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MP Fastest Time Rankings and Sequence Breaking Discussion (v2.0)
Archived byXin
| From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:46:22 PM |
| Booya, welcome to the 2nd exicting installement of Metroid Prime Fastest Tiem Rankings and Sequence Breaking Discussion. At the end of our last episode, DEVILBIT found out how to get the Space Jump Boots VERY early. This is what he said: Exact way to get the SPACE JUMP as the first item of the game: 1) Face the save point and the door that leads where you put all the chozo artifacts. 2) Put the scan visor on an lock on to the glowing spider vine, since you are atop of the ship and so far away you can be locked all the time you want. 3)The idea here is to dash jump to the place where the small rock on the ground is. The place youll land is the same one as the first early space jump method. Try to put yourself as close to the ledge of the ship as posible. Then dash jump. BTW, did this without having the space jump but did have the morph ball bombs, but dont think that if you grave it as the first item the game would glitch. So what are the consequences? Will Cal sub 1:30 soon? What strange Seuqence Breakign things can be done now? We'll find out during the next 499 Posts, so stay tuned. --- "I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:48:34 PM |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
| From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:48:42 PM |
| It was SUPPOSED to be VERSION 11.0 --- Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one. |
| From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:49:28 PM |
| This is Amasawa's or Toozin, kip, or possibly even DEVILBITs job, but not yours, I'll delete this post if you promise to close the topic. My name doesn't belong on that list. And LL has every right to make this topic. --- yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3 |
| From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:49:30 PM |
| I claimed that topic officialy, so it is mine. I know what I'm dooing... --- "I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:50:56 PM |
| Toozin: I know that you can sequence break extremely well, plus you're known around the board. I havent seen LL do any sequence breaking that he made up, if you say he should, then far be it from me to contradict you. --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:51:53 PM |
| Toozin: I know that you can sequence break extremely well, plus you're known around the board. Do you also know that I've never completed a 23%, 24%, 27%, or even 29% game? B-) --- yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3 |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:53:53 PM |
| Do you also know that I've never completed a 23%, 24%, 27%, or even 29% game? B-) I have only completed a 42% game, so me neither =P anyways, this is a way me and my friend found out how to get up the frigate crash site to the ice beam door, saves time. I have no clue if its known. 1. Go to the ice beam door and the frigate and look right, do a space jump and press against the wall. You should land on it. 2. Turn around, but dont move. Get your L-Lock spring jump ready, because this is the hard jump. Jump once, then realese your L-Lock, as soon as you let it reach the normal view, Lock again and strafe right. 3. if you made it, you'll land on a small piece of land. Turn around look at the corner in the wall, and jump up and out, you should be on top, now, walk left around a wal, but dont go to far or you'll fall. 4. You should see a log, jump on the center of it. 5. Jump up the river as far as you can, now look right, you should see the Ice beam door, just simply go through it. Its hard, but it works. --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: CALFoolio | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:55:15 PM |
| there's nothin wrong with llcooldave making a topic. anyways... O_O at the space jump discovery O_O --- Metroid Prime- Normal 100%: 2:19 Hard 100%: 2:49 Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520 |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:56:51 PM |
| Was my method known? =P --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:57:54 PM |
| I am not even going to try that SJ --- Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want. Cookies served: 6 |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:59:12 PM |
| Try to get the space jump? Or try to get up the Frigate? If you can get it down, it 0wnz =P Its very easy to do =P --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: DaChampion | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:03:24 PM |
| Gold Leader, I'd like a chocolate chip cookie (sig).... To stay on-topic, is the new SJ early trick an easier than the back of the ship bomb jump method? And what's a dash jump? --- <31>DC Lives<31> To quote madcowPSA, Boot + Ass = Convincing |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:06:33 PM |
| Hi. Yes its easy, the file in the mem card clocks 7 minutes with the space jump. Also didnt do that great in the space station, maybe you can have space jump in six minutes. |
| From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:07:36 PM |
| Dash Jump: http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/dash.html --- yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3 |
| From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:17:18 PM |
| Oh, and NotN00b... http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/contributors.html Notice that LL is there, while I am not. According to you, that gives him more right than me to create this topic. Just saying. B-) --- yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3 |
| From: DaChampion | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:23:43 PM |
| Hm, I might have to try the dash jump SJ method... --- <31>DC Lives<31> To quote madcowPSA, Boot + Ass = Convincing |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:07:49 PM |
| New PAL WR (unless Dave has already beaten it). 2:10 Didn't do an early SJ, but used every other trick in the book, hence it's still slower than it should be, but I emulated CAL's 1:46 run as much as I could until I had to get PB's early at PE. Otherwise managed to do it with no-grav suit. Took quite a few restarts at various save points tho! And congrats devilbit on the Early SJ discovery. A sub 1:30 on NTSC is now a possibility. It's also possible to get the energy tank that sits in the Main Chozo Plaza from the plaza itself with an L-Lock spring jump. Oh, and the "trigger" for the MorphBall wall to come up is different on PAL, it triggers when you get near to the wall, not when you touch the start =/ Arse. Andrew "MP Speed Run Monkey and should be PAL WR record holder" Mills |
| From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:39:08 PM |
| Break it? I havn't touched MP in the past 3 weeks =/ --- "I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k |
| From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:46:54 PM |
| Was i doing a dash jump? I locked on to a still object, and strafed, but got little to no height. --- MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61 |
| From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:49:42 PM |
| Was i doing a dash jump? I locked on to a still object, and strafed, but got little to no height. Dash jumps are used for distance, not height. It sounds like you were just doing a dash, anyway. A dash jump requires you to break the lock-on at the exact same time that you dash. --- yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3 |
| From: zell99 | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:59:32 PM |
| congrats DEVILBIT on the early sj... awesome! that will bring CAL sub 1:30 any% i hope ;) gj LL for the topic! you forgot to post the website's URL though... http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid --- http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid Y'all [...] make sure it's popin' when we get up there... -Tupac |
| From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:09:26 PM |
| Zell, did the site's ftp ever give you grief when you were updating? It seems every time me or kip go to update something, it's down. B-/ --- yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3 |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:19:34 PM |
| devilbit, you need to play more, just like i said before. wow... insane. normal any % can go under 1:30 for sure now, and if stuff like this keeps happening it will go under an hour. a lot of the monotony from the boring first chozo visit is gone now too. if no one is doing so already, i'll gladly play through the game with a missile expansion as my launcher and test it on every missile locked door and thing that can be destroyed by regular missiles to make sure there are no problems, such as the control tower fuel tank and lava lake pillar. it'd be great if there isn't a phazon elite type of situation like there is with the power bomb and power bomb expansions. |
| From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:24:43 PM |
| Wow, time completions in speed runs are getting close to the low time completions of super metroid, if CAL beats super metroid, it could be sub 0:30! On topic, zell, in your site in the 23% game section about the missile launcher, it is possible to skip it. Dont you remember DEVILBIT got the main plaza expansion first? Any ways, things we thought were obviously needed before are now things able to be skipped. The possibilites..., The possibilites.... --- MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61 |
| From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:29:34 PM |
| First of all, Zell doesn't handle the site updates anymore. Second of all, this announcement was JUST made, so there hasn't been a whole lot of time to update. Third of all, the ftp is down, so updating is impossible for the time being. So... yeah. --- yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3 |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:51:39 PM |
