(Skip Navigation) Metroid 2002

Current Speed Runs

All Speed Runs

Introduction

GameFAQs Topics

Techniques

Early Items (Quick Links)

Skipping the Thermal Visor

Skipping the Grapple Beam

Skipping the Charge Beam and Super Missiles

Skipping the Gravity Suit

Skipping the Spider Ball

Skipping the Boost Ball

Skipping Space Jump

Early Missile Expansions

Early Energy Tanks

Speed Tricks

Boss Tricks

Version Differences

Secret Worlds

Other

 

Ice Beam + Gravity Suit before Thardus using Triple Jump

Archived by

Vigama

From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:30:31 PM
Because most people are ignoring the "wave beam before space jump topic", i'll move this discovery into a new post.

With a little encouragement from kip, and a little ingenuity on my part, we've discovered a way to get the ice beam and gravity suit before ever fighting thardus.

I'll dub this the *official triple jump* because you can obviously get more height from it than a standard double jump. And it indeed uses 3 jumps to reach it's peak height.

After you've gotten the wave beam, back track to the Chozo Ruins and make your way to the Furnace. You see the spider ball track there? Well, using the Triple Jump, you can enter the hole without using the track!

Here's how you do it. It involves using a total of 6 bombs to perform, and you will be manipulating the refill counter a bit to execute it.

1st: you will lay bomb #1 and let it blast you into the air.

2nd: As SOON as you land, lay bomb #2.

3rd: RIGHT BEFORE bomb #2 blows up, you will place bomb #3 (a'la Double Bomb Jump method)The placing of bomb #3 MUST be done before your bomb meter refills, or you will not have enough bombs to complete the Triple Bomb Jump.

4th: As soon as bomb #2 explodes, place bomb #4 at the peak of your jump.

5th: When Bomb #3 shoots you into the air, you want to place Bomb #5 RIGHT BEFORE you reach bomb #4 (roughly 75-80% the distance from the ground to bomb #4's position)

6th: When Bomb #4 blasts you into the air, you want to place Bomb #6 at the peak, if not 80%+ of your jump.

If timed perfectly (and i mean perfectly) you will fall down after placing bomb #6, be propelled back up by bomb #5, and then hit bomb #6's blast. Hold forward and you should have just enough height to catch the lip of the hole and pull yourself in!

Congratulations! you're now able to continue on and collect the ice beam far before you were intended to. Proceed to go back to the drifts and go to the bottom of the research facility areas (where you would get the thermal goggles) and open that door. Continue on and get yourself the gravity suit! You can now go as far as you can get without needing the spider ball.

Demonstration of the Triple Jump:

O. <-- 1st Bomb

O
#_ <-- 1st bomb explodes to start the refill counter

O.. <-- 2nd and 3rd bomb set accordingly

O. <-- 4th bomb set
#. <-- 2nd bomb explodes, yet 3rd bomb remains

*Note* Next section is not on the same scale as the previous section.

O. <-- 6th bomb set at 90%-peak of jump
# <-- 4th bomb explodes
. <-- 5th bomb placed at 75-80% (just before 4th bomb)
#_ <-- 3rd bomb explodes

O <-- Samus at Triple Jump Height (2.80 off the ground)
# <-- 6th bomb explodes

# <-- 5th bomb explodes
_
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:36:29 PM
now if i could just get the timing down to get up that platform in phendrana shorelines i'd try to beat the game without space jump, even given the fact that it's easily one of the best items and there's no reason why you'd want to skip it aside from the remote possibility of 27%.
From: Enter The Dragon | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:36:59 PM
I like this trick! Any other uses for the triple jump?

*Gives Banks17 a cookie.*
---
If all we had were signatures, this wouldn't BE a message board!
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:40:44 PM
Kip- about the chozo ghosts before you the ruins boss. You can't because there's a wave beam door blocking the hall of elders, and instead of chozo ghosts in the furnace room, there are those digger guys.

Oh, and i wonder if there the graphic for ball form will be bugged with the gravity suit, seeing as how we don't even have the spider ball yet!
From: Slortex | Posted: 1/18/2003 4:43:04 PM
Awesome. That's really all I have to say. Can't wait to give this sucker a whirl.

Well, I can wait, because I'm waiting now, and I'll likely do a good deal of waiting before I stop waiting. But I digress.
From: superduperpantsman | Posted: 1/18/2003 5:06:17 PM
What the heck is the triple jump? I thought there was only a space jump...
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 5:50:37 PM
I just started a new game, as soon as i got the morph ball bombs, i was able to complete the trick. ^_^

Just remember, place the 5th bomb JUST BELOW the 4th bomb, and place the 6th bomb WHILE ON YOUR WAY UP, NOT ON THE DESCENT

Time to mess around on the other side of the track now =D
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/18/2003 6:02:18 PM
Very cool.
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 6:08:01 PM
You can't get very far without the wavebeam. you can enter the room which contains the furnace and roll down the pipe, but after that, the next room is blocked off with a wave beam door.

