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Fastest Times Ranking and Sequence Breaking Discussion, V6.0

Archived by

Xin

From: njahnke | Posted: 12/3/2003 1:08:32 PM
Welcome to the world of Sequence Breaking, version six.

Sequence Breaking is the act of obtaining items in Metroid Prime out of order or of skipping said items entirely.

Our goal is to push the game as far as we can by getting the lowest possible percent of item pickups, by beating the game as quickly as possible, and by beating the game as quickly as possible with all items (100% pickups).

For further information on Sequence Breaking (including a complete list of what is currently possible), please visit:
http://www.metroid2002.com/

Currently in progress are several Speed Runs, our attempt to skip the Space Jump Boots (though not yet with the goal of lowering the minimal percent), and a secret plan I'm working on that will greatly benefit the entire community.

RULES FOR HIGH SCORE SUBMISSION (It's as easy as one, two, three! :P)

[1] Check that your time is faster than at least one time on the official scoreboard (available here and on Metroid 2002 at ).
[2] If this is your first submission in that category, you will need to present complete video evidence of your Speed Run/Low Percent Game/Frigate Escape. For example, if you are presenting a Low Percent time, even if one of your Frigate Escape times has already been accepted, you will need to present the complete video of your Low Percent run. It is fairly easy to record your playing using a standard VHS VCR. If you are unable to transfer the video to your computer, I can do it for you. Contact me at nate@metroid2002.com and we can make arrangements for me to receive your video.
[3] Even if you are already "trusted" in a category, you are encouraged to record your subsequent runs and/or share your route and any special techniques you use with this topic. The Sequence Breakers reserve the right to question any time we deem unrealistic.

HIGH SCORES

Any %: Normal
1. Radix37 1:19 (32%)
2. kip 1:23 (33%)
3. z0idi 1:33 (38%) <<<PAL>>>
4. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
5. Andrew Mills 1:49 (52%) <<<PAL>>>

Any %: Hard
1. Radix37 1:45 (33%)
2. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
3. Andrew Mills 2:35 (47%) <<<PAL>>>
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Low %: Normal
1. TreborSelbon 2:20 (22%)
2. TreborSelbon 1:38 (23%)
3. gamecubeman27 2:29 (23%)
4. Andrew Mills 3:39 (23%) <<<PAL>>>
5. JDAdams 7:54 (24%) <<<PAL>>>

Low %: Hard
1. TreborSelbon 3:10 (23%)
2. kip 4:00 (24%)
3. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

100%: Normal
1. Radix37 1:37
2. njahnke 1:50
3. LeCoureur103 2:14
4. Andrew Mills 3:10 <<<PAL>>>
5. Madzombie 3:56 <<<PAL>>>

100%: Hard
1. Radix37 1:58
2. CAL Foolio 2:49
3. MetaRidley2 3:15
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
1. kip 4:22.05
2. njahnke 4:20.83
3. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
4. z0idi 4:14.xx <<<PAL>>>
5. Andrew Mills 4:11.78 <<<PAL>>>

---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 12/3/2003 2:01:26 PM
Nice first post Nate :)

Is there a vid available for Geo without boost? I really need to see it.
From: jamescom1 | Posted: 12/3/2003 3:21:13 PM
Wow, sixth already!
---
WARNING The big enemy is approaching at full throttle
According to the data, it is identified as "Butsutekkai" NO REFUGE
From: MrGuru | Posted: 12/3/2003 4:40:21 PM
Alright, I decided to go for the dbj in the Twin Fires tunnel, and I managed to do it on my first try! So then I proceeded to the save point and back to the geothermal core to try for the plasma beam. I soon got the hang of it, falling into the lava a few times. In a short time, I got up to the spider square things, and I OVERSHOT the damn door and fell to my death. I'm all set to try again, I'm sure I can get it very soon. =)
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
From: MrGuru | Posted: 12/3/2003 4:57:44 PM
Well I just got the Plasma beam! Thanks to all who helped. I will do more later....
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/3/2003 5:35:40 PM
thanks gamecube04. and no vid exists of 22% geo yet. :/ i'm working on it, but it's really hit or miss, with emphasis on the miss.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/3/2003 6:52:01 PM
Seeing how v5 is done and my post probably will get missed, thought I would repost it here:

Ever wondered if you could get wavebuster without shooting all those missiles, and of course without moonjump? Well kip and I have something you may want to see:

;p

to see what is going on:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/wavebuster_no_missiles.mp4

for speed (yes, I know I messed up at the end, but by the time I finally got it, I had enough of the room):

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/demented_tower_of_light.mp4

A little note. In the first vid I do a ghetto jump onto the first ledge, but that is slow so that is why I do a scan dash in the second..fear not you PAL users, it should work for you ;p I was actually going to do one with a ghetto backwards, but I dislike doing them in a speed run for I always mess them up.

****

Something else. Found something about sheegoth. If you lay a bomb when she is using her breath, you will stun here (probably not new)..but on hard, if you do that 4 times, that will kill sheegoth. Does this mean you only need to do it twice on normal? dunno..oh 1 bomb can stun her as well, but the timing is a lot harder then if you layed 3 each pass.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/sheegoth_hard_12_bombs.mp4

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: Videogaming | Posted: 12/3/2003 9:02:46 PM
Hmmm...when will this secret plan of yours be revealed?

One question about metroid2002: Was the Seqbreak content really ported from mhq or was it simply paraphrased by Nate? No offense, but I prefered the way mhq described it to how Nate does it. Also, not a big deal, but it does become annoying...would you mind using capitals on your site? It wouldn't take long, and IMO it would make your site look better and more professional.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/3/2003 9:16:10 PM
all of the textual s.breaking content should have been ported. if i missed something, you should let me know.

on the use of capitals, you are the first to say they would prefer capital letters on the site. i'm curious as to how it looks unprofessional if the entire site is done consistently in that manner (except where a longer, background-oriented piece was written, for example under meet the s.breakers). many 'professional' sites decline to use capital letters because of the artistic effect that results, and m2k2 is no different.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 12/3/2003 9:22:10 PM
^I thought it was easier on the PHP coding, for some reason.
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: Videogaming | Posted: 12/3/2003 10:50:25 PM
Hmm...well, I like the looks of capitals much better. I have never seen a site that never used capitals aside from your site...and by professional, I mean, sort of, people will take you seriously. There are a lot of bs sites out there, and one way to tell the good from the bad is by bad grammar/spelling/etc. I can imagine someone looking at your site and thinking "wow, this guy doesn't even use capitals, must be a bad site" even though that isn't true. Same goes with your expression of dates. Its always better to be conventional in textual issues.

I cannot see any artistic effect in the lack of using capitals...
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/3/2003 11:22:35 PM
while it is true that a lack of capital letters often suggests a lack of grammatical sense, the two do not go together in the case of my site, and i think that anyone who would judge m2k2 so quickly probably isn't wanted around here anyway.

the dates i can understand. i should probably add dots to clarify where the fields begin and end. it's not my little pet project anymore.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 12/4/2003 8:04:03 PM
"Secret plan"? Sounds sexy...

Tzyr: I recently tried to find a faster way up the Tower of Light... but no dice. So, mad propz to you.

Radix has teh 4 records?! O_O
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/4/2003 9:31:48 PM
LeCoureur103,

Did you menage to download the vid? The speed run one is only 5 megs so not too bad even on 56k. Especially when it is as big as this.

If not and still are stubborn for downloading it ;p I can describ how you get up..but it is easier to show you then describ..but I can try.

It is so weird though how easy it was. kip told me to use AR to find any invisible ledges...almost immediately I found one and I did not use anything but a sj to get up. So I turned off my cube to restart it without AR and found I could get up there easily (the ghetto one).

Unfortunately you cannot ghetto on the other two, but I looked around and it looked like observatory (only this was shorter distance)..so I tried doing the dash (and since there are a lot of things to dash from it is not hard to get a good angle) and I found myself on the window ledge. And since the jump to the top three are not effected by the room falling, I was able to get to wavebuster easily :)

Now, to find a good way in MQA and a couple other rooms and I will continue my speed run :)

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/4/2003 10:02:48 PM
Thanks a lot, Kip!

Right now I'm saved at :17 at burning trail. I've made it to the Reflecting pool in :30 before, so I can do that too. So basically all I have to do is, when I get the ice beam, instead of going to the mines, I go to magmoor, get plasma...

*keeps reading* WHAT?! You got the SPIDER BALL?! I'll have to consider that.

Also I cannot LIVE without the Ice spreader. I love doing double-freezes to MP, which drastically cuts down on the time I fight his first form (by about 2-3 minutes), depending on how many times he turns white and how many missles I have.

So I'm going to have to make a little modification to this route. After I get plasma, I go to Phendrana's edge and get the 2 artifacts there + the power bomb, then go into the mines and grab the p-bomb, then go fight thardus, get the artifact in the chozo ice temple, and go back to root cave and grab the ice spreader along the way. That shouldn't be more than 2-3 minutes out of the way. Plus, I'm very good at the plasma processing w/o spider ball trick so that shouldn't pose a thread either.
From: Luigio | Posted: 12/4/2003 10:05:49 PM
WOOHOO IM BACK!!!!!!! I've been playing hardcore Runescape for a while, and have been neglecting my poor poor metroid prime. Andrew, anything new on the secret worlds? Any new ones? kip, whats new on sequence breaking? beaten the no boost ball game? Anything that needs to be worked on or needed to be helped with? Im free, so whatever you guys wanna solve, im here to help.
P.S: To whoever has a turbo controller: Turn on the turbo with the A button, and go on the power beam and hold the A button..... Yar Har
---
SIGNATUREWITHSPACESCOMINGSOON.
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/4/2003 10:13:36 PM
Let's see.

-there are now 10 secret worlds.
-No boost ball 22% has been solved.
-We're working on No Space Jump so head over to Geothermal core.
-Radix got 1:37 100% and 1:19 any %.
-I'm working on beating 1:19 :)
-the SW guys are trying to do weird things like get the 4th energy tank from training chamber and get morph ball bombs without morph ball.
-You can now P-bomb ridley thanks to me!!

That's about all.
From: Luigio | Posted: 12/4/2003 10:25:24 PM
Gotcha. The best thing i can do is get a missile expansion before the missile... Heh...
---
SIGNATUREWITHSPACESCOMINGSOON.
From: kip | Posted: 12/5/2003 12:57:51 AM
ice spreader is great against prime, just need a lot of missiles to use it. how many missiles are you planning?

in the current route you have 20 at the end, but there are other ones you can get with minimal time loss like: gathering hall, transport tunnel b, elite control access, main plaza grapple expansion (at the start, then leave the half pipe one to get on the way to lifegiver later on).

remember that the times at each save point are old. :30 at the ice beam is no longer good, you need :27 or low :28 now.

spider's in the route, but it might go eventually. just trying to find a way to make it worth it. you get like 3 minutes for not fighting thardus, but right now 1 of those is almost lost back at mqa due to having to pbomb the walls and do it the slow way. other problems are only being able to leave the mines through phazon processing center after gettig the main pbomb, and the "fact" that quarantine cave is an important room to pass through, but no one can find a way through without waking up thardus.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 12/5/2003 1:18:09 AM
I just sucessfully got the Space Jump boots right off the bat for the first time tonight! It took me about 15 minutes of trying before I finally got it. =)
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/5/2003 1:31:55 AM
way to go. even quicker than me my first time. :)
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/5/2003 1:56:38 AM
so, i've learned how to get the space jump at my first try.. i've learned to beat frigate under 6 min! but the problem is that im pal.. is there any place i can get zoidis run? i really need it!
From: kip | Posted: 12/5/2003 9:08:59 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/fast_grapple.avi

example of how fast your grappling after seeing ridley can be, if L is let go at just the right time.
From: Luigio | Posted: 12/5/2003 11:06:13 AM
well, my first time getting the space jump boots first try was....... Say, 9-10 minutes! yar har.
---
SIGNATUREWITHSPACESCOMINGSOON.
From: Luigio | Posted: 12/5/2003 6:23:48 PM
*crickets*
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*more crickets*
Okay, im going to try myvery first project! The no grapple game! I dont care if its been done, but im going to try to figure itout anyways! YAY! so now i can say i figured out somthing myself besides the missile expansionbefore missile launcher! wewt!
---
SIGNATUREWITHSPACESCOMINGSOON.
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/5/2003 6:25:37 PM
The no grapple game! I dont care if its been done, but im going to try to figure itout anyways!

Grapple was skipped a long time ago. But if you want to figure out all by your lonsome, more power to you.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: Luigio | Posted: 12/5/2003 7:14:57 PM
(censored), its already been done. I guess ill just help with the no boost game. (I've completed the geo core with the no boost :)) So we can skip geo core. Where to next?
---
SIGNATUREWITHSPACESCOMINGSOON.
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/5/2003 7:45:11 PM
I guess ill just help with the no boost game. (I've completed the geo core with the no boost :)) So we can skip geo core. Where to next?

Nowhere. No boost is done. B-)

No Space Jump needs a lot of work done, in Geo Core specifically. That's the next most likely item to be skipped.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/5/2003 9:03:16 PM
I see. And thardus dies a lot faster with the plasma beam too.

When I did my 1:37 game, I had 50 missles. That's 5 ice spreader shots. Ideally I should have 60, so I can pull off 3 double shots, 1 in each subchamber. But that'll take way too much time.

I have to work on the Fire and Ice run. I saved at Gathering Hall with a time of :29. It's better than I've ever done before, but not record-worthy. But hey, I didn't get 1:37 all at one time... I've played 8 speed runs in total, the very first was 2:35 or something and ever since then I've been cutting more and more time off my score! I have a feeling that my next time will be something like 1:32, or less depending on how fast the new route is.
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 12/5/2003 9:12:00 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Videogaming | Posted: 12/5/2003 9:39:08 PM
Well, I was looking at sun tower today, and I can finally do the no-spider way, but not consistently yet...anyway, I found that you can dbj fairly easily for a quicker way to get up. You have to watch your bomb count though. Might be useful to gain a couple seconds in speed runs, I dunno.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/6/2003 2:23:58 AM
i have imported the european (pal) version of metroid prime and compiled an illustrated list of differences on www.metroid2002.com.

in addition, i scientifically measured several supposed differences between the european version and the north american version and debunked all but one of them.

samus's turning speed, r turning speed, and r looking speed (straight up and down) are 100% identical in both versions, down to the frame. any "snappiness" apparently present in either version is a result of a bit of psychology called the placebo effect.

it is true, however, that certain doors in the game take longer to open. i noticed that the loader must have been drastically altered for the european version, because my gamecube sounded very different when loading rooms compared to when playing my north american copy. we can only speculate what retro did to (apparently!) fix the crashes, but we must now deal with the consequences.

comparing two nearly identical frigate escapes, one from each version, i was able to discern a definite "PAL Handicap" present in every pal player's frigate escape. this handicap, 0:04:67 (four minutes and sixty-seven hundreths of a second) was determined by adding the differences between the door arrival and opening times for four doors in the frigate escape:

- the exploding pipe cover,
- the door before ridley,
- the door after ridley (before the electric hall) and
- the second to last door which displays a pressurization message.

all other doors opened in an identical amount of time.

this handicap will remain constant for every pal player during every pal frigate escape, and so i propose a change to the high score ranking: instead of having separate categories for north american ("ntsc") and european (pal) frigate escape times, why not combine the two by adding 0:04:67 to every pal frigate escape. in my opinion, this would be a boon to players on both sides of the ocean, encouraging more heated competition.

the proposed new frigate escape time ranking would look like this:

Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
1. kip 4:22.05
2. njahnke 4:20.83
3. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
4. z0idi 4:18.67+ <<<PAL (4:14.xx)>>>
5. Andrew Mills 4:16.45 <<<PAL (4:11.78)>>>

comments?

and enjoy the changes gallery, everyone!
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/6/2003 2:27:55 AM
CORRECTION: 0:04:67 (four minutes and sixty-seven hundreths of a second)

that should read 0:04:67 (four SECONDS and sixty-seven hundreths of a second)
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Videogaming | Posted: 12/6/2003 1:44:42 PM
I agree. But be sure to put both original PAL time, and edited with the +4.67.

Starting a new game to try out the new SB techniques (I haven't played in A WHILE.) Gonna try to go spiderless and gravless.
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/6/2003 4:28:31 PM
that makes my best frigate escape time (*counts*)
4:14:44.. ehm.. ^^
---
SA2B: 171/180 Emblems, SMS: 120/120 shines, LoZ:WW: Done everything!, MP: 100%/100% (duh..), SSBM: 290/290 trophies BtT: Who cares? HRC: 16687.4 M
From: Luigio | Posted: 12/6/2003 6:05:49 PM
Alright then, where are we on the no space jump game?
Boost has been done My bad. I havent been here for a few months so meh... So what percentage are we going for now?
---
SIGNATUREWITHSPACESCOMINGSOON.
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/6/2003 8:04:36 PM
So what percentage are we going for now?

A lot of people agree that it won't get any lower than 22%. At least not for a long time. However, it may be possible to skip the Space Jump without lowering the percent (as in still using the grapple beam, spider ball, and other useful tools). Dropping it to 21%, at present, looks to be very unlikely.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 12/6/2003 10:51:52 PM
Yeah, 21% looks very unlikely, unless, somehow, the guys over in the Secret World topic can find a way to make the no Morph Ball game work...the current theory is that picking up the MB bombs could give you the MB power (somewhat similar to how the missile expansions give you the missile launcher), but no one can seem to make the Burn Dome load from the SW.

Man, I hate having tons of homework AND being sick at the same time...stupid college english class *grumble grumble*. I might be able to get back to MP within the week, but it's looking doubtful.
---
Karma: 350+ Board User Level: 32: Legend
The Legend Will Never Die
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/6/2003 11:18:50 PM
the current theory is that picking up the MB bombs could give you the MB power (somewhat similar to how the missile expansions give you the missile launcher), but no one can seem to make the Burn Dome load from the SW.

All evidence points to the fact that getting bombs before morph ball will NOT give you morph ball. The chances of that actually working out are extremely low.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: Luigio | Posted: 12/7/2003 9:58:13 AM
Right, Right. Hey, Andrew, Since you have the AR and all, have you checked what would happen if you got super missile before missile/ wavebuster before wave beam, stuff like that. Anyways, im going for a speed run now, wish me luck on the space jump following landing!
---
SIGNATUREWITHSPACESCOMINGSOON.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 12/7/2003 4:57:03 PM
I really need help with Vent Shaft without boost. I have no trouble doing the bomb jump, but I can never get enough height. Usually, I get enough height that Samus's waist to her knees will clear the ledge but I struggle to get much more height than that. There have also been at least 5 times where I must have missed getting up there by a pixel or so, but they were mainly luck. It seems random to me to get that much height.

Kip/Trebor, did you guys do anything different to get enough height to clear the ledge? Or should I keep on trying and hope to get lucky enough to get enough height. I've tried it for over 5 hours now, and it's really frustrating. >_<
From: kip | Posted: 12/7/2003 5:27:17 PM
have you seen this?

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/vent_shaft.avi

the one time i got it, it looked like that. most of my attempts ended up like what you said though, lots of them falling just short when nothing seemed to be done wrong. i'm not that great at this one yet so i don't think i'm in a position to give advice.

i do know that i've never gotten close to making it unless i got samus to "crawl" up the half pipe higher on the second time she moves against it (it's seen in the vid; happens right after i place bomb 2). in kyuenjin's initial explanation of this trick, he also noted that it was important to get that higher second crawl iirc. the extra height helps a lot, not sure it's possible to even make it without that.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/7/2003 8:18:58 PM
More good news for any hard runners. I was able to kill Omega Pirate just now in one round! And it only took 3 power bombs to do it!

The timing is very hard to do, basically you have to force him to go to "his" pool first (just like how radix did in his 100% run). After you have managed to destroy his armour and killed the troops that comes, when he laughs a third time (it is quieter and deeper), if you wait about 6-7 seconds, you can boost over to his pool and lay a pb before he shows up. I waited a little too long in my vid which is good news for you do not have to do it perfectly then.

After you lay the pb, unmorph and switch to x-ray. If you layed the pb in the wrong place, you will not do much damage to him..but if done correctly, you can do a little more then 1/3rd damage to him.

After you see his life go down, get over to the left pit (the one that is left of you as you enter the room). Because OP does not go to the same pit twice in a row, he will then go to the other pit (That is right of you if you enter from the door).

Wait about 4 seconds after you hear him disapear, then boost over to the pit (if you went too soon, he will appear in the pit you were just at..no good) and lay a bomb. Switch to x-ray again and after he gets damaged move back to the left pit.

Because he cannot go to the right pit, he is forced to go either to his pit or the one you are at. Well you can trick him by laying a PB, then boost over to his pit. This way when he appears in the pit you were just at the PB will hit him and should be enough to kill him :)

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/OP_hard_1_round.mp4

I just need to work on Thardus, elite pirate, phazon elite and MP's 2 forms. Those are really the only thing in a hard game that will make the game slower then a normal one (other then being 5-20 seconds slower for some of the other bosses..but nothing major).

I will keep you posted if I find anything else :)

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: Ir0n BeasT | Posted: 12/7/2003 11:06:42 PM
how many sequence breaking are there

---
MP best %1hour: 60%
Current playing Seiken Densetsu 3, Spuer Metroid, Secret of mana, Metroid Prime
From: LeSSkunk | Posted: 12/7/2003 11:25:34 PM
This is a q for those low % runners.

I was wondering if you plan to make a vid of either a 23% or 22%. The runs by kip and Radix were just great, and I cant imagine how hard 22% could be.
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 12/7/2003 11:34:18 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 12/7/2003 11:35:44 PM
From: Ir0n BeasT | Posted: 12/7/2003 8:06:42 PM | Message Detail
how many sequence breaking are there

There is many sequence breaking! Going to www.metroid2002.com to learning much, yes?

From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 12/7/2003 11:37:56 PM
There are many much of the breaking sequence.
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/7/2003 11:45:16 PM
LeSSkunk, please contact me via email (nate@metroid2002.com) and we can go from there.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 12/8/2003 7:22:34 PM
can some1 tell me the irc channel. oh, yeah and bump.
---
What do you call a female dog who hasn't posted any worthwhile times?
Everyone's *****. Congratulations... you can be the backup mascot. - Shinkutat
From: Videogaming | Posted: 12/8/2003 7:48:30 PM
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 12/7/2003 8:35:44 PM | Message Detail
From: Ir0n BeasT | Posted: 12/7/2003 8:06:42 PM
how many sequence breaking are there

There is many sequence breaking! Going to www.metroid2002.com to learning much, yes?

LOL
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/8/2003 8:35:52 PM
can some1 tell me the irc channel. oh, yeah and bump.

#metroid on esper.net. If you don't have an irc client, you can use the one provided on http://www.metroid2002.com (click on "Chat").
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 12/8/2003 8:37:55 PM
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 12/9/2003 12:14:34 AM | Message Detail
can some1 tell me the irc channel. oh, yeah and bump

#metroid on EsperNet

You can access it via this GCI:IRC client if you don't wish to download something: http://www.metroid2002.com/cgiirc-0.5.2/irc.cgi

I'm anything with Xin in it (Right now, StylishXin). See you there.
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 12/9/2003 12:22:37 PM
Was there ever a movie of kip's 4:22 frigate escape? That's just amazing... and it's been the record for so long now. How did he do it??

Anyway... it seems that shortcuts through rooms are a fad nowadays, so let's see what else we can come up with.

How about the large room inside the Impact Crater? I thought I read about a way to get up it faster, but I can't remember where this was, or the details. If there is, someone should post it... and if not, someone needs to get to work on that. Preferably, not me ;)

Main Quarry. It would be really great to get to the top right away, as opposed to having to go to the other side and climb the ledges. From the entrance (wave door), you can just about get up the left side with a space jump. Maybe there's a spot on the wall that you can land on, then jump up from there.

Waste Disposal. Okay... you've just entered from Main Quarry, and you've bombed your way up to the top. You roll around the corner... then have to drop down a long way and bomb back up to the top, costing many seconds... or do you? No, you don't. It is actually possible to BOOST across the gap up there. I have done it only a handful of times, but I'm not sure how exactly. A consistent method of boosting across up there would be beneficial to all.

Mine Security Station/Phazon Elite's Room (don't remember the name). When you enter the Phazon Elite's room from behind for the first time, the wall is still there, as you haven't blown it up yet. Nate, did you not say one time that you managed to get past it? If so, this is a good thing. I am thinking that if an easy, reproducable method of getting past it was found, here is what you could do: enter the room, drop down to the Phazon Elite, kill him (duh), go to Mine Security Station, and get the Flamethrower without having to backtrack to blow up the grate so you can deactivate the force field. This would be a very smooth run, avoiding the backtracking in MSS and the climbing of the PE's room... although I suppose this would only be useful in 100% runs.

That's all I can think of for now. If anyone else thinks of an area that needs a shortcut, don't hesitate to post it! Our crack team of Sequence Breakers will get right on it! I WOULD try some of these out now, but we're having a storm, and my TV sort of... died. *cries*
From: kip | Posted: 12/9/2003 12:49:17 PM
escape video is here:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.22.05(7).avi

nothing special done to get the time, it was just a decent run. but not without some mistakes.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/9/2003 1:28:41 PM
How about the large room inside the Impact Crater?

Yep, if you watch the beginning of Radix' vid 15 of his run, you will see how he gets up there. I have not been able to do it myself yet..but then again, I do not have a reason yet to get up there till I get my hard game back to the ship (saved at 86% 2:16 after newborn at mqb).

From what I have seen and what they said, it is jumping on the red candies...since I have not done it myself, hard to explain ;p but you know as you enter Phazon Core (room with two fision metroids), there is the orange phazon that goes around in a river type thing? Well if you go to where it meets on the right, if you jump to the other side against the wall, you can ghetto up to an invisible ledge, then if you look right, there should be something that you can see you can jump to. Just keep going up there and it should bring you right were you sould be after the missile recharger.

Main Quarry.

I am sure there is a way as well. I know if you enter from the main door (wave), you can jump onto something then make a jump to the save door. And from the save door you can jump to the above platform..so if you can find something in the middle, I am sure you can make it. You know where the lower platform (where the pirate will drop out if you get too close) and the ledge that you can jump to, to reach the above platform? I know there is a ledge you can land on there, so maybe if you jumped there you could make it..again hard to explain since I have not done it, so if I get time I could try later.

Waste Disposal.

I have been able to myself, but like you, no idea how I did it. I have seen someone drop down, use boost and a bomb to get back up there though..

Mine Security Station/Phazon Elite's Room

Elite research is the room you are looking for. And yes, you can get through the wall if it is still there (so from ore processing). Thing is, it seems random. How it works is you jump into it (you will get stuck), morph, lay bombs till you cannot get any higher up, then boost your way through the wall. It is not like you see yourself inch yourself through the wall..all of a sudden BANG! you are flying into the room...problem is, sometimes you can get it almost right away, other times I spent several minutes nothing...not really sure how to do it well..it is apart of my route so I need to learn how to do it consistantly or I just wasted any time going this way.

About MSS. One thing you need to make sure you do is get in main quarry and deactivate the forcefield first or you cannot make it out to main quarry. Now, if you just want to grab flame thrower and return to ore processing...not sure if that is faster or not..you still have to fight the shadow pirates and the wave pirates.

In my route since I do not enter main quarry till the very end, I decided to come from elevator entrance in ore processing -> jump to the grapple door -> fall down and enter elite research, boost through the wall, grab missile expansion and blow up door -> ore processing -> waste -> main quarry, grab expansion -> MSS, pb wall, scan flamethrower forcefield -> p.elite -> grab flamethrower -> main quarry

it is the run around..but getting up ore processing after grapple (cause pirates are gone) is easier then getting up elite research with all those different pirates shooting at you.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/10/2003 8:14:42 AM
im getting a new comp. for x-mas with tv-out and i might be getting the ntsc ver and a freeloader (but that req. a 60 hz tv :( ) so the q. is.
would you accept me as a speedrunner?
i can do most of the tricks without a problem, like SJ first is easy as hell ^^
---
SA2B: 171/180 Emblems, SMS: 120/120 shines, LoZ:WW: Done everything!, MP: 100%/100% (duh..), SSBM: 290/290 trophies BtT: Who cares? HRC: 16687.4 M
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/10/2003 9:41:17 AM
i think the rules (first post) are pretty clear. just submit and be approved!
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 12/10/2003 3:23:50 PM
*trumpets blare*

Main Quarry... IS SOLVED!

That's right folks: a brand new speed trick from your old pal LeCoureur! It's quite simple, really... so much so, that I'm suspicious as to why no one found it yet. Anyway...

So you've just entered Main Quarry from the wave door. You want to get to the top so you can dash over to Waste Disposal, and maybe even pick up the missile, if you're into that sort of thing. Should you l-jump across the room, climb the ledges, then bust back across the catwalk, all while taking heavy fire from those dastardly Space Pirates?! HECK NO! Here's what you're going to do:

1. Enter the room.
2. Follow the left wall until it meets the drop-off, then step away from the wall a little bit.
3. Do a high-quality l-space-jump towards the spot where the catwalk meets the rock ledge.
4. Land on a tiny... er... land-able spot where they meet.
5. Jump up to the top of giant structure.
6. Party.

That might have been complicated, but it's really pretty simple... so here's a diagram that probably won't help.

..............._____
####___/...........\____
####___.............__X_
###O.....\______/

This is an overhead view of the catwalk. The #'s are the rock ledge, the lines are the catwalk, the X is where the pirate breaks out, and the O is where you want to land. The periods are, of course just spaces. Ignore them. If that doesn't help, I don't know what will.

ESTIMATED TIME SAVED: 14-15 SECONDS

From: kip | Posted: 12/10/2003 5:39:20 PM
frigate escape 4:22:87

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.22.87.avi

there were some mistakes, but at least now i know for sure that 4:23 is possible without the instant unmorph in the electric hall; with it, 4:24 could be gotten. i also know for sure that 5:07 at ridley is possible. i think 5:08 too, but that's beyond my reach.
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/10/2003 10:56:03 PM
What do you say we make a "speed run shortcut faq" where we list every time-saving trick that's been discovered?

Oh, and:

Chozo ruins main plaza: Say you just got the artifact in the tower of light and you want to go to ruined fountain. After coming through the door, go around the corner to the right. There is a pillar on the wall which you can jump onto (it has a bird symbol on the wall behind it). Once you're standing on it, you can stand on an even higher part by jumping against the wall. you know you've got it when a polygon skewers your visor. Then, it's just a few simple jumps to the ruined fountain access. It saves about 3s.

Waste Disposal: I've been able to do that too, it all depends on which way your ball is turned. It's just about as random as the crashed frigate boost-straight-down thing.

Elite research: If you're coming from the front, you can dbj over the wall that the wave pirates set up when you get to the second level.

Metroid Quarentine B: 1) W/o spider ball. Start on the mushroom next to the entrance, jump onto a square on the wall to the right, then jump onto the lower pipe on the right side of the spider ball track.

2) When coming from the save point, it's actually not faster to boost all the way to the plasma door up top. The faster way is: Boost to the base of the ramp, unmorph, jump backward, jump to the top ledge, then go through the plasma door.

