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MP Fastest Time Rankings and Sequence Breaking Discussion (v2.0)

Archived by

Xin

From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:46:22 PM
Booya, welcome to the 2nd exicting installement of Metroid Prime Fastest Tiem Rankings and Sequence Breaking Discussion.

At the end of our last episode, DEVILBIT found out how to get the Space Jump Boots VERY early. This is what he said:

Exact way to get the SPACE JUMP as the first item of the game:

1) Face the save point and the door that leads where you put all the chozo artifacts.

2) Put the scan visor on an lock on to the glowing spider vine, since you are atop of the ship and so far away you can be locked all the time you want.

3)The idea here is to dash jump to the place where the small rock on the ground is. The place youll land is the same one as the first early space jump method. Try to put yourself as close to the ledge of the ship as posible. Then dash jump.

BTW, did this without having the space jump but did have the morph ball bombs, but dont think that if you grave it as the first item the game would glitch.

So what are the consequences? Will Cal sub 1:30 soon? What strange Seuqence Breakign things can be done now? We'll find out during the next 499 Posts, so stay tuned.
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:48:34 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:48:42 PM
It was SUPPOSED to be

VERSION 11.0
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:49:28 PM
This is Amasawa's or Toozin, kip, or possibly even DEVILBITs job, but not yours, I'll delete this post if you promise to close the topic.

My name doesn't belong on that list. And LL has every right to make this topic.
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yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:49:30 PM
I claimed that topic officialy, so it is mine. I know what I'm dooing...
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:50:56 PM
Toozin: I know that you can sequence break extremely well, plus you're known around the board. I havent seen LL do any sequence breaking that he made up, if you say he should, then far be it from me to contradict you.
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:51:53 PM
Toozin: I know that you can sequence break extremely well, plus you're known around the board.

Do you also know that I've never completed a 23%, 24%, 27%, or even 29% game? B-)
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:53:53 PM
Do you also know that I've never completed a 23%, 24%, 27%, or even 29% game? B-)

I have only completed a 42% game, so me neither =P anyways, this is a way me and my friend found out how to get up the frigate crash site to the ice beam door, saves time. I have no clue if its known.

1. Go to the ice beam door and the frigate and look right, do a space jump and press against the wall. You should land on it.

2. Turn around, but dont move. Get your L-Lock spring jump ready, because this is the hard jump. Jump once, then realese your L-Lock, as soon as you let it reach the normal view, Lock again and strafe right.

3. if you made it, you'll land on a small piece of land. Turn around look at the corner in the wall, and jump up and out, you should be on top, now, walk left around a wal, but dont go to far or you'll fall.

4. You should see a log, jump on the center of it.

5. Jump up the river as far as you can, now look right, you should see the Ice beam door, just simply go through it.

Its hard, but it works.
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:55:15 PM
there's nothin wrong with llcooldave making a topic.

anyways... O_O at the space jump discovery O_O

---
Metroid Prime- Normal 100%: 2:19 Hard 100%: 2:49
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:56:51 PM
Was my method known? =P
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:57:54 PM
I am not even going to try that SJ
---
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Cookies served: 6
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/25/2003 12:59:12 PM
Try to get the space jump? Or try to get up the Frigate? If you can get it down, it 0wnz =P Its very easy to do =P
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: DaChampion | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:03:24 PM
Gold Leader, I'd like a chocolate chip cookie (sig)....

To stay on-topic, is the new SJ early trick an easier than the back of the ship bomb jump method? And what's a dash jump?
---
<31>DC Lives<31>
To quote madcowPSA, Boot + Ass = Convincing
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:06:33 PM
Hi.

Yes its easy, the file in the mem card clocks 7 minutes with the space jump. Also didnt do that great in the space station, maybe you can have space jump in six minutes.
From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:07:36 PM
Dash Jump: http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/dash.html
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:17:18 PM
Oh, and NotN00b...

http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/contributors.html

Notice that LL is there, while I am not. According to you, that gives him more right than me to create this topic.

Just saying. B-)
---
yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
From: DaChampion | Posted: 5/25/2003 1:23:43 PM
Hm, I might have to try the dash jump SJ method...
---
<31>DC Lives<31>
To quote madcowPSA, Boot + Ass = Convincing
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:07:49 PM
New PAL WR (unless Dave has already beaten it).

2:10

Didn't do an early SJ, but used every other trick in the book, hence it's still slower than it should be, but I emulated CAL's 1:46 run as much as I could until I had to get PB's early at PE. Otherwise managed to do it with no-grav suit.

Took quite a few restarts at various save points tho!

And congrats devilbit on the Early SJ discovery. A sub 1:30 on NTSC is now a possibility. It's also possible to get the energy tank that sits in the Main Chozo Plaza from the plaza itself with an L-Lock spring jump.

Oh, and the "trigger" for the MorphBall wall to come up is different on PAL, it triggers when you get near to the wall, not when you touch the start =/

Arse.

Andrew "MP Speed Run Monkey and should be PAL WR record holder" Mills
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:39:08 PM
Break it? I havn't touched MP in the past 3 weeks =/
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:46:54 PM
Was i doing a dash jump?
I locked on to a still object, and strafed, but got little to no height.
---
MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61
From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:49:42 PM
Was i doing a dash jump?
I locked on to a still object, and strafed, but got little to no height.

Dash jumps are used for distance, not height. It sounds like you were just doing a dash, anyway. A dash jump requires you to break the lock-on at the exact same time that you dash.
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yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
From: zell99 | Posted: 5/25/2003 2:59:32 PM
congrats DEVILBIT on the early sj... awesome! that will bring CAL sub 1:30 any% i hope ;)

gj LL for the topic! you forgot to post the website's URL though...

http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid

---
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid
Y'all [...] make sure it's popin' when we get up there... -Tupac
From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:09:26 PM
Zell, did the site's ftp ever give you grief when you were updating? It seems every time me or kip go to update something, it's down. B-/
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yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:19:34 PM
devilbit, you need to play more, just like i said before. wow... insane. normal any % can go under 1:30 for sure now, and if stuff like this keeps happening it will go under an hour. a lot of the monotony from the boring first chozo visit is gone now too.

if no one is doing so already, i'll gladly play through the game with a missile expansion as my launcher and test it on every missile locked door and thing that can be destroyed by regular missiles to make sure there are no problems, such as the control tower fuel tank and lava lake pillar. it'd be great if there isn't a phazon elite type of situation like there is with the power bomb and power bomb expansions.
From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:24:43 PM
Wow, time completions in speed runs are getting close to the low time completions of super metroid, if CAL beats super metroid, it could be sub 0:30!

On topic, zell, in your site in the 23% game section about the missile launcher, it is possible to skip it. Dont you remember DEVILBIT got the main plaza expansion first?
Any ways, things we thought were obviously needed before are now things able to be skipped.

The possibilites..., The possibilites....
---
MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61
From: Toozin | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:29:34 PM
First of all, Zell doesn't handle the site updates anymore.
Second of all, this announcement was JUST made, so there hasn't been a whole lot of time to update.
Third of all, the ftp is down, so updating is impossible for the time being.

So... yeah.
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yah, you little, who is also fat, slut - |2ag3
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 3:51:39 PM
oh also, i saw that post about root cave without grapple. i didn't know that could be done, so that's why there isn't a vid or entry for root cave without grapple at the site.

but if it can be done without grapple, that means no item requires grapple. frost cave expansion has several ways to get it, so does magma pool pbomb, etc etc.
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 5/25/2003 4:38:10 PM
hahah, i suck at super metroid speed runs cuz i suck at wall jumping =\

since i am now cubeless, it's up to kip to get sub-1:30 any%. good luck kip XD

---
Metroid Prime- Normal 100%: 2:19 Hard 100%: 2:49
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:26:01 PM
Okay, I'm going to try this early SpaceJump thing out. I'll report back to you guys on whether or not it actually works (which it probably will.) Wish me luck.
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:38:13 PM
well, just managed sj first. i'll do it again real quick and make a vid of it. congrats again on the discovery devilbit, this is easily one of the best ones ever.

for anyone trying, imo, i found it best to dash the instant you begin scanning the spidervine. whenever i took my time and waited to dash i never went very far, so instead, get on the right edge of the ship and by the right flame before attempting it. then look up at the spidervine, start scanning and be ready to do the dash jump as soon as the scan begins.
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:42:18 PM
I'm working on early space jump right now. If I manage to do it fast, I'll try and get some pics up, because I think I've basically found it, just need to perfect the jump.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:43:32 PM
"for anyone trying, imo, i found it best to dash the instant you begin scanning the spidervine. whenever i took my time and waited to dash i never went very far, so instead, get on the right edge of the ship and by the right flame before attempting it. then look up at the spidervine, start scanning and be ready to do the dash jump as soon as the scan begins."

Yes, this is exactly what I found out. For some reason, the first few times I tried, when I waited a few seconds before dashing, it didn't even really seem like I was dashing at all -- it felt as if I was only jumping to the side. However, if you heed Kip's advice and strafe-B RIGHT WHEN you lock on to the vine, it is oh-so-much-easier to get onto the ledge.
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 5:48:23 PM
Heh, whoops, didn't see Kip was going to post a video. Can't wait to see it in action, 'cause I'm not sure I'm doing it right...
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 7:09:03 PM
Cypher: I know this picture is hard to see, but the thing I'm pointing at is your target.

http://www.nintendoinsider.com/site/media/metroidprimesjearlything.jpg

---
Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:00:51 PM
Hey kip, when you gonna get that video up? I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for it!!
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:28:53 PM
Does anybody know all the rooms preventing a game without Space Jump?
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:35:53 PM
Kyu: I don't think that no space jump is at all possible. There are so many rooms that involve needing the space jump, with or without the list concocted so far of items you can skip. In all honesty, I think that skipping the space jump is about as possible as skipping morph ball bombs.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:41:29 PM
You're probably correct, however, I thought that getting out of Life Grove without Space Jump would be impossible, but I managed to do it after a few tries earlier, and it's not all that hard.

Who knows? I might get lucky in other places as well. Might as well try, eh.
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:45:10 PM
the rooms preventing space jump from being skipped period (rather than for 22%) right now are:

* phendrana's edge (that last bomb jump to reach the plasma door from the floating platform))
* geothermal core (getting from spinner to spinner without sj)
* monitor station (to get artifact of strength)
* leaving life grove after getting x-ray/the artifact
* phazon core (in impact crater)

imo, the most important ones to solve are phazon core and getting plasma beam. if both of those can be done, i'm sure the rest can be. people have already been less than like an inch away from making the last phen's edge bomb jump and likewise with the other obstacles.

a long time ago i made all the jumps in phazon core except for two of them, both of these problematic jumps happen to be BEFORE the missile station door however. so if some way was found to skip the first set of platforms and start off at the missile station door, impact crater would not be a problem (besides those fission metroids always bothering you anyway).

currently in a no sj game, you can reach the mines pretty easily, get grapple and the power bomb, and leave through phazon processing center (possible but very hard to do). the problems are getting some of the artifacts and the plasma beam, since all of those things are needed to beat the game.

if you wanted to skip sj for 22%, there are a lot more obstacles than the above list. i have a big list of them all and i'll explain why each room poses a problem if you want me to.
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:47:37 PM
"I thought that getting out of Life Grove without Space Jump would be impossible, but I managed to do it after a few tries earlier, and it's not all that hard."

never mind about life grove then. =P
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:49:05 PM
Okay guys, just got back from session with first item being Space Jump.

I've been playing for 15 minutes -- extremely casually -- and I'm already on my way to getting the Varia suit. I've gotten Space Jump, Morph-ball (you don't need to fight the beetles), Morph-ball bombs, and missiles (you don't have to fight hive mecha -- just jump.) This is a great. I'll get back to you guys in a bit.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:51:13 PM
Hrm. Please do, if you don't mind. However, if it's too much to type, I can just wait for the list until I manage (if I manage) to get through those 5 rooms (well, 4 excluding Life Grove) without SJ.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 8:54:39 PM
Hrm. Would you like me to go ahead and list how to get out of Life Grove? Lots of steps to it, but a lot of them are the same thing over again.
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:01:31 PM
Okay, Cypher and I have decided there is no reason to defeat Flaahgra and get the Varia Suit. I'm off to Phendrana to see if it's dangerous or not.
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:10:06 PM
hey, no problem at all man. to make 22% with no sj you'd have to figure out:

* phendrana's edge without sj and grapple
* plasma beam without sj/spider/grapple
* fungal hall a without sj and grapple
* fungal hall b without sj and grapple
* metroid quarantine a without sj and spider
* metroid quarantine b without sj/spider/grapple
* artifact of strength without sj
* phazon core without sj
* artifact of world without sj and spider (you need to reach the bomb slot to activate the plasma slot, which in turn makes the statue move off the ice door to the artifact)

and there could be more i'm not thinking of. also, there is another problem. observatory (in the research labs) without sj would need to be solved to make 22%, or else the only way you could get to phen's edge would be through the twin fires path in magmoor.

but the twin fires path seems like it would be unusable with no space jump and no energy tanks. the damage you would take alone in the twin fires tunnel lava would kill you before you could reach the part where you dbjm out. there's also the few rooms ahead you'd have to worry about, although maybe you could shoot down the stalactites and bomb jump to them somehow, then bomb jump again and never touch the lava.

but you would definitely not have to touch the lava in those rooms since it's deep; single jumping won't get you out of it, so you would die pretty quickly with no energy tanks, especially on hard. anyway, either observatory without sj to avoid taking the twin fires path, or some way to avoid taking too much damage from the lava would need to be found, since in 22% you would not get energy tanks.
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:17:06 PM
the part where i don't know how to progress anymore when trying to leave life grove is once i get to the end, the part where you go from the last ledge to the chozo head on top of the structure, so you can drop down to leave.

there are these 3 wooden things that come out of a tree near the chozo head that you can land on, and from there people tried various bomb jumps, getting extremely close but never quite making it. is this the method you used to get out? if so, which bomb jump technique did you use?

also, with all of these new discoveries that use dash jumps, i think dash jumps need to be looked at everywhere again. i wouldn't be surprised if there were more things that could be done with it.
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:20:05 PM
sorry about the vid cypher. i made it a long time ago, but i'm trying to find someone to host it (zanapher isn't around and cal is dead right now). hopefully it won't be much longer.
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:22:09 PM
Kip -- I can host it. E-mail the file to me at thelastmetroid@sbcglobal.net.
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:23:34 PM
Or at cypher19@telusplanet.net . I can give you a temporary FTP storage!
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/25/2003 9:49:02 PM
kip: been working on Artifact of Strength w/o sj for a while. Be happy to work with kyu and figure out 22%. I've got a theory going, let me find it on the old board.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:08:14 PM
In fact, Kip, that last jump is done with Dash Jump. Dbj-morph onto the rock behind you on that ledge, scan-lockon onto the boost ball thingy down in the water, and dash jump from the rock to the ledge.
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:08:55 PM
Found it. Here it is. I'm only having trouble with step 4, everything else works.

===========
NOTE: There's a variation of the tbj called the mini tbj:

Bomb 1 - Wasted
This is the same as a tbj, it just takes away one bomb.

Bomb 2+3 - Preparations
These bombs are placed the same as a tbj and dbj.

Bomb 4 - Reload
Your bombs should reload, and you place this at the peak of bomb 2.

Bomb 5 - Going up
This is where the change happens. Once bomb 3 propels you up, place this as close as you can to bomb 3 without overlapping.

Bomb 6 - Blastoff
Once bomb 4 propels you up, place this as close as you can to bomb 4 without overlapping.

If you did this right, you should fall down into bomb 5, and into bomb 6. It get you less than a tbj, but more than a dbj. I call it a mini triple bomb jump
===========

To get the artifact:
1 - Destroy all of the cannons at the entrance, and go to the entrance under the bridge you activate via boost ball. Go to the left side. Do one of those mini tbjm or a dbjm. The former is harder to perform, the later is harder to get on. There is a hidden ledge you can hit on the right of the rock column guarding the doorway on the left. Jump up and you'll hit a ledge, it's really obvious where it is.

2 - Turn around and lock onto the puffer that you by the door to Transport Tunnel A. Dash Jump right and hug the wall. After a few tries, you should hit an outcropping.

3 - You will find another ledge on your right next to where you land. Jump there.

4 - Roll into morph ball and do a mtbj (mini triple bomb jump). I haven't timed it right yet, but you should get the height required. Try a tbj if you think it will work, but it's a rock, and the curve slows you down too much I think.

That's my theory. Remember, everything up to step 4 is possible, and I have done a mtbj, so this looks like it can work.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:10:02 PM
*snicker* Btw, can someone give me some tips on TBJ timing? I have this insane plan of working on a tbj-bomb ladder technique, and I'm pretty sure that I can do it if I have the tbj timing. Pretty sure a tbj-bomb ladder could reach from spinner to spinner.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:16:02 PM
Spinner to spinner as in trying to get the plasma beam, that is. Also, my problem with the tbj is the fifth bomb. Can never get it to hit. I'm usually always on the ground before it even explodes.
From: kip | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:18:50 PM
heh, i figured it was a dash jump if you didn't use some kind of bomb jump to leave life grove. one less obstacle to go then.

yeah, a tbj ladder would probably help depending on how it worked and how much distance/height it actually got over the dbj bomb ladder. btw, feel free to come by the channel if you want to talk about no sj or something, it'd be easier there. if not, that's cool too.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:19:56 PM
*whistles*

Mighty fine piece of work, if I do say so myself. *sighs as he pulls out speed guide once again to update*

-Tim
---
IRC channel: #MetroidPrime
Prime Discoveries: http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid
From: Dark Young Link | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:40:39 PM
I'm not sure but I think there is a way to make Meta-Ridley the 2nd boss you fight(excluding Parasite Queen and all Sub-bosses). But I won't say you can until I get proof.
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http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=neogin312
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 5/25/2003 10:44:16 PM
Well yeah, you can fight them in the order Flaahgra -> Meta-Ridley -> Omega Pirate, skipping Thardus altogether.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 11:46:02 PM
Here's a quick link to the Early EARLY space jump video:

http://www.wookieesofwar.com/images/Cypher/space_jump_first_(other).avi

---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/25/2003 11:48:57 PM
Btw, didn't mention one thing: That download is 5 megs, and might take awhile to d/l.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:10:18 AM
it can also be found here for now:

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~henhen/sj_first.avi
From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:45:31 AM
I just thought i'd mention that I started a new any % speed run today with the sj first (wow that was some trick). I've got a save at the ship now heading into ridley with a time of 1:37. Cal's time was 1:32 at that point, so I'm not going to be beating him but I'll easily get < 2:00. I messed up a lot in various places too and got tired of reseting so I let them go after a while.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/26/2003 1:01:01 AM
I've been trying for a while to get on the first spinner in Geothermal Core without SJ/GB, and I've only come up with one thing so far. I has some promise, otherwise I wouldn't be mentioning it. Thing is, I can get the heigth and the distance. Hell, I can get enough height to reach the second spinner platform, but that one is impossible because of the distance. Anyway, here's the technique I'm using.

Coming through the doorway that comes from the Twin Fires route, look at the wall on the left. Near the end of the wall, when the platform you're on ends and hits lava, you can use the slant of the wall and boost up it, then unmorph in midair, and gain insane distance/height. Enough distance/height to get onto the first spinner.

The problem is that the wall is placed at a weird angle to the spinner, and it's really hard to get boosted in the direction of the spinner, and still get max distance/height. You always go a ways to the left. The best I've ever managed to get is maybe about 4-5 feet away from the very edge of the spinner.

Anyway, I'm tempted to write this off as impossible, meaning no 22% game through the loss of SJ. Try it out if you want - someone better than I might be able to pull it off.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/26/2003 6:52:56 AM
Hi.

Just tried strenght artifact withouth space jump, it just took some minutes to figure out, its very easy.

-Go to the first bridge, the one you normally take to enter the second floor of the station (the one before the Phendrana bridge one)

-When standing on the bridge, the structure is to your right side. If you notice there are small metal edges coming out from the structure.

-You use this small edges as steps, so jump from the bridge to the steps. There are lots of ledges you can step to, so from there its easy to figure out where to jump.

Infact some ledges are so wide that you can morph ball and stay atop (in case you want to bomb jump wich wasnt necesary). Youll reach the top.

Probably, altough didnt try it, you can skip using the boost ball if you dash jump from the top of the metal tower.
From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:16:04 AM
well, i just finished my "no missile launcher" game. i destroyed most of the missile locks in the game, obviously got all the artifacts, and shot down every stalactite iirc with my plaza expansion, never visited the hive totem either. so i guess there isn't a phazon elite situation with using missile expansions in place of the launcher... there should be no problems.

super missiles also function just fine without the launcher.
From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:41:03 AM
ok, here is the new list of obstacles then (just to skip space jump period):

* phendrana's edge (that last bomb jump to reach the plasma door from the nearest floating platform))
* geothermal core (getting from spinner to spinner without sj)
* phazon core (in impact crater)

also, keep in mind whether or not mqa or any room on level 3 of the mines would cause a problem isn't known yet, since we need to get the plasma beam to go there (well, past mqa). i don't think they would though.

remember, for phazon core if one of you guys can find a method to skip the first set of platforms and start at the missile station, the rest of the jumps from there have already been made (although it was in a 100% game obviously).

also, it would be really great if someone found a way to get through "cargo freight lift to deck gamma" in the frigate with gravity suit but without space jump... if that's done, it would give two escape routes from the mines. the current one right now involves a series of very painful bomb jumps to reach the top of phazon processing center. ask paratroopa or ama if you want to know more about this.

either that or just some other, easier way to leave the mines, anything is probably better than the one now.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:02:02 AM
Hi.

Going to return the game tomorrow, so wont play again until another rent or purchase. Regreat alot to sell the game.

Know that the boost cant be skiped, but wich one is closer: a no SJ game or a no Boost Ball game? Know some of the obstacles but if someone could be kind enough to post the list to no BB (again), itll be apreciated.
From: Knux Chao | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:04:18 AM
I haven't been reading these topics for a while, can someone sum up the latest discoveries?

and is the new early space jump hard? it sounds pretty easy.
---
"How do you beat endless melee?"-hello16
Dude! I'm a Legend!
From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:15:35 AM
problems with no boost:

geothermal core (for plasma beam)
life grove (making the artifact appear)

problems with no boost for 22%:

geothermal core (for plasma beam)
life grove (making the artifact appear)
hydro access tunnel without grav and boost (the current method to do it without grav depends on boost)

everything else has been solved.

the spinners in both geothermal core and life grove "reset" meaning they move back to where they started if you don't continue to push them, so apparently you can't use the "roll into the slot at a decent speed, then bomb yourself out and roll back in" trick to raise them. also, in the case of the life grove spinner, rolling into it apparently won't make it move at all; it seems you have to actually boost in it. not to discourage anyone though, i'm just saying; who knows what people could find.

it's true you wouldn't need to use the spinners at all in geo core if you could reach the bomb slot that makes the huge spider track appear, but it's so high up on the second spinner even a wall tbj doesn't seem to get there.

also, i guess i should i mention that you can raise the spinner with the spider track (third spinner) without boost for some reason. just roll into it at a decent speed and hold the stick in various directions for a while until samus starts to continuously roll in the spinner and raises it. i suspect they didn't program this spinner correctly, but i've also been wondering if this effect can be somehow recreated for other spinners.

if that's true, then supposedly the only obstacle for boost would be hydro without grav/boost.

anyway, gotta go. let me know if that post was helpful. if you ask me, the only items that have a remote chance to lower % now are space jump/boost/x-ray. but who knows how things will play out, huh?
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/26/2003 8:44:06 AM
"and is the new early space jump hard? it sounds pretty easy."

