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Ice Beam + Gravity Suit before Thardus using Triple Jump
Archived byVigama
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:30:31 PM |
| Because most people are ignoring the "wave beam before space jump topic", i'll move this discovery into a new post. With a little encouragement from kip, and a little ingenuity on my part, we've discovered a way to get the ice beam and gravity suit before ever fighting thardus. I'll dub this the *official triple jump* because you can obviously get more height from it than a standard double jump. And it indeed uses 3 jumps to reach it's peak height. After you've gotten the wave beam, back track to the Chozo Ruins and make your way to the Furnace. You see the spider ball track there? Well, using the Triple Jump, you can enter the hole without using the track! Here's how you do it. It involves using a total of 6 bombs to perform, and you will be manipulating the refill counter a bit to execute it. 1st: you will lay bomb #1 and let it blast you into the air. 2nd: As SOON as you land, lay bomb #2. 3rd: RIGHT BEFORE bomb #2 blows up, you will place bomb #3 (a'la Double Bomb Jump method)The placing of bomb #3 MUST be done before your bomb meter refills, or you will not have enough bombs to complete the Triple Bomb Jump. 4th: As soon as bomb #2 explodes, place bomb #4 at the peak of your jump. 5th: When Bomb #3 shoots you into the air, you want to place Bomb #5 RIGHT BEFORE you reach bomb #4 (roughly 75-80% the distance from the ground to bomb #4's position) 6th: When Bomb #4 blasts you into the air, you want to place Bomb #6 at the peak, if not 80%+ of your jump. If timed perfectly (and i mean perfectly) you will fall down after placing bomb #6, be propelled back up by bomb #5, and then hit bomb #6's blast. Hold forward and you should have just enough height to catch the lip of the hole and pull yourself in! Congratulations! you're now able to continue on and collect the ice beam far before you were intended to. Proceed to go back to the drifts and go to the bottom of the research facility areas (where you would get the thermal goggles) and open that door. Continue on and get yourself the gravity suit! You can now go as far as you can get without needing the spider ball. Demonstration of the Triple Jump: O. <-- 1st Bomb O #_ <-- 1st bomb explodes to start the refill counter O.. <-- 2nd and 3rd bomb set accordingly O. <-- 4th bomb set #. <-- 2nd bomb explodes, yet 3rd bomb remains *Note* Next section is not on the same scale as the previous section. O. <-- 6th bomb set at 90%-peak of jump # <-- 4th bomb explodes . <-- 5th bomb placed at 75-80% (just before 4th bomb) #_ <-- 3rd bomb explodes O <-- Samus at Triple Jump Height (2.80 off the ground) # <-- 6th bomb explodes # <-- 5th bomb explodes _ |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:36:29 PM |
| now if i could just get the timing down to get up that platform in phendrana shorelines i'd try to beat the game without space jump, even given the fact that it's easily one of the best items and there's no reason why you'd want to skip it aside from the remote possibility of 27%. |
| From: Enter The Dragon | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:36:59 PM |
| I like this trick! Any other uses for the triple jump? *Gives Banks17 a cookie.* --- If all we had were signatures, this wouldn't BE a message board! |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:40:44 PM |
| Kip- about the chozo ghosts before you the ruins boss. You can't because there's a wave beam door blocking the hall of elders, and instead of chozo ghosts in the furnace room, there are those digger guys. Oh, and i wonder if there the graphic for ball form will be bugged with the gravity suit, seeing as how we don't even have the spider ball yet! |
| From: Slortex | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:43:04 PM |
| Awesome. That's really all I have to say. Can't wait to give this sucker a whirl. Well, I can wait, because I'm waiting now, and I'll likely do a good deal of waiting before I stop waiting. But I digress. |
| From: superduperpantsman | Posted: 1/18/2003 5:06:17 PM |
| What the heck is the triple jump? I thought there was only a space jump... |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 5:50:37 PM |
| I just started a new game, as soon as i got the morph ball bombs, i was able to complete the trick. ^_^ Just remember, place the 5th bomb JUST BELOW the 4th bomb, and place the 6th bomb WHILE ON YOUR WAY UP, NOT ON THE DESCENT Time to mess around on the other side of the track now =D |
| From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/18/2003 6:02:18 PM |
| Very cool. --- "Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!" -intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 6:08:01 PM |
| You can't get very far without the wavebeam. you can enter the room which contains the furnace and roll down the pipe, but after that, the next room is blocked off with a wave beam door. Now that i've had some fun, time to go get the wave beam and then come back =p |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 6:10:41 PM |
| Oh and kip, which door were you trying to get to in the drifts? i could see if i could hop that as well |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:16:06 PM |
| "which door were you trying to get to in the drifts?" it's what that other thread was originally about: using a tbj to get up to the chozo ice temple without space jump, therefore getting the wave beam before it. maybe you could get space jump before flaahgra by doing a tbj too. hmm, i almost got up that spider ball track, i was on it but i didn't go high enough to go into the tunnel, so i fell off the top. the timing of the last 2 bombs is very tricky (not to execute the jump; to get high enough). i'm playing a new game so if i can get up, i'll see what happens when you go through to thardus the back way, etc. |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:18:32 PM |
| sweeeet... way to go Banks. =) I'm gonna go try this again and see if I can do any better with it now. --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:20:24 PM |
| Hehe, yeah it's all on the placement of bombs 5 and 6. Sometimes i would get high enough that the camera would zoom in as if i were entering the tunnel, but i somehow would just fall back off. On my new game, i just got the boostball, so i could try and do the tbj into the icetemple, but seems to be a difficult maneuver |
| From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:21:42 PM |
| Sounds like a cool idea, but I haven't tried it yet. Only time I've tried to jumble the storyline up was when I fought Thardus without the Thermal Visor(he was easy, too). --- Guy on Jason X: Guys, it's ok, he just wanted his machete back! Me: Yeah, so he can hack you to pieces with it.<PDE Member> |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:23:12 PM |
| But if you even Were able to skip the spacejump there to get the wavebeam, wouldn't space jump be necessary later in the game for some of the rooms? I mean, imagine jumping over Omega's / Prime's 2nd form's wave with no space jump. Not sure if that's possible in a 27% game |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:32:11 PM |
| that's what i'm curious about. there are a lot of places where you can use a tbj to get up instead of space jump, and a lot of places where you can make it with a normal jump, but since you already have the space jump, you're inclined to use it all the time just to be sure you'll make those jumps, you know? jumping over OP and prime would be harder, but hardly impossible. as far as i'm concerned that's not the problem, it's a part where you absolutely can't go any further without space jump. all the "battle" portions can be overcome by trying harder/getting luckier. anyway, a couple "impossible" places i'm thinking is that one room in the crashed frigate with all the far out suspended ledges you have to jump to. and then there's the observatory in the phendrana pirate base. there's one part where you can't go further unless you space jump (and even then you barely make it to the next ledge). i haven't tried using a tbj, but i doubt it would work... |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:35:32 PM |
| but banks, i hear you... if 27% was possible, i'd rather something like the grapple beam was left out, instead of space jump. space jump = godly item. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:38:29 PM |
| Yeah, tbj is hard enough to perform as it is. I've made it into the tunnel about 4 times now, and that's with No enemies, no moving targets, and no gaps to cross. And even then, i'm successful maybe ONCE in 50 attempts. But, i sure would like to know how far you can get without space jump using tbj =D |
| From: EthyleneOxide | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:41:59 PM |
| nice stuff, but does the ice beam work well against Thardus? --- AKA: Feuerstrom |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:48:13 PM |
| cool, I actually made it up into the tunnel in the furnace using this trick a few minutes ago. I can't seem to get the timing right again, but it's nice to at least see it once. I was so pleased with myself that I promptly rolled onto the breakway floor and sat there with my thumb up my ass instead of taking advantage of my success with the tbj and passing the breakaway floors quickly to get the energy tank first. =) thanks for the help, kip & Banks. I'm having fun messing around with this, and will let you know if I have any success getting any other items early. --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:53:47 PM |
| yeah, it's all about the last 2 bombs. it has to be so perfect. =P |
| From: Wraith 1 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:55:23 PM |
| Nice work. Not only is the concept great, the explination was both coherent and easy to understand. --- Thank God for my vote and our President, he's someone people can actually look at with a straight face and respect. |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:57:03 PM |
| I just managed it again, so I guess maybe even bomb-jumping challenged peeps like me can have some success with this. (I sucked at the infinite bomb jumping in Metroid) btw I had my brain in gear enough to remember to get past the breakaway floors this time, but not enough to remember that the e-tank I was thinking of is on the bottom, not the top. X-D (Sometimes my own dumbassness amazes even me, which is saying a lot if you follow the logic. <=) ) --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:04:40 PM |