Now that i've had some fun, time to go get the wave beam and then come back =p
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 6:10:41 PM
Oh and kip, which door were you trying to get to in the drifts? i could see if i could hop that as well
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:16:06 PM
"which door were you trying to get to in the drifts?"

it's what that other thread was originally about: using a tbj to get up to the chozo ice temple without space jump, therefore getting the wave beam before it. maybe you could get space jump before flaahgra by doing a tbj too.

hmm, i almost got up that spider ball track, i was on it but i didn't go high enough to go into the tunnel, so i fell off the top. the timing of the last 2 bombs is very tricky (not to execute the jump; to get high enough). i'm playing a new game so if i can get up, i'll see what happens when you go through to thardus the back way, etc.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:18:32 PM
sweeeet... way to go Banks. =) I'm gonna go try this again and see if I can do any better with it now.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:20:24 PM
Hehe, yeah it's all on the placement of bombs 5 and 6. Sometimes i would get high enough that the camera would zoom in as if i were entering the tunnel, but i somehow would just fall back off.

On my new game, i just got the boostball, so i could try and do the tbj into the icetemple, but seems to be a difficult maneuver
From: SkedarHunter | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:21:42 PM
Sounds like a cool idea, but I haven't tried it yet. Only time I've tried to jumble the storyline up was when I fought Thardus without the Thermal Visor(he was easy, too).
---
Guy on Jason X: Guys, it's ok, he just wanted his machete back! Me: Yeah, so he can hack you to pieces with it.<PDE Member>
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:23:12 PM
But if you even Were able to skip the spacejump there to get the wavebeam, wouldn't space jump be necessary later in the game for some of the rooms? I mean, imagine jumping over Omega's / Prime's 2nd form's wave with no space jump. Not sure if that's possible in a 27% game
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:32:11 PM
that's what i'm curious about. there are a lot of places where you can use a tbj to get up instead of space jump, and a lot of places where you can make it with a normal jump, but since you already have the space jump, you're inclined to use it all the time just to be sure you'll make those jumps, you know?

jumping over OP and prime would be harder, but hardly impossible. as far as i'm concerned that's not the problem, it's a part where you absolutely can't go any further without space jump. all the "battle" portions can be overcome by trying harder/getting luckier.

anyway, a couple "impossible" places i'm thinking is that one room in the crashed frigate with all the far out suspended ledges you have to jump to. and then there's the observatory in the phendrana pirate base. there's one part where you can't go further unless you space jump (and even then you barely make it to the next ledge). i haven't tried using a tbj, but i doubt it would work...
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:35:32 PM
but banks, i hear you... if 27% was possible, i'd rather something like the grapple beam was left out, instead of space jump.

space jump = godly item.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:38:29 PM
Yeah, tbj is hard enough to perform as it is. I've made it into the tunnel about 4 times now, and that's with No enemies, no moving targets, and no gaps to cross. And even then, i'm successful maybe ONCE in 50 attempts.

But, i sure would like to know how far you can get without space jump using tbj =D
From: EthyleneOxide | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:41:59 PM
nice stuff, but does the ice beam work well against Thardus?
---
AKA: Feuerstrom
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:48:13 PM
cool, I actually made it up into the tunnel in the furnace using this trick a few minutes ago. I can't seem to get the timing right again, but it's nice to at least see it once. I was so pleased with myself that I promptly rolled onto the breakway floor and sat there with my thumb up my ass instead of taking advantage of my success with the tbj and passing the breakaway floors quickly to get the energy tank first. =)

thanks for the help, kip & Banks. I'm having fun messing around with this, and will let you know if I have any success getting any other items early.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:53:47 PM
yeah, it's all about the last 2 bombs. it has to be so perfect. =P
From: Wraith 1 | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:55:23 PM
Nice work. Not only is the concept great, the explination was both coherent and easy to understand.
---
Thank God for my vote and our President, he's someone people can actually look at with a straight face and respect.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 7:57:03 PM
I just managed it again, so I guess maybe even bomb-jumping challenged peeps like me can have some success with this. (I sucked at the infinite bomb jumping in Metroid) btw I had my brain in gear enough to remember to get past the breakaway floors this time, but not enough to remember that the e-tank I was thinking of is on the bottom, not the top. X-D (Sometimes my own dumbassness amazes even me, which is saying a lot if you follow the logic. <=) )
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:04:40 PM
Ugh, i've been trying to do this inside the room where you get space jump boots (getting out using tbj instead of space jump)

I think it may be impossible to use tbj to land on a sloped surface, because i'm getting good height, but just not enough to avoid the slope on the edge of the rock. I know this is pointless but, it'll prove that some space-jumpable obstacles can be surpassed with tbj.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:06:30 PM
NM, i just got out ^_^
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:08:25 PM
i've gotten out of that room with a double bomb jump before. metroid always makes you use an ability you got right away to get out of the place, but the entrance didn't look so high up that you had to use a space jump to get there, so i tried a double bomb jump.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:09:31 PM
Lol, i was probably doing it from the wrong side of the rock then =p
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:22:06 PM
Just got the wave beam, going to go test out the ice beam shortly ^_^
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:36:14 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:36:54 PM
Actually, i'm sure of it, just did it =p
From: Cyan of Doma | Posted: 1/18/2003 8:44:46 PM
Yep it works. I tried it once before, but gave up to early. Kool doods very kool.
---
Currently playing: Final Fantasy Legend 2, Final Fantasy VI, Blades of steel, Ninja Gaiden 2, Quake 2(PC), Mechwarrior, Zelda:OoS&OoA
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:01:38 PM
now i got it. =]

i got it once, then i fell down thanks to those stupid blocks in the next room, then i got it again about 15 tries later and made it to hall of the elders.

gonna mess around with thardus soon.