It's by FAR the easiest method yet. D/l the video Kip and I linked to above showing a clip on how you do it. If you want some practice with the dash jump, go off the ship, and look for a scan point to the left, off in the distance. Try and dash jump from that (lock on, then RIGHT AWAY hit right + b and release lock still holding right) and you should get quite a huge amount of distance. Master that, and getting the SJ first is a cinch.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/26/2003 9:01:38 AM
DEVILBIT: I can't believe a couldn't see that. I tried everything up to where I was inches away, and you just waltz on in and do it. That's skill, man.
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/26/2003 9:40:12 AM
DEVILBIT: You're amazing =P You can outdo most people on this board in a few minutes.
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/26/2003 10:26:25 AM
I must congratulate Devilbit, kip, and kyuinjen for all their discoveries. AWESOME!

Can we also get another update?
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
From: jakemrjr | Posted: 5/26/2003 10:40:06 AM
The dash jump technique for getting the space jump early is very simple. This is going to help a lot of people like me who couldn't master the tbj. Thanks!!
---
Time to change the signature, (still thinking).
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/26/2003 11:28:15 AM
Just beat the game w/first item being the Space Jump. I finally broke 3:00 -- this time, my time was 2:57, with 34%.
From: Dark Young Link | Posted: 5/26/2003 11:38:56 AM
someone found out how to get the expansion without the missle launcher before me... Well good job so how did you do it?
---
http://www.neopets.com/refer.phtml?username=neogin312
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/26/2003 11:51:39 AM
Game Type --- Normal Mode --- Record Holder --- Hard Mode --- Record Holder

any% .................. 1:46 (48%) ........... CALFoolio .............. 1:58 (31%) ......... Gold Leader
............................ 2:19 (xx%) ........... Yoritoki Komatsu ... 2:49 (100%) ........ CALFoolio
............................ 2:31 (47%) ........... funkytoad .............. 3:50 (100%) ........ Varsis Erion

Low% ................ 2:58 (23%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:00 (24%) ........ kip
............................ 2:55 (24%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:01 (26%) ........ Gold Leader
............................ 4:09 (24%) ............ Gold Leader .......... 4:35 (31%) ........ gamecubeman27

100% .................. 2:19 ........................ CALFoolio ............. 2:49 ................... CALFoolio
............................ 3:02 ........................ Lazy Veysey ........ 3:50 ................... Varsis Erion
............................ 3:17 ....................... Urazz Izmine .......... 6:50 ................... SteelWingX

Frigate Escape .. 4:21.38 ................. kip
..............................4:20.65 .................. CALFoolio
..............................4:15.39 .................. zell99

Points each person holds:
(3 points for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place, 1 point for 3rd place)
CALFoolio: 13
Gold Leader: 6
kip: 6
TreborSelbon: 5
Varsis Erion: 3
Lazy Veysey: 2
Yoritoki Komatsu: 2
funkytoad: 1
gamecubeman27: 1
SteelWingX: 1
Urazz Izmine: 1
zell99: 1

There hasn't been anything to update yet though =/
From: Videogaming | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:20:55 PM
Oh yeah, one question: for dash jumps, do you have to have the scan not completed? Like, say I started a new game, and scanned EVERYTHING in the landing site in tallon overworld. Could I still get the space jump as my first item?
From: Dark Young Link | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:27:55 PM
yea. Just make sure the thing you are scanning(spider vine) is too far away from your scaning range.
---
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From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/26/2003 12:59:49 PM
For those of you who want to see the dash jump, but on a smaller file size, just download my re-coded version. It's shorter than the one Kip linked to, but it IS taken from that video. So all credit must go to Kip. I just edited out some of the unessacery footage to keep the file size.

NO special codecs required to view this:

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/sj_first.mpg (508k)

Andrew "PAL normal any % WR Holder" Mills
From: Amasawa | Posted: 5/26/2003 2:26:01 PM
Fantastic! Glad you had a chance to rent the game again DEVILBIT; as usual you are destroying regular sequence with new finds. Can't wait to try out your sj trick; it looks incredible!.

Just wanted to chip in my opinion here also that no sj is worth working on considering how many ways around it have been discovered already. Might want to focus on finishing the game without it first before worrying about dropping a %.

Keep up the good work!
---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/26/2003 2:52:33 PM
Hey LLCoolDave, you forgot my 2:28 for any %... but that doens't matter because I'll soon have 1:5x.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/26/2003 4:23:45 PM
I ended up with a time of 1:54 and 45%.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 5/26/2003 4:54:44 PM
Ok, I'm still working on Geothermal Core, and I need some help from anybody that knows how to do triple bomb jumps. Also, don't do it on a game where you already have the plasma beam, or have raised the spinners, because the spinners need to be down.

Now, if this first thing doesn't work, then none of it works, unless somebody can find another way. See if you can tbj-morph onto the box that we usually double jump onto from the rock. Next, face towards the box, morph, roll back just a little bit, and try to tbj-morph onto the ledge above the grating thing above you. If you can get up there, then the next step is very easy. Get to a point where the first spinner is to the right of you, then look up-left and scan-lockon onto the creatures up the spider ball track. Dash jump onto the spinner. Also, if you've already scanned those creatures completely before, then they need to be on the top-right of the spider ball track so they'll be far enough away to lockon to.

If you can't get onto that ledge up there, jump onto the rock pole that we use to double jump onto the spinner. Get on the very edge facing the spinner, look up-left, and dash jump to the spinner.

With the second method, I've managed to touch the edge of the spinner, but since I already have the spinner raised, I can't get up there. The upper part of the spinner overlaps the bottom, and thus, I believe you could get up there if you haven't raised it.

The first method I haven't tried because I can't tbj. Go figure.

Anyways, good luck.
From: darthpaul | Posted: 5/26/2003 6:30:34 PM
Ok, i dit the space jump very early.

Only a couple things:

-Is not necessary do the dash jump before the scanning finish, you can do it whit the scanning finish, is the same thing.

-Is not necessary either release the scan (L button), when you get the ledge the rock on the top is blocked the wiew in the release is automatic.

-You can skip the intro of Chozo ruins in main plaza, only do a a jump in the top of the door and do the second jump far away of the door.
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/26/2003 6:47:54 PM
Darthpaul:

"you can do it whit the scanning finish, is the same thing"

If you do it when the scan is complete, you cannot lock onto it and move at the same time. However, if you're referring to the fact that if the object is too far away to scan normally, yes, that is true.

"-Is not necessary either release the scan (L button), when you get the ledge the rock on the top is blocked the wiew in the release is automatic."

Your are grammar not good. Understand cannot.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Amasawa | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:25:42 PM
DEVILBIT, regarding Artifact of Strength w/o Space Jump, getting across the gap between the top floor of monitor station to the ledge adjacent to the door to the room with the artifact is the biggest obstacle. That's a cool method of getting to the top you discovered, but it's also possible to reach the top floor as you normally would except using dbjms in place of where you would typically use space jump to get there.

If you think a dash jump with no sj could reach the ledge though, that'd be big-time helpful, though. Snoopdigger's looking at a way that seems plausible too if you could get the height, or there's also been experimenting done with boost-morphing off the bridge. All of this stuff sounds promising, but as far as I know none of it's been solved yet.

anyway, I realize this room seems to have a lot more potential for a solution in no sj game than geo core, for example, but wanted to point this out in case you have a chance to apply your skills to the problem again. Thanks.

---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: kip | Posted: 5/26/2003 7:38:12 PM
devilbit/kyuenjin: curious if you guys have any ideas for the no boost problem rooms? it's hard to decide what we should be working on. boost has less obstacles than space jump to make 22%, but they are pretty tough ones (check my post back there).

especially since you don't have the game anymore devilbit, you should tell us about any ideas you might want tested for things.
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 5/26/2003 9:32:19 PM
Holy Crud! I've gotta try this new SJ early technique!

Oh, and on a side note, I finally accomplised the DBJ off the ship turbine for the SJ, even if it was by accident. Only problem: It was on a file in which I already had the SJ!

Grumble, Grumble...
From: kip | Posted: 5/27/2003 1:14:07 AM
frigate escape 4:22:05 (vcr)/4:22:07 (last frame in virtualdub)

i know for sure that 4:23 is possible, probably 4:24 also. the thing is it's hard to pinpoint what seperates a 4:20 escape from 4:22+. i was having a standard run until i noticed i arrived at the piston with 5:25 somehow, then i knew i was doing better than i ever have before. and despite a huge screw up that cost me almost 2 seconds i still got 4:22 somehow.

very strange.
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:09:19 AM
Game Type ----- Normal Mode ----- Record Holder ------- Hard Mode ----- Record Holder

any% .................. 1:46 (48%) ........... CALFoolio .............. 1:58 (31%) ......... Gold Leader
............................ 1:54 (45%) ........... Radix37 ................. 2:49 (100%) ........ CALFoolio
............................ 2:10 (43%) (PAL)... Andrew Mills .......... 3:50 (100%) ........ Varsis Erion

Low% ................ 2:58 (23%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:00 (24%) ........ kip
............................ 2:55 (24%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:01 (26%) ........ Gold Leader
............................ 4:09 (24%) ............ Gold Leader .......... 4:35 (31%) ........ gamecubeman27

100% .................. 2:19 ........................ CALFoolio ............. 2:49 ................... CALFoolio
............................ 3:02 ........................ Lazy Veysey ........ 3:50 ................... Varsis Erion
............................ 3:17 ....................... Urazz Izmine .......... 6:50 ................... SteelWingX

Frigate Escape ...... 4:22.05 ................. kip
..............................4:20.65 .................. CALFoolio
..............................4:15.39 .................. zell99

Points each person holds:
(3 points for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place, 1 point for 3rd place, 1/2 point for PAL Speedrun(due to early Plasma), 1 point for PAL low percent (due to early Plasma again))
CALFoolio: 13
Gold Leader: 6
kip: 6
TreborSelbon: 5
Varsis Erion: 3
Lazy Veysey: 2
Radix37: 2
Andrew Mills: 1 1/2
gamecubeman27: 1
SteelWingX: 1
Urazz Izmine: 1
zell99: 1

--------------------------------------------------------------
I hope it's up to date now. Andrew, I forgot about you're %, but i remembered it as 43, so i entered that score. I also added some extra points for PAL gamers, since we loose time on early Plasma on either speed or low% runs.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:11:53 AM
Hi.

Sincerely glad that some of you like the trick. Couldnt replay sooner because was a bit busy.

About the ARTIFACT of strenght:

Didnt know that the biggest obstacle was when you were atop the station, didnt posted in the first message but did the investigation previously. Heres what you do:

-Enter the station take care of the guns but dont kill any of the puffers.
-When on top, rise the bridge
-Go to the edge of the bridge, look to your right and down youll see a puffer (if thats the correct name) flying over a platform
-L-lock to the puffer and dash jump. No problems there.

Thanks.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:16:51 AM
Hi.

To Mr. Kyuenjin:

Exactly had the same idea but couldnt find anything to L-lock to.

You got to remember that the spider track and the creatures just appear after you hit the last bomb switch on top of the highest spinner. Just got to find something to L-Lock without the spider tracks.

Thanks
From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:28:32 AM
Any way us PAL gamers can get down research access w/out spider ball? Not sure how much damage you take by just jumping down because I was on 19 health when I got there.

Don't forget that we cannot get in via garbage disposal either.
From: kip | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:40:09 AM
it's something zanapher has been working on. there's probably a way to get down there, but nothing yet last i heard from him. you take a ton of damage from jumping down though; iirc zanapher said attempting to jump through the inside of both wheels will kill you even on normal with no tanks.

maybe passing through the inside of one wheel and dropping down just right in between the other to avoid taking damage is enough to survive, at least on normal. there's also the question of if it's possible to fall down in between both of the wheels if timed properly, taking no damage in that case. although that'd be pretty annoying to do in reality.

and still wondering if you got any ideas for the no boost problem rooms devilbit/kyuenjin. =P
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:06:25 AM
While trying SJ very early on PAL, I never managed to do a dash jump(not the one you release the lock on, just the side step like one) using my scan visor to be locked onto the vine, but never did one. I than went to the next room in combat visor, locked onto a beetle and di several ones in a row. I than went on and tried to Scan locked on Dash Jump at any distance, but never managed to do one =( Looks like this isn't possible in PAL.

Some PAL Players, please confirm, or even better, proove it wrong. This would be another huge pal disadvantage.
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:26:16 AM
Just tried it. It seems that you cant do a scan dash jump on PAL. Damn.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:48:17 AM
Hiya,

Seeing as I have both the PAL and NTSC copies of MP, I will have a quick go and test out whether or not I can even scan-dash in NTSC. Then try it again in PAL if I can.

That'll be the best confirmation.

Also: Any way us PAL gamers can get down research access w/out spider ball?

I may have a solution. You seem to take much less damage when falling through that electricity when morphed into a ball.

Try it. I seemed to lose less than a tank, but then that may have been because of the Gravity Suit....

Worth a shot.

Andrew "MP PAL any% WR Holder" Mills
From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/27/2003 7:57:17 AM
I just got back into metroid prime about a week ago, and I have just completed a hard 100% game, so:

Hard 100%
4:05

That break that I took for this awesome game hurt my time,as I had to learn everything all over again.
---
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Cookies served: 6
From: funkytoad | Posted: 5/27/2003 8:31:24 AM
Wow...this is quite amazing :o

In any event, whatever the any % record is in about a month or so, I'll be beating it, on tape no less. Mark my words, I'll get back into this damn game and claim the record. =P

Laters. :)
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/27/2003 9:35:12 AM
I have some VERY bad news for PAL players.

I can officially confirm that SJ first via Scan-dashing is NOT possible. I know this because I tried scan-dashing to the ledge in NTSC and managed it after about 3 mins of trying.

Even on the ground, I could dash-while at a distance from the spidervine. In PAL you simply just jump in the direction you press, and NOT dash.

So this well and truly screws us PAL owners on speed runs even further. I have no idea why Retro changed this feature in PAL, as it wasn't discovered as being useful for collecting items until a short while ago.

Ho hum. =(

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 5/27/2003 9:44:17 AM
"as it wasn't discovered as being useful"

Just because we discovered it doesn't mean they didn't. I think there's more use to this jump later on in the game than we intially thought...
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 5/27/2003 1:59:07 PM
i think i just finished my last runs through MP (i might do one or two more). Normal Low% 23% 5:22.
---
I am smart, but only on teh days that end in "y"
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/27/2003 4:17:48 PM
Hi.

Sorry to hear PAL players cant dash jump. But heres a suggestion that is worth to try.

Remember some time ago tryed to get the space jump just by using the gravitational pull of the ship and spring jumping, getting inches just short of the ledge where the last space jump trick gets you.

There are different hot spots that atrack, go for the one closer to the ledge, then jump and tilt a bit back, when reaching the pick tilt forward and spring jump. You can try it like that or away that suits you best.

So if a PAL player with time wants to try, go for it.

Thanks for the time.
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 5/27/2003 4:28:40 PM
Bah.... I can't get this dash jump to work. I think I've been doing in right, and I don't have the PAL version, so could someone give me some specifics?
---
It'll be like Ghandi, except everyone's dancing!
From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/27/2003 4:39:31 PM
About the dbj ladder, I think people should refer to it as a variation of the dbj, mainly because of its similarity and similar bomb placments. Feel free to post about it if you agree with me.

On Topic: Does early space jump shave off more time than it takes to get? That might sound like a stupid question but is it really worthy to do it?
---
MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/27/2003 5:26:06 PM
What ??? We can't dash jump in the PAL version ???
No... not again... (well on the other hand this might explain why I never could do it on waste disposal).

But then how did someone figure that the door to the waste disposal in the mines was closed (in PAL) if it's impossible to dash jump to it?

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 5/27/2003 5:47:03 PM
AR possibly? Or maybe there's another way through the room?
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: kip | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:03:20 PM
On Topic: Does early space jump shave off more time than it takes to get? That might sound like a stupid question but is it really worthy to do it?

well, it takes about 15-20 seconds to get, but saves almost 10 min later in any %/low % and a backtracking trip to landing site to get it later... i'd say it's worth it.

i'd like to see someone go after 1:29 normal any % without sj first.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:08:24 PM
But then how did someone figure that the door to the waste disposal in the mines was closed (in PAL) if it's impossible to dash jump to it?

You can see the lock on the front of the door.

Also, the door bounces back ALL your shots with the ice beam from the back (when at bottom of waste disposal via ore processing).

Also, It's weird, but some missile doors only have the blast panel on one side (e.g. Entrance to Flaahgra), when some have it on both (Wrecked Frigate entrance to Tallon Overworld being a prime example).

What's that all about!?

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: HugDaddy | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:15:19 PM
(I posted this in it's own topic, but I thought I'd add it here, too)

Now that we know how to get the Space Jump very early (at least for the NTSC version), has anyone tried to make a speed run through Magmoor Caverns without the Varia Suit? I know it was considered not possible before, but maybe some of the difficult obstacles (jumps, enemies, etc.) can be avoided now. Please post any progress here (or in the sequence breaking topic).

I would try to be the pioneer here, but I'm moving on Thursday and my GameCube stuff is packed away. 8-(
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:29:27 PM
Hug: There was a huge Varia-less Magmoor thing going on about 2-3 months ago, which I participated it. Only montypylon claimed to get to the end, of which he had no proff of and has dissapeared. We had to get space jump to even make it to monitor station, took me about 5 hours to get.
From: HugDaddy | Posted: 5/27/2003 6:33:18 PM
True... I forgot about getting the Space Jump before trying that run. As you can see, it's been a little while since I've looked at Prime.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/27/2003 9:21:42 PM
I had a lot better luck with phazon pools today so I got a time of 1:52... I even took a pic: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4pmvd/mp152.png

That's the best I can do without starting over again, which I'll certainly do again eventually.
From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/27/2003 10:09:40 PM
Good going Radix37! keep it up and you might beat CAL :)
---
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From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/28/2003 7:25:44 AM
I HAAAAATE getting back up the suntower, to fight the chozo ghosts straight after Flaaghra. For some unexplainable reason I keep falling back down when I hit "X" to unmorph when at the right height to get back on top.

I have started a new NTSC speed run and I managed to get the SJ first RIGHT away and saved again at the ship at 6 mins on the clock. I am now at the save point just before the arbitorium leading to Flaaghra and at 14 mins on the clock I have:

15 missiles, 1 extra e-tank, SJ, Morphball and bombs, charge beam.

I'm wasting flaaghra, but getting back up this tower again is proving impossible, yet I have done it plenty of times before! >=( I end up having to keep restarting my save and having to re-beat Flaaghra, over, and over, and over...

I'm sure the neighbours will soon start moaning about my screaming at the Game!!! o_O

Andrew "Hating Suntower witha PASSION" Mills
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/28/2003 10:07:57 AM
How do you get up the Suntower directly after Flaghraa again?
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: z0idi | Posted: 5/28/2003 10:57:44 AM
hi,

I think it could still be possible to get space jump first in PAL.

Since you can't dashjump with the scan visor on, open the door that leeds to the artifact temple instead and lock on the foremost enemy (greemer?). You can then go back the way you came and jump on the right turbine of your ship whithout losing the lock.

Maybe someone who can do a dash-jump should try this out,
because I cannot do them (yet). (and I'm a bit too fuddled right now).

have a nice day.
From: z0idi | Posted: 5/28/2003 12:12:33 PM
yay,

I just got to that ledge using my Impact Crater save game.

Which means that getting sj first in PAL is most probably possible, 'cause I don't think my Impact Crater game made any difference.

And I almost wanted to punch retro in their faces because they removed scan visor dashing =).

I guess I deserve some more beer now.

Now have a really nice day,
zoidi
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/28/2003 12:23:58 PM
z0idi: Awesome discovery =P
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/28/2003 12:28:27 PM
I have good news for PAL gamers. Research access is possible in a low% game after all (for those who don't know, Research Access is different in PAL and there's electricity in the center of the room that makes it impossible to simply jump to the floor).

You still can go down without the spider ball. To do so, it's a little complicated to explain (but not that hard to try on a 100% game and then when you get it you can do it in a low % game) you have to jump in normal form (don't morph into a ball) and try to go back to the spider track. When you jump in the hole, you must start right of the spider track (not on it) and when in the air use your space jump to go back against the wall and against the spider track (but still on the right of it). If done correctly, you'll be landing on something that won't hurt you and after a short time (depending on where the rotating part is when you jump) you'll fall down without being harmed (in fact you stay in the air until the rotating part is "open" and you fall right through it automatically...

This means that 23% might be also possible in PAL, and also that if you only go for 24% (meaning that you plan on taking the spider ball) you can get the power bombs and the plasma beam before Thardus.

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/28/2003 2:19:03 PM
Well done z0idi. Your idea works perfectly. I confirm that sj first is possible in PAL (and I tried in a new game to make sure that there's no difference with an impact crater save).

You definitely deserve more beer :)
And have a nice day too.
---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 4:10:25 PM
I'm curious as to what the voiceovers sound like in the PAL version of 'Prime. Ever since EGM posted that article, I've been considering importing it.
From: kip | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:08:16 PM
some new vids are at zanapher's site now:

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

ntsc main quarry to waste disposal without grapple (how to skip the power bomb run by starting off at 4th floor of ore processing, and part 1 of skipping wave trooper battle in low % with spider ball)

the elite research wall trick (a trick you need to do to skip the first wave trooper battle in low % with spider ball, after mq > wd without grapple and getting power bomb)

all of the crashed frigate room conduits without thermal (so you don't have to look for them)

also, how to get super missiles without activating the holo projector in observatory. not very practical but it's cute (and funny what happens in the cutscene and after that).

congrats on solving research access and the sj first in pal.
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:29:47 PM
Another inquiry: If you want to complete the game without the Super Missile, how would you get the artifact hidden in the pillar in Metroid Prime? I thought you absoultely had to use the Super Missile to destroy it. Am I mistaken?

---
Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com
Current Best Metroid Prime Completion Time: 2:29 (42%)
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:31:41 PM
I hate how you can't edit your posts: I didn't mean Metroid Prime, I meant Magmoor Caverns. How the hell I mixed them up, I have no clue.

---
Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com
Current Best Metroid Prime Completion Time: 3:17 (36%)
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:34:02 PM
2 normal missiles on normal will do the trick =)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 5:52:14 PM
Ah, makes sense. Why didn't I think of this?

I'm considering writing an article for the website I work at (Nintendoinsider.com). This article will deal with the "Metroid Prime Underground" -- a simple name I use for the group of you guys. For this article, I have the preconcieved notion of interview some of you guys. So, is anyone interested?

Thanks in advance.

Also: We're adding a Metroid Prime board to our forums. I'm going to start a topic like this one, and if anyone here is interested in making a switch, you're welcome to come. I think you may like it there. :-D Come here if you want to join:

http://nintendoinsider.com/f/

---
Matt Hadick | Senior Gamecube Editor, NintendoInsider.com
Current Best Metroid Prime Completion Time: 3:17 (36%)
From: kip | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:14:34 PM
anyone interested in looking for an easier reflecting pool without boost method? it's the bane of speed runners everywhere.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:39:59 PM
Kip: That was already done ages ago. You can SJ up from the first toad statue on the right to the top, cutting out needing to use the boost ball at all in reflecting pool and it's MUCH faster. A video in DivX was made by someone else in the "team".

Also, ladies, and gentlemen, I have made for you the ONLY PAL SJ First video on the net. Please enjoy.

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/pal_sj_first.mpg (2.2 Megs)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:48:25 PM
Here's something odd about the 1st battle with wave troopers: If you go into morph ball and then trigger the cutscene, when it's over, you are out of morph ball.

<sarcasm>Ah... another flaw made by Retro, americans will never understand gaming...</sarcasm>
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MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61
From: kip | Posted: 5/28/2003 6:54:47 PM
andrew, that's the current without boost method. the problem is it's too hard to do in a speed run. =P

but it saves so much time over doing it without boost that an easier method would be godly.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 5/28/2003 7:06:35 PM
there's a lot of problems like that with cutscenes, many of them set your position after it's over.
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/28/2003 9:08:54 PM
The last metroid: Sure. What so I gotta d?
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 5/28/2003 9:09:03 PM
The last metroid: Sure. What so I gotta do?
From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/29/2003 4:50:51 AM
Ok then, now I can get down research access w/out spider and kill all of the wave pirates without much trouble. I'm having problems with the 2 power troopers that drop down in ore processing though.

