runs, one with my "given" skill (no Frigate BJ and some other things i still canīt pull off), and a second if that is not enough to beat you ;) on which i really practise all annoying stuff (and during that time probably echoes 5 on Dolphin 3 is out ;)
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/7/2004 4:44:17 AM
yeah, that BJ on the frigate drove me crazy in my any%!
Maybe i was pushing it a little saying i may go sub 1:50. It may though, considering that on my 1:58 I didn't use the 'quick-flaahgra kill,' the quick way of climbing tower of light for wavebuster and my route could be better. It would take a helluva lot of work if i did beat it, though!
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 6/7/2004 3:09:00 PM
Change that "1:46" to a "1:45". Pwnd that goofy bastard in record time, heh.
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/10/2004 9:24:11 AM
BUMP
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: SSJ4DarkSamus | Posted: 6/12/2004 12:32:24 PM
I was hoping for someone to give me a suggestion on the climb up the Sun Tower.

I finally started getting good at it, and got comfortable with the timing (practiced on one of my finished games).

Well after a little bit of practice where I felt like I could do it I started playing my low % game again. But now... whenever I jump into the crevice I don't slow down my rate of descent any more. It's weird... I have managed to get about 3 ball heights away from where I need to be even without slowing down, but that's when my bomb usage rate exceeds the refill rate so I fall.

Has this happened to anyone? Does it just suddenly stop working? Any help or perhaps a new technique would be useful.

Thanks.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 6/12/2004 5:27:42 PM
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/4/2004 5:34:20 AM | Message Detail
Tzyr: has MQA been solved w/o sj? i dont think there's a vid in your folder and i cant really imagine how it's done.

Yes, but all I have done is get to the last platform. zoidi is the one who did it without sj. It involves freezing a metroid, jumping on it and letting it shoot you way up in the air, much like how Radix and kip have done it in their vids.

The reason why I skipped MQA is because you did not need plasma to get there so anyone who could get to CD on a no sj game could try out MQA. I only worked on the other rooms which you could not get without plasma.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: z0idi | Posted: 6/14/2004 8:48:49 AM
hey,
there's now an alternate way for PAL players to get the sj first. it is more difficult (imo) and therefore only for use in speed runs, since it is faster than the other way. but it will hopefully make a 0:05 save with sj possible.

thanks very much to TRH who has captured a vid of it that can be found here:
www.metroid2002.com/trh/Stuff/new_sjfirst.avi

cheers,
zoidi
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/14/2004 9:31:28 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/14/2004 9:43:34 AM
Hey zoidi, haven't seen you on any boards for a while. I was just wondering, are you gonna try and beat my new PAL any% run (1:15, vids up soon)? You probably could, seeing as your 1:17 is a little outdated now.

Also, i can't seem to access the 'stuff' part of TRH's folder, so could you describe the new PAL early SJ method please? I really want to how to do it, especially if it means an 0:05 SJ save.
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 6/14/2004 10:12:04 AM
Youre not supposed to be able to access my 'stuff' folder ;)

try entering the whole url, including the name of the movie and it should work.
---
.
From: z0idi | Posted: 6/14/2004 10:13:53 AM
pirate, I honestly don't know yet.
I will watch your run before I make up my mind ;)
From: Darkstar2 | Posted: 6/14/2004 12:31:30 PM
I cant get past Twin Fires Tunnel with out the spider ball. None of the techniques i have seen on metroid2002.com have worked. I have the north american orginal version. Please help in advance. I really want to get the PLasma Beam. . .

---
In my fantasy, im a pantomime.
I just move my hands and every one see's what i mean.
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 6/14/2004 1:32:25 PM
Oy, just got :05 sj!
there's a vid of it in my m2k2 folder ( www.metroid2002.com/trh/extended_part_2.avi ) or if you prefer a pic you can check out www.metroid2002.com/trh/05_sj.bmp

Sweet :)
---
.
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/14/2004 1:50:13 PM
TRH: now that you got your 0:05 SJ, are you gonna do a speed run?
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: Gice | Posted: 6/15/2004 2:38:53 AM
Very sweet this new SJfirst Method, dude =)

didnt try it myself yet, but it rocks...
so now get your frustrated self back in the game and do a speed run!!