i remember talking to amasawa about this once, if it was possible, but i wouldn't have thought it actually was. but it is thanks to that great tbj method; i really doubt it can be done with the others, the bombs just aren't spread out enough to give you enough height.
From: Cyan of Doma | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:09:51 PM
I suggest someone to submit it to the codes and secrets setcion of gamefaqs. It needs to be there.
---
Currently playing: Final Fantasy Legend 2, Final Fantasy VI, Blades of steel, Ninja Gaiden 2, Quake 2(PC), Mechwarrior, Zelda:OoS&OoA
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:12:15 PM
lmao, that spider ball track in hall of the elders tried to stop me, but i just space jumped on the tip of that round ornament thing near it and landed on it, then space jumped to the platform at the end of the track.

i'll give it a 10 for effort though.
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:17:22 PM
alright i got the ice beam, going to thardus. nothing stops you from getting it, so you can say it's been confirmed. for a split second i was worried about that spider ball track in hall of the elders, but i found a way around it that i mentioned in the other post.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:36:28 PM
nice work kip! so another way to "break" the game is official... and I just managed to make my way into the temple in Phendrana without the space jump, too, albeit using a slightly different route than the floating platform (was able to tbj up near the left corner of the ground that the temple sits on to reach it) I'd rather do what you're doing now though; it sounds like more fun. :-) I'll keep at trying to climb the temple for a little while longer without the space jump though as a nod to devilbit's suggestion and then follow your lead when I get frustrated.

Take some pics if you can get 'em. :-)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 9:54:13 PM
argh, i think i encountered that glitch videogaming was talking about. none of the pirates broke the glass in the first metroid room. so i had to settle for going in the front way. i'll try it again in a bit; i didn't save after getting the ice beam of course.

the ice beam bounces off thardus but it kills those rocks in 1 uncharged shot, as opposed to 2 wave beam shots. how cute. =P

what's odd is that the overworld music changed when i exited chozo ruins (via the elevator near hall of the elders). i know for sure that it changes after beating thardus, so it's strange that it changed even though he was alive.
From: DoubleT | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:00:18 PM
gah! it's impossible! i can't get the bombs high enough to catch onto the "lip"... just a lliiiitttlleee bit more! argh....

*gets discouraged*
---
"I think my wang talks more than I do. In fact, this comment itself is probably wang-inspired." ~ Dragoon of Infinity in the LUE board
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:15:43 PM
make sure you're pushing against the track when you're about to finish the jump (i just do it the whole time though). it may be necessary to get in; regardless, it definitely doesn't hurt.

one time i got up but started to fall off, so i pushed against the wall and tried to fit myself into the hole and i made it.
From: DoubleT | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:41:02 PM
i've been pushin... oh well, i;ll come back tomorrow and try maybe... g'night, and ya did a good job banks, i congratulate u on this great(but tedious) finding
---
"I think my wang talks more than I do. In fact, this comment itself is probably wang-inspired." ~ Dragoon of Infinity in the LUE board
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 10:45:39 PM
banks, how's it going for you? i hope that glitch didn't happen to you too; just to be safe, it would probably be a good idea to never use the ice beam in phendrana until you get to the ice beam door in the thermal visor room. i used it a lot, so... i'm going to do it again and never use it, hopefully the glitch won't happen again or else i don't know how we'll get the gravity suit and go in the back way to thardus.

using the ice beam before the pirate breaks the glass might make the game go screwy or something.
From: Parapsyche | Posted: 1/18/2003 11:25:07 PM
Hmmm...you know what would be extremely difficult without the space jump?

The large room in the Impact Crater that has the Fission Metroids. The annoyance of the metroids, along with using the triple bomb jump PERFECTLY, would be absolutely insane.
From: kip | Posted: 1/18/2003 11:29:41 PM
hmm... yeah that one would be pretty crazy. and people think going through it normally is bad. =P
From: Shifen | Posted: 1/18/2003 11:39:35 PM
Arg, I can't do it! The 5th bomb placement! I don't know how but I fall down too fast for it to catch me! Arg, I can't figure out where to put the 5th bomb!
---
I cannot stress this fact enough! My name is SPELT: Shifen It's PRONOUCED with a LONG I Like Shy.
I hoped you learned something.
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:46:38 AM
um okay... not sure what the hell just happened.

i was in research lab hydra or whatever that room is, i saw the cutscene, nothing was happening, i was getting worried then the metroid busted out of the tube and i killed it. then a pirate did a jump kick through the glass and i progressed.

so anyway, i've got thermal visor and ice beam and i'm in frozen pike. i'm gonna go get the gravity suit then enter thardus' room through the back way. looks like the situation i encountered earlier was nothing to worry about.

an odd note about tallon overworld music: this time when i got the ice beam, i went back to main plaza and took the exit there instead of the one by the ice beam. when i got back to the overworld the first theme played, instead of the second like last time, when i exited near the ice beam. (shrug)
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:57:08 AM
WOW~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!~~~~~~~

Nice guys. I can't wait to try this out. Wish me luck tomorrow...

If we can pull off a 27%/26% game...ooh boy...

Anyway, can this discovery possibly save any time on speed runs?

Lastly, how many ways to "break" the game have we found?