They really kicked my ass due to lack of cover.

Any tips?
From: darkdavid | Posted: 5/29/2003 5:37:12 AM
Great, they just kicked my ass again. Both times I was on full health, but they take so many hits to kill.

I miss my super missiles.
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/29/2003 8:21:57 AM
I just did the main quarry to waste disposal dash jump from a targeted space pirate instead of a scan on the spider track.

I'm playing PAL so it's the only way to actually do the jump but it's still useless because of the stupid lock on the door (btw, the lock cannot be scanned as the other ones so it's not a "secure the area" lock, it's a special one). I just mention this so NTSC players know that they still can do the jump if they have finished scanning the spider track. It's really not hard if you use the pirate that is on the roof of the "building" (right next to the spider track) and make him go to the right place (not very hard either).

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Omega3 | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:39:26 AM
Hey Andrew, nice video. However, i am having trouble with doing the jump from the ship.Could you give a description how to do it exactly?
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:45:44 AM
Hi.

Was catching with the post of this topic.
A question to Mr. Kip, you can grab the grapple in a no space jump game and exit the mines, right? Did a quick mental run and think is possible.

Sorry to sound ignorant but since never try it a no SP game, just was curious. Or if anyone else can answer will be apreciated.

Thanks for the time.
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:50:57 AM
Hm, true with no Spider Ball, or SJ, it would be pretty hard to get up Ore Processing
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/29/2003 9:58:49 AM
darkdavid, what you can try is to take them separately and from the other room.
When you enter Ore Processing, move slowly inside the room and don't go far so that the door doesn't close. Then try to shoot next to one of the troopers (there's one on each side of the central pillar so shoot even if you don't see them) so it comes towards you. Then go back to the other room and keep the door open (if it closes re-open it, it's not a problem). This way, you can shoot one trooper at a time, keep hidden (you can hide behind the wall if you do it correctly) and he can't come too close to you (since he can't enter the room you're in).

I hope this can help you.

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/29/2003 10:27:30 AM
Omega3: Here's a special treat just for you....

http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime/sj_first.shtml

ALL the info you need with images for both NTSC and PAL.

Hope that helps you and anyone else stuck with that.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: kip | Posted: 5/29/2003 11:21:00 AM
"Hm, true with no Spider Ball, or SJ, it would be pretty hard to get up Ore Processing"

that's true, it would be a pain. unless the main quarry to waste disposal dash jump is possible with only 1 jump, then the room would instantly have a solution. (but not in pal; although we could cross that bridge when we came to it... if that ever happened)

devilbit: yeah, it's possible to leave the mines with the main power bomb and grapple in no space jump. the problems left IIRC are getting plasma (spinner to spinner without sj), spirit artifact (the final jump to the plasma door from the nearest floating platform), and the first set of platforms in phazon core which is before the missile station.

also, the current method to leave the mines is through phazon processing center, and is extremely hard to do in addition to depending on spider. so it's a shame there isn't an easier method to leave; there would be one if someone solved cargo freight lift to deck gamma with gravity suit but without space jump, then you could just go through the frigate in reverse (but not in 22% since you wouldn't get gravity suit; not like that matters right now though).

also devilbit, i'm curious if you saw my post about the no boost ball problem rooms and have any ideas? even though you don't have the game right now, you should feel free to say what's on your mind; i bet i'm not the only one willing to test ideas for things.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/29/2003 11:32:48 AM
Hi.

Thanks for replaying Mr. Kip, have now a better image of things.

About the phendrana artifact: You can get to the very last floting platform? The one right infront of the plasma door?
Using grapple and bomb jumps, right? Will be nice is you explain the process or point out a place to read it.

Thank you
From: kip | Posted: 5/29/2003 11:42:18 AM
right, using grapple and bomb jumps. use both grapple points by the wave door in the middle of the room to end up at the usual spot when we do this without grapple. dbjm to the first floating platform, then tbjm to the one next to you but very high up (so you actually skip that ledge in between the platforms).

it needs to be a pretty good tbjm or you won't make it. anyway, once you are on that highest floating platform the last thing to do is make the jump to the plasma door. i've gotten really close but never quite did it, i'm sure it's possible though. didn't try a dash jump, but the ledge with the plasma door is just a bit higher than where you start, so i don't know if it would work. it might.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/29/2003 12:03:36 PM
Nice, exactly what passed through the mine. Then when you are at the last platform you can single or bomb jump to the ledge you skiped, since the platform is higher.

Then if you reach the ledge....... Ok, have fooled around with lots of the grapling points in the game. Can almost asure(99%) that in that ledge by doing a normal jump while pointing up and clicking L trigger you have a chance to catch the glider and from there ither jump to the plasma door ledge or to the bomb expansion platform.

So safe for the door been a plasma one, theres no problem here. Right?
From: kip | Posted: 5/29/2003 12:16:56 PM
hmm, should be no problem. i'll check it out a bit later if no one else has by then. if that works then all that is left is plasma beam and phazon core (of course ignoring that most of the methods depend on skipable items).

there may be a problem with reaching omega pirate even if plasma is gotten; we can't really tell if any of the rooms leading up to him would be a problem since nobody has plasma in a no space jump. i doubt it though.
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/29/2003 2:08:50 PM
I have come up with an alternate way for Ore Processing without spider (mainly because I couldn't do the normal way...).

1->2:
Have the first cylinder one position before the blue track is lined up (I think it's the default position, and it's when the blue track is pointing to the bomb device).
Now you want to climb on the same spot than for the usual method (check the Metroid Prime Discoveries site for the usual method). Since you can't reach it from the device (because it's too far away) go under it (on the floor) and jump against the cylinder. You should now be on a little ledge. From here you can easily reach the first spot.
From the spot, aim to the platform with the second floor device and jump on it (the device must be to your left when you jump). This jump is similar to the one you do in the normal method but it's from the other side of the device, and here the device will be closer to you so the jump is much easier.

2->3:
Now line up the red track. If you do so, you should have a yellow track in front of you (if you're standing next to the bomb device). Jump on the device and from there jump to the left of the yellow track: you can stand on the ledge here (there are some thin pipes but they don't bother). Turn around and jump on the 3rd floor.

3->4:
If you want to reach the 4rth floor, go to the point where the red track arrives (on the 3rd floor, the red track should be lined now). Now do something similar to what was done in the normal method to do 2->3 meaning that you want to go on top of the red track. To do so, jump on the little square (similar to the last picture of the Metroid Prime Discoveries explanation) and space jump to the top of the red track from here. Be careful, it seems that it's harder than getting on the blue track, so I recommend that you stand on the square, look towards the central pillar, aim down and lock your view, then jump to the front and your right (to avoid hitting Samus' head on the red track above) and use your second jump to come back on the track (to your left). When jumping you should aim for the point of the track that is against the central pillar (rotating cylinders) and on the right (when facing the pillar).
From there turn around and jump on the 4rth floor.

I know the explanations might be a little complicated but these jumps are all very easy (only the 3->4 when going on the red track can be a little tricky since you have to aim for the right point or you'll fall all the way down) so it's not really a problem to start over from the ground. I have done it in PAL so if anyone can confirm the method in NTSC that'd be nice. I personally consider this way to be much simpler that the previous one but it might only be a personal opinion (I could never reach the second floor with the other method...).

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Omega3 | Posted: 5/30/2003 4:38:49 AM
Hmm I still can't get this jump to work...heres what I do:

Stand on the ship(enemy locked-on)
Move the control stick to the right,then press B and release L at the same time. So what am I doing wrong?
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:35:46 AM
I think that you might be releasing L a little too soon.
Try dashing a few times (without releasing L) and look carefully at the movement. You'll see that a fraction of second after you started dashing you have a very strong acceleration. You have to release L at this time (right at the moment when it accelerates).

I suggest you go to a more quiet place (like Chozo ruins) with enemies and dash a few times, then try dash jumping there (but the problem with dash jumping is that you don't really see if you did it correctly even when it works). Then go back to the ship and try again.

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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: kip | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:43:06 AM
normal 34% 1:35

very, very disappointing run. not even gonna bother refining ridley/prime i think.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:48:13 AM
Omega3:

I think you might not actually BE dashing, you need to quickly tap right and B together to dash when locked on.

Not Right THEN B. You'll just jump right instead. Then as Zan said, release L just after you start dashing, I used to make the same mistake, until I kept holding L just that little bit longer.

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/pal_sj_first.mpg (2.2 Megs)

Congrats on the new WR Kip. Any chance of sharing your route after wave? I'm not sure on the best route after collecting the Wave beam to get to the Ice Beam faster...

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 5/30/2003 8:17:51 AM
wow.... nice find on early sj.... after getting alot of my assignments out of the way... this weekend should be good to go for a run.... prob a 100% normal as per usual....

come to think of it, i haven't finished a run in quite a while... i'm usually coming to thardus around :55-1:00 then just restarting my game.... (people i live with keep telling me that i suck and should do a better run....) although i havent got far with early sj yet, plasma pre thardus i've never done.... i'm hoping for a good run this weekend...

btw what are people usually getting for a save in magmoor?
im getting 9% with :17... are people getting :15?
---
MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100%
From: zell99 | Posted: 5/30/2003 12:36:42 PM
Lazy- I don't know, kip could tell you that but I guess you could save in Magmoor with SJ and Wild in 0:20
---
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid
Y'all [...] make sure it's popin' when we get up there... -Tupac
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 5/30/2003 1:58:42 PM
Zell - getting wild early, i dont bother with it... i find it only about two minutes slower not to (with the route i take in the end on the game) plus sacing a good round only to screw up on that would suck...(besides... i've only got it like 3 or four time successfully)
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MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100%
From: Gold Leader | Posted: 5/30/2003 2:30:27 PM
what is wild?
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Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want.
Cookies served: 6
From: meeptroid | Posted: 5/30/2003 2:31:10 PM
Atrifact of wild.
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MP Speed Runs&Paths- freewebs.com/serg61
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 5:10:45 PM
I'm not sure if this has been said before (it probably has but anyway). You can do a dash jump from a targeted puffer to get artifact of strength without boost but with sj (you do the jump from next to the boost device, not the side where the bridge is since I don't know if you can target an enemy from there).

In case everybody already knows it I can at least confirm that it's also possible in PAL.

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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:10:55 PM
Hi.

About the artifact of strenght: Look at page 10 of this very topic youll see that the dash jump using the Puffer was already posted, thats for getting the artifact without Space Jump.

Got a question, dash jumping with space jump to get the artifact?, remembering that is posible to get the artifact by just space jumping (2 options).
The PAL version doesnt allow to reach the artifact just by using the Space Jump?

Thanks for the time
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:38:45 PM
Well... I suppose that it's possible after all.
When I entered the room I went to the top and then since I couldn't raise the bridge (because I had no boost) I thought that I couldn't reach the artifact simply with a space jump so I decided to see if it worked with a dash jump.

But since I haven't really searched for a simpler solution it might very well be possible without dash jumping.
Sorry for my useless post then.

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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/30/2003 6:46:03 PM
Mr. Zanapher, got a question since you have PAL version. Is it true that the PAL version has better water and rain effects?

Wich to see some pictures of that.

Thanks for the time.
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:33:34 PM
2:19 is still my fastest time on normal and im in no possition in making a new speed run my twingalaxies 2:46 i think will go down in the books that way :(
i will just concentrate at ikaruga prototype games

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Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: the last metroid | Posted: 5/30/2003 7:48:20 PM
Okay, I just finished a 1:57, 42% run. If I hadn't picked up a couple missile expansions/energy tanks, I would have possibly gotten around, ehh, 1:50. I'm still quite excited by my time.
From: DonnyDonovan | Posted: 5/30/2003 8:19:20 PM
Hey everyone. Long-time reader (and NTSC MP player), first-time poster. I've enjoyed reading all of the amazing sequence-breaks and, despite VERY limited skills, have managed to pull off a few basics (early ice and early plasma).

I'm tearing my hair out, however, over this supposedly "simple" early SJ. I'm dashing, but I never seem to dash jump, and I always fall short of the ledge. I bet I've tried 100 times. I've read everything. I think I'm doing it right. Do I essentially hit right, B and release L all simultaneously? Do I have to stand at the back-right edge of the right-engine flame as far as I can go, or as long as I stand in that general area am I OK? Any insight from those who are really consistent with this jump is greatly appreciated. I really want to do this!
From: Zanapher | Posted: 5/30/2003 8:54:46 PM
DEVILBIT, I can't really say if it's better since I don't have the NTSC version to compare. And sadly I don't have anything to link my GC to the computer so I can't do screenshots or record videos.

All I can say is that water effects are really nice in the PAL version but I really can't say more.

And DonnyDonovan since this seems to cause a lot of trouble to many people here's what I said previously to somebody else that had the same problem:

I think that you might be releasing L a little too soon.
Try dashing a few times (without releasing L) and look carefully at the movement. You'll see that a fraction of second after you started dashing you have a very strong acceleration. You have to release L at this time (right at the moment when it accelerates).

I suggest you go to a more quiet place (like Chozo ruins) with enemies and dash a few times, then try dash jumping there (but the problem with dash jumping is that you don't really see if you did it correctly even when it works). Then go back to the ship and try again.

(in other words you mustn't release L when you press left and jump, you have to release a little later)

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 5/30/2003 9:33:34 PM
Donny: You need to release L after you hit B. With a dash jump, you can release L at any point as long as you are off the ground. Releasing it later in the dash may affect height, but it won't change the fact that it will be a dash jump.

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Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
From: NotN00b | Posted: 5/30/2003 10:27:18 PM
DonnyDonovan: A tip DEVILBIT gave me a long time ago. "Loosen up. The more you want it, the less you'll get it."
---
"When I look in the mirror, I see Another guy. And I look at him... Kinda in that way" --My Friend Michael XD!
From: DonnyDonovan | Posted: 5/30/2003 10:31:08 PM
Thanks for the tips! Taking a break now, but I'll let you know when (and if) I get it.
From: kip | Posted: 5/30/2003 11:32:22 PM
devilbit: do you know how to do reflecting pool without boost ball? there is a method, but it's too inconsistent to be dependable in speed runs (jump on a toad, space jump to the above floor and barely make it). if you have any ideas for me to try i would gladly try them; i'm looking for an easier method.
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 5/31/2003 1:09:38 AM
has anyone found an easier method of skipping the chozo ghost fight in life grove?
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/31/2003 3:07:13 AM
DonnyDonovan:

Take a look here, I've written up a guide to getting the Space Jump first...

http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime/sj_first.shtml

A guide with screenshots and a movie can be found here.

And as everyone else said, release B just after dashing. It makes the WORLD of difference...

I see I've been knocked off of the MP any % normal speed table. Time to get that sorted out this weekend then I think (looks at his current NTSC speed run... >=)

Andrew "MP Prime Speed Monkey" Mills
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 5/31/2003 3:09:02 AM
Game Type ----- Normal Mode ----- Record Holder ------- Hard Mode ----- Record Holder

any% ................... 1:35 (34%) .............. kip ..................... 1:58 (31%) ......... Gold Leader
............................ 1:46 (48%) ........... CALFoolio .............. 2:49 (100%) ........ CALFoolio
............................ 1:52 (45%) ........... Radix37 ................. 3:50 (100%) ........ Varsis Erion

Low% ................ 2:58 (23%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:00 (24%) ........ kip
............................ 2:55 (24%) ............ TreborSelbon ........ 4:01 (26%) ........ Gold Leader
............................ 4:09 (24%) ............ Gold Leader .......... 4:35 (31%) ........ gamecubeman27

100% .................. 2:19 ........................ CALFoolio ............. 2:49 ................... CALFoolio
............................ 3:02 ........................ Lazy Veysey ........ 3:50 ................... Varsis Erion
............................ 3:17 ....................... Urazz Izmine .......... 6:50 ................... SteelWingX

Frigate Escape ...... 4:22.05 ................. kip
..............................4:20.65 .................. CALFoolio
..............................4:15.39 .................. zell99

Points each person holds:
(3 points for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place, 1 point for 3rd place, 1/2 point for PAL Speedrun(due to early Plasma), 1 point for PAL low percent (due to early Plasma again))
CALFoolio: 12
kip: 9
Gold Leader: 6
TreborSelbon: 5
Varsis Erion: 3
Lazy Veysey: 2
Radix37: 1
gamecubeman27: 1
SteelWingX: 1
Urazz Izmine: 1
zell99: 1
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/31/2003 10:56:13 AM
Hi.

About REFLECTING POOL:

Mr Kip, you are aplying the correct method, the problem you have is the correct execution, heres how youll make the jump 100% of the times:

-As usual go to the left toad from the entrance, go on top of him.

-You are looking to the direction of the elevator, look up and L lock your view

- Hit B while quickly hitting left (and a bit up) on the stick going to the wall, then for your second jump hit B and quickly right on the stick.

With this youll easily make that jump for the speed run, 100% sure.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/31/2003 11:00:17 AM
Hi.

About REFLECTING POOL:

Mr Kip, you are aplying the correct method, the problem you have is the correct execution, heres how youll make the jump 100% of the times:

-As usual go to the left toad from the entrance, go on top of him.

-You are looking to the direction of the elevator, look up and L lock your view

- Hit B while quickly hitting left (and a bit up) on the stick going to the wall, then for your second jump hit B and quickly right on the stick.

With this youll easily make that jump for the speed run.
100% sure it works
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/31/2003 11:07:55 AM
GCPS
For got to tell, if you follow the instructions in the previous post, for Reflecting Pool you can go to the second floor from the toad on the right. Even the other one altoguh is harder, so go for the traditional one.

Also a problem noticed was that people on the left toad tried to go to the platform at the back (if looking at the elevator to Tallon), is better to use the one in front while aplaying the left-right method.

Hope it helps, thanks for the time.
From: funkytoad | Posted: 5/31/2003 11:22:37 AM
Hmm...not sure if anyone has ever posted this before, but I've just stumbled upon a way to finish life grove rather quickly...obviously you get the xray visor and the artifact, but the instead of going up and fighting the ghosts, go back to the center area, and find the large-ish rock (inside the area before you use the power bomb to break the walls). Once you're on there, it's possible to do a spring jump to the entrance. Look at the opening where the entrace/exit is, and from the right side of it, aim about 25% of it to the left (if you aim at the very right side you're likely to hit the wall and fall down). You must also release your spring IMMEDIATELY after jumping, or you won't make it. Distance isn't a problem, only height, so turning is not necessary.

Hopefully no one else has pointed this out already, haha XP
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 5/31/2003 11:57:08 AM
sorry funky, but that's old news =\

---
Metroid Prime- Normal 100%: 2:19 Hard 100%: 2:49
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520
From: funkytoad | Posted: 5/31/2003 12:14:51 PM
Hahah, I figured so :)
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
From: gamerkid17 | Posted: 5/31/2003 2:30:49 PM
CALFollio, how many times have you beaten this game?
---
AC Name:NES AC Town:NES
Video games RULE
From: kip | Posted: 5/31/2003 3:07:31 PM
hey devilbit, got any ideas on getting the wave beam without triggering the fight against the baby sheegoths and adult sheegoth?

before the fight happens, there doesn't seem to be anything to dash jump from besides the wave beam itself, so i don't know if you could dash jump to it and grab it before the cutscene (and whether that would prevent the fight from happening or if it would be useless).

also, tried jumping on top of those little houses the baby sheegoths come out of so that i could then jump down on the wave beam and grab it early, but it seems there's an invisible wall just above each house. but there could be something i overlooked.
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 5/31/2003 3:17:04 PM
Cal lost count after his tenth time.. read up ;)
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: gamerkid17 | Posted: 5/31/2003 3:18:58 PM
read up???
---
AC Name:NES AC Town:NES
Video games RULE
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 5/31/2003 3:30:10 PM
Hi.

Mr. Kip, dont think that skipping the sheegoth battle for wave beam is posible, because the very wave beam is the trigger for the cinema.

Did the reflecting pool tips worked for you? Also sorry for the double post the browser went crazy there.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 5/31/2003 7:29:25 PM
It seems like there's an invisible wall around wave beam too, like deskjockey mentioned. When I space jump at it I can reach the spot where the wave beam sits while I'm still pretty far off the ground, yet I still hit a barrier. Have you guys noticed that too or am I doing something wrong?

By the way, way to go on the no space jump strats for life grove and monitor station, kyuenjin and devilbit! Good luck with any further no sjb discoveries.

---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 5/31/2003 8:50:51 PM
I might as well clear this one up about not triggering the fight for Wave Beam.

As far as I could tell, it's not possible, as I tested this when I first got my Action Replay 2, and tried moonjumping to it from as high as was possible, from all angles. I couldn't get ANYWHERE near it...

So unless someone can find a glitch around this, it won't be possible. Sorry.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 5/31/2003 8:53:57 PM
Well, I thought of something, I think. Is there any possible way to get out of the Frigate at the beginning without losing your upgrades? Because, If I know what I'm talking about, I think that would get rid of three percent, as all the power ups you begin with count as zero percent. There are only three places I can think of going to avoid it, but they all seem impossible--going out the way you came in the Parasite Queen Room, the corridor that is above the cargo lift room thing, and up the elavator that you lose your power ups at without actually using the elevator (since the scan that activates the elevator is the trigger for losing power ups).

But, as far as I can tell, each of them are impossible--the room with the Parasite Queen shuts a non-shootable door behind you (that, and I believe it's impossible to get back up that high). The walls in the corridor above the cargo lift room are low enough for you to double bomb jump out of, but there seems to be an invisible ceiling there. And the elevator without activating it is just too damn high.

Ah well, at least I tried. But I was wondering--has anyone else thought of this before? Possibly a while back?
---
It'll be like Ghandi, except everyone's dancing!
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 5/31/2003 8:54:26 PM
I've noticed that same barrier, Ama. There appears to be no way around it, but I didn't exactly spend time testing it.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 5/31/2003 9:00:34 PM
Mamba: Dave tested that a while back using the moon jump to clear that last elevator without activating it. Bad news is it doesn't matter. Once you get to tallon, the game resets your items.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 5/31/2003 9:01:55 PM
Bah. Oh well. :\
---
It'll be like Ghandi, except everyone's dancing!
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 5/31/2003 10:44:39 PM
i bet you guys have seen my pathetic run submitted to twingalaxies for this game so come on and let me in what path you take for a sub two hour run. *any takers?*
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: zell99 | Posted: 6/1/2003 12:20:16 AM
yori- i commented your whole route and even gave you one i did myself.. now work on it >_>
---
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid
Y'all [...] make sure it's popin' when we get up there... -Tupac
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/1/2003 1:28:06 AM
i hope you did't try sending to the email on my website :( because that one has a broken link or something
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/1/2003 1:30:15 AM
but thank you for doing that that was awesome!! it's the thought that counts
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: Snoopdigger XP | Posted: 6/1/2003 9:50:20 AM
Hey, have you noticed that when you get the morph ball early, (with the early EARLY sj) as soon as you go to the next room the battle music is still playing? It kept playing all the way to the Furnace. Weird?

BTW, what is the website for the speed run path? I'll do one while looking at no sj game.

Oh, I also backed up Version 1, incase anyone wants to look up something.
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 6/1/2003 12:09:02 PM
normal 43% 1:39

this was my warmup run, so it was pretty much crap. didn't even bother recording it.

---
Metroid Prime- Normal 100%: 2:19 Hard 100%: 2:49
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/1/2003 12:44:38 PM
geocities.com/metroidprimespeedruns
is the website i think your lookin fo snoop
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: the last metroid | Posted: 6/1/2003 1:50:09 PM
Hey, have you noticed that when you get the morph ball early, (with the early EARLY sj) as soon as you go to the next room the battle music is still playing? It kept playing all the way to the Furnace. Weird?