Incinerator drone: I think the direction in which ID's weak point appears is always the same every time you play. It's :

0 = entrance door

1.
--
0

2.
|
0

3.
--
0

4.
|
0

Magmoor workstation: getting from phendrana shoreline to root cave. Boost across the bridge, through the computer room, down the ramp, unmorph in the air and move toward the door in midair, and you should have missed all the shots from the turrets and not fallen in the magma.

Arboretum: when coming to fight flaahgra, you can jump from the door platform straight to tree platform #2.

Flaahgra: You can bomb flaahgra from outside of the morph ball slot, but only when her tentacles are retracted. space jump across the acid pool, morph in midair, lay a bomb right next to the bomb slot. It's really fast, but it's dangerous and it's easy to mess up. sometimes you'll get lucky and land on a ledge right next to the morph ball slot.

Suntower access: When going to fight flaahgra, shoot the first reaper vine. Then, go around it and move along the right wall past the second reaper vine. Jump over the third reaper vine. No damage.

From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:03:48 PM
2) When coming from the save point, it's actually not faster to boost all the way to the plasma door up top. The faster way is: Boost to the base of the ramp, unmorph, jump backward, jump to the top ledge, then go through the plasma door.

You REALLY need to watch my vids and kips, because we know this stuff already. Don't give me an excuse about being on a modem or having a connection limit, there's things called download managers that let you resume downloads. Plenty of people on modems have downloaded them. Oh and Nate is already compiling a list of all the little speed tricks on metroid2002.com, many of them area already online.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:13:38 PM
hey radix, i couldnt seem to do that clipping glitch exploit to fight the chozo ghosts and get the artifact right after flaaghra, so my time in burning trail is 1 minute below yours at that point - where's the best place in your run path to fight them again? how many extra minutes you think it will cost me?
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:20:09 PM
SteelWing: yeah the sun tower trick is quite difficult... you should practice it on a 100% file to get good, but I can understand your desire to skip it. The only time you can really come back for wild later is after where I get the wavebuster, but you can do a slight route change to cut down on the loss. In part5 I get the vault missile and then go back to the elevator to get the stuff along the ruined nursery path. Instead of that just go forward to main plaza, then after wavebuster go through the ruined nursery path for that stuff. You'll end up at sun tower and you can do the normal way. You can then leave through arboretum, unless you bomb jumped over the gate, because it'll still be there and getting over it from the back side is difficult. The good thing is you'll have supers for the ghosts, but still no x-ray. The difference in time is about 2 minutes I think.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:26:35 PM
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 4/16/2003 8:51:21 PM
i dont care how much of an "expert" he is - two and a half hours on hard 100% is DEFINATELY impossible and i have NO IDEA how you have played through the game yet cannot see that....u ppl are crazy, just beating all of the bosses takes a good hour combined....two and a half is absolutely rediculous for 100%, i would somewhat believe someone who said they got that time with 24%, but NEVER in my life would i believe 100% in that time....hell, just to walk through every room in the game takes a good two hours WITHOUT stopping to fight a lot of enemies, not to mention go back for expansions after pieces of equipment

Times sure change, eh SteelWingX? ;)
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:43:21 PM
"SteelWing: yeah the sun tower trick is quite difficult... you should practice it on a 100% file to get good, but I can understand your desire to skip it. The only time you can really come back for wild later is after where I get the wavebuster, but you can do a slight route change to cut down on the loss. In part5 I get the vault missile and then go back to the elevator to get the stuff along the ruined nursery path. Instead of that just go forward to main plaza, then after wavebuster go through the ruined nursery path for that stuff. You'll end up at sun tower and you can do the normal way. You can then leave through arboretum, unless you bomb jumped over the gate, because it'll still be there and getting over it from the back side is difficult. The good thing is you'll have supers for the ghosts, but still no x-ray. The difference in time is about 2 minutes I think."

You mean after spiderball go back through ruined nursery path? cuz to go the normal way up the suntower requires the spiderball! and you dont have supers in part5! this is confusing me so tell me if this would work too:

starting on part 5 at Burning Trail, I follow your path, get the Vualt missle, get all the crap in the ruined nursery path just like you do, then at one point, you pass through the arborteum to get to Ruined FOuntain area so you can eventually get the Ice Beam. Well, instead of just passing through the arborteum like you, couldn't i just do a little detour and climb to the top of the room to fight the chozo ghosts, get the artifact, then leave the way I came back down to the bottom of the arborteum and follow your path the rest of the way?
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:45:38 PM
LOL Toozin! that post was waaaaaaaaay back when I first got the game and was completely oblivious to sequence breaking but yeh, time do change ;)

I have gotten 100 times better since then which probably explains how I've kept up with radix's time to this point after wavebeam.
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:50:52 PM
whoops i meant Gathering Hall after arborteum, not ruined fountain
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:53:01 PM
Good to see that you've "wised up", so to speak. And congrats on keeping up with Radix so far.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:57:52 PM
SteelWing, you missed the part where I said you'd go back to sun tower after the wavebuster (in part9). You can't get it in part5, I was just saying you should leave the ruined nursery stuff for later.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 12/10/2003 11:58:59 PM
GAH! i just went up the arborteum to find a slew of vines covering the door! >_<

any way to get past this? what can were you guys talking about DBJing over? this one?
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 12/11/2003 12:06:34 AM
okay after wavebuster, you're saying I should go do that ruined nursery stuff and chozo fight to get the artifact, leave through the arborteum, and then what? what about all the crap you get instead of doing what I did? you end up in the arborteum after getting a TON of stuff in part 9
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/11/2003 12:19:03 AM
Between wavebuster and arboretum I only get the ruined foutain missile and the stuff near training center. After the ghost fight you'd go back for those, then resume what I do.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: SteelWingX | Posted: 12/11/2003 12:27:49 AM
but that vine gate will still be there wont it? how do i get past it?
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/12/2003 8:52:07 AM
woho! i got a pretty decent time in frigate escape.

the frigate escape times should now read:
Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
1. kip 4:22.05
2. njahnke 4:20.83
3. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
4. z0idi 4:18.67+ <<<PAL (4:14.xx)>>>
5. TRH 0313 4:16:54 <<<PAL (4.11.87)>>> +Unconfirmed
6. Andrew Mills 4:16.45 <<<PAL (4:11.78)>>>

and oh, did you know its actually possible to jump even if you felled down in a SW? just tap B VERY fast!

one more thing. During the fight with flaahgra (second "form") when your waiting for his "tails" do disappear, put down 2 bombs very fast, when the bombs explodes you reach twice height than usual.. maybe flaahgra isnt the only place to FDBJ (fast double bomb jump :).
---
.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 12/12/2003 11:41:52 AM
@TRH 0313:

Sorry mate, I had that beaten (just) a while ago. Check out the latest records here:

www.samus.co.uk/mprime/world_records.shtml

I have video proof of that run too... :p

Andrew "PAL Speed Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
Updated on: 10th December 2002
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/12/2003 11:50:38 AM
yeah, plus kip climbed up 4:22. since there were no objections to my pal handicap, i'll update the entire high scores list later today.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/12/2003 1:44:29 PM
your evil >_<
---
.
From: Toozin | Posted: 12/12/2003 2:13:51 PM
5. Andrew Mills 4:16.65 <--PAL (4:11.95)--> (Confirmed)

4:11.95 + 4.67 = 4:16.65? Now I'm not math whiz, but... isn't that wrong?

And I'm not sure if you can call it confirmed when no one has seen the vid, even if a vid does exist.
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 12/12/2003 2:30:53 PM
Fixed (sorry, was a typo...) =/

I have also provided a direct link to that run on my time, as well as kip's frigate escape time and links to Nates pages for him and Kip, and Radix's page.

Any more problems, let me know.

Andrew "Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
Updated on: 10th December 2002
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/12/2003 4:14:49 PM
new frigate time 4.12.2x (i think it was 4)
this time i recorded it but youll have to wait for xmas.
no way of uploading it.. yet :P
---
.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/12/2003 9:58:25 PM
4:22.90 escape, downlad here: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~sda/demo.pl?mp/escape42290.zip

That's 5 categories I'm #1 for... at least until kip improves this. I tried for an hour after this for 4:23.x but no luck obviously.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/12/2003 11:19:31 PM
"You REALLY need to watch my vids and kips, because we know this stuff already. Don't give me an excuse about being on a modem or having a connection limit, there's things called download managers that let you resume downloads. Plenty of people on modems have downloaded them. "

I'll gladly download all of these runs when I get to use my friend's DSL in about a week. Besides, I bet you didn't know about Flaahgra :)
From: kip | Posted: 12/13/2003 3:35:16 AM
frigate escape 4:22:92

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.22.92.avi

uh not much to say. radix could easily match/beat it if he cares to.

i think it's funny that i beat my old time despite that horrible incident in biotech... just goes to show there's a lot of time lost we never notice or are aware of since the game doesn't give you a free timer outside of the escape, so you can't easily gauge how you're doing. instead you can only go on feel, most of the time.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/13/2003 7:19:52 AM
just goes to show there's a lot of time lost we never notice or are aware of since the game doesn't give you a free timer outside of the escape, so you can't easily gauge how you're doing. instead you can only go on feel, most of the time.

yeah, reminds me of the pal stuff. anyway, here's the new high scores list:

HIGH SCORES

Any %: Normal
1. Radix37 1:19 (32%)
2. kip 1:23 (33%)
3. z0idi 1:33 (38%) <<<PAL>>>
4. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
5. Andrew Mills 1:49 (52%) <<<PAL>>>

Any %: Hard
1. Radix37 1:45 (33%)
2. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
3. Andrew Mills 2:35 (47%) <<<PAL>>>
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Low %: Normal
1. TreborSelbon 2:20 (22%)
2. TreborSelbon 1:38 (23%)
3. gamecubeman27 2:29 (23%)
4. Andrew Mills 3:39 (23%) <<<PAL>>>
5. JDAdams 7:54 (24%) <<<PAL>>>

Low %: Hard
1. TreborSelbon 3:10 (23%)
2. kip 4:00 (24%)
3. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

100%: Normal
1. Radix37 1:37
2. njahnke 1:50
3. LeCoureur103 2:14
4. Andrew Mills 3:10 <<<PAL>>>
5. Madzombie 3:56 <<<PAL>>>

100%: Hard
1. Radix37 1:58
2. CAL Foolio 2:49
3. MetaRidley2 3:15
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
A scientifically calculated handicap of 0:04.67 is added to PAL Frigate Escape Times.
1. kip 4:22.92
2. Radix37 4:22.90
3. njahnke 4:20.83
4. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
5. z0idi 4:18.67+ <<<PAL (4:14.xx)>>>
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: callmeCRONO | Posted: 12/13/2003 9:27:29 PM
wow...
now i know how much i really suck... got to get better!

---
it is official, this game is a masterpiece, a work of art, and the coolest snowboarding game this side of town-liquid56 on SSX3
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 12/13/2003 11:53:34 PM
To anyone who's interested:

I have a video lying around of Kip going to Metroid Prime in 24% on Hard. It used to be on Metroid HQ, and is now on Metroid2002. It's here at: http://www.metroid2002.com/xin/20_impact_crater_24percent.wmv.avi

It's pretty big (133 megabytes) so it's mostly for those with broadband.
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: LeSSkunk | Posted: 12/14/2003 3:53:25 PM
Well, my new personal best is now 64%, 2:31 on normal... not bad for a first speed run attempt. I could easely remove 10-15 minutes from it because I forgot the artifact of newborn when I saved at the ship. I realised too that, without the wavebuster trick on Ridley, he's pretty tough. I'll have to practice on him. And since I've learn that the phazon pirate cant be release without the powerbombs from the dynamo, I'll have to check my route from the Ice beam.
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/14/2003 10:27:02 PM
"just goes to show there's a lot of time lost we never notice or are aware of since the game doesn't give you a free timer outside of the escape, so you can't easily gauge how you're doing. instead you can only go on feel, most of the time."

Got one word for you: MUSIC
From: kip | Posted: 12/15/2003 3:28:42 AM
yeah but music doesn't tell me if i'm 6:29 entering the tunnels after biotech. it doesn't tell me if i'm 5:26 at the piston, 5:07 at ridley... and so on. the music's always at about the same spot, but being able to actually see your time lets you set up precise "checkpoints".

music helps, but it just isn't the same.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 12/15/2003 10:27:21 AM
Just letting everyone know that all my MP content can also be found on this web address now as well as www.samus.co.uk/mprime...

www.metroid-prime.co.uk =)

It's a bit easier to remember don't you think?

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
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www.metroid-prime.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 10th December 2002
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/15/2003 2:55:08 PM
Andrew, remember when you said "*looks at z0idis pal escape time, dies.*?
check this out:
I recorded a 4'14'66 escape time. :)
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From: DoomdayX | Posted: 12/15/2003 9:39:37 PM
I think i found a new trick that can save a good amount of time for early artifact of wild.

While your fighting the chozo ghosts and shoot them with a charged beam, they stall for a moment before blasting off and disappearing. If you are close enough to the chozo and begin charging immediately, you can fire off another shot at half charge before they dash away. You can continue doing this technique I have dubbed chain firing until the chozo ghost is dead or blasted into a wall.

See an example of chain firing just past the halfway point of this clip from my run of segment 3 of a speed run.

http://www.metroid2002.com/doomdayx/DoomdayX_seg3_22mins.MP4

(its kinda hard to see but upping the brightness and reducing the contrast a bit helps)
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/15/2003 10:01:23 PM
That only works sometimes, for example, if the chozo ghost is planning on flying to another location without disappearing. If you actually get one in this situation, you can keep hitting it with semi-charged shots and kill it right away. It's easier to pull off when you shoot the ghost while it is up in the air, charging a shot at you.

I figured out a freaking easy way to do the frigate crash site jump using one big ghetto jump. But before I post it, I want to know if you know it already. So tell me how you usually like to get up to that white door.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/16/2003 2:18:04 AM
a montage of sequence breaking! check out the m2k2 promo vid: http://www.metroid2002.com/m2k2_promo.html

you will need quicktime, of course... ;P
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 12/16/2003 9:49:57 AM
Well I got past Vent Shaft without boost a few days ago. I actually had to do it twice because the first time I messed up Phazon Processing Center. I messed it up the 2nd time too, but I was able to recover. I also spent 11 minutes looking around for ONE missile refill because I had no missiles for the save room door. Altogether I spent about 10-11 hours on Vent Shaft. I'm happy to have gotten past it, but really disappointed at how the segment went.

Now I'm at Geo Core, and it's a lot harder than I had imagined. When I dash jump off the spore, I can get enough height/distance to make it into the slot, but as soon as I morph I just fall right down the pillar. Are you supposed to get stuck on the pillar right as you morph, or do you get insane height and morph, fall down a bit, and get stuck on your way down?

I've also created a practice game for Life Grove, and I haven't been able to activate the spinner, but I think I've been doing everything right. Is there a vid available for this? I feel dumb asking for all this help, I guess 22% is a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Oh, also, I might have made a new discovery. It's not that big of a deal and it's probably already been discovered, but coming out of Life Grove Tunnel, you can simply do a bomb ladder with a lot of forward momentum and get out. I've only heard of getting out with a triple bomb jump ladder, so it might be new, but I doubt it.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/16/2003 10:05:32 AM
morning.

check http://www.metroid2002.com/geo_in_bomb_slot.avi for what it looks like when you get stuck. i've been stuck an inch or two from the slot before and it didn't suck me in, so it apparently has to be pretty precise. going to restart my 22% in pal though. and so help me, i'm going to !@#$ing nuke europe if i get a read error after i perform one of the big three.

just kidding. :P

dunno if it's known about the dbj. if it doesn't say it on m2k2, probably not. i guess treb will have to weigh in.

i don't currently have the life grove dance vid in my possession...which really sucks, because i don't know how i'm going to get it. i'll try to ask around.

good luck.
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/16/2003 12:12:11 PM
from 4:14:66 to.. 4:16:24! I did do a 4:16:6x/7x but i didnt record it >_<
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From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 12/16/2003 1:38:15 PM
I had a vid somewhere of my doing Life Grove, but I dunno who has it, and I'm not home at the moment. Nate probably has one on his site somewhere.

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It's not only that we think we're the best group in the world, it's just that in our minds we're so much better than whoever is number two. ~ Robert Plant
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: MasterMetroid | Posted: 12/16/2003 1:42:32 PM
100th post!!!
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Friends are the people who pick u up when u trip
Best friends are the people who laught at u and trip u again
From: kip | Posted: 12/16/2003 5:50:48 PM
here's treb's life grove vid:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/Trebor_Life_Grove_No_Boost.avi
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/16/2003 10:13:23 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/17/2003 5:29:33 AM
Here are some vids for my run...please keep the laughing down to a minimum...well, if it makes you feel better, laugh, but not to my face please :(

Omega Pirate: http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/Hard_pseudo_OP.mp4 (26 megs)

Meta Ridley: http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/Hard_pseudo_ridley.mp4 (30 megs)

Metroid Prime: http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/Hard_pseudo_IC_MP.mp4 (126 megs)

the pseudo is because this is my pre-run...my actual run will probably take many months to finish :/ especially since daily new things are discovered and it is kind of annoying continueing your run when you know the new method would make it that much faster..bah

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"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: kip | Posted: 12/17/2003 5:48:50 AM
"I figured out a freaking easy way to do the frigate crash site jump using one big ghetto jump. But before I post it, I want to know if you know it already. So tell me how you usually like to get up to that white door."

this is the way i know up there:

http://www.metroid2002.com/other_climbing_frigate_crash_site.html

i know that kyuenjin has also known another way for months which i'm pretty sure is different from that one, but i don't know if it's the same as what you mean. i don't know where he has been since his "i'm back" post... maybe he is already plugging away at 21% or something. *pokes kyuenjin*
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/17/2003 4:14:19 PM
OMQ. Njhanke, cal and z0idi is going down:
www.jutler.com/MP/4_17_28.rar 4:17:28 (well, the movie stops at 18:10 >_< )

take a look at these to (yes its me! :) ):

http://www.jutler.com/MP/P1010047.JPG
http://www.jutler.com/MP/P1010044.JPG

I changed name at #metroid.. It always has Ninjai/Ninja. ^_^
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From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 12/17/2003 4:40:51 PM
Can I be the first to say, well done. It was a very nice run indeed (and on PAL too... *grumbles*).

I have uploaded all 3 Quicktime parts of the movie on my site for those withoout winrar or incase his bandwidth get's sucked away...

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/trh_escape_41728_pt1.mov (4.2 Megs)

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/trh_escape_41728_pt2.mov (4.2 Megs)

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/trh_escape_41728_pt3.mov (1.5 Megs)

Andrew "Jealous PAL MP Speed Monkey" Mills
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www.metroid-prime.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 10th December 2002
From: MRC W3RD | Posted: 12/17/2003 10:18:44 PM
Wow, I haven't been here in a month or 2, and now I see that the 22% run was finally done. Don't really feel like reading through everything right now; who finally managed a no-boost geothermal core, and how was it done?
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/17/2003 10:19:48 PM
http://www.metroid2002.com/without_boost_geothermal_core.html
No vid yet though.
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Banks17 | Posted: 12/17/2003 10:24:32 PM
It was done by TreborSelbon.
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"Try varying the timing as you drop Bombs to reach even greater heights." - Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 12/18/2003 1:11:45 AM
Damn right it was. And I'm going to do it again if I can get past this first segment.

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It's not only that we think we're the best group in the world, it's just that in our minds we're so much better than whoever is number two. ~ Robert Plant
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: MRC W3RD | Posted: 12/18/2003 2:06:44 AM
Hmm, don't think I'll be attempting that anytime soon; sounds like you have to jump and morph perfectly to make it.

Nice work Trebor ;)

Now, about the no space jump run. I couldn't imagine going through the game without it. Sorry if it's mentioned somewhere else on the site (I didn't look at anything but the geothermal core stuff), but are you trying to do the no space jump WITH grapple beam? Or have you figured out it's possible to do without either? IIRC, you could get through most of the game without the space jump if you had the grapple beam. Has anyone tried making it through the room before Metroid Prime without space jump? Last I knew, that was the only obstacle preventing a no space jump run, but that it might be possible to go from 'tooth'-to-'tooth' with good double-bomb jumping.

Geez, reading about the 22% run has sparked my interest in MP again. I should work a little harder to get my grades back up so I can play again =/
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/18/2003 2:22:25 AM
What we are working on now is to just skip sj..does not matter what items we use, but just skip sj. Thing is, if we cannot skip space jump using every upgrade in the game..then how could we even approach doing a 21% game eh?

The only place I remember you need grapple is for geo..which is the room we are working on (use grapple to land on the first spinner). It just makes life easier. I have heard you can tbjm off of the spores...but have not tried it and I cannot see it being easy.

So yeah, you need to make it through the game without sj. You need grapple, spider and boost for geo. You need gravity to get out of the mines leaving through the frigate (since you cannot get up Great Tree Hall after the mines, and leaving ppc without sj is very hard (though, is possible).

If you leave frigate after mines, that means you have to do it in reverse. If you want to try it, make sure you activate the first panel for that is the only door coming in reverse you need to activate (it just will not open from the other side).

You will also need to deactivate the forcefield in hydra research in phendrana for after you grab gravity, you need to go there in reverse. You might be able to go up frozen pike, but it is not easy.

So yeah..I am pretty sure Geo is possible without sj...just very hard and cannot make any mistakes (so you have to do perfect jumps for each :/)

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"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: kip | Posted: 12/18/2003 6:53:02 AM
frigate escape 4:23:68

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.23.68.avi

the vcr said .70, while the last frame of the vid says either .69 or .68 (i can't tell because her gun is in the way of the number). this is the first time i can remember that the vid reported the worse time instead of the vcr, so i'll go with the vid's time because it looks more accurate.

/me waits for radix to smash the time.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 12/18/2003 7:29:27 AM
Niiiiice one Kip 8)

I'll update my records page accordingly with all the latest improvements later on 2nite.

BTW: In the M2k2 promo movie I seen a DBJM up to the top level from the biohazard tank in the room that contains the very first pirate log.

Is this used in an actual speed run? Or was it just for showing off with?

And I HATTTTTTTE PAL SJ First... >=( *smashes things*

Ahhh, that's better.

Andrew "Annoyed MP Monkey" Mills
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www.metroid-prime.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 10th December 2002
From: Refreshment | Posted: 12/18/2003 9:35:50 AM
I was going to post this last night but i was to tired.

Anyway you can jump the entire Twin Fires part without deeping in lava and without using that unconfortable dash jump.

You get on the invisible ledge as always, L-lock down and to the wall.

Then more or less like a getto jump (but not necesary) using one L-lock.

Then quickly use R plus down and do a subsequent L-lock, while twisting in you axis to the Left.

When near the ledge continue pressing L plus left on the stick.

It always work once you get it, plus you dont take damage and is quicker than the other methods.
From: Refreshment | Posted: 12/18/2003 9:46:10 AM
Also if it isnt to much to ask could you put me on the Chozo Ice Temple shortcut credits, since it wasnt an obvious one more or less it has some merit. Lets call it comunity service or charity.

If you confirm the Twin Fires trick the credit should be split with another guy since i saw that way of jumping in an older topic. He claimed it did the Twin Fires jump some times (altough not consistently) and said that was using that jump in Geo Core. So its fair thing to do.
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/18/2003 11:04:01 AM
New frigate time:
www.jutler.com/MP/4_17_58.rar

4'17'58..

anyone: feel free to host it!
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From: Refreshment | Posted: 12/18/2003 4:52:21 PM
Hmnnn.... Turns out you can make the Main Quarry jump without Dash Jumping. This is crap because its useless but is a good way to measure how far can Samus jump.

I did a similar L-lock jump and make it to the other side without much problem.

No dice in MQA. Too bad i dont have a proper game for Geo Core to see if you can hit the switch by Space Jumping. SPecially today since i had some free time.
From: kip | Posted: 12/19/2003 2:40:21 AM
frigate escape 4:24:18

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.24.18.avi
From: kip | Posted: 12/19/2003 8:14:39 AM
frigate escape 4:24:70

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.24.70.avi

don't mean to spam but it's something new. something is weird with the audio at the end; i can hear that one sound that is used when you land on the ground from a jump, but it happens while samus is in the air for the last time just before the leaving cutscene. it's even on the vcr when i play it back there, so i guess it's a sound glitch of some kind.

i do remember sess or someone mentioning hearing the space jump/dash sound for no reason in vent shaft before, so it wouldn't be the first time one of us heard something weird.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/19/2003 2:59:09 PM
HIGH SCORES

Any %: Normal
1. Radix37 1:19 (32%)
2. kip 1:23 (33%)
3. z0idi 1:33 (38%) <<<PAL>>>
4. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
5. Andrew Mills 1:49 (52%) <<<PAL>>>

Any %: Hard
1. Radix37 1:45 (33%)
2. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
3. Andrew Mills 2:35 (47%) <<<PAL>>>
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Low %: Normal
1. TreborSelbon 2:20 (22%)
2. TreborSelbon 1:38 (23%)
3. gamecubeman27 2:29 (23%)
4. Andrew Mills 3:39 (23%) <<<PAL>>>
5. JDAdams 7:54 (24%) <<<PAL>>>

Low %: Hard
1. TreborSelbon 3:10 (23%)
2. kip 4:00 (24%)
3. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

100%: Normal
1. Radix37 1:37
2. njahnke 1:50
3. LeCoureur103 2:14
4. Andrew Mills 3:10 <<<PAL>>>
5. Madzombie 3:56 <<<PAL>>>

100%: Hard
1. Radix37 1:58
2. Tzyr 2:48
3. CAL Foolio 2:49
4. <<<PAL>>>
5. <<<PAL>>>

Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
A scientifically calculated handicap of 0:04.67 is added to PAL Frigate Escape Times.
1. kip 4:24.70
2. Radix37 4:22.90
3. TRH 0313 4:22.25 <<<PAL (4:17.58)>>>
4. njahnke 4:20.83
5. CAL Foolio 4:20.65

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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 12/19/2003 6:48:21 PM
Yeah, Kip, I do have another way of getting past the frigate, and its pretty easy. Don't think I ever posted it though - figured it would have already been known.

Anyway, get in front of the frigate door and look left, there's a broken wall with a crevice behind it. Jump as far up in the crevice as possible, then morph and roll up as far as you can. Unmorph, and space jump out of the crevice. Walk towards the general direction of the door. You should come towards a sloping wall - ghetto jump up it and walk towards the door.

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"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."
From: redcmt | Posted: 12/20/2003 1:45:22 AM
Well I havent been here in a long time and I doubt anyone remembers me but did anyone ever get the 101% glitch down? I just tried it and I have it so when I bring up my scan visor, it says missile launcher where the missile should be but I cant get a second one. Anyone ever figure this glitch out? If you did please share.
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Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/20/2003 2:00:03 AM
Metroid 2002 proudly presents ...

TreborSelbon: 23% in 1:38
http://www.metroid2002.com/
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 12/20/2003 10:27:00 AM
What rooms are still left in figuring out no sj? I want to work on them.
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AC2 Website: www.geocities.com/animalxing2
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 12/20/2003 11:15:11 AM
Snoopdigger: The room left in no SJ with everything else is Geothermal Core. The problem is getting to the last raised spinner and that you have to do every jump perfectly. In 21% (no space jump), there's aproximately 9869674 :P. I have a list from kip of rooms left:

phendrana's edge without sj/grapple
geothermal core without sj/spider/grapple/boost
fungal hall a without sj/grapple
fungal hall b without sj/grapple
metroid quarantine a without sj/spider
metroid quarantine b without sj/spider/grapple
great tree hall without sj/spider
artifact of world without sj/spider
phazon processing center without sj/spider
artifact of strength without sj/boost
crossway without sj/boost
reflecting pool without sj/boost
ruined shrine without sj/boost/spider

The good news is that Ore Processing wouldn't be a problem in NTSC 21%. The MQ dash can be done in one jump. There's still 9869673 left though.
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.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: kip | Posted: 12/20/2003 11:49:30 AM
today i did crossway (with vent shaft style bomb jump) and artifact of strength. but that's still 11 rooms left.

i was also messing around with ruined shrine and reflect, sure both of them are possible. in reflect i kept getting close with a dbjm off the stone toad by the entrance, but now i'm starting to doubt a dbjm could make it, after remembering a space jump can't without getting any ghetto effect. i can't see a reason a tbjm wouldn't make it, but it's hard to safely land on a stone toad that many times in a row; i also had problems with the ball hitting the ledge above too soon and messing up my bomb jump.

fungal A has been done before by trebor with one dash, but he was forced to have space jump. it's likely still possible without it though, and maybe fungal B can also be done in one dash.

also played around with trying to get artifact of world. i never made it to the round knob thing with one dash, but it looks possible. from there i guess you'd have to dbjm up to the bomb slot.

none of this matters that much until space jump is skipped by itself.
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/20/2003 3:52:56 PM
bump
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From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/20/2003 4:22:23 PM
"it's even on the vcr when i play it back there, so i guess it's a sound glitch of some kind."

That's just a glitch. It's happened to me with several sounds, like the flying metroid sound, the scanning sound, and the missle expansion whirr. They just keep repeating.
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 12/20/2003 5:57:47 PM
I have been messing around with no sj for a while, but I still have gotten nowhere on Phendrana's Edge. I'm trying to rethink a strategy for getting across the gaps. Perhaps a dash jump from the grapple point.
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AC2 Website: www.geocities.com/animalxing2
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/20/2003 7:08:07 PM
Today I got a score of 1:34. I last saved at the ship before ridley at 1:20, which is 4 minutes ahead of my previous game. However, I can usually beat all 3 of the final bosses in 13 minutes, which means I can probably get 1:33. Which means I will match Z0idi.

...But of corse, I'm not really interested in getting on the scoreboard anymore, because providing proof is too darn aggrivating. However, I might be getting a video capture card for Christmas, which would mean a whole different story.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 12/20/2003 8:32:41 PM
...But of corse, I'm not really interested in getting on the scoreboard anymore, because providing proof is too darn aggrivating. However, I might be getting a video capture card for Christmas, which would mean a whole different story.

Proof we need less stringent entry requirements, especially if the person is as distinguished as CtrlAlt, who has found a couple of SWs iirc.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/20/2003 11:25:45 PM
pressing record is aggravating?
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/20/2003 11:28:48 PM
Oh my. I must make a public apology.

Today, I was trying to re-do the end of my speed run mentioned above, and I made a very embarressing discovery while fighting Ridley.

Ahem. Do you remember that P-bomb Ridley trick I discovered?

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE P-BOMBS.

Now then, here's the proper way to burn his wings off early first time, every time:

BOOST INTO HIS BUTT.

That's it! Can you believe that?!? I can't believe I screwed up so badly. So, well now, um...

*runs away*
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/20/2003 11:51:43 PM
Well no wonder we never got the power bombs to work until we tried to boost into him. I guess that means you were a liar after all :-p
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Refreshment | Posted: 12/21/2003 7:39:42 AM
Are you sure aboyt that Ctrl?