-no thermal
-this topic tbj
-my glitch- see my topic
-Anything else?
---
READ DARKELEMENT'S SIGNATURE!!!
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:59:28 AM
Hmm, if I could nail this one down enough, I might be able to go back and edit the speed guide that I have up now (that merely eliminates some backtracking. If a trick like this could cut off some major time, that'd be perfect.) One question: What's the bit about the Gravity Suit? Or did I miss it on an earlier page?
From: EthyleneOxide | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:15:24 AM
Wait do you think the game could be beaten w/o space jump then?
---
AKA: Feuerstrom
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:29:34 AM
Most likely not - you need it to get through parts of Phazon Mines I think, and the Impact Crater would be hellish without it. Imagine trying to Bomb Jump from platform to platform while being seiged by Fission Metroids.

EDIT - never mind, I found the Gravity Suit part...I'm up to laying 5 bombs successively...need to work on the 6th one's timing....
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:35:36 AM
well that was interesting. a few random things i noticed:

1. your graphic in morph ball form is that of the varia suit. this corrects itself once you pick up the spider ball, but until then it's pretty funny that you go from gravity suit look to varia suit when going in and out of morph ball form.

2. when you go into thardus' room the back way, the game must not have expected you to since the fight doesn't happen until you go near the real entrance. this lets you do such exciting things as walking into thardus' lifeless body and taking damage, and scanning him before the battle (if that wasn't already possible).

but anyway yeah, i just beat him by going the back way with ice beam + gravity suit. this is official now, there's no monkey wrench to worry about. i hope to make a video of getting up that track with a tbj if i ever get my stuff.

all you folks who consider this guy the toughest boss on hard, maybe you should get the gravity suit to lessen the damage you take, and the energy tank in hall of the elders before fighting him. =]
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:41:26 AM
hmm not to mention you could get both crashed frigate energy tanks before fighting thardus then... you could have like what, 8 or 9 tanks and the gravity suit before fighting him?
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:51:37 AM
"Lastly, how many ways to "break" the game have we found?

-no thermal
-this topic tbj
-my glitch- see my topic
-Anything else?"

that seems to be it... wave beam before space jump isn't official yet, since amasawa found a weird and seemingly problematic thing about it.

space jump before flaahgra (using tbj at the landing site) is another thing i've been curious about, but i guess it wouldn't be as funny as ice beam + gravity suit before thardus is.

i'm also gonna start a new game on normal and try to get through magmoor without the varia suit, highly doubt it can be done though. but the fact that the ice beam simply bounces off thardus got me curious. i wanna try using the wave/ice/plasma beam against flaahgra. perhaps "kill flaahgra last" is possible in a way.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:53:50 AM
Hmm, Kip...if I were to perfect this move, would you perhaps mind if it was added as a time-saving trick to the Speed Guide currently up? (It's in the process of a major update anyhow).
I got the sixth bomb jump down, but I want to practice it until I can see if it can be done repeatedly, making it a viable trick that can be executed with regularity.
If that's cool with you, who else worked it out with you again?
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:58:16 AM
Can you go into Magmoor without the Varia suit and not take damage? I know you can get there via the Sun Tower elevator (near the Vault and Hive Totem), but I just assumed it would involve rapid energy depletion.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:01:08 AM
Well, i couldn't post any further when i was actually able to get to the hall of elders due to posting limits (damn new user access)

Just before i left, i thought the same thing as kip. That extra spider ball track scared the crap out of me, thinking this was a whole waste of time. But then i did the same thing; I jumped onto that nub and on to the platform to activate the node, then proceeded to get the ice beam ^_^

I had to save and leave though, went out tonight with some friends. Tonight i'd like to see how far i can actually go without using the spider ball. Any problems you can see in the future? (thinking about the technical bomb jumps needed to try to get to the power bombs and plasma beam >_<)

Need to catch up to kip and get the gravity suit now =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:12:27 AM
of course i wouldn't mind. =P

as for other people, banks is the one who developed a tbj method that actually works (not just doing what i used to do and jamming on the A button to get 3 bombs barely above each other once the stock refills). so without that, i bet you couldn't get up there. he also IIRC took the initiative and tested it out on that spider ball track.

a lot of other people could also be thanked like amasawa, zell, cubefreak, etc etc, too many people, pretty much anyone who just took part in any of the discussions

all i did was bring it up and test a bit to look for possible road blocks. i noticed that track isn't that high off the ground compared to others, so when i first heard that triple bomb jumping was possible, i thought maybe you could get up there somehow, and take the back way to thardus, skipping the super missile and charge beam (but when i played the game again i found out you need super missiles to get back to the sunchamber, where there's that one artifact).
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:17:33 AM
I'll be sure to add that info then. As it is, the route I used lays the final time down around 4:20-4:27, but I figure if enough goodies like this are found, it can be sharply brought down.
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:20:30 AM
"Tonight i'd like to see how far i can actually go without using the spider ball. Any problems you can see in the future?"

in phazon mines once you drop down those two rooms with LONG spider ball tracks, you aren't going back up unless you have it or you exit to magmoor.

there's also the ore processing room to worry about... maybe there's some way to get past it though, i don't know. but even if you did, once you got power bomb you'd need to get out somehow. there's that exit to magmoor in phazon processing center, but i don't know if you can get to the top of the room without the spider ball. it could be possible though.

also, there's the "olympics" track before the plasma beam. i've tried to get to the door by space jumping to it from the start of the track, i can get really close but i can't quite do it.

if you can get the plasma beam without the spider ball, and make your way to level 3 of the mines, i bet the spider ball wouldn't be needed then. there's one track right before omega pirate, but i doubt you have to use it, i bet you could just go into the pit of phazon and tbj up onto the other side.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:28:41 AM
I'll try to overcome each obstacle as i come across it i guess, i'm going to go the normal route through the research area, get the thermal goggles, then keep on going to the gravity suit. Should be smooth sailing through the crashed frigate. I don't expect any problems until i get to that phazon mining room that has the spider ball track puzzle. (hopefully you can tbj up the platforms without messing with the track at all =p
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:29:30 AM
Tomorrow when I have some free time, I'll try and isolate some more items and see if there aren't more ways to break the linear drive of the game like with this Ice Beam trick.