Yeah, I noticed this.
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/1/2003 2:06:26 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Amasawa | Posted: 6/1/2003 2:11:42 PM
have you noticed that when you get the morph ball early, (with the early EARLY sj) as soon as you go to the next room the battle music is still playing?

I didn't notice, because I skipped triggering the battle at all when I tried an sj first game.

Doesn't surprise me though, because I've had that kind of thing happen in other similar situations, like leaving Central Dynamo via an early pbomb expansion without fighting the cloaked drone, or if a Metroid glitches through the floor in Metroid Quarantine A so it gets stuck and then you leave the room, for example.

---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/1/2003 2:22:55 PM
about skipping the seegoths for wave beam: the game reacts differently to morph ball sometimes, already tried getting to it in morph ball mode?

And how skip the battle for the morph ball again? When i went out the the battle after getting Sj first, the music reacted normal (PAL)
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/1/2003 2:24:49 PM
Hi.

Just saw the post about weird things that happen when doing stuff out of order.

Remember sometime ago seeing, in the place were the crashed frigate is on tallon overworld (cant rememeber the name of the room, the one with the first flying pirates and the hook points), some injured pirates like the ones in the frigate when its in outer space.
Some were lying around and shooting, other one was stumbling around.

Well, anyone knows whats the trigger for this?

Thanks for the time.
From: BrownyMaster | Posted: 6/1/2003 3:40:48 PM
I think it's Crashed Frigate Site. When in the game did u go there?
---
SSBM: HRC: 34657.2 10-MM: 4:22:20
Games Playing: SSBM, MP
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/1/2003 3:48:39 PM
what about skipping hive mecha is this possible how do you do it?
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
From: BrownyMaster | Posted: 6/1/2003 4:04:01 PM
I don't think u can. If it's the thing that gives u the missile, u can't. u just don't have 2 get the missile launcher
---
SSBM: HRC: 34657.2 10-MM: 4:22:20
Games Playing: SSBM, MP
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/1/2003 4:08:19 PM
oh crap i thought you guys were talkin about the flame guy that gives the MBbombs
---
Ikaruga prototype: 4,500,000 name *sodohobo*
metroid prime 34%/speed 2:19
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/1/2003 7:12:30 PM
"I don't think u can. If it's the thing that gives u the missile, u can't."

Browny: If you get the space jump as the first item, or by doing a dash jump across the acid, you can skip the hive mecha and still pick up the missile launcher. I'm saving him for after I get X-ray visor, thermal visor, all the beams, etc. and see how they react to the Hive Mecha.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/1/2003 7:31:04 PM
Because of SJ first, you don't need to fight Hive Mecha or the Missile Launcher. There are two expansions in Main Plaza that are easy pickings with SJ.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: tfd | Posted: 6/1/2003 7:56:12 PM
I just got the space jump boots as the first thing in the game, via the dash-jump (NTSC) method. Very cool. Still not a piece of cake for me. I probably worked an hour on it. One key I think was to only press B very briefly. I did not try to cope with the idea of starting the scan and then immediately doing the rest of the technique. Instead, I locked on the spider vine and stayed there positioning myself on the ship for a while. Then I started moving right, tap B, and release L. Whoosh there I was at last.

Oh, and as for position, I decided that it was NOT good to be as far back on the ship as possible. Instead, I positioned myself such that the forward (bow-side) edge of the ship's entrance hole was a tad above the bottom edge of my visor, as seen with the spider-vine lock-on. If I positioned myself further back, so that the complete entrance hole was visible with lock-on, I think I was dashing and hitting the taller part of the rock cliff, instead of the small lower section.

Lots of fun to pick up missile expansions, and jumping up to the morph ball as the next things in the game.

By the way, if you delay visiting the crashed frigate site until you get the plasma beam, can you kill the two flying pirates who are studying the phazon spill? I wanna toast them!
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)
From: Treize Knight | Posted: 6/1/2003 8:10:30 PM
This is out of spite, but I decided to enter the runnings, some please post the website with the sequence breaking again. I could look for it, but I'm lazy. As for the times, heh, I will defeat CALFoolio's time with everythin I am.

A nice little side question. How do you beat the big sheeloth in going for the lowest percentage rating? Without the charge beam, 5 missiles and the crates only shelling out, oh say 15 missile for me, this is such a fun part.

---
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for," I agree with the second part.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 6/1/2003 8:26:24 PM
tfd, yes, you can kill them.

treize knight --

http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid/

Using bombs on the Sheegoth's stomach works find if all you're concerned about is ammo in a low % game.

Good luck and have fun.

---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/1/2003 8:49:57 PM
Treize- I just gained a lot of respect for you. You still rank very low on my list though...just don't acuse us of lying again.

And bombs kill the Sheegoth faster and easier than missiles even if you have missiles to spare.
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
From: kip | Posted: 6/1/2003 9:26:05 PM
"How do you beat the big sheeloth in going for the lowest percentage rating? Without the charge beam, 5 missiles and the crates only shelling out, oh say 15 missile for me, this is such a fun part."

didn't you do a hard 24% game before? based on your previous experience then, you should know how to handle that situation...
From: Treize Knight | Posted: 6/1/2003 9:37:21 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Treize Knight | Posted: 6/1/2003 9:39:03 PM
I've had to deal with things like school and employment.

Then again, I still have reserves about beating Omega Pirate on hard mode with only 99 energy. Better yet, when Omega calls on his buddies...

While I'm at Omega, how come you can't shot him without the X-ray scanner?

Because just because I am doing it myself, doesn't change my opinion sweety... ^~

---
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for," I agree with the second part.
From: kip | Posted: 6/1/2003 9:59:22 PM
well of course, imo school and employment are more important. just found it a little odd that someone who did a hard 24% game is asking how to beat the sheegoth in low %. it's like some really experienced player suddenly asking how to dbj one day.

as for op without x-ray, i have no idea. you can shoot at him, but everything seems to just go right through him like he's not even there unless the visor is on at the moment of impact. x-ray could be skipped if a way to damage/kill him without it was found.
From: DonnyDonovan | Posted: 6/1/2003 10:04:00 PM
tfd: I posted a couple of days ago lamenting my struggles with NTSC very early SJ. I utilized a couple of your tips and finally got it after about 20 minutes of trying. I stood a little further forward (on the turbine rather than the flame), locked on my scan without trying to proceed immediately, started right to get just a little momentum, tapped B as quickly as possible, then released L. And after more failed attempts than I can count, lo and behold, I was on the ledge! Thanks for the help everyone who responded. Skipping hive mecha, the beetle battle and grabbing morph ball was VERY cool. Now looking forward to replaying the game with some more fun sequence breaks.
From: Knux Chao | Posted: 6/2/2003 6:16:58 AM
does anything happen if you go to hive mecha the back way? through the morph ball tunnel?
---
"How do you beat endless melee?"-hello16
Dude! I'm a Legend!
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 6/2/2003 8:37:51 AM
Question 1: Has anyone tried to lock on to omega and hold the position, then switch the visor and shoot? It just seems really odd that you CAN'T hurt him unless your in the visor view.....

Question 2: What are some of the more advanced tips to moving quickly throughout the game.... i mean... im moving fast... but not to my liking.... I worked a little on a run this weekend and i'm sitting at 1:18 right before omega on a 100% run.... but i need to move faster.... any help would be appreciated
---
MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100%
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/2/2003 2:08:52 PM
Low and behold the latest PAL world record!

1hr 57mins. And it was HELL to get... >=(

But i managed it. And here is the screenshot to prove it!

http://www.samus.co.uk/images/extra/pal_157_normal.jpg

I plan on taping another run via my PC (God help me when I'm forced to play in 320x240 resolution sized screen!!! ;_; )

I plan on sending this into TwinGalaxies for "official" PAL WR confirmation.

Getting less than this is going to be tough (but possible). I also managed to get my strat sorted well for MetaRidley. Finished him off in 7 mins. Can maybe do it in about 5 mins without any mistakes...

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Amasawa | Posted: 6/2/2003 2:33:20 PM
Nice job, Andrew.

Has anyone tried to lock on to omega and hold the position, then switch the visor and shoot? It just seems really odd that you CAN'T hurt him unless your in the visor view.....

Yes, I've tried that specifically among other things, and other players have also. To me, it looks like the shots strike the target (not go through) so I'm positive I'm hitting the right spot, but it's not even tickling him. =\

I agree that it's weird. I guess Retro wanted to keep players from being able to trash OP just by looking at his energy signature, to force you to realize that x-ray is key to locating him (and apparently damaging him), but besides them, who knows for sure?
---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/2/2003 5:15:18 PM
Wow Andrew, that's impressive (hey, I like that PAL ending screen...the NTSC one is kinda cheap IMO). What run did you use to get that good of a time on PAL?
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 6/2/2003 6:47:20 PM
bah..... thats suckin' hardcore.... i made my first 100% complete run since my 3:02 way back when.... i got to the end with 2:19 after ridley, and only had 240 on my missile count.... this was bad... but not as bad as when i went searching for the other two missiles ... and they were nowhere to be found... i searched the game over a couple of times now... looked at the missile "checklist" location faq... and either i am blind... or they aren't there anymore... anyone know whats goin on....
---
MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100%
From: Treize Knight | Posted: 6/2/2003 7:53:43 PM
Well screw the Lowest percentage race, I think I'll enter lowest time.

*Thinking to one's self*
With the space jump and missles that cuts down the first part in the ruins to only 15 mins. Then to the drifts to get the BB, WB, of course, their must be a way to get the IB, aw, the SM and IR can snuff it. Then use tactics to cruse through and get the PB and mines, visit old Omega get the Phazon suit. Artifact collecting on route. That should all in all take about an hour, twenty. Adding ten minutes for bosses.

---
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for," I agree with the second part.
From: kip | Posted: 6/2/2003 9:19:02 PM
"I plan on taping another run via my PC (God help me when I'm forced to play in 320x240 resolution sized screen!!! ;_; )"

ugh, i know what that's like. my whole hard 24% run was playing on my monitor haha. never again, it's all about vcr for recording now. =]
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/2/2003 10:41:51 PM
I got a hard any % run in 2:09 with 46%... but I'm hoping I can shave several minutes off it because that was just a test fight of ridley & prime.
From: Gold Leader | Posted: 6/2/2003 10:49:17 PM
what is out mIRC channel?
---
Free cookie. Just tell me what kind you want.
Cookies served: 6
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/2/2003 11:30:52 PM
Copy and paste this into your message browser if you've got mIRC:

irc://irc.esper.net/metroidprime

Cool, eh?

Otherwise, server is irc.esper.net and #metroidprime.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 6/3/2003 11:09:17 AM
bah.... i started a new run due to the fact that i couldnt find those two missile tanks.... but maybe i can do even better this time.... an estimated finish time would have been 2:28 - 2:29... 100%... i'll go for sub 2:15 now...
---
MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100%
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/3/2003 5:15:15 PM
Question:
I'm at the plasma beam without spider now (PAL version, and yes i have a PB expansion)). It all works fine till the part where i have to walk the grey ledge towards the last pieces of spider track. No matter what i do, i always glide off. If i just jump towards the door, i slide off. if i slowly walk the ledge, i can keep this up always till a certain point where i don't seem to be able to walk further, and where i always slide off if i do try to walk furter.
Could anybody tell me more in detail what to do, or what i'm doing wrong?
thx
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/3/2003 5:42:14 PM
even more intreguing:
now i tried just walking the ledge in the opposite direction a few times. all around the room. it works fine, i can do it pretty fast now, only when i get towards the end, close to the spiderball tracks where i have to be; i slide off again! always, like you just cannot walk the ledge in the vicinity of that part.
Please don't tell me i just stumbled upon a PAL correction. It can't be nobody else noticed this before...
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/3/2003 6:00:14 PM
Random Blonde Boy:

I have the solution to your problem.

I had this problem until I discovered what "triggered" the platform to come out and extend so you could jump onto it. That trigger is the 3rd Square spiderball track at the top. You CAN just SJ up there from the 2nd Square and just stand there. Turn around and look at the ledge as it extends before your very eyes!

Now just go BACK onto the 2nd aquare spiderball track and SJ over to the newly extended ledge.

Have fun with the Plasma Beam! :)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Zanapher | Posted: 6/3/2003 7:29:32 PM
I don't think that's what he meant. I think his problem is that he can't walk on the small ledge that goes all around the room. And that's normal. At some point (the last point where you can still walk on the ledge) you have to space jump to another part because you can't simply walk there (no matter what side you're coming from you always have to jump at some point).
Since it's a little hard to explain I recommend you watch one of the videos (I used to have one but the site is down temporarily) to see where you have to jump.

Then climb on the three square spider tracks (one after the other) and you should make it to the door (note that it's not absolutely necessary to have the little platform appear when you go on the 3rd square but it helps a lot).
And I did in in the PAL version so it works.

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Treize Knight | Posted: 6/3/2003 7:56:48 PM
Okay, work monkey, seeing my calculations, I am at a loss at wheather getting the gravity Suit would either be a boon or a hinderance, Seeing how I can get through the sunken ship without a hitch or avoid it entirely, it's a rough decision, your thoughts?

Get it or let it rot with the thermal optics?

---
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for," I agree with the second part.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/4/2003 3:05:41 AM
My bad.

Mis-read the post.

Right, this is where my method - which was questioned at the start - works WONDERS for getting around on the ledge.

The Procedure:

As soon as you have raised the roof revealing the spider track, go BACK to the spinner that has the spiderball track on it. Now, jump onto the ledge that's going to the right -->

You can walk all around this until JUST before the final curve in that corner. STOP, then SJ to a ledge that sits just in front of the first Spiderball Sqauare. Now SJ AGAIN to the piece of ledge AFTER that Spiderball square. Proceed as normal.

This takes longer (by no more than 30 seconds) than the quicker method, but there's MUCH less chance of falling off this way.

To see this exact route in action, watch this video:

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/plasma_early_full.mpg (7.3 Megs)

Oh, and Treize; It depends on what kind of run you're doing. Normal runs get the gravity suit, but on speed runs, just forget about it completely.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/4/2003 3:08:54 AM
yep i meant what zanapher's referring too, thanx for the advice, both of you, i'd be in trouble later on if you didn't tell me, andrew :) (congrats on the record besides)
I can't find the right video though. for some reason (slow pc, bad video card) i can't get amasawa's video to run beyond the first few second, your site is down, and zellmetroid doesn't have a vid of it. But i'll try some jumps for myself.
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/4/2003 3:44:46 AM
thanx again, andrew, i'll get your video, hope that one works.
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/4/2003 4:11:22 AM
Comeon, a simple L-Spring Space Jump from the top most spinner to the metal ledge, right to the spiderball blocks, is the fastest and for me the easiest method.
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/4/2003 4:16:00 AM
YES i made it
great video thanx again :)
From: scizor213 | Posted: 6/4/2003 6:12:16 AM
does my amazing time make anything new. 37:42 77%. Isn't that amazing or what.
---
i NO i KANT SPEL http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4923289
From: tfd | Posted: 6/4/2003 8:22:51 AM
>Comeon, a simple L-Spring Space Jump from the top most spinner to the
>metal ledge, right to the spiderball blocks, is the fastest and for me the
>easiest method.

For me (NTSC) you don't even have to L-lock. Just do a normal space jump from the highest spinner platform over towards the first of the three spiderball blocks. (Aim to the right of that block a ways, perhaps two or three block-widths worth, to make sure you aren't trying to jump too far.) No spring jump, no jumping on the extended horizontal spiderball arm tube. Just jump from spinner over to the little ledge.

My problem remains as doing the ghetto jump onto the first spider ball block. I haven't managed to do it yet. Most annoying!
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/4/2003 8:45:13 AM
Random Blonde Boy:

Glad I could be of help. The video was a decent one =)

LLCoolDave: I know the other way you take is faster, but the other way round IS much easier to do on a consistent basis. Just because you find the other way easier, doesn't mean someone else will... :p

Andrew "Mp Speed Monkey" Mills
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/4/2003 11:08:12 AM
Andrew Mills: do yo have a video of getting through Hydro Access tunnel without Gravity Suit? I cant seem to do it, and I dont have the codec to watch .avi movies. Can you help me?
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/4/2003 11:22:38 AM
Why yes, yes I CAN help you.

As soon as I get back to the flat, I will convert the .avi movie I have of that, and convert it into a .mpg for you and post the link in this topic.

Should have that done within the next 3 hours or so (after I get out of work).

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/4/2003 11:40:37 AM
Alright, thanks. Wathcing your movies helps me alot, I learned how to TBJ first try after watching your movie, even though Im NSTC and dont need to much.
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/4/2003 11:43:50 AM
For this, I'd be willing to make a banner for your site, I can make decent ones, if you want me to, just ask.
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/4/2003 12:51:16 PM
And here you go!

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/hydro_wo_grav.mpg (1.6 Megs)

That should be you. And thanks for your offer and I would certainly like to take you up on that if you dopn't mind (I suck at graphics packages) I would need one at the following dimensions if you please...

500 pixls (width) x 100 pixels high and in a .jpg format.

Please e-mail it/them to motherbrain@samus.co.uk

And thanks once again for the offer, hope you find that video useful! =)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/4/2003 1:07:22 PM
Alright, that helps alot, but how do you align the Ball so it goes straight down? I can never seem to do that? I can get the first done so Im right below the energy tank with the wall blocking me, but I cant do a big boost x.x What do I do? and do you want it black background or white background?
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/4/2003 1:27:35 PM
Hiya,

That video ISN'T one I actually made, it was from a different MP related site. I just converted it for you.

I've never actually bothered with a low% run before, not my style. Prefer speed runs =)

It's best to just keep trying, I edited the length of the movie to reduce the filesize for you, so it does go on for about 45 seconds normally. You just got to keep trying as this guy did.

Oh, and a black Background would be nice, and I seem to need the width at 700 x 10 0now! Soz about that. =/ Ta again =)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/4/2003 1:30:29 PM
Ok, I guess I'll do it over, Black BG? Gooood. that will make it easy, along with more width, thank you.
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: DonnyDonovan | Posted: 6/4/2003 1:47:18 PM
tfd: Since your early space jump tricks helped me, I'll explain how I do the Ghetto jump to get early plasma, as I'm relatively consistent with it. I learned from Zell's site and this is similar, but maybe I can help a bit.

I stand on the ledge facing the block so that Samus' left arm is parallel to the right edge of the block. Next I tilt my view down about 45 degrees and hold it there. For my first jump I tilt the stick up and to the right so that I'm sort of hugging the ledge that's there. At the peak of jump #1 I press B for jump number 2, immediately pull back from the wall, and about halfway through jump 2 push forward and just a little to the left to catch the top of the block. I also find that since I'm pushing forward, if I do miss, most of the time I catch the ledge on the way down and can try again right away. It's just something you have to feel, but once you get it, you should become relatively consistent with it.

Also, be careful on the jump to the second block. Step out from the wall just a bit and be sure to get maximum height. I've made the hard jump more than once and missed the easier second jump. Once you get to the second block the space jump to the plasma room door is a snap. Hope this helps.
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/4/2003 1:50:37 PM
Alright, sent the banner, I hope it helps =X
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 6/4/2003 2:46:06 PM
i want a catchy nickname too. maybe i'll be CAL "MP Speed Lemur" Foolio XD

---
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520 Prototype: 21,858,350
From: illusionlithium | Posted: 6/4/2003 3:18:12 PM
I just came back to this board so what's new? I left after I got the space jump early around the time people were "claiming" to finish the varia run. Anything new when I was gone? Anything I can test?
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|||__ ||__ |||_||_|\|
|___|______|______|_____|____|___|_____|_\___|
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/4/2003 4:17:08 PM
donny: yep that's how exactly i did it. i also landed on the ledge again if i didn't make it and yes i failed my first try jemping from the first block to the second :)

so that's the famous ghetto jump now is it? where else is this useful?
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/4/2003 4:36:49 PM
NotN00b: Recieved the e-mail and the banner nice work.

Couple of suggestions tho:

You said that there weren't many other images available for other Metroid games, so I zipped together quite a few from MP, SM and MF for you so you can download them here. I liked the text of the different games, but I was wondering if u could put them in this order (Metroid, MP, M2, SM, MF, MP2, Zero).

The link to download all of that art (some of which was supplied by Nintendo directly) is here:

http://www.samus.co.uk/banner_art.zip (1 Meg)

That should be enough. Also, the EXACT measurements after tweaking it in my code is:

590 pixels wide by 100 pixels long. That's the DEFINITIVE size.

Your banner is on my site and looks like this on it:

http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime/sequence_breaking.shtml

The site is also coming along well, so feedback would be most appreciated (by anyone who's interested). Take a look =)

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Zanapher | Posted: 6/4/2003 6:37:51 PM
NotN00b, here's a little explanation about hydro access without gravity (because there's a way to do it consistently without having to try for hours and taking the energy tank if you want to avoid it for a low% run).

When you're on top of the vertical line (next to the ET) press up on your controller. This will make the ball go against the back wall of the room (check pressing down, and then up to see what I mean).
Now while still pressing up, charge your boost (completely). Then when the boost is fully charged, press down on your controller (to make Samus come "closer to the camera") and right after let go of B to do a boost (the "right after" is a little tricky to explain since it's not at the same time but not much after either, it's basically right when Samus stops moving "closer to the camera" maybe a very little bit before).

If you did it correctly, you should have done a very little boost downwards (if not then try again with a slightly different timing until it works) and be a little bit under the level of the ET. From there you have to charge a little boost and boost quickly (don't charge it much). If you do it well you'll do a much bigger boost downwards. Again charge your boost but not completely (you can do it a little bit more than before but still not too much) and you should go straight down again. By this time you'll either be on the floor (press right and it'll be over) or near to it so boost quickly again and you'll be done.

I hope this helps, remember that only the first boost is really important and pressing up, charging, down and boosting is the key to it (with this technique, after you did it once or twice to get the timing you should be able to do it almost every time on the first try).

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/5/2003 12:04:44 AM
@ andrew:
I like the site. If you will manage to complete and update everything regulary in it it would be VERY cool. Simple colors/layout maybe but at least that's better than most of the annoying stuff you see on the web.
From: nismojoe | Posted: 6/5/2003 2:04:49 AM
i dont know why i chose level hard

MP handed me my butt today

ill try to finsih some other time, too frustrating now

http://www.fulginiti.com/joey/metroidprime/speedrun.jpg
---
http://www.twingalaxies.com/ - you should join this
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/5/2003 3:07:05 AM
@Random Blonde Boy:

Thanks for the comments, please bear in mind that the colour scheme is ONLY there as a way of me keeping each area of the page distinct for now, that will all change as more and more gets added to it (design wise).

The main thing (apart from the content) will be the fact that it'll load fast even on a 56k modem. So it may not be .php or flash, but it'll do what it's supposed to do at the speed of light (well, maybe not QUITE that fast....).

I'm also coding it ALL by HAND in notepad (but I have shortcuts and stuff to speed it up), so that needs to be taken into consideration.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Random Blonde Boy | Posted: 6/5/2003 6:05:49 AM
"The main thing (apart from the content) will be the fact that it'll load fast even on a 56k modem. So it may not be .php or flash, but it'll do what it's supposed to do at the speed of light "

excellent choice! Seriously, even with my broadband PC, when i'm surfing heavy and have several windows open, i can miss flash sites like a headache. Look at this site. ber- simple, but it works 100%, and fast. Zell's site is great too.

i'll get back on topic from now :)
From: tfd | Posted: 6/5/2003 11:54:20 AM
Donny: Thanks for the explanation. I will give it another try before too long.