| Ugh, i've been trying to do this inside the room where you get space jump boots (getting out using tbj instead of space jump) I think it may be impossible to use tbj to land on a sloped surface, because i'm getting good height, but just not enough to avoid the slope on the edge of the rock. I know this is pointless but, it'll prove that some space-jumpable obstacles can be surpassed with tbj. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:06:30 PM |
| NM, i just got out ^_^ |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:08:25 PM |
| i've gotten out of that room with a double bomb jump before. metroid always makes you use an ability you got right away to get out of the place, but the entrance didn't look so high up that you had to use a space jump to get there, so i tried a double bomb jump. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:09:31 PM |
| Lol, i was probably doing it from the wrong side of the rock then =p |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:22:06 PM |
| Just got the wave beam, going to go test out the ice beam shortly ^_^ |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:36:14 PM |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:36:54 PM |
| Actually, i'm sure of it, just did it =p |
| From: Cyan of Doma | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:44:46 PM |
| Yep it works. I tried it once before, but gave up to early. Kool doods very kool. --- Currently playing: Final Fantasy Legend 2, Final Fantasy VI, Blades of steel, Ninja Gaiden 2, Quake 2(PC), Mechwarrior, Zelda:OoS&OoA |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:01:38 PM |
| now i got it. =] i got it once, then i fell down thanks to those stupid blocks in the next room, then i got it again about 15 tries later and made it to hall of the elders. gonna mess around with thardus soon. i remember talking to amasawa about this once, if it was possible, but i wouldn't have thought it actually was. but it is thanks to that great tbj method; i really doubt it can be done with the others, the bombs just aren't spread out enough to give you enough height. |
| From: Cyan of Doma | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:09:51 PM |
| I suggest someone to submit it to the codes and secrets setcion of gamefaqs. It needs to be there. --- Currently playing: Final Fantasy Legend 2, Final Fantasy VI, Blades of steel, Ninja Gaiden 2, Quake 2(PC), Mechwarrior, Zelda:OoS&OoA |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:12:15 PM |
| lmao, that spider ball track in hall of the elders tried to stop me, but i just space jumped on the tip of that round ornament thing near it and landed on it, then space jumped to the platform at the end of the track. i'll give it a 10 for effort though. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:17:22 PM |
| alright i got the ice beam, going to thardus. nothing stops you from getting it, so you can say it's been confirmed. for a split second i was worried about that spider ball track in hall of the elders, but i found a way around it that i mentioned in the other post. |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:36:28 PM |
| nice work kip! so another way to "break" the game is official... and I just managed to make my way into the temple in Phendrana without the space jump, too, albeit using a slightly different route than the floating platform (was able to tbj up near the left corner of the ground that the temple sits on to reach it) I'd rather do what you're doing now though; it sounds like more fun. :-) I'll keep at trying to climb the temple for a little while longer without the space jump though as a nod to devilbit's suggestion and then follow your lead when I get frustrated. Take some pics if you can get 'em. :-) --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:54:13 PM |
| argh, i think i encountered that glitch videogaming was talking about. none of the pirates broke the glass in the first metroid room. so i had to settle for going in the front way. i'll try it again in a bit; i didn't save after getting the ice beam of course. the ice beam bounces off thardus but it kills those rocks in 1 uncharged shot, as opposed to 2 wave beam shots. how cute. =P what's odd is that the overworld music changed when i exited chozo ruins (via the elevator near hall of the elders). i know for sure that it changes after beating thardus, so it's strange that it changed even though he was alive. |
| From: DoubleT | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:00:18 PM |
| gah! it's impossible! i can't get the bombs high enough to catch onto the "lip"... just a lliiiitttlleee bit more! argh.... *gets discouraged* --- "I think my wang talks more than I do. In fact, this comment itself is probably wang-inspired." ~ Dragoon of Infinity in the LUE board |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:15:43 PM |
| make sure you're pushing against the track when you're about to finish the jump (i just do it the whole time though). it may be necessary to get in; regardless, it definitely doesn't hurt. one time i got up but started to fall off, so i pushed against the wall and tried to fit myself into the hole and i made it. |
| From: DoubleT | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:41:02 PM |
| i've been pushin... oh well, i;ll come back tomorrow and try maybe... g'night, and ya did a good job banks, i congratulate u on this great(but tedious) finding --- "I think my wang talks more than I do. In fact, this comment itself is probably wang-inspired." ~ Dragoon of Infinity in the LUE board |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:45:39 PM |
| banks, how's it going for you? i hope that glitch didn't happen to you too; just to be safe, it would probably be a good idea to never use the ice beam in phendrana until you get to the ice beam door in the thermal visor room. i used it a lot, so... i'm going to do it again and never use it, hopefully the glitch won't happen again or else i don't know how we'll get the gravity suit and go in the back way to thardus. using the ice beam before the pirate breaks the glass might make the game go screwy or something. |
| From: Parapsyche | Posted: 1/18/2003 11:25:07 PM |
| Hmmm...you know what would be extremely difficult without the space jump? The large room in the Impact Crater that has the Fission Metroids. The annoyance of the metroids, along with using the triple bomb jump PERFECTLY, would be absolutely insane. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 11:29:41 PM |
| hmm... yeah that one would be pretty crazy. and people think going through it normally is bad. =P |
| From: Shifen | Posted: 1/18/2003 11:39:35 PM |
| Arg, I can't do it! The 5th bomb placement! I don't know how but I fall down too fast for it to catch me! Arg, I can't figure out where to put the 5th bomb! --- I cannot stress this fact enough! My name is SPELT: Shifen It's PRONOUCED with a LONG I Like Shy. I hoped you learned something. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:46:38 AM |
| um okay... not sure what the hell just happened. i was in research lab hydra or whatever that room is, i saw the cutscene, nothing was happening, i was getting worried then the metroid busted out of the tube and i killed it. then a pirate did a jump kick through the glass and i progressed. so anyway, i've got thermal visor and ice beam and i'm in frozen pike. i'm gonna go get the gravity suit then enter thardus' room through the back way. looks like the situation i encountered earlier was nothing to worry about. an odd note about tallon overworld music: this time when i got the ice beam, i went back to main plaza and took the exit there instead of the one by the ice beam. when i got back to the overworld the first theme played, instead of the second like last time, when i exited near the ice beam. (shrug) |
| From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:57:08 AM |
| WOW~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~ Nice guys. I can't wait to try this out. Wish me luck tomorrow... If we can pull off a 27%/26% game...ooh boy... Anyway, can this discovery possibly save any time on speed runs? Lastly, how many ways to "break" the game have we found? -no thermal -this topic tbj -my glitch- see my topic -Anything else? --- READ DARKELEMENT'S SIGNATURE!!! |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:59:28 AM |
| Hmm, if I could nail this one down enough, I might be able to go back and edit the speed guide that I have up now (that merely eliminates some backtracking. If a trick like this could cut off some major time, that'd be perfect.) One question: What's the bit about the Gravity Suit? Or did I miss it on an earlier page? |
| From: EthyleneOxide | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:15:24 AM |
| Wait do you think the game could be beaten w/o space jump then? --- AKA: Feuerstrom |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:29:34 AM |
| Most likely not - you need it to get through parts of Phazon Mines I think, and the Impact Crater would be hellish without it. Imagine trying to Bomb Jump from platform to platform while being seiged by Fission Metroids. EDIT - never mind, I found the Gravity Suit part...I'm up to laying 5 bombs successively...need to work on the 6th one's timing.... |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:35:36 AM |
| well that was interesting. a few random things i noticed: 1. your graphic in morph ball form is that of the varia suit. this corrects itself once you pick up the spider ball, but until then it's pretty funny that you go from gravity suit look to varia suit when going in and out of morph ball form. 2. when you go into thardus' room the back way, the game must not have expected you to since the fight doesn't happen until you go near the real entrance. this lets you do such exciting things as walking into thardus' lifeless body and taking damage, and scanning him before the battle (if that wasn't already possible). but anyway yeah, i just beat him by going the back way with ice beam + gravity suit. this is official now, there's no monkey wrench to worry about. i hope to make a video of getting up that track with a tbj if i ever get my stuff. all you folks who consider this guy the toughest boss on hard, maybe you should get the gravity suit to lessen the damage you take, and the energy tank in hall of the elders before fighting him. =] |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:41:26 AM |