I actually just got the Ice Beam using it, so now I'm headed on my way to Thardus (happened to have a save file right before him, actually...)
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:37:13 AM
i think jumping on that thing in hall of the elders might not be necessary to get to the ice beam room, but it's definitely easier than this other way, which is theory right now but involves a tbj to get to where the statue puts you when you take the wave beam path.

near the ceiling where the safety window is, there's a long slit that goes across the whole side. there's these stick things covering most of it, but at one part there's nothing. when you take the wave beam path up there, i tried rolling out of the blank part, and you end up falling out, so i guess if you can roll out, you can tbj into there.

so if it wasn't for that wave beam door before hall of the elders, maybe it would've been possible to have the ice beam before wave beam (and before flaahgra).
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:52:49 AM
About the Pirate not breaking the glass hold up. I think you HAVE to go in the front way, because the dramatic *omg there's a metroid* cut scene must play out, and i think you're supposed to scan it before it breaks out, and then kill it for the pirate to jump through. Not sure 100%, but that's just how i did it.
From: x6xboxer6x | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:54:32 AM
damn it, I've been going at it for about 15 minutes and I just cant get that 5 bomb. I managed to get up once, but then i was so excited I forgot that those platforms disappear. ARGGG!
---
Money can't buy love; but it can rent a very close imitation.
AC Town:Boston AC Name:Veloth
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:13:33 AM
Well, i dropped into the spider ball track puzzle room and got stuck =p There is no way to continue beyond this point.

The only thing i can think of, is that other entrance into that room ( not the grapple beam door, and not the door out, but that 3rd door)

Does anyone know how to get through the other side of that and into this room?

If you can't get any farther than this, i'd recommend just getting the gravity suit, the energy tanks from the frigate, and then taking on thardus.
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:16:11 AM
so... anyone try space jump before flaahgra? i'm not having much success with it.

running through magmoor without the varia didn't go well either. there's 5 rooms straight you have to go through that aren't cool, and the energy drains way too fast (this is on normal too). i can almost get to the 3rd room which is shore tunnel, but all the paths in fiery shores that don't involve jumping in the lava and taking even more damage take too long.

i tried to get that energy tank in the main plaza with a tbj but i can't get high enough, and that crumbled pillar always makes you fall off if you do it from there. with only 2 energy tanks it doesn't look good, even with 4 you could barely make it if it was possible.

if shore tunnel was a cool room it would probably be possible, since you could just get to it, open the door to the next room or fiery shores and shoot the boxes for health, pull it in, leave room, repeat till full.
From: arisen devil | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:44:58 AM
could u post this under codes and secrets??
---
i am a knight who says ni;ni ni ni ni
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 9:50:40 AM
Hmm...Gonna try this in a bit, but it may be a while b4 I make progress, my siblings play this game too <_>

Banks- The glass breaking always works if you try to get the thermal when you're supposed to. It doesn't if you get it thru the Ice Beam Door (bottom of the Research Core).

tlj- Read the Metroid Prime High Scores topic, you might find some speed savers. Waiting to get the thermal til later really helps. People have gotten 2:48 on normal with %s in the 40s.
---
READ DARKELEMENT'S SIGNATURE!!!
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:19:33 AM
Way to go, guys. With the triple bomb jump technique down solid and getting the ice beam before the spider ball, I realized that you found just the trick that's needed to drop this to a 26% game, I think.

There's no longer any need for the super missile, since you can reach Thardus the back way by going through the ice beam door at the end of the research lab. Therefore, the charge beam is no longer a mandatory requirement, either.

I don't think I'm overlooking any need for either of these items, so I'm going to confirm this by trying a 26% game on Normal. I don't even wanna think about trying it in Hard mode; fighting Omega with no charge beam is going to be hard enough as it is.

Keep up the good work and, before you know it, the morph ball will no longer be a required pickup. ;)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: TheEvilCubivore | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:28:29 AM
No super missile...

hmmmm

I think in the crashed pirate frigate...
---
Speed>Power
From: Andromon59 | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:52:45 AM
Whoa, really cool guys, good job.
---
RPGer? Go here: http://quiz.raven black.net/blood.pl?biter=Andromon58 and kevan.org/brain.cgi?andromon58
From: Arathorn21st | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:00:53 PM
Off-topic, but for 28%, do you skip X-Ray Visor or Thermal Visor?
BTW, excellent work here. Although making a 26% game is letting a criminal loose from prison; I can't imagine MP on hard w/ just normal shots...ugh.
---
Pokemon Stuff in Quote---AC: Name Ulysses, Town Athens
<Member of Peach's Castle Turnip Tossers>
From: Arek The Absolute | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:18:17 PM
I actually believe going through Magmoor with no Varia is possible. But it involves backtracking instead of going in through Chozo Ruins go through Tallon Overworld therefore you have 4 rooms to make it through. (or is it 5)
Anyhow I'm believeing with all the enrgytanks up to the point and if you're a master of DBJ you can refill your energy by getting the energy Tank in Magmoor Transport Tunnel A. Fighting Flaahgra Last i'm not sure if that's possible. But it would be fun to try. I'm gonna attempt going through Magmoor to Phendrana without Varia in my next play through.
From: Diffusion | Posted: 1/19/2003 12:30:10 PM
Skipping Thermal Visor. For some odd reason, shots on the Omega Pirate don't seem to register w/o the X-Ray Visor.