| oh also, i saw that post about root cave without grapple. i didn't know that could be done, so that's why there isn't a vid or entry for root cave without grapple at the site. but if it can be done without grapple, that means no item requires grapple. frost cave expansion has several ways to get it, so does magma pool pbomb, etc etc. |
| From: CALFoolio | Posted: 5/25/2003 4:38:10 PM |
| hahah, i suck at super metroid speed runs cuz i suck at wall jumping =\ since i am now cubeless, it's up to kip to get sub-1:30 any%. good luck kip XD --- Metroid Prime- Normal 100%: 2:19 Hard 100%: 2:49 Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520 |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:26:01 PM |
| Okay, I'm going to try this early SpaceJump thing out. I'll report back to you guys on whether or not it actually works (which it probably will.) Wish me luck. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:38:13 PM |
| well, just managed sj first. i'll do it again real quick and make a vid of it. congrats again on the discovery devilbit, this is easily one of the best ones ever. for anyone trying, imo, i found it best to dash the instant you begin scanning the spidervine. whenever i took my time and waited to dash i never went very far, so instead, get on the right edge of the ship and by the right flame before attempting it. then look up at the spidervine, start scanning and be ready to do the dash jump as soon as the scan begins. |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:42:18 PM |
| I'm working on early space jump right now. If I manage to do it fast, I'll try and get some pics up, because I think I've basically found it, just need to perfect the jump. --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:43:32 PM |
| "for anyone trying, imo, i found it best to dash the instant you begin scanning the spidervine. whenever i took my time and waited to dash i never went very far, so instead, get on the right edge of the ship and by the right flame before attempting it. then look up at the spidervine, start scanning and be ready to do the dash jump as soon as the scan begins." Yes, this is exactly what I found out. For some reason, the first few times I tried, when I waited a few seconds before dashing, it didn't even really seem like I was dashing at all -- it felt as if I was only jumping to the side. However, if you heed Kip's advice and strafe-B RIGHT WHEN you lock on to the vine, it is oh-so-much-easier to get onto the ledge. |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:48:23 PM |
| Heh, whoops, didn't see Kip was going to post a video. Can't wait to see it in action, 'cause I'm not sure I'm doing it right... --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 7:09:03 PM |
| Cypher: I know this picture is hard to see, but the thing I'm pointing at is your target. http://www.nintendoinsider.com/site/media/metroidprimesjearlything.jpg --- Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:00:51 PM |
| Hey kip, when you gonna get that video up? I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for it!! --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:28:53 PM |
| Does anybody know all the rooms preventing a game without Space Jump? |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:35:53 PM |
| Kyu: I don't think that no space jump is at all possible. There are so many rooms that involve needing the space jump, with or without the list concocted so far of items you can skip. In all honesty, I think that skipping the space jump is about as possible as skipping morph ball bombs. --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:41:29 PM |
| You're probably correct, however, I thought that getting out of Life Grove without Space Jump would be impossible, but I managed to do it after a few tries earlier, and it's not all that hard. Who knows? I might get lucky in other places as well. Might as well try, eh. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:45:10 PM |
| the rooms preventing space jump from being skipped period (rather than for 22%) right now are: * phendrana's edge (that last bomb jump to reach the plasma door from the floating platform)) * geothermal core (getting from spinner to spinner without sj) * monitor station (to get artifact of strength) * leaving life grove after getting x-ray/the artifact * phazon core (in impact crater) imo, the most important ones to solve are phazon core and getting plasma beam. if both of those can be done, i'm sure the rest can be. people have already been less than like an inch away from making the last phen's edge bomb jump and likewise with the other obstacles. a long time ago i made all the jumps in phazon core except for two of them, both of these problematic jumps happen to be BEFORE the missile station door however. so if some way was found to skip the first set of platforms and start off at the missile station door, impact crater would not be a problem (besides those fission metroids always bothering you anyway). currently in a no sj game, you can reach the mines pretty easily, get grapple and the power bomb, and leave through phazon processing center (possible but very hard to do). the problems are getting some of the artifacts and the plasma beam, since all of those things are needed to beat the game. if you wanted to skip sj for 22%, there are a lot more obstacles than the above list. i have a big list of them all and i'll explain why each room poses a problem if you want me to. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:47:37 PM |
| "I thought that getting out of Life Grove without Space Jump would be impossible, but I managed to do it after a few tries earlier, and it's not all that hard." never mind about life grove then. =P |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:49:05 PM |
| Okay guys, just got back from session with first item being Space Jump. I've been playing for 15 minutes -- extremely casually -- and I'm already on my way to getting the Varia suit. I've gotten Space Jump, Morph-ball (you don't need to fight the beetles), Morph-ball bombs, and missiles (you don't have to fight hive mecha -- just jump.) This is a great. I'll get back to you guys in a bit. |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:51:13 PM |
| Hrm. Please do, if you don't mind. However, if it's too much to type, I can just wait for the list until I manage (if I manage) to get through those 5 rooms (well, 4 excluding Life Grove) without SJ. |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:54:39 PM |
| Hrm. Would you like me to go ahead and list how to get out of Life Grove? Lots of steps to it, but a lot of them are the same thing over again. |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:01:31 PM |
| Okay, Cypher and I have decided there is no reason to defeat Flaahgra and get the Varia Suit. I'm off to Phendrana to see if it's dangerous or not. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:10:06 PM |
| hey, no problem at all man. to make 22% with no sj you'd have to figure out: * phendrana's edge without sj and grapple * plasma beam without sj/spider/grapple * fungal hall a without sj and grapple * fungal hall b without sj and grapple * metroid quarantine a without sj and spider * metroid quarantine b without sj/spider/grapple * artifact of strength without sj * phazon core without sj * artifact of world without sj and spider (you need to reach the bomb slot to activate the plasma slot, which in turn makes the statue move off the ice door to the artifact) and there could be more i'm not thinking of. also, there is another problem. observatory (in the research labs) without sj would need to be solved to make 22%, or else the only way you could get to phen's edge would be through the twin fires path in magmoor. but the twin fires path seems like it would be unusable with no space jump and no energy tanks. the damage you would take alone in the twin fires tunnel lava would kill you before you could reach the part where you dbjm out. there's also the few rooms ahead you'd have to worry about, although maybe you could shoot down the stalactites and bomb jump to them somehow, then bomb jump again and never touch the lava. but you would definitely not have to touch the lava in those rooms since it's deep; single jumping won't get you out of it, so you would die pretty quickly with no energy tanks, especially on hard. anyway, either observatory without sj to avoid taking the twin fires path, or some way to avoid taking too much damage from the lava would need to be found, since in 22% you would not get energy tanks. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:17:06 PM |
| the part where i don't know how to progress anymore when trying to leave life grove is once i get to the end, the part where you go from the last ledge to the chozo head on top of the structure, so you can drop down to leave. there are these 3 wooden things that come out of a tree near the chozo head that you can land on, and from there people tried various bomb jumps, getting extremely close but never quite making it. is this the method you used to get out? if so, which bomb jump technique did you use? also, with all of these new discoveries that use dash jumps, i think dash jumps need to be looked at everywhere again. i wouldn't be surprised if there were more things that could be done with it. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:20:05 PM |
| sorry about the vid cypher. i made it a long time ago, but i'm trying to find someone to host it (zanapher isn't around and cal is dead right now). hopefully it won't be much longer. |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:22:09 PM |
| Kip -- I can host it. E-mail the file to me at thelastmetroid@sbcglobal.net. |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:23:34 PM |
| Or at cypher19@telusplanet.net . I can give you a temporary FTP storage! --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:49:02 PM |
| kip: been working on Artifact of Strength w/o sj for a while. Be happy to work with kyu and figure out 22%. I've got a theory going, let me find it on the old board. |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:08:14 PM |
| In fact, Kip, that last jump is done with Dash Jump. Dbj-morph onto the rock behind you on that ledge, scan-lockon onto the boost ball thingy down in the water, and dash jump from the rock to the ledge. |