So whats your opinions on this one? Is it a glitch or a VERY obscure secret put there by Retro.

Boosting Ridley's AZZ? Who tha hell will want to do that to beging with? Unless you are one of those....Guies.....
From: kip | Posted: 12/21/2003 7:53:48 AM
maybe it's meant to be a double edged sword. you can save up to 2 minutes with it depending on what kind of speed run, but then you have to live with the fact that you actually did something like that to get a lower time.
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 12/21/2003 9:05:49 AM
So, what you're trying to say is, you have to live with the fact that you cheated? After all the bugs and glitches that have been exploited in speed runs, this seems pretty minor.
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AC2 Website: www.geocities.com/animalxing2
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 12/21/2003 12:42:05 PM
Say, Nate: are you going to put my Main Quarry speed trick on your site? It's a good trick, I promise! In case you missed it, it's about at post #50.

From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/21/2003 2:39:34 PM
No, Playing MP on a small, dark TV where it's so easy to misjudge jumps and places like the fungal halls become almost invisible is hard. Pressing record, though, is rather easy I'd have to admit.

And after *even more* research, You don't need to boost into Ridley from behind, any direction is okay. But if you do it from behind it's easier because you take less damage. And I think that's how it was origionally designed, too. Because if you hit him from behind you take no damage.
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 12/21/2003 3:06:48 PM
Huh? Boosting ridley's ass? Do you guys mean boost it with the morphball? How?
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/21/2003 4:35:58 PM
http://www.metroid2002.com/boss_tricks_ridley_power_bomb.html

do that, just don't set off the power bomb. ;)
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 12/21/2003 5:15:08 PM
Hmm from the looks of it, Ridley did his power stomp or whatever it's called. Doesn't he do that stomp after his wings are gone? Or does my memory fail once again? :D
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/21/2003 5:16:12 PM
I finished my speed run today with a time of 1:32 41%. Good enough! Time to start a new game.

I was looking through your boss tricks on M2k2, and I noticed that you're missing a real obvious one. During the Incinerator Drone battle, you can stand right next to it and you won't take any damage from it's fire. The rotating flamethrowers will go right through you. Might be useful if you don't have the space jump boots first.

Are you absolutely sure that shooting the wasps makes the I.D. expose it's weak spot faster? I've done it both ways, and I've never noticed a difference. Did you time it?

From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/21/2003 6:29:16 PM
You're also missing the Metroid Prime first form Double-hit trick. When Prime loses his face and charges, He'll stay the same color for a second or two when he turns around. I like to hit him with the Ice Spreader two times in a row if he's white.
From: Byakugan | Posted: 12/21/2003 6:38:03 PM
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................................................................. how do you get the plasma beam b4 thardus
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/21/2003 7:33:23 PM
kip, i need to talk to you, please come online sometime today if you weren't planning on it already.
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Banks17 | Posted: 12/21/2003 9:55:43 PM
how do you get the plasma beam b4 thardus

http://www.metroid2002.com/without_grapple_plasma_beam.html
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"Try varying the timing as you drop Bombs to reach even greater heights." - Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: DoomdayX | Posted: 12/21/2003 10:37:27 PM
I found a way to fly!!!

if you charge your beam in the presence of bombus (ones that follow you) and jump on top of them and walk toward them while on top you can use them to fly around a room!!!

only problem is u cant jump off and it takes tons of healhth, so you cant use it on low % runs...
From: Refreshment | Posted: 12/22/2003 9:09:57 AM
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/21/2003 3:29:16 PM | Message Detail
You're also missing the Metroid Prime first form Double-hit trick. When Prime loses his face and charges, He'll stay the same color for a second or two when he turns around. I like to hit him with the Ice Spreader two times in a row if he's white

The trick is very obvious, they know about that as well as many other people.

But good catch with Incinerator Drone one, i didnt use that technique.

Another tip for Gathering Hall is, as soon as you enter the room jump on top of decayed platform that is on the floor, near the boarder of the small pond.

Then ,and without turning, jump back and a little left that gets you in the metalic platform above the entrance door and to the left, the paltform that is a higher than the one with the fungie.

From there jump either to the last platform before the access door or to a piece of hanging ruble directly below the platform that leads to the tunnel door. It saves 1 or 2 seconds.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 12/22/2003 9:44:00 AM
I shocked myself yesterday by activating the spinner in Life Grove. I'm not sure what I did differently. Just a matter of trying it until everything is exactly perfect I guess. I guess now I just have to work at Geo Core some more and a 22% game will be looking pretty good for me.
From: njahnke | Posted: 12/22/2003 10:34:51 AM
congrats. guess i better hurry. ;)
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 12/22/2003 5:16:14 PM
Hmm standing near the incinerator drone eh? Wouldn't it be pretty hard to hit the annoying flies then? Or can you move around in a circle yet stand in the same position so you can shoot those ugly thingies? :)
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 12/22/2003 8:25:35 PM
"The trick is very obvious, they know about that as well as many other people."

Well I still suggest putting it on their site. I personally didn't discover that trick until I started speed running.
From: Refreshment | Posted: 12/23/2003 8:38:04 AM
Some pointers to make the Twin Fires jump more simple.

The R down plus Llock (the second jump) shoots Samus in the direction she was going and cancels the air control with L.

First climb the ledge to see how close is posible to get without falling into lava. If you want to can Lock the view down and set the view almost directly facing the wall.

When in the invisible ledge youll see a part of the left wall that sticks out more than the rest. You want to do a good first L-lock to pass that sticking part while pushing left againt the wall. Youll be pushing left against the wall and soon youll see that the rock wall curves more to the left.

When you clear the rock part that sticks from the rest of the wall while pushing left, hit R + Down rapidly and do another L lock. The target is to land in the left part of the ledge since its closer.

From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 12/23/2003 1:34:12 PM
The topic's looking a little slow these days...

Anyway, some questions.

1. Could someone detail the very quickest way to kill Sheegoth? Missiles, or bombs?

2. I could really use some advice on killing the Chozo Ghosts in the Sunchamber. The fastest I've managed to kill them is about 1:45... what's the quickest way to kill them, and how fast HAS it been done?

3. I'm looking to get in on some Any% speed run action. I came up with a route in about half an hour a few days ago, and I'm curious to see how it compares with the one used by kip or Radix or whoever. Anyone willing to share? (Remember, I don't have the liberty of downloading huge movies.)

I guess that's all my questions for now.

Ah, yes. I don't know if it was ever officially recognized, but the Incinerator Drone DOES have a pattern to where it shows its weak spot. Let's say the room is a circle, and the exit door is at the SOUTH.

Round 1: Weak spot is at west and east.
Round 2: Weak spot is at north and south.
Round 3: Weak spot is at west and east.
Round 4: Weak spot is at north and south.

So that's cool.

Also, you know the missile in Gathering Hall? Above the door? With the Space Jump, you don't need to jump to the pillar, then to the top. From the door, you can jump out to the edge of the platform, then use your second jump to get on top of it while moving backwards. That might sound complicated, but it's really not. It saves a second or two.

That's all I've got for now.
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 12/23/2003 4:05:59 PM
On my 2nd Sheegoth encounter I just bombed her ass away ;) Quite easy though you lose a lot of health (at least I do :P ).

On the Chozo Ghosts, Charge Beam is quite effective though I like the Super Missiles better. 2 Super or so & one ghost is down for good. They may not load faster than the Charge but they are more powerful ;) Dunno if you have Super when you first encounter the Chozos (not in the Flaaghra room...) but it's effective further into the game anyway :D
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/23/2003 5:23:55 PM
Remember, I don't have the liberty of downloading huge movies

Yes you do, use a downloadmanager: www.speedbit.com is a good one. There's tons of stuff you're just not going to pick up unless you watch a complete run.

About your MQ trick: I can do it but Nate hasn't yet so that's why it's not yet on m2k2.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/23/2003 6:50:09 PM
LeCourier, just so you know, you will get little sympathy from some of the SBers about not being able to download for a lot of them, Trebor and kip as example are on 56k and they upload a lot of movies for us to watch and download a lot of our vids to see how things are done.

Anyway, now for your questions:

1. Depends on which difficulty you play on. On normal, it takes 17 missiles, so if you can do Nate's trick (about making Sheegoth use her breath attack right away), and able to shoot off 9 + 8 missiles in two rounds (3 seconds for each) then missiles would be faster.

If you cannot shoot missiles that fast then bombs would be faster. You have to lay the bombs when she is using her breath attack so you get that stun effect. On normal, you need to do it 3 times, on hard you need 4 stuns. I know you can stun her with 1 bomb, but I have not been able to get 3 (or 4) perfect bombs in a row so not sure if 3-4 bombs could kill her.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/sheegoth_hard_12_bombs.mp4

2. ummm..you talking about Hard or low % after flaahgra? Treb on his 23% run (which is posted on www.metroid2002.com) killed them in just over 2 minutes. Now, that might not sound good, but considering he does not have charge that is very impressive.

Radix in his 100% normal run which is also on the net was able to kill them in 1:09 (from the time the sunchamber door openned till the cut scene of the artifact starts).

I cannot give you much details about normal because it is too hard for me, but I can give you some about hard. I choose to get wild not right after flaahgra, but after supers and x-ray. I was able to kill them less then 60 seconds, and I think 50 might be possible. Maybe even a lot less, but the room is so large it is hard to do that.

On hard, 2 supers + 1 semi-charged shot kills each ghost.

It takes 7-8 fully charged shots on hard if you wanted to kill them right after flaahgra. That would take quite a long time to do, which is why I do not get it right after flaahgra. That and believe it or not, but the bomb jump after flaahgra is a lot slower then people believe. Doing the normal scanning method is only 13 seconds slower. That also means if one was able to do Sess' rune gate jump, it would be faster then the bomb jumps.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: kraidiation | Posted: 12/23/2003 9:18:17 PM
I am new to sequence breaking, all I have done so far is SJ first. But I was wondering if anyone had managed to get to Phendrana before getting the Varia suit.
---
Gamecube owner and proud of it!
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/23/2003 11:22:59 PM
No, not yet. For low % game it would not help any for you need all those e-tanks. But, what it would help is it would allow (I believe) up to 86% before fighting a boss, for those who like the no mini boss, no boss in SM, this is what you could aim for. You would have to do a no boss fight though since you need morph ball bombs and wave beam which would require fighting two mini bosses.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: Adun The Untouchable | Posted: 12/24/2003 4:31:44 PM
WHOO PARTY!!! i was so inspired by this whole sequence breaking thing that i beat it without the spiderball
im getting better at it. i can do all the spiffy jumps and even the tbj after many hours of confuzedness but anyway u guys rock
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From: redcmt | Posted: 12/24/2003 4:31:56 PM
I love sequence breaking :). Its amazing how in depth this game goes, I dont think anyone could ever find everything in this game...or atleast it will take awhile. Anyways, I just wanted to say that all you pro's are awesome and keep the info coming...I would try to help with this stuff but I still havent done a 23% file so I really cant help. ::shrugs::

Basically this is bump with a little extra...
XD
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 12/24/2003 6:51:34 PM
Regarding a no SJ game, has anyone even managed to get on the first spinner in Geothermal Core without using SJ in a 22% game? I remember trying to do it back when only 23% was possible, and I don't think I ever found a viable way to get there.

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/24/2003 8:03:47 PM
Someone said you could do a tbjm off of the spore, but I do not think anyone has comfirmed it. No need to really because we have to finish geo core first :/

I was talking to kip and treb..and trying to figure "if" skipping sj is possible, what the lowest % could we get. I think 23% with boost and spider needed (but maybe 24% with grapple)

The rooms that we need boost is only geo (which stinks cause that could drop it down to 22%). The rooms that would be a problem other then geo are vent shaft (solved), crossway (solved), ruined shrime (similar to crossway), life grove (solved), artifact of strength (solved), and reflec pool which has not been solved yet.

The rooms that we need spider for are Great Tree Hall and PPC. It would make mqa and mqb a lot easier, that is for sure.

Grapple might be needed in mqb, fha and fhb.

Only room left I guess is p.edge.

So yeah, 21% would be one impressive game to watch..but doubt it can be done. The main rooms are GTH, PPC and Geo...and it does not look good for any of them :(

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 12/25/2003 2:18:40 AM
Is there a way to get past Phazon Processing Center without space jump? I can't seem to bomb ladder my way across the platforms at the top of the room, is there another way or should I keep trying this?
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/25/2003 4:41:50 AM
GameCube04, I have never done it myself, but as long as you have spider, there is a way of getting past ppc without spider (I guess you do have spider since you said the top platform). Anyway you need an almost perfect ladder dbjm. I wish I could tell you which platform (though I think I am thinking of the same one you are trying to do..I hope, so you do not have to do all this work for nothing).

Only Ama was able to do it, and he did it without sj so it is possible..but just really hard to do.

So just keep at it man and good luck.

You trying a no sj game? Great :) Most of us are wusses and we grabbed gravity suit, unlocked the first door in frigate and left through the frigate in reverse just to avoid ppc. Which means we had to put up with frozen pike...a very hard 3 jump section that I want to forget about ;p that would you get to miss if you did not grab gravity. Actually, it did not take me long now to do it, but when I was doing it the first time, I must have spent about 12 hours on that room or something. You do have to realise before this run, I could hardly do a dbj. So I had to learn how to do a dbjm (ice temple), wall tbj (in Central Dynamo), and a ladder dbjm in geo. I also had to do dbj over the bars for the first time and a lot of other things that I do not want to talk about right now ;p hehe

If you managed to get up ppc without spider/sj (at least the the rafters), please share.

Anyway, good luck with your runs :)

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/25/2003 4:43:26 AM
bah, I even reread my post

but as long as you have spider, there is a way of getting past ppc without spider

should be

but as long as you have spider, there is a way of getting past ppc without sj.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/25/2003 9:40:39 AM
Well, I got 4:18:1x Escape Time. But i didnt record though because the vcr is in a another room and i didnt feel like moving it so i guess that you guys trust me, right?

watch out radix, about 0.20 better and ill take your position.

goddamnit i love this new keyboard. :D
---
.
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/25/2003 9:58:49 AM
OMG, now heres a bummer; 4.19.3x escape time (4.23.97)
I didnt record it.
That VCR is going to my room right now so i can start recording.
---
.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 12/25/2003 11:09:59 AM
Yeah, I started a no sj game a little bit ago. I probably won't finish it, I just wanted something else to do cause I'm sick of Geo Core on my 22% game. It's been fun though cause I've been figuring out how to do the rooms by myself. I just wasn't sure if PPC was possible, but I guess it is. I'll let you know if I manage to get it.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/25/2003 1:38:03 PM
Yeah, mentioned to Nate the other day that he will not like it if no sj is possible, or even worse, 21% is possible since he is stuburn and has to do all vids himself, that he has a LOT of rooms to post. As you notice, even with all items, almost every room has to be done differently. You even have to do a specific route..not like most low % games where you have many choices.

Which is why I hope no sj is possible..I mean sure lowering a % is great and not at all taking away from the hard work everyone, especially treb (since he is the one who keeps finishing them) does..but route wise, the differences between 22-26% is not much (though wild after flaahgra was big). No sj, it is crazy.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: Ir0n BeasT | Posted: 12/25/2003 10:25:46 PM
reflecting pool cant be solved?

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Current Playing:Seiken Densetsu 3,Secret of Mana,Super Metroid,Metroid Prime
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/25/2003 11:22:15 PM
Well, it is probably possible, kip was able to get close by dbjmin' off of the toad..but not able to do it yet..he thinks a tbjm would get it, but not hitting your head or just staying on the toad is hard.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: Ir0n BeasT | Posted: 12/25/2003 11:57:10 PM
You can do it w/o dbjing just use the sj

Jump on the toad(near the ice beam door) on is spike do a L-Lock to the wall then jump to the wall with a ghetto jump