=)
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 6/15/2004 5:13:07 AM
I might do a speed run, but i wont announce it (if i do one), cause it would be to much pressure on me.
---
.
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 6/15/2004 8:53:37 AM
Radix created a topic for this, thought I'd let you all know here as well. kip finished his any% speed run (NTSC) in 1:05 - vids are up at planetquake.
---
Say "HELLO" to my little friend!!! (switches to plasma beam, begins charging up...)
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/15/2004 2:44:22 PM
Wow, kip, that's incredible. Nice job. I wonder if sub-hour is possible?

Could anyone explain in words what the new PAL sj first method is?
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 6/16/2004 3:38:44 AM
Heres a nice pic made by Zoidi which explains how to do the new SJ first method: www.metroid2002.com/trh/other/SJ_Alternate.bmp (751 kb)
---
.
From: Gice | Posted: 6/16/2004 6:16:47 AM
or as .jpg =)

http://www.metroid2002.com/gice/sj_alternate.jpg
From: zell99 | Posted: 6/16/2004 2:04:14 PM
topic part 7... i left at part 3 i think! good job to you all, especially kip since he's still here and kickin' ;)
---
Y'all [...] make sure it's popin' when we get up there... -Tupac
From: McMiffler | Posted: 6/16/2004 3:44:55 PM
Damn, us PAL players are doing remarkably well with not being able to use scan dash :D well done guys...
---
[ Metroid Prime ]
[ Items: 77% Scans: 88% ]
From: Bartholamue | Posted: 6/17/2004 2:38:27 PM
I dont know if anyone has found this out, but at the incinerator drone, there is a ledge on the wall that you can go on, and you dont have to move anymore until you get the morph ball bomb. its on the wall opposite, and left of the blue door.
---
"Don't take me, take the kids! They last longer!" Mr Crocker
From: tomatobob | Posted: 6/17/2004 3:17:58 PM
"From: Darkstar2 | Posted: 6/14/2004 12:31:30 PM | Message Detail
I cant get past Twin Fires Tunnel with out the spider ball. None of the techniques i have seen on metroid2002.com have worked. I have the north american orginal version. Please help in advance. I really want to get the PLasma Beam. . ."

I do the DBJ method, as it is the only one that works for me, to do it you need to place bomb three after you begin to fall to get the nessessary height.

---
-the talking tomato.
Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid.
From: G4ORCE | Posted: 6/18/2004 11:17:29 AM
I can't do a DBJ in the lava, I did the scan dash method, worked on my first try, I was dumbfounded, was the first time I ever seriously Sequence Breaked. Once I got to the door to Plasma but then forgot to get the Ice Beam. Gosh, that sucked.
---
Do people really read signatures? Wait, you're reading it....... Hmmmmm.....
From: tomatobob | Posted: 6/18/2004 1:32:41 PM
That sucks, at least you were able to do the Dash jump method, I still can only get the DBJ method to work, I really suck at Dash Jumps,though I got lucky a couple days ago and did the Main Quarry Dash in one try.
---
-the talking tomato.
Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid.
From: SSJ4DarkSamus | Posted: 6/22/2004 5:57:25 AM
BUMP

Does anyone know what the height comparison between doing a TBJ vs a 4BJ is? I'm wondering if I will need to continue working on perfecting the TBJ or if I can just continue using 4BJ in its place? The 4BJ works great on the aboretum gate, but I'm not far enough along to know how it compares at some later stages in the game.
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 6/22/2004 11:26:07 AM
4BJ? What's that? I haven't played in awhile so I'm a bit out of date. Also, I'm trying a low-percent run, but I can't get back up to the Sun Chamber. I keep dying on those wall enemies. Help?

Oh and by the way, I wonder if Echoes will have any holes in for for sbing.
---
If you can't say anything intelligent,
Don't waste our time with your idiocy.
From: Grub55 | Posted: 6/22/2004 3:48:22 PM
you lay a burn bomb, like for the TBJ, then wait a second, then lay a bomb, and lay one more as the second one explodes, and on your way up, lay three more bombs.