| From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:08:55 PM |
| Found it. Here it is. I'm only having trouble with step 4, everything else works. =========== NOTE: There's a variation of the tbj called the mini tbj: Bomb 1 - Wasted This is the same as a tbj, it just takes away one bomb. Bomb 2+3 - Preparations These bombs are placed the same as a tbj and dbj. Bomb 4 - Reload Your bombs should reload, and you place this at the peak of bomb 2. Bomb 5 - Going up This is where the change happens. Once bomb 3 propels you up, place this as close as you can to bomb 3 without overlapping. Bomb 6 - Blastoff Once bomb 4 propels you up, place this as close as you can to bomb 4 without overlapping. If you did this right, you should fall down into bomb 5, and into bomb 6. It get you less than a tbj, but more than a dbj. I call it a mini triple bomb jump =========== To get the artifact: 1 - Destroy all of the cannons at the entrance, and go to the entrance under the bridge you activate via boost ball. Go to the left side. Do one of those mini tbjm or a dbjm. The former is harder to perform, the later is harder to get on. There is a hidden ledge you can hit on the right of the rock column guarding the doorway on the left. Jump up and you'll hit a ledge, it's really obvious where it is. 2 - Turn around and lock onto the puffer that you by the door to Transport Tunnel A. Dash Jump right and hug the wall. After a few tries, you should hit an outcropping. 3 - You will find another ledge on your right next to where you land. Jump there. 4 - Roll into morph ball and do a mtbj (mini triple bomb jump). I haven't timed it right yet, but you should get the height required. Try a tbj if you think it will work, but it's a rock, and the curve slows you down too much I think. That's my theory. Remember, everything up to step 4 is possible, and I have done a mtbj, so this looks like it can work. |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:10:02 PM |
| *snicker* Btw, can someone give me some tips on TBJ timing? I have this insane plan of working on a tbj-bomb ladder technique, and I'm pretty sure that I can do it if I have the tbj timing. Pretty sure a tbj-bomb ladder could reach from spinner to spinner. |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:16:02 PM |
| Spinner to spinner as in trying to get the plasma beam, that is. Also, my problem with the tbj is the fifth bomb. Can never get it to hit. I'm usually always on the ground before it even explodes. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:18:50 PM |
| heh, i figured it was a dash jump if you didn't use some kind of bomb jump to leave life grove. one less obstacle to go then. yeah, a tbj ladder would probably help depending on how it worked and how much distance/height it actually got over the dbj bomb ladder. btw, feel free to come by the channel if you want to talk about no sj or something, it'd be easier there. if not, that's cool too. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:19:56 PM |
| *whistles* Mighty fine piece of work, if I do say so myself. *sighs as he pulls out speed guide once again to update* -Tim --- IRC channel: #MetroidPrime Prime Discoveries: http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid |
| From: Dark Young Link | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:40:39 PM |
| I'm not sure but I think there is a way to make Meta-Ridley the 2nd boss you fight(excluding Parasite Queen and all Sub-bosses). But I won't say you can until I get proof. --- http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=neogin312 |
| From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:44:16 PM |
| Well yeah, you can fight them in the order Flaahgra -> Meta-Ridley -> Omega Pirate, skipping Thardus altogether. --- "I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13 "I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 11:46:02 PM |
| Here's a quick link to the Early EARLY space jump video: http://www.wookieesofwar.com/images/Cypher/space_jump_first_(other).avi --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 11:48:57 PM |
| Btw, didn't mention one thing: That download is 5 megs, and might take awhile to d/l. --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:10:18 AM |
| it can also be found here for now: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~henhen/sj_first.avi |
| From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:45:31 AM |
| I just thought i'd mention that I started a new any % speed run today with the sj first (wow that was some trick). I've got a save at the ship now heading into ridley with a time of 1:37. Cal's time was 1:32 at that point, so I'm not going to be beating him but I'll easily get < 2:00. I messed up a lot in various places too and got tired of reseting so I let them go after a while. |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/26/2003 1:01:01 AM |
| I've been trying for a while to get on the first spinner in Geothermal Core without SJ/GB, and I've only come up with one thing so far. I has some promise, otherwise I wouldn't be mentioning it. Thing is, I can get the heigth and the distance. Hell, I can get enough height to reach the second spinner platform, but that one is impossible because of the distance. Anyway, here's the technique I'm using. Coming through the doorway that comes from the Twin Fires route, look at the wall on the left. Near the end of the wall, when the platform you're on ends and hits lava, you can use the slant of the wall and boost up it, then unmorph in midair, and gain insane distance/height. Enough distance/height to get onto the first spinner. The problem is that the wall is placed at a weird angle to the spinner, and it's really hard to get boosted in the direction of the spinner, and still get max distance/height. You always go a ways to the left. The best I've ever managed to get is maybe about 4-5 feet away from the very edge of the spinner. Anyway, I'm tempted to write this off as impossible, meaning no 22% game through the loss of SJ. Try it out if you want - someone better than I might be able to pull it off. |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/26/2003 6:52:56 AM |
| Hi. Just tried strenght artifact withouth space jump, it just took some minutes to figure out, its very easy. -Go to the first bridge, the one you normally take to enter the second floor of the station (the one before the Phendrana bridge one) -When standing on the bridge, the structure is to your right side. If you notice there are small metal edges coming out from the structure. -You use this small edges as steps, so jump from the bridge to the steps. There are lots of ledges you can step to, so from there its easy to figure out where to jump. Infact some ledges are so wide that you can morph ball and stay atop (in case you want to bomb jump wich wasnt necesary). Youll reach the top. Probably, altough didnt try it, you can skip using the boost ball if you dash jump from the top of the metal tower. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:16:04 AM |
| well, i just finished my "no missile launcher" game. i destroyed most of the missile locks in the game, obviously got all the artifacts, and shot down every stalactite iirc with my plaza expansion, never visited the hive totem either. so i guess there isn't a phazon elite situation with using missile expansions in place of the launcher... there should be no problems. super missiles also function just fine without the launcher. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:41:03 AM |
| ok, here is the new list of obstacles then (just to skip space jump period): * phendrana's edge (that last bomb jump to reach the plasma door from the nearest floating platform)) * geothermal core (getting from spinner to spinner without sj) * phazon core (in impact crater) also, keep in mind whether or not mqa or any room on level 3 of the mines would cause a problem isn't known yet, since we need to get the plasma beam to go there (well, past mqa). i don't think they would though. remember, for phazon core if one of you guys can find a method to skip the first set of platforms and start at the missile station, the rest of the jumps from there have already been made (although it was in a 100% game obviously). also, it would be really great if someone found a way to get through "cargo freight lift to deck gamma" in the frigate with gravity suit but without space jump... if that's done, it would give two escape routes from the mines. the current one right now involves a series of very painful bomb jumps to reach the top of phazon processing center. ask paratroopa or ama if you want to know more about this. either that or just some other, easier way to leave the mines, anything is probably better than the one now. |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:02:02 AM |
| Hi. Going to return the game tomorrow, so wont play again until another rent or purchase. Regreat alot to sell the game. Know that the boost cant be skiped, but wich one is closer: a no SJ game or a no Boost Ball game? Know some of the obstacles but if someone could be kind enough to post the list to no BB (again), itll be apreciated. |
| From: Knux Chao | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:04:18 AM |
| I haven't been reading these topics for a while, can someone sum up the latest discoveries? and is the new early space jump hard? it sounds pretty easy. --- "How do you beat endless melee?"-hello16 Dude! I'm a Legend! |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:15:35 AM |