| hmm not to mention you could get both crashed frigate energy tanks before fighting thardus then... you could have like what, 8 or 9 tanks and the gravity suit before fighting him? |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:51:37 AM |
| "Lastly, how many ways to "break" the game have we found? -no thermal -this topic tbj -my glitch- see my topic -Anything else?" that seems to be it... wave beam before space jump isn't official yet, since amasawa found a weird and seemingly problematic thing about it. space jump before flaahgra (using tbj at the landing site) is another thing i've been curious about, but i guess it wouldn't be as funny as ice beam + gravity suit before thardus is. i'm also gonna start a new game on normal and try to get through magmoor without the varia suit, highly doubt it can be done though. but the fact that the ice beam simply bounces off thardus got me curious. i wanna try using the wave/ice/plasma beam against flaahgra. perhaps "kill flaahgra last" is possible in a way. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:53:50 AM |
| Hmm, Kip...if I were to perfect this move, would you perhaps mind if it was added as a time-saving trick to the Speed Guide currently up? (It's in the process of a major update anyhow). I got the sixth bomb jump down, but I want to practice it until I can see if it can be done repeatedly, making it a viable trick that can be executed with regularity. If that's cool with you, who else worked it out with you again? |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:58:16 AM |
| Can you go into Magmoor without the Varia suit and not take damage? I know you can get there via the Sun Tower elevator (near the Vault and Hive Totem), but I just assumed it would involve rapid energy depletion. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:01:08 AM |
| Well, i couldn't post any further when i was actually able to get to the hall of elders due to posting limits (damn new user access) Just before i left, i thought the same thing as kip. That extra spider ball track scared the crap out of me, thinking this was a whole waste of time. But then i did the same thing; I jumped onto that nub and on to the platform to activate the node, then proceeded to get the ice beam ^_^ I had to save and leave though, went out tonight with some friends. Tonight i'd like to see how far i can actually go without using the spider ball. Any problems you can see in the future? (thinking about the technical bomb jumps needed to try to get to the power bombs and plasma beam >_<) Need to catch up to kip and get the gravity suit now =p |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:12:27 AM |
| of course i wouldn't mind. =P as for other people, banks is the one who developed a tbj method that actually works (not just doing what i used to do and jamming on the A button to get 3 bombs barely above each other once the stock refills). so without that, i bet you couldn't get up there. he also IIRC took the initiative and tested it out on that spider ball track. a lot of other people could also be thanked like amasawa, zell, cubefreak, etc etc, too many people, pretty much anyone who just took part in any of the discussions all i did was bring it up and test a bit to look for possible road blocks. i noticed that track isn't that high off the ground compared to others, so when i first heard that triple bomb jumping was possible, i thought maybe you could get up there somehow, and take the back way to thardus, skipping the super missile and charge beam (but when i played the game again i found out you need super missiles to get back to the sunchamber, where there's that one artifact). |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:17:33 AM |
| I'll be sure to add that info then. As it is, the route I used lays the final time down around 4:20-4:27, but I figure if enough goodies like this are found, it can be sharply brought down. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:20:30 AM |
| "Tonight i'd like to see how far i can actually go without using the spider ball. Any problems you can see in the future?" in phazon mines once you drop down those two rooms with LONG spider ball tracks, you aren't going back up unless you have it or you exit to magmoor. there's also the ore processing room to worry about... maybe there's some way to get past it though, i don't know. but even if you did, once you got power bomb you'd need to get out somehow. there's that exit to magmoor in phazon processing center, but i don't know if you can get to the top of the room without the spider ball. it could be possible though. also, there's the "olympics" track before the plasma beam. i've tried to get to the door by space jumping to it from the start of the track, i can get really close but i can't quite do it. if you can get the plasma beam without the spider ball, and make your way to level 3 of the mines, i bet the spider ball wouldn't be needed then. there's one track right before omega pirate, but i doubt you have to use it, i bet you could just go into the pit of phazon and tbj up onto the other side. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:28:41 AM |
| I'll try to overcome each obstacle as i come across it i guess, i'm going to go the normal route through the research area, get the thermal goggles, then keep on going to the gravity suit. Should be smooth sailing through the crashed frigate. I don't expect any problems until i get to that phazon mining room that has the spider ball track puzzle. (hopefully you can tbj up the platforms without messing with the track at all =p |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:29:30 AM |
| Tomorrow when I have some free time, I'll try and isolate some more items and see if there aren't more ways to break the linear drive of the game like with this Ice Beam trick. I actually just got the Ice Beam using it, so now I'm headed on my way to Thardus (happened to have a save file right before him, actually...) |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:37:13 AM |
| i think jumping on that thing in hall of the elders might not be necessary to get to the ice beam room, but it's definitely easier than this other way, which is theory right now but involves a tbj to get to where the statue puts you when you take the wave beam path. near the ceiling where the safety window is, there's a long slit that goes across the whole side. there's these stick things covering most of it, but at one part there's nothing. when you take the wave beam path up there, i tried rolling out of the blank part, and you end up falling out, so i guess if you can roll out, you can tbj into there. so if it wasn't for that wave beam door before hall of the elders, maybe it would've been possible to have the ice beam before wave beam (and before flaahgra). |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:52:49 AM |
| About the Pirate not breaking the glass hold up. I think you HAVE to go in the front way, because the dramatic *omg there's a metroid* cut scene must play out, and i think you're supposed to scan it before it breaks out, and then kill it for the pirate to jump through. Not sure 100%, but that's just how i did it. |
| From: x6xboxer6x | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:54:32 AM |
| damn it, I've been going at it for about 15 minutes and I just cant get that 5 bomb. I managed to get up once, but then i was so excited I forgot that those platforms disappear. ARGGG! --- Money can't buy love; but it can rent a very close imitation. AC Town:Boston AC Name:Veloth |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:13:33 AM |
| Well, i dropped into the spider ball track puzzle room and got stuck =p There is no way to continue beyond this point. The only thing i can think of, is that other entrance into that room ( not the grapple beam door, and not the door out, but that 3rd door) Does anyone know how to get through the other side of that and into this room? If you can't get any farther than this, i'd recommend just getting the gravity suit, the energy tanks from the frigate, and then taking on thardus. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:16:11 AM |
| so... anyone try space jump before flaahgra? i'm not having much success with it. running through magmoor without the varia didn't go well either. there's 5 rooms straight you have to go through that aren't cool, and the energy drains way too fast (this is on normal too). i can almost get to the 3rd room which is shore tunnel, but all the paths in fiery shores that don't involve jumping in the lava and taking even more damage take too long. i tried to get that energy tank in the main plaza with a tbj but i can't get high enough, and that crumbled pillar always makes you fall off if you do it from there. with only 2 energy tanks it doesn't look good, even with 4 you could barely make it if it was possible. if shore tunnel was a cool room it would probably be possible, since you could just get to it, open the door to the next room or fiery shores and shoot the boxes for health, pull it in, leave room, repeat till full. |
| From: arisen devil | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:44:58 AM |
| could u post this under codes and secrets?? --- i am a knight who says ni;ni ni ni ni |
| From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 9:50:40 AM |
| Hmm...Gonna try this in a bit, but it may be a while b4 I make progress, my siblings play this game too <_> Banks- The glass breaking always works if you try to get the thermal when you're supposed to. It doesn't if you get it thru the Ice Beam Door (bottom of the Research Core). tlj- Read the Metroid Prime High Scores topic, you might find some speed savers. Waiting to get the thermal til later really helps. People have gotten 2:48 on normal with %s in the 40s. --- READ DARKELEMENT'S SIGNATURE!!! |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:19:33 AM |