this is something like that

_____~~~~__T_D__
~~~P~~~~~~~~~~~~
___T____________
----------------

_:Floor
~:Wall or Nothing
T:Toad
D:Door
-:Water
P:Pillar
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Current Playing:Seiken Densetsu 3,Secret of Mana,Super Metroid,Metroid Prime
From: mar21182 | Posted: 12/25/2003 11:58:23 PM
Obviously you weren't paying attention. They are talking about solving reflecting pool without space jump.
From: Ir0n BeasT | Posted: 12/26/2003 12:04:29 AM
oh cauz i have cheked the last page
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Current Playing:Seiken Densetsu 3,Secret of Mana,Super Metroid,Metroid Prime
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 12/26/2003 9:12:30 AM
New frigate escape time
http://www.jutler.com/MP/P1010041.JPG 4.19.56 (4.24.23)

www.jutler.com/MP/TRH_PT1.MOV
www.jutler.com/MP/TRH_PT2.MOV
www.jutler.com/MP/TRH_PT3.MOV
---
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From: BoostR | Posted: 12/26/2003 10:51:43 PM
What rooms are left for a no sj run?
A while ago, I started a no sj run (I hope I still have it :/ ) Using AR for the Geothermal Core, I was able to get pretty far...
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/26/2003 11:55:54 PM
BoostR, only room left would be phazon core if you used AR to get plasma.

Some rooms you could try is fha, fhb and mqb without grapple and sj, and mqa without spider/sj...but I can see if you do not want to.

Geo is the only room that has not been solved without SJ. Phazon core has been solved, but we had sj when doing it and we believe sj gives a little height for bomb jumps/morphs.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/27/2003 12:09:33 AM
Sure, I guess I could try...
Which would be the most helpful? I'll start on that one :D

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However, I'm not that up to date after neglecting to play MP (and visit these boards) for so long. So, could someone tell me how close no sj phazon core is to being solved and what the known "leads" are on a no j phazon core?
Possibly even a vid (or instructions, since some of the vids here don't work for me) of the phazon core being solved with sj using bombs...
From: kip | Posted: 12/27/2003 8:27:47 AM
well, phazon core might already be possible, it just hasn't been confirmed yet since we can't actually get there without space jump, so we end up being forced to have it but not use it when testing. i have no vid for this yet so i'll need to explain it.

ok first of all, if you have watched part 15 of radix's 100% run then you saw him turn around and climb up some candy things when he first entered the room, in order to skip the first set of suspended platforms and go straight to the second set.

(with space jump, needless to say,) it's possible to bomb jump your way up the candies too, and actually when doing this you have to start it off by tbjming onto the lowest candy, instead of doing what radix did and space jumping into some invisible ledge before space jumping at the first candy.

so enter the room and walk forward until there is no ceiling right above you anymore, then turn around and try to tbjm to the lowest candy on the wall in front of you. after you land on it, dbjm to each candy above until you land on the ground by the second set of suspended platforms. from here you should be able to bomb ladder your way to each platform until you reach the door leading to prime.

the problem will be that the metroids are always following you. but there is a way to make them both get stuck and just hover endlessly at one spot as long as you don't kill them, i don't know how to do it though. it happened to me once by accident, and i thought that would be the best time to try this idea for getting to the top.

also, i think the only way to test this place (and level 3 mines) with AR would be to give yourself plasma but keeping moonjump and everything else off, because i think moonjump might do something weird to your bomb jumps like space jump seems to.
From: kip | Posted: 12/27/2003 3:37:38 PM
frigate escape 4:25:33

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.25.33.avi
From: redcmt | Posted: 12/28/2003 5:11:18 PM
Cheers to the Wingman....

This chick's rockin' your bro on the dance floor
But she's towing an achor
A junior investment banker
Who's talkin' about herself and not much more
ooooooh!

So buy her a beer,
its the reason you're here:
Mighty Wingman

You're taking one for the team,
so your buddy can live the dream:
Wingmaaaaaaaaaaaan

Hahahahaha, I love that.

BUMP
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: Banks17 | Posted: 12/28/2003 5:28:41 PM
Cheers to the Wingman....

This chick's rockin' your bro on the dance floor
But she's towing an achor
A junior investment banker
Who's talkin' about herself and not much more
ooooooh!

So buy her a beer,
its the reason you're here:
Mighty Wingman

You're taking one for the team,
so your buddy can live the dream:
Wingmaaaaaaaaaaaan

Hahahahaha, I love that.

Calculon: I'm not familiar with the type of thing I'm seeing.
---
"Try varying the timing as you drop Bombs to reach even greater heights." - Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/29/2003 1:07:08 AM
This quote was in a recent topic somebody made about my 1:37:
i would like to see a speed run with no saves one sitting straight beginning to end the holy grail a perfect metroid prime 100 % all scans all enemies all bosses,no saves,if any person can do that and still finish in 2 hours that's perfection, then you can call him god canadianbaccon

Well out of boredom today I decided to try that, so I set out points to do all the scans and then got to it. I figured I could record it since I've got 70gb of free space now, but after 4 gb it stopped because of the file size limit and I hadn't set it up properly to use multiple files... but I kept going just to see what I'd get. I had tons of mistakes, but amazingly I did early wild in one try and got the great tree hall dbj on about the 6th try, so I followed my 1:37 route nearly exactly. I ended up with 1:59 :-)
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: redcmt | Posted: 12/29/2003 2:17:40 AM
::points to above post:: nice...
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: mar21182 | Posted: 12/29/2003 7:16:18 AM
Radix... on that no save run, did you get early newborn too, or did you figure it was too risky to do in a no save game. If you screwed up, it was back to the beginning.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 12/29/2003 11:47:17 AM
I had 1264 energy when I reached the mining tunnel so I didn't go for it, but then in the next room I got an ultra energy from a metroid so I went back. On the 4th rock I messed up by placing the bomb too early so I aborted and then came back after OP. Normally coming back costs 1:45, but with the abort in there it was probably closer to 3 minutes.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/29/2003 5:26:48 PM
I had no problem in the mines without sj until Metroid Quarantine A (don't know the name, but-the one where you scan a computer and the metroids come out, at least). Started again today, and had a problem in life grove-I cannot seem to get the artifact or out of the room. However, I am almost positive it is possible...

I don't think I got the artifact in the Monitor Station yet, that might be something to look into...

So, up until MQA, a few of the Artifacts, and Phazon Core (excluding Geo, of course) I am pretty sure a no sj run is possible.

---
But seriously, in the mines, almost every room is a pain: especially central dynamo. I hate it. Ex-You can't even make it to the crane in the main quarry without doing a ghetto jump and a dbjm. To make it worse, that's the only way up, since the grapple sucks and won't let you up from the ledge (coming from the giant thing with all those spider ball tracks).
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/29/2003 8:52:24 PM
Possible, yes...but just being able to finish it will be very hard. Geo itself only gives you about 15 or so tries if you have max (12) tanks.

An easy way of getting the artifact in lifegrove is if you get on the ledge behind the artifact (where the waterfall is) and jump to the raised plat where the artifact is.

To get out of life grove, dbjm onto the first ledge (the ledge where you would sj normally too); jump to where the small ball course starts. Go across the bridge, do a dbjm. Then jump (Twisting) to the ledge above the waterfall. That should trigger the ghost fight.

hmmm..I wonder if where the artifact is, if you can dbjm onto that and maybe dbjm up to this ledge..but it might be too high.

Anyway, you can do a twisting jump across the waterfall gap, but if you have problems, if you look at the wall, behind the waterfall, there is a rock which you can jump to, then jump easily across.

The next jump is more annoying..you can make it with just a single jump..but it seems random.

The last jump might be done with a long twisting jump, but I found it best to turn towards the artifact (well the raised plat), and use the spinner to scan dash to the last area.

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/29/2003 9:37:54 PM
dbjm onto the first ledge (the ledge where you would sj normally too); jump to where the small ball course starts. Go across the bridge, do a dbjm.

I should have put more effort into that...

dbjm onto the first ledge-never thought of that...
Instead, I jumped (off of a branch behind me) into the point where that ledge and the tree branch meet. Occasionally, I would get stuck (almost like going into certain secret worlds), and be able to jump back, out and forwards, then use the morphball to get on the ledge, and l-lock spring jump to the start of the morph ball track.

Is there a way up the great tree hall (from the bottom-underwater) with no sj?

Is there a way through mqa without sj? The farthest I could get was the moving platform before the start of the spiderball tracks... but a tbjm would probably make it (but its so much more difficult on a moving surface with no wall-I mean, geez)

One last question-how far up geo have people gotten without sj?

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Not too many rooms left...
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/29/2003 10:17:12 PM
Is there a way up the great tree hall (from the bottom-underwater) with no sj?

Not that I know of..but then again, I did not try. I can only assume if you have gravity suit that you can make it back to where the mine door is, but getting up to the upper part (Where the bars are), I do not think is possible :/

Is there a way through mqa without sj? The farthest I could get was the moving platform before the start of the spiderball tracks... but a tbjm would probably make it (but its so much more difficult on a moving surface with no wall-I mean, geez)

Well, we think so..I think someone was able to do it without sj (since it is not too hard to get to). Yes, the moving floating platform is a pain, but a dbjm can make it to the ledge, then what you would do is pb the two walls, go up the raising platform, make a long jump to the beam, then try to do a dash to the door (like you would if you did not have spider).

Of course, you do not need to do this, but that is what we are trying to figure out, if this room is possible without sj and spider. SJ it is possible, just really annoying...but without them both? dunno yet (but think Treb did it..need to ask him though).

One last question-how far up geo have people gotten without sj?

Not far at all :/ The two jumps that are the problem are from spinners 1 > 2 and 3 > 2...

---
"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun"
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 12/30/2003 3:48:31 PM
hmmm..I wonder if where the artifact is, if you can dbjm onto that and maybe dbjm up to this ledge..but it might be too high.

if its too high to dbjm to then tbjm to it.
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What do you call a female dog who hasn't posted any worthwhile times?
Everyone's *****. Congratulations... you can be the backup mascot. - Shinkutat
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/30/2003 3:57:51 PM
^^^Definitely something to try...

Started another new no sj run, and the wave beam is a pain in the butt >:(

I can't seem to watch Radix's vid, so could someone describe what "candies" are, as well as tell me exactly what he does with them?

---
Elite research sucks-you have to dbjm each step almost perfectly. Spent a good hour in there, yes I did...
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/30/2003 5:06:51 PM
http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_tricks_phazon_core.html

That is a vid of how you get up phazon core. It seems random for me, though most people have little problems with the jumps. I just get raped by the metroids that way for some reason.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/31/2003 1:34:49 AM
I can't make it up the ice temple :(
I know it can be done, but does anyone know how?

---
I'm especially having problems getting on top of the "plate thing" the chozo statue is holding (could be considered the third platform, or third lowest platform)
From: MetaRidley2 | Posted: 12/31/2003 3:25:59 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/31/2003 6:52:41 AM
Hey BoostR,

Made some vids for ya..took me forever to get in the ice temple..bah..but getting up it is not so bad.

If you are having problems with the 3bj to get to the ice temple (I cannot get it :/) here is another method you can try:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/shorelines_dash.mp4

You can actually make the dash straight to the platform where the ice temple is, but I have onlt managed to do it once..every other time I land on the floating platform. Make sure you do not do a really good dash or you will go too far (unless of course you are trying to land on the last ledge).

Here is the ice temple vid, from bottom to top:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ice_temple.mp4

There are a couple tricky jumps that you have to do (Well, they are not too bad, but can be tricky if you are not so good at bomb jumps).

The first is to get from the statue to the other side. It takes a ladder dbjm to get there, and it is not too hard..but, if you have problems doing ladders, you can dbjm onto the shoulder of the statue, jump on the head, then jump to the ledge. My vid sucks, but it does show you what is done...so watch it if you have problems with the ladder.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ice_temple_statue_jump.mp4

Another method of doing the last jump is just jump to the left platform, then jump to the end. In the original vid, I dbj onto the sides, then walk over for an easy jump. Either way works.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ice_temple_last_jump.mp4

Hope those helped. If you need any more vids, just ask :)

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 12/31/2003 6:57:34 AM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone have (or can anyone make in .avi format only), a movie of the original SJ boots wo boost method.

The DBJM off of the rock to the SJ-First Ledge.

I was hoping to archive it to show people how it USED to be done (I have the LDBJM off of the Ship turbine movie).

Thanks in advance =)

Oh, and Happy New Year!(I'm early, I know).

Andrew "At work" Mills
---
www.metroid-prime.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 30th December 2003
From: redcmt | Posted: 12/31/2003 12:53:45 PM
Hey mills, I have that video. Remember that email you sent me along time ago that had an attachment that sent to a place where I could dl all your vids? Well, you can still get it from there. If you dont have it....Or are you just asking who has seen that? Cuz yes I have and I have tried way too many times to get that and I cant, I just give up. Dash is so much easier....poor PAL people.
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/31/2003 1:39:10 PM
Thanks, Tzyr- Those will help a lot

I thought it was easy to get to the ice temple o_O

To get on the second platform, you can stand on the right of the chozo statue's "base", and jump directly into the corner where the platform meets the wall. It takes forever, but it will eventually push you up all the way XD
Completely pointless, but at least I found something

More questions (not again!):

Is it possible to make it all the way up frozen pike without sj?

Is it possible to get the artifact in a room attached to monitor stadium without sj? A long time ago, a found a way to the booster, but I couldn't make the jump.

---
Not that I know of..but then again, I did not try. I can only assume if you have gravity suit that you can make it back to where the mine door is, but getting up to the upper part (Where the bars are), I do not think is possible :/

You don't need the gravity suit
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/31/2003 2:11:34 PM
To get on the second platform, you can stand on the right of the chozo statue's "base", and jump directly into the corner where the platform meets the wall. It takes forever, but it will eventually push you up all the way XD
Completely pointless, but at least I found something

Yeah, I found that a long time ago when I started the no sj game. I was not at all good at bomb jumps then (could hardly do a dbj...) so I was trying to find another way of getting up there without using them..so I find that, but it did not do anything since you are stuck there..you cannot even do a single jump to the chozo statue :/

Is it possible to make it all the way up frozen pike without sj?

Not sure..I tried, but kept falling off...I hate dbj on rocks ;p not sure if it is possible though because on top there are some long jumps..but we will see. Going to try it later..but if not, no worries..just means you have to go all the way around :/

Is it possible to get the artifact in a room attached to monitor stadium without sj? A long time ago, a found a way to the booster, but I couldn't make the jump.

Yeah, kip managed to dash from where the bridge that you extend with the boost spinner, to the path that goes around to the door. He even did it without using the spinner so we could see if we could do that room without sj and boost.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/31/2003 3:36:45 PM
o_O
Got the wave beam in about 10 minutes. Tyzr U R TEH UBER AWSUM11!
It seems that the bomb jumping is more effective if you exit morphball mode as you are propelled by the highest bomb. One of my main problems was the instant unmorph. It happened very often, and gave me no horizontal distance whatsoever. When I turned the camera so I was jumping to the left instead of straight ahead, it worked great. So it seems the instant unmorph might be caused by the "camera" getting behind a wall (or through it-whatever), and cutting off the animation because you would not see it if it was allowed to run.

Has anybody gotten through the observatory? If not, would the twin fires tunnel (the one with the spiderball track, I think) dbjm be the best way to get to Thardus?
From: BoostR | Posted: 12/31/2003 8:42:05 PM
Crap I spelled Tzyr's name wrong...

Where should I go next [after the wave beam]? (I want to get further... :)

---
6 hrs 18 min
to go...
From: Tzyr | Posted: 12/31/2003 10:07:18 PM
heh no problem

yeah, that is why in my vid I turned the camera to the side, because like you realised, when you unmorph and the ball is in behind something, you get an instant unmorph..so yeah, you just drop.

If you can do the 3bj to get out of hall of elders, then go grab ice first. If not then you have to go grab spider, then go back and grab ice. So, from shorelines (assumed that is where you have saved?), grab boost if you have not, then go to observatory (so deactivating hydra forcefield, and activating the sequence in observatory. Grab the e-tank from ruined courtyard, so you should have 4 e-tanks now..or you could.

Grab ice, if you 3bj out, the ghosts do not come again, so is great for later. After ice, drop down in cfs and unlock the first door in the crashed frigate. You do not even need to destroy the turrets, just shoot the panel and leave. From there go fight thardus (you need to go tft route).

After thardus, do phendrana south, so frost cave -> p.edge (drop down) -> hunters cave -> gravity chamber to grab gravity suit. You have to now climb frozen pike, and I recommend after you reaching the door that leads to frost cave, to save in frost cave for it is easy to leave there.

Here are some vids to help you out:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/frozen_pike_part_1.mp4

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/frozen_pike_part_2.mp4

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/frost_cave_no_sj.mp4

From frost cave, go up frozen pike to the door that leads to research core? dunno the name, the room you get thermal. Just remember to go to aether first, let the pirate crash the window, then you can go back and grab thermal if you wish. Now, because you activated the sequence in observatory, it is an easy jump to supers, then you can jump to the save.

From there, circle around and go back to reflecting pool. Now for the ever popular dbj over the bars in great tree hall...bah

Anyway, I could describ exactly what you need to do..heh I have wrote too much, but basically you need to deactivate force field in main quarry, grab grapple, pb from CD, then go back up the mines, (grab warrior if you wish), then leave through frigate.

I would recommend you getting x-ray when you can get it. It makes life easier later ;p

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/1/2004 1:31:21 AM
Wow lots of stuff to do...

I have like 6 e-tanks o_O Maybe I did stuff out of order...

Grab ice, if you 3bj out, the ghosts do not come again, so is great for later.

I assume 3bj is a triple bomb jump, but what do you mean by using it to bj out? I climbed to the bomb slots (and even higher, actually :) with only dbjm. Maybe you could explain?

After ice, drop down in cfs and unlock the first door in the crashed frigate. You do not even need to destroy the turrets, just shoot the panel and leave.

What? Is there any reason to? Maybe more of an explanation?

From there go fight thardus (you need to go tft route).

Just figured out what I was doing wrong in tft.=D

But I probably did do stuff in a different order, cause the only thing on there I actually have done is beat Thardus =/

NO MORE VIDS!
YOU HAVE MADE WAY TOO MANY ALREADY
Unless, of course, it is too difficult to explain in words :D

---
1 hr 30 min
to go...
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/1/2004 7:51:29 AM
I assume 3bj is a triple bomb jump, but what do you mean by using it to bj out? I climbed to the bomb slots (and even higher, actually :) with only dbjm. Maybe you could explain?

You know in hall of elders, the room you fight the single ghost? That you also get the e-tank and if we ever manage to get past geo, where you would get artifact of world. Well, after you defeat the ghost, instead of using the bomb slot, if you use a 3 bombs at once (arboretum, but tbj works as well), you can get to that ball tunnel that leads behind the force field. If you do that, the ghosts will not come back later. But, you already fought and left..so ghosts will be there ;p

What? Is there any reason to? Maybe more of an explanation?(about unlocking the first door in frigate)

Just curious if you had a route in mind before starting this? Cause if not, you might actually screw yourself :/ so be careful.

Anyway, the reason you get gravity suit and the reason you unlock the first door of the frigate is that is how we plan on leaving the mines. You can leave the mines via phazon processing centre (ppc), but it is very hard and only one person has done it.

You need gravity to make it through the frigate (there are some rooms maybe possible without gravity and without sj...but they will either be very hard..or you have to find a completely other method). You need to unlock the first door because you are going through the frigate in reverse, and if you go the normal way, remember how you have to unlock those 4 or so doors? Well, door 2 - 4 work without unlocking from the other side, but for some reason, the first door will not work so you would be stuck (cause you cannot get up great tree hall without sj).

About the vids, sure if you do not want any...but frozen pike for instance is not easy..and hard to explain what you need to do.

up to you ;p

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: meeptroid | Posted: 1/1/2004 10:00:57 AM
This sequence breaking thing is still going on? Wow. If anyone remembers me, I was back here around 1.0 and 2.0 of these topics.
---
Argument(Arg-Yoo-Ment) When I am right and somebody else doesn't realize it yet
R.I.P Pong Forever, may your soul linger free, and not be forgotten.
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 1/1/2004 10:07:43 AM
Yeah. Those topics were after the speed run topic was absorbed. They're archived on Metroid2002.
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.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: GoldFire83 | Posted: 1/1/2004 6:58:17 PM
I do not see how it is possible to get Space Jump first.

You see, it appears that there is this thing called "gravity", and whenever I try the dash, this "gravity" causes my Samus to go below the height at which the ledge is, before she makes it to the ledge. Looking at the videos of someone doing the trick, it appears that this "gravity" is not affecting them at all.

That being said, I do not believe you people are actually doing this. Now before you mod me for flamming, let me say one more thing...

I want to be proven wrong. PLEASE prove me wrong! I am asking you Masters to please explain to this pathetic little maggot how it is possible to get Space Jump first. Thank you.
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Fry, what in Sega Genesis happened to you? -Futurama
UN-official Head Chef of the HMSB
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/1/2004 7:19:32 PM
have you read my introduction to sequence breaking?

http://www.metroid2002.com/sequence_breaking_introduction.html

i think as soon as you successfully perform a dash jump (can be on the ground to practice), you will realize why dashes over distances even three or four times longer are indeed possible and readily doable by a master of the dash.

hey meeptroid, long time no (or in my case, never) see.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 1/1/2004 8:57:46 PM
GoldFire83, do you have the PAL or NTSC version? If you live in North America, you have NTSC. If you don't, you most likely have NTSC-J or PAL. I ask this because you can't do the scan dash jump in the PAL/NTSC-J versions, you have to do an alternate method that's on the introduction page Nate linked to.
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.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: Chibi Soma | Posted: 1/1/2004 10:31:15 PM
I really should go try and escape lower Phazon again. x.x; Been about a month now since I got stuck. Was sequence breaking for the veeery first time after having watched like three different people do these spiffy-looking things. I did -fairly- well, considering...then I made the mistake of entering the Mines without the Spiderball.

Eh-heh.

I'm so totally not skilled enough to lead one o' them Metroids around to the right spot so's I can do a dash-jump or somethin'...*sweatdrops* And without the spiderball, I cannae get back up the other way.

I know there's a way outta Processing that involves shenanigans with the scenary, but... not very good at that, either. I tend to be jumpy on small platforms. ><; Very annoying, that stuff.

The urge to play again is hitting me, though, so I may start over and try for 100% scans/100% items... just for the hell of it. I'll certainly never be able to haul ass through the game as fast as the guys in the metroid2002 vids, though. ^^; More than a little above my skill level right now.

--
Yuki
From: redcmt | Posted: 1/1/2004 10:58:51 PM
Goldfire83, how old are you?
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/2/2004 12:05:19 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_tricks_phazon_processing_center.html

leaving via ppc isn't really all that bad. you only have to get up to the next level on the scenery before you can jump off and leave normally.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/2/2004 12:31:37 PM
Whoa Whoa Whoa

I never said I don't want any vids...
I just said don't make them unless you have to ex. you made three on the ice temple-I only needed one.

I tried going in and unlocking the door, but I could not make the last jump to the highest platform in that vertical tunnel. I believe a tbjm could make it, but since getting up to that point was already a slight struggle, I did not want to try to do that.

Anyway, the reason you get gravity suit and the reason you unlock the first door of the frigate is that is how we plan on leaving the mines. You can leave the mines via phazon processing centre (ppc), but it is very hard and only one person has done it.


Who is we?

Who was the person that left ppc? How did he do it?
I couldn't even get to the first floating platform when I tried =/

Are all the artifacts not requiring plasma are obtainable at this point?
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/2/2004 1:41:06 PM
I tried going in and unlocking the door, but I could not make the last jump to the highest platform in that vertical tunnel. I believe a tbjm could make it, but since getting up to that point was already a slight struggle, I did not want to try to do that.

It takes a dbjm to make it, but if you can do a ladder dbjm, it will be a lot easier. It is not simple, but I find it you go on the edge of the last platform, you can make it. I found the second last jump harder for some reason..but yeah, it is not easy getting up there...things like this and ice temple make you appreciate sj that much more eh? But believe me, all the troubles doing this is worth it for ppc is NOT easy. Think about it, if you fall in ppc, you will probably land in phazon, so you have to make it all the way to the top (not too bad...but one bomb jump off the crates is not that easy...)

Who is we?

Anyone who is doing a no sj run, Ama, kip, Xin, Treb, myself, and probably a few others I am missing.

Who was the person that left ppc? How did he do it?
I couldn't even get to the first floating platform when I tried =/

Ama was the one who made it, and he did it without sj. I believe kip made it as well, but he had sj so unfortunately, it means that jump is void since we know (or at least darn sure) that sj effects things.

Are all the artifacts not requiring plasma are obtainable at this point?

- Chozo, ice and pb
- wild, you either have it, or can get it with spider/supers
- Nature
- truth ;p
- strength, boost and a good dash
- life giver just needs boost (to make life easier..but you probably could make it with just bomb jumps
- warrior just needs pb from CD

Akk of these needs plasma:

- world
- sun
- spirit
- newborn
- elder

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/2/2004 3:38:24 PM
things like this and ice temple make you appreciate sj that much more eh?

Don't forget Observatory >_> It was hard (unless I was doing it wrong) and I had to do it twice cause the door locked on me.

life giver just needs boost (to make life easier..but you probably could make it with just bomb jumps

How do you make the spinner work without boost? I could never find out when I did a no boost run. (but I deleted it, cause I figured I would rather do a no sj run, maybe even discover something :)

Finally got super missiles, next is Gravity, PB, Grapple I guess. Maybe artifacts. Is the wavebuster possible?
---
Go to Pike Access, and shoot the power beam at the wave beam door. If it hits at the right angle, it bounces off the ice beam door as well. Maybe it could go back and forth forever if it was lined up right...
But I doubt it. The doors are not lined up, and that practically kills it right there.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/2/2004 4:03:14 PM
Don't forget Observatory >_> It was hard (unless I was doing it wrong) and I had to do it twice cause the door locked on me.

Observatory is not fun..but at least we do not have to go up it for there are other ways around. But activating it is not too bad. Just dbjm onto the ledges.

How do you make the spinner work without boost? I could never find out when I did a no boost run. (but I deleted it, cause I figured I would rather do a no sj run, maybe even discover something :)

heh, you are refering to artifact of Chozo found in Life grove ;p I was talking about life giver, found in the room off tower of light (wavebuster room). You can do life grove without boost, Treb did it, but you do a lil dance and I dunno how it works

Finally got super missiles, next is Gravity, PB, Grapple I guess. Maybe artifacts.

o_O Super missiles before gravity? guess you could do that heh if you activated the sequence, went around to frozen pike, dropped down and grabbed it..hmm..should not be too much a problem.

I grabbed as many artifacts that were along the way...just because if geo is solved, would not have to go back and collect them eh? makes life easier. Would be best as soon as you grab plasma to go kill OP (thus do the south part of the mines).

Is the wavebuster possible?

Probably though have not tried it for very long. Would be a pain, but there are no long jumps really, just have to move quickly while those puffer things come out.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/2/2004 4:34:23 PM
Evenin' all.

Just letting you all know of the new Sequence Breaking trick discovered by Michael Poelzl who e-mailed me a video of the new trick (so full credit goes to this guy).

Basically, he discovered it's now possible to Ghetto Jump off of the left hand wall in the furnace and land on the top of the spidertrack in PAL.

I can confirm this personally and I have already made a movie of it in action. This is actually a VERY quick and easy trick to perform and now makes the TBJ obsolete on a normal speed run (minus, say, the Hall of the Elders).

Enjoy.

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/sj_up_furnace.mpg (940k)

Andrew "PAL MP Speed Monkey" Mills
---
www.metroid-prime.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 2nd January 2004
From: GoldFire83 | Posted: 1/2/2004 4:48:54 PM
Oh, right.
*slaps forehead*
Guess I forgot to mention my version. I picked it up soon after it was released state-side.

Goldfire83, how old are you?
Why do you want to know?
---
Fry, what in Sega Genesis happened to you? -Futurama
UN-official Head Chef of the HMSB
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/2/2004 9:33:01 PM
bump

---
frozen pike is hard =/
From: redcmt | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:09:06 AM
It was just a joke since you were doubting the sequence breakin. Anyways...

Has anyone noticed that you can just walk up the spider track in furnace? Seriously, thats what I do. I have NTSC version btw. But yea, just walk up to it and when you see the spider ball track start to glitch in front of you like your screen all of sudden started refreshing itself then just wait a little longer. Then you will start to move up it slowly and in no time you will be at the top. Anyways, sorry if you guys already knew about this, but its still nice for the new people who didnt know about it/the people who just didnt know about it. Id also like to know if it works in pal, can someone with pal version check on that for me? kay thicks...
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:25:34 AM
Goldfire... if you really want to sequence break, I suggest you not only look at videos, but read tips as well. Sometimes watching a video doesn't give enough details on how to perform how it is done. I'm not sure, but I believe that metroid2002 might have tips. Not positive though.

Also, it'd be great if you come here and ask stuff. People do it all the time, and there are usually people around to help. However, please don't insinuate that we are liars. We work too damn hard on this stuff for that - often the trial and error to come up with a viable solution to a problem spans weeks. Not trying to be rude or anything, man. Sorry if it sounds that way.

And red - that trick has been known for a while, man. Don't remember who came up with it, but it is an awesome trick. :)

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:42:00 AM
Does anybody know exactly how much SJ affects bomb jumping (if at all)? I'm not going to work on a no SJ game most likely, but I am going to go ahead and try to solve a few rooms using 21% requirements. Might be a waste of time, but I might solve a room or two, and if I don't, I might at least find something that can be of help in no SJ.

So, anyway, how much exactly does SJ affect?

ps: I don't believe the trick works in PAL, red. That's why PAL people still have to TBJ up the ladder, or now use that ghetto jump method Andrew is talking about.

---
"The cruel angels thesis bleeds."
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/3/2004 3:22:14 AM
Kyuenjin, it effects everything enough to not even consider using it to be proof a room can get by :/ I would turn on moonjump which only seems to work when you push b, but even that we are not comfortable using it.

The only rooms worth working on for 21% are Great Tree Hall (getting up to get x-ray), PPC, and of course geo.

Those are really the only hard ones.

Rooms like hall of elders (activating the bomb slot), reflect pool, ruined shrine (only getting up the half pipe), p.edge and a couple other rooms have not been solved, but all have ideas for.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: kip | Posted: 1/3/2004 4:04:22 AM
well, here's the most recent list in case you need it:

* phendrana's edge
* geothermal core
* fungal hall a
* fungal hall b
* metroid quarantine a
* metroid quarantine b
* great tree hall
* artifact of world
* phazon processing center
* reflecting pool
* ruined shrine

about "artifact of world", it is listed as such because of it being possible to bomb jump out of hall of the elders, but that does nothing to get you the artifact. if you bomb jump out of the room and come back, the "beam slots" still won't be activated even though the room was refreshed, so you really do need to get in that bomb slot at some point in the game.

about "phazon processing center", the only part that really needs something is a way to get to the square platforms directly above the 2 tracks on the center platform with the ice door (basically, the place you end up when you do the room without spider). it's possible to bomb jump the rest of the way from there.

about "ruined shrine", we figure it's possible with a vent shaft style jump (it worked for crossway). but no one actually made it yet, then again i don't think anyone has seriously tried it.

and as for the fungal halls, they probably wouldn't pose a problem even with 1 dash, it's just that there is no way to prove it because of the situation with no space jump and needing plasma to get there.
From: kip | Posted: 1/3/2004 4:24:54 AM
i think it's fine to have other items when testing 21% if it makes it easier to do so. like if you want to try reflecting pool without having to do the crossway bomb jump first, just use boost to get past it. besides, even if every room was solved under the exact conditions of 21% (down to no energy tanks), a 21% game would have to be done anyway before it could be considered official, the same way it's always been with a new % drop.

but yeah, IMO having space jump when trying anything really should be avoided if you can help it. there's already a lot of stress over stuff like whether phazon core is possible without having space jump, but for those things there was no choice since we can't get there in a no space jump game.
From: Refreshment | Posted: 1/3/2004 7:41:44 AM
You can jump while swinging from a grapple point if you have space jump.

If you press B at the same time the grapple hits the grapple point you can press B again to gain extra high.

Im posting this because i want to know if this is one of the
"problems" that were fixed in the Japan/Europe versions. Itll be interesting for me to know.

Too bad this doesnt work without space jump because it would
have been useful in geo core. But if anyone else want to test this... you never know.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/3/2004 10:36:06 AM
Pleased to announce 4 new rooms have been solved without sj. And to top it off, two of these rooms without grapple as well :D Using AR from my no sj game, I gave myself plasma beam and x-ray. Everything found should work in a real no sj game.

MQA has already been known to be solved without sj. Skipping both sj AND spider will be very difficult, but at least if you have a game up to CD, you can try for yourself for you do not need plasma for mqa.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/mqa_no_sj.mp4

Fungal Hall A has been solved for 21% game! I will get vids for the whole thing later, but it is not easy because you have to control 1 or even 2 hunter metroids, and they do not stay frozen long.

There are 3 tricky jumps. The main one to skip grapple is shown here:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/fungal_hall_a_main_dash_no_sj.mp4

I do not have a vid of fha being completed because of the difficulty of controlling the hunters.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/fungal_hall_a_part_1_no_sj.mp4

dun mind the two test jumps.. ;p but as you can see, I get very close on a normal jump, a dash would easily make it. Because if you look at the last shroom, there is a wall behind it, that means if you dash too far, you will hit the wall but still be on the shroom...

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/fungal_hall_a_part_1_dash_no_sj.mp4

Can be done a lot faster, so if I can freeze the first hunter, then get ontop of the shroom, dash quickly, I should be able to make the final dash. Now, the jump that I have not done might be possible without needing the hunters which is why I posted the first one. Being able to not use hunters would be a lot better.

The reason why I say it is complete, without actually doing it is fungal hall access is possible to get up thus you can reload fha. Because of this, even though difficult, and annoying, you can keep trying to do the first two jumps till you get it.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/fungal_hall_access_part_1_no_sj.mp4
http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/fungal_hall_access_part_2_no_sj.mp4