| problems with no boost: geothermal core (for plasma beam) life grove (making the artifact appear) problems with no boost for 22%: geothermal core (for plasma beam) life grove (making the artifact appear) hydro access tunnel without grav and boost (the current method to do it without grav depends on boost) everything else has been solved. the spinners in both geothermal core and life grove "reset" meaning they move back to where they started if you don't continue to push them, so apparently you can't use the "roll into the slot at a decent speed, then bomb yourself out and roll back in" trick to raise them. also, in the case of the life grove spinner, rolling into it apparently won't make it move at all; it seems you have to actually boost in it. not to discourage anyone though, i'm just saying; who knows what people could find. it's true you wouldn't need to use the spinners at all in geo core if you could reach the bomb slot that makes the huge spider track appear, but it's so high up on the second spinner even a wall tbj doesn't seem to get there. also, i guess i should i mention that you can raise the spinner with the spider track (third spinner) without boost for some reason. just roll into it at a decent speed and hold the stick in various directions for a while until samus starts to continuously roll in the spinner and raises it. i suspect they didn't program this spinner correctly, but i've also been wondering if this effect can be somehow recreated for other spinners. if that's true, then supposedly the only obstacle for boost would be hydro without grav/boost. anyway, gotta go. let me know if that post was helpful. if you ask me, the only items that have a remote chance to lower % now are space jump/boost/x-ray. but who knows how things will play out, huh? |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:44:06 AM |
| "and is the new early space jump hard? it sounds pretty easy." It's by FAR the easiest method yet. D/l the video Kip and I linked to above showing a clip on how you do it. If you want some practice with the dash jump, go off the ship, and look for a scan point to the left, off in the distance. Try and dash jump from that (lock on, then RIGHT AWAY hit right + b and release lock still holding right) and you should get quite a huge amount of distance. Master that, and getting the SJ first is a cinch. --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/26/2003 9:01:38 AM |
| DEVILBIT: I can't believe a couldn't see that. I tried everything up to where I was inches away, and you just waltz on in and do it. That's skill, man. |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/26/2003 9:40:12 AM |
| DEVILBIT: You're amazing =P You can outdo most people on this board in a few minutes. --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/26/2003 10:26:25 AM |
| I must congratulate Devilbit, kip, and kyuinjen for all their discoveries. AWESOME! Can we also get another update? --- Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one. |
| From: jakemrjr | Posted: 5/26/2003 10:40:06 AM |
| The dash jump technique for getting the space jump early is very simple. This is going to help a lot of people like me who couldn't master the tbj. Thanks!! --- Time to change the signature, (still thinking). |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/26/2003 11:28:15 AM |
| Just beat the game w/first item being the Space Jump. I finally broke 3:00 -- this time, my time was 2:57, with 34%. |
| From: Dark Young Link | Posted: 5/26/2003 11:38:56 AM |
| someone found out how to get the expansion without the missle launcher before me... Well good job so how did you do it? --- http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=neogin312 |
| From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/26/2003 11:51:39 AM |
| Game Type --- Normal Mode --- Record Holder --- Hard Mode --- Record Holder any% .................. 1:46 (48%) ........... CALFoolio .............. 1:58 (31%) ......... Gold Leader ............................ 2:19 (xx%) ........... Yoritoki Komatsu ... 2:49 (100%) ........ CALFoolio ............................ 2:31 (47%) ........... funkytoad .............. 3:50 (100%) ........ Varsis Erion Low% ................ 2:58 (23%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:00 (24%) ........ kip ............................ 2:55 (24%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:01 (26%) ........ Gold Leader ............................ 4:09 (24%) ............ Gold Leader .......... 4:35 (31%) ........ gamecubeman27 100% .................. 2:19 ........................ CALFoolio ............. 2:49 ................... CALFoolio ............................ 3:02 ........................ Lazy Veysey ........ 3:50 ................... Varsis Erion ............................ 3:17 ....................... Urazz Izmine .......... 6:50 ................... SteelWingX Frigate Escape .. 4:21.38 ................. kip ..............................4:20.65 .................. CALFoolio ..............................4:15.39 .................. zell99 Points each person holds: (3 points for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place, 1 point for 3rd place) CALFoolio: 13 Gold Leader: 6 kip: 6 TreborSelbon: 5 Varsis Erion: 3 Lazy Veysey: 2 Yoritoki Komatsu: 2 funkytoad: 1 gamecubeman27: 1 SteelWingX: 1 Urazz Izmine: 1 zell99: 1 There hasn't been anything to update yet though =/ |
| From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:20:55 PM |
| Oh yeah, one question: for dash jumps, do you have to have the scan not completed? Like, say I started a new game, and scanned EVERYTHING in the landing site in tallon overworld. Could I still get the space jump as my first item? |
| From: Dark Young Link | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:27:55 PM |
| yea. Just make sure the thing you are scanning(spider vine) is too far away from your scaning range. --- http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=neogin312 |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:59:49 PM |
| For those of you who want to see the dash jump, but on a smaller file size, just download my re-coded version. It's shorter than the one Kip linked to, but it IS taken from that video. So all credit must go to Kip. I just edited out some of the unessacery footage to keep the file size. NO special codecs required to view this: http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/sj_first.mpg (508k) Andrew "PAL normal any % WR Holder" Mills |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 5/26/2003 2:26:01 PM |
| Fantastic! Glad you had a chance to rent the game again DEVILBIT; as usual you are destroying regular sequence with new finds. Can't wait to try out your sj trick; it looks incredible!. Just wanted to chip in my opinion here also that no sj is worth working on considering how many ways around it have been discovered already. Might want to focus on finishing the game without it first before worrying about dropping a %. Keep up the good work! --- Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm |
| From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/26/2003 2:52:33 PM |
| Hey LLCoolDave, you forgot my 2:28 for any %... but that doens't matter because I'll soon have 1:5x. |
| From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/26/2003 4:23:45 PM |
| I ended up with a time of 1:54 and 45%. |
| From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/26/2003 4:54:44 PM |
| Ok, I'm still working on Geothermal Core, and I need some help from anybody that knows how to do triple bomb jumps. Also, don't do it on a game where you already have the plasma beam, or have raised the spinners, because the spinners need to be down. Now, if this first thing doesn't work, then none of it works, unless somebody can find another way. See if you can tbj-morph onto the box that we usually double jump onto from the rock. Next, face towards the box, morph, roll back just a little bit, and try to tbj-morph onto the ledge above the grating thing above you. If you can get up there, then the next step is very easy. Get to a point where the first spinner is to the right of you, then look up-left and scan-lockon onto the creatures up the spider ball track. Dash jump onto the spinner. Also, if you've already scanned those creatures completely before, then they need to be on the top-right of the spider ball track so they'll be far enough away to lockon to. If you can't get onto that ledge up there, jump onto the rock pole that we use to double jump onto the spinner. Get on the very edge facing the spinner, look up-left, and dash jump to the spinner. With the second method, I've managed to touch the edge of the spinner, but since I already have the spinner raised, I can't get up there. The upper part of the spinner overlaps the bottom, and thus, I believe you could get up there if you haven't raised it. The first method I haven't tried because I can't tbj. Go figure. Anyways, good luck. |
| From: darthpaul | Posted: 5/26/2003 6:30:34 PM |
| Ok, i dit the space jump very early. Only a couple things: -Is not necessary do the dash jump before the scanning finish, you can do it whit the scanning finish, is the same thing. -Is not necessary either release the scan (L button), when you get the ledge the rock on the top is blocked the wiew in the release is automatic. -You can skip the intro of Chozo ruins in main plaza, only do a a jump in the top of the door and do the second jump far away of the door. |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/26/2003 6:47:54 PM |
| Darthpaul: "you can do it whit the scanning finish, is the same thing" If you do it when the scan is complete, you cannot lock onto it and move at the same time. However, if you're referring to the fact that if the object is too far away to scan normally, yes, that is true. "-Is not necessary either release the scan (L button), when you get the ledge the rock on the top is blocked the wiew in the release is automatic." Your are grammar not good. Understand cannot. --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:25:42 PM |
| DEVILBIT, regarding Artifact of Strength w/o Space Jump, getting across the gap between the top floor of monitor station to the ledge adjacent to the door to the room with the artifact is the biggest obstacle. That's a cool method of getting to the top you discovered, but it's also possible to reach the top floor as you normally would except using dbjms in place of where you would typically use space jump to get there. If you think a dash jump with no sj could reach the ledge though, that'd be big-time helpful, though. Snoopdigger's looking at a way that seems plausible too if you could get the height, or there's also been experimenting done with boost-morphing off the bridge. All of this stuff sounds promising, but as far as I know none of it's been solved yet. anyway, I realize this room seems to have a lot more potential for a solution in no sj game than geo core, for example, but wanted to point this out in case you have a chance to apply your skills to the problem again. Thanks. --- Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:38:12 PM |