| Way to go, guys. With the triple bomb jump technique down solid and getting the ice beam before the spider ball, I realized that you found just the trick that's needed to drop this to a 26% game, I think. There's no longer any need for the super missile, since you can reach Thardus the back way by going through the ice beam door at the end of the research lab. Therefore, the charge beam is no longer a mandatory requirement, either. I don't think I'm overlooking any need for either of these items, so I'm going to confirm this by trying a 26% game on Normal. I don't even wanna think about trying it in Hard mode; fighting Omega with no charge beam is going to be hard enough as it is. Keep up the good work and, before you know it, the morph ball will no longer be a required pickup. ;) --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: TheEvilCubivore | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:28:29 AM |
| No super missile... hmmmm I think in the crashed pirate frigate... --- Speed>Power |
| From: Andromon59 | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:52:45 AM |
| Whoa, really cool guys, good job. --- RPGer? Go here: http://quiz.raven black.net/blood.pl?biter=Andromon58 and kevan.org/brain.cgi?andromon58 |
| From: Arathorn21st | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:00:53 PM |
| Off-topic, but for 28%, do you skip X-Ray Visor or Thermal Visor? BTW, excellent work here. Although making a 26% game is letting a criminal loose from prison; I can't imagine MP on hard w/ just normal shots...ugh. --- Pokemon Stuff in Quote---AC: Name Ulysses, Town Athens <Member of Peach's Castle Turnip Tossers> |
| From: Arek The Absolute | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:18:17 PM |
| I actually believe going through Magmoor with no Varia is possible. But it involves backtracking instead of going in through Chozo Ruins go through Tallon Overworld therefore you have 4 rooms to make it through. (or is it 5) Anyhow I'm believeing with all the enrgytanks up to the point and if you're a master of DBJ you can refill your energy by getting the energy Tank in Magmoor Transport Tunnel A. Fighting Flaahgra Last i'm not sure if that's possible. But it would be fun to try. I'm gonna attempt going through Magmoor to Phendrana without Varia in my next play through. |
| From: Diffusion | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:30:10 PM |
| Skipping Thermal Visor. For some odd reason, shots on the Omega Pirate don't seem to register w/o the X-Ray Visor. --- She dates losers. I mean, what kind of guy gets it for "attempted" rape? - doomsdays |
| From: Mr Easy | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:25:59 PM |
| (hopefully you can tbj up the platforms without messing with the track at all) In the puzzle room... if you can stack your tbj to get up there... that would enable you to get the grapple without getting the powerbomb. But.. yeah. --- I am Gelatin Snake. Triforce of Laziness Good, Bad, I'm the Guy with the gun. |
| From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:57:06 PM |
| Nope. Super Missile is required to activate the ruins in the Chozo room just b4 the sunchamber. That would make the Charge Beam and Spider Ball mandatory too <_> I only gave it five minutes or so, but I CANNOT get the fifth bomb to propel me up, no matter how early I lay it. It always explodes just a bit too late...Any tips? --- READ DARKELEMENT'S SIGNATURE!!! |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:39:00 PM |
| yeah, you'd have to use level 4398763948769834768 bomb jumping to get up to the sunchamber without using that spider ball track. that's the only other place where super missiles are needed. lava lake + control tower artifact can be gotten with regular missiles. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:48:13 PM |
| the tallon overworld entrance to magmoor is the one you have to use since the other one is through flaahgra, who would give you the varia suit. it's 5 hot rooms straight, the one with the energy tank is last but you'd be better off skipping it and saving at phendrana, then going back in to grab it and leaving for phendrana again. if it was possible to get to phendrana once, you could go to and from phendrana easily since you'd only be getting more energy tanks from that point. you could get the wave/ice beam before flaahgra, but i don't know about plasma beam since it requires a pretty extended stay in magmoor. but the problem is AFAIK you can only have 2 tanks before flaahgra, that doesn't seem to be enough to get past the 3rd room (if you can get there even, i keep getting close). i can't seem to get the main plaza tank with a tbj either. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:07:36 PM |
| Kip you newbie ;) Go through the room where you fought hive mecha for the missiles, and into the room behind it. Roll through the hole and that takes you Straight to where the elevator to magmoor is. Take a right and you're in the vault room with the bomb jump puzzle. Continue past that, and you get your third energy tank =p Oh, and i was trying to bomb jump up to the vine walkway in the section of the talon overworld with the boost ball half-pipe, but, i can't seem to get enough height. Plus the ledge i'm doing it on is a little sloped, making things a little more difficult. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:15:32 PM |
| hmm so is it possible to have anymore than that? i think with 4 tanks the chance it could be done climbs to 1%. but having space jump somehow would sure help since you could jump across the lava faster and take less damage. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:48:12 PM |
| The 4th energy tank you can get is in magmoor =\ But i still think there may be a chance to get space jump without the boostball. I've been trying all sorts of things in the talon overworld boost ball room. Like, jump off a ledge, morph into ball, and try and get some speed that way. I even tried rolling to a side, laying a bomb before i hit the peak, and rolling back down into the bomb, but still holding the opposite direction. Almost impossible to do with regularity, but it does increase your height on the ramp. But using tbj in various places might be the key to getting spacejump. I can't think of a better position than on the topmost ledge closest to the vine bridge. But anyways, the furthest i get on my magmoor attempts is the second set of flamethrowers. i'm not sure how you could get any further without space jump or an energy tank. I was hoping that maybe once you reached the room where you get icespreader, that you wouldn't take damage but, i've yet to make it there to find out =p |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:50:50 PM |
| i almost made it to monitor station or whatever that room is after shore tunnel, but then the energy just does not last. the magmoor entrance from chozo ruins isn't any better, it seems like you lose energy more rapidly the further you go, and i can't even get past the second room that way. the only way this would happen is using the overworld elevator (and that's the one without a save point next to it =[). |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:54:54 PM |
| nope, shore tunnel isn't a cool room. the next cool room is the elevator to phendrana. if shore tunnel was a cool room it'd probably be easy, you can just open the door to the next room and shoot those boxes, then pull in the health, and keep farming health until you have enough to get through. to get past the second set of flamethrowers jump while hugging the wall, they shouldn't hit you then. or if they do it shouldn't be enough to drag you down into the lava. and of course quickly destroy all the boxes in that room to get health (there's like 5 or 6 in all). |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:10:00 PM |
| Hmmm, even if you were able to get spacejump, how much damage would you save by not touching the lava? It would have to be enough to get through the whole monitor station, and that includes the ball puzzle room *shrug* I'm not sure if it'll be possible at this point. But my question from last night: Can any figure out how to get into that 3rd room from the spider track puzzle chamber? I think it may lead to the hydro water room and backoutside to the entrance that you get to with the grapple beam, but i'm not sure. |
| From: Icesorcofdeath | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:14:50 PM |
| isnt spider required to enter metroid primes lair? --- Currently Playing: Diablo 2LOD, Unreal Tournament 2003, Metroid Fusion, Metroid Prime Waiting for: Skies of Arcadia, ShadowBane. Star Wars Galaxies |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:30:32 PM |
| no, you can just space jump through the phazon to the end, taking like 5 damage which you can easily make up for since prime gives ultra energy when you destroy his orbs. great thing to do, especially in speed runs. yeah banks, i don't know about this thing. if everything goes right and i don't get pushed down into the lava by the flamethrowers, i can get a little over halfway through shore tunnel, then the energy runs out. and i'm using common sense and opening the first room's door from far away, then morphing into ball form before i go through (so i don't waste time switching in the lava). but even then by the time i enter the second room i'm already close to losing the first tank. the second room takes everything else away since it's so long (if the crates gave ultra energy instead of small i could do it). |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:32:39 PM |
| yeah, the doors in ore processing are like this: one goes back to elite research, one goes into the grapple beam room, one goes to level 2 of the mines, one goes to that 2D water room then back to main quarry. |
| From: zell99 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:46:01 PM |
| As far as I can think, the Varia Suit will be needed in a low % game. (You can't get through Magmoor with only 1 tank). The grapple beam seams required to get the Plasma beam, unless someone finds a way to get it using tbj. (Is there anywhere else where the grapple beam would be absolutely required? The Metroid Quarantines caves maybe?) The spider ball is needed in the Ore Processing room, according to Banks, and I don't think you can go any other way. The charge beam is required to break the cordite panels blocking the 2 runic symbols in the Sun Tower. The super jumps. Well. I think in the Phazon Mines (Metroid Quarantines mushrooms) you'd absolutly need the super jumps. (I don't know for sure though). Maybe tbj could do the work? Dunno... =// I Just tried to make a little resumŽ of what's been said up to now. On my part, I haven't gotten the tbj to work well yet (didn't have much time to play). I'll work on it later. Good luck to all of you who are trying to do these crazy things =)) --- BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70 http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/ |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:50:19 PM |