Andrew: I looked at your web site home page with my old Netscape 4.5 browser on NT V4.0. The home page layout is quite messed up (lots of overlaps and a huge gap at the top) compared to the appearance in IE 5). If you have access to multiple old browsers, you might try examining it to see if there are changes possible to make it more universally viewable. [Sorry for the digression!]
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)
From: Guoshima | Posted: 6/5/2003 12:22:01 PM
well I know it isn't the topic, but Adrew site works with Opera; which I think is farmost the best browser available. And so it means that it lives upto all the standards, something you don't find to much anymore nowadays :)
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/5/2003 12:30:13 PM
Andrew: I looked at your web site home page with my old Netscape 4.5 browser on NT V4.0. The home page layout is quite messed up

I'm fully aware of thsi problem as I have both Netscape and IE installed on my machine for site testing purposes.

The problem is my quick search bar as it uses a form of Javascript that Netscape doesn't seem to like, yet I also use two more Javascripts for other elements that work fine... I might see how I can get around it tho...

And back on topic please (anymore probs or suggestions about my site can be aimed at motherbrain@samus.co.uk).

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/5/2003 12:59:40 PM
Zanapher: Whats the "ET"? Is this easy to do without spider ball aswell?
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/5/2003 1:18:22 PM
w00t! I did it! =D Thanks to both of you! =D This is cool o_o
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: darkdavid | Posted: 6/5/2003 2:01:51 PM
Any body solved Artifact of World w/out Spider or Space Jump yet? If not then I could try a few ideas I've got. It would involve boost though..
From: kip | Posted: 6/5/2003 2:12:11 PM
without spider and space jump you mean... =P

nope, afaik it's still unsolved. and it's okay if the method depended on boost since boost won't be skipped any time soon.
From: darkdavid | Posted: 6/5/2003 2:12:36 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about this. Have you ever tried jumping, then dashing. If you tap right before you're about a third of the way up your jump, you can still dash!
From: kip | Posted: 6/5/2003 2:15:47 PM
yeah... it's a little tough to do consistently though. but maybe there will be a situation someday where the only way to get through with a dash jump is to jump then dash jump.
From: darkdavid | Posted: 6/5/2003 2:26:25 PM
OK, here's my idea for the Artifact of World. First, get into the tunnel at the top of the room using a wall triple bomb jump from the very left of the highest platfrom. Its just a tiny bit sticking out below the morph ball tunnel. I've done this before as a test in a 100% game. Once up, remove the saftly shield so you never have to do that triple bomb jump again.

Now for the bit I have yet to test. Boost out of the left side of the tunnel, trying to stay close to the wall whilst traveling left. If you morph at this point you might be able to land on the peg used in the no spider method.

If you can do this, the only thing you'll have to do is get from the peg to the bomb slot. I shall go take this for a test now.
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 6/5/2003 3:19:58 PM
ph33r me...

CAL "MP Speed Donkey" Foolio

---
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520 Prototype: 21,858,350
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/5/2003 3:59:51 PM
Nobody should be worried these days about how a web page looks in netscape 4.x. Check your pages in IE 5+ and Netscape 6+/Mozilla, and maybe Opera... don't worry about old P.O.S. NS 4.x
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 6/5/2003 8:27:14 PM
Lol, that's a good one Cal. Alas, I still fail to sub 2:30 in Metroid Prime cause I suck that bad (or perhaps if I hadn't taken three months off... hell, I can't even seen to get early Plasma anymore...)

- Ti "MP Speed Panther" m

...Yeah, I know that was lame :P

---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 6/5/2003 9:18:16 PM
don't worry tim, i'm sure you'll think of something nice and catchy XD

CAL "MP Speed Turtle" Foolio

---
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520 Prototype: 21,858,350
From: DonnyDonovan | Posted: 6/6/2003 12:19:03 AM
Two speed-related questions. I know these have been addressed before but I don't recall.

1) How do I get out of life grove w/out fighting the Chozo ghosts? and 2) how much energy do I need to get the artifact right before OP w/out having to double back for it AFTER I get the Phazon suit? I had about eight full tanks and didn't even come close. I'm trying to speed things up a bit and being able to do either of these would help.
From: joakimbtt | Posted: 6/6/2003 5:28:36 AM
Hey Andrew Mills! What's your path? Just give me a optional path like the FAQ please!
---
Break The Targets Total Time: 03:37:40__Ice Climbers - 11:99
From: NotN00b | Posted: 6/6/2003 9:37:50 AM
Me, and my brother are going on a vacation for 3 weeks, cya all June 27th! =D
---
"After reading the harmful effects of Alcohol, I decided to stop reading." --My Friend XD!
From: MegatronLives | Posted: 6/6/2003 11:13:46 AM
I have seen video of getting back into the sunchamber (that's where flaaghra is, right?) Anyway, is that as far as you have to fall to reset the room and have the chozo ghosts appear, to that top block? I haven't gotten back up again succesfully yet, so I wanted to be sure before i started trying again.
---
c'mon next tier of membership... I post all 30 of my messages by noon every day...
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 6/6/2003 11:33:43 AM
donnydonavan- it takes 9 full tanks on normal and it's impossible on hard. in order to do it with 9 tanks, you need to boost between each rock piece that you break while laying the bombs before you reach the next rock piece.

CAL "MP Speed Goldfish" Foolio

---
Ikaruga- Arcade: 17,242,520 Prototype: 21,858,350
From: kip | Posted: 6/6/2003 11:57:00 AM
yeah, to make the ghosts appear in sunchamber you have to fall down to the top block/rock ledge then get back up to the top. the way to get back to the top is to do that bomb jump against the wall after touching an oculus. also if you don't do it right after flaahgra and you leave sun tower, then you can't get the artifact without spider/finish a 23% game.
From: MegatronLives | Posted: 6/6/2003 11:58:49 AM
thanks much
---
c'mon next tier of membership... I post all 30 of my messages by noon every day...
From: joakimbtt | Posted: 6/6/2003 2:42:53 PM
Hi guys, i managed to get the SJ first today, really easy, made it after 10 tries. I read somewhere that the fight before the morphball couldn't be skipped in the PAL version. It's easy and works i tell you. I live in Sweden and have the PAL version. Just L-Lock springjump to the little platform to the right of the room (if youre facing against the morphball) Jump over there, take the morphball and run out. You will still here the music. And you will now never encounter the big version (in chozo ruins main plaza) of the small enemys you meet before the morphball. And to skip the hive, just use a L-Lock spring jump, its easy as that. Well, hope it heped people gainig like 5 minutes in their spedruns at the PAL version. Bye guys!
---
Break The Targets Total Time: 03:37:40__Ice Climbers - 11:99
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/6/2003 3:56:16 PM
Hey, I was wondering if anyone would like to help me with getting the missile expansion in the Frost Cave before getting the grappling beam. To refresh your memory, it's the room where you have to drop down a stalactite to pierce a lake of ice, exposing the expansion. Also, it's where you first see the Hunter Metroid.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Guoshima | Posted: 6/6/2003 4:19:13 PM
skipping the battle in battle to get Morph ball is not so hard. Simple SJ from the ramp and the battle won't even start until you get back. Then the music starts and won't stop until you reach the place where you get the morph ball bomb to be exact.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/6/2003 4:38:53 PM
The final result of my hard any % run is a time of 2:04 with 46%.
From: CALFoolio | Posted: 6/6/2003 4:47:21 PM
nice job radix =)

hope you beat gold leader's score soon.

CAL "MP Speed Apple" Foolio
From: the last metroid | Posted: 6/6/2003 6:28:41 PM
I beat my time... by two minutes! It's crazy how every second counts...

1:55, 41%
From: the last metroid | Posted: 6/6/2003 6:30:00 PM
Oh yeah, that's normal/any, by the way.
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 6/6/2003 6:32:30 PM
Very nice job, Radix

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/6/2003 10:26:17 PM
LOL @ CAL's "Speed Apple": he falls to the ground faster than any other apple alive! It's uncanny how quick he is!
<_<
>_>
*ahem* To stay on topic...

I'm rather interested in what route Andrew took for his WR PAL speed run, any comments Andrew?
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 6/6/2003 10:28:51 PM
OK everyone, I figured I should let you know that there is a new IRC channel for MP or general Metroid discussion; I made a new one to reflect the comprehensive site we're planning to make. It's #metroid-online, and you can reach us there by using a simple IRC client (like mIRC) and connecting to Espernet: Random Server, and typing /join #metroid-online. See you all there.

Oh, and before I forget, I have in my mind a tentative date for Metroid Online to go live; that's July 15, 2003.

- Ti "MP Speed Beetle" m

---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/6/2003 11:26:53 PM
hey guys,

I must be blind to have not noticed this before, but i have just now figured out that i don't need to go through the crashed frigate! and with picking up the space jump boots first and skipping the morphball fight you can look to see my 2:05 time dropping in the 1:50 or below range! as soon as i get money i will buy more blank tapes and submit a new run that is below 2 hours finally!!!
---
Ikaruga prototype: 5,500,000 name *sodohobo*
metroid prime 39%/speed 2:05
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/7/2003 12:59:08 AM
Actually, I think we did conclude awhile ago that going through the crashed frigate was unnecessary (but I completely forget why)
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/7/2003 6:56:20 AM
Gray Fox 9996I'm rather interested in what route Andrew took for his WR PAL speed run, any comments Andrew?

Why yes, here is the route I took in ALL it's glory.

-----------------------------

SJ First --> Main Plaza Missile --> Mball --> E-Tank Main Plaza --> Charge Beam --> MBall Bombs --> Missiles @ Boss --> SAVE
Varia --> Artifact of Wild --> Artifact of Nature --> Boost Ball --> Wave Beam --> SAVE
E-Tank @ Furnace --> TBJM up Furnace --> Ice Beam --> SAVE (better safe than sorry) --> Missiles --> Missiles Behind Ship --> Magmoor --> PB Exp --> Plasma Beam --> Thardus --> Spiderball --> Super Missiles --> Artifact of Elder --> Thermal Visor --> Artifact of Spirit --> E-Tank in Ice --> Magmoor Save point
Artifact of Lifegiver --> Artifact of World --> X-Ray Visor --> Artifact of Chozo --> Tallon Overworld --> SAVE
Magmoor --> Back entrance to Phazon Mines --> Power Bombs --> Ventalation Shaft E-Tank --> Artifact of Warrior --> Omega Pirate --> Artifact of Newborn --> E-tank (at OP) --> Magmoor --> Monitor Station --> Phendrana --> Artifact of Sun --> Artifact of Strength --> PB Exp --> Ice Spreader --> Tallon Overworld --> SAVE at ship
Artifact of Truth --> Meta Ridley --> SAVE --> Metroid Prime
END

So there you go.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Guoshima | Posted: 6/7/2003 11:09:37 AM
well looks like almost the same route as I took, but wouldn't it be faster if you took Artifact of Lifegiver when you are on your way to take the Ice Beam. Take Artifact of Sun and Artifact of Warrior after taking the one at the edge, and when you enter the the mines go directly for OP, and then for artifact of warrior and then to ship .. just a suggestion but it seams faster to me. Ohh and can't you skip Thermal and Super Missile cause you don't really seam to use 'm anyway.
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/7/2003 11:59:07 AM
WEll, thermal and super missiles actually make things a bit easier, and speed things up a tad I imagine.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/7/2003 12:44:25 PM
Oh yeah, there's that, plus you have to get the artifact in the Pirate lair, so you might as well get both, right?
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/7/2003 2:40:00 PM
After struggling a lot with hydro access tunnel w/o grav I found an easier way. After you go up the first little section, go right and when you reach the end go slowly until the current starts to push you up. If you go any further you'll fly all the way up to where the e-tank is. Now do the same hold up/charge/push down/release thing mentioned by Zanapher. If you have the right timing you'll get a big boost down: when you do, quickly push right and you'll be on your way out!

Of course if you end up flying up to the e-tank because of bad timing you have to go back to the old way.
From: kaguto | Posted: 6/7/2003 8:21:02 PM
I'm trying to do something BIG. Im trying to get through magmorr Caverns without the Varia. I know there is one more energy tank i need to get and then I will most likely get through magmoor caverns. The energy tank is at the top of the Sun Tower. If you remeber right after you beat Flagharaa(sp?) and u go through the next room. There is an energy tank there. I need to know how to get up top to the sun Tower!!!!!
From: kaguto | Posted: 6/7/2003 8:22:38 PM
I need to know how to get up top of the Sun Tower. It has an energy tnak up ther ei need. I can mos tlikely get through Magmoor Caverns if I have that energy tank. Plz tell me how.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/7/2003 8:26:27 PM
There is no energy tank in the sun tower. You can only get three e-tanks before going to magmoor, and that's not enough to get through without the varia. People have already tried it months ago.
From: kaguto | Posted: 6/7/2003 8:28:54 PM
i remeber there was an energy tank right after the Sun chamber when u beat FLagahrra. I guess i keep on tyring then.
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 6/7/2003 8:32:22 PM
No, there's no Energy Tank after beating Flaahgra. Let's see:

Flaahgra is destroyed.
Varia Suit
Go through door.
Follow pathway, avoiding Tangle Weed.
Shoot crates to get an Ultra Energy (you might be mistaking this for the Energy Tank).
Open door.
Fall down Suntower.

Hm. No Energy Tank there.
---
It'll be like Ghandi, except everyone's dancing!
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 6/7/2003 8:37:01 PM
Oh, and there is probably no way that I can think of that you can skip the Varia Suit, even if you could get through Magmoor without it.

The problem lies with the Artifact in the Sunchamber. In all probability, the Chozo Ghosts for the artifact probably will not be triggered to appear until after Flaahgra is dead. However, when the battle against Flaahgra begins, the door behind you is secured tightly with vines (which don't diappear until after you get the artifact in the Sunchamber). After defeating Flaahgra, the Varia Suit appears. You'd think you could just Space Jump around it to the door behind it, but you can't. The door is locked until you grab the Varia Suit.

So attempting to skip the Varia Suit is worthless, really.
---
It'll be like Ghandi, except everyone's dancing!
From: Dark00Stirfry | Posted: 6/7/2003 8:43:16 PM
Could someone please give me tips on how to get up Ore Processing with out the spiderball. The strategy over at prime disocoveries was maddening.

Also how on earth did CAL get under 2:00?! i'm stuggling to get under 3:30! Thanks!
From: Dark00Stirfry | Posted: 6/7/2003 9:11:20 PM
Hey kip the vids over at http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/
only play for a couple of seconds and then the video freezes but the audio is still active. Is there a driver/codec problem with my comp? please respond soon or drop me an email at Dark00Stirfry@yahoo.com. thanks.
From: kip | Posted: 6/7/2003 9:20:14 PM
the vids won't play correctly unless you have the divx 5.0.3 codec or higher (can be downloaded for free at www.divx.com). although for some people, they still can't view them even though they have it. i'm not sure why.

anyway, i've been thinking of mpeging every vid on the site so no one will have trouble viewing them (and keeping the divx versions around).
From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/7/2003 9:55:15 PM
Good night
Some Metroid Quarentine A Videos anyone?

Have been searching for awhile and i cant seem to find them
Is there anyplace to download?.

Oh! the magic word..... please.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/7/2003 10:12:38 PM
the Chozo Ghosts for the artifact probably will not be triggered to appear until after Flaahgra is dead

Well I can INSTANTLY prove that theory wrong. I have the AR2 and I used the moonjump code to get up the suntower before fighting flaahgra, and lo and behold, the chozo ghost fight was triggered. But get this, the Plant in the middle was MISSING.

Yet the ghosts could still stand on it, even tho it wasn't there... So the whole game without Varia might be possible, as it appears that only select parts of Magmoor actually harms you from extreme heat, not all of it...

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: kip | Posted: 6/7/2003 11:34:59 PM
"So the whole game without Varia might be possible, as it appears that only select parts of Magmoor actually harms you from extreme heat, not all of it..."

what parts would that be? you've got the elevator rooms, and according to the thermal visor, magmoor workstation. are there any others?

i think skipping varia would work fine if someone got to phen without it, just once. because then you'd have boost and you'd only be getting more energy tanks from that point on. but of course, no one has made it to phen so...
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/8/2003 12:13:43 AM
if you use the code junkies inf health code (then save the game) then turn the game off and turn it back on it will create a bug that give you 3 health boxes and 3 extra % but you can go to a normal save station and not the ship you will get aditional health boxes everytime you visit the station and it wont afect your percentage thats the only way i did it without the game noticing that i was cheating
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Ikaruga prototype: 5,500,000 name *sodohobo*
metroid prime 39%/speed 2:05
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 6/8/2003 11:09:19 AM
garr... did anything ever come of the power bomb exp. in magmoor? (trying to get it b4 ice beam).... i wouldnt mind the exp pre ice....

also... how are people consistently getting back to sun chamber... the bomb jumping seems too spastic to get a rhythm goin.... (mind you im quite competent at them in super metroid)... any tips?
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MP Nrm 3:02 100% Hrd 5:02 100%
From: Dark00Stirfry | Posted: 6/8/2003 1:39:34 PM
Lazy, You should go to the site posted on page 31. Make sure you have the 5.3 DIVX codec before viewing. Sun Tower w/o spider ball has some crazy bomb ladder skills. But it will definitely give you an idea of how to do it.
Thanks Kip!!!
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 6/8/2003 2:45:26 PM
Thanks... i'll see if that doesnt help....

can you beat op with four charged plasma beam shots on normal?
---
Time management is the key... I'm getting too old and becoming too busy to devote all my time to one game!
From: barn788 | Posted: 6/8/2003 5:24:03 PM
Could someone help me. I played a sequence breaking game and got the plamsa beam really early in the game. When I got in the gravity chamber I melted the icecle on the celing but now I cannot use the grapple beam point.
----------------------------
Know how to keep an idiot busy? Look at the line below.
Know how to keep an idiot busy? Look at the line above.
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/8/2003 7:46:41 PM
Bam: Facing the missile expansion and grapple point such that you're on a solid platform, and the points go Wall -> expansion -> Side barrier -> Grapple point, there'll be a small platform on the left that you'll be able to L-lock space jump from to the expansion.

---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/8/2003 11:16:41 PM
I was just thinking about it, and if we tried for a no Varia game (talking if anyone ever gets to Phen without it) for 22%, it wouldn't work because of the sun chamber. The only ways we've been able to do it is immediately after fighting Flaahgra (where we HAVE to get the Varia to proceed), or with the spider ball (thus making it another 23% run). And unless people can find a way to get that artifact in the life grove (the name of which I can't remember at the moment) without the boost ball, or to damage OP without the X-Ray visor, it doesn't really look like we can make these low % runs any lower (of course, we've seen some amazing things done before, so who knows for sure?).
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/9/2003 3:15:03 AM
I can now shed some official light on what happens in a no Varia game and with getting through Magmoor without the Varia.

Things I noticed to be FACT: (Please note I started a file from scratch with both Inf Energy and Moonjump codes to see what would happen).

1. If you get up the Suntower WITHOUT going round the front way first and get the Artifact of Wild BEFORE Flaahgra, then if you try the front way Fllahgra will NOT appear. At all. Infact, his flower is still missing (as is what happens when you go up sunchamber 1st).

2). This now means that collecting the Varia at the END of the game (to say, get 100%) is IMPOSSIBLE and so is 100% scans.

2). By skiiping BOTH the Varia and Gravity suits, I have obtained the Phazon suit and noticed some very interesting things:

i). The animation after OP falls on you (where you see urself wearing the new Phazon suit) is different, the in-game cut-scene shows you as obtaining the varia suit, yet when you morph, you now wear the Phazon suit in black.

ii). However, what's even MORE interesting, is that while the phazon suit protects you from SOME phazon, it doesn't manage to protect you from ALL of it (notibly the Artifact after OP which is in the tunnel of Phazon. You can get so far in it ok, until almost by the artifact, when it starts to damage you!! o_O).

iii). Also, seeing as you don't have the gravity suit, the Phazon suit does NOT allow you to walk freely in water, and you can't do this until you grab the Gravity suit...

3). I plan on doing a no-varia game again, to record the end when she's at Meta-Ridly without the Phazon suit and the
ending itself. Should be interesting.

4). When you grab the spiderball without the Varia suit, your spiderball colour is now purple.

I have loads of screenshots of such events of the varia-less run game, and a few movies of what happens at certain cut-scenes also.

Any questions about varia-less games, then please post them here and I'll be more than happy to answer them if I can.

Oh, and Kip, the area of Magmoor that DOESN'T harm you without the varia suit is ANY area AFTER the Twin Fires route (e.g. Geothermal Core etc).

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: scizor213 | Posted: 6/9/2003 8:09:41 AM
Is the gravity suit messed up at all if you get it without the viara and phazon?
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i NO i KANT SPEL http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4923289
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/9/2003 8:22:36 AM
Not sure, as I got the Phazon suit before getting the Gravity suit. Might try that later tonight tho if I get the chance to.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: MegatronLives | Posted: 6/9/2003 11:13:05 AM
Sun Tower Question:

I can bomb my way up to the very top of the trench almost every try, but in about 500 tries, I have only made it from the trench back onto the ledge like 3 times... anybody got any tips on getting back onto the ledge?

I try to let go of the stick when the last bomb blows to give some good height on the last bomb, then hold forward and morph, but most of the time, when I morph out, I am facing right instead of forward. The rest of the time I am facing forward, but still can't get to the ledge.
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c'mon next tier of membership... I post all 30 of my messages by noon every day...
From: kip | Posted: 6/9/2003 12:35:22 PM
any area after twin fires? have you tried any other parts (like say transport tunnel a or any room after lava lake)?
From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/9/2003 12:39:54 PM
Can anyone, please, help this fella with some Metroid Quarentine A videos, without using the spider ball?

I searched for them with no luck.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/9/2003 12:46:46 PM
@Kip: any area after twin fires? have you tried any other parts (like say transport tunnel a or any room after lava lake)?

It appears that the only safe areas without the varia suit is any of the rooms directly after Twin Fires. Otherwise, it's a defanite no-go.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: HenchCubed | Posted: 6/9/2003 4:14:56 PM
I have a question for a spiderball-less game...

How do you get up the Sun Tower w/out the SB?!
---
"It's just like it is with the stars: there are bright ones and there are those that are dim." - Outlaw Star
From: MegatronLives | Posted: 6/9/2003 4:48:14 PM
I am posting this link because someone posted it for me when i needed a video; but i'd like to know who to give credit to, and if it is cool to give the link out

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

watch the video "sun_tower_wo_spider"
---
c'mon next tier of membership... I post all 30 of my messages by noon every day...
From: kip | Posted: 6/9/2003 4:59:02 PM
refreshment: sorry man, i don't have a video of mqa.
From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/9/2003 9:01:16 PM
So you cant skip the spider ball? Since there isnt a video on any place or detailed strategy to pass Metroid Quarentine A. Dont understand, everything is so well documented exept for this specifically.

But thanks for answering, see you guys later.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/9/2003 10:25:00 PM
Yes you can skip the spiderball, but nobody able to make a vid has made one. To get through mqa you have to power bomb the two walls, walk on top of the spider track to get to where the missile expansion is, then jump onto the bar that's in the direction of the door. Freeze a metroid near the middle, then go to the highest point on the bar. Lock onto the metroid and dash jump to the right, when you get near the door use your 2nd jump.
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 6/9/2003 11:54:53 PM
I made a vid of it. I thought I gave it to kip, but he might have deleted it.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
From: manofStele | Posted: 6/10/2003 3:32:55 AM
Stele swaggers into the bar and buys a round of drinks for everyone. And a whole pitcher just for DEVILBIT.

Just got that dash jump to get space jump first to work. Hell yeah, what a great trick. I hadn't touched Prime since running through it once on normal and once on hard back in the month after it was released. Sequence breaking looks fun though, so I'll give it a go with this SJ first and see where it leads.
---
With the blast shield down, I can't even see!
How am I supposed to fight?
From: Zanapher | Posted: 6/10/2003 8:07:10 AM
Trebor, Kip still has the video you made of mqa, and I can put it with the others videos if you want.