They all explode VERY close to one another, and end up giving you four boosts upwards, hence, 4BJ. 3BJ is the same, except you have more leeway on your button mashing.

---
I used charged Plasma for the air form, charged power to get him to expose his chest, then I super missiled him when he showed it to me. Meriadoc Brandybuck
From: SSJ4DarkSamus | Posted: 6/23/2004 6:38:33 AM
Yeah, what he said :) It seems to me that you get so much velocity that it almost gets you as high as a TBJ, so I was just curious.

I feel your pain on the low % run. I have similar problems, except now, for some reason, my descent doesn't slow down when I push into the crevice... it used to... now for some reason it doesn't, I sure hope it isn't the controller.
From: Ekarderif | Posted: 6/23/2004 6:49:57 AM
A 4BJ is extremely useful in situations with no wall. Whereas a TBJ gives about a 10% boost when not against a wall and requires you to be nearly stationary, a 4BJ gives almost the height of a TBJ against a wall with the added possibility of laddering.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/23/2004 11:53:12 AM
Anyone have a video of this tbj in action? I hadn't heard of it before the last few posts in this topic, and I've been following it since part 1...
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/23/2004 11:57:34 AM
Oops, I meant 4bj.
From: Black Devil | Posted: 6/23/2004 12:15:31 PM
www.metroid2002.com/tzyr

download the vid titled "4bj.mp4"
---
artificial intelligence will never be a match for natural stupidity~ Funky Buddha
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/23/2004 12:16:22 PM
There's a vid in tzyr's folder of the 4bj. Apparently it's horribly difficult to do, though! Much tougher than a 3bj or a tbj.
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: pirate109 | Posted: 6/23/2004 12:17:41 PM
oops, Black Devil beat me to it.
---
Palace in the premiership!!!!!
From: Bartholamue | Posted: 6/24/2004 12:11:21 AM
I just beat it again, and my best time now is 2:39 with 95% of items. It would've been less if MP wasn't so picky about landing the phazon.
---
"Don't take me, take the kids! They last longer!" Mr Crocker
From: kip | Posted: 6/25/2004 5:05:40 AM
I don't know if zoidi beat me to doing this since I haven't heard from him in a few days, but here's something for PAL players if someone with that version can confirm:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/thardus_space_jump.avi

It's much the same as the Thardus dash. Go to the same spot, but wait to get hit, then immediately jump (because if you fall off before jumping, the game doesn't let you jump). If you were standing at the right spot, touching Thardus will send you pretty far, about as much as a dash.

If you barely move at all when you get hit, it's because you're not standing at the edge of the piece. That's a problem also when you're trying to dash in NTSC; you don't even move unless you're standing at the edge.

I guess that's another minute for PAL if someone confirms it.
From: kip | Posted: 6/25/2004 6:01:47 AM
nevermind, it's been confirmed. ;-)
From: z0idi | Posted: 6/25/2004 6:10:14 AM
Yesterday I was messing around with that idea of yours, kip, but I wasn't able to make it to the exit of the room. Personally I'm confident that it it possible because one time I've got plenty of distance and only missed the ledge by a few degrees because of an imprecise angle. So it still should be done by a PAL player.

It is amazing how you care about the PAL version and shave off minute by minute in a possible speed run, and for that I thank you very much.
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 6/27/2004 12:50:32 AM
Since this is the 21% discussion topic, I might as well put this little bit of info in it, if only to document it for later.

21% Vent Shaft isn't looking too good. At kip's request, I looked at it today while that bomb jump was fresh in my mind, and it appears impossible.

I say 'appears' because you never know in this game.

It turns out that the bomb jump itself isn't affected by not having the Space Jump, at least, as far as I can tell. But, the unmorph at the end of the bomb jump is; and we know that's the key to pulling it off.

Of course, I switched to a game that had SJ just to make sure it wasn't me and I could pull it off rather easily.