---
She dates losers. I mean, what kind of guy gets it for "attempted" rape? - doomsdays
From: Mr Easy | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:25:59 PM
(hopefully you can tbj up the platforms without messing with the track at all)

In the puzzle room... if you can stack your tbj to get up there... that would enable you to get the grapple without getting the powerbomb. But.. yeah.
---
I am Gelatin Snake. Triforce of Laziness
Good, Bad, I'm the Guy with the gun.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 1:57:06 PM
Nope. Super Missile is required to activate the ruins in the Chozo room just b4 the sunchamber. That would make the Charge Beam and Spider Ball mandatory too <_>

I only gave it five minutes or so, but I CANNOT get the fifth bomb to propel me up, no matter how early I lay it. It always explodes just a bit too late...Any tips?
---
READ DARKELEMENT'S SIGNATURE!!!
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:39:00 PM
yeah, you'd have to use level 4398763948769834768 bomb jumping to get up to the sunchamber without using that spider ball track. that's the only other place where super missiles are needed. lava lake + control tower artifact can be gotten with regular missiles.
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 2:48:13 PM
the tallon overworld entrance to magmoor is the one you have to use since the other one is through flaahgra, who would give you the varia suit.

it's 5 hot rooms straight, the one with the energy tank is last but you'd be better off skipping it and saving at phendrana, then going back in to grab it and leaving for phendrana again. if it was possible to get to phendrana once, you could go to and from phendrana easily since you'd only be getting more energy tanks from that point. you could get the wave/ice beam before flaahgra, but i don't know about plasma beam since it requires a pretty extended stay in magmoor.

but the problem is AFAIK you can only have 2 tanks before flaahgra, that doesn't seem to be enough to get past the 3rd room (if you can get there even, i keep getting close). i can't seem to get the main plaza tank with a tbj either.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:07:36 PM
Kip you newbie ;)

Go through the room where you fought hive mecha for the missiles, and into the room behind it. Roll through the hole and that takes you Straight to where the elevator to magmoor is. Take a right and you're in the vault room with the bomb jump puzzle. Continue past that, and you get your third energy tank =p

Oh, and i was trying to bomb jump up to the vine walkway in the section of the talon overworld with the boost ball half-pipe, but, i can't seem to get enough height. Plus the ledge i'm doing it on is a little sloped, making things a little more difficult.
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:15:32 PM
hmm so is it possible to have anymore than that? i think with 4 tanks the chance it could be done climbs to 1%. but having space jump somehow would sure help since you could jump across the lava faster and take less damage.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:48:12 PM
The 4th energy tank you can get is in magmoor =\

But i still think there may be a chance to get space jump without the boostball. I've been trying all sorts of things in the talon overworld boost ball room. Like, jump off a ledge, morph into ball, and try and get some speed that way. I even tried rolling to a side, laying a bomb before i hit the peak, and rolling back down into the bomb, but still holding the opposite direction. Almost impossible to do with regularity, but it does increase your height on the ramp.

But using tbj in various places might be the key to getting spacejump. I can't think of a better position than on the topmost ledge closest to the vine bridge.

But anyways, the furthest i get on my magmoor attempts is the second set of flamethrowers. i'm not sure how you could get any further without space jump or an energy tank. I was hoping that maybe once you reached the room where you get icespreader, that you wouldn't take damage but, i've yet to make it there to find out =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:50:50 PM
i almost made it to monitor station or whatever that room is after shore tunnel, but then the energy just does not last.

the magmoor entrance from chozo ruins isn't any better, it seems like you lose energy more rapidly the further you go, and i can't even get past the second room that way. the only way this would happen is using the overworld elevator (and that's the one without a save point next to it =[).
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 3:54:54 PM
nope, shore tunnel isn't a cool room. the next cool room is the elevator to phendrana.

if shore tunnel was a cool room it'd probably be easy, you can just open the door to the next room and shoot those boxes, then pull in the health, and keep farming health until you have enough to get through.

to get past the second set of flamethrowers jump while hugging the wall, they shouldn't hit you then. or if they do it shouldn't be enough to drag you down into the lava.

and of course quickly destroy all the boxes in that room to get health (there's like 5 or 6 in all).
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:10:00 PM
Hmmm, even if you were able to get spacejump, how much damage would you save by not touching the lava? It would have to be enough to get through the whole monitor station, and that includes the ball puzzle room *shrug*

I'm not sure if it'll be possible at this point.