| even playing on normal with 3 tanks i can't get through without the varia. if i had 2 more tanks even, you could barely do it if it was possible (with 3 more it'd be easy i think). besides, even if you could, you would have to kill flaahgra eventually since that one artifact won't show up in his room until he's dead. so at best, the varia could only be put off, not skipped. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:56:13 PM |
| Well, with that settled, i'll try to confirm wave > space jump |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:13:27 PM |
| One thing i was thinking about. Are you able to freeze the Barbed Wasps in the sun tower? If not on normal, then on hard maybe? If you could, perhaps you could jump off of their frozen body, double jump up above the spider track obstruction, and do a mid-air morph ball switch and try to attach yourself to the track that way. Thus avoiding Charged shot / Super missile |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:27:28 PM |
| haha, that's very clever, but i don't know if it'd work even if the wasps can survive 1 ice beam shot. you know that room after central dynamo with all the metroids and the force field. first time through the game i didn't know there were invisible platforms for a while, so i tried to freeze a metroid and jump on him to get to the other side. but you just slide off when you do it and the game doesn't let you jump. not sure if it'd be the same for the wasps though. i messed around in ore processing for a bit, i don't see how you'd even get to the second floor without the spider ball. a tbj doesn't go high enough, the closest it seems you can get is if you space jump while standing on that thing with the hologram. anything else to test besides wave beam before space jump and space jump before flaahgra? |
| From: Divine DG Cannon 3 | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:32:13 PM |
| Great job, Banks;) --- -Divine DG Cannon #34646 Dressing like an ugly slut is synonymous with "sexiness" these days, didn't you guys know that? >_> - Oooska |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:41:59 PM |
| just for fun i decided to give myself a free ride up to 2nd floor of ore processing by going up the blue spider ball track. from the 2nd floor i was able to space jump straight up to the 3rd floor by jumping on the top of the blue track. trying to see if i can go from the 3rd floor to the grapple beam room/hydro tunnel. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 6:58:43 PM |
| I'm not able to tbj up to the chozo ice temple. i can double jump to the ice area left of the temple, but once again, cannot attain the required height to reach higher ground. I can't access it by tbj by the platform either. Did you get any farther in the spider track puzzle room kip? |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 7:11:40 PM |
| did you read the wave before space jump topic? amasawa posted some stuff about how he got up there. i can almost get to the top floor, i know you can land on the top side of the tracks because i went to the top floor via the yellow track then jumped down. but it's tough... for some reason i'm not landing on them when i jump from the same floor. i've been trying to find other places to jump from. |
| From: Hairy Tongue | Posted: 1/19/2003 7:43:31 PM |
| *sniff* This reminds me of that wave beam before grappling beam trick in SM...oh, the nostalgia... --- i like cheese |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 7:55:14 PM |
| I read his post, and apparently, he mid-air morphed at the height of his triple jump to reach the ledge. this new tbjm may lead to Space jump before Flaahgra. Try using it to get to the vine platform in the talon overworld, by the boost ramp =o |
| From: zell99 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:05:21 PM |
| Banks- I tried to get on the vine bridge, but I can't tbj high enough yet (need just a little more to get in the furnace)... so you, awasama or kip go try it out =P --- BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70 http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/ |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:06:33 PM |
| With a sloppy tbjm, i was able to get chest level with the platform, perhaps with a perfectly timed tbjm, i can get on it! |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:12:11 PM |
| man, i keep trying to jump up to the top level in ore processing. i keep going over the top side of those tracks but she won't go on them for some reason. and i know you can land on them. i don't get this. you can jump from 2nd to 3rd floor but i'm still trying to get from 3rd to top. if that was possible, and you could get from 1st to 2nd somehow, then you could get grapple beam before spider ball. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:15:05 PM |
| Well, i'd like to know exactly when Amasawa morphed out of the triple jump, because the ledge below the Chozo Ice Temple is pretty high up, about equivalent to the vine bridge. Like, ascending upon the 6th bomb's blast? just before the peak? just after the peak? |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:18:20 PM |
| And i don't think the small gap between the ledge and the platform is helping either =p |
| From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:34:25 PM |
| Hmm...well I finally cracked down and spent 15 minutes on the tbj. I can do a 2.5 or so, very inconsistently. Problem is, Bomb #5 almost never propels me, even when I do it way low. BTW I use Bank's method at the first post, not the jam on the buttons method. kip, you made it to the furnace right? Did you use your jam the A button method? I plan to get ice beam/suit b4 thardus after I perfect my tbj. |
| From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:36:41 PM |
| Ah, this reminds me of when I tried to get all the parts in Pikmin without Blue pikmin. Damn, I got so far... --- <SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0 OHIO STATE-31 miami-24 |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:41:26 PM |
| "Did you use your jam the A button method?" nope, i doubt it'd work. i used banks' method. bomb 5 and 6 is hard to do but it gets a lot more height which is important. well this ore processing stuff is going nowhere so i guess i'll go back to space jump before flaahgra for a bit. do you guys think ice beam + gravity suit before thardus would be worth it in a speed run, assuming you could get it down? i'm not sure what to do in my 28% speed runs anymore, it's getting complicated with all these possibilities like space jump before flaahgra. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:57:46 PM |
| I swear i'll get this jump if it kills me. I better re-start my wavebeam/spacejump game over. Because i'm not doing this jump again, lol. I think if i had the perfect tbj, and the perfectly timed morph, i could just BARELY catch the ledge. The distance is a killer. You have to be Holding forward just as you hit bomb #6 and morph out at the same time. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 9:40:57 PM |
| um... when you guys are trying to get on the vine bridge, which ledge are you doing it from? the one with the geemer or the lower one? if i tbj from the ledge with the geemer i can almost get above the bridge, but the problem is the ledge is a bit away from the bridge, so if i try to move forward to go onto it i'd just fall down. the other ledge is closer to the bridge but it's lower, so it doesn't seem like you can get high enough on that one. and i try to tbj in the landing site that doesn't really get anywhere. the surface is screwed up in most places. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 9:42:58 PM |
| The ledge with the geemer. I know you can almost get enough height, that's why i wanted to try morphing out at the peak of the jump, because Amasawa had success with the chozo ice temple jump using that method. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:19:47 PM |
| can't seem to get up. part of the bridge is in my way when i morph out, unless there's some trick to get a lot more height when you morph out. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:31:00 PM |
| Hey Kip, I was attempting this move again; my only question is what how you're supposed to get to the Reflecting Pool (where the Ice Beam is) from the Hall of Elders. Is there some obscene way of Bomb jumping up to that Morph Ball slot or what? |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:35:20 PM |
| the morph ball slot at the end of the spider ball track in hall of elders? just space jump on the tip of that round ornament thing on the wall near it (there's a little square sticking out), then space jump again to the ledge at the end of the track. i think there might be another way to get to the ice beam, but that one's a lot easier. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:40:55 PM |
| Well, i think you can't reach that ledge using tbj. The reason it may work on the chozo ice temple ledge is because you don't have a gap to cross. I think maybe when the ball is touching edge and you morph out, it automatically pulls you up onto it. But with the gap, you just morph out, it the edge and fall off. I haven't been able to do it. =\ |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:48:02 PM |
| OK, I figured it had to do with the little ledges sticking out, but I didn't try it much in depth. As near as I can figure so far, you basically get locked inside the Research Labs if you try to go in the back route (through Frozen Pike) because as banks said, the glass won't break until the Metroid is killed. If Metroid is still alive, then no Pirate will shatter the glass. Unless someone figures out one hell of a huge Bomb Climb move, the Spider Ball will be required at some point (Ore Processing comes to mind). This trick would be in the bag if the tbj wasn't so tough to do. One more thing: from the Sun Tower Access chamber, you can go into Magmoor Caverns without the Varia Suit, but even speeding through as fast as I could, I only made it to Monitor Station (the heat + Defense Turrets are what killed me finally). |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:55:46 PM |