When I tested, I had the Gravity Suit, Boost Ball, and Spider Ball, but I really don't think they affected the morph that much.

Now, don't take this as law. It still may be possible to bomb jump out without Space Jump, but it'll either take a huge stroke of luck or a 'better-than-perfect' bomb jump, if such a thing exists.

---
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. ~ Albert Einstein
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: Gameboy2003 | Posted: 6/27/2004 1:42:05 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 6/27/2004 12:56:02 PM
Hate to say so, but the 21% game (without SJ) finally receives my certified *Stamp of Impossibility*.

I don't doubt that Great Tree Hall and Phendrana's Edge can be done with some very perfect bomb jumping, but have you been to Geo Core lately? It is simply not possible to make it from the very bottom of the room, to the very top. The height/distance between the spinners, the inability to even RAISE a couple of the spinners (without Boost), the Spider Ball maze, the bomb slot... If you can look me in the eye and honestly tell me that you think that's possible to get past with no SJ, no Boost, no Spider Ball, and no Grapple, then I'm calling up the asylum, because you're freakin' nuts. This news of Vent Shaft is just one more nail in the coffin...

I've been doing an "anything goes" no-SJ run (currently at 80% of items), and Geo Core is still the only obstruction. I'm very optimistic about solving it, though, because I have Grapple, Boost, and Spider Ball to help me through. If I was a master of 3BJM's, I have no doubt I could get from spinner 1 -> spinner 2, and beyond. But not yet.
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/27/2004 1:31:37 PM
LeCoureur, I always said geo was the nail for no-21% game... I think Tzyr is the only person who ever thought it would be possible. It might be possible w/o sj and with the other items, but at least 3 people have tried the elaborate bomb jump ladders needed and haven't made them ... so even that could be impossible.
---
Webmaster - Speed Demos Archive http://planetquake.com/sda/
Quake, Metroid, Zelda etc speed runs!
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 6/27/2004 5:12:40 PM
LeCoureur, I always said geo was the nail for no-21% game...

Yep, you did... and I mocked you for it =P

I think Tzyr is the only person who ever thought it would be possible.

Nay... I suppose I always thought it would be possible, by some miracle or another. It would just seem wrong if we came within 3 rooms of making it happen, then got stopped dead.

What's ol' Tzyr up to these days, anyway? Hasn't been around in months... That boy sure could bomb jump - if anyone could do a no-SJ game, I'm sure it'd be him.
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: kip | Posted: 6/27/2004 7:18:32 PM
now that it seems like it's "confirmed" that space jump affects unmorph height (and possibly distance too?), I'm starting to doubt the Phazon Core without space jump method.

I have no AR so I had no choice but to use a file with space jump, and I remember doing it, but it doesn't mean anything unless someone with AR does it without space jump.

If anyone doesn't remember, the method is the same thing as the way Phazon Core is climbed in speed runs. You go up the candies with bomb jumps, starting with a tbjm (or variant) to get on the lowest candy:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/phazon_core_tbjm.wmv
From: Tzyr | Posted: 6/27/2004 7:39:57 PM
nothing ;p

I got bored of MP a while ago..it is what happens, I usually do not play a game for very long..hell I usually stop playing a game before I even finish it most of the time..I bought MP in December, a month after it was released..played it for a little bit (like 10 minutes? do not even think I landed on tallon). It was not till I read about sj first that got me interested in the game.

Anyway, probably close to when MP2 comes out, I might get back into mp..but till then..heh Especially for how long I have tried Geo no sj, or my 21% run and really got no where...

----

As for the height of a 4bj. I do not think it is any higher then a 3bj for everytime I managed to do it, it seems you miss one of the bombs (because of how fast you rise).

The order of height of balls jumps (at least in my eyes, and ibj not included since you can only do it in two spots) are:

wall tbj
3bj/4bj
tbj
2bj ;p

you can get a lot of height with a 3bj, but it is no where near as high as a wall tbj since you use the wall itself to slow your fall so you can get that much more height.

The problem with a 3bj is you gain height so fast that for something like the 1 > 2 jump, I always just hit my head (ha ha, I know..you are in a ball ;p) even when trying to do a ladder 3bj.