But my question from last night: Can any figure out how to get into that 3rd room from the spider track puzzle chamber?
I think it may lead to the hydro water room and backoutside to the entrance that you get to with the grapple beam, but i'm not sure.
From: Icesorcofdeath | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:14:50 PM
isnt spider required to enter metroid primes lair?
---
Currently Playing: Diablo 2LOD, Unreal Tournament 2003, Metroid Fusion, Metroid Prime
Waiting for: Skies of Arcadia, ShadowBane. Star Wars Galaxies
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:30:32 PM
no, you can just space jump through the phazon to the end, taking like 5 damage which you can easily make up for since prime gives ultra energy when you destroy his orbs. great thing to do, especially in speed runs.

yeah banks, i don't know about this thing. if everything goes right and i don't get pushed down into the lava by the flamethrowers, i can get a little over halfway through shore tunnel, then the energy runs out. and i'm using common sense and opening the first room's door from far away, then morphing into ball form before i go through (so i don't waste time switching in the lava).

but even then by the time i enter the second room i'm already close to losing the first tank. the second room takes everything else away since it's so long (if the crates gave ultra energy instead of small i could do it).
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:32:39 PM
yeah, the doors in ore processing are like this: one goes back to elite research, one goes into the grapple beam room, one goes to level 2 of the mines, one goes to that 2D water room then back to main quarry.
From: zell99 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:46:01 PM
As far as I can think, the Varia Suit will be needed in a low % game. (You can't get through Magmoor with only 1 tank).

The grapple beam seams required to get the Plasma beam, unless someone finds a way to get it using tbj. (Is there anywhere else where the grapple beam would be absolutely required? The Metroid Quarantines caves maybe?)

The spider ball is needed in the Ore Processing room, according to Banks, and I don't think you can go any other way.

The charge beam is required to break the cordite panels blocking the 2 runic symbols in the Sun Tower.

The super jumps. Well. I think in the Phazon Mines (Metroid Quarantines mushrooms) you'd absolutly need the super jumps. (I don't know for sure though). Maybe tbj could do the work? Dunno... =//

I Just tried to make a little resumé of what's been said up to now. On my part, I haven't gotten the tbj to work well yet (didn't have much time to play). I'll work on it later.

Good luck to all of you who are trying to do these crazy things =))
---
BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:50:19 PM
even playing on normal with 3 tanks i can't get through without the varia. if i had 2 more tanks even, you could barely do it if it was possible (with 3 more it'd be easy i think).

besides, even if you could, you would have to kill flaahgra eventually since that one artifact won't show up in his room until he's dead. so at best, the varia could only be put off, not skipped.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 4:56:13 PM
Well, with that settled, i'll try to confirm wave > space jump
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:13:27 PM
One thing i was thinking about. Are you able to freeze the Barbed Wasps in the sun tower? If not on normal, then on hard maybe? If you could, perhaps you could jump off of their frozen body, double jump up above the spider track obstruction, and do a mid-air morph ball switch and try to attach yourself to the track that way. Thus avoiding Charged shot / Super missile
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:27:28 PM
haha, that's very clever, but i don't know if it'd work even if the wasps can survive 1 ice beam shot. you know that room after central dynamo with all the metroids and the force field. first time through the game i didn't know there were invisible platforms for a while, so i tried to freeze a metroid and jump on him to get to the other side. but you just slide off when you do it and the game doesn't let you jump. not sure if it'd be the same for the wasps though.

i messed around in ore processing for a bit, i don't see how you'd even get to the second floor without the spider ball. a tbj doesn't go high enough, the closest it seems you can get is if you space jump while standing on that thing with the hologram.

anything else to test besides wave beam before space jump and space jump before flaahgra?
From: Divine DG Cannon 3 | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:32:13 PM
Great job, Banks;)
---
-Divine DG Cannon #34646
Dressing like an ugly slut is synonymous with "sexiness" these days, didn't you guys know that? >_> - Oooska
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 5:41:59 PM
just for fun i decided to give myself a free ride up to 2nd floor of ore processing by going up the blue spider ball track.

from the 2nd floor i was able to space jump straight up to the 3rd floor by jumping on the top of the blue track. trying to see if i can go from the 3rd floor to the grapple beam room/hydro tunnel.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 6:58:43 PM
I'm not able to tbj up to the chozo ice temple. i can double jump to the ice area left of the temple, but once again, cannot attain the required height to reach higher ground. I can't access it by tbj by the platform either.

Did you get any farther in the spider track puzzle room kip?
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 7:11:40 PM
did you read the wave before space jump topic? amasawa posted some stuff about how he got up there.

i can almost get to the top floor, i know you can land on the top side of the tracks because i went to the top floor via the yellow track then jumped down. but it's tough... for some reason i'm not landing on them when i jump from the same floor. i've been trying to find other places to jump from.
From: Hairy Tongue | Posted: 1/19/2003 7:43:31 PM
*sniff*

This reminds me of that wave beam before grappling beam trick in SM...oh, the nostalgia...
---
i like cheese
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 7:55:14 PM
I read his post, and apparently, he mid-air morphed at the height of his triple jump to reach the ledge. this new tbjm may lead to Space jump before Flaahgra. Try using it to get to the vine platform in the talon overworld, by the boost ramp =o
From: zell99 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:05:21 PM
Banks- I tried to get on the vine bridge, but I can't tbj high enough yet (need just a little more to get in the furnace)... so you, awasama or kip go try it out =P
---
BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:06:33 PM
With a sloppy tbjm, i was able to get chest level with the platform, perhaps with a perfectly timed tbjm, i can get on it!
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:12:11 PM
man, i keep trying to jump up to the top level in ore processing. i keep going over the top side of those tracks but she won't go on them for some reason. and i know you can land on them. i don't get this.