| yeah, i don't think the spider ball can be skipped. in ore processing you can space jump from the second floor to the third, but i don't know if you can get high enough to go from the third to top floor. and i don't know about first to second either. and then you would have to be able to get to the top of phazon processing center without it (so you can leave to magmoor after you're done with whatever). and then there's the plasma beam, unless it's possible to space jump to the door there from the start of the track. i can't get through magmoor without the varia either. i almost got to monitor station but the 3 tanks just don't last. and after monitor station there's still 1 more hot room before the elevator to phendrana. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:02:37 PM |
| Indeed. I also attempted exiting the Phazon Processing Center (where you normally have to wind around the Spider Ball track to reach the top of the room) and it can't be done, even with a successful Space Jump to the ledge where you find the Missile Expansion; you get stuck with nowhere to go after a while :P If someone can find a way to make it through the Fungal Halls and Metroid Quarantines w/o the Grappling Beam, that could save a bit of time, though you wouldn't be able to get all the items or complete the Log Book. |
| From: majin nick | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:36:16 PM |
| Do you guys need help finding energy tanks because I got a list of where there are some in Chozo Ruins and Tallon Overworld. --- "Bold mother****** dont you limit your mind, all the hate in your heart will leave you being blind."- Disturbed |
| From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:41:12 AM |
| You guys are great. I am not even going to attempt. I just had a thought that I believe has not been said in any previous posts for the Ore Processing room. Is it possible to use the triple bomb jump within the caged spider track area (where you would normally latch onto)? Also, in the area where you come out onto a new floor, there is a blue shield like thing. Can this be used as stairs for the next floor? I cannot try these things out myself because I had way too much trouble even doing the double bomb jump for that energy tank. --- -SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 1:05:17 AM |
| I'm working on a web page right now, so hopefully i'll have pics up soon. Anyone know of the components required to transfer tv images to your computer? Like through a USB port? |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 1:09:43 AM |
| It's not the fact that you can't bomb jump into the cages in ore processing. It's the fact that even if you could get to the top of the track, you'd fall out as soon as you tried to exit it, because each exit is a horizontal section of spider ball track, and you can't latch onto it. And the blue thing at the bottom is phazon, which damages you, and you can't stand on it at all, i tried =\ |
| From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/20/2003 11:49:05 AM |
| I thought of that this morning. Could you use the ball boost to propel yourself out? --- -SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker. |
| From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:40:31 PM |
| Probably not. TO BANKS / KIP: I was just wondering, [A] if you saw my topics about TBJ, and [B] if you were inspired/got help from those topics. I don't want partial credit or anything, I just wanna know. --- Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE! "Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image." |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:46:50 PM |
| yeah Banks, that's correct; I morphed out of the tbj. I'm not sure exactly what the timing is, to be honest. I would guess that I pushed the button just before the peak of the triple bomb jump. The timing doesn't seem to need to be too precise, but you do have to be pushing forward when you push the button. The important thing is that when it's done correctly, off a triple or double bomb jump, Samus runs forward in midair. When I successfully reached the ledge, I kind of hung there in midair for a few seconds in that sort of way that tells you if you move much, you're going to fall. I got really technical at that point and decided that jamming on the B button in the hopes that jumping to more level ground nearby would do the trick was the best tactic before she lost her footing. It worked. <:-) --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:52:19 PM |
| and yeah, with a gap in between it seems to me like it's extremelyu difficult, if it's possible at all. That's why I chose to try jumping to the temple cliff from the left side on the platform below, because there's a corner that you can push up against while you're trying the tbj. The ground's not even, so it's harder than the spider ball track in the furnace, but it seems like pushing against the ice slows Samus's fall a bit because the wall isn't perfectly vertical, so I could space out my bombs a little better. It was a pain because of the inconsistency, though. --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 4:28:19 PM |
| CUBEfreaK: I think kip mentioned your original thread about the triple bomb jump. I derived the timing of the sequence of the bombs myself, but i would give you credit for the method of manipulating the bomb refill counter. The tbj wouldn't be possible without knowing how to use 6 bombs in sequence =D I'm not sure if is possible to reach that vine ledge for space jump early, but i don't think it really matters much. You have to get it later anyways. What i'd like to know now is, if it is possible to Bomb jump from the spider ball track across the obstacle in the Sun Tower. If i could do this, then a 26% game would be possible.(the charge beam and super missile wouldn't be needed) |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:03:18 PM |
| yeah, i told tlj he should thank cubefreak since he helped keep the triple bomb jump stuff alive, took part in discussions, etc. i always thought getting up that spider ball track might be possible since it's not that high off the ground, but it didn't seem possible to get enough height with a double bomb jump. i first saw akiraz talking about triple bomb jumps around the time people found out the thermal visor isn't needed. after that more people slowly started talking about and the methods kept getting more refined until we made it up there. =] according to devilbit space jump before flaahgra may be possible by dbj/tbj'ing off the rock near your ship and morphing in midair to catch the ledge nearest the rock... did you check that thread out, banks? =P and yeah 26% would be possible if you could get to the sunchamber somehow... not sure how that would happen though, i need to take a look at that track again. but the problem is those damn oculuses would be trying to knock you off all the time, and you can't kill them directly. |
| From: Cyan of Doma | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:10:27 PM |
| I still dont see this under the codes and secrets for this game! Someone post it! Ill post it myself and give kip, banks, and cubefreak credits. --- Currently playing: Final Fantasy Legend 2, Final Fantasy VI, Blades of steel, Ninja Gaiden 2, Quake 2(PC), Mechwarrior, Zelda:OoS&OoA |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:25:53 PM |
| Kip: what i meant was, kill thardus and get the spider ball. Then kill the barbed wasps in the room so you don't get hit at all. Roll to the very top of the spider ball track, just under that blockage. Then set up a double / triple bomb jump mid-air off the uppermost tip of the track and see if you can get enough height to reach the other side. I don't currently have a save that has Spider ball AND that blockage still there, so i'm working on that atm. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:49:59 PM |
| hmm, that doesn't sound too bad actually. depends how high the blockage goes though... i forget. charge beam would be depressing to play without but oh well. i don't think ice beam/missile would work on ice troopers anymore since i don't think they can be frozen with uncharged shots (metroids can be). not to mention no more perpetual stunning of wave troopers with charged wave shots... phazon mines could be a challenge in hard 26%. =] |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:57:39 PM |
| 26% Hard w/o Charged shots sounds borderline impossible. The jump doesn't look to bad when i last ran into the room. Maybe even achievable with a double bomb jump. But the fact that it's in midair may be it's downfall. I don't think you can catch bomb 3 after laying bomb 2 (double bomb jump) in midair, so you have have to hold R the whole time you're performing it. If it works, good luck on Omega Pirate LOL |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:02:24 PM |
| Oh and another thing. is there anything bad about being moderated for a post? I linked the old zelda commercial about 2 weeks ago in the SNES zelda forum, and just got modded for it this morning. It was moved to the zelda social board. Does this affect my karma at all? Seems kind of a lame reason to get Moderated Messages: 1 in my profile -_- |
| From: SolrFlare | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:11:48 PM |
| I regards to the Ice Troopers question, I seem to recall at least once freezing them with a series of uncharged shots...you just have to keep pelting the same ice trooper quickly and I think it does happen after a few shots. Now without charge beam though, Waves troopers truly would become the worst of all Trooper types heh and yeah bosses would be nasty. Here's hoping you can pull it off though. |
| From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:22:37 PM |
| >As near as I can figure so far, you basically get locked inside the Research Labs if you try to go in the back route (through Frozen Pike) because as banks said, the glass won't break until the Metroid is killed. If Metroid is still alive, then no Pirate will shatter the glass. I've been thinkin' about that....it still might be possible. I've noticed that the WaveBuster combo has that "shoot-thru-walls" effect that the Wave Beam had in the older games. It might be possible to kill the metroid using the WaveBuster, which would then trigger the pirate that breaks the glass. |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:34:50 PM |