---
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Refreshment | Posted: 6/10/2003 10:26:10 AM
If you be kind enough to put the video up, that will be sooo nice.

I was doing that exactly Trebor, but couldnt align the jump with the platform.
Im not trying to piss on the lemonade here.

love this topic.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 6/10/2003 12:28:34 PM
wtf? Andrew did a no-Varia game? (yes, I know he used codes), but...wow.

---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 6/10/2003 12:44:24 PM
Also, I forgot to say this earlier, if anyone has a compilation of the MP Sequence Breaking High Scores list, I would like a copy of the current ones so MO can put them up under the Metroid Prime subsite.

-Tim
---
Site Admin, Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com
Espernet IRC Channel: #metroid-online
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/10/2003 1:09:31 PM
I used to update it, but then an incompetent updater took over... ::glares around:: nah, j/k

I think I might start again, both because the list is hardly ever updated anymore, and because I HATE the current list format.
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/10/2003 6:45:10 PM
Quick question: if you use the X-Ray visor on the cloaked sentry drone (in the fight to get the PBs) when you sequence break, does it actually show up, or is it still invisible? (I would check, but I don't have a save anywhere near there...)
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: DTaeKim | Posted: 6/10/2003 6:54:55 PM
It shows up. You still can't scan it though.
---
Forgotten_One
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/10/2003 6:56:10 PM
Hmm, figured as much...does it look just like a regular sentry?
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: kip | Posted: 6/10/2003 7:01:42 PM
pretty much... although iirc you can see the shield thing it has. also you can lock on to it with xray. =]
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/10/2003 7:09:53 PM
Nifty...although it's not like that thing lives very long with the Wavebuster anyway XD. Thanx for the info guys.
---
"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: LazyVeysey | Posted: 6/10/2003 10:15:33 PM
Andrew... you got the codes on the go.... can you try and get the ice spreader before the ice beam and see what happens?!
---
Time management is the key... I'm getting too old and becoming too busy to devote all my time to one game!
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/10/2003 11:17:52 PM
Hey, I'm talking with kip and another guy in IRC chat right now, and we need a few questions answered:

1) could the 'newlyfound' dash jump speed up some parts of the Varia-less magmoor run?
2) Andrew, this is for you: does the transport tunnel A in magmoor damage you w/o varia?

---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 6/11/2003 12:22:02 AM
Oh my God, it's DTK.

You just pop up everywhere, don't you?

So, you going to get in on this action?

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/11/2003 3:20:22 AM
2) Andrew, this is for you: does the transport tunnel A in magmoor damage you w/o varia?

What I can confirm for you is, is that EVERY room that is linked together AFTER Twin Fires (Geo Thermal Core, the big area with the flying space pirates etc - forgot the name =/ )

ALL of these are fine without the Varia suit. the rest are NOT.

Also, made an excellent discovery, that will allow low % runners to skip the crashed frigate ENTIRELY!
However, it's not fully developed as of yet, so maybe people here can work on it...

I have discovered that it is possible to fit through the metal bars in the great tree room when in morphball mode.

Now, I done this while using the MoonJump code in my no-varia game originally and it works ALL the time.

I made a video of it last night:

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/past_tree_bars.mpg (650k)

My suggestion is to try DBJ'ing into the top RIGHT corner of the bars and then BOOSTING through (boosting through seems to be essential).

Haven't managed to do it normally yet, but it IS physically possible. Would save a LOT of headaches with the Hydro Access wo Grav problems and be a LOT faster too...

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/11/2003 5:29:32 AM
We should rather find a way without boost. I can smell 22%. So Everything left is Life Groove Artifact and Plasma.

You alread tried my bomb-spin method, kip?
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 6/11/2003 12:33:19 PM
We ran into a slight problem when Kip gave it a go awhile back...when you bomb jump up there, you loose any boost charge...and while you can get stuck *briefly* on the bars, it may not be enough time to charge up a boost. Also, so far attempts trying to use a bomb to push you through havn't worked well either. If someone wants to give it a try, by all means do...we could use some help seeing if we can't get the timing down perfect.

Also, as for the 22% thing...we still have two serious problems *if* we can get this to work without moonjump. Life Grove Artifact(you have to use the spinner but it seems to only work with boost), and Geothermal Core(although I do think a way *might* be found through that).

But even if this does work without moonjump, and a way is found around Geo, I fear that Lifegrove *may* become the X-ray/OP of a boost ball skip.
---
Solr_Flare
From: z0idi | Posted: 6/11/2003 3:36:14 PM
hi all,

I just made it past the great tree hall gate without cheats (PAL). I only tried once and I'm not quite sure how I've done it, but I will try to explain better when I find a way to do it constantly.

I think I made a double bomb jump on the right side of the gate (not touching it) and boosted during the upward movment after bomb 3 (pressing forward). the whole move looked very 'smooth', I jumped right through that small gap between the gate and the ceiling without being hindered.

nice discovery, Andrew.

respectfully,
z0idi
From: z0idi | Posted: 6/11/2003 4:47:38 PM
ha!

you don't even need boost.

Unfortunately I have no possibility to make vids and am very tired right now, but here are a few tips that might help.

-
you pass the gate exactly at the spot in andrew's video
- don't touch the gate, just be close to it. move toward it at the last possible moment (but you must still be moving upward)
- don't do a normal dbj. set bomb 3 as soon as possilbe after bomb 2 (should be somewhere near the middle of your first jump). this will give you an enormous upward momentum and a little more height I guess
-

good night
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/11/2003 5:10:18 PM
This might actually make me play Prime again, tomorrow.

So, let's concentrate on the Life Groove Spinner, or a way to get the artifact without the spinner, and maybe only a bit on geo, but if we can manage the life groove spinner, we most likely will be able to repeat it with geo.
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/11/2003 5:19:06 PM
I'm going back into updating and I've made a few changes. The list is back to normal, for those who couldn't see it very well, like me. Also, since it is impossible for PAL players to compete with NTSCers, I have made 5 slots rather than 3, with the last 2 being reserved for PAL. From this point forth, for every time that makes the list, note the category, time, percentage, and NTSC/PAL. And also please BOLD it.

I'm getting back into Metroid Prime as well, but I suck at making up speed runs. So can kip or CAL please post the route they used for their NTSC records?

List next post.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/11/2003 5:21:19 PM
Metroid Prime High Scores

Normal any%
1. kip 1:35 (34%)
2. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
3. Radix37 1:52 (45%)
4. Andrew Mills 1:57 (40%) <<<PAL>>>
5.

Hard any%
1. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
2. Radix37 2:04 (46%)
3. CAL Foolio 2:49 (100%)
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Normal Low%
1. TreborSelbon 2:58 (23%)
2. TreborSelbon 2:55 (24%)
3. Gold Leader 4:09 (24%)
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard Low%
1. kip 4:00 (24%)
2. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
3.
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Normal 100%
1. CAL Foolio 2:19
2. Lazy Veysey 3:02
3. Urazz Izmine 3:17
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard 100%
1. CAL Foolio 2:49
2. Varsis Erion 3:50
3. SteelWingX 6:50
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Best Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
1. kip 4:22.05
2. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
3. zell99 4:15.39
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/11/2003 5:56:43 PM
Wow. I just did Life Grove without Boost.

I did have the Gravity suit, however, so I'm not exactly sure how that effects it. Also, I *do* have Boost, I just didn't use it, so I'm not sure if that effects it either.

Anyway, get in the spinner in the water. Somehow, I bombed myself where I was still stuck in the spinner, but I could move. I just got in the spinner, and set a bomb or two, and got stuck. Not sure if that's exact, though. Play around with it. Now, when you're stuck where you can move in the spinner, put your right hand on the analog, and quickly move it between Up-Up/Right-Right. You should spin decently fast, and cause the thing to turn.

Someone want to try this in a non-Grav game? I don't have one anywhere close.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/11/2003 6:12:03 PM
I just did it again, and they're are some finer points that I need to establish.

First, to get stuck in, is very simple. Get in the spinner, hold up-left, bomb while holding up-left, keep on holding up-left, and whenever you get stuck in next you'll be able to move. Easy.

Also, holding up-up/right-right isn't correct. It depends. Sometimes it's different. Just now, I had to move it down-left, and the moving bar went halfway around it's course. So, experiment with that, because the direction isn't always the same, and the amount of movement you need isn't always the same either. Last time I had to gyrate the control very fast to move the bar, but as I said, this time a simple tap down-left will spin the thing halfway around.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/11/2003 6:15:52 PM
Eh, and I forgot to add that someone should try this on the Geothermal Core spinners. I'm going to hurry up and get Varia to try and do it, but it may take a little while.
From: kip | Posted: 6/11/2003 6:20:50 PM
"Someone want to try this in a non-Grav game? I don't have one anywhere close."

i'll look at it, as well as give great tree hall another shot. imo, you should look at geo core and ventilation shaft.

if life grove can be done without grav and the bars thing works in ntsc (i see no reason why it shouldn't), it means:

1) geo is the only room left to skip boost period

2) geo and ventilation shaft are the only rooms left to lower % again (unless vent shaft was solved before? if so, need to know the method)

the bars trick means that hydro access without boost and without grav needs no solution, since you can just skip the frigate even without a pbomb expansion.
From: kip | Posted: 6/11/2003 6:54:22 PM
was messing around in geo a bit and noticed something: if you go in the second spinner and place a bomb to get out, but you intentionally stay in the spinner for a moment (i was holding up), then you try to leave by holding down-right to get out, you can make the spinner jump up almost halfway. i'm just not sure how to make it keep going after it jumps.

so basically, go in the spinner, put a bomb, then samus isn't "stuck" in the spinner and it allows you to leave by holding down, but only for a second. if you wait a while she becomes stuck in the spinner again and you can't leave without using another bomb. what you try to do is attempt to leave right when she gets stuck again; that's what seems to make the spinner jump. maybe this can lead to something, i don't know.

back to getting to life grove.
From: kip | Posted: 6/11/2003 7:03:42 PM
oh, you probably know this already, but just in case: you don't need to use the first spinner to reach the third. and it's common knowledge that the third can be raised without boost, because it's glitched somehow (i just did it again a bit ago in a no boost game). it's not hard to do.

but the bomb slot above the second spinner needs to be reached. i'm not sure if you need to raise the second spinner to get inside before she falls too far.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/11/2003 7:17:26 PM
Kip, are you saying that it's impossible to get permanently "stuck" inside the Geothermal Core spinner?

Because that sounds a lot like what I did in Life Grove, except you left the spinner. Basically, get stuck inside the spinner where Samus stays in the spinner but can still roll around, and roll in a direction that makes the spinner raise.

So, if you got stuck in the spinner where you could still move, and held down, I think the spinner would raise into place. You just didn't get stuck in right, I guess.
From: kip | Posted: 6/11/2003 7:22:22 PM
nah, i doubt it's impossible. i'll look at it again in a bit, trying to confirm the other things. =P
From: ChaosZero001 | Posted: 6/11/2003 7:53:14 PM
Since this topic has so much messages i dont know if this has being brought up(probably not). But heres how to get the Artifact of the Life Giver(i think thats wut its called the place where u get the wavebuster) without the gravity suit. Be cautioned, this can be extremely hard to pull off:
1. Go to the bottom and to the wall that u normally cant jump over and up without the gravity suit
2.Hold R and look up as high as u can and hit L
3. Hold L (and if u havnt already) go up as close as u can to the wall, still looking up with L.
4.Now this will get tricky, jump while pushing forward and when u almost get the peak of ur jump push back and jump pushing forward again. For some reason while looking up u can jump much higher, and if u dont push back at the peak u will get stuck by a piece of wall that sticks out a little. If you do this correctly u can go up without the gravity suit
This is really hard to pull off, and I dont know if its just my game. i only done this twice, so dont be discouraged if u cant do it.
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When you are on the toilet you must grunt to get the **** out
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/11/2003 7:57:36 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I discovered that way back in December. And it's one of the easiest sequence breaking tricks in the book.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: kip | Posted: 6/11/2003 8:02:55 PM
i can't get stuck in the life grove spinner without grav but still be able to move, so far though. anyone else trying it?
From: kip | Posted: 6/11/2003 8:23:07 PM
ok, i just did the great tree hall thing (in ntsc). i didn't even have boost so there's no way that you need it for that. i guess i'll make a vid later since i got it on vcr.

right now i'm trying to remove the bars by using the spinner without boost. you can trigger the "jump" thing like with some of the geo spinners to almost make them go away, but i can't seem to trigger the thing kyuenjin is talking about where you can still move inside the spinner (except the 3rd spinner in geo, that one is really easy for some reason).

if i can't get it soon i'll just leave it alone for now and go back to the other rooms. removing the bars wouldn't be necessary to finish a 22% game anyway.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/11/2003 8:52:21 PM
Can anyone give me some tips on double jumping out of the lava in the Twin Fires Tunnel jump? I've never been able to do this very well, and I've probably tried about 50 times already.
From: kip | Posted: 6/11/2003 9:06:57 PM
i got grav without saving and easily did life grove without boost, took about 10 seconds. i didn't have boost, so at least we know it isn't that. having grav might affect this somehow, but i'll blame myself instead. =P

hope you can take another look at it without grav, i'm running out of ideas.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/11/2003 9:40:57 PM
Screw the Twin Fires Tunnel. I went and got Spider Ball.

Anyway, I was trying Geothermal Core, and I see what you were saying earlier, Kip. I am, however, trying to find a way to make the spinner raise anyway.

I'll try Life Grove without Grav whenever I figure out Geothermal Core, or whenever I deem Geothermal Core impossible.
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 6/11/2003 10:22:18 PM
Ok, I'm dead serious. You guys need to write a sequence-breaking FAQ.
From: CtrlAltDestroy2 | Posted: 6/11/2003 10:23:40 PM
You guys need to write a sequence-breaking FAQ. I'm dead serious.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/11/2003 10:49:57 PM
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid

We have MPD, so a SB FAQ would be quite unnecessary. MPD has all the info, and in a much easier format to read than a FAQ would.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: Valdek | Posted: 6/11/2003 11:12:16 PM
You guys are doing a great job. Stretching the limits of a game is always fun, and adds a nice amount of replay value.

Kyuenjin, could you please log on Trillian so we can talk? Thanks.

---
"Peace is a gift of the grave and only found in the silence of the tomb."
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/11/2003 11:12:50 PM
Got tired of Geothermal, so I've been working on Life Grove. Seems that the spinner won't let you get stuck inside of it and still move unless you have the Gravity Suit.

Which means that as long as someone can find out Geothermal Core without Boost, we can skip Boost, but not Grav.

Personally, in a 23% game I would much rather have Grav than Boost, but hey, that's just me.

Anyway, keep trying. Someone will figure something out. I'm going to play some Chrono Trigger.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/11/2003 11:50:50 PM
Hmm...I'm on a new warm-up run, to prepare for a potential speed run (could someone post the record NTSC route please?). Anyway, I used the PB expansion to skip the frigate, and when I got to the Mines, I went the back way to the room where the Phazon Elite is (forgot name), and there was an invisible wall blocking passage to the rest of the room cuz I hadn't blown it up yet. So my question is, will that wall be there forever? Can I trigger it to stop existing, or get past it somehow? Cuz otherwise I'll have to go thru the mines the regular way, and I don't wanna do that...
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
From: kip | Posted: 6/12/2003 12:07:44 AM
you can go through that wall thanks to a method treb found. check out the "elite research wall" vid:

http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/

description: sj into the wall and get stuck, then morph. put bombs until samus doesn't go any higher from their explosions, then use moderate/fully charged boosts for about 30 seconds (holding up or up-right from this point on). either she will boost through the wall after a while or not. if she doesn't, try to get her out and try it again.

that wall isn't really invisible, it just looks that way from the back of the room. it's the wall the mining cannon is supposed to destroy.

also, a note: if you didn't remove the forcefield in main quarry earlier, it seems you won't be able to do anything when you get there, so instead if you want to go through the elite research wall, you should do that, then get the warrior artifact and leave by destroying the wall, instead of trying to go to main quarry. hope that makes sense. =P
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/12/2003 5:32:35 AM
http://thps3.net/Videos/MP-GTH-No Boost-Pal.wmv

Something pretty important is to line up yourself. You're heading for the area right below the ^-like part of the top wall. The DBJ itsself is pretty easy, Just lay the 3rd bomb at about 2/3 of your first ascend.
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/12/2003 6:21:49 AM
Hiya, I'm glad to see my idea for getting past the great tree bars has worked, that should help all low % runners now that crashed frigate can be skipped completely =)

Haven't managed to pull the trick off myself just yet, but I know it's 100% possible without boost, so I shall try it some more.

I also have a - very good - theory about waste disposal lock on PAL and what triggers it to dissapear, hopefully getting rid of that problem on our speed runs. I'll test that more tonight to see what I can do =D

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 6/12/2003 4:07:12 PM
...
I just got here after not coming for three months...
NO spiderball seemed a possibility.
Using a missile expansion for a missile launcher? Strange, don't know how, won't ask.
But Space-jump as the first item?! We couldn't do it with Morph-ball and bombs...
---
"One man's creativity is another's brain damage." - Roland Fisher
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/12/2003 5:48:16 PM
Hi.

Sugestion:

Try to get to Omega Pirate by the back through procesing center. Maybe using a similar method.

Tried this sometime ago withouth succes but maybe now, who knows.

This could be very helpfull in low percent runs and no SJ.

Thanks for the time.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/12/2003 5:53:37 PM
Forgot:

Congratulations Zoidi.

This thing was tried back in the prehistoric days of breacking this game to no avail.

And some persistence and a good double bomb jump those the trick. Very nice.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/12/2003 6:08:27 PM
Congratulations Zoidi

?????????? o_O ??????????

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Amasawa | Posted: 6/12/2003 8:05:52 PM
Cool discoveries, kyuenjin and Andrew (and zoidi, for confirming that you could bomb jump through w/o boost). A no-boost game seems to be creeping ever closer.

btw kyuenjin, mad props on the suntower discovery again. I've tried it quite a few times but still haven't managed it yet, (though I'm sure the new controller I borrowed will help =]) so it's that much more impressive to me to think of how someone discovered it in the first place.

---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/12/2003 8:07:42 PM
Woa. I have a lot to say about latent happenings, but they'll have to wait until I get back tommorrow. I hadn't looked for three weeks... and, Devilbit, you're awesome. My precious little dash jump just grew up into a major sequence breaking move thanks to you.
From: dartsarecool9 | Posted: 6/12/2003 8:47:55 PM
Do you guys want any help with the site? I noticed there's still a lot that needs to be updated. If you want my help just let me know.
---
I want everyone to know that I'm lost.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/12/2003 9:11:34 PM
Hi.

Mr. Amasawa good to see some text from you, taking advantage of your presence need to ask this:
how far did you take the no SJ game?

Was thinking the other day about some tricky rooms and the main power bomb area poped into the mind, how did you manage to get out of there?

This room (power bomb), GEO, some of the fungals, and the crater are very interesting.

Mr. Varsis, didnt know that outstanding machination (dash jump) was your creation, exellent.
Some times this thing brings memories of the speed booster in SM, a single dash jump flys you pass that gap in the Quarry, incredible.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/12/2003 9:50:38 PM
Meh. I'm saved in Magmoor, near the entrance to the mines, with no PBs. Where could I get some? Also, it would be really helpful if someone would write up a list of enemies that give PB refills.

And could someone PLEASE tell me the speed run route for NTSC? Just major item to major item.
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
From: tfd | Posted: 6/12/2003 10:38:57 PM
Can anyone give tips on how to DBJ-morph out of the deep lava in Magmoor's transport tunnel (?) on the way to Geothermal Core for the plasma beam? I'm trying to get to GEO without spider ball. I've got about four energy tanks, and I cannot get out of the lava in that tunnel. I never seem to hit bomb 3 right, or I don't morph out right, or something.

I know that there is a slowdown when passing through the surface of the lava, so the DBJ timing has to be somewhat different. But I can't get it. I think that bomb 3 needs to be planted sooner than in an air DBJ; does that seem right?

I've seen the video, and I've watched my son do it once or twice. I need more help.
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/13/2003 3:30:52 AM
@tfd:

You DO need to place bomb 3 on the way up, about 1/2 way up than the "normal" height, and then push forward and X to unmorph in the right direction at the right height.

I practiced it with Inf Energy, but it STILL took a while to get. practice, by saving at the main ship, and just keep trying.

---------------------

Also, I believe to have discovered the "trigger" for removing the Lock on the Waste Disposal door in PAL. It appears that the X-Ray Visor is the trigger, as in my last run, I just got the PB's in the Phazon Mines, left straight away without killing anyone, or collecting anything else, and then got the X-Ray Visor. I then boosted through the Great Tree bars down to the front entrance of the Mines, and Low and BEHOLD! The Lock on the waste disposal door was gone!

I haven't had a chance yet, to re-try this, to confirm it 100%, so if anyone gets a chance to before I do, just try that, to confirm it for defanite.

If this IS the trigger, then it very well may help us PAL speed runners (although not NTSC, as the lock isn't there).

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/13/2003 3:51:23 AM
Just remembered, I'd advise whoever it is, to NOT get the Power Bombs, and just use the expansion that you get at PE, get the X-ray visor ONLY (and NOT the artifact as well) and then DBJ over the bars to see if the lock has gone at the waste disposal door.

Obviously this ONLY applys to PAL players. This is just in case I can't get a chance to confirm this 100% tonight (although I'm about 99% certain it is).

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/13/2003 5:10:55 AM
YOu have to lay the 3rd Bomb later than usual. I never found it hard, in fact, I never failed.
---
"I've won several tournaments with the target, but I've never won with Sandbag. So sandbag is the worst." ~ r1k
From: Guoshima | Posted: 6/13/2003 10:52:27 AM
took a few tries for the 2BJ, but the easiest thing to do is roll completely to edge and do the 2BJ there. Not in the open lava but next to the wall. This is how I did it, and now it works every time.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/13/2003 2:23:13 PM
Hi.

To correct a mistake.

"Congratulations Mills and Mr. Zoidi"

Apologize to the rest of the poster for wasting topic space on this but tough it was important.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/13/2003 2:25:35 PM
Thanks for that Devilbit... much appreciated. =)

Just didn't want to see my effort go uncredited...

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Amasawa | Posted: 6/13/2003 3:49:27 PM
devilbit -- I haven't done anything new with the no-sj game in a while. I was working on just completing the game without sj first before trying to skip other items also, figuring it would be less frustrating, so I haven't considered any possibilities for the fungal halls yet. I know kip's also had a lot of success working toward a no-sj game since we've been sharing information about it in chat; maybe some other people have also?

Anyway, considering info I know about from you, kip, the person credited for discovering how to exit Life Grove wo sj (sorry, can't recall who discovered that gem), and my own experience, I think the only rooms still standing in the way of completing the game without sj (not skipping other items) are geo core for plasma and getting to the top of Phazon Core in the impact crater. Some of the rooms between the main pbomb pickup and Omega Pirate can't be tested in a no-sj game until someone gets plasma, as kip pointed out, but it doesn't seem like anything there would impede progress unless you were skipping other items.

To get out of the room where the main pbomb pickup is, tbjm from the top of the computer panel that's below the door you came in through.

One thing I think is nice for a no sj game regarding the new discovery that you can bomb jump over the gate in the middle of Great Tree Hall is that it's no longer hell to get out of the phazon mines after getting main pbomb pickup (and grapple if you're not skipping other items). The only way out confirmed before was by climbing the Phazon Processing Center (the room that's a couple behind where Omega Pirate is), and it's extremely frustrating because of how easy it is to miss a jump, fall to the bottom, and be forced to start over. Now, however, you can go through the frigate in reverse instead if you get the gravity suit first (Getting out of phendrana without grav in a no sj game is not particularly easy either, but it's better than the ppc in my opinion.) This wasn't possible to do before because no one had found a solution yet for how to reach one of the floating platforms in the cargo freight lift in the frigate (in a game where you have grav but not sj), so there was no way into the phazon mines in a no sj game unless you skipped grav also.