A ladder 3bj (or a solar frenzy) can be done to do 3>2 though..I just never had any luck doing 1 > 2 :(


About 21%..yes it is sad. I so want it to work just because of how close we are (talking about how many rooms are eliminated..no geo Radix ;p)..but yeah, even if we can 3bj off of a spore to get to the platform..how do we even make it to the bomb slot..let alone the door..bah so sad.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 6/27/2004 7:43:03 PM
Well, at least we have MP2 to look forward to. I don't think Prime is going any further as far as sequence breaking goes, but MP2 has many new possibilities. This may sound crazy, but I just read my Nintendo Power again, and it says that the Screw Attack will be included ;-) I didn't get into sb early enough for this game, so I hope to help out somehow in the next.
---
If you can't say anything intelligent,
Don't waste our time with your idiocy.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 6/27/2004 7:47:38 PM
kip, pretty sure a 3bjm can make it..just too bad I have no interest in going around and collecting all artifacts now on my no sj game with plasma..I would have to get life grove (I think?) and maybe a couple other ones that would be a pain in the butt to get.

If you were to do a 21% run or a no sj run I would go check it out for ya..but there seems to be little point right now ;p

For some reason, you just never liked doing a 3bjm..like I told you before, just wait a split second longer..it works wonders..patience kip, something you have a hellavalot of..:)

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/28/2004 7:54:04 AM
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 6/27/2004 7:43:03 PM | Message Detail
Well, at least we have MP2 to look forward to. I don't think Prime is going any further as far as sequence breaking goes, but MP2 has many new possibilities. This may sound crazy, but I just read my Nintendo Power again, and it says that the Screw Attack will be included ;-)

Well, MP2 doesnt look like S breacking paradise.

I mean Retro did like 2 updates to remove alot of the S breacking posibilities in the first Prime, just imagine what will they do with Prime 2.

Also the very design and layout of the game might restrict s breacking because of light/dark world mechanic dualite. Obviously there'll be some suit to navigate the dark world, and itll esentialy work like the varia suit so i dont think youll skip that one.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 6/28/2004 8:30:09 AM
I always just hit my head (ha ha, I know..you are in a ball ;p) even when trying to do a ladder 3bj.

See, I think that's weird. With a DBJM, I have gotten so ASS-GRABBINGLY CLOSE going from 1 > 2. No head-hitting at all. Since you don't have to be directly on top of a bomb for it to hit you, you lay the first bomb near the edge, practically roll off the edge of the platform, and it hits you outward (since you have forward momentum). I don't see why it wouldn't work going from 1 > 2 with a 3BJM... but like I said, I suck hardcore at those. As I can barely do them vertically, it'll be quite a stretch to pull off a ladder...
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: kip | Posted: 6/28/2004 9:21:05 AM
"Since you don't have to be directly on top of a bomb for it to hit you, you lay the first bomb near the edge, practically roll off the edge of the platform" (etc)

yeah, same thing I tried. ;-)

I dunno though. Just doesn't look like a dbjm is capable of it sometimes... the old early space jump method was barely possible with one, and the 1 > 2/3 > 2 gaps are much larger. I remember it taking tons of tries to do 3 > 2 even with space jump.

Now that I'm not tied up by a run anymore, I was thinking of trying 1 > 2 again, except on an actual consistent basis now... but not sure with what kind of bomb jump. Dbjm was the only thing I tried before, and I never made it (without space jump), but sometimes I would get so close it made me not want to use anything else. Not sure how wise that is though...
From: giggs | Posted: 6/28/2004 12:02:49 PM
and ibj not included since you can only do it in two spots

Totally pointless, but I think of 3. 3rd one is in main quarry, to the left of the bottom spiderball track, between the wall and the metal structure
---
If you cannot convince them, confuse them
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/28/2004 12:06:26 PM
PAH! You're ALL a bunch of pansies! No-SJ run!?