| Not sure about skipping that covered area of the spider ball track in the sun tower; perhaps it's possible. I don't remember trying it. but yeah, I can tell you that fighting without the charge beam on NORMAL is damn nigh impossible. You lose a lot just being unable to stun wave troopers (and even being unable to make the power troopers hesitate when you blast them with a charged shot). I tried it the other day and could only make it as far as the room with the spider ball track pillar before I bit the dust, after many tries... and that was getting lucky and actually having full health plus 5 missiles by the time I got there. I can't even imagine what hard mode without the charge beam would be like. o_O --- "BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums |
| From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:24:57 PM |
| Triple Bomb BUMP! --- Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE! "Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image." |
| From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:37:00 PM |
| If I remember right there's rubble after the Magmoor-Phendrana elevator when you first go to Phendrana, and it's only breakable with charge beam. I remember 'cause I had to go get it. Maybe power-bombs would break it, but who cares? You can't get them because you can't pass that room after the Phendrana elevator. IF I'm right about that charge beam thing... --- "There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:39:38 PM |
| regular missiles work on those. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:42:16 PM |
| I'm on a normal game without charge beam and i've gotten past that. I'm actually stuck on the wave beam sheegoth boss. Since i'm used to having like, 5 energy tanks by the time i'm fighting her, i'm used to playing it sloppy. A little more difficult when i have only 99 energy. Any tips kip? |
| From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:52:05 PM |
| Sheegoths are easy - just get close until it does its breath attack, dodge it by either backing off or jumping over it, then blast with missiles. Lather, rinse, repeat. --- Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE! "Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image." |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:54:12 PM |
| Why is it that whenever i post for help, i always end up doing it the very next attempt anyways. 96 energy left too =p Soon i'll be able to test out the sun tower. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:55:37 PM |
| Oh and i only had 5 missiles to work with CUBEfreaK ;) I just used bombs. Rolled by his head, laid 3, then scurried off. Hit and Run is the way to go =p |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 8:03:05 PM |
| i just looked at that track again. the blockage doesn't look impossibly high, but i don't know if you can get above it with a double bomb jump. at any rate it seems to be lower in height than the spider ball track to the furnace, but that could just be my imagination/the fact that i looked up at it from the ground. |
| From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 8:04:00 PM |
| Oh, yeah, you're going for 26% . . . I forgot. --- Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE! "Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image." |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 10:06:32 PM |
| Kip, how much damage does the Gravity Suit protect against as opposed to the varia. Just curious, because i haven't taken on thardus before in a low percent game. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 10:11:30 PM |
| i don't know the exact value, but i don't think it's anymore than 25% of an improvement. it's semi noticable though. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 12:22:04 AM |
| Ok, the v2.7 update is finished, with this trick incorporated as an alternate method. It's placed in the speed run right after the Wave Beam pick-up, and the tbj is detailed (hope I got it right) under the Abilities section. Primary credit given to banks, kip, and CUBEfreaK for all the info, plus everyone else in this thread for keeping the discussion alive. My initial time runs today showed timestamp variance of +/-6 minutes when executing this trick, which can cut off roughly 35-40 minutes of a 100% run. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 12:50:32 AM |
| hmm... what about in a 28% run? do you think it would be worthwhile? you'd have to leave phendrana after getting the wave beam to go get the ice beam, then taking extra time to go through the rest of the pirate base instead of leaving after super missile, but then you wouldn't have to leave phendrana, get ice beam, come back for gravity suit, then leave again to go to the frigate... |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 12:59:28 AM |
| Quite possibly. I for one haven't really attempted this run; my best one laid out 33% - I'm too scared of not using Energy Tanks :{ But this whole trick certainly does cut some time off the clock - time that can be used later on to get stuff, or go for the insanely low time by running for low percentage. I figure I'll eventually get around to it - I did finally complete Super Metroid with 28%, so it's only a matter of time before I try it with Prime. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:22:22 AM |
| Well, it all depends if i can get a 26% game to work ;) I just beat Thardus, a wimp on normal, about the same difficulty w/o the charge beam. I just spammed Power beam the whole time. I started the battle with only 25 energy, and got to 99 just off his rocks, lol. I was on edge, because the last time i had saved was right by the super missile, and i had already gotten the gravity suit by this point. Anyways, with him out of the way, i backtracked through the magmoor caverns exit and made my way to the tallon overworld, saving at my ship. I'm now off to the sun tower to see if my efforts will bear fruit... And, is it possible to get the Plasma beam without the grappling hook? I don't remember which part you needed the grappling hook for, but i'll definitely go back to investigate in a bit. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:27:19 AM |
| If someone can find a way to get to the platforms without the Grapple Beam, you could get the Plasma Beam real early as you leave Phendrana after Thardus (you pass through the Geothermal Core). As it stands right now, you use the Grappling Beam to swing from a ledge to one of the platforms to start raising them. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:36:30 AM |
| in geothermal core (place going to plasma beam), there's a grapple point you use to get to those platforms so you can boost ball them to reveal the olympics spider ball track. other than that, the only problematic places i see are the metroid quarantine caves with all the big mushrooms. tbjing could work though, maybe. but i bet the surfaces there are screwed up, so it'd be harder. there's a grapple point about two rooms away from omega pirate, but i seriously doubt that one has to be used. going into the phazon pit and space jumping to the other side almost gets you up there, so i bet a tbj would work (only thing is you'd only get a few tries to do it in low %, like one or two). i'll play around a bit with space jump before flaahgra again, using the method devilbit was talking about. too bad i don't know yet what kind of things i need to hook up my video capture card to everything else or i'd be prepared to make a video of it if i was successful. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:41:00 AM |
| Hmm i see... Well here's the final result of the Sun Tower. When you destroy the hives / wasps and roll up the spider track, you are unable to gain any height off of bombs. A bomb blast will shoot you off horizontally, because the blockage acts as a wall directly above the track. Barbed wasps die in one ice shot, and when i tried to make them hit me in an attempt to knock me up above the obstacle, it instead knocked me clean off the track. You can jump on top of destroyed hive nests, but that only brings you to about 3/4 up the spider track that is already available. The only way to get the Sun Chamber artifact without super missiles would be to Collect it directly after beat flaahgra, which means you need to have visited the Hall of Elders once already. Which in turn means you need to have acquired the wave beam, which means you need to get through magmoor caverns before you get the varia suit. This is already impossible with only 4 tanks of energy, and even if you COULD do it with these energy tanks, it nullifies the 26% game. So pending future tricks, there is no way to beat the game without the charge beam / super missile. Now i'm off to try and get the plasma beam prematurely. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:41:35 AM |
| I attempted the tbj in the Fungal Halls and Quarantine caves to see if the Grapple could be eliminated; all my attempts succeeded in me rolling off the tip of the 'shrooms. But working on the Plasma Beam, that could be a worthy challenge. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:42:48 AM |
| tlj: did you try Morphing out of ball mode/jamming B as you hit the lip of the platform? that seems to help on sloped surfaces. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:45:51 AM |
| Nope, but I can go back and see if that gets me anywhere. Though, unless someone finds a way of getting the Plasma Beam w/o the Grapple, then perfecting the Fungal Halls and Quarantines w/o it could be a waste of time. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:47:17 AM |
| hmm, does the artifact appear right after beating flaahgra? i never understood what triggers the artifact appearing. say you beat him then turned around and went back in and tried to tbj on him to get to the artifact, would it work? |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:48:39 AM |
| I don't think so. If memory serves, the Artifact only appears after the three Chozo Ghosts are beaten, which only appear after visiting the Hall of Elders... |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:55:19 AM |