---
Metroid E-Comic English script notes -- vol2.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/amasawa/Metroid_E-Comic_EnglishScript.htm
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/13/2003 5:06:04 PM
I accomplished something I never thought I would... I finished a 23% game. It took me about 25 tries to beat OP, then today I beat ridley and MP on the first try. I didn't save after ridley because the time was not that good. My time ended up at 2:37, but I should be able to get that down at least 4 minutes. That puts me in 1st place for normal low % ;-)

Oh and to whoever is doing the top 3 list, you forgot the 4:05 for hard 100% posted by Gold Leader back on page 10 (may 27th).
From: TreborSelbon | Posted: 6/13/2003 8:57:16 PM
Congrats Radix.

---
Marie is a stunning woman with a body to die for, and you think I'm only interested in her mind? How shallow do you think I am? ~ Frasier
From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/14/2003 4:34:16 AM
I made a completely unimportant but fun and somewhat useful discovery a few weeks ago, but I lost internet access and had been unable to post. In the Crossway in the Ruins, you can get the Missle Expansion on your first pass in an early Ice Beam 100% game, so as to save time. You don't need the Super Missles. If you go to the high side, there is a tall metal grate going up to the ceiling. You can SJ up it (try strafing into it) and reach the top of the room. Look across the way, and you will see three small broken pipes on the wall. Jump across to the highest one. From there, step forward and do a SJ up to the rafters. You will just BARELY make the jump, and be careful not to overshoot it. Then move across the rafters to the side of the room with the Missle Exp. Get onto the the rafter directly above it, then morph and drop down while holding forward. You should get it; this trick has worked every time for me. I'll be getting back to doing runs soon now that I'm out of school, and I also got an AR to test some theories.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/14/2003 7:54:19 AM
I can now OFFICIALLY confirm what the PAL Waste Disposal trigger is, and it's NOT the X-Ray visor as I once thought.

The trigger is simply the main Power Bomb. I have made a video of this (using my trusted MoonJumping for less hassle) showing not only the waste disposal door in PAL with the lock OFF, but i also DIDN'T collect the X-Ray visor.

Also - for fun - you'll notice the two stationary space pirates in the movie, they obviously don't get "triggered" until the pirate at the control deck sees you...

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/pal_waste_trigger.mpg (1.6 Megs)

This may still prove helpful to PAL speed runners, once they have collected the X-Ray visor, and need to start their 2nd run into the mines, they can now just get to waste disposal by dash jumping from a baddie, and go as normal...

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: JDAdams | Posted: 6/14/2003 8:02:55 AM
Andrew - did you collect the grapple beam? I didn't, and the Waste Disposal door is still locked, despite having collected the main power bombs and, indeed, having finished the game. BTW, I'm assuming that you're the same 'Andrew Mills, Londonderry' from the N64 days:)

---
Mastered: Luigi's Mansion, Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Eternal Darkness, Super Mario Sunshine,
Lost Kingdoms, Starfox Adventures. See quote for details
From: Krudmuffins | Posted: 6/14/2003 9:15:37 AM
[This message was deleted by a GameFAQs Moderator]
From: dartsarecool9 | Posted: 6/14/2003 10:16:54 AM
I didn't exactly get an answer so I'll ask again. Do you guys want me to help you with the web page to speed up the updates? I'll happily help you.
---
I want everyone to know that I'm lost.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/14/2003 11:41:39 AM
Oops, I'll get that next update.

And sorry to be annoying, but I really want that any% speed route. Nobody has even acknowledged that I asked...could someone just post it, or link me to it?
---
Opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one.
From: manofStele | Posted: 6/14/2003 12:11:19 PM
I've seen you Videogaming, but I can't really help. I just started sequence breaking myself. I've been using the speed walkthrough by _Tim_. It's for 100% in 2 hours and something. Just leave out some things you don't want, and it gives you a decent guide to go by.

Don't think it's up to date here with the SJ first. You can get an up to date copy at Metroid Online: http://metroid.retrofaction.com/

It's under the Metroid Prime section, real easy to find.
---
With the blast shield down, I can't even see!
How am I supposed to fight?
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/14/2003 12:50:44 PM
JDAdams: Andrew - did you collect the grapple beam? I didn't, and the Waste Disposal door is still locked, despite having collected the main power bombs and, indeed, having finished the game. BTW, I'm assuming that you're the same 'Andrew Mills, Londonderry' from the N64 days:)

Nope, simply got the main Power Bombs, left, and then got over the metal bars in the Great Tree to the main phazon mines entrance.

And you'd be correct in thinking that it's Andrew Mills from Londonderry from N64 Mag (also from Dundee, well living in Dundee, those were my times also in that mag =)

Andrew Mills - Londonderry/Dundee: The MP Speed Monkey
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/14/2003 1:38:21 PM
I can also now make a few more confirmations, thanks to the cheating-wonders of the Action Replay 2...

1). If you get a PB Exp before even the Mball bombs themselves, you will NOT be given the MBall bombs automatically. However, you CAN still lay this PB like normal.

2). If you get the Ice Spreader BEFORE the Ice Beam, you do NOT magically have the Ice Beam afterwards. You DO get a cut-scene SHOWING the weapon equipped in your hand, alas, this is all it does.

Anybody want me to do any other test? I will do a run tomorrow of me beating Flaaghra LAST with ALL the beams and visors! =) I'll make a movie of it, and show you all the results of this little experiment.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey and N64 Magazine *Star*" Mills
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 6/14/2003 3:28:14 PM
Here is one...for consistancies sake, try Flame thrower before plasma.

Also, I don't know if there is a clipping cheat available in there, but if there is someway to test, just for the heck of it, morph ball bombs before morph ball, that would be nice to check out just to see what happens.

Also, before fighting OP, moonjump up and see if the door is accessable on the ramp up above.
---
Solr_Flare
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/14/2003 3:33:08 PM
Here's the route I used for my any % route. I asked for one about a month ago and nobody gave me one, but I figured I'd share the one I've got... I think it's the same one used by Cal and kip.

sj, missiles, morph ball, charge, bombs, varia, art wild, boost, wave, art nature, art lifegiver, ice, plasma, spider, super missile, art elder, thermal, pb exp, art spirit, pb, grapple, art world, x-ray, art chozo, art warrior, phazon suit, art newborn, art sun, art strength, art truth.

I just did that from memory, so I hope it's correct.
From: kip | Posted: 6/14/2003 6:23:34 PM
"Also, before fighting OP, moonjump up and see if the door is accessable on the ramp up above."

if it is, you could also try getting the energy tank without fighting him with every other item already gotten (except phazon suit). then see if it gives you the "you got 100% items" message. if it does, then we know for sure the "the phazon suit's % is added after you've gotten everything else" theory is wrong.
From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/14/2003 8:11:48 PM
can you start out with all the artifacts with AR ? cause then all you would need is rockets to get into the impact crater
---
Ikaruga prototype: 6,000,000 points name *sodohobo*
arcade normal game: 7,675,380 points
metroid prime 39%/speed 2:05
From: tfd | Posted: 6/14/2003 8:13:31 PM
I finally completed the DBJM out of the lava to cross the Twin Fires room without spiderball. I planted the third bomb kind of late, on the way down. I was not rolled all the up against the rock, but instead was half a meter back or so. Took about half an hour of frustrating tries.

Getting alive to the save station next to Magmoor Workstation was a thrill, due to stupidly falling in lava while fightig a Magmoor, and dealing with the three flying pirates in Workstation.

Then I was off to Geothermal Core, to use the encouragement from Donny to make the ghetto jump to the first spider block. After only three attempts at the jump, I was up! Gotta love the plasma beam! Those pirates now have to worry.

Next I went to Phendrana's Edge to get the PB expansion. Took a few tries at the jumps, but not too bad. I used the first PB to get the artifact. Now I just hope to get a refill before I head to the X-ray visor. (I managed to get up there the other day, but forgot that a PB was needed so had to turn back. Rats.)
---
-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/14/2003 8:32:25 PM
That idea about moonjumping up the platform in the OP fight had already crossed my mind....

Also, it appears that MP doesn't "give" you free items (eg, I never got any bombs when I got the PB Exp first). So I doubt getting the bombs would do anything. Also, getting the flamethrower b4 plasma - I think - would be pretty pointless, as it'll just have the same affect as the Ice Spreader.

I'll get on the case of the OP fight, as well as fighting Flaahgra last with all beams and visors.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Treize Knight | Posted: 6/14/2003 10:21:50 PM
So, just a quick inqury, but you can us GameShark or whatever the new one is in your Fastest Time rankings?

I don't have one, but it would make it rather unfair already. There is one little thing that I would like to work at. Just what is the best path through the Phazon Mines if you use sequence breaking? Such as, I already have the plasma beam...

Also, who ever said that you could keep the first theme of the Talon overworld? I wasn't able to do it. So can someone explain those fundimentals?

---
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place, and worth fighting for," I agree with the second part.
From: Radix37 | Posted: 6/14/2003 11:41:32 PM
Of course the top 3 rankings are without cheating, that should be obvious.

To keep the first tallon theme you have to never meet up with thardus, which means skipping the spider ball.
From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/15/2003 1:27:29 AM
Hmmmm... am I the only one who derives sick pleasure from PBing Thardus' core apart?

Not like it needs it, but...

Varsis "MP Speed BUMP" Erion
From: Guoshima | Posted: 6/15/2003 2:31:27 AM
A few questions:

Somebody wrote:
Then I was off to Geothermal Core, to use the encouragement from Donny to make the ghetto jump to the first spider block. After only three attempts at the jump, I was up! Gotta love the plasma beam! Those pirates now have to worry.

where can I use this Ghetto Jump. Does it make it easier to get the plasma beam ?

And if I take a look at Radix37 runthrough he takes quite a special route through the mines. It seams like after he gets the PB exp and art of spirit, at the edge, goes it into the mines, picks up PB, and grapple, and gets back out to pick up the X-Ray and the reenters the mines .. ? Is this shorter. Where do you leave the mines then. At the normal entrance ?

And Andrew, were you the one with the great Mario Kart N64 times. Especially Mario Circuit ?
From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/15/2003 3:44:56 AM
Somehow, it escaped me, and it is of course so obscure as to not be on the MPD yet. What was the solution to frost cave missile exp sans Grapple Beam? Just a dash jump off the hunter metroid, or something obscure like hidden ledges? Could someone please post about it?
From: kip | Posted: 6/15/2003 5:41:02 AM
frost cave without grapple has 2 methods. you know the wave door that leads to the morph ball tunnel on the way to phen's edge, you can space jump directly from the level of ground that door is on to the ledge you would normally land at only after grappling from the glider. it's pretty tough though, the jump has to be almost perfect. you have to run off the edge and jump at the last second, plus not hit the wall ahead of you while you're on the way to the ledge.

the other method is dash jumping from the wave door at the top of the room (the one next to the room with the ice beetles and scarabs). you can dash jump from the level of ground that door is on, or use the ledge just below it. also, you can use either the hunter metroid/flying pirates or the stalactite that hangs above the save point. you can only use the stalactite if it hasn't been shot down already though (it's possible to reach the save point without shooting it if you're curious).

if it's still there, the stalactite is really good for practicing because it never moves and won't attack you, plus you can lock on to it as if it was an enemy, so you can dash jump from it as many times as you want while practicing.

sorry for the info not being on mpd yet, but you guessed exactly why it's not: it's obscure. the thing we were trying to do first with mpd was get all the info up about the most "mainstream discoveries" like early ice/plasma, then the other stuff later. it's going to be a while before every single thing is well documented, so i'll apologize for that in advance to everyone.

also, note that if you go into the water and get the expansion without the gravity suit, you can certainly get out of the water, but you'll need to ghetto jump off of a low part of the stalactite where you can move against it (to gain the height required), then space jump out of the water.

i made videos of both frost cave methods but they aren't on zanapher's site; if you can come by the channel i'll gladly send you them if you want them.
From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/15/2003 6:06:28 AM
Thanks, kip. Sadly enough, I spent about 15 minutes attempting to dash jump and then, as an afterthought, tried the regular jump method and got it on my first try. If at first you do succeed, try not to look amazed... Anyway, thanks for the help. Also, is there any way I could help with updating those "obscure" MPD pages? I know most of the methods that aren't covered just from messing around, and I could write up the text to be put into those pages and E-mail to whoever can put it in (I know Zell doesn't update it himself anymore, but it's 6AM here and I'm too sleepy to remember who). Anyways, I need to go to bed. I'll finish this run tommorow, it's a heckuva lot faster than my previous Hard 100%, possibly sub-3:20. Cya
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/15/2003 6:30:59 AM
Treize Knight: So, just a quick inqury, but you can us GameShark or whatever the new one is in your Fastest Time rankings?
-----------
Guoshima: And Andrew, were you the one with the great Mario Kart N64 times. Especially Mario Circuit?

@Treize: Yes, I could very easily use moonjumping and infinite energy and infinite missiles on my speed runs. But I don't. I've only used them to test theories and do some extra wierd stuff. For example:

I know for a FACT that if you place a bomb at the top of geo thermal WITHOUT setting off ANY spinners to reach it normally (I done this with MoonJumping in Morphball mode), then you set off the roof as normal. But, if you leave the room by about 2 away, then come straight back, ALL of the spinners have opened as if you had done them normally!

SO, yes I could use it, but I don't, because I don't need to...

@Guoshima: I am indeed the very same Andrew. The same one that came 2nd in their National N64 Multi-player tournament as well...

I'm off to try out those OP and Flaahgra experiments. Later all.

Andrew "The Original MP Speed Monkey *Accept no imitations*" Mills
From: gamecubeman27 | Posted: 6/15/2003 6:59:59 AM
as of now i just finished my last run.
normal low% 23% 4:34
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/15/2003 10:47:15 AM
Here are the latest discoveries about my No-Varia game...

1). This is impressive... the Power Suit (the suit you start out with on Tallon Overworld) is immune to Phazon!!! I have made a video of it and uploaded this below. However, there is a certain - small - patch of Phazon that DOES damage you, but it's only in one place... where you pick up the artifact of Newborn. I have made a movie of this as well.

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/immune.mpg (805k)

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/crazy_phazon.mpg (583k)

It seems that Retro never anticipated anyone reaching the mines without the Varia, so never gave it any collision detection to Phazon... There's no danger message either.

2). Retro have appeared to fix the glitch that happened once you reached Meta-Ridley without the Phazon Suit. I had no problems in any of the cut-scenes when I was wearing only the Power Suit.

3). Using the "Give Phazon Beam" AR code, I was able to STILL use the phazon beam on MP's 2nd form, even without the Phazon Suit! In the ending movie, she is seen wearing the power suit and MP takes this off, revealing ANOTHER Power Suit on underneath (obviously, Samus was well prepared this time, unlike in her previous games!). But as soon as she is seen standing on her ship, she is wearing the Gravity suit.

4). If you get the PB exp in Magmoor before Sheegoth, the boss goes down after only ONE PB! That's it, dead.

5). The door in OP's room at the top is locked when you go anywhere near him. The cut-scene skips to you on the ground, but then u re-appear BACK up on the walkway, door locked... =(

6). Here is the footage I took of me versus Flaahgra with all the beams and visors. I have noted that you can NOT shoot the panels up with the other beams, even when you charge them... But Flaahgra CAN be damaged with the beams directly.

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/flaahrga_all.mpg (1.5 Megs)

If I discover more, then it shall be posted here. Out.

Andrew "The Original MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: kip | Posted: 6/15/2003 11:02:30 AM
cool stuff man. how funny that the power suit is immune to phazon except for that one bit at newborn.

anyways, anyone got ideas on what to do now? we've found so much that it's becoming hard to find more stuff now. no boost/sj is being looked into as it should, because those are probably the last items with any chance of being skipped or lowering the %. both of them are very close to being skipped (only geo core needs a solution for boost, only need a way to get plasma/get up phazon core for sj), but lowering % is something else entirely, especially for space jump.

aside from that, i can't think of much else. after andrew's sheegoth test it doesn't sound like you could get the wave beam and avoid fighting them, which is too bad.
From: bluberry | Posted: 6/15/2003 11:56:37 AM
A thought for no SJ Phazon Core.

Can the Fission Metroids be frozen with the Ice Beam/Ice Spreader? If so, you could get them into places that are between the really long jumps, and use them as stepping stones, a la how you can skip the Dash Boots in CV:Circle of the Moon by freezing a Bat with the Ice Whip or whatever.
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From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/15/2003 12:25:43 PM
Unfortunately Hunter Metroids can't be frozen at all. Which is a pain.

I wonder if there's any spot in the impact crater that you can exploit some crazy physics glitching (e.g. Like ghetto jumping out of the water for the artifact without Gravity).

Remember, that new tricks were discovered for Super Metroid YEARS after it was thought to be fully exploited (e.g. The Mochball move).

I wonder if there's a way to glitch "through" the doors without the correct beam. You never know I suppose...

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: LLCoolDave | Posted: 6/15/2003 1:27:38 PM
Your a bit confused, aren't you? That should be Fission, not Hunter.

And isn't it spelled mockball?
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From: Yoritoki Komatsu | Posted: 6/15/2003 1:33:56 PM
so all we have to do is figure out how to get to phendrana with the power suit and we got it made

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From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/15/2003 1:35:17 PM
Hunter Metroids can be frozen, but Fission Metroids can't be...

Sodohobo's newest (Yoritoki suttin I think) posted about being able to get up the Phazon Core without sj using tbjm's, but I doubt it cuz hes full of BS...

Anyway, I just came up with a new, completely useless technique...the triple jump. It can only be used in two places...(1) Immediately after you get sj, go close to your ship. Jump once, and then you will get a ship-induced jump, then space jump, for a total of 3 jumps. (2) On a ceiling mounted door, open it, jump once, get the door-induced jump, and then space jump for a total of 3.

Good job to everyone who got 23% and the continuing sequence breaking. Especially to Andrew, thats some cool stuff you found...

Oh yeah, is it possible to do a regular single jump to the artifact of nature? I had to do a dash jump from a puffer to do it...
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From: bluberry | Posted: 6/15/2003 1:59:10 PM
Wait.... you could get the Fission Metroid to split into Metroids/Hunter Metroids, and then freeze them as platforms. Maybe? Possibly?

Probably not, but it's wortha shot.
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From: Green Mamba | Posted: 6/15/2003 2:11:26 PM
When you split a Fission Metroid, they just become different types of Fission Metroids, not regular/hunter Metroids.
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From: bluberry | Posted: 6/15/2003 2:37:43 PM
Um, uh. I knew that......

*tries to think of some other way to use the ICe Beam to get up Phazon Core*

Um, you throw your arm cannon, land on it while it's in mid air, jump to the next platform, rip off your helmet, use that, and then instead of your Arm Cannon, use brass knuckles to fight MP.

..yeah, I'm out of ideas.
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From: joakimbtt | Posted: 6/15/2003 2:42:59 PM
I'm not in to speedruns and low percentages but I would REALLY like to help you guys to try to discover some sequence breaking, just tell me what you guys can't do and i try to figure it out (I come up with a lot of great stuff in many games, sometimes cool glitches, sometimes really cool stuff) I have in fact discovered many sequence breaking in Metroid Prime just for fun, then saw your site and it was there to. I mean i never read your SJ early bombjump from the ship, i discovered that by myself before reading it) So i really think I can help you. So just tell me and I'll give it a try. And to ANDREW MILLS (I hope you read this), can't you try to find some secret areas like the one in Transport Tunnel C with your gameshark codes and make a vid of them? It would be cool to ses vids of that, you could jump up high places, try to jump up on the roof where you leave all the artifacts for example. Well, i hope i get a reply, bye!
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From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/15/2003 2:48:32 PM
@LLCoolDave: Your a bit confused, aren't you? That should be Fission, not Hunter.

And isn't it spelled mockball?

I'm tired... leave me alone... =p

You're right tho. Soz for being stupid... =/

Right, I also have a few more discoveries, one of which is actually pretty helpful:

1). I have found a way to almost guarantee a power bomb refill everytime you need one... If you shoot a Greemer or a Zoomer with the Ice Beam there's a 90% chance that they'll now leave you a PB Refill. It seems to work much more successfully with the Ice Beam than the other beams for some reason...

2). Here's a couple of videos showing you what happens when you get suit-upgrades out of order. In one movie there's the gravity suit after the Phazon Suit. Not much happens, except some really wierd lines appear all around samus... And in the 2nd movie, this is what happens when OP falls on you when you only have the Power Suit on...

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/gravity_after_phazon.mpg (2.1 Megs)

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/psuit_glitch.mpg (1.1 Megs)

I also made a movie of the MoonJump in action for those without AR's to see the benefits it has on messing around with the game good and proper... >=)

http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/mprime/moonjump_up_suntower.mpg (1.1 Megs)

I've probably forgotten a few other things that I noticed on my AR-equipped travels, but I'll stick them here again if I remember...

Andrew "The Original MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/15/2003 3:01:09 PM
Ah yes.. I remember what it was I forgot now...

When you get the Phazon suit in a no-varia/no-gravity game, you get the protection from heat that the Varia provides, but NOT the ability to move freely in water that the Gravity suit provides... Strange huh?

Oh, and using the MoonJump code, I have managed to stand at the bottom of the crater where the ridley fight takes place. It's completely solid down there.

Andrew "Tired and bored MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 6/15/2003 3:53:53 PM
That's some strange motions for Samus in your video where Samus gets the Phazon Suit before the Varia... Are they different in PAL, or is it caused by getting the Phazon Suit before the Varia Suit?

Because, in the NSTC (or whatever, forgot the order of the letters), once getting the Phazon Suit, Samus rears back, as if blasted by some powerful wave of energy, stands up, and then kneels and aims her cannon...
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From: bluberry | Posted: 6/15/2003 4:01:10 PM
"When you get the Phazon suit in a no-varia/no-gravity game, you get the protection from heat that the Varia provides, but NOT the ability to move freely in water that the Gravity suit provides... Strange huh?"

Maybe they expect you to have Varia by then, but possibly not the Gravity suit?
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From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/15/2003 4:28:20 PM
Nah its just the programming. Andrew is breaking up the game in such obscure ways, the game pretty much responds randomly. I seriously doubt Retro knew about any of these techniques, except perhaps the dbjm and the ghetto jump. Although those platforms for plasma b4 thardus are very suspiciously placed...