| devilbit/kyuenjin: curious if you guys have any ideas for the no boost problem rooms? it's hard to decide what we should be working on. boost has less obstacles than space jump to make 22%, but they are pretty tough ones (check my post back there). especially since you don't have the game anymore devilbit, you should tell us about any ideas you might want tested for things. |
| From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 5/26/2003 9:32:19 PM |
| Holy Crud! I've gotta try this new SJ early technique! Oh, and on a side note, I finally accomplised the DBJ off the ship turbine for the SJ, even if it was by accident. Only problem: It was on a file in which I already had the SJ! Grumble, Grumble... |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/27/2003 1:14:07 AM |
| frigate escape 4:22:05 (vcr)/4:22:07 (last frame in virtualdub) i know for sure that 4:23 is possible, probably 4:24 also. the thing is it's hard to pinpoint what seperates a 4:20 escape from 4:22+. i was having a standard run until i noticed i arrived at the piston with 5:25 somehow, then i knew i was doing better than i ever have before. and despite a huge screw up that cost me almost 2 seconds i still got 4:22 somehow. very strange. |
| From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:09:19 AM |
| Game Type ----- Normal Mode ----- Record Holder ------- Hard Mode ----- Record Holder any% .................. 1:46 (48%) ........... CALFoolio .............. 1:58 (31%) ......... Gold Leader ............................ 1:54 (45%) ........... Radix37 ................. 2:49 (100%) ........ CALFoolio ............................ 2:10 (43%) (PAL)... Andrew Mills .......... 3:50 (100%) ........ Varsis Erion Low% ................ 2:58 (23%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:00 (24%) ........ kip ............................ 2:55 (24%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:01 (26%) ........ Gold Leader ............................ 4:09 (24%) ............ Gold Leader .......... 4:35 (31%) ........ gamecubeman27 100% .................. 2:19 ........................ CALFoolio ............. 2:49 ................... CALFoolio ............................ 3:02 ........................ Lazy Veysey ........ 3:50 ................... Varsis Erion ............................ 3:17 ....................... Urazz Izmine .......... 6:50 ................... SteelWingX Frigate Escape ...... 4:22.05 ................. kip ..............................4:20.65 .................. CALFoolio ..............................4:15.39 .................. zell99 Points each person holds: (3 points for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place, 1 point for 3rd place, 1/2 point for PAL Speedrun(due to early Plasma), 1 point for PAL low percent (due to early Plasma again)) CALFoolio: 13 Gold Leader: 6 kip: 6 TreborSelbon: 5 Varsis Erion: 3 Lazy Veysey: 2 Radix37: 2 Andrew Mills: 1 1/2 gamecubeman27: 1 SteelWingX: 1 Urazz Izmine: 1 zell99: 1 -------------------------------------------------------------- I hope it's up to date now. Andrew, I forgot about you're %, but i remembered it as 43, so i entered that score. I also added some extra points for PAL gamers, since we loose time on early Plasma on either speed or low% runs. |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:11:53 AM |
| Hi. Sincerely glad that some of you like the trick. Couldnt replay sooner because was a bit busy. About the ARTIFACT of strenght: Didnt know that the biggest obstacle was when you were atop the station, didnt posted in the first message but did the investigation previously. Heres what you do: -Enter the station take care of the guns but dont kill any of the puffers. -When on top, rise the bridge -Go to the edge of the bridge, look to your right and down youll see a puffer (if thats the correct name) flying over a platform -L-lock to the puffer and dash jump. No problems there. Thanks. |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:16:51 AM |
| Hi. To Mr. Kyuenjin: Exactly had the same idea but couldnt find anything to L-lock to. You got to remember that the spider track and the creatures just appear after you hit the last bomb switch on top of the highest spinner. Just got to find something to L-Lock without the spider tracks. Thanks |
| From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:28:32 AM |
| Any way us PAL gamers can get down research access w/out spider ball? Not sure how much damage you take by just jumping down because I was on 19 health when I got there. Don't forget that we cannot get in via garbage disposal either. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:40:09 AM |
| it's something zanapher has been working on. there's probably a way to get down there, but nothing yet last i heard from him. you take a ton of damage from jumping down though; iirc zanapher said attempting to jump through the inside of both wheels will kill you even on normal with no tanks. maybe passing through the inside of one wheel and dropping down just right in between the other to avoid taking damage is enough to survive, at least on normal. there's also the question of if it's possible to fall down in between both of the wheels if timed properly, taking no damage in that case. although that'd be pretty annoying to do in reality. and still wondering if you got any ideas for the no boost problem rooms devilbit/kyuenjin. =P |
| From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:06:25 AM |
| While trying SJ very early on PAL, I never managed to do a dash jump(not the one you release the lock on, just the side step like one) using my scan visor to be locked onto the vine, but never did one. I than went to the next room in combat visor, locked onto a beetle and di several ones in a row. I than went on and tried to Scan locked on Dash Jump at any distance, but never managed to do one =( Looks like this isn't possible in PAL. Some PAL Players, please confirm, or even better, proove it wrong. This would be another huge pal disadvantage. --- "I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k |
| From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:26:16 AM |
| Just tried it. It seems that you cant do a scan dash jump on PAL. Damn. |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:48:17 AM |
| Hiya, Seeing as I have both the PAL and NTSC copies of MP, I will have a quick go and test out whether or not I can even scan-dash in NTSC. Then try it again in PAL if I can. That'll be the best confirmation. Also: Any way us PAL gamers can get down research access w/out spider ball? I may have a solution. You seem to take much less damage when falling through that electricity when morphed into a ball. Try it. I seemed to lose less than a tank, but then that may have been because of the Gravity Suit.... Worth a shot. Andrew "MP PAL any% WR Holder" Mills |
| From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:57:17 AM |
| I just got back into metroid prime about a week ago, and I have just completed a hard 100% game, so: Hard 100% 4:05 That break that I took for this awesome game hurt my time,as I had to learn everything all over again. --- Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want. Cookies served: 6 |
| From: funkytoad | Posted: 5/27/2003 8:31:24 AM |
| Wow...this is quite amazing :o In any event, whatever the any % record is in about a month or so, I'll be beating it, on tape no less. Mark my words, I'll get back into this damn game and claim the record. =P Laters. :) --- ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/27/2003 9:35:12 AM |
| I have some VERY bad news for PAL players. I can officially confirm that SJ first via Scan-dashing is NOT possible. I know this because I tried scan-dashing to the ledge in NTSC and managed it after about 3 mins of trying. Even on the ground, I could dash-while at a distance from the spidervine. In PAL you simply just jump in the direction you press, and NOT dash. So this well and truly screws us PAL owners on speed runs even further. I have no idea why Retro changed this feature in PAL, as it wasn't discovered as being useful for collecting items until a short while ago. Ho hum. =( Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills |
| From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/27/2003 9:44:17 AM |
| "as it wasn't discovered as being useful" Just because we discovered it doesn't mean they didn't. I think there's more use to this jump later on in the game than we intially thought... --- Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL. So many games, not enough time. :-D |
| From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 5/27/2003 1:59:07 PM |
| i think i just finished my last runs through MP (i might do one or two more). Normal Low% 23% 5:22. --- I am smart, but only on teh days that end in "y" |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/27/2003 4:17:48 PM |
| Hi. Sorry to hear PAL players cant dash jump. But heres a suggestion that is worth to try. Remember some time ago tryed to get the space jump just by using the gravitational pull of the ship and spring jumping, getting inches just short of the ledge where the last space jump trick gets you. There are different hot spots that atrack, go for the one closer to the ledge, then jump and tilt a bit back, when reaching the pick tilt forward and spring jump. You can try it like that or away that suits you best. So if a PAL player with time wants to try, go for it. Thanks for the time. |
| From: Green Mamba | Posted: 5/27/2003 4:28:40 PM |
| Bah.... I can't get this dash jump to work. I think I've been doing in right, and I don't have the PAL version, so could someone give me some specifics? --- It'll be like Ghandi, except everyone's dancing! |
| From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/27/2003 4:39:31 PM |