*sticks on Moonjump and floats around the game*

Told you this no-sj malarky was dead simple! *sticks on shades* ;) :P But on a serious note, Vent Shaft in 21% has a more viable option using, yep, you guessed it, Secret Worlds. Now, I've not tried this myself yet, but it might be possible to enter Secret World 5 (Omega Research) without SJ via a DBJLM to the spot you'd normally SJ to before the pipes. Although, HOW you'd manage to stay up on that little solid box is another thing...

But if you make it in to SW5, it's practically a straight float to the top of the room and load VS, and then door warp in at the top of the halp-pipe OR you could bomb jump UP the side of the room and then work your way to door warping in (quicker but frought with being stuck in the wall).

Not ideal (I appreciate this), simply offering up a possibly more viable solution...

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 25th June 2004
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 6/30/2004 4:47:54 PM
This is my post that is bumping the topic to the top, currently.
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: mewtwo7 | Posted: 6/30/2004 10:04:27 PM
Hey folks. I'm a little new to sequence breaking, but I have been messing around a lot lately. My best time so far is 7:03... not good.

I have the NTSC version and Iw as wondering, is it possible to do everything zoidi did in his video on NTSC? I am trying to mimic it and I am at the part after power bombs, jumping up the metal grate thing for the door back to magmoor. Up next is magmoor marathon...

So, should I know now if there is anything I CAN'T do due to the version difference? thanks.
---
Falco Master of SSBM! SMS: 120 shines SSBM: all levels/characters, 243 different trophies, HIGH scores.
From: tomatobob | Posted: 6/30/2004 10:30:26 PM
The PAL version is the only one where you need to do things zoidi did, the NTSC version you can do what kip did in his 1:04, Scan Dash Jumps and such, so in short yes you can do everything that zoidi did, but you don't need to.
---
-the talking tomato.
Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid.
From: mewtwo7 | Posted: 6/30/2004 11:04:29 PM
cool, thanks. I am going to finish anyways, just for fun. Unless of course the 1:04 strat does NOT involve hopping up in the phazon area. Part 9 of zoidi's vid.. Near the beginning, the hopping up the metal grate thing to reach the door and the elevator for magmoor. Does the NTSC record include that too? I can't do it and it's ******* me off. I just threw my controller accross the room...
---
Falco Master of SSBM! SMS: 120 shines SSBM: all levels/characters, 243 different trophies, HIGH scores.
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 6/30/2004 11:36:52 PM
kip, if you read this any time before 4 a.m. eastern time, get on AIM.

---
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. ~ Albert Einstein
From: njahnke | Posted: 6/30/2004 11:54:13 PM
for anyone who is reading this and wants to access metroid 2002, please go to #metroid on irc.esper.net instead of the normal irc channel. someone there will explain the situation; i'd rather not clutter up this topic.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: mewtwo7 | Posted: 7/1/2004 12:30:21 AM
Everyone can disregard that last post now. Trebor helped me out.
---
Falco Master of SSBM! SMS: 120 shines SSBM: all levels/characters, 243 different trophies, HIGH scores.
From: AgriasOaks | Posted: 7/1/2004 4:04:41 AM
Haha, I hate PPC..so much.

But some other uberstuff is fun..like the bars. I think that's my favorite part of the game now.

Well, I'm relatively new to this game (got it in February and played through it a couple times until the past week where I've started getting 100% crappily), so my best time right now is a measley 2:58 (lol I went from 10:37 > 4:01 > 3:29 > 2:58 now)..oh well I suck at this game and 3d. ^^

---
Dragon Quest 5 (PS2) 'Hero' solo: In progress / Super Metroid (cart) 100% Clear Time-00:55 / Dragon Quest 4 (PSX) Hero solo completed: Lv53, rank: Flawless Hero
From: kip | Posted: 7/1/2004 4:38:20 AM
LeCoureur, do you have any idea when you'll start on that 100% run? I was thinking of doing some route testing but I can't think of any good routes besides Radix's... if you have a route you want compared against yours before you start, I might be able to try it out.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 7/1/2004 9:52:05 AM
LeCoureur, do you have any idea when you'll start on that 100% run? I was thinking of doing some route testing but I can't think of any good routes besides Radix's... if you have a route you want compared against yours before you start, I might be able to try it out.