| Yes, the artifact only appears after beating the chozo ghosts. And i wouldn't recomend trying to tbj off of puddle spores. =p A spacejump gets you awfully close to that platform you grapple too though. So, perhaps tbj will reach it from the loan platform in the middle of the lava. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:00:16 AM |
| if i double bomb jump off that rock in the landing site i can almost get up to that ledge devilbit was talking about. it doesn't seem totally out of the question. the only problem is the surface of the rock is so messed up that it's hard to do a tbj on it without falling off. i think it'd get enough height to get on the ledge though, assuming you morphed out in midair. trying some more... |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:02:06 AM |
| Which rock are you talking about btw? The one that juts out and has the little brownish area on the bottom? or what? |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:17:16 AM |
| omg, i was partly on the ledge with a tbj but she slid off. asjfhaskjghkjashg. i mean the brown rock to the ship's right. you get on it and morph, then try to tbj and morph out to the ledge next to it (which is near the door going to chozo ruins). seems like the best chance we'd have... IIRC devilbit said he actually got up there in his thread about it, but i don't remember. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:19:44 AM |
| hmm, interesting. I'll have to check it out. Do you tbj to the right? Is that little rock that sloped brown one Directly off the edge of the ledge leading to the Chozo ruins? if yes, i know which one you're talking about. If you could get up there, i wonder how much better you could do on a varia-less run to Phendrana drifts =p |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:41:53 AM |
| argh, i almost did it again. i think this is possible, i'm just no good at morphing out. what's the best time to do it? most of the time if i morph right when bomb 6 hits you she doesn't go anywhere, so i try to do it at the peak of the jump. the rock is that one to your right when you exit the ship, in other words that one near the door going to chozo ruins. it's on the very edge of the level of ground its on, if that makes any sense. =P when you tbj, you want to catch the lowest part of the ledge above it (but it seems like it loves making you slide off if you get it). maybe devilbit's topic has more on it, it's something like "maybe you can get space jump before wave.". |
| From: buffytvsfan | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:13:22 AM |
| Man!! Here and I was working so hard with nothing but the double bomb jump last night!!! Oh well. I'll have to try this out when I get home. I definitely think getting the Space Boots is possible with the tbj. |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:53:39 AM |
| tbj'ing in the Fungal Halls and Metroid Quarantines never panned out; unless I just suck at it, there's one instance where you have to Grapple on a flying Glider to cross one of the sections of Phazon. I did four triple bomb jumps and none got me remotely close to the tip of the mushroom. >< However, actually getting the Space Jump before Flaahgra would probably be beneficial, though to me it seems that in the long run, it might actually add more time to a run simply because you'd have to backtrack out of the Arboretum all the way to the Landing Site. I guess it just depends on if you're going for speed (like me) or low percentage. -Tim who also can't figure out how to change his contributor name :P |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 11:42:12 AM |
| kip- i read DEVILBIT's topic and i'll give it a try. I'm not sure exactly how Space Jump before Flaahgra would help, except for a possible drifts run, but, it's always fun to get items ahead of time =p |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 3:44:13 PM |
| hmm, besides the cuteness factor i wouldn't do space jump before flaahgra unless it saved you time in a speed run. most of all my "serious" games are speed runs now, they might as well be. =P you'd have to leave chozo ruins to go to the landing site, but then, once you got the boost ball you wouldn't have to go from phendrana to tallon overworld and back (something that routinely takes me 6 minutes in hard 28% speed run). can't figure out what's faster. if it took 6 minutes to go from chozo ruins and back to flaahgra after getting it, it probably wouldn't be worth it then (especially considering it's not easy to do). i doubt it would take more than 4 minutes though, but that's assuming you got it first try. =[ |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 5:51:38 PM |
| If the rock you're talking about is the rock i've seen, you're insane. I can't keep on it for more than a second before getting flipped off, let alone complete a double bomb jump. lol As for getting the plasma beam w/o the grapple beam; it might be possible to tbjm off the ground in the lava closest to the lowest platform. I can't test it extensively right now, because puddle spores occupy this room. I think you have to have the power bombs before they leave (or at least have visited the phazon mines at some point.)Hopefully they don't stay until you get the grapple beam, because getting hit by them with 99 energy on normal is annoying enough, let alone getting up and shooting them every 2 tbj attempts. But it may be possible. I just have to get down the phazon mines now to see if i can get rid of them. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 5:58:02 PM |
| "I can't keep on it for more than a second before getting flipped off, let alone complete a double bomb jump. lol" you have to constantly adjust yourself to the direction opposite of the one it's making you go (if you're sliding right, tap left a few times slightly, and so on). about the puddles spores, they're not there when you go to get the plasma beam... but then again i always have the grapple beam, so hopefully that's not the trigger, it's getting the power bomb or something else (ice beam? grav suit?). |
| From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 6:14:04 PM |
| I believe the trigger is just time. They're there the first time, but I went back once (when I was still just wandering aroud aimlessly), and I hadn't gotten PB or GB yet, and they were already gone. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 6:21:09 PM |
| I had the ice beam / gravity suit after beating Thardus, and they were still there. I'm thinking you have to go through the crashed frigate or enter the phazon mines for the first time. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:15:50 PM |
| I was just checking out the new Japanese metroid site http://metroid.jp and noticed that they listed Phendrana Drifts as Ice Valley and Magmoor Caverns as Lava Caves. How funny =p It's weird to think most of Japan hasn't played fusion or prime yet. I guess i finally know how they feel when we get games months late. |
| From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:45:50 PM |
| Sorry to cut in and all but figured I should help your valiant efforts. :-) tlj: I know for a fact that you don't need to go to the Hall of Elders before the Chozo Ghosts show up at the Sunchamber. That's because I went straight to the Sunchamber after beating Thardus my first time through. Don't have a clue what triggers them though. --- "Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!" -intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:48:58 PM |
| Wow Yoda, that's very interesting indeed. The ghosts showed up in the sun chamber without ever visiting the hall of elders? I might have to start over and see if i can trigger the ghosts before dropping down the shaft. Did you visit the artifact chamber beforehand to get the first artifact at the impact crater? |
| From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:54:42 PM |
| I think I did but I don't remember. I remembered there was a Spider Track there so as soon as I got the Spider Ball, I had to try it out. I got whooped since I had never faced those Ghosts before though! --- "Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!" -intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:57:08 PM |
| i already got a save right before flaahgra (that magmoor without varia suit one that i also use to play around with getting space jump), so if you have any suggestions for getting the ghosts to appear just let me know. i guess i'll mess around with it now, i keep sliding off that stupid ledge in the landing site anyway. |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:58:01 PM |
| I'm curious because, if you can trigger the ghosts before you drop down that hole by visiting the artifact chamber before hand, you could beat the game without the charge beam or the super missile. Making a 26% game possible. I'll start a new game right now to test it out. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:00:06 PM |
| i haven't visited the artifact temple so i'll go there and grab truth without saving. =] |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:25:25 PM |
| uh, well, they're not appearing. i went to the temple and got truth, then killed flaahgra. i keep going back and forth between the sunchamber and sun tower but the ghosts aren't showing up (neither is the sunchamber artfiact). any suggestions? i keep trying to get sun tower access to "reload" itself by almost jumping down the sun tower, but moving back to the ledge before i fall down, if that makes any sense. =P |
| From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:28:29 PM |
| Maybe you have to kill Thardus? That's the last thing I did before going there. But that's kinda useless since you have to beat Flaahgra first. --- "Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!" -intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe |
| From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:29:04 PM |
| Well, the only other thing i can think of is to visit magmoor caverns before killing flaahgra *shrug* doing that right now. |
| From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:30:34 PM |
| they probably appear before thardus (like the hall of elders ghost), but since it seems impossible to get back up to the sunchamber without the spider ball, i can't really tell. =P |
| From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:30:47 PM |
| maybe try going into the furnace and then going as far as you can (to |