| About the dbj ladder, I think people should refer to it as a variation of the dbj, mainly because of its similarity and similar bomb placments. Feel free to post about it if you agree with me. On Topic: Does early space jump shave off more time than it takes to get? That might sound like a stupid question but is it really worthy to do it? --- MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61 |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/27/2003 5:26:06 PM |
| What ??? We can't dash jump in the PAL version ??? No... not again... (well on the other hand this might explain why I never could do it on waste disposal). But then how did someone figure that the door to the waste disposal in the mines was closed (in PAL) if it's impossible to dash jump to it? --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 5/27/2003 5:47:03 PM |
| AR possibly? Or maybe there's another way through the room? --- "I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:03:20 PM |
| On Topic: Does early space jump shave off more time than it takes to get? That might sound like a stupid question but is it really worthy to do it? well, it takes about 15-20 seconds to get, but saves almost 10 min later in any %/low % and a backtracking trip to landing site to get it later... i'd say it's worth it. i'd like to see someone go after 1:29 normal any % without sj first. |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:08:24 PM |
| But then how did someone figure that the door to the waste disposal in the mines was closed (in PAL) if it's impossible to dash jump to it? You can see the lock on the front of the door. Also, the door bounces back ALL your shots with the ice beam from the back (when at bottom of waste disposal via ore processing). Also, It's weird, but some missile doors only have the blast panel on one side (e.g. Entrance to Flaahgra), when some have it on both (Wrecked Frigate entrance to Tallon Overworld being a prime example). What's that all about!? Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills |
| From: HugDaddy | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:15:19 PM |
| (I posted this in it's own topic, but I thought I'd add it here, too) Now that we know how to get the Space Jump very early (at least for the NTSC version), has anyone tried to make a speed run through Magmoor Caverns without the Varia Suit? I know it was considered not possible before, but maybe some of the difficult obstacles (jumps, enemies, etc.) can be avoided now. Please post any progress here (or in the sequence breaking topic). I would try to be the pioneer here, but I'm moving on Thursday and my GameCube stuff is packed away. 8-( |
| From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:29:27 PM |
| Hug: There was a huge Varia-less Magmoor thing going on about 2-3 months ago, which I participated it. Only montypylon claimed to get to the end, of which he had no proff of and has dissapeared. We had to get space jump to even make it to monitor station, took me about 5 hours to get. |
| From: HugDaddy | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:33:18 PM |
| True... I forgot about getting the Space Jump before trying that run. As you can see, it's been a little while since I've looked at Prime. |
| From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/27/2003 9:21:42 PM |
| I had a lot better luck with phazon pools today so I got a time of 1:52... I even took a pic: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4pmvd/mp152.png That's the best I can do without starting over again, which I'll certainly do again eventually. |
| From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/27/2003 10:09:40 PM |
| Good going Radix37! keep it up and you might beat CAL :) --- Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want. Cookies served: 6 |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/28/2003 7:25:44 AM |
| I HAAAAATE getting back up the suntower, to fight the chozo ghosts straight after Flaaghra. For some unexplainable reason I keep falling back down when I hit "X" to unmorph when at the right height to get back on top. I have started a new NTSC speed run and I managed to get the SJ first RIGHT away and saved again at the ship at 6 mins on the clock. I am now at the save point just before the arbitorium leading to Flaaghra and at 14 mins on the clock I have: 15 missiles, 1 extra e-tank, SJ, Morphball and bombs, charge beam. I'm wasting flaaghra, but getting back up this tower again is proving impossible, yet I have done it plenty of times before! >=( I end up having to keep restarting my save and having to re-beat Flaaghra, over, and over, and over... I'm sure the neighbours will soon start moaning about my screaming at the Game!!! o_O Andrew "Hating Suntower witha PASSION" Mills |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/28/2003 10:07:57 AM |
| How do you get up the Suntower directly after Flaghraa again? --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: z0idi | Posted: 5/28/2003 10:57:44 AM |
| hi, I think it could still be possible to get space jump first in PAL. Since you can't dashjump with the scan visor on, open the door that leeds to the artifact temple instead and lock on the foremost enemy (greemer?). You can then go back the way you came and jump on the right turbine of your ship whithout losing the lock. Maybe someone who can do a dash-jump should try this out, because I cannot do them (yet). (and I'm a bit too fuddled right now). have a nice day. |
| From: z0idi | Posted: 5/28/2003 12:12:33 PM |
| yay, I just got to that ledge using my Impact Crater save game. Which means that getting sj first in PAL is most probably possible, 'cause I don't think my Impact Crater game made any difference. And I almost wanted to punch retro in their faces because they removed scan visor dashing =). I guess I deserve some more beer now. Now have a really nice day, zoidi |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/28/2003 12:23:58 PM |
| z0idi: Awesome discovery =P --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/28/2003 12:28:27 PM |
| I have good news for PAL gamers. Research access is possible in a low% game after all (for those who don't know, Research Access is different in PAL and there's electricity in the center of the room that makes it impossible to simply jump to the floor). You still can go down without the spider ball. To do so, it's a little complicated to explain (but not that hard to try on a 100% game and then when you get it you can do it in a low % game) you have to jump in normal form (don't morph into a ball) and try to go back to the spider track. When you jump in the hole, you must start right of the spider track (not on it) and when in the air use your space jump to go back against the wall and against the spider track (but still on the right of it). If done correctly, you'll be landing on something that won't hurt you and after a short time (depending on where the rotating part is when you jump) you'll fall down without being harmed (in fact you stay in the air until the rotating part is "open" and you fall right through it automatically... This means that 23% might be also possible in PAL, and also that if you only go for 24% (meaning that you plan on taking the spider ball) you can get the power bombs and the plasma beam before Thardus. --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/28/2003 2:19:03 PM |
| Well done z0idi. Your idea works perfectly. I confirm that sj first is possible in PAL (and I tried in a new game to make sure that there's no difference with an impact crater save). You definitely deserve more beer :) And have a nice day too. --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 4:10:25 PM |
| I'm curious as to what the voiceovers sound like in the PAL version of 'Prime. Ever since EGM posted that article, I've been considering importing it. |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:08:16 PM |
| some new vids are at zanapher's site now: http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/ ntsc main quarry to waste disposal without grapple (how to skip the power bomb run by starting off at 4th floor of ore processing, and part 1 of skipping wave trooper battle in low % with spider ball) the elite research wall trick (a trick you need to do to skip the first wave trooper battle in low % with spider ball, after mq > wd without grapple and getting power bomb) all of the crashed frigate room conduits without thermal (so you don't have to look for them) also, how to get super missiles without activating the holo projector in observatory. not very practical but it's cute (and funny what happens in the cutscene and after that). congrats on solving research access and the sj first in pal. |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:29:47 PM |
| Another inquiry: If you want to complete the game without the Super Missile, how would you get the artifact hidden in the pillar in Metroid Prime? I thought you absoultely had to use the Super Missile to destroy it. Am I mistaken? --- Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com Current Best Metroid Prime Completion Time: 2:29 (42%) |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:31:41 PM |
| I hate how you can't edit your posts: I didn't mean Metroid Prime, I meant Magmoor Caverns. How the hell I mixed them up, I have no clue. --- Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com Current Best Metroid Prime Completion Time: 3:17 (36%) |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:34:02 PM |
| 2 normal missiles on normal will do the trick =) Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:52:14 PM |
| Ah, makes sense. Why didn't I think of this? I'm considering writing an article for the website I work at (Nintendoinsider.com). This article will deal with the "Metroid Prime Underground" -- a simple name I use for the group of you guys. For this article, I have the preconcieved notion of interview some of you guys. So, is anyone interested? Thanks in advance. Also: We're adding a Metroid Prime board to our forums. I'm going to start a topic like this one, and if anyone here is interested in making a switch, you're welcome to come. I think you may like it there. :-D Come here if you want to join: http://nintendoinsider.com/f/ --- Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com Current Best Metroid Prime Completion Time: 3:17 (36%) |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:14:34 PM |