A little less than a month, I'm thinking. My brother is heading out to college around the 24th, so I'll (FINALLY) have the room to myself and won't have to explain the need to be recording myself playing a video game ;p

Also, that should give me enough time to finish testing out routes and whatnot. I hate to say it, but it looks like Radix actually struck on the optimum route for his 1:37... It all just flows so perfectly, and it all has purpose.

I have to ask, though: what is your opinion on getting Wild later? My 1:45 incorporated it, and I suspect it caused my final time to suffer...
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: kip | Posted: 7/1/2004 10:32:47 AM
so the route you were working on for a long time was the 1:45 one? But it sounded so good... and you must have changed your mind about wild if you got it later, because I thought you were skeptical of it.

The problem I always had when trying to think of a route with later wild is that I couldn't find a smooth way to collect everything in the ruins. Assuming you go to Sunchamber from the back entrance (at about the time you enter Magmoor after the big phen sweep), there are items zooming off in every direction after you get the artifact, but no way that I can see of getting them all without a lot of excess travel.

I also couldn't think of a good route that will have both supers and x-ray when you go there, only supers (and even then I don't know if the route was any good). I don't think no x-ray is much of a problem since supers seek targets though, so this is a minor point.

The other thing that really gets me is trying to come up with a later wild route that also has enough tanks to get newborn early. Since you need at least 12, that means you have no choice but to go pretty much everywhere before the second mines visit, and there are only so many ways to get 12 tanks in this manner. Trying to fit in later wild on top of this just makes it even harder, but I'm not going to say it's hopeless. I probably just suck.

No early newborn is at least a 1.5 minute loss... so it's unlikely a route that doesn't use it will be faster than Radix's. It would be different if Radix had a very convoluted way of getting 12 tanks before the second mines visit (as if just for the sake of being able to get newborn early), but this is not so, in my opinion. That's part of what's so crazy (heh) about his route... I wonder how long it took him to come up with it.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 7/1/2004 12:53:21 PM
No, the 1:45 was something I just did on a whim one day. I wanted to experience firsthand how late Wild would affect a route, as well as my theory on a
Forward->Backward sweep of the Mines, without ever leaving. Doing this meant going straight from Ice to Plasma, no Mines in between. Rather than write a large dissertation on why these both are bad (well I actually just did, but realized no one wants to read it), I'll just leave it at: "They don't work very well."

Honestly, every other route idea I've had just involves too much backtracking to be useful. I don't doubt that they could beat 1:37 thanks to the mountains of new tricks found since Radix did it, but what I'm aiming to do is set a record to stand the test of time (much like 1:04, heh... that will never be broken), and that obviously would entail using the very best route possible. If that means copycatting Radix's route (which looks like it actually is the best)... well, that sucks, but so be it.
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: kip | Posted: 7/1/2004 3:43:39 PM
know what you mean about the copycat thing. I tried hard to find stuff so that I wouldn't be "zoidi's run, except NTSC". Eventually things will probably hit a point where that isn't possible anymore.

After rewatching Radix's run and being able to see all the finer details now, it's easy to see how smart the route is. Makes me think there's just an illusion of choice in 100%; sure you can do something different, but all his visits to areas are perfectly timed and almost exactly when he needs the items there. Like doing the phen sweep and getting spider on the way, in order to collect the expansions that require it in the upcoming ruins sweep... which ends with him right next to the frigate, which then takes him back to the mines.

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether one should take the tallon or Burning Trail path on the way to ice beam. Up until a few months ago, we didn't know tallon was faster (by about 34 seconds), so this is why only recently recorded any/low% runs go the tallon path. But in 100% it's not so simple, since Radix is able to clear out around a third of the ruins while he takes the slower Burning Trail path. In other words it wasn't a total loss, if a loss at all.

If you went the tallon path in 100%, there may not be a good way of getting the items he does later.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 7/1/2004 5:03:11 PM
It's almost humbling to see how our thinking is similar, kip. When I said "everything has a purpose" a few posts ago, that example of Spider Ball -> Ruins was the exact example I had in mind.