The reason for the two vids is for some reason I stopped on the last ledge for 30 seconds just doing nothing...I have no idea what is up with that second ladder attempt...lol

Fungal Hall B has also been solved for 21%!

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/fungal_hall_b_no_sj.mp4

Like fha, this one is quite difficult. It is even more difficult in a 21% game because you do not want to land on the missile expansion. Later I will get a vid of fhb done without getting the expansion.

Finally, MQB has been solved for no sj.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/mqb_no_sj.mp4

Still no luck yet for skipping spider and grapple. Grapple is the main one we want to work on for mqb and p.edge will be the only rooms needing grapple (hoepfully soon, none). I can get close to spider. If I can get to how you would skip spider with sj (so if somehow I can land on the horizontal spider track), I have been able to get to the last platform. Grapple seems very difficult though :( I could try doing tbjm in the phazon, but that will not work in a low % game :/

Anyway, going to keep trying mqa and mqb, and get a vid of a complete fha. Things are looking up for no sj :) Just 21% still looks very hard if not impossible :(

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/3/2004 12:42:32 PM
O_O

Now if only we can get past geo...

That the second time its been the main focus...
Remember when they were trying to solve no boost?

---
Nice work, though :)
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/3/2004 1:37:05 PM
so... does sj affect height of bj or horizontal distance as well? if it's vertical height, it might be possible to find a way to compare how much height sj adds to bomb jump and then we might figure out if the last room can be done w/o sj, not geo, the phazon one... I forgot the name >_> and does it add distance to the unmorph at teh end or to the bomb jumps themselves?

yes I'm a newb but don't laugh >_<
I've read the whole topic and almost all of the tricks on metroid2002.com, so at least I'm partly informed :/
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:04:36 PM
thanks :)

just for kicks I decided to kill OP without using boost (which means for a 21-22% run, it is possible to kill OP in one round..even on hard!) I am not good enough to do it with just using plasma, killing troopers without charge, and in the whole fight not loosing 99 life so I will leave that up to treb, but, I was able to kill him in one round without boost and sj :D

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/OP_1_round.mp4

I only showed the fight after I destroyed the 2 ice pirates. Figured no use showing it since I did not kill them without charge.

But yeah, kind of depressing eh? OP is now a joke heh

Oh, you do not have to worry about timing on OP for the first PB. Just start to move as soon as you hear him charging. Lay a pb quick, roll through the phazon (Though you probably do not have to eh?), unmorph and switch to x-ray. For the other 2 pb, just lay them about 1-2 seconds after you hear him disapear and roll quickly to the only other pool he could go to. :)

Too bad the ridley trick will not work for 22% :( poor treb...

anyway, going to go collect the other artifacts (need 7..bah), then I can try out phazon core, the last room needed to be checked for a no sj game. Along the way I will try p.edge without grapple, ppc without spider (only first half, do not have the energy to try second half), and maybe a couple others.

Need to also go back and get mqa without spider, a complete run of fha without sj and grapple, and mqb without grapple.

---

In other news, I was able to do MQB without spider! Only grapple is left :D

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/mqb_no_spider_no_sj.mp4

(sorry about how slow the vid is...I was just being careful not to fall off so I can say mqb is possible without spider and sj)

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:16:23 PM
so... does sj affect height of bj or horizontal distance as well? if it's vertical height, it might be possible to find a way to compare how much height sj adds to bomb jump and then we might figure out if the last room can be done w/o sj, not geo, the phazon one... I forgot the name >_> and does it add distance to the unmorph at teh end or to the bomb jumps themselves?

No worries nitetrain8, actually testing this thoroughly how much sj effects everything is new...it has been known for quite sometime that sj and even phazon suit effected jumps, but no one really knew why or how much.

From what we know, it effects everything. What sj does is it makes samus lighter so she actually floats a little more..and this is for everything. Regular jump, ball jumps, ball jump morphs, dashes..heh

Anyway, I just beat OP so I will go pick up the 7 remaining artifacts and try it for myself. What is good though is yes I do have phazon suit which people htink might effect jumps as well..but, I got everything I could have got before, so if rooms need to be done, they could be just done after OP :)

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/3/2004 2:35:19 PM
I was wondering why bomb jumps where suddenly easier after getting sj ;)

well, the framerate of this game is about 60 fps, right?

maybe you could tape say, *several* dbj or maybe more accurately, tbj (or sbj I don't care >_> ) next to a spiderball track (w/o any clipping glitches) and do some with and without sj and/or phazon suit. then see how many "notches" up the spiderball track you went for either and see generally how much higher up you went. and with the vid, you could time exactly how many frames between the time you reach the peak of your jump to when you hit the ground and see the difference there.

I'd do it myself, but I can't make vids nor can I do quality bomb jumps efficiently >_>
then calculate how much extra horizontal distance that would give. I dunno, you calculated the time added for PAL frigate escape times pretty accurately, maybe you could do something similar here?

last thing- for rapid firing missles, do you have to wait, say, .1 seconds after firing a missle to press A and then fire another missle or can you pretty much button mash? my controller isn't all that great (the b button sucks >_< ) and so I have a bit of trouble figuring it out now...
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/3/2004 3:20:06 PM
Finally got past frozen pike
Thanks for the vid, Tzyr

I have a no sj game saved in the station in Impact Crater-I never got around to checking because I did not know where to jump. I might be able to try it, but don't rely on me :)

When I was attempting, however, I had no idea what kip was talking about when he said "jump up the candies" (I do now). I could dbjm up most of the white "teeth" in the back that you are supposed to use, though.

---
Ugh.
Geo 21%.
I can't even think about it :D
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/3/2004 4:55:34 PM
just for kicks I decided to kill OP without using boost (which means for a 21-22% run, it is possible to kill OP in one round..even on hard!)

rotflmao. what would we do without tzyr.

maybe you could tape say, *several* dbj or maybe more accurately, tbj (or sbj I don't care >_> ) next to a spiderball track (w/o any clipping glitches) and do some with and without sj and/or phazon suit. then see how many "notches" up the spiderball track you went for either and see generally how much higher up you went. and with the vid, you could time exactly how many frames between the time you reach the peak of your jump to when you hit the ground and see the difference there.

main problems i see with that are that it would be extremely difficult to do anything other than a single bomb jump consistently (keep in mind that in metroid prime, velocity is added, not set, so if you were even one "pixel" off in a dbj, your height would vary in a nonlinear fashion, making the test worthless). this error could possibly be eliminated by using multiple tests, as you said, and taking averages, though i have a feeling the "sj effect" is so slight it might be mired inside the mean zone.

also, how would you make sure the ball was in the exact same place (other than pushing into the track), and how would you make sure the camera was pointed the exact same way?
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/3/2004 5:26:18 PM
last thing- for rapid firing missles, do you have to wait, say, .1 seconds after firing a missle to press A and then fire another missle or can you pretty much button mash? my controller isn't all that great (the b button sucks >_< ) and so I have a bit of trouble figuring it out now...

http://www.metroid2002.com/techniques_rapid_fire_missiles.html

Check that link out if you have not already. Basically what I was trying to say in it, you do not have to wait at all, all you need to reset the power beam is hitting A ever so slightly. Which is why I came up with this new method. Cause you can hit Y very fast and just because your thumb is fat enough, you hit A without even trying to and that is all you need to reset the gun.

Remember though you can only have 3 missiles in the air at once (easy to test because if you were to shoot in the air at any speed, you cannot keep shooting), so inorder to take full advantage of rapid fire, you have to be close enough to your target so the first missile hits before you are done your third reset

:)

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/3/2004 6:03:19 PM
only took me 3 hours..but part 1 and 2 of PPC is completed. There are 4 parts to ppc, part 1 and 4 had been solved without sj before, but I finally was able to do part 2.

Part 1 - from the plasma door that leads from OP, to just before the spider track/ball course which will take you to the main platform of ppc.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ppc_part_1_no_sj.mp4

Part 2 - spider track and ball course that takes you to the main platform

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ppc_part_2_no_spider_no_sj.mp4

Part 3 - either up the pillar or the spider spiral that leads to the rafters/platforms

Part 4 - on the rafters, getting to the floating platform that leads to the exit.

Ama has solved this without sj.

I will try to do part 4 later today after I take a break. It will be a while before we could do part 3 without spider.

Anyway, anyone up for trying part 3 is more then welcome. Xin was able to land on the rocks just beside the pillar we go up that we use to skip spider (But when we have sj)..so maybe we can land on that by a dash or something, then land on the pillar..from there maybe dbjm up the pillar would work? who knows...

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/3/2004 7:10:12 PM
ok, so no waiting? I couldn't figure it out because when I tried to do it slow it was always in the middle of some other animation and when I pressed it fast my controller wouldn't register the button press >_> its kind of a "floppy" button, if you know what I mean.
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/3/2004 8:11:59 PM
Oh, great, Tzyr, now you're gonna go off and solve ppc, when you said unlocking the door in the frigate is worth all the trouble (/mocking voice)

XD XD XD
j/k-it wasn't that bad

GREAT work, though.

Maybe I'll try to help in ppc...

I unlocked the door, and it only took me two tries to get up
I was so happy...
Especially after finally making that second dbjm in frozen pike. The first time, I went and saved, wasting 15+ min trying to get back up through frost cave XD
I made the second dbjm a second time, and nailed the next four perfectly, just like the vid, all on my first time up there! (No need to tell anyone all that, but I am really happy right now.)

Went and tried PHAZON CORE for what seemed like, I'd say about an hour. It doesn't look good. I tried everything I could think of. First (and came back to this a bunch of times), I tried some dbjms onto the ledge where you can climb up the candies. VERY difficult to get one down, but it looks like that won't be enough. A tbjm might make it, but it's near impossible the way the ledge is constructed.
Second, I tried going up the white teeth in the back. I discovered only one dbj is needed to make it to the last one. From there, the third lowest regular platform is accessible, but not the fourth. I'm thinking maybe you can use a metroid as a stepping stone, but it wouldn't go there.
Then, I did some lock on dash jumps from the highest platform I could get to into the wall to see if I'd land on a hidden ledge (no go).
Next, I tried standing on the metroids (to ride them to the top XD ), but you fall off pretty fast.
After that, I tried unsuccessfully to get onto that root (the second landing spot of nate's vid of phazon core under speed tricks). Tbjm don't give you enough height.

I'm really starting to doubt it's possible, but it still needs a lot of testing. (Especially by some of the HRSB:highly regarded sequence breakers-kip, ama, trebor, tzyr, nate, all those people...)

---
I really need to get a sig :\
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/4/2004 2:11:15 AM
kip said he did phazon core (he did have sj though) by wall tbjm onto the bottom candy, then you can make a single jump up to the next one, but would have to do a couple bomb jumps from there...hopefully the fission metroids would not be too much a problem..but still going to try

oh and do not worry...I have not even done the hard part yet in ppc which is why as soon as I got part 2, I turned off my tv (with the cube still on, paused) and went to sleep...part 4 is the hard part...part 3 is even harder if you try it without sj and spider..but I will not do that now...

so yeah, you still needed to do frigate in reverse ;p

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/4/2004 11:35:22 AM
kip said he did phazon core (he did have sj though) by wall tbjm onto the bottom candy, then you can make a single jump up to the next one, but would have to do a couple bomb jumps from there...hopefully the fission metroids would not be too much a problem..but still going to try

Would that be the thing Radix jumped on, or those white platforms at the back of the room?
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/4/2004 2:45:16 PM
it's the thing radix jumped on. be sure to press into the wall for additional height (kind of like a ball ghetto).
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:39:17 PM
Hey, you try and bomb jump there! Its not that easy!

XD j/k

I started trying to go up Ore Processing without space jump or spiderball. As usual, I didn't get too far XD
But, I did not try for very long, since someone might have already discovered a way through it (maybe going in from main plaza?)

How many rooms have been solved in a 21% game?
Is there a specific route being taken for 21%?
Which rooms are left to solve in a 21% game?

As you can probably tell, I might like to start a 21% conditions game. Meaning: I'll stay with my missiles and enrgy tanks, thank you very much! :D
Especially if not a lot has been done progress-wise.
I would really like to discover a way through a room or something, at least.

I need my name on metroid2002 for something :D

---
By the way, VERY nice site, njahnke. Tons of vids for everything I could think of.
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/4/2004 3:50:32 PM
As you can probably tell, I might like to start a 21% conditions game. Meaning: I'll stay with my missiles and enrgy tanks, thank you very much! :D

*energy

Not to make an entirely useless post...
How many people are currently doing a 21% or 21% conditions game?
Who is the farthest, and how far are they?

Or, has no one started yet cause everyone's "afraid"
(or thinks) that no sj will not be possible?
---
Wow, I just quoted myself...
I'm getting good at italicizing! :D :D
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/4/2004 4:42:21 PM
How many people are currently doing a 21% or 21% conditions game?

Nobody, because it's pointless. We can't even do geo core without sj when you still have spider and boost, so how anyone can you think it will be done without all of them is beyond me :-p
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: kip | Posted: 1/4/2004 7:22:28 PM
if someone started a 21% game they would just end up stuck at the crossway + reflecting pool part, trying to get the ice beam. crossway was done before, but not reflect (but it's entirely possible IMO).

if you got ice, then it would be time to dbj over the bars and hit the mines for the power bomb. then you need to do vent shaft + phazon processing before you can save again. and then you would need x-ray and plasma to finish the game, but neither is possible to get in 21% so far (because of great tree hall and geo core).

so i guess 21% is playable in theory until you need x-ray and plasma. no one could actually leave the mines until phazon processing is done without spider though; the without space jump bit was done before.

also that tbjm in phazon core is not the wall version. i'll try to get a vid of it but i don't know what it will be worth since i have to have space jump (don't have an AR so it's the only way for me to test phazon core).
From: kip | Posted: 1/4/2004 8:14:24 PM
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/phazon_core_tbjm.wmv

BoostR: the rooms left are in a post a few pages back, but now i think we can also take out the fungal halls. what rooms have been solved and what are left is pretty much the same thing; if it's not in the list it's been solved, pretty much.

and yeah, the route would be very specific because space jump is used/needed for like 90% of existing shortcuts, you don't have many choices of how to get somewhere without it.
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/4/2004 8:15:20 PM
I finally made it up the first jump!

IT ONLY TAKES A DBJ

I don't know how, but I did a dbj on the ground (not phazon) to the right of the candy, and got up there. I didn't even use the wall. Instead of height, the main challenge might be the angle of the unmorph. I even did tbjs of the wall, but still could not get back up.

I was unable to get farther, cause a metroid latched on to me, and yanked me off the thing.

I was using infinite health and infinite p. bombs. I hope those don't have any effect bomb jumping.

(That was all in Phazon Core, if you didn't know)
And I guess I was wrong on the 21% I just figured someone might have started...
---
Soon, I can finally try no sj geo on my non cheating game!

We'll definitely get through geo, now that I'm on it! XD
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/4/2004 8:17:31 PM
HIGH SCORES

Any %: Normal
1. Radix37 1:19 (32%)
2. kip 1:23 (33%)
3. z0idi 1:33 (38%) {{{PAL}}}
4. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
5. Andrew Mills 1:49 (52%) {{{PAL}}}

Any %: Hard
1. Radix37 1:45 (33%)
2. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
3. Andrew Mills 2:35 (47%) {{{PAL}}}
4. {{{PAL}}}
5. {{{PAL}}}

Low %: Normal
1. TreborSelbon 2:20 (22%)
2. TreborSelbon 1:38 (23%)
3. gamecubeman27 2:29 (23%)
4. Andrew Mills 3:39 (23%) {{{PAL}}}
5. JDAdams 7:54 (24%) {{{PAL}}}

Low %: Hard
1. TreborSelbon 3:10 (23%)
2. kip 4:00 (24%)
3. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
4. {{{PAL}}}
5. {{{PAL}}}

100%: Normal
1. Radix37 1:37
2. njahnke 1:50
3. LeCoureur103 2:14
4. Andrew Mills 3:10 {{{PAL}}}
5. Madzombie 3:56 {{{PAL}}}

100%: Hard
1. Radix37 1:58
2. Tzyr 2:48
3. CAL Foolio 2:49
4. {{{PAL}}}
5. {{{PAL}}}

Single-Segment 100%: Normal
1. Radix37 1:59
2. njahnke 2:41 {{{Natural Route}}}

Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
A scientifically calculated handicap of 0:04.67 is added to PAL Frigate Escape Times.
1. kip 4:25.33
2. TRH 0313 4:24.23 {{{PAL 4:19.56}}}
3. Radix37 4:22.90
4. njahnke 4:20.83
5. CAL Foolio 4:20.65

---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: kip | Posted: 1/5/2004 3:08:20 AM
i got ruined shrine with a vent shaft style jump:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/ruined_shrine.avi

so that can go now from the 21% list. if the scan dash is a problem for pal, one would probably have to either use a ghost to dash or bomb jump up the other side of the half pipe and find a way to jump around to the wave door.
From: kip | Posted: 1/5/2004 3:48:55 AM
going a bit further on that pal thing:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/ruined_shrine2.avi

i don't know if that's known already or not, but there's a method for pal gamers assuming the vent shaft style jump works on the other side of the half pipe. i see no reason why it wouldn't, i almost made it up there with just a dbjm.

the biggest ntsc/pal difference concerning 21% still seems to be the waste disposal lock, given that the dash in main quarry is possible even without having space jump. that's the reason why ore processing isn't on the list; people with ntsc get to start at the top floor so it's never a problem. but for pal, some other way around it would need to be found if 21% ever happened.
From: kip | Posted: 1/5/2004 8:15:20 AM
heh. if anyone wants to see a vid of the infamous ppc bomb jump:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/ppc_no_sj.avi

i was just fooling around and decided to try it in my no space jump game. it was strangely easy, i must have really sucked the first time i tried it or something... the camera angle you get on one of the jumps is terrible but that's about it. i'd start to think grav affects bomb jumps now, but i had it when i tried before.

well, whatever. i bet it'll be harder if/when the without spider part is added. after all, you'd have to either do vent shaft again if you missed any jump, or get back to the center platform from the bottom (that actually seems harder than this now).
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/5/2004 12:37:59 PM
(about a 21% game, skipping sj)

Found a new problem for any PAL users interested in a low % game w/o sj. After getting plasma, or after getting phazon suit, leaving through ppc, leaving through magmoor might not be easy. If you cannot do it without losing 99 health, you will have to go through the pirate base in phendrana. This means you will have to ruined courtyard without boost.

If a PALer can find a way up ruined courtyard without boost, then after they pick up wave, PALers must go up ruined courtyard and deactivate the hydra forcefield.

Another room we found that needs working on is the elevator from magmoor workstation, that leads to thardus, or phendrana south. We need to go up it (so skipping spider for the room) or we cannot get the artifact of spirit and elder.

Here is the new laundry list:

p.edge w/o grapple
mqb w/o grapple
reflec w/o boost
ppc w/o spider
gth w/o spider
world w/o spider
elevator (phen) w/o spider
geo w/o grapple/spider/boost

mqa w/o spider <- theoretically solved

PALers will also have to figure out Ore processing and probably ruined courtyard. NTSC users can skip Ore processing because of what kip mentioned, we can do a single dash in main quarry.

Hopefully we can eliminate p.edge and mqb without grapple. It is said that geo is possible without grapple..but no vids or proof of it is available. If those rooms can be skipped without grapple, then that means that 23% is the lowest possible w/o sj (if geo is possible without sj).

THe next step would be to skip boost, cause that is more likely to be skipped then spider...but then again, geo is the one screwing us all.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/5/2004 2:50:35 PM
oooooooooooooooooooooooh baby

BIG NEWS!

DaveB has found a way of doing reflec pool without boost. By doing a tbjm off of the toad. He says that if you land on the middle of the toad and do not touch the direction stick, you will be fine.

As well! zoidi found a way of doing mqa and, part 3 of ppc w/o spider!!! He had sj when he did it, but it will hopefully soon be verified :) This drops our laundry list down by another 2 rooms!

p.edge w/o grapple
mqb w/o grapple
gth w/o spider
world w/o spider
elevator (phen) w/o spider
geo w/o grapple/spider/boost

still have geo...that is the big room...but there is at least hope..look how many rooms are eliminated already? To eliminate boost, we only have geo to do...we do need someone to do geo w/o grapple. That would be good.

mqa w/o spider <- theoretically solved
ppc w/o spider <- zoidi solved part 3, he had sj so needs to be comfirmed

Both these rooms need verified with no sj, but the fact that they have been solved is great.

This also means theoretically, you can do (in ntsc) a 21% game up to geo. It will not be easy...damn would it not..but it is possible. This means if any nuts are out there (looks at treb), you could get a game ready if you feel like procrastinating doing other things hehe

keep it coming guys! :D

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: redcmt | Posted: 1/5/2004 3:54:50 PM
Is there any way you guys could give me a link to where I could dl all the vids you guys have? I rememeber awhile back I asked for it from Mills and he sent me an email with a link to dl the vids. Would you guys be able to do that? If you could just send it to

lgtcount@msn.com

that way I can do all the crap you guys are doing and maybe get back into sequence breaking....maybe.
kay thicks
---
Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: Toozin | Posted: 1/5/2004 6:00:44 PM
You can find nearly every known MP trick documented with video at www.metriod2002.com, with the exception of no SJ stuff, because that isn't complete yet. There are, however, some no SJ vids and other miscelanious stuff at www.metroid2002.com/kip/ and www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ if you wish.
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yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/5/2004 8:13:25 PM
Wow. Even though I haven't posted in a couple of weeks, I've been checking in here every few days. I am just continually amazed by you guys' resourcefulness. Some of the stuff that's been found... just... wow.

So I loaded up Geo Core today and checked it out...

It's probably not worth much coming from me, but under 21% conditions, it just doesn't seem possible AT ALL. The programmers went buck wild with invisible walls... every surface is slippery, so no crazy climbing the walls apart from what is already known. Space jump is just taken for granted so greatly... you don't realize what you're missing until it's gone =(

I remember reading somewhere that the main problems are getting from platforms 1 to 2, and 2 to 3. From 2 to 3, I'm pretty sure that a double bomb ladder morph would do the trick, just like the archaic form of early Space jump from the back of the ship. Hell, the jump from 2 to 3 is just BARELY undoable without space jump as it is!

I'm curious, though: has anyone thought about what to do when you reach the spider ball track (under 21% conditions)?Normally, a ghetto space jump got you up just fine... I tried bombing my way up, but the Morphball doesn't take kindly to slanted surfaces. And after that... how to get to the bomb slot to raise the roof? Trebor's method requires TWO jumps to get in there.

I really hate to say it, but 21% just...
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/5/2004 10:29:56 PM
I'm curious, though: has anyone thought about what to do when you reach the spider ball track (under 21% conditions)?Normally, a ghetto space jump got you up just fine... I tried bombing my way up, but the Morphball doesn't take kindly to slanted surfaces. And after that... how to get to the bomb slot to raise the roof? Trebor's method requires TWO jumps to get in there.

And after that, we get to do the spider ball maze!
I started a 21% game XD
I think I'll be stuck at wild for a loooooooooooooong time...
^The main problem is unmorphing. I made it up a couple times on a different game with two energy tanks, but never got the unmorph right >_<

Beginning to wonder if its worth, seeing as this is more of a test run to make sure no rooms are missed...

p.edge w/o grapple
mqb w/o grapple
gth w/o spider
world w/o spider
elevator (phen) w/o spider
geo w/o grapple/spider/boost


Phendrana's Edge without the Grapple Beam
Metroid Quarantine B without the Grapple Beam
Great Tree Hall without the Spider Ball (to get X-Ray and Artifact)
Artifact of the World (In Hall of the Elders) without the Spider Ball
Transport from Magmoor Caverns to Phendrana Drifts without the Spider Ball
Geothermal Core without the Grapple Beam, the Spider Ball, and the Boost Ball!!!!!!

Am I right about the rooms?

---
Which room is the closest to being solved?
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/6/2004 5:20:37 AM
yes. Those are the right rooms. The elevator is the one to thardus, phendrana south, or to magmoor workstation.

and yes, sounds very little hope for 21%..but then again, so did 22% (geo without boost?), 23% (sun tower without spider), 24% (sun tower without scanning?)

so never know..I mean one of the three major rooms PPC was recently solved..just needs verifying...it may not be big for most people, but considering how hard the room is, it is encouraging to know that you can do it.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/6/2004 6:57:37 PM
I started a 21% game a week ago, but I got stuck at... the Chozo Ice Temple. Which also happens to be the first place for which you "need" the space jump. Lol. But I did find a nifty wall tbjm to get up Phendrana Shorelines, although I'm pretty sure it's already been found.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/6/2004 7:54:54 PM
Alright, sorry to bother all the 21% discussion, but what items are in a 22% game?

12 artifacts
1 Missile Expansion
Morph Ball
Morph Ball Bombs
Power Bombs
Wave Beam
Ice Beam
Plasma Beam
Varia Suit
Space Jump
.... I can't think of that last item.

And why don't more people try a 22% game? What's the trick associated with the 22%?
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One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/6/2004 8:11:28 PM
You forgot x-ray in your list. Also phazon suit/beam but that doesn't add a percent. The reason only trebor has suceeded at a 22% game is geothermal core without boost is very very random and hard.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/6/2004 8:48:38 PM
I believe you forgot something that is even harder Radix, Vent shaft ;p

but yeah, the three main reasons no one doing a 22% game is vent shaft, geo, and life grove.

;p

Yeah LeCoureur, that has been found, a loooooooooooooooooong time ago. Remember it was needed to get to wave before backtracking to get sj in order to get wave. There are actually 2 ways of getting to ice temple. The first being the one you found, the wall tbjm. The second is something I found which is a dash from the upper ledge. It works best coming from boost, but if not, you have to go through ice ruins east.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 1/7/2004 12:02:30 AM
Psh. Geothermal Core is way harder than Vent Shaft. Vent Shaft is all bomb jumping skill. Geo Core is 90% luck, 10% dash jumping skill.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: TRH 0313 | Posted: 1/7/2004 9:53:13 AM
"I started a 21% game XD
I think I'll be stuck at wild for a loooooooooooooong time...
^The main problem is unmorphing. I made it up a couple times on a different game with two energy tanks, but never got the unmorph right >_<"

my main problem with that "jump" was that i was to afraid of pushing the controll-stick right.. try that.. maybe?
---
.
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/7/2004 10:35:27 AM
my main problem with that "jump" was that i was to afraid of pushing the controll-stick right.. try that.. maybe?

Yeah, I know I was supposed to do that...
I just never did it at the right time...

---
Maybe I'll just use moonjump...
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/7/2004 7:32:42 PM
Yesterday after I posted, I went back to my 21% game and tried the Ice Temple again... I made it in about 15 minutes. See, I had been trying bomb ladders, as one might expect. Thing is, though, I had COMPLETELY forgot about unmorphing at the end. When I tried this, it was not a problem at all to get up.

After getting Wave, I figured I had 4 options:

1. Try to get Artifact of Warrior
2. Try to get Artifact of Lifegiver
3. Proceed to the Ice Beam
4. Get to Phendrana from the back and work on the elevator room

Well, I couldn't get Warrior, and the halfpipe bomb jumping is something I haven't bothered to learn, so that applies to both 2 and 3 (Ruined Shrine and Crossway, respectively).

When I tried 4, I was able to bomb through Twin Fires Tunnel and half of Twin Fires before the platforms got too far apart. I tried dash jumping, but died very quickly. Getting through that area would be beneficial (assuming it hasn't already been done), as the only other way to the backside of Phendrana is through Thardus' room, and that is probably impossible to get out of.

------------------------------------------------------------

I have an idea for Geo Core, to get to the bomb slot. Now, I haven't been there in awhile, so I don't know a lot about the height of things in the room... but would it be possible to do the most insane, pixel-perfect wall tbjm EVER from the second spinner? (Note to self: find out if bomb slots can be STOOD on.) I mean, the wall tbjm is pretty much the most height possible from a standing position, aside from an infinite bomb jump like the Sun Tower's (but the structure of the spinners makes one of those impossible). Yeah, I realize that it is probably way too high... but someone should still give it a shot and report back. I have no game files in a proper position to try.

One last thing... at the start of the topic, Nate mentioned a "secret project"... how is that going?
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/7/2004 8:16:33 PM
heh, yeah, that was the version differences and pal frigate escape handicap i unveiled way back on the first page iirc.

also a wall tbjm won't work, because the bomb slot is way too high to be reached even with that.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 1/7/2004 8:38:23 PM
I can almost get to the second spinner with a 3 bombs at once (3bj) thing. I found a new DBJ method that works as good as a 3bj. I'll talk about it later.
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/7/2004 8:44:14 PM
After getting Wave, I figured I had 4 options:

1. Try to get Artifact of Warrior
2. Try to get Artifact of Lifegiver
3. Proceed to the Ice Beam
4. Get to Phendrana from the back and work on the elevator room

Yeah, 1-3 are probably a good idea to do in a 21% game (which was the route that kip and I are working on). Because you have NTSC, and are playing on normal, it is fine going for ice afterwards. See, if you were doing it on PAL, or on hard, you probably have to deactivate the forcefield in hydra. The reason is after plasma/OP, you have to get through magmoor. kip was able to get through every room up to TFT without getting hurt once, but when he arrived at TFT , he had problems getting out. You probably have enough time in normal (ntsc), but hard and PAL do more damage so probably not enough to get out.

Here is how kip got through the other rooms:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/twin_fires_path.avi

The best way to test it would be to grab an e-tank or two, go through magmoor, save at magmoor workstation on another memory card, then work your way back. If you can get through it (till the elevator) without losing 99 life, then it is all good. If not, you might want to consider deactiving the hydra forcefield.

There is one room that is stopping you, ruined courtyard. kip has been able to do it, but not under 21% conditions. It is possible but sounds pretty hard. I cannot give you too much details (for I do not know them), but above the door you entered from, there is an invisible ledge, and from there you should be able to get higher.

As for what you were trying, getting from the elevator, through TFT all the way to workstation. As of right now, there is not a possible way of getting through twin fires tunnel and twin fires without losing 99 health...which is why we do not go that way (though it is possible in reverse).

The first artifact you meant was Artifact of Strength (but I knew what you were refering to), but it is a good idea to get it now because the only way we know how to do it uses one of those puffers (and I think plasma is the trigger for the pirates).

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/strength_without_sj_boost.avi

The ledge that kip gets to by dashing, I have been able to once get there by dbjm from the entrance below, but I have not been able to repeat it..not sure why...I had just learned dbjm then and I got it..now since I can do it pretty well, I cannot get it...*shrugs*

About lifegiver, yeah it will be tough..but seeing how you have to do it in ruined shrine, crossway and vent shaft, you are going to have to get good at it...

At least this one you do not need to do till later, but because ghosts will be there after you grab ice, it will probably be better to get it first (heh, ghost with 99 life, small room, and no charge are not too fun ;p).

------------------------------------------------------------

I have an idea for Geo Core, to get to the bomb slot. Now, I haven't been there in awhile, so I don't know a lot about the height of things in the room... but would it be possible to do the most insane, pixel-perfect wall tbjm EVER from the second spinner?

Yeah, the bomb slot from the spinner is much too high unfortunately. There are two possibilites for geo. Either we find an invisible ledge somewhere that helps us up..or we find a new bomb jump that gets both height and distance. Since tbjm gets same height if not higher then a sj, we just need the distance (So a ladder tbjm?).

Will it ever be done? Who knows...Radix almost guarantees not ;p maybe more of a reason to do it eh? heh But yeah, after we fight out how to get to spinner 3, we have to get to the bomb slot...heh

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/7/2004 11:30:18 PM
Tzyr... just let me say that I love you. You are always so freakin' informative, it's ridiculous. Anyway...

I want Geothermal Core. I want it bad. It is my new Holy Grail, my white whale... in light of this, just let me say:

Holy crap. I think I know how to reach the bomb slot.

Okay, here's the deal... I am about 75% sure that you can get to the platform at the bottom of the single, vertical spider ball track (that you ghetto jump up, normally) by using only dbj's and tbj's and tbjm's, and the whole racket of bomb jumps. When you get to the bottom of that spider track, I'm stumped. You might be able to track walk or bomb up it, or even do a ladder tbjm from the platform to the upper platform... I really don't know. But it can most likely be done somehow.

Alright... from my understanding, Trebor did his space-dash-morph magic from the top platform; that is, the flat disk. Now, I'm not sure if anyone has ever known this, but you can stand on TOP of the spider track. After the vertical section ends, it goes horizontal for just a tiny bit outwards... and guess what? Bombing your way up to this little spot is more than easy.

Up here, you have much greater altitude than Trebor did, so that extra space jump is not necessary. Just dash away, and when you morph, you should still be high enough to fall right in.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Okay... while typing all this, I suddenly realized something... Namely, that when I was checking this out, I planned to use a Plated Parasite for the dash. And as we all know, Plated Parasites inhabit the huge spider ball track, which appears only AFTER you have made it to the bomb slot. It seems unlikely to me that all of you uber-1337 sequence breakers would have missed that little spot on top of the track. Without Plated Parasites, there might not even BE a usable scan point...

Someone PLEASE tell me that there is a scan point. Someone tell me that this is not the reason why Trebor dashed from the disk. Please...
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/7/2004 11:46:20 PM
Trebor used a puddle spore, I think...

Can someone tell me what Kip's vids show?
Just like, maybe a dash from here or whatever?

---
Anyone know what makes the puddle spores go away?
Just so I don't lose them like in my no sj run? >_<

And when I tried that elevator, I almost got on one of the prongs...
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/8/2004 12:29:31 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/geo_in_bomb_slot.avi (divx)

that's the best video we have of it. obviously you would use the puddle spore to dash instead of the spinner kip uses there because the spinner wouldn't be visible in 22% conditions.

btw, that video is one of the most priceless things i've ever seen. kip's stunned reaction when he realizes he's solved the final obstacle blocking 22% is just great.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: GoldFire83 | Posted: 1/8/2004 12:32:57 AM
I'm sorry. I did not intend for that liars bit to sound so serious. I was just being silly, but instead ended up being stupid.
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Fry, what in Sega Genesis happened to you? -Futurama
UN-official Head Chef of the HMSB
From: Chibi Soma | Posted: 1/8/2004 12:35:59 AM
Do we have any fully-recorded movies of 23/22% runs? Be fun watching a 22... even more so a 21% if y'all ever figure out how to get through that one infernal room that's snagged ya. @@;

--
Yuki
Bout to restart and try for a speed run for the first time...
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 1/8/2004 12:40:00 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_runs_prime_low_percent_23P_98_TreborSelbon.html

That's my 23% game in 1:38.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/8/2004 12:44:21 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_runs_prime_low_percent_23P_98_TreborSelbon.html

>_< I can never watch the .avi's!
From: kip | Posted: 1/8/2004 1:36:20 AM
"After the vertical section ends, it goes horizontal for just a tiny bit outwards... and guess what? Bombing your way up to this little spot is more than easy."

i think this is only there (or at least a surface that can be landed on) after the ceiling has been raised.
From: Refreshment | Posted: 1/8/2004 5:54:03 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Refreshment | Posted: 1/8/2004 5:55:50 AM
LeCoureur103, That small ledge only appears once you have activated the bomb switch and the ceiling raises. As well as the plated parasites.