| anyone interested in looking for an easier reflecting pool without boost method? it's the bane of speed runners everywhere. |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:39:59 PM |
| Kip: That was already done ages ago. You can SJ up from the first toad statue on the right to the top, cutting out needing to use the boost ball at all in reflecting pool and it's MUCH faster. A video in DivX was made by someone else in the "team". Also, ladies, and gentlemen, I have made for you the ONLY PAL SJ First video on the net. Please enjoy. http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/pal_sj_first.mpg (2.2 Megs) Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills |
| From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:48:25 PM |
| Here's something odd about the 1st battle with wave troopers: If you go into morph ball and then trigger the cutscene, when it's over, you are out of morph ball. <sarcasm>Ah... another flaw made by Retro, americans will never understand gaming...</sarcasm> --- MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61 |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:54:47 PM |
| andrew, that's the current without boost method. the problem is it's too hard to do in a speed run. =P but it saves so much time over doing it without boost that an easier method would be godly. |
| From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/28/2003 7:06:35 PM |
| there's a lot of problems like that with cutscenes, many of them set your position after it's over. |
| From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/28/2003 9:08:54 PM |
| The last metroid: Sure. What so I gotta d? |
| From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/28/2003 9:09:03 PM |
| The last metroid: Sure. What so I gotta do? |
| From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/29/2003 4:50:51 AM |
| Ok then, now I can get down research access w/out spider and kill all of the wave pirates without much trouble. I'm having problems with the 2 power troopers that drop down in ore processing though. They really kicked my ass due to lack of cover. Any tips? |
| From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/29/2003 5:37:12 AM |
| Great, they just kicked my ass again. Both times I was on full health, but they take so many hits to kill. I miss my super missiles. |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/29/2003 8:21:57 AM |
| I just did the main quarry to waste disposal dash jump from a targeted space pirate instead of a scan on the spider track. I'm playing PAL so it's the only way to actually do the jump but it's still useless because of the stupid lock on the door (btw, the lock cannot be scanned as the other ones so it's not a "secure the area" lock, it's a special one). I just mention this so NTSC players know that they still can do the jump if they have finished scanning the spider track. It's really not hard if you use the pirate that is on the roof of the "building" (right next to the spider track) and make him go to the right place (not very hard either). --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: Omega3 | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:39:26 AM |
| Hey Andrew, nice video. However, i am having trouble with doing the jump from the ship.Could you give a description how to do it exactly? |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:45:44 AM |
| Hi. Was catching with the post of this topic. A question to Mr. Kip, you can grab the grapple in a no space jump game and exit the mines, right? Did a quick mental run and think is possible. Sorry to sound ignorant but since never try it a no SP game, just was curious. Or if anyone else can answer will be apreciated. Thanks for the time. |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:50:57 AM |
| Hm, true with no Spider Ball, or SJ, it would be pretty hard to get up Ore Processing --- "When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD! |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:58:49 AM |
| darkdavid, what you can try is to take them separately and from the other room. When you enter Ore Processing, move slowly inside the room and don't go far so that the door doesn't close. Then try to shoot next to one of the troopers (there's one on each side of the central pillar so shoot even if you don't see them) so it comes towards you. Then go back to the other room and keep the door open (if it closes re-open it, it's not a problem). This way, you can shoot one trooper at a time, keep hidden (you can hide behind the wall if you do it correctly) and he can't come too close to you (since he can't enter the room you're in). I hope this can help you. --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/29/2003 10:27:30 AM |
| Omega3: Here's a special treat just for you.... http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime/sj_first.shtml ALL the info you need with images for both NTSC and PAL. Hope that helps you and anyone else stuck with that. Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/29/2003 11:21:00 AM |
| "Hm, true with no Spider Ball, or SJ, it would be pretty hard to get up Ore Processing" that's true, it would be a pain. unless the main quarry to waste disposal dash jump is possible with only 1 jump, then the room would instantly have a solution. (but not in pal; although we could cross that bridge when we came to it... if that ever happened) devilbit: yeah, it's possible to leave the mines with the main power bomb and grapple in no space jump. the problems left IIRC are getting plasma (spinner to spinner without sj), spirit artifact (the final jump to the plasma door from the nearest floating platform), and the first set of platforms in phazon core which is before the missile station. also, the current method to leave the mines is through phazon processing center, and is extremely hard to do in addition to depending on spider. so it's a shame there isn't an easier method to leave; there would be one if someone solved cargo freight lift to deck gamma with gravity suit but without space jump, then you could just go through the frigate in reverse (but not in 22% since you wouldn't get gravity suit; not like that matters right now though). also devilbit, i'm curious if you saw my post about the no boost ball problem rooms and have any ideas? even though you don't have the game right now, you should feel free to say what's on your mind; i bet i'm not the only one willing to test ideas for things. |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/29/2003 11:32:48 AM |
| Hi. Thanks for replaying Mr. Kip, have now a better image of things. About the phendrana artifact: You can get to the very last floting platform? The one right infront of the plasma door? Using grapple and bomb jumps, right? Will be nice is you explain the process or point out a place to read it. Thank you |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/29/2003 11:42:18 AM |
| right, using grapple and bomb jumps. use both grapple points by the wave door in the middle of the room to end up at the usual spot when we do this without grapple. dbjm to the first floating platform, then tbjm to the one next to you but very high up (so you actually skip that ledge in between the platforms). it needs to be a pretty good tbjm or you won't make it. anyway, once you are on that highest floating platform the last thing to do is make the jump to the plasma door. i've gotten really close but never quite did it, i'm sure it's possible though. didn't try a dash jump, but the ledge with the plasma door is just a bit higher than where you start, so i don't know if it would work. it might. |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/29/2003 12:03:36 PM |
| Nice, exactly what passed through the mine. Then when you are at the last platform you can single or bomb jump to the ledge you skiped, since the platform is higher. Then if you reach the ledge....... Ok, have fooled around with lots of the grapling points in the game. Can almost asure(99%) that in that ledge by doing a normal jump while pointing up and clicking L trigger you have a chance to catch the glider and from there ither jump to the plasma door ledge or to the bomb expansion platform. So safe for the door been a plasma one, theres no problem here. Right? |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/29/2003 12:16:56 PM |
| hmm, should be no problem. i'll check it out a bit later if no one else has by then. if that works then all that is left is plasma beam and phazon core (of course ignoring that most of the methods depend on skipable items). there may be a problem with reaching omega pirate even if plasma is gotten; we can't really tell if any of the rooms leading up to him would be a problem since nobody has plasma in a no space jump. i doubt it though. |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/29/2003 2:08:50 PM |