The "illusion of choice" thing probably isn't too far off the mark, either. When I first started speedrunning this game, I labored over my 2:14 route for nearly two months. I had never watched a speed run video and Radix's run was not out, but I was able to thoroughly review everything on metroid2002, these topics, et al., and still end up with a route good enough for the 3rd best run in the world (and it wasn't all that different from Radix's, actually)! The point is, anyone with half of a brain can look at the game and see that things just need to be done a certain way to do it efficiently - Spider Ball -> Ruins being one of them.

The Tallon/Burning Trail thing is quite simple, as I see it. Just take the Tallon path, then quickly cross Main Plaza, clear out the Hive Mecha area, exit through the Vault, and continue to the Ice Beam. If I remember correctly, Radix took Burning Trail, went to the Vault, then had to backtrack to get to Hive Mecha. So if you did it like I said, you would gain those 34 seconds through the Tallon route, then lose only 9 or 10 getting across Main Plaza... it's still a ~24 second gain, though, unless I'm forgetting something. Maybe a timing is in order?
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: Radix37 | Posted: 7/1/2004 5:14:27 PM
Radix's route (which looks like it actually is the best).

It's not the best for the Main Quarry missile ... you should get it on the first trip to the mines using the without spider method, and then later you dont have to climb the stairs again.

unless I'm forgetting something

Yeah, the two missiles in/near triclops pit... if you don't take the BT path back, you have to get them on the way to phen w/o boost.
---
Webmaster - Speed Demos Archive http://planetquake.com/sda/
Quake, Metroid, Zelda etc speed runs!
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 7/1/2004 5:31:17 PM
It's not the best for the Main Quarry missile ... you should get it on the first trip to the mines using the without spider method, and then later you dont have to climb the stairs again.

That one's a given. The no-spider method is even quicker than the one WITH spider, right? So that would only make sense. And when I say your route is the best, I just mean the general flow between areas - almost a year after your run, I would hope there would be quicker ways to get specific items ;)

Yeah, the two missiles in/near triclops pit... if you don't take the BT path back, you have to get them on the way to phen w/o boost.

True, it's probably a few seconds quicker to get the one in Storage Cavern if you have boost , but the missile in the pillar can be gotten with a dash off a puffer. Pretty stylish, and quicker than going behind the pillar and jumping up to it. Without boost, it's 7 seconds loss AT MOST. Still quicker than the Burning Trail route =P
---
Metroid Prime 100% Run - 1:45
Any% Run - 1:32 (39%)
From: kip | Posted: 7/1/2004 11:54:02 PM
since you can't get early newborn on hard, maybe this is a case where hard would actually have a meaningful difference in what can be done, unlike say if I did a hard any% which would just be grabbing a few more items. =\

Although, some things still apply, like needing spider to clear the ruins, and needing supers for the second mines visit to get the MQB missile.

Later wild is possibly easier to justify on hard also, if it takes 2 supers to kill a ghost... would think that's quicker than 8 charged shots or whatever, but I don't know, given the immense lag after firing a super.
From: SpamDroid Alpha | Posted: 7/2/2004 12:32:32 AM
Don't mind me, I'm just here to SPAM...
---
SPAM
From: AgriasOaks | Posted: 7/2/2004 12:33:24 AM
Kip owns..1:04 was very nice, and impossible for me to emulate..as well as Radix's 1:37.

---
Dragon Quest 5 (PS2) 'Hero' solo: In progress / Super Metroid (cart) 100% Clear Time-00:55 / Dragon Quest 4 (PSX) Hero solo completed: Lv53, rank: Flawless Hero
From: AgriasOaks | Posted: 7/2/2004 12:34:08 AM
Gogogo 8.0.

---
Dragon Quest 5 (PS2) 'Hero' solo: In progress / Super Metroid (cart) 100% Clear Time-00:55 / Dragon Quest 4 (PSX) Hero solo completed: Lv53, rank: Flawless Hero