The problem with geo core solution is that is not constant, is more like a bug or glitch. I can get the same high the "dash method" gives you by space jumping, yet i cant get the morph ball to get stock on the switch.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/8/2004 7:22:07 AM
Lecoureur, I tried bomb jumping on top of the spider track like you mentioned, but it just isn't possible without raising the roof first. I've found 3 different invisible ledges on Geo Core also, but they all seem to lead nowhere. One of the invisible ledges I've found would make the dash to the bomb slot a million times easier, but there just isn't anything to lock on to. As far as the regular dash goes, I've gotten the height to make it into the bomb slot many times now, but I haven't gotten stuck on the pillar high enough to be sucked into the bomb slot. Which really sucks, because I've done Life Grove twice on my practice game, so after Geo Core, 22% should be within my grasp.
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 1/8/2004 1:06:52 PM
LeCoureur103: I found that a few weeks ago. kip tried to get on it but he only did it after the slot was activated. Sorry man :/. I haven't tried it under the conditions though, so maybe it is something. It would still be useful in 21% because you have to reload the room to get up all the way, if I remember right.
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/8/2004 5:40:33 PM
Damn... that is very disappointing. I thought I really had it... but I guess that's what I get for exploring on a 100% file =(

Refreshment and GameCube04: I'm intrigued. From where are you dashing? The disk? If so, there is a little raised section through which the spider track runs, so you get more height from there (assuming you're not already doing this).

If you can't dash to the bomb slot, then I really can't foresee any way of doing this. You're already at the top of the room, so there's no way to drop DOWN to it. And even if you got to it somehow, you'd still have to get up to the ice door - a huge task in itself... though I have the formings of a plan in my head.

Damn those programmers! They probably had a meeting one day: "We need to use just ONE room as a failsafe in case in case the gamers decide to try breaking the game open. How about Geothermal Core?" "Sure, doesn't matter - just one room will stop those buggers."

From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/8/2004 6:56:20 PM
Well,

If you manage to get the spinner activated, reaching the ice door (on NTSC) is mostly done already.

Simply go back to the middle spinner, walk around the room on the metal bar (on PAL certain sections slide you off it), and then either DBJM/TBJM up the spider blocks. Then, a DBJLM over to the door?

The other PAL problem is the fact that the platform ONLY extends when you get on top of the final spiderblock.

But I suppose, DBJ to it, roll back and try to DBJLM over to it...

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 8th January 2004
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/8/2004 11:04:58 PM
Lecoureur, I'm trying it the way Trebor did it, dashing from the corner nearest to the bomb slot. I'm getting better and better at that dash, now I just have to get lucky and get that bug/glitch.

Has anybody ever looked into activating the 2nd spinner? There might be a specific way to raise it, much like Life Grove. That would probably be the only solution for 21% conditions, and it sure would make 22% a lot easier.
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/8/2004 11:16:52 PM
Simply go back to the middle spinner, walk around the room on the metal bar (on PAL certain sections slide you off it), and then either DBJM/TBJM up the spider blocks. Then, a DBJLM over to the door?

I'm not too sure the game will let yu unmorph on a block.
I guess maybe dbjl's could work...

There might be a specific way to raise it, much like Life Grove.

I have wanted to know how to do this for a long time. Could Trebor or someone else that knows post it? I could never find out how to do it.

---

From: BoostR | Posted: 1/9/2004 12:06:46 AM
A link would work, too...

---
Bump
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 1/9/2004 12:18:04 AM
Raising the spinners without boost isn't all that difficult. You just can't raise it far enough to stay up.

First, get in the spinner. Now, lay a bomb. Hold up or whatever to stay in the spinner. You are now free to move about in the spinner without moving it. But, it will suck you back in shortly. Right as it's sucking you in, you need to hold a direction. It doesn't really matter which, but the down directions seem to work best. The spinner should go flying up the post. Laying another bomb immediately resets the spinner.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/9/2004 1:04:51 AM
makes me wonder what would happen if you told the game "analog hard down" (neutral -> 6 o'clock in one frame) just as you got sucked in. or maybe you're already doing that and that's as high as the plat is going to go. :/
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/9/2004 9:55:59 AM
Do any of you guys think that the condition of your GameCube can directly affect the way a game works? The reason I ask is this. I've been practicing Geo Core for a few weeks now, and I've never had ANY trouble in the space jump up to the 3rd spinner. But while playing yesterday, I could not make that jump for the life of me. I played for 2 1/2 hours, and did not make it once. It's very strange because I could literally hit it 99% of the time before. You might think I'm crazy, but I am convinced that there is something wrong with my GCN. It's not exactly in perfect condition to begin with. My copy of MP freezes almost every time in the Chozo Ruins, and it usually takes my Cube a few minutes to even read the game disc to load it. I didn't think that this could ever affect a game like this, but I am convinced that somehow my space jump ability has been hindered, or Geo Core loaded wrong, or something weird. Do any of you think that this is at all possible, or am I just making no sense?
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/9/2004 10:27:35 AM
nah, it could be possible...but then again, I have made some very tough jumps/tricks after playing for hours of no luck..and my cube has lots of problems.

One thing I think it is probably is you just lost the feeling...it goes with a lot of tricks, it is remember how it works. Some, like gravity, I can get on the first try..yet most people just cannot get the jump...it is probably I just remember how it feels to make the jump..

of course, there are times when I cannot make the jump...much like sj first...that is probably the easiest trick now, yet you can forget easily how to do it..and there will be times I am like uh, I cannot make this...at least I know I am not alone ;p but yeah, I think you just lose the feeling every once and a while..just hope it is not mid run lol

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/9/2004 10:52:05 AM
circa, what tzyr said there is possible. radix also forgot how to do sj first. you need to carefully think about what you did that made it possible, then try again, applying what you think you might have been doing wrong.

but if that doesn't work, i'll share something that could be it.

last summer i was forced to give up one of my gamecube controllers to my sister (she was having some people over and wanted to play smash). so, not thinking, i gave up my primary (black) controller.

it was late june and i was helping my new friends with 22% geo. it was known up to that jump 2 > 3 you were working on at that point. when i got up there to make the jump, i had a surprise. with the secondary (purple) controller, i was able to l-lock down much further than i had before. it seems the final few degrees of analog sensitivity were gone from my black controller. very disturbing situation because i never would have known about it if my sister hadn't jacked one of my controllers. i just never took my black one back from my sister and used the purple one until i got my wavebird.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 1/9/2004 1:55:52 PM
A note on Geo Core: Yesterday I managed to get on the bottom of spinners 2 & 3. There was like an invisible platform on 3 and I just got stuck on 2. Dunno if this is of any use.
---
.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
Also known as Xin
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 1/9/2004 2:00:55 PM
Pal 46% 2:42 Single Segment Pre-Run
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"Anyway, if LUE has taught me one thing, it's that -4=.999~" - The Bad Guy
From: Chibi Soma | Posted: 1/9/2004 4:24:32 PM
Regarding speed runs and the like...has anyone done a no-energy-tank run? I'm -pretty- sure all the energy tanks are skippable, anyway. o.o; Just running through with 99HP would be fairly tough...I can think of quite a few spots that would be rough going with that little life...c.c;

--
Yuki
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 1/9/2004 4:44:18 PM
*cough*Low-percent Runs*cough*
---
"Anyway, if LUE has taught me one thing, it's that -4=.999~" - The Bad Guy
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/9/2004 4:45:54 PM
chibi soma,

http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_runs_prime_low_percent_23P_98_TreborSelbon.html

you'll need quicktime 6 or better to view those.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/9/2004 5:39:04 PM
Well, was able to solve MQB w/o grapple thus MQB is now solved w/o grapple, spider AND sj. Note this method is a last resort method and I sure hope we can find another way of doing it because this will make the mines VERY hard.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/mqb_no_grapple_no_sj.mp4

This is how you would solve MQB in a 21% game. You use the http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/mqb_no_spider_no_sj.mp4 method to get to the platform. From there you can make a long single twisting jump to the left corner of the phazon pit. Morph in the air and when you smack into the wall lay a bomb quickly. This will prepell you in the air and stop the phazon from hurting you (Will explain more on this in a bit). When you land, continue with a wall tbjm and you should make it out of the pit.

I tested using AR on hard to get to the mines with only varia, and no sj (I had other things, but nothing that would effect how much damage you take, or effect your jumps). From there I was able to get to the first platform (where you would sj/grapple from in mqb) and was able to do a wall tbjm in the phazon on hard and it only took 40-60 hp of damage. If you do not hit the first bomb and just do a wall tbjm while being hurt by phazon the whole time, that health goes to 120 was the min. See, being in phazon hurts you slowly for a small time, enough for you to jump in and jump out, but once a short time passes and if you are in the phazon, your health drops as a really rapid rate...so yes, you will only have one shot at this...so yeah...you have to be close to being insane of doing a 21% game if it is possible to begin with ;p

----------------

on another note, I both found and solved another room for 21%. Transport access in the mines, the room after ppc that leads to the elevator. IF you have grapple, the platform is gone, but you can use two swings to get across the phazon. If you have sj (without grapple), the floating platform can be jumped to and then you can jump out easy without taking damage...but in a 21% game, you cannot make that jump so you have to land in the phazon, do a dbjm onto the floating platform, then jump again, and do a dbjm out to the door...I did it in 74 damage on hard...so yeah, this makes coming from CD (wall tbjm to get out) -> vent shaft w/o boost -> elite pirate + 2 wave troopers -> ppc w/o sj and spider -> transport access ....

sounds fun eh? after all the hard rooms, you get to a room that can kill you if you make a small mistake...bah

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/transport_access_hard.mp4

So yeah...running into a problem right now with the phendrana elevator (That leads to magmoor workstation, thardus or south phendrana)...seems really high...another way to get past this would be to go around and make your way up observatory..of course, that is not possible yet...and going through tft without dying ..heh

so we still have a long way, but here is the current laundry list:

p.edge w/o grapple
gth w/o spider
world w/o spider
elevator (phen) w/o spider
geo w/o grapple/spider/boost

rooms that are solved, but need verifying (proof):

mqa w/o spider <- theoretically solved
reflec w/o boost <- solved by DaveB with a tbj
ppc w/o spider <- needs 1 dbjm on the pillar
mqb w/o grapple <- just needs to be done w/o phazon suit
fha w/o grapple <- has been done, but just needs the second jump to be verified as being possible

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/10/2004 12:47:24 AM
Mad propz as always, Tzyr.

Back to Geocore, people: Here is the rough outline of what to do (most of it is theoretical). I don't really know for whose benefit this is... maybe mine, maybe yours. Meh.

1. Tbjm off a Puddle Spore to reach the first platform. Raise the spinner. (This was actually been done by someone, I don't remember who.)

2. Triple bomb ladder morph to the second platform. Question: Has anyone actually *done* a triple bomb ladder? Naturally, this is just a theory.

3. Double bomb ladder morph to the third platform. I have done this before, it's really quite easy.

4. Triple bomb ladder morph to the fourth platform. Raise the spinner. In theory, that is.

5. Okay... you have to get up to the fifth platform, and I really don't know how to go about doing this. I haven't even managed to bomb up to the notch in the spider track, as it's slanted and the morph ball rolls off. If you could get up there, you'd still have a helluva time bombing up the track, and I don't think a track walk/jump is possible there. Another option would be to do a triple bomb ladder morph from the fourth to fifth platform, completely avoiding the track... of course, this would be an OUT AND BACK bomb jump - most likely impossible. I'm stumped.

6. You're up here... time for the bomb slot. Some people are saying success is possible with a single dash-morph from Trebor's spot, but I'm going to insist that it be tried from the upper ring (that the spider track goes through). The distance shouldn't be a problem, and you've got much more height. =\

7. Leave so the room reloads (and you might want to save, possibly at Magmoor Workstation if it's possible).

8. Bomb your way up to the sixth platform (with the bomb slot). Here is another stumper.
a. I *think* that the pimpingest triple bomb ladder morph in the history of the universe could *possibly* reach the ice door, from the horizontal spider track that runs into the wall. A space jump falls pretty short, though, so this is probably a no-go.
b. You could jump to the metal ring that encircles the room, walk to the first spider block, MORPH, and (wall?) tbj to the block. There is no morph, as once you get higher, you enter the zone of no-unmorph. From the first block, you can easily do various bomb jumps to reach the third block. This is the end of the road - you can't unmorph from here, and there's not really much chance of just ROLLING over to the ice door ledge. BUT: If you could successfully dash-jump from that same horizontal spider track, over to the first block, you might be in better shape. A way might be found to ghetto jump or something up to the third block, from which a dash to the ice door is quite easy. OR, BETTER STILL: Bomb up to the third block as usual, then try to unmorph. Sit there for an hour, two hours, straight, just pressing the unmorph button. With any luck, you'll unmorph, even though you're not s'posed to. Was that a joke? I think I might've been serious when I said that...

In conclusion, Geo core might be possible. It would take some insane bomb jumping skills, as-of-yet unwitnessed. It would probably take some glitches, like the bomb slot or something. But most of all, it would take PATIENCE. You'd pretty much have one shot.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/10/2004 12:54:32 AM
My thoughts on "the laundry list":

p.edge w/o grapple: Haven't been there in a while, but I can foresee a dash to the same tree as always, then some mad bomb jumping up to, and between, the platforms. Probably not exceedingly difficult.

gth w/o spider: Hmm... dash/tbjm up to that same spot that is used for no spider ball, then another tbjm up to the ledge? But I'm guessing it can't be THAT simple, as it isn't solved yet.

world w/o spider: Artifact of World? I can't ever keep my artifacts straight. Where is that?

elevator (phen) w/o spider: I checked this out the other day. I'm sure a tbjm up to the top of one of the poles is possible, but what to do from there is anyone's guess =/ I'd say that Observatory would be a better bet. The platforms can't be extended? Try again, I say!

geo w/o grapple/spider/boost: see previous post
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/10/2004 8:04:35 AM
1. Tbjm off a Puddle Spore to reach the first platform. Raise the spinner. (This was actually been done by someone, I don't remember who.)

Yeah, we heard someone did it (_Tim_? not sure..but there is no proof of this or even really how to do it other then tbjm off the puddle spore). There is something you should not, as of right now, we cannot raise the spinner without boost. Unless you found a way, our problem is, the spinner just will not make it to the top (which is why in a 22% game, we had to make a jump from spinner 2, the one with the bomb slot, to spinner 3, the one with the spider track). If you can find away of raising the spinners, that would be great! We only know how to raise spinner 3.

Of course, in a no sj game, there is no problem, and I am sure what this is about..but I am talking about a 21% game on how to get up there we need to either find a way of raising spinner 1 and 2, or get from 2 > 3 and 3 > 2.

2. Triple bomb ladder morph to the second platform. Question: Has anyone actually *done* a triple bomb ladder? Naturally, this is just a theory.

Yes, kip and I have done ladder tbjm, but one they are very hard to time, and two for some reason most of the time we actually land one, we get a bad morph (as in instead of getting extra height, we just drop). One thing we have noticed about a ladder tbjm is that you lose the horizontal speed that you gain of a ladder dbjm so not sure one will work here for long distances. What I mean is when you do a ladder dbjm, you roll back then forward onto the bomb so you are moving forward when you hit bomb 2 and 3. Well you cannot really do that with this so we found another way that might work too. We call it a solar frenzy (seeing how it was solr's idea).

How the solr frenzy works is just like a 3bj. You waste a bomb, wait long enough that if you layed a bomb, it would replace before that bomb goes off. So after you lay the second bomb, roll back, then forward onto the bomb (like you would a ladder dbjm). So, after you hit the bomb, place the 3 bombs while moving like you would a ladder. The goal is to have that extra ball to give you that extra speed and hopefully extra height and distance. Again, getting a good morph seems hard, but obviously it can be done (or we could not do a 3bjm like I did solving fhb).

We are sure that the solr frenzy is enough to do jumps 1 > 2 and 3 > 2 which are the problems.

3. Double bomb ladder morph to the third platform. I have done this before, it's really quite easy.

Yeah, it is nice that it is a simple one...of course, it is always the simple ones you screw up after you do the almost impossible ones eh? :/

4. Triple bomb ladder morph to the fourth platform. Raise the spinner. In theory, that is.

Actually, a good ladder dbjm makes this. I have done it (But of course, I had sj). Thing is, I have not been able to do it with spinner 3 raised. A ladder tbjm, or a solr frenzy would work, but that just means if you screw up the hardest jump, you only get one try at it :(

5. Okay... you have to get up to the fifth platform, and I really don't know how to go about doing this....

zoidi was able to do this. He dbjm onto the slanted part you were talking about, and then did a wall tbj up the pillar...so it is possible, but staying on the slanted ledge is not easy.

6. You're up here... time for the bomb slot. Some people are saying success is possible with a single dash-morph from Trebor's spot, but I'm going to insist that it be tried from the upper ring (that the spider track goes through). The distance shouldn't be a problem, and you've got much more height. =\

Well, the main problem about doing a single dash is there are no dash points in a good position to make the dash :/ But yeah, we definitely have to find something to make it there we have no luck.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/10/2004 8:05:10 AM
(cont)

7. Leave so the room reloads (and you might want to save, possibly at Magmoor Workstation if it's possible).

I have been thinking at this...see, if you can get to the bomb slot (and we cannot raise spinner 1 and 2) without sj and boost, then I think it would be better to just make it back to spinner 3 and just walk around the rail. But, if we did reset the room, we could still do that and really only have one tough jump to do (unless 1 > 3 becomes too hard..bah..I hate geo)

8. (getting to the ice door)

Probably what is possible is get to just below the first block and do a wall tbjm onto the block. Like you were saying, you cannot unmorph on spider tracks...which is weird, because in doing sess' sun tower jump, or jumping in mqb you can..so why not here?

Anyway, if you can get to the third block, maybe do a ladder dbjm...of course, seeing how close the roof is there...yeah, it will be fun ;p

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/10/2004 8:24:17 AM
p.edge w/o grapple: Haven't been there in a while, but I can foresee a dash to the same tree as always, then some mad bomb jumping up to, and between, the platforms. Probably not exceedingly difficult.

Yeah, kip has been working on the room..says there are som decent dash points, but just has not been able to make it. Maybe a wall tbjm to land on the tree? Would save getting on the bridge.

As for getting to the top..if you can get to the ledge after the tree, I think a good wall tbjm can make it to the plasma door..will need to make sure. Once I figure out ppc in my ARed plasma no sj run, I will try it.

gth w/o spider: Hmm... dash/tbjm up to that same spot that is used for no spider ball, then another tbjm up to the ledge? But I'm guessing it can't be THAT simple, as it isn't solved yet.

kip was able to get to dash to the horizontal part of the spider track. If you could dbjm onto the part where we normally sj to. Then we are that much closer. From there, with sj, he was able to get stuck and hover up to the ledge. If it is possible of getting stuck and hover without sj, we might have it solved. It will not look good, but at least it is a chance of solving the room.

world w/o spider: Artifact of World? I can't ever keep my artifacts straight. Where is that?

World is in hall of elders. The problem is not getting through hall of elders, but getting to the bomb slot. See if you wall tbj (or 3bj) to the ledge tunnel that leads behind the forcefield, you can leave the room...but getting to the bomb slot without spider is tough. We think it is possible..maybe a dash onto the nob, and then a dbjm to the slot..but no one has done it yet.

elevator (phen) w/o spider: I checked this out the other day. I'm sure a tbjm up to the top of one of the poles is possible, but what to do from there is anyone's guess =/ I'd say that Observatory would be a better bet. The platforms can't be extended? Try again, I say!

kip (heh he does a lot eh? yeah, which is why we lub him hehe) was able to get onto the poll, and even managed to do a dbjm off ot it. But it was not even close to making it sadly. Which means we need to find another way up the room :/ Doing a tbjm off of the pole would be insane...and I doubt it would even work.

If we figure out observatory, we need to find a way through tft without...well dying. After plasma and after OP we would need to get through tft...the idea before was to go through phendrana, that would solve that..but getting up the elevator is what is stopping us :(

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/10/2004 11:04:10 AM
With regards to Ice Door in Geo:

You mentioned that you can't unmorph on the spider blocks. This is just theory, but if you do a vertical DBJ on the 2nd block and try and unmorph at the top of the jump, would that work?

And then try that Solr Frenzy from the 2nd block to the platform...

(You can tell I'm not much of a low % man...) ;)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 8th January 2004
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/10/2004 11:36:32 AM
cool Andrew. We just need to know it is possible, the other part is..if you can get it (without using jumps because you will probably have sj) with bomb jumps then we can say geo needs to be solved without grapple/boost/sj then..

Not sure about that. You know the horizontal spider track in mqb? If I do a dbjm off of that it will not let me unmorph. So not sure what the deal is for that...you can unmorph using sess' jump in suntower, and in mqb at the top if you lay a bomb and jump above the track..but when on the track no..

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 1/10/2004 12:09:41 PM
Hard Any% 2:40 49%
---
"Anyway, if LUE has taught me one thing, it's that -4=.999~" - The Bad Guy
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/10/2004 4:09:37 PM
Good news: Artifact of World (Hall of Elders) is as good as solved. This morning I was able to do a dash jump to the little nob. Where you stand is near at the spot where you would tbj up to the tunnel to avoid the bomb slot in the first place - except you need to stand on top of this weird little brown thing that hangs off of the ledge to get a tiny bit of extra height. Use one of the solar panel-thingies across the room for your dash. Problem is, the dash is a total shot in the dark. I only made it once in about an hour.

As for the peg, I'm 99% sure you could bomb up to the slot. When you land on the peg, you must morph; this sucks. The peg is at a downward angle, and cut in a pretty inconvenient shape, polygon-wise. A dbj can't make it, but a wall dbj comes pretty freakin' close. A dbjm, I'm pretty sure, won't make it: when you morph, Samus shoots up and hits her head on the ceiling, thereby shooting back down. I guess the only real option is a tbj or wall tbj up to the slot. But don't take my word for it - by all means, someone should try some variant of a dbj, as landing back on the peg once is hard enough, and a variant of a tbj would land twice... maybe impossible.

In any case, I suggest moving Hall of Elders to the list of rooms that need confirmation or whatever. It's as good as done; but the odds/probability/chances of successfully dashing to the peg and then bombing up to the slot in succession are slow low it's ridiculous.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/10/2004 5:39:51 PM
nice that you made it :)

Because you were able to get to the knob without sj (using what kip was able to get close to, so good that it worked..maybe there is another way, for PALers, but at least it is solved for us), I tried getting to the ledge with my 100% game.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/world_dbj.mp4

I was able to get a dbj to make it...but as you can see, I had little room to spare..but, I did not do a perfect dbj, so I am hoping that is enough to say that this jump is possible without sj and phazon (two items that have been known to give a little extra help).

It still needs to be verified under 21% conditions, but I think it is safe to say that world is solved. Nice work :)

The new laundry list:

p.edge w/o grapple
gth w/o spider
*elevator (phen) w/o spider
geo w/o grapple/spider/boost
PAL: Ore Processing w/o spider

mqb w/o grapple <- just needs to be done w/o phazon
reflec w/o boost <- solved by DaveB with a tbj
mqa w/o spider <- solved by zoidi
world w/o spider <- just needs to be done under 21% conditions
ppc w/o spider <- zoidi solved part 3, he had sj so needs to be comfirmed w/o

*note: or observatory and tft without damage can be solved

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: pilantra | Posted: 1/10/2004 6:55:41 PM
if you don't know or if you care, i did a challenge for anybody who was willing to do a complete game All scans, no saves beginning to end 100% and one more time God Radix came through with honors, you can finally stop playing this game there is nothing you can't do... radix37 METROID PRIME GOD ... 1:59 NOBODY CANT TOUCH YOU, YOU ARE REALLY THE KING.....
CONGRATULATIONS FOR A JOB WELL DONE...........i see you in metroid prime 2 coming soon heheheheheheh...............
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/10/2004 8:17:45 PM
So I was messing around in Geo core today. With all this talk of unmorphing and such from the spider blocks, I decided it would be good to get in on some of the action.

Convinced there's no way in hell to reach the ice door from the top block, I drop to the middle one and decide to try a ladder or something out towards the ice door... but the camera is fixed in a stationary position, such that I must bomb OUTWARDS, towards the television screen. Then an idea hits me. It is a brilliant idea, destined to catapult me towards sequence-breaking stardom!

From the second block, I will bomb OUTWARDS, unmorph, and land back on the block. This will put me in a standing position, able to dash over to the ice door. I figure that the "no unmorph zone" can't extend very far outwards from the wall.

After a couple of tries, success! I double bomb ladder outwards, morph, and guide Samus back to the block. Victory is certain... but then the unthinkable happened: as soon as she landed, Samus morphed back into a ball. It isn't just a glitch, as I successfully replicate it a few more times. It is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. And it's not just confined to the "no unmorph zone", either: one time, I missed the block on my way back down, and landed on the metal ring that goes around the room. She hit the ledge and morphed again. Dammit.

But it's not a total loss. The general idea was to tbjm up to the first block, right? Unluckily for you guys, the first block is in that nastiest of zones... and you're not just doing a tbj up to it. With this knowledge, I can now safely say that one could get under the block, do a ladder tbj outwards, and morph to get up on the block. But then you're stuck in ball form... but at least it's a start.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/10/2004 8:25:19 PM
Because you were able to get to the knob without sj...

Err... I actually had space jump, but I only used one of my jumps. It shouldn't make a difference though, I don't think... Dash jumps give you so little height anyway, I doubt space jump (or even phazon suit, as you say) would give you a boost... Let's hope, anyway.
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/10/2004 9:48:01 PM
Err... I actually had space jump, but I only used one of my jumps. It shouldn't make a difference though, I don't think

I'm pretty sure it does...
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:(
From: kip | Posted: 1/11/2004 3:45:42 AM
i don't know if this is anything, but:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/transport_weirdness.avi

in this vid you can see i land at an invisible ledge near the end of the track, which can be reached with a dbjm from the pole. you don't get that great of a view because i jump almost as soon as i land on it for some reason, but i'm hoping something useful can be done from here. will try to get another vid with a better view.

i tried to single jump to the end from this place, but fell just short the few times that i tried. and this is in a no space jump game, i bet it would be easy to get up with space jump. i'll try more stuff but i rarely land on that ledge.

also tried tbjm from the pole, it's actually worse than dbjm for some reason (but this is just my experience). a bomb ladder would probably easily do it but i'm not good enough to stay on the pole after placing bomb 3 yet.
From: kip | Posted: 1/11/2004 4:49:26 AM
here's that better vid i was talking about:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/transport_weirdness2.avi

maybe i just didn't single jump good enough?
From: kip | Posted: 1/11/2004 7:29:56 AM
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/transport_without_sj.avi

don't know what was so different about that single jump, but it worked. just glad that you don't need a bomb ladder from the pole...
From: Kharay | Posted: 1/11/2004 7:39:08 AM
Hi guys,

I've been playing around with sequence breaking (PAL version), starting over after approx. 60 minutes (for the sake of practice). So far I've gotten to the point of Gravity Suit before Thardus.

Anyhow, I had a quick question... I start over a lot (so far I've killed Parasite Queen and Flaghraa 20 times or something) and each time I run into a problem.

Space Jump First is quite possible in PAL (as you guys found out). I use the method once found out by one of you guys (locking on to the seedling and moving back to the ship) and there is 1 problem I am having. My success rate is about 5%. Luckily the game asks you to save the moment you hit Tallon.

Of the about 100 - 150 times I've went to the seedling and back to the ship, I made the space jump boots about 6 times or something. Any player out there have a better successrate with the seedling way and care to tell me their exact position/path?

The problem (in part) is that to a certain extent, it's random, since the seedling is moving about a bit. Back and forth to make matters worse. One moment you can reach a slight inch further than the other moment, because the seedling is closer to the ship (marginally).

Anyhow, I been reading/viewing all your efforts (currently with the 21% attempt)... and I bow to you guys. Respect!
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/11/2004 8:53:49 AM
Kharay, most of us do not have the PAL version, the only thing I can help you on is this vid:

http://www.metroid2002.com/without_boost_space_jump.html

For PAL, it is the second vid.

Good luck!

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 1/11/2004 10:09:02 AM
I'm not exactly sure why it works sometimes, and sometimes it just won't. I'm sure it's NOT the seedlings position, at leats I couldn't tell a difference. I guess my problem is that I won't let go off L immediatly after I start the jump =/
---
"Anyway, if LUE has taught me one thing, it's that -4=.999~" - The Bad Guy
From: Kharay | Posted: 1/11/2004 10:38:14 AM
Kharay, most of us do not have the PAL version, the only thing I can help you on is this vid:

http://www.metroid2002.com/without_boost_space_jump.html

For PAL, it is the second vid.

Good luck!

I've watched every vid on Metroid2k2.com far too many times. And all I can say about the PAL SJ first one is: I know the theory. But, the thing is, it's a pixel perfect random thing. You American players are lucky bastards, the NTSC version is far better controlable.

:-)

Any PAL player have a take on the position of where to stand on the ship? The route I take from the seedling is backing up all the way till I reach the left side of the side. Move to the right and the back till I see the backend middle thruster then move right. Jump up the ship, move back a pixel or 3 (*grin*) and dash jump. Usually it's roughly right, in my case. But, it's random. Very random. :-( Sometimes I make it like that, most times I don't.

I'm not exactly sure why it works sometimes, and sometimes it just won't. I'm sure it's NOT the seedlings position, at leats I couldn't tell a difference. I guess my problem is that I won't let go off L immediatly after I start the jump =/

Well, I've got the dash jump mastered now. My only problem is the exact position where to do it from. The jump itself isn't the problem.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/11/2004 11:31:59 AM
great job kip

:-)
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/11/2004 3:45:38 PM
Excellent, kip! It seems as though you do a space jump at the very end, though. Maybe I'm just stupid and that is some trick or something. I'm just wondering! =)
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: Kharay | Posted: 1/11/2004 4:14:54 PM
Yes! I managed it now on the first attempt! I watched the vid of PAL SJ first over and over again, memorizing the exact path. I followed it to the letter... and it seems my attempts at finding a path were somewhat misguided. That path in that vid is PERFECT. It is far better controlable than moving under the ship and what not.

Thanks, whoever shot the vid/found that path! It works!
From: kip | Posted: 1/11/2004 4:25:08 PM
nah, i was just mashing B to be sure i would get up if i landed somewhere higher (hence it never makes the double jump/dash sound, only a landing sound then another jump).

pausing the game is also meant to show i don't have space jump (the ?????? above grapple beam), but that's something that can be easily edited so i don't know what it's worth.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/11/2004 5:11:03 PM
kip, tell me if I have this right:

You're in that Phendrana elevator room. You get on top of one of the poles, then jump to an invisible ledge on the Spider Ball track.

For some reason, I just can't watch movies on this stupid computer =(
From: kip | Posted: 1/11/2004 5:27:30 PM
dbjm to the pole right to the southeast (when you come up from magmoor). dbjm to the track as far as you can go, land on an invisible ledge near the end of it, then single jump to the top.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/11/2004 5:38:04 PM
You're in that Phendrana elevator room. You get on top of one of the poles, then jump to an invisible ledge on the Spider Ball track.

LeCoureur, yeah that's basically the gist of it. If you look at the spider track (standing on the elevator holo), it will be the pole on the left. From there, do a dbjm (just a normal dbj works, so it is easier for you can just do it straight up and down), and you will land just beside the spider track on an invisible ledge.

---------------

So, a bunch of us worked on p.edge...no luck :/ we can get close..but we still cannot get to the tree, or from the tree to the snow ledge yet. It seems to be the only way if we did that. From there, it is possible to get to the second floating plat using bomb jumps...I can almost get to the plasma door (like very close)..but have not landed the jump yet. Hopefully it can be done, then all we need to do is get up on the tree somehow.

Which still leaves geo and gth. Well, hopefully someone well find something...scary how little rooms are left, yet at the same time, we knew of these rooms before.

We do need to test phazon core without sj...

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: ChaffReaper | Posted: 1/11/2004 7:18:15 PM
I think this was discussed before, but I couldn't find any videos up on metroid2002.com. I'm trying to go through the crashed frigate backwards without the gravity suit. I can get past the hydro access tunnel OK thanks to the vid, but now I'm stuck in Connection Elevator to Deck Beta. I can get all the way up to the second Aqua Sac, but then I'm stuck. Has anyone done this before?

This sequence breaking is great stuff. I'm enjoying MP all over again -- not only is it neat when you first do a trick, it's also really cool when you realize you're getting consistent in pulling off the tricks...
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/11/2004 7:42:55 PM
Wow, so all you guys have left is getting the X-Ray Visor and Artifact in gth, and (obviously) Geo Core. Keep going guys!

kip: See? I told you I was stupid. =)
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/11/2004 10:03:42 PM
Excellent work, kip! When I was investigating the elevator room, I figured there was no way in hell that any sort of bomb jump from a pole would get you up to that hole, but I never counted on an invisible ledge!

----------------------------------

I found a new speed trick.

*coughcoughnategetoverherecoughcough*

Yes, well... I was examining Phendrana's Edge for a possible no-sj solution, and all I found was a crummy trick that INVOLVES the space jump.

So you want to get to the top for the Artifact and power bomb expansion. You enter the room through the wave door (above water). The tree that you use for the no-grapple method is to your left. There's also a sheet of gray rock along the wall to your left, and it runs into the tree.

What you need to do is jump/space jump to the little nook where the sheet of gray rock meets the tree. There's a perfectly stand-able spot there. Next, you space jump out from the nook, up, and around the tree. You need to land on the spot where the upwards-slanted tree branch meets the trunk. It's a pretty high jump to make, but completely possible.

ESTIMATED TIME SAVED: I dunno =P ... 5 seconds? It just saves you the trouble of getting up to the bridge.

-------------------------

In terms of no sj, though... couldn't do anything in PE. The little nook I mentioned above is not conducive to bomb jumping, so that's not much of an option. Doing bomb jumps off of the tree is ridiculously difficult, so much that I haven't balanced long enough to do a single bomb jump. =(

If you get up to that ledge, I have been able to bomb to the first floating platform, then a double ladder directly to the second floating platform. But like Tzyr, I just can't reach the plasma door. I've been pretty darn close with a regular ladder, so a solar frenzy might do the trick.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/11/2004 11:51:33 PM
dumb dash jump question- do I release the b button or l-button first?
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 1/12/2004 12:08:08 AM
Very nice job, kip.

For some reason, I figured it would use an invisible ledge somewhere in the room, but I didn't know to what end.

Now, I'm inspired. I'll look at something tomorrow. I feel like I need to solve something without the Space Jump instead of you guys hogging all the credit.

---
I have never paid for ass. Why start now? - Voodoo Bastard, when asked if he would pay for the username.
http://www.metroid2002.com
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/12/2004 12:41:50 AM
B button, but just barely.

It is tapped, the dash begins, and after the dash begins, you should let go of L.