BTW what is the mock ball? Ive never heard of that.
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From: Green Mamba | Posted: 6/15/2003 4:49:34 PM
Mockball is a glitch from Super Metroid that allows you to roll as a ball as fast as you can run. It's quite helpful, mainly for getting the Super Missiles before Spore Spawn and the Ice Beam before the Speed Booster. Actually, I think those are its only uses....
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From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/15/2003 7:08:55 PM
Oh, I knew about that, just not by name. But I thought it could only be activated by speed boosting...?
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From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/15/2003 7:21:22 PM
Andrew, if you go through without the Varia and pick up the Gravity and/or Phazon suit, then go back and fight Flaahgra and get the Varia, what is the animation like? And do any other strange glitches occur? (This is assuming you didn't go through the back way with the moonjump to get the artifact of wild, thus losing the ability to fight Flahgraa)
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From: kip | Posted: 6/15/2003 7:38:25 PM
hey joakim, if you want to help out, here are problem rooms for no space jump:

geothermal core (spinner to spinner for plasma beam)
phazon core (getting to the missile station door after which all the jumps can supposedly be made)

the last problem to skip boost is also geo core; we need either a way to raise the second spinner without boost (the third can be already), or a way to reach the bomb slot at the top of the second spinner from the raised third spinner.

but to lower % with boost these also need a solution in addition to geo core:

life grove (make the spinner go all the way around without gravity suit, which is a skipped item already)
ventilation shaft (puffer/poison gas room in the mines, on your way back from central dynamo)

i can go more in depth about something if needed. also, if you have any ideas for getting the wave beam without fighting the sheegoths, try them out. or any ideas on how to get something important earlier than it can be gotten already, etc.
From: kip | Posted: 6/15/2003 7:55:38 PM
also here's some problems rooms to lower % with space jump:

* phendrana's edge without sj and grapple (to get spirit artifact)
* geo core without sj/spider/grapple (for plasma)
* fungal hall a without sj and grapple (to reach omega pirate)
* fungal hall b without sj and grapple (to reach omega pirate)
* metroid quarantine a without sj and spider (to reach omega pirate)
* metroid quarantine b without sj/spider/grapple (to reach omega pirate)
* phazon core without sj (to reach prime)
* artifact of world without sj and spider (to get world artifact)
* phazon processing center without sj and spider (to leave the mines after taking out omega pirate)
* great tree hall without sj and spider (to get x-ray)
* observatory without sj (or figure out how to get through the twin fires path in magmoor without sj and without losing 99 energy)
* ore processing without sj and spider (if the main quarry > waste disposal dash jump can be done with only 1 jump, this already has a solution in ntsc though)

maybe i missed a few rooms too.

that list sure looks scary i know, which is why i think it's not too important until sj has actually been skipped first. but if any of you guys are extremely bored or something, this list could always use shortening; it's something to do i guess. boredom had a lot to do with the initial discoveries after all. =]
From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/15/2003 9:03:25 PM
I just started trying to sequence break a few days ago, and I've already made progress. I was able to get the Space Jump Boots, Wave Beam, Wavebuster, and the Chozo Artifact in the room next to the room where you get the Wavebuster(I think it's the Artifact of Lifegiver, but I'm not sure) without the Boost Ball. I've got a couple questions, though: is it humanly possible to get to Phendrana through Magmoor without the Varia suit?(I tried several times, never even came close) Also, do you guys use a different method for getting the Wavebuster before the Spider Ball? Just curious, because this is the method I used.(note: this method requires the Space Jump Boots)

In the room where you get the Morph Ball, stand on the half-pipe and look to the left for a piece of branch that sticks out. Jump to that branch. From there, look to the middle of the room for another branch. Jump to there, and from there jump to the ledge on top of the half-pipe, jumping to the purple door from there. Then you can go and get the Wavebuster like normal.

Please tell me if this method is different from what you guys normally do.
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From: kip | Posted: 6/15/2003 9:33:36 PM
magmoor could be possible, but nobody has done it yet. i haven't tried much but if i ever did it i'll have a video as well as a clear explanation of how to do it.
From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/15/2003 11:07:39 PM
Yea, SH, that's the normal method for getting to the Sun Tower. Though, if you feel like it, you can jump inside a dip in the Spider ball track.
From: bluberry | Posted: 6/16/2003 8:22:26 AM
Ventilation shaft?

Wait, explain to me again why this is needed? Can't you leave some other way? And go from Main Quarry to the Phazon Pirate?

And, well, try to guess what I'm about to suggest.

Try freezing the Puffers (I think that's what they're called) and using them as a platform to the door. Quickly, cause on a no tank run you die fast. Prolly won't work, but what the hey.
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From: joakimbtt | Posted: 6/16/2003 8:27:37 AM
LOOK HERE KIP, KIP, KIP (just so you can see I'm tying to make contact with you) I really hope and think I can help you as I said before, but as I also said, I'm not into sequence breaking and speedruns so it's hard for me to understand what youre talking about. Of course i get the most of it and understand it but you could wirte a mail to: joakim_nintendo_glantz@hotmail.com and write IN DEPTH, not to much if you don't wan't to, but so I know exactly what you guys need help with. Or you could write here but it's easier with mail. Well, I hope you read this Kip and that you will send a mail. I am a close friend to a person who works on Club Nintendo in Sweden and he talks to Nintendo of japan alot. HE said that in Metroid Prime 2 there will actually be a multiplayer mode, with different charaters. I know a lot more about the game, example, Kraid is BACK!!! YEY! But I can't say more than that, sorry or I will never be able to talk to him again. we talk by phone sometimes. There's one more cool thing I can tell you, in Metroid Prime 2. If you saw the E3 video preview you see that Samus rolls against a wall in morphball mode then launhes like from a ramp, yes, I mean that RAMPS that you can shoot yourself of exists in the 2nd Prime game! SWELL! Think about the possibilities. Well, must go now, bye!
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From: kip | Posted: 6/16/2003 8:58:49 AM
ventilation shaft is a problem because after you get the power bomb in central dynamo, you need to go back through it (and up the half pipe) so you can leave the mines to get x-ray, which is required to beat omega pirate. op blocks the other way to phazon processing center, so you need to beat him to reach it (or go the other way to it, through ventilation shaft).

in a plain "no boost" game and not 22%, this doesn't matter since you could get x-ray before the power bomb, then head straight to omega pirate after you get the power bomb and never even visit ventilation shaft a second time. but you couldn't do this in 22% because you need to destroy a little bendezium to get x-ray, and getting a power bomb expansion to do that will make the % go up for nothing (you still need the central dynamo power bomb to trigger the phazon elite fight later).

hopefully that made sense. the puffer idea is a good one, i just can't remember if 1 ice shot kills them without freezing. if it does, i don't think it'd work. also, most of the enemies in this game don't allow you to jump off of them like in other metroids. but there are exceptions, like adult sheegoths.
From: bluberry | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:03:19 AM
I get what you're saying.

If it kills in one hit, you could miss with the Ice Spreader and let the splash damage freeze him maybe, although then you're adding another % just to get the Spreader, so that's stupid...
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From: kip | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:07:52 AM
ok, i'll try to simplify it a bit. see if you can find a solution for these rooms without using the boost ball, don't worry about the no space jump stuff:

geothermal core - can you find a way to completely raise the second spinner without boosting? the second spinner is the one with the bomb slot at the top, the one that lifts the ceiling and all that stuff.

life grove - can you find a way to make the stone handle thing on the spinner move all the way around without boost, and without the gravity suit? you need to do it to make the artifact appear.

ventilation shaft - start at the bottom of the room. can you find a way up the half pipe without boost?
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:08:31 AM
All types of beams destroy Puffers in one shot...
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From: kip | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:09:44 AM
plus you'd be adding another % to get another missile expansion, since ice spreader costs 10 missiles to use. =P
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:13:20 AM
"ventilation shaft is a problem because after you get the power bomb in central dynamo, you need to go back through it (and up the half pipe) so you can leave the mines to get x-ray,"

You sure about that? What about, instead, getting the PB expansion in Phendrana's Edge, then get the X-ray visor before going into the Phazon mines? That way, you won't have to backtrack all the way through the Phazon Mines to get the x-ray visor, and the necessity of having the boost ball for the Ventilation Shaft is gone, right?
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From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:14:08 AM
(Btw, yes, I know, that solution helps about jack squat to the 21% game)
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From: kip | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:20:32 AM
dude, that's basically what i said on the last page. =P

yeah, vent shaft is no problem if just trying to skip boost, because of exactly what we said. but in low % it would need a solution since you can only get 1 power bomb and you don't have a choice of which one it'll be, requiring a second visit to vent shaft where you start from the bottom of the room.
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/16/2003 9:22:06 AM
*blushes* missed that other post...
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From: bluberry | Posted: 6/16/2003 11:39:38 AM
I'm just throwing out random ideas here cause I can't try anything right now, but could you ghetto jump against the fan?
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From: joakimbtt | Posted: 6/16/2003 1:14:30 PM
Have anyone here tried to dash from a puffer then jump again up? I almost made it, try that (=
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From: joakimbtt | Posted: 6/16/2003 1:16:58 PM
I'm talking about the ventilation room
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From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/16/2003 5:11:38 PM
joa- That wouldn't work cuz dash jumps get no height...but I like bluberry's idea though...

In my new game, I went for a no-sequence break game, just to see what it felt like. It's REALLY hard not to just break down and do something, like early plasma. I was going through geo core, and it was like, I would save so much time by doing it, but I wanted to do no sequence breaking, oh well...

Anyway, I'll update before the last post, and again when the new topic is made.

Next game I think I'll follow tim's faq and get a decent 100% time. BTW, people who want to get in the rankings, do a hard mode game. Hardly anybody seriously tries for speed in a hard game anymore...
From: Nightmare Zero 2 | Posted: 6/16/2003 5:40:46 PM
I think my game is messes up, the SJ first trick doesnt work, im using the north american version, i L-lockon, dash/let go, it dashes sideways, straight sideways and i hit the damn wall.
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From: Varsis Erion | Posted: 6/16/2003 6:00:59 PM
Try moving to different positions relative to the front/back of the right side of the ship. You need to be standing on the grey turbine piece, but where on it is tricky. When you finally do it, you'll jump sideways moving almost perfectly horizontal, and just STICK to the ledge where you land. If you are bouncing off, then you need to line yourself up better.
From: Kyuenjin | Posted: 6/17/2003 2:26:30 AM
Can someone good with dash jumps try this? I think it might be a possible solution for Geothermal Core without Boost.

Kip, you never seemed to believe that the first spinner was a problem, therefore I'm assuming you know how to get to the third without raising the first. If my assumption is wrong, then we'll need to raise the first spinner somehow, or get to the third from the second.

Anyway, I think you can get to the bomb slot without raising the second spinner. Here's how it goes. Raise the third spinner, space jump up the track as usual. Now, go to the edge and have your right side facing the bomb slot. Aim down into the lava. Just a little bit up and left of the enemy spore in the lava there is a thing you can lock on to. Dash jump using that, space jump, and morph ball into the bomb slot. I'm not very good at dash jumping and such, and I managed to get about a balls length away from the slot.

Also, as Andrew said, I believe, if you activate that bomb slot and go a few rooms away, and all the spinners will be raised, so you can go about the rest of the way to get the plasma early.

Just something I've been messing with. Hope someone finds it useful.

Btw, Thanks for the praise a while back, Amasawa. To tell you the truth, the Sun Tower was about 25% thoughtfulness and about 75% luck, but this is already a long post, so I won't get into it. And I found the way out of Life Grove without Space jump, btw. :P
From: kip | Posted: 6/17/2003 4:44:19 AM
yeah, you can get to the third spinner from the (unraised) second one. just jump on the inner "ring" around the pillar part of the spinner, then run off the edge and space jump toward the third spinner. the jump has to be pretty good to make it, i have a vid of it too if it's needed.

that idea sounds good. the only thing is whenever you try to morph in midair, samus always immediately falls down like she weighs tons, instead of like in super metroid where it's easier to morph in midair to do something. by the time she's actually a ball, you've fallen way below the bomb slot. but it might work if done well enough.

i've also tried to find a way to get to those orange/yellow "sticks" above the bomb slot and see if it's possible to stand on one, then morph on it and fall into the bomb slot. but i can't find a way to reach the sticks.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/17/2003 4:50:38 AM
Well, I can guarantee you all that the spinners will all appear raised if you can get to the bomb slot at the top of the 3rd spinner, when the other spinners aren't activated. I have done this several times now thanks to the charms of MoonJumping ;)

So if you can dash-jump to the 3rd slot, maybe see if you can stand on the lip of the slot (possible knowing retro and the standing on obscure objects fiasco in MP), or just morph into it, at the end of the jump.

If I get a chance, I'll get in on this as well, with and without the MoonJump to see if other tricks can be developed (as we seen with the Great Tree Bars last week).

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: kip | Posted: 6/17/2003 4:50:51 AM
also, i got banks on the case so maybe he'll be nice enough to cook us up an infinite bomb jump to reach the bomb slot. =]
From: kip | Posted: 6/17/2003 4:53:41 AM
that would be sweet andrew. the more people looking at this the better i think. we could easily skip boost when geo is solved, but life grove is going to need a "without grav" solution to lower %; ventilation shaft will also need something.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/17/2003 4:56:03 AM
@Kip: Do you have all the available non-boost Geo Core videos online yet? I'd be very interested in seeing them.

Also, remember that you need to, at the least, open the 2nd door away from that room, once you activate the raising roof, and then return if you want the spinners to be auto-raised.

And, I'll see if those yellow sticks that spin upon activation of the bomb slot are solid or not, using the lovely trick that is MoonJumping (gotta love that thing for screwing around with the game =D ).

Andrew "The Original MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/17/2003 5:01:27 AM
I just remembered something else about bomb-slots. They have the ability to "suck in" samus in ball form when she's near it, maybe from as far as half a ball length away. Maybe that will prove useful if distance is a prob, OR, you can use this to your advatage if you can hit the bar above the slot, morph, drop down in ball form, and let the suction pull you into the slot...

There's some food for thought for you all...

Andrew "On a break at work, hence all these consecutive Posts" Mills
From: Takashi | Posted: 6/17/2003 11:53:02 AM
I don't want to break up the flow here, but could someone point me to what missile expansions can be gotten after Early SJ and before getting the launcher? (I couldn't really find what I was looking for in the 46 pages of this topic yet)
From: Zanapher | Posted: 6/17/2003 11:55:14 AM
The one in the main plaza (among others maybe) in the boost ball ramp.
(you have to do a ghetto jump, or maybe not I'm not sure if it's even necessary)

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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be...
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/17/2003 12:11:57 PM
You can also get a missile exp. from the ruined shrine.

Btw, would anyone mind if I made the next topic :-*
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Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/17/2003 4:14:27 PM
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/17/2003 12:11:57 PM | Message Detail
You can also get a missile exp. from the ruined shrine.

Btw, would anyone mind if I made the next topic :-*

The Ruined Shrine is behind a missile door, so I don't see how you could get that one before the Launcher. =P

And BTW, I still haven't made a topic yet... ;\
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"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: manofStele | Posted: 6/17/2003 5:33:48 PM
Either of the two in the main plaza. You can jump up to the one at the top of the boost ramp or you can jump over to the one in the corner near the grappling hook.
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With the blast shield down, I can't even see!
How am I supposed to fight?
From: scizor213 | Posted: 6/17/2003 8:39:14 PM
Have you found out what happens when you get gravity without viara and phazon yet?
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i NO i KANT SPEL http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4923289
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/17/2003 8:55:05 PM
scizor: Andrew posted a link to a video of that a few pages back, along with numerous other vids he made with his AR moonjump code and infinite energy.

ANDREW, to reiterate my question from a few pages back, have you tried picking up the Gravity and/or Phazon Suit(s) before the Varia, then going back and getting the Varia? What's the animation like?
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: scizor213 | Posted: 6/18/2003 8:57:39 AM
I saw the gravity after phaznon but not gravity without phazon and viara.
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i NO i KANT SPEL http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4923289
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/18/2003 9:26:15 AM
"The Ruined Shrine is behind a missile door, so I don't see how you could get that one before the Launcher. =P"

Early space jump: Get a missile expansion in the main plaza half pipe (need to ghetto jump), then go get morph ball, then the expansion I was just talking about. You can also get the missile expansion that traditionally needs the grappling beam before the morph ball as well.
---
Working on getting 100% in GT3, MGS2, FFX, SSB:M, and RL.
So many games, not enough time. :-D
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/18/2003 9:28:14 AM
to reiterate my question from a few pages back, have you tried picking up the Gravity and/or Phazon Suit(s) before the Varia, then going back and getting the Varia? What's the animation like?

Seen ur message b4, but I've been too busy to be able take a look. Should have it done by this weekend at the lastest. Best I can do.

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: tfd | Posted: 6/18/2003 11:38:11 AM
>...but could someone point me to what missile expansions can be gotten
>after Early SJ and before getting the launcher?

All of them in the game! You don't need the launcher for anything, as I recall.

>Get a missile expansion in the main plaza half pipe (need to ghetto jump)

In the NTSC version of the game, no ghetto jump is needed for that one. Just hold full forward on the control stick to walk up the half-pipe as far as you can. Then just double jump while holding full forward the entire time. Works for me.
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-- Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze1oue7/id9.html (my ray tracing hobby)
From: Etinogard | Posted: 6/18/2003 2:11:01 PM
Does anyone know what will happen to the second part of prime if i get to it with the power suit via action replay?
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"Is that Link? Wow he looks like a tramp!" Oplok
From: dartsarecool9 | Posted: 6/18/2003 2:27:56 PM
You can't hurt him. That's been proved without Action Replay via the Ridley early trick.
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I want everyone to know that I'm lost.
From: Andrew Mills | Posted: 6/18/2003 5:33:55 PM
dartsarecool9: You can't hurt him. That's been proved without Action Replay via the Ridley early trick.

Well that fair enough without the AR. But WITH the AR it IS possible to kill him, with the "have Phazon beam" code. You can use this code with just the power suit still with NO problems (as I have done this in the PAL version).

Andrew "MP Speed Monkey" Mills
From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/18/2003 6:08:03 PM
Something I'd like to know(since the discoveries site doesn't say anything); how do you get past the Crossway without the Boost Ball, and the Sun Tower without the Spider Ball? Thanks in advance.
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I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix
From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/18/2003 6:20:32 PM
"how do you get past the Crossway without the Boost Ball, and the Sun Tower without the Spider Ball? Thanks in advance."

In the Crossway room, you only need the Boost Ball if you're going to get the missile expansion in the room, and on a low % game, that is unnecessary. And the trick to get atop the sun tower without spider ball is to actually never drop down after defeating Flaahgra. you hug the wall of the room and drop down in morph ball mode and hit the occuluss monster and then hug the wall to slow your descent and bomb yourself back up to the ledge. It sounds complicated but it really isn't. You do this to refresh the room where you fought flaahgra so you can kill the ghosts and claim the artifact.
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~Official Sequence Breaking Site~
http://metroid.retrofaction.com
From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/18/2003 6:24:23 PM
In fact, here's a video of Kip doing the trick:
http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/sun_tower_wo_spider.avi
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~Official Sequence Breaking Site~
http://metroid.retrofaction.com
From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/18/2003 6:32:21 PM
Thanks for the tips on the Sun Tower, but you didn't answer exactly how to get across the half-pipe in the Crossway w/o the Boost Ball. I had to go through on my current file with the Boost Ball, but since I was doing a low-percent(or as low as I can push it), I ignored the expansion.(I would've needed the Super Missile to get the expansion anyway, and since I don't know how to get past the Ruined Courtyard w/o the Boost ball, I'd have to ignore it for now anyway)
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I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix
From: Banks17 | Posted: 6/18/2003 6:38:49 PM
Crossway only requires a space jump
http://www.ens-lyon.fr/~vpoupet/metroid_prime/crossway_without_boost.avi
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~Official Sequence Breaking Site~
http://metroid.retrofaction.com
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 6/18/2003 6:39:37 PM
From: Cypher19 | Posted: 6/18/2003 9:26:15 AM | Message Detail
"The Ruined Shrine is behind a missile door, so I don't see how you could get that one before the Launcher. =P"

Early space jump: Get a missile expansion in the main plaza half pipe (need to ghetto jump), then go get morph ball, then the expansion I was just talking about. You can also get the missile expansion that traditionally needs the grappling beam before the morph ball as well.

Sorry, I meant that you can't get the Ruined Shrine expansion as your first Missile expansion.

Skedarhunter: There's two methods to it. You can use the original method of LLSJing from the ledge, or you can use the alternate (and probably easier) method of locking your view forward or up (yes, you have to lock your view, I had to anyway), hugging the wall on the west side of the halfpipe, and doing an SJ to get above the halfpipe. Whichever one works for you, they both require Space Jump. Take your pick.
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"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 6/18/2003 7:51:36 PM
K, thanks for the Crosswalk video. I was trying to double jump to the opposite end of the half-pipe, by the Chozo Lore entries. =/
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I'm the Alpha of your Omega...the beginning of your end. - Agent Smith, Enter the Matrix
From: Videogaming | Posted: 6/19/2003 11:51:51 AM
Metroid Prime High Scores

Normal any%
1. kip 1:35 (34%)
2. CAL Foolio 1:39 (43%)
3. Radix37 1:52 (45%)
4. Andrew Mills 1:57 (40%) <<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard any%
1. Gold Leader 1:58 (31%)
2. Radix37 2:04 (46%)
3. CAL Foolio 2:49 (100%)
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Normal Low%
1. Radix37 2:37 (23%)
2. TreborSelbon 2:58 (23%)
3. gamecubeman27 4:34 (23%)
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard Low%
1. kip 4:00 (24%)
2. Gold Leader 4:01 (26%)
3.
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Normal 100%
1. CAL Foolio 2:19
2. Lazy Veysey 3:02
3. Urazz Izmine 3:17
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Hard 100%
1. CAL Foolio 2:49
2. Varsis Erion 3:50
3. Gold Leader 4:05
4.<<<PAL>>>
5.<<<PAL>>>

Best Frigate Escape Times (Time remaining)
1. kip 4:22.05
2. CAL Foolio 4:20.65
3. zell99 4:15.39

A bump with an update! BTW, how do you get the grapple expansion in the main plaza w/o grapple?
From: kip | Posted: 6/19/2003 12:02:49 PM
just space jump to where it is from the ledge that hangs above the door going to ruined shrine. l-lock space jumps tend to make it pretty easily in my experience.
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/19/2003 4:41:14 PM
Damn, is it possible to get through Research Lab Aether from the back? I can't find any way through that window...
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: kip | Posted: 6/19/2003 4:46:50 PM
either the glass breaks or it doesn't. try going a few rooms away then coming back if it doesn't break; also try letting the pirates live for a bit after they notice you, especially that one that starts on the catwalk right above the elevator. i'm not 100% sure if he's the one that breaks the glass, but i usually didn't have problems with that when i let him live for a while.

if you got the thermal visor before the glass breaks and before getting super missile/lowering the platform it's on, then i think you triggered the thermal glitch and it'll never break. please don't save the game or you might have to start over.
From: Gray Fox 9996 | Posted: 6/19/2003 7:47:13 PM
D'oh, wish the MPD would've put that up...it's listed, but there's nothing there...and now I can't get my super missiles either...or my artifact...damnit, that sux. Just when I had my no spider ball game down...

Thanx for at least letting me know kip. That's a good 4 hours wasted after finally getting down all these techniques *sigh*.
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"I am like you...I have no name." Gray Fox
If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then absolute knowledge corrupts absolutely.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/19/2003 8:56:53 PM
Hi.

Havent seen this posted, but have an observation regarding the great tree hall trick.

Going by common sense is posible to by-pass the bars from the side coming from the frigate using the same method. So no boost for that switch also.

Right?
From: kip | Posted: 6/19/2003 9:05:40 PM
yeah, i see no reason why you couldn't go back over the bars from the frigate's side, but didn't actually do that myself... maybe i'll look into confirming it some time.

but regardless of whether you can or can't, it wouldn't be a problem in no boost.

gray fox, really sorry to hear that. =[

i think i will put a note about the thermal glitch on the front page of mpd.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 6/19/2003 9:13:09 PM
Hi.

Thanks for answering.

Probably there wont be any problem doing it since, as far as memory recalls, there isnt any mayor level difference between both sides of the bars.

Yea, wont solve anything but always nice to have another choice. So when you have the time check it out.

By the way, another one of this full. Incredible.
Thank you.
From: kip | Posted: 6/19/2003 9:28:33 PM
heh yeah, i wouldn't have thought this stuff would have lasted so long... even though to us it's just been 6-7 months or whatever. but will it be around in a few years? nonlinearty discussion still thrives on the sm board and it's 9 years old.

this game seems like it's close to drying up in terms of discoveries, but then again it seemed that way a lot of times before.
From: killerstudd | Posted: 6/19/2003 9:44:04 PM
wow

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4 / / Itchy. Tasty.
From: killerstudd | Posted: 6/19/2003 9:44:44 PM
wow
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4 / / Itchy. Tasty.