| I have come up with an alternate way for Ore Processing without spider (mainly because I couldn't do the normal way...). 1->2: Have the first cylinder one position before the blue track is lined up (I think it's the default position, and it's when the blue track is pointing to the bomb device). Now you want to climb on the same spot than for the usual method (check the Metroid Prime Discoveries site for the usual method). Since you can't reach it from the device (because it's too far away) go under it (on the floor) and jump against the cylinder. You should now be on a little ledge. From here you can easily reach the first spot. From the spot, aim to the platform with the second floor device and jump on it (the device must be to your left when you jump). This jump is similar to the one you do in the normal method but it's from the other side of the device, and here the device will be closer to you so the jump is much easier. 2->3: Now line up the red track. If you do so, you should have a yellow track in front of you (if you're standing next to the bomb device). Jump on the device and from there jump to the left of the yellow track: you can stand on the ledge here (there are some thin pipes but they don't bother). Turn around and jump on the 3rd floor. 3->4: If you want to reach the 4rth floor, go to the point where the red track arrives (on the 3rd floor, the red track should be lined now). Now do something similar to what was done in the normal method to do 2->3 meaning that you want to go on top of the red track. To do so, jump on the little square (similar to the last picture of the Metroid Prime Discoveries explanation) and space jump to the top of the red track from here. Be careful, it seems that it's harder than getting on the blue track, so I recommend that you stand on the square, look towards the central pillar, aim down and lock your view, then jump to the front and your right (to avoid hitting Samus' head on the red track above) and use your second jump to come back on the track (to your left). When jumping you should aim for the point of the track that is against the central pillar (rotating cylinders) and on the right (when facing the pillar). From there turn around and jump on the 4rth floor. I know the explanations might be a little complicated but these jumps are all very easy (only the 3->4 when going on the red track can be a little tricky since you have to aim for the right point or you'll fall all the way down) so it's not really a problem to start over from the ground. I have done it in PAL so if anyone can confirm the method in NTSC that'd be nice. I personally consider this way to be much simpler that the previous one but it might only be a personal opinion (I could never reach the second floor with the other method...). --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: Omega3 | Posted: 5/30/2003 4:38:49 AM |
| Hmm I still can't get this jump to work...heres what I do: Stand on the ship(enemy locked-on) Move the control stick to the right,then press B and release L at the same time. So what am I doing wrong? |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:35:46 AM |
| I think that you might be releasing L a little too soon. Try dashing a few times (without releasing L) and look carefully at the movement. You'll see that a fraction of second after you started dashing you have a very strong acceleration. You have to release L at this time (right at the moment when it accelerates). I suggest you go to a more quiet place (like Chozo ruins) with enemies and dash a few times, then try dash jumping there (but the problem with dash jumping is that you don't really see if you did it correctly even when it works). Then go back to the ship and try again. --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: kip | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:43:06 AM |
| normal 34% 1:35 very, very disappointing run. not even gonna bother refining ridley/prime i think. |
| From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:48:13 AM |
| Omega3: I think you might not actually BE dashing, you need to quickly tap right and B together to dash when locked on. Not Right THEN B. You'll just jump right instead. Then as Zan said, release L just after you start dashing, I used to make the same mistake, until I kept holding L just that little bit longer. http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/pal_sj_first.mpg (2.2 Megs) Congrats on the new WR Kip. Any chance of sharing your route after wave? I'm not sure on the best route after collecting the Wave beam to get to the Ice Beam faster... Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills |
| From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 5/30/2003 8:17:51 AM |
| wow.... nice find on early sj.... after getting alot of my assignments out of the way... this weekend should be good to go for a run.... prob a 100% normal as per usual.... come to think of it, i haven't finished a run in quite a while... i'm usually coming to thardus around :55-1:00 then just restarting my game.... (people i live with keep telling me that i suck and should do a better run....) although i havent got far with early sj yet, plasma pre thardus i've never done.... i'm hoping for a good run this weekend... btw what are people usually getting for a save in magmoor? im getting 9% with :17... are people getting :15? --- MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100% |
| From: zell99 | Posted: 5/30/2003 12:36:42 PM |
| Lazy- I don't know, kip could tell you that but I guess you could save in Magmoor with SJ and Wild in 0:20 --- http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid Y'all [...] make sure it's popin' when we get up there... -Tupac |
| From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 5/30/2003 1:58:42 PM |
| Zell - getting wild early, i dont bother with it... i find it only about two minutes slower not to (with the route i take in the end on the game) plus sacing a good round only to screw up on that would suck...(besides... i've only got it like 3 or four time successfully) --- MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100% |
| From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/30/2003 2:30:27 PM |
| what is wild? --- Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want. Cookies served: 6 |
| From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/30/2003 2:31:10 PM |
| Atrifact of wild. --- MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61 |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 5:10:45 PM |
| I'm not sure if this has been said before (it probably has but anyway). You can do a dash jump from a targeted puffer to get artifact of strength without boost but with sj (you do the jump from next to the boost device, not the side where the bridge is since I don't know if you can target an enemy from there). In case everybody already knows it I can at least confirm that it's also possible in PAL. --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:10:55 PM |
| Hi. About the artifact of strenght: Look at page 10 of this very topic youll see that the dash jump using the Puffer was already posted, thats for getting the artifact without Space Jump. Got a question, dash jumping with space jump to get the artifact?, remembering that is posible to get the artifact by just space jumping (2 options). The PAL version doesnt allow to reach the artifact just by using the Space Jump? Thanks for the time |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:38:45 PM |
| Well... I suppose that it's possible after all. When I entered the room I went to the top and then since I couldn't raise the bridge (because I had no boost) I thought that I couldn't reach the artifact simply with a space jump so I decided to see if it worked with a dash jump. But since I haven't really searched for a simpler solution it might very well be possible without dash jumping. Sorry for my useless post then. --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:46:03 PM |
| Mr. Zanapher, got a question since you have PAL version. Is it true that the PAL version has better water and rain effects? Wich to see some pictures of that. Thanks for the time. |
| From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:33:34 PM |
| 2:19 is still my fastest time on normal and im in no possition in making a new speed run my twingalaxies 2:46 i think will go down in the books that way :( i will just concentrate at ikaruga prototype games --- Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo* |
| From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:48:20 PM |
| Okay, I just finished a 1:57, 42% run. If I hadn't picked up a couple missile expansions/energy tanks, I would have possibly gotten around, ehh, 1:50. I'm still quite excited by my time. |
| From: DonnyDonovan | Posted: 5/30/2003 8:19:20 PM |
| Hey everyone. Long-time reader (and NTSC MP player), first-time poster. I've enjoyed reading all of the amazing sequence-breaks and, despite VERY limited skills, have managed to pull off a few basics (early ice and early plasma). I'm tearing my hair out, however, over this supposedly "simple" early SJ. I'm dashing, but I never seem to dash jump, and I always fall short of the ledge. I bet I've tried 100 times. I've read everything. I think I'm doing it right. Do I essentially hit right, B and release L all simultaneously? Do I have to stand at the back-right edge of the right-engine flame as far as I can go, or as long as I stand in that general area am I OK? Any insight from those who are really consistent with this jump is greatly appreciated. I really want to do this! |
| From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 8:54:46 PM |
| DEVILBIT, I can't really say if it's better since I don't have the NTSC version to compare. And sadly I don't have anything to link my GC to the computer so I can't do screenshots or record videos. All I can say is that water effects are really nice in the PAL version but I really can't say more. And DonnyDonovan since this seems to cause a lot of trouble to many people here's what I said previously to somebody else that had the same problem: I think that you might be releasing L a little too soon. Try dashing a few times (without releasing L) and look carefully at the movement. You'll see that a fraction of second after you started dashing you have a very strong acceleration. You have to release L at this time (right at the moment when it accelerates). I suggest you go to a more quiet place (like Chozo ruins) with enemies and dash a few times, then try dash jumping there (but the problem with dash jumping is that you don't really see if you did it correctly even when it works). Then go back to the ship and try again. (in other words you mustn't release L when you press left and jump, you have to release a little later) --- Nostalgia isn't what it used to be... |
| From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 5/30/2003 9:33:34 PM |
| Donny: You need to release L after you hit B. With a dash jump, you can release L at any point as long as you are off the ground. Releasing it later in the dash may affect height, but it won't change the fact that it will be a dash jump. --- Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier |
| From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/30/2003 10:27:18 PM |
| DonnyDonovan: A tip DEVILBIT gave me a long time ago. |