I do them every chance I get :)
It really can speed up Flaahgra's fight...

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Almost to a 21%...
But it would be so hard...
:(
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 1/12/2004 1:03:57 AM
I've spend an hour last night on that tree, and I'm sure I have found a way to do it, but it's way too hard =/

Roll into the small hole behind the branch. Lay bomb one, and land on the middle to top part of the branch, lay bomb two as usual, roll down the branch slowly, than hold against it, you should get a smallboost up, lay bomb 3 just before 2 explodes, hold against the wall, lay bomb 4 just after reaching the peak, than do bomb 5 and 6 as usual, you maybe need to ladder them a bit to get the distance needed to reach the platform. I've been able to do the first 4 bombs, but got send somewhere wet by bomb #3 =/

Maybe a simple Wall TBJM in the hole behind the Branch could be enough, I just can't seem to get a good unmorph even once.
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"Anyway, if LUE has taught me one thing, it's that -4=.999~" - The Bad Guy
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/12/2004 11:44:22 PM
Doesn't look like much has been going on...

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|D.|..|.|\/|.|D
|D.|_|.|..|.|
From: DDRKirby | Posted: 1/13/2004 2:06:49 AM
Umm...Hey...You guys ignored ChaffReaper and his question:

"I think this was discussed before, but I couldn't find any videos up on metroid2002.com. I'm trying to go through the crashed frigate backwards without the gravity suit. I can get past the hydro access tunnel OK thanks to the vid, but now I'm stuck in Connection Elevator to Deck Beta. I can get all the way up to the second Aqua Sac, but then I'm stuck. Has anyone done this before?

This sequence breaking is great stuff. I'm enjoying MP all over again -- not only is it neat when you first do a trick, it's also really cool when you realize you're getting consistent in pulling off the tricks..."

He's my brother and we still haven't figured this out. Please help.
---
-SeriousDDRKirbyTrickster
Serious Sam, Dance Dance Revolution, Kirby, SSX Tricky.
From: kip | Posted: 1/13/2004 7:37:08 AM
as far as i know that room hasn't been done under those conditions, but all the others are fine (as long as you have space jump; without it reactor core is a problem, maybe biotech research also).

i looked at it just now, got stuck at the same place. noticed you can ghetto off the second aqua sac if you move down a bit when you're standing on it. it would easily get the height to land on the above platform, but she hits her head before i can get away from it.

also noticed you can space jump out from under the platform then go back and get "stuck" next to it, and that makes you start hovering up above it if you keep the view locked. after you stop going up, it might be possible to land on the platform when you break away and fall (especially if you can get to this place with your second jump still saved), but i never seemed to make it. tried using a morph to land on it too but fell unusually fast.
From: alchemist | Posted: 1/13/2004 3:52:54 PM
I was just thinking. What if someone with the NTSC Player's Choice version wants to be on the leaderboard? Do they count as a PAL player because of the changes? How would they be able to prove it?

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I am not now nor have I ever been under the age of 13.
9725
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/13/2004 5:03:50 PM
we will make a decision on that as soon as all of the players' choice version changes are documented.
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/13/2004 9:06:37 PM
as far as i know that room hasn't been done under those conditions, but all the others are fine (as long as you have space jump; without it reactor core is a problem, maybe biotech research also).

Reactor core is the room you fight the parasite queen in, right. If not, ignore this... XD
I'm pretty sure I went up reactor core w/out space jump no problems at all...

Whatever...

Can anyone tell me how to do Crossway without space jump or boost ball?
I work much better if I know what I'm doing works...

Of course, that's probably why I discover next to nothing, as well =/
---
Karma
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/13/2004 11:45:50 PM
okay, updated the site with a bunch of player's choice info. i'm going to go ahead and propose that we simply add 0:04.67 to people who obviously did frigate escapes on the player's choice version (i can tell the difference in their videos and you probably can too).

as for running player's choice...bad idea at the moment. probably be better to just buy a used copy of the original version. we will have no choice but to make a third category in the high scores if people do not follow this advice.

i'm only up to the third level of the mines in my player's choice version right now, so i still need to test op, ridley and prime. more updates are therefore possible in that area.

we'll make it through this.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/14/2004 4:31:33 AM
Reactor core is the room you fight the parasite queen in, right. If not, ignore this... XD
I'm pretty sure I went up reactor core w/out space jump no problems at all...

BoostR,

Yes, but did you have gravity? See, you can leave reactor core with gravity, no sj. You can leave reactor core no gravity but with sj. But without both? dunno..because when I did w/o sj but with gravity, single jumps were needed to get up..and bomb jumps do nothing in water without gravity.

Can anyone tell me how to do Crossway without space jump or boost ball?

There is a vid of it being done..but unfortunately, the vcr did not like the person who did it so just when they were about to do it, it went all fuzzy, and when it returns, he was on the top lol

But crossway w/o sj and boost is done like you would do vent shaft. I have not done crossway, ruined shrine or vent shaft yet, so I cannot tell you how it is done..but it is a tbjm that does it...so yeah.

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Refreshment | Posted: 1/14/2004 8:38:36 AM
I want to give thanks to Nate for enumerating the differences in the Player Choice Version.

So basically they put the changes made to European and Japnese versions to the American version?

In another note, i think our question about if Retro let the game open to breacking have been answered with a resounding: NO.

Breacking in this game has been a pleasent coincidence after
all. Its funny because these tricks made the game more interesting yet Retro decided to remove the ability to do some of the tricks.

Anyone else agree with this?
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/14/2004 10:06:40 AM
i agree.

and no, na p.choice to me seems more like na than pal. the only thing that would make me think i'm playing pal is the lack of a scan dash jump. pal to me means skipping tons of lame cut scenes, power bombing troopers, enemies with ridiculous amounts of health, etc. none of that is in p.choice, and i know why: imagine what would happen if the general [north american] public found out that one version was 'superior.'

imagine if we told them...

i'd expect a cease and desist letter from nintendo immediately thereafter. ;)
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/14/2004 10:12:22 AM
I'm absolutely disgusted with these changes. They were totally un-called for. It would have been less hassle for them to simply have left it alone and re-printed the original US version, or just fix the crashing bugs and leave it at that.

I mean, sequence breaking is completely positive to the game and the series, and simply by changing it, Retro have done nothing but attempt to ruin the heritage of the series and annoy new players who might be interested in it.

I'm gonna purchase a UK copy of the Players Choice MP this weekend and test out Geo Thermal and Waste Disposal to see if the same changes have been made.

btw: Nate, are OP's plates now removable on the Players Choice copy of MP (like in PAL)?

I STILL can't think why they would go to such hassle to remove what is only there to ADD replay value to the game...

Andrew "Annoyed MP Monkey" Mills
---
www.xxxxx.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: xxth January 2004
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/14/2004 10:34:20 AM
Yes, but did you have gravity? See, you can leave reactor core with gravity, no sj. You can leave reactor core no gravity but with sj. But without both? dunno..because when I did w/o sj but with gravity, single jumps were needed to get up..and bomb jumps do nothing in water without gravity.

I'm nearly positive I did not have gravity...
that's why I posted :)
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/14/2004 11:54:24 AM
how BoostR?

kip said he was not able to...Amasawa was not able to get out of the crashed frigate when he saved in their without gravity and sj.

You can get out with gravity without sj. You can get out with sj but without gravity...you sure you did not have both?

---
"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/14/2004 12:02:31 PM
It would have been less hassle for them to simply have left it alone and re-printed the original US version, or just fix the crashing bugs and leave it at that.

my thoughts exactly, though i rather wonder if some of the other changes had to do with the crashes, as well, such as the lock on the main quarry door (also present in pal).

I mean, sequence breaking is completely positive to the game and the series, and simply by changing it, Retro have done nothing but attempt to ruin the heritage of the series and annoy new players who might be interested in it.

it is conceivable that retro will use the knowledge gained from metroid prime to make sequence breaking not only possible in prime 2, but also completely intended and crash-proof from the first version as well. in my opinion, with the north american player's choice version retro simply corrected lingering bugs in the first north american release of metroid prime at the expense of obviously unintended techniques we had become accustomed to using. this emotional 'oh they hate s.breaking!' attitude is baseless. there is nothing in the player's choice version that suggests that s.breaking will be deliberately filtered in metroid prime 2.

I'm gonna purchase a UK copy of the Players Choice MP this weekend and test out Geo Thermal and Waste Disposal to see if the same changes have been made.

splendid. first it giveth then it taketh away.

btw: Nate, are OP's plates now removable on the Players Choice copy of MP (like in PAL)?

unknown. i'm only through the third level of the mines at the moment, so i'll need to test the final three bosses and their areas today. would be fascinating if ridley's 'no hurt me' bug is gone, but i doubt it.

also:

I'm nearly positive I did not have gravity...
that's why I posted :)

you would be the discoverer of that method, then, so please describe in detailed steps how you were able to ascend the underwater frigate reactor core without space jump and the gravity suit.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/14/2004 1:33:25 PM
njahnke | In my opinion, with the north american player's choice version retro simply corrected lingering bugs in the first north american release of metroid prime at the expense of obviously unintended techniques we had become accustomed to using. this emotional 'oh they hate s.breaking!' attitude is baseless. there is nothing in the player's choice version that suggests that s.breaking will be deliberately filtered in metroid prime 2.

Has anyone ever crashed the game in Geo Thermal Core? No, course not. They have now made 2 deliberate changes to the door to plasma. In a room that never crashes on even the first-run editions. Why bother going to the hassle of forcing the lock to Grapple only? This now means that version is exempt from proper low % runs as it now has an extra fixed % (Grapple Beam).

And the waste disposal lock fixes which crash bug exactly? Not only did the add the lock as in the PAL/Japanese version, but they added the extra requirement of the grapple beam...

I think Retro got annoyed at bypassing them for a second time on the PAL version. They've made some mysterious additions, I must say. But there wasn't any need to remove scan-dash jumping, add the plasma lock, or even the waste disposal lock, except out of annoyance...

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 14th January 2004
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/14/2004 1:42:18 PM
I totally agree with mills's latest post... the only consistent crashes we've seen are the chozo elevator and furnace entrance, and those are seemingly random. There's been a few other random crashes, like one I got one time fighting parasite queen and hit start+b+x to restart, but please tell me ANY crash that we can consistanty crash or what these changes could possibly fix (how does scan dash cause a crash again?). Now you can easily argue that the changes don't affect people playing the game the first time, and that's almost correct... except for a few in PAL. Imagine you've been told by the hint system to go to geo core for plasma. You go up the spinners, you activate the bomb slot, you trek around the 2 minute spider ball track, and drop in front of the door... only to realize you need a power bomb and don't have one. WTF is the purpose of that rock except to annoy people with a situation like that?
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Flyfunner | Posted: 1/14/2004 2:12:21 PM
Hard 100% in 4:08 PAL
---
HRC Total: 28975.3 m ~ 95071.6 ft Flyfunner: O_o
t3hd4n11: i swear ill kill you if you got a bomb
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/14/2004 3:05:53 PM
Actually, if you think about it (Nate pointed it out in irc) there are reasons for some of the changes...not saying they are right..but they are there.

Why would it be important to have grapple for plasma? Any rooms ring a bell that have stopped people for getting 100%? Yes, gravity chamber with the glitch that if you used plasma on the ice before you have grapple, when you leave the room, the grapple point cannot be used. So instead of fixing the grapple point being able to be used anytime whether you had plasma or not before grapple, they did fix it be in turn, made it so you HAVE to have grapple.

For arboretum and waste disposal there is one reason for this (and they had already changed this for PAL). If you bomb jump over the rune gate, or enter elite research from behind first you have the invisible wall and that just looks bad for the programmers as it just looks bad. Not to mention, you can squeeze yourself through both walls from reverse...o_O

Though, it is possible to still go through elite research from behind, you would have to go grab the p.edge expansion, go through ppc and then up through the mines..I think that would work eh?

Scan dash...I hate how they got rid of this, but it is obvious they wanted dash jumps, but not scan..so I can see why they took it off...though, I do have one argument against why scan dashing is good. The game wants to you scan things. Well you are a sitting duck when you scan a creature if it can attack you during the scan. So dashing works great for that because you can still avoid their attacks. Maybe they can make it so you can dash when scanning, but if you let go of L, you do not get the distance you would if you did it with combat?

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/14/2004 3:47:42 PM
Why would it be important to have grapple for plasma? Any rooms ring a bell that have stopped people for getting 100%? Yes, gravity chamber with the glitch that if you used plasma on the ice before you have grapple, when you leave the room, the grapple point cannot be used. So instead of fixing the grapple point being able to be used anytime whether you had plasma or not before grapple, they did fix it be in turn, made it so you HAVE to have grapple.

Oh, right. So you're saying it would have been easier for the developers to go to the EXTRA hassle of adding a lock on that door (only removable with grapple), when the chamber glitch was already fixed in the EU/Japanese version of MP?

And why change waste disposal lock to both main pb's AND grapple now?

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.xxxxx.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: xxth January 2004
From: Toozin | Posted: 1/14/2004 7:10:23 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Toozin | Posted: 1/14/2004 7:11:11 PM
You're assuming that the same people were in charge of all these changes. I can almost guarantee you that the people who made the PAL changes and the people who made the p.choice changes and the people making the big decisions on Metroid Prime 2 are all entirely different people. I mean, they did all this crap to p.choice, but they didn't even fix the track jump, which imo is the closest thing to a game glitch we use. I bet there's a lot more going on than it seems.
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yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
Maru Mari, a Metroid sprite comic: http://www.metroid2002.com/maru_mari/
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/14/2004 9:12:38 PM
How do we know the extent to which they know about sequence breaking? One of them up there at retro probably knows about m2k2, but will that knowledge permeate up to the programming level in playerschoice or mp2?

The reason they did all this player's choice stuff is because IMO they think Sbreaking makes the game look bad; it suggests a lack of skill and foresight on the programmer's part. Some of this stuff could be done by random gamers, albeit persistent ones. For example, my brother has a mild interest in prime, and sometimes watches me when I play. Whenever I do a particularly interesting piece of sequencebreaking, like early plasma, he goes, "Wow, this game has a lot of glitches." The people who really like to do this seqbreaking stuff is probably in a very small minority of MP players, and retro does not feel the need to cater to us. We'll all probably buy MP2 regardless :)

Also, they had more time to develop PAL, so they think it is a better version. So some of the changes made in PAL goes to Playerschoice as well.
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/14/2004 9:34:15 PM
it's the same there as it is at any other company...doesn't matter what we find - matters what they find. they don't give a rat's ass about us, other than occasional amusement.
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: kip | Posted: 1/14/2004 9:47:58 PM
likewise, the world doesn't revolve around them, and it doesn't revolve around mp2 either. if it ends up disappointing in some way or lacking replay value, just don't play it.
From: redcmt | Posted: 1/14/2004 10:34:32 PM
Their acting ignorant if they think sequence breaking doesnt help this games popularity. Sure after I beat this game twice and I thought it was cool and all but if it wasnt for sequence breaking...I would never have played it 5 more times.
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Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: kip | Posted: 1/14/2004 10:45:16 PM
would have quit after unlocking the galleries myself.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/15/2004 7:21:32 AM
After re-reading an interview with retro in UK mage EDGE (in their GC special edition), Retro mention that the whole team had been HUGE Metroid/Super Metroid fans.

Now, if that really was the case, how would they not know that Sequence Breaking was a major part of the heritage of the series?

SM sequence breaking has been around since the game was out (pretty much), it's hard to miss it if you're a genuine fan.

I still think they done it out of spite. The plasma lock has NO reason to be there, Retro have changed that twice now, and the glitch on the Gravity Chamber grapple point was fixed for the PAL/Japanese. There's NO reason any of the locks/changes can be justified...

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
---
www.zeromission.co.uk
The Worlds largest Zero Mission Screenhot Collection is here
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/15/2004 10:29:07 PM
Hey guys. Topic's looking slow... and I have to admit that I haven't really done anything on the game lately. But I am making up for it now, as I present a post from many months ago (I found it on Nate's site):

From: CALFoolio | Posted: 4/12/2003 10:20:44 PM my estimates on the eventual lowest times are:

normal any% 1:30-1:35
normal 100% 2:05-2:10
hard any% 1:50-1:55
hard 100% 2:20-2:25


Isn't that hilarious? Those times have all been DEMOLISHED!

Also, I'm wondering: do any of the old-school sequence-breakers have the original topics archived, before the merging of sequence-breaking and speed-running? I think it would interesting to read through those again...

Okay, back to business: what is preventing Great Tree Hall from being solved no sj/spider? I managed to dash to the spider track, and I read somewhere that kip "floated" up to the door or something weird like that. What is the problem?

From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/15/2004 11:16:40 PM
...there doesn't seem to be. I was surfing the metroid2002 movie files (kip's directory) and I was looking for the most recent ones (thus a new discovery) and I found the video where he is hovering in gth. He seems to make it up alright. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...
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One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: kip | Posted: 1/15/2004 11:35:52 PM
it's just to show what it looks like. it was with space jump, even using both jumps to reach the spot where you get stuck.

the "hover/float" thing can occur in many rooms, but it's useless everywhere at the moment; you need space jump to reach that spot in the vid. i tried to bomb ladder there from the round cap but it didn't work, couldn't unmorph because you end up next to the track.

if you could get there without space jump, the room would probably be solved. but the whole thing could also just be a red herring and the solution is something completely different.
From: mar21182 | Posted: 1/15/2004 11:54:18 PM
I think it's pretty funny how you guys "solve" each room. I'm not mocking you. I'm just saying how much reasoning must be done in order to finish rooms under the 21% conditions. You guys should be doing rocket science or biochemical engineering or something. Figuring out each room takes an incredible amount of reasoning, experimentation, and most of all patience. I love Metroid Prime but I don't think i'd ever have the patience to figure this stuff out.

Anyway, just saying Bravo to you guys and keep up the good work. Some day I'm gonna sign onto the site and find that someone found a way to do an insanely difficult 21% game. What an achievement that would be.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/16/2004 2:00:43 AM
Indeed. =)
---
One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/16/2004 3:04:16 AM
reasoning, experimentation, and most of all patience

yes, very good. glad to see it's possible for someone on the outside to understand - unconfirmed (for me, at least) until now. ;)
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/17/2004 1:12:29 AM
That was a mix up. I had space jump. Just got two runs mixed together...

Okay, back to business: what is preventing Great Tree Hall from being solved no sj/spider? I managed to dash to the spider track, and I read somewhere that kip "floated" up to the door or something weird like that. What is the problem?

Dash to the base of the track, or to that ledge in the middle? Cause if it's the base, here's a simple, fast way to get there:
Find the big tree near the the track. Go between them, and walk into the wall. Face the track, back up all the way onto the tree. Now, if you move a little to the right, you should rise up a bit. After you can't go any higher, just face the track, hold L, and jump to the ledge.

Need to contribute something, so:
In Phazon Mines, go to the room called Elevator A.
Simply walk through the hologram at the top, and continue to run into the wall where there are two little pipes. Stop after you walk into it a bit. The elevator will move down, but you will stay there. You can jump back across, or watch the elevator descend. Might be something that could go into metroid2002.com , in the "other" section.
Just a thought...
:)
[I really want to have my name down for something]

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Bump
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/17/2004 1:18:09 AM
oh, my good friend boostr, the tragedy is that that has been known for some time. sorry... :/
---
Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/17/2004 1:20:38 AM
ugh... wild w/o spider definitely ISN"T as simple as it looks...

mostly its the patience. I did it once in about maybe 30 tries on a 100% file, but they were all at once. now I'm trying to do it again, but each time I suck, I have to fight Flaahgra again. and again. and again. :( I'm SOOOO tired of him...

the only good thing coming from this is that my lack of patience has taught me a wtbj because it takes too long to to the arbuwhat'sitsmane gate otherwise :/

you guys think that I should just skip this damn trick and come back later w/ the spider ball, or keep trying? keep in mind this is my second time EVER through the game (not including the hard mode file I just started), so... what?

this is driving me crazy :(
---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/17/2004 1:52:02 AM
OMG I actually made a real discovery!
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~sda/demo.pl?mp/main_quarry_missile_wo_spider.avi

I've been working on a hard 100% with a different route, and only now that i'm nearly half way done with it did I realize I wouldn't have spider the 2nd time I went through main quarry, and there was no way to get the missile without it. I figured I was screwed, because many of us at looked at this problem before, including me. Then a simple idea hit me and it worked almost right away hehe. Now I can continue the wacko hard route yay! Of course now you only have to climb the stairs in main quarry once, and that saves quite a lot of time.
---
Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/17/2004 2:31:33 AM
A slight addition, the morph at the end of the vid isn't needed, you can just jump right into the missile.
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: Zilon | Posted: 1/17/2004 7:39:32 AM
I didn't even bother trying to do the trick, I'll jsut go back later for it.

What I'm stuck on now at the moment is trying to get the plasma beam without bothering to go around all the spider ball track.
I've seen a video where you use an l-lock space jump to reach a small ledge on the right of the door, but every time I try it I jsut can't find the ledge and I slide back down into the larva.

I have the PAL version if that makes any differences for this trick.

Grrr, I've jsut had to go through the whole of Phazon mines as of the door to waste disposel being locked - adds so much time to the record:(
From: alchemist | Posted: 1/17/2004 10:51:19 AM
i too am having a hell of a time trying to get the artifact of the wild w/o spider. I've been practicing on my 100% game for like 4 hours. I can bomb myself above the ledge about 9/10 times, but what's killing me is the morph at the end. Every time I try, the best I can do is to merely fall all the way to the bottom of the shaft.

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I am not now nor have I ever been under the age of 13.
9725
From: mar21182 | Posted: 1/17/2004 10:58:07 AM
I don't mean to brag because it was probably just luck, but after practicing on my 100% game, I went back to try it on my Sequence breaking run, and I got the artifact of wild on my first try.

I found that the instant you get up to about the level of the door, you lay one last bomb, and when the bomb goes off you instantly press up and right instead of up and left, and hit X to unmorph. This has to be done a millisecond after the last bomb goes off. Just remember that if you can get up all the way to the door consistenly, then you have done 90% of the battle. Even on the sequence breaking run, you can conceivably get 3 tries at the unmorph at the top, if you fall and land on the block midway down, and you don't mess up your bomb jumping.

Just keep trying... you'll eventually get it, and you'll be happy about it.
From: redcmt | Posted: 1/17/2004 12:52:49 PM
Well the problem is with artifact wild, you really dont have 3 chances with a low percent run...atleast I didnt. I tried doing a 22% run on hard and I must say that I suck at it. Even if you are able to get back up there and all without losing too much life, and you still can refill your life back up to 99 with the boxes in that hallway...you still have to fight three ghosts by only tapping a with the ****ing power beam. I tried twice, died on the ghosts both times, and said "**** it, I dont even care". Just because if I cant beat the ghosts after two times then how will I ever beat omega pirate or some crap. Call me a wussie but I just dont care enough to do a low percent run...and Im sick of flaahgra.
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Lgtcount - Banned with a karma of 353.
"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: mar21182 | Posted: 1/17/2004 1:42:14 PM
I'm sorry. I missed when you said you were doing a low percentage run. I can see how it would be difficult then. I've never tried a low percentage run, so I don't know anything about that.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/17/2004 4:00:51 PM
I dunno if you were talking to me, but if you were, I'm not doing a low % run. I only have 1 energy tank, though :( arg. I guess I'll just have to practice on my 100% file :/ I have it saved in the room in magmoor near the elevator that leads to the room next to the sun chamber, so I should be able to get there quickly enough each time I die...
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: alchemist | Posted: 1/17/2004 5:37:42 PM
well, I've spent all the time since my last post trying to get to the top of the sun tower. Still a no go. Thank god its winter right now so I was able to take that 10 minute break and throw snowballs at a tree. I can't get this damn this. My morph at the top always screws up. Hell, just to be safe, I even bomb myself halfway past the lip of the corridor. Nothing. This is driving me nuts. I've ran a low percent game(30%) all the way to Omega Pirate with no real problem. Geo core wasn't even this bad.

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I am not now nor have I ever been under the age of 13.
9725
From: QBOB | Posted: 1/17/2004 6:30:14 PM
I, like many people here, have been trying a lot and failing at early wild. It's part of my attempt at a 23% game (on normal), but I'm worried that if I can't get past this how will I ever do the rest? Compared to what needs to get done later, how hard is this segment? If this is one of the hardest anyway I'll keep trying, but if there's stuff way harder than this it's probably just too much for me. Thanks.
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/17/2004 6:33:01 PM
perhaps it's time to simultaneously record my hands and the game...what do you think?
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/17/2004 7:26:54 PM
its a long time due >_<

j/k, but it would definitely help. make sure you get good footage of both your hands and a good quality screen. I dunno how dazzle or whatever you happen to be using works, but if you can, maybe it would be best to use a camcorder to exclusively tape your hands while taping the run w/ a VCR at the same time and then playing them simultaneously when you make the vid.

I dunno if I made that clear enough, but you should be able to get what I'm trying to say out of it. If you have any questions, just give me a quick IM if you want. screenname's in my whois.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: kip | Posted: 1/17/2004 8:06:59 PM
the instant unmorph/samus refusing to unmorph should never happen if you're far enough away from the wall when you hit X. wait a bit longer; consider also using 1 more bomb than you usually would to make up for this. but in my experience, it's not good to go too far above the ledge before you unmorph. i'd only go about 2 bombs above its height, at most.

at first it might be weird to get used to hitting X later. you still need to unmorph while ascending from your last bomb to catch the ledge, so right before/right when your last bomb explodes start to move away, then unmorph no more than 3/4 of a second later (when it explodes). you don't have to move that far away to get a good unmorph.

i don't know if this will help anyone, but that is what i did to stop getting the bad unmorphs.
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/17/2004 8:22:05 PM
kip has a very good point. When practicing this, I was able to get it the first time I ever tried, and about 10 times in 10 minutes. When I tried it in my actual speed run, I had 2 bad ummorphs and died. :( I guess I was nervous because it was my actual run...and I didn't feel confident at the late unmorph. It does work though.
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One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/17/2004 8:26:14 PM
thanks kip. that's actually the first time I've heard taht o_O

I'll try that once I'm done screwing around w/ AR.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Jish | Posted: 1/18/2004 2:18:37 AM
Also, I would consider this trick as one of the hardest things in a low percent run. Probably the hardest is Geothermal Core without Boost, but I've never tried it so I can't comment. Vent Shaft and Life Grove are also supposedly hard in 22% as well. As for 23%, I'd go with these as the hardest things in the run.

#1: Metroid Prime. I simply cannot beat him, and I've tried what feels like 50 times.

#2: Phazon Mines Run #2. Doing the Metroid Q. A trick successfully, then the Fungal Halls and M. Q. B all in a row is just terrible.

#3: The Sun Tower jump. I think you know about this one already.

#4: Phazon Mines Run #1. You have to do it twice actually, because you do it before PMR#2. Anyway, there are just so many Troopers, and the Invisible Sentry Drone (although there is a good technique to kill it without getting hurt), and it stacks up. Doing it the second time is even worse though, because you have to go through the Wave Troopers hallway and stuff to reach the Phazon Elite.

#5: Omega Pirate. I beat him on my 12th try, but it wasn't easy.

#6: Meta Ridley. I beat him on my 4th try. If you can reliably dash jump away from his charge attack, say, 80 times, then you're set. Stupid 2nd form...

#7: Great Tree Hall gate jump. It may be simple for some, but it is really the only other hard thing worth mentioning, and if you do't know EXACTLY what to then it is nearly impossible.

#8: Geothermal Core. Like above, it isn't really all that bad. I actually find it pretty easy. But if you don't know what to do, and if you can't ghetto jump well (I certainly can't), then you're screwed. The Twin Fires Tunnel before it adds to the difficulty as well.
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"I am a delicate daisy, and my gorilla's all atwitter! My shoulder has an itch that catches fire in the winter!" -DarkJon12
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/18/2004 4:36:19 AM
Well, I made it out of PPC without space jump today - twice! I did it twice because I forgot to pick up the grapple beam before heading to PPC the first time. It's not really that hard, though. All it takes is 5 solid bomb ladders. On the third bomb ladder, there is an invisible ledge slightly below the platform you are bomb laddering onto. I got on it twice, and it makes things a lot easier (I was able to make it to the platform without the invisible ledge once, but it's kinda tough). I'll start working on Geo Core now (I have grapple, boost, and spider).

Is there a way to make it from the bottom of PPC (where you come out of the OP fight) to the top, or did I actually discover something new? I can make it to the spider track, but I couldn't make it any further than that (although I do have an idea that I am sure would work, I didn't try it all that much).

Geo Core without boost is looking good for me, too. I am very comfortable with the insane dash to the slot now (I can hit it nearly every time). I just have to wait until I get the bug/glitch/whatever to get sucked in. I had to create a separate file to practice this though (with boost), because I still can't get the jump from the 2nd spinner to the 3rd. I really don't think I am doing anything wrong, and I am pretty sure it is something wrong with my GCN (especially because sometimes the music starts to skip when I'm in Geo Core, and it has never done that before). I went from being able to do that jump every time to not being able to to it at all.

Also got a new frigate time of 4:20.42. This was my first time playing the frigate in a month or two, and I had a mistake that cost me about 1 1/2 seconds, so I will probably try improving this to at least 4:22.xx.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/18/2004 4:39:45 AM
I just reread my post, and I may have been misleading in what I said about getting to the top of PPC. By top, I actually meant the middle of the room. I was able to make it from the bottom of the room to the morph ball passage with the spider ball track. Sorry if I confused anybody!
From: Abysmal | Posted: 1/18/2004 8:04:30 AM
For Geo Core without SJ, someone said there is something you can stand on that is higher up for dashing, but there is no scan point. What about using the trick similar to the PAL method of aquiring the SJ, keeping a lock on an enemy? Can you target the spores?
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/18/2004 10:59:23 AM
GameCube04,

Yeah, getting up ppc is known without sj and in 21% conditions. There is only one jump that needs to be verified without sj to say the whole room is completed.

There are 4 parts to this room. You were able to do part 1 and 4 which the only item you can use to help you is sj, which is why both parts are annoying.

Here are the four parts:

Part 1 - from the plasma door that leads from OP, to just before the spider track/ball course which will take you to the main platform of ppc.

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ppc_part_1_no_sj.mp4

Part 2 - spider track and ball course that takes you to the main platform

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ppc_part_2_no_spider_no_sj.mp4

Part 3 - either up the pillar or the spider spiral that leads to the rafters/platforms

zoidi was able to do this part. What you need to do is either dash or jump on the pillar that you would use to skip spider, from there jump to where you would normally get to with sj. You do a dbjm to land further up on the pillar (the only jump that needs verifying). After you manage the jump, it is just two single jumps to the rafters. No vids of it are available, I am working on it though. But it is not fun getting up from the bottom...

here is an attempt:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/ppc_jump_2_trial.mp4

Part 4 - on the rafters, getting to the floating platform that leads to the exit.

You know this part...which is funny, because Ama and kip went on about how hard this is..yet kip tries it about a couple weeks ago and goes, uh I think I must have sucked...(he does not of cos ;p, but he realised it was not as hard as what he remembered).

It is weird though how much more we know then what they did a while ago. I mean a lot of the rooms we are working on have been worked on a long time ago, but we know dash know, we know ladder dbjm, even 3bjm...so we are still finding new things.

I do find it funny that you can get the final dash, yet have problems with 2 > 3. You need any tips on it? I have not done it in a while (heh I seem to suck with sj now), but from what I remember, you stand on the top part of the spinner closest to spinner 3. Lock down (you do not need all the way) and push against the pillar itself. Move forward (like a small running start), jump, let go of L a little after the jump (not right after, you are doing a delayed l-lock jump). Just before you make the second jump, hit L, hit b, then let go of L (a second delayed L-lock sj).

good luck.

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/18/2004 12:15:14 PM
I would like to say something: I think the "l-lock" space jump is worthless. Let me explain.

On Nate's site, every difficult trick for which one of these "l-lock" jumps is recommended, I have been able to make with double l-jumps (tap l, jump, tap l again, jump again).

Spinner 2 -> Spinner 3, no problem. Getting out of Life Grove? Not a big deal. On the video for "fast arboretum", an "l-lock" jump is used at the beginning to get to one of the platforms - I routinely make this jump with absolutely no "locking" whatsoever.

Of course, I could be wrong... or maybe I'm incorrect in thinking that everyone uses l-lock jumps for everything. But in any case, I challenge people to use the double l-jump. It's quicker and easier to use. It's BETTER.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/18/2004 1:04:17 PM
LeCoureur,

from the technique page off metroid2002.com:
Different situations call for variations of the L-Lock Spring Space Jump. Try varying the amount of time before you release the L-Lock, or try releasing the L-Lock after you Space Jump, instead of after the first Jump. You can also opt to simply tap L as you leave the ground instead of locking your view down.

;p

What you are doing are l-lock jumps. What Nate describs makes the jumps easier because you get to see where you are jumping, so you can leave that much later thus have that much more initial distance in the jump. Some jumps, like landing site to artifact temple, and just jumping on the little nipple in life grove, you can do without looking where you land, but I guess I just need the little help looking down (or up) gives for me to make the jump.

There are many variations of l-lock sjs. twisting is great for extra distance, delay l-lock gives a little extra height and it also can change your direction, and there are others.

But like I said, the main reason for looking down is to make sure you get to the absulute edge of what you are jumping off, and whatever else you need to help you make the jump. If you know the jump, you can do it without looking and that of course is better for speed.

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/18/2004 1:51:18 PM
gamecube04, nice escape time.

and lecoureur, tzyr explained it pretty well, but he neglected to say that there actually is another benefit to l-locking up or down in certain situations. by doing so, you actually move the bounding box down (in the case of looking up) or up (in the case of looking down). this artificial tiny height boost/penalty can be used in some rare situations to get just a little more (or just a little less) height, such as in the landing site ghetto, http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_tricks_landing_site_ghetto_jump.html

when i release the l-lock there, it actually lifts samus up artificially to the ledge.
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: gamerkid17 | Posted: 1/18/2004 11:05:08 PM
Can anyone help me here. I am in the Great Tree Hall and I am trying to double bomb jump over the bars. I can't do it and I am getting pissed off. Can anybody help me and give me some advice or tips.
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Play video games forever! Read my quote!
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/18/2004 11:38:47 PM
http://www.metroid2002.com/without_gravity_skip_frigate.html
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/18/2004 11:39:51 PM
according to radix, its one of the hardest parts of the game. you have to set teh third bomb a little lower than normal to get more velocity and height, but I haven't done it yet so I can't tell you exactly.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/19/2004 1:11:35 AM
*is Nate's eternal slave*

It's not that hard. Just set the 3rd bomb a bit lower than you usually would.

BTW....has anybody been working on rooms for 21% recently? It seems there hasn't been many new discoveries lately...I ****ing work full-time, so my time is limited. I usually only get about 6 hours of sleep per night.
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One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/19/2004 1:35:34 AM
I never found the dbj in Great Tree Hall to be all that difficult. Sure it was hard at first, but I always get it in no more than 5 tries now. Just set your third bomb slightly lower than normal, and just as that bomb hits you, hold forward to make it through the bars. Also make sure you are dbjing on the rightmost side of the bars.

Tzyr, thank you!! I was not doing a delayed l-lock jump before, thus I was not getting the height. I was able to make that jump several times in a few tries after reading that. Thanks! I feel stupid for not realizing that before, though.

I'm thinking about restarting my 22% run, and focusing more on speed this time. I'm really upset on the 11 minutes I wasted after Vent Shaft just trying to find a missile pickup for the save room door, plus there were other dumb mistakes like that that just make the video of what I've done so far in my game ugly to watch. I know 22% isn't an optimal game for a speed run (especially on hard mode, which is what my current 22% game is on), so this should be a good challenge :)
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/19/2004 1:52:08 AM
well, what's going on right now is kinda like what (I think) went on for both skipping the spider ball and boost ball- except this time its like trying to skip both at once because of the difficulty. all the "easy" rooms have been solved, many of the ones that are easy but have abstract solutions are solved (i.e. Phendrana elevator w/o spider), and even some of the hardest ones like ppc w/o spider have been solved or simply need verification. but the hardest and most near- impossible ones *coughgeocough* are flat out tearing us to shreds right now :(

on a side note, I fixed a problem w/ my l-lock jumps in which I realized that I was space jumping too late, and proceeded to finish another segment of my hard mode file in horrible time with several more missle expansions, an energy tank, and the artifact of strength, now saved in phendrona shorelines save station.

I still dunno exactly what I'm going to do about early wild, though :/ I did a new file and got SJF on my 4th or so attempt instead of taking a hideous 15 minutes (saved 12 minutes faster at same point before Flaahgra), so I'll probably move on w/ file 1 but stay till I get early wild for file 2... yes I got bored and didn't want to restart after failing miserably in that first SJF file.. shut up. but now that I'm so far ahead in my hard file I'll probably get hooked on that and not come back XD.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/19/2004 2:03:08 AM
gamecubeman- if you've already gotten plasma, then DON"T RESTART. but since you probably haven't, go ahead :P if you ever manage to complete it, you'll be number 1 on the low % hard list even if you get 20 hours b/c no one has done 22% hard yet :P
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: illusionlithium | Posted: 1/19/2004 11:07:16 AM
I came here to check stuff out if you know me :D

Anyways, I was here when we were stuck on 23%, and already concluded that it wasnt possible to get lower. Also, 3 secret worlds were found. Im hearing stuff about 22% and wondering about more worlds. Someone just give me a checkup and tell me what item you can skip to get 22%. Thx....

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From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/19/2004 11:10:22 AM
No, I haven't gotten early plasma yet, that's actually where I am though. I was wondering whether or not I could ever do Geo without boost, but I am 100% sure I can get it since I can do the dash to the slot nearly every time. I am saved right before Geo with 1:10 I think, but it really should be more like :55 or even less with all the dumb mistakes I've made. I think I will restart my 22% game today and see how it goes.
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/19/2004 11:12:31 AM
illusionlithium, the boost ball has been skipped for a 22% game, which has currently only been done by TreborSelbon. Now we are working on skipping the space jump (not for low% though).
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/19/2004 9:29:55 PM
... WTF?

I headed to the thardus fight from the rear after getting the early plasma beam, and when I went in, I space jumped over to him and the fight didn't start. then I proceeded to CLIMB ON TOP OF HIM and the fight STILL didn't start... but I got hurt o_O so I climbed on top and jumped around and got hurt a few more times, but he never woke up until I jumped back and landed a ways away from him o_O

talk about rock climbing....
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/19/2004 10:00:35 PM
That's because the trigger for the cutscene that starts the fight is over by the door that you're supposed to come in.
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/19/2004 10:06:22 PM
then I proceeded to fight thardus forgetting to scan him, restarted, FORGOT AGAIN, and saved :( I'll just have to go for all scans on a different file :(
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/19/2004 10:18:20 PM
My mock Any% Normal run is almost complete. Expect an offical time, most likely 1:30, in a couple of days. That should get me 3rd place, right? (I say "mock" because it started out with me not trying especially hard, but then when I saw that I might get on the high score list, I started really trying).

I reached Omega Pirate today, and I finally buckled down and learned how to kick his ass. I mean, really KICK it - I got him in 1:26 one time. It was cool because the best I'd done before today was like 5 minutes.

Then when I went back for Newborn and returned to Metroid Quarantine B, I kept getting screwed by the metroids. There's like 6 of them and they wouldn't leave me alone long enough to cross the big phazon gap. Then when I finally got through unscathed, I saved for a second time in MQB... I'm kind of a whore when it comes to saving. =[

Ridley, here I come!
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/19/2004 10:26:16 PM
Is anybody working on GTH or Geo Core?
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One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: Zilon | Posted: 1/20/2004 1:31:56 PM
Can anyone give me a good detailed way of getting out of Life grove without having to fight the Ghosts. I know you have to stand on the rock to the left of where the x-ray visor is and then do an L-lock space jump to it.

But I really need details of when to jump, where to aim for etc. I've been trying for a few days to do it and have only been able to succed about 5 times:(

Thanks for your help.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/20/2004 1:47:58 PM
The perfect solution for that room:

http://www.metroid-prime.co.uk/exit_lifegrove_quickly.shtml

Detailed description, images and a movie showing you everything you need to know. =)

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
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www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 17th January 2004
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 1/20/2004 2:07:01 PM
I recently created a board to discuss a way to do the Furnace track jump that is slightly easier and more reproducible (at least for me). It basically involves using strafing to climb the track slowly and smoothly - check the board for a detailed description. I haven't seen this way of doing the track jump discussed anywhere, so it might be new. (I wouldn't call it a discovery, just a different way of doing a previously known trick.) I would appreciate it if some of the sequence breaking vets could check it out - they would know better than I whether this is new or already known. Thanks!!!
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"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/20/2004 2:52:28 PM
Frigate Escape Time: 4:21.62
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/20/2004 3:03:14 PM
Hiya peoples. Im going for a low % game, and i'm at the part after flaaghra(sp?) where you have to the the bomb jumps up that wall and stuff. I can get to the top of the wall, but im not exactly sure what to do. Do you move the stick up and right after the last bomb blows up, or after the bomb is laid? Thanks for your help.
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~BtT-3:39.55~~HRC-53370.x~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 1/20/2004 3:13:51 PM
Here you go:

http://www.metroid-prime.co.uk/suntower_wo_sball.shtml

Hope that helps. Movie included.

Andrew "Metroid Website Monkey" Mills
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www.samus.co.uk
The Greatest Metroid Site: Updated on: 17th January 2004
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/20/2004 4:24:59 PM
woohoo that helped. Thanks! I managed to uncurl this thime so i might be able to get it soon!
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~BtT-3:39.55~~HRC-53370.x~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/20/2004 5:27:06 PM
Sorry for the double post...but i did it!

After beating the chozo ghosts i went and saved, and my time is now 23 minutes. Is this any good for my first low % run?
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~BtT-3:39.55~~HRC-53370.x~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/20/2004 5:35:43 PM
treb will have to weigh in about that time, but i am personally amazed at your ability to pull this off. even today with 22% it (early wild) is still up there with the hardest things to do for a first timer. how many tries did it take you?
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/20/2004 5:46:21 PM
Well, i tried for about 2 hours yesterday, then about another hour, and then i posted for help. So however long after my first post also. And i was kinda scared because i thought i would die at the chozo ghosts. O_o so i would say around 4:30-5 hours total.
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~BtT-3:39.55~~HRC-53370.x~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/20/2004 6:48:29 PM
well I practiced it a total of about maybe an hour and a half not including the time I wasted beating Flaahgra 15+ times >_< maybe I just have to try some more since I haven't gotten it. :/
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From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/20/2004 7:29:04 PM
update- YES I DID IT!! =D

I was trying too hard earlier >_< its actually a lot simpler than I thought >_< saved at :31 in magmoor though :/ meh, its my first "speed run" (if you call it that, is more like a try-not-to-suck-so-bad run >_> ) so oh well :/

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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/20/2004 9:00:18 PM
What's the future of sequence breaking in Metroid titles? We're not certain, but given the reaction Retro Studios reportedly had when news of the world-record 1:37...

This was in the article that nate posted on teh most recent headline in m2k2...does anybody know what Retro's reaction was? The article didn't say...
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/20/2004 10:27:05 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/20/2004 10:27:20 PM
judging from the rest of the paragraph, it seems like Retro was shocked almost to death but was extremely pleasently surprised.

Congrats Radix. Your famous now. even Retro knows you ;) remember all of us losers when you go to work for nintendo ;)

XD
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/20/2004 11:56:34 PM
does anybody know what Retro's reaction was?

Yes, I gave a cyrptic answer in the interview... that's all I can really say.

New trick, using a method found by zoidi: get the Metroid Quarantine A missile w/o using any power bombs... if it goes really well it's a little faster too!

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~sda/demo.pl?mp/mqa_missile_wo_pb.avi
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/21/2004 12:02:13 AM
so, Radix, how does it feel to be able to surprise makers of a video game with your mad-skeelz at it? ;)
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/21/2004 12:04:06 AM
how does it feel to be able to surprise makers of a video game with your mad-skeelz at it?

The same as it did 6-7 years ago...
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/21/2004 12:05:29 AM
what happened then?
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 1/21/2004 12:22:33 PM
Please check out http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=32495&topic=12257627 if you get a chance. It describes a different way to do the Furnace Track Jump using a strafing technique. It causes Samus to climb the track smoothly and very reproducibly. So far one other person (MrGuru) has visited, and confirmed that it worked for him. I would appreciate if other sequence breakers could try the trick, and also if anyone could let me know if I came across an actual (tiny) discovery, or if this little trick is already known. Thanks.
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"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: redcmt | Posted: 1/21/2004 4:20:15 PM
yea, I posted about that awhile ago and it seemed like everyone already knew about it =/
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"I wish I had a friend as good as me" - My cuz
From: Refreshment | Posted: 1/21/2004 6:04:32 PM
The new method for MQA missile expansion is not really usefull but I LIKE IT ALOT.

I havent tried it yet but do you have to let the Metroid unfreeze? In the video i saw you waited some time before attemting to jump.

For the Main Quarry expansion, i took some shots but never managed to make the jump on top of the crank. Any sugestions you can give me/us?
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/21/2004 6:08:41 PM
its a short l-lock spring jump. if you look at the vid, he releases the lock in (I think) its his first jump. that's how he gets enough height. then its a simple l-lock jump/ spring jump to the crane, jump in and collect the expansion.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/21/2004 9:12:55 PM
Bump

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Goin' slow again...
From: Refreshment | Posted: 1/21/2004 9:48:42 PM
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/21/2004 3:08:41 PM | Message Detail
its a short l-lock spring jump. if you look at the vid, he releases the lock in (I think) its his first jump. that's how he gets enough height. then its a simple l-lock jump/ spring jump to the crane, jump in and collect the expansion.
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Believe me i know about that, yet i cant get to the top of the crane. Have you manage the trick yourself?

Anyway i did few tries maybe it was one of does days when nothing works well. Ill give another try later.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/21/2004 10:41:49 PM
yep. I dunno if it makes any difference, but in the vid Radix jumps from the side of the thing that's over the computer (you know what I'm talking about). He may be doing that to get some ghetto effect on the jump. try that. there's a slanted part of the crane that you can slide off of. that may be it, or there may be another part. either way, ghetto probably helps some.

one more thing- this is probably old, but I was battling the ghosts in Flaahgra's room and I found, first of all, that you can see where they are going if you look REALLY hard at the dust that kicks up when they take off or land when they're invisible. that is really helpful in predicting where they are going to be. second thing, When I was battling, I got down to one ghost and thought I killed it so I jumped onto Flaahgra's flower. the ghost popped up in my face as he also decided to go there :P but that's not the point. I stood in the middle of the flower and while I didn't get to see much of it because one more hit killed it, but all 3 times it moved it went to the top of a mirror, where it was easy to see. and when it died, there was no cutscene of the artifact appearing. instead, the cutscene started, but as soon as the artifact itself would have appeared, I picked it up, so that cutscene never really took place. then my view got frozen for 2 seconds maybe on the door taht you first use when you face Flaahgra itself. then it went back to normal and I saved in magmoor A at :21 :P

was kind of weird. what's even weirder is that I've gotten wild early on my first attempt at the unmorph part of coming back 3 straight times. once on and old file, and once on each of the files saved on my 2 mem cards I'm using for this run. and this is my first real attempt at a speed run so wish me luck =D
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From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/21/2004 11:15:34 PM
#metroid on esper

most of us use excalibur.esper.net

legend. is another one

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/21/2004 11:16:46 PM
I must be going insane..thought the last message was someone asking for the irc channel..turns out that was on the first page..whoa

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/21/2004 11:17:31 PM
...o_O
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 1/22/2004 12:55:16 AM
Poor Tzyr.

I've done that exact same thing before; so, it's not just you.

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http://www.metroid2002.com
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2004 1:10:05 AM
frigate escape 4.26.00

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/4.26.00.avi
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/22/2004 1:12:35 AM
yeah. its almost happened to me too many times x_X

... and when I decided to go back w/ my third memory card and give segment 4 (Flaahgra) another shot and to totally go insane... and cut off another minute somewhere :) probably from a better fight w/ Flaahgra and a MUCH better ghost fight.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/22/2004 9:44:09 AM
for help with the main quarry missile expansion, try here: http://www.metroid2002.com/speed_tricks_main_quarry_missile.html

for me it was a lot easier to run up the slope and then jump just before reaching the top.

also: kip is the greatest thing to hit this earth.
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 1/22/2004 12:53:48 PM
kip is god.
nuff said.

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marth1, TreborSelbon, and kip are gods XD
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/22/2004 4:44:33 PM
XD @ CAL's sig
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/23/2004 12:52:33 AM
What is the latest list of rooms that have yet to be solved for 21%?
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/23/2004 1:16:01 AM
Great Tree Hall, and Geo.

I believe that is it.
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My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/23/2004 2:52:48 AM
and p.edge unfortunately. We are close on GTH and p.edge, but at the same time, very far.

for GTH, we can get on the spider track, and if you have sj, you can jump to a spot where you would hover to the door..but it is just out of the reach without sj :(

p.edge, we just really need to get on the tree, and from the tree to the first snowy ledge. From there it is probably possible to get to the door.

Geo, bah..we need a miracle :(

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Adon Idom | Posted: 1/23/2004 2:04:55 PM
Nate, your site is freaking awesome, its EXTREMLY helpful
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From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/23/2004 3:40:56 PM
Woohoo now im in phazon mines with 11%!
The DBJ over the gate really wasnt that hard. It took me maybe 15 minutes to be able to do it relatively consistantly. The trick is to place bombs 2 and 3 very close together (timewise). Then, bomb 3 will send you up before you lose any momentum from bomb 2 sending you up. So you want to lay bomb to Just about when bomb 1 explodes.

Unless everybody already knows this and im wasting my time typing...
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~BtT-3:39.55~~HRC-53370.x~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/23/2004 3:47:05 PM
yep. but it still helps almost everyone to see it written again from time to time :)

does anyone have a video of the tbj to escape hall of elders?
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/23/2004 4:15:06 PM
Hey a good Btt player in the SB topic! To BartendorSparky, I've been trying to get ahold of vids of all the records in Btt for the opening of a new section of the Speed Demos Archive, but my attempts to get vids in the Btt topic have been mostly ignored. Can you help ?
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/23/2004 4:23:32 PM
see if marth1 can send you some of his BtT vids. I know you'll definitely want his new Jiggly score O_O

there's also a guy named gamepro there who has a whole huge list of inter and beginner vids, but some of the inter ones are pro quality. you can find his AIM SN in his profile in the pro topic on the SSBM board, but if you can't find it, sparky should have it, or you could just IM me >_>
I've got some nice vids I downloaded of joakim glantz's site, but I don't know whose they are so I don't think I should send them.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/23/2004 4:57:14 PM
well, most of the record times dont have videos, just videos of times near the records (aside from fox and Dr. Mario). I have videos that are around .2 tops away from the records. But like nitetrain, im not sure who they are all by. If that doesnt matter, ill send them to you...and stuff.
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~BtT-3:39.55~~HRC-53370.x~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: StylishSaiyamanXin | Posted: 1/23/2004 5:30:07 PM
My new alt has been set up.

Here's the Hall of Elders TBJ video: http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/hall_of_elders_tbj.avi
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Is N10sb2002
From: MrGuru | Posted: 1/23/2004 8:12:37 PM
Dude, -2 Karma?! That's freaking awesome.

That is a nice vid, also.
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One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. - Iosef Stalin
My board: /boards/gentopic.asp?board=2947
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/23/2004 9:15:16 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: ChaffReaper | Posted: 1/23/2004 9:23:11 PM
Maybe because you use links to m4p files instead of mp4 files and end up sending everybody to Chozo Elevator Crash page.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/23/2004 9:33:17 PM
404'D


>_< oh well >_>
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/23/2004 9:49:43 PM
/me slaps Chaff

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/hall_of_elders_3bj.mp4

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/hall_of_elders_tbj.mp4

happy now? ;p

sheesh you guys are picky

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: Radix37 | Posted: 1/23/2004 10:15:41 PM
most of the record times dont have videos

And the times are trusted? For the opening of the page I'll be happy with anything that's close to the record, and then hopefully with a records page set up that doesn't have the actual records, people will make better vids. I'm currently at my parent's house for the weekend so I can't get the files until Monday, but the best way for me to get them would be is if you stopped by our IRC chat, is that possible for you?
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Metroid Prime record holder: Normal: any% - 1:19 100% - 1:37 Hard: any% - 1:45 100% - 1:58
Videos of 1:37 at http://planetquake.com/sda/mp/
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/24/2004 1:06:40 PM
Well, most of the time they are trusted, if the person who gets them can prove that they cannot make any videos. And the little chat thing on www.metoid2002.com is the irc chat right? Cause ill be there awhile tommarow if it is.
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~BtT-3:39.55~~HRC-53370.x~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/24/2004 7:28:58 PM
NTSC Any% Normal = 1:32 (39%)

What happened to 1:30? For one thing, I thought it would take about 3 minutes to get back to the ship from MQB... it took almost 4. Also, I took a less-than-perfect Ridley fight. So whatever.
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/24/2004 7:32:24 PM
Oh... I can't provide any sort of video proof, but I have a list of items and save times if that's okay...
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/24/2004 9:25:19 PM
list away >_>
and a detailed strat of how you beat every significant room ie what happened against Ridley, omega pirate, Phazon elite, Geo Core, PPC, impact crater, blah blah blah that's good enough for me but I dunno about anyone else <_< of course that's mostly because I can't compete anyway but meh :/
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Alec 85 | Posted: 1/25/2004 12:10:46 PM
I have now seen practically every vid available on Metroid2002 & one thing have occurred to me. When will we get some nice 100% run of Metroid Fusion? There's only 2 runs available atm there. And where are the PAL runs of MP? =) I'd love to see a fast 100%/low% of MP PAL.

Are they coming at all?
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/25/2004 12:54:07 PM
Hey, I made a topic about the X-Ray Visor, and how it can be skipped. Anyone up for the challenge of a 21 percent?
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So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/25/2004 1:19:26 PM
You can't damage Omega Pirate without X-Ray visor equipped, and you need to kill Omega Pirate to get the Phazon Beam to kill Metroid Prime's second form.
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"Try varying the timing as you drop Bombs to reach even greater heights." - Metroid Prime Instruction Booklet
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From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/25/2004 5:23:06 PM
speaking of vids on m2k2, are there ANY MP vids of hard mode? from what I've seen, stratigy is a bit different because you have to account for the increased amount of damage you take and have to deliver, but there don't seem to be any...
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/25/2004 11:38:21 PM
woah, Life Grove has just gotten wierder by the minute o_O

a few days ago I was screwing around and casually found a way to spin the life grove spinner w/o boost, using the same meathod as the spinner in geo core. then I went back later, just went straight into the spinner, and it went. then I did it a third time, but nothing worked until I went in as I hit the left edge of the spinner, giveing me extra artifical spin, and causing the spinner to raise EVEN THOUGH I WAS NEVER FULLY SUCKED INTO THE SPINNER. talk about weird. I didn't do any sort of life grove dance or anything. just straight in.

so if anyone was wondering, it appears that the spinner in life grove spins because you have to trick the game into thinking that you're spinning even though you aren't. so... you don't have to use the "life grove dance".

I've just been hearing things about it being hard and doing it easily so I checked it out so nobody tell me about that spinner anymore >_> <_<

I highly doubt this is new at all, (though it is according to nate's site >_>) but if it is just try it yourself or something. because its weird.

and ug, I'm TIRED of doing life grove tunnel w/o boost x_X
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Cecil182 | Posted: 1/26/2004 4:12:31 AM
I found a easier way to do the arbortuim.... ( the big tree on the way to fight flaahgra)....
well just use the video on m2k2 to get to the top but at the top if you suck at doing tbj's or the refined bomb jump ( as seen on radix's 1.37) my way is alot easier

All you have to do is do a regular double bomb jump into the top right corner of the gate and it should suck you in and then just bomb while ur stuck to get u out and over the gate..... this is so easy i tested it out on my friends little brother who honestly isnt that great and mp.. ( has trouble doing a L Lock spring jump) and he did it on his second try..

there my helpful advise hope its helps
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/26/2004 10:39:40 AM
Interesting, but what in the arbortorium are you refering to?
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So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: BartendorSparky | Posted: 1/26/2004 11:12:33 AM
Hes refering to the gate that you need to scan the symbol thingsto open.
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~BtT-3:31.80~~HRC-58059.3~
http://www.angelfire.com/psy/bartendorsparky/ ~ My BtT Site
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/26/2004 11:58:11 AM
nitetrain8,

if you mean of any hard vids, there are my parasite, sheegoth, ridley ground and OP vids. I had MP on it, but it was 126 megs, so I took it down because it was up there for quite sometime. If you are interested in it, I could upload it again. It is not great, but it shows the basics of how you beat MP on hard.

just look in my directory:

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: MonsterERB | Posted: 1/26/2004 12:54:12 PM
I'm on my first speed run, and I'm just coming up to the Arboretum/Flaaghra/Suntower section. I will give your Arboretum trick a try. Hopefully it is as easy as you describe...
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"I am here, and the gold is here..." - Hawk the Slayer
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/26/2004 1:35:47 PM
You know how you can domage Ridley by boosting into his ass? Maybe there is a similar glitch for OP. Just a thought, but if that is so, then skipping the X-Ray Visor would be a walk in the park. I'm not sure about MP, but you could probably hit him without seeing him.

Also, can't OP be hurt if you get lucky and hit him without the X-Ray Visor on? I know he regenerates energy, so that would be tricky, but couldn't you use logic to figure out where he is? Like, if you stand between two Phazon pools, you know he'll be at the other one. Or, you could find him with the Wavebuster...

Something to think on for the future.
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So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/26/2004 1:59:00 PM
I see everyone ignored my life grove post >_>
and for OP w/o x-ray visor, right now unless we find some strange glitch, not even guessing right is good enough because we already CAN find him easily w/o the x-ray visor. in hte OP 1 round hard video on the first page, the ONLY time he pulls out the x-ray visor is after laying the powerbomb so the damage counts. go check for yourself. he doesn't ever use it to actually find OP. to have a no x-ray game would be kinda like no boost, we'd have to find a completely new way of manipulating the game to thinking OP is recieving damage :(
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/26/2004 2:05:23 PM
Oh, I haven't fought OP yet, I'm at the part right before him and I'm working on the Artifacts. But, the damage doesn't count if you don't have the X-Ray Visor up? That sucks. Like I said before and you mentioned, too, we'd need to harm him another way. Boost, power bombs at the right time, or maybe even using the Thermal Visor (can you see him with that?) might work.
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So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/26/2004 2:11:13 PM
in a 20% or 21% game where you didn't have the x-ray visor, you wouldn't have the thermal visor either.

and if anyone cares, if you use AR to use the thermal visor on the frigate in the beginning, almost nothing has a heat signiture, making it very hard to see during the parasite queen fight.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: njahnke | Posted: 1/26/2004 8:43:58 PM
From: Adon Idom | Posted: 1/23/2004 11:04:55 AM | Message Detail
Nate, your site is freaking awesome, its EXTREMLY helpful

:)
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Nate
www.metroid2002.com
From: LeCoureur103 | Posted: 1/27/2004 3:18:09 PM
Hmm... nothing new to say, really. But the topic needs a bump. Therefore,

BUMP
From: N10sb2002 | Posted: 1/27/2004 4:30:01 PM
A note on Geo: I've figured out the secret to bomb jumping off a Puddle Spore. You stand on it a second, then morph and you'll be stuck on it. Then try to bomb off it. kip made a video: http://metroid2002.com/kip/puddle_sporing.avi

(Puddle Sporing: The newest sport!! ;) )
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.....unless boring old Iowa gets an AX machine. Yeah, when pigs fly and drop bombs, blowing up mass quantities of people..., Meganium7
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/27/2004 7:11:23 PM
someone comment on my post about life grove >_> ---
"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/27/2004 7:19:03 PM
What about it?

*munches on cheese popcorn*
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So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/27/2004 7:32:11 PM
>_>
summary of my life grove post: you don't have to do the dumb life grove dance thing where you go up a ways then rotate around the lid of the thing before laying a bomb, then hold up right during the cutscene.. and you don't have to get it on the first try.

there. at least comment of how taht'll save a few extra seconds on a 22% run, or whenever you raise the spinner w/o the boost ball.
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: The Keebler Elf | Posted: 1/27/2004 7:48:38 PM
what's the life grove dance?
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So many freaks, too few circuses.
Currently Playing: F-Zero GX, Metroid Prime
From: BoostR | Posted: 1/27/2004 8:38:56 PM
There is a very specific way you have to do this room (at least, as far as we know). After you Power Bomb the walls, head directly to the middle of the pool. Before you get to the water, space jump out over the hatch that contains the spinner. Morph into a ball as you hit the water. Continue to hold forward until you reach the lip underwater. Roll up on this lip a little way, then head direclty back to the hatch. Get on the side closest to the exit and wedge yourself right up next to the lip of the hatch. Lay down a bomb and inch clockwise around this lip (don't go far; stop right before you reach the small ridge that runs from this hatch to the edge of the circle).
Once the platform starts to rise, it should carry you up just a little, then drop you off. At this point, start holding somewhere between Up and Up-Right. When you regain control of Samus, this should move you into the spinner, and it should immediately start spinning like the spinner in Geothermal Core. If it doesn't work on the first try, it can still be done, but no one knows how exactly.

copied and pasted from m2002 ;)

As for nitetrain's method, I tried for a little, but couldn't seem to get anything...
Do you really think they would have made this so complicated without thouroughly testing it first? I don't doubt that you got it to work, though...
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/27/2004 9:06:21 PM
I haven't got a clue how I got it to work the first time; it must've been a 1 in a million because to get the spinner to work EXACTLY like geo core on the FIRST try is just... and that was after failing getting it to work the "correct" way, several times.

and for the second time I did it, I was a little below the spinner:

...(@)<---spinner
.........<--- opening directly to the bottom of the spinner drawing.
.....* <---- me

I was a little closer than taht though, maybe 2/3 that distance, anyway, I just held straight up, and went right in. first try. I must've slipped w/ my finger a bit though, because I went up and hit where the left parenthasis is on that ACSII, and then went in.

the third time.. well, :P I failed miserably for about 10 minutes trying to get it like the geo spinner before trying to come in at an angle. I actually hit the same spot on the left parenthasis, and I spun rapidly in the spinner as it.. er.. spun, but the strange thing was, I was offset in the spinner to the left side. weird.

anyway, I hoped it helped. I seriously suggest someone check it, though, because I admit that while I didn't even have the boost upgrade, I was forced to use AR to get unlimited bombs to do an infinite bomb jump out of life grove tunnel :(

but I did raise it w/o the boost or any AR codes in another file, but I had the boost powerup at the time, I just figured that it would be cool to spin it w/o boost. that was the first time I did it.

it might take awhile, though. It seems to be kinda like the great tree hall, you have to really learn how to do it. I jsut happened to stumble over it twice in a row easily :/

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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: GameCube04 | Posted: 1/27/2004 11:00:09 PM
Well I was trying Life Grove today and managed to activate the spinner without being fully sucked in, like nitetrain8 mentioned. I did the life grove dance as usual, and held upright as the spinner raised. When I regained control of Samus, she went upright but got stuck on the left side of the slot, and strangely, the spinner activated o_O

I still have not been able to activate the spinner using the method nitetrain said he did. I'm not sure what you are doing differently than I am. I still think the only possible way is with the life grove dance.
From: nitetrain8 | Posted: 1/28/2004 12:09:34 AM
well, are you hitting the edge of the spinner when you went in w/o the life grove dance? that's what happened every time for me. for some reason, I ended up hitting the edge of the spinner.. giving me spin... I'll check it out again. later.

I'd ask who has the next topic but since its not like I would even be close to being able to make it, I won't bother >_> ya know, if we can expand on what allows life grove to work like this, it might be possible to apply this to geo and tremendously simplify a 22% game... but that would be unlikely. *knocks on wood*
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"You can't imagine how AWESOME 'view own posting history' is. IT LETS YOU VIEW YOUR POSTING HISTORY!!!"-Cybermg
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/28/2004 12:15:49 AM
guys...can you hold off posting for a bit? I was asked to do v7 but I need to talk to someone first so please hold off your post till I say it is ok? I do not mean to stop info on SBing..but it is important.

Much appreciated, thanks.

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: MetroidMarty | Posted: 1/28/2004 4:27:04 AM
That space jump first thing is awesome. It makes the game so much quicker.
From: MetroidMarty | Posted: 1/28/2004 4:36:32 AM
I made it up to metaridley on hard with one energy tank. Phew! That hombre is seriously a pain in the buns. It's gonna take me so many more tries to beat him, cuz I don't have charge beam.
From: MetroidMarty | Posted: 1/28/2004 4:47:40 AM
Ah, he beat me again.

hey has anyone found a way to trigger the ridley fight without requiring the possession of all 12 artifacts? Just curious, because they are a hindrance to garner while trying to go through the game efficiently.
From: MetroidMarty | Posted: 1/28/2004 7:52:04 AM
Hey does anyone know any Quake 2 skins related to metroid. I have never seen anyway and was wondering if any currently exist.
From: MetroidMarty | Posted: 1/28/2004 7:54:24 AM
Does anyone know any way to bypass Ridley's second form. I guess what I'm asking is whether or not there is a way to fight Ridley's first form for the entire battle. This second form is killing me.
From: MetroidMarty | Posted: 1/28/2004 7:55:48 AM
Oh yeah one more thing. I'm going out of town for the next few days so I won't be able to check back here until then, so please don't get mad if you respond and I don't respond back for a few days...

See you in a few days!
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/28/2004 8:13:55 AM
ok, apparanly someone does NOT know how to read...I ask for no one to post and what do you do? post 6 times in a row...

DO not post PLEASE till I am able to talk to someone

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman
From: kip | Posted: 1/28/2004 9:11:30 AM
man i hate the incinerator drone.
From: Tzyr | Posted: 1/28/2004 9:11:56 AM
thanks for all those who held off posting. I was able to talk to him :)

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"In that place under the area where u blow up the thing and its there" - Ir0nman