you can jump from 2nd to 3rd floor but i'm still trying to get from 3rd to top. if that was possible, and you could get from 1st to 2nd somehow, then you could get grapple beam before spider ball.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:15:05 PM
Well, i'd like to know exactly when Amasawa morphed out of the triple jump, because the ledge below the Chozo Ice Temple is pretty high up, about equivalent to the vine bridge. Like, ascending upon the 6th bomb's blast? just before the peak? just after the peak?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:18:20 PM
And i don't think the small gap between the ledge and the platform is helping either =p
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:34:25 PM
Hmm...well I finally cracked down and spent 15 minutes on the tbj. I can do a 2.5 or so, very inconsistently. Problem is, Bomb #5 almost never propels me, even when I do it way low. BTW I use Bank's method at the first post, not the jam on the buttons method.

kip, you made it to the furnace right? Did you use your jam the A button method?

I plan to get ice beam/suit b4 thardus after I perfect my tbj.
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:36:41 PM
Ah, this reminds me of when I tried to get all the parts in Pikmin without Blue pikmin. Damn, I got so far...

---
<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:41:26 PM
"Did you use your jam the A button method?"

nope, i doubt it'd work. i used banks' method. bomb 5 and 6 is hard to do but it gets a lot more height which is important.

well this ore processing stuff is going nowhere so i guess i'll go back to space jump before flaahgra for a bit.

do you guys think ice beam + gravity suit before thardus would be worth it in a speed run, assuming you could get it down? i'm not sure what to do in my 28% speed runs anymore, it's getting complicated with all these possibilities like space jump before flaahgra.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 8:57:46 PM
I swear i'll get this jump if it kills me. I better re-start my wavebeam/spacejump game over. Because i'm not doing this jump again, lol.

I think if i had the perfect tbj, and the perfectly timed morph, i could just BARELY catch the ledge. The distance is a killer. You have to be Holding forward just as you hit bomb #6 and morph out at the same time.
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 9:40:57 PM
um... when you guys are trying to get on the vine bridge, which ledge are you doing it from? the one with the geemer or the lower one?

if i tbj from the ledge with the geemer i can almost get above the bridge, but the problem is the ledge is a bit away from the bridge, so if i try to move forward to go onto it i'd just fall down. the other ledge is closer to the bridge but it's lower, so it doesn't seem like you can get high enough on that one.

and i try to tbj in the landing site that doesn't really get anywhere. the surface is screwed up in most places.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 9:42:58 PM
The ledge with the geemer. I know you can almost get enough height, that's why i wanted to try morphing out at the peak of the jump, because Amasawa had success with the chozo ice temple jump using that method.
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:19:47 PM
can't seem to get up. part of the bridge is in my way when i morph out, unless there's some trick to get a lot more height when you morph out.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:31:00 PM
Hey Kip, I was attempting this move again; my only question is what how you're supposed to get to the Reflecting Pool (where the Ice Beam is) from the Hall of Elders. Is there some obscene way of Bomb jumping up to that Morph Ball slot or what?
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:35:20 PM
the morph ball slot at the end of the spider ball track in hall of elders?

just space jump on the tip of that round ornament thing on the wall near it (there's a little square sticking out), then space jump again to the ledge at the end of the track. i think there might be another way to get to the ice beam, but that one's a lot easier.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:40:55 PM
Well, i think you can't reach that ledge using tbj.
The reason it may work on the chozo ice temple ledge is because you don't have a gap to cross. I think maybe when the ball is touching edge and you morph out, it automatically pulls you up onto it. But with the gap, you just morph out, it the edge and fall off. I haven't been able to do it. =\
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:48:02 PM
OK, I figured it had to do with the little ledges sticking out, but I didn't try it much in depth.

As near as I can figure so far, you basically get locked inside the Research Labs if you try to go in the back route (through Frozen Pike) because as banks said, the glass won't break until the Metroid is killed. If Metroid is still alive, then no Pirate will shatter the glass.

Unless someone figures out one hell of a huge Bomb Climb move, the Spider Ball will be required at some point (Ore Processing comes to mind).

This trick would be in the bag if the tbj wasn't so tough to do.

One more thing: from the Sun Tower Access chamber, you can go into Magmoor Caverns without the Varia Suit, but even speeding through as fast as I could, I only made it to Monitor Station (the heat + Defense Turrets are what killed me finally).
From: kip | Posted: 1/19/2003 10:55:46 PM
yeah, i don't think the spider ball can be skipped. in ore processing you can space jump from the second floor to the third, but i don't know if you can get high enough to go from the third to top floor. and i don't know about first to second either.

and then you would have to be able to get to the top of phazon processing center without it (so you can leave to magmoor after you're done with whatever). and then there's the plasma beam, unless it's possible to space jump to the door there from the start of the track.

i can't get through magmoor without the varia either. i almost got to monitor station but the 3 tanks just don't last. and after monitor station there's still 1 more hot room before the elevator to phendrana.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:02:37 PM
Indeed. I also attempted exiting the Phazon Processing Center (where you normally have to wind around the Spider Ball track to reach the top of the room) and it can't be done, even with a successful Space Jump to the ledge where you find the Missile Expansion; you get stuck with nowhere to go after a while :P

If someone can find a way to make it through the Fungal Halls and Metroid Quarantines w/o the Grappling Beam, that could save a bit of time, though you wouldn't be able to get all the items or complete the Log Book.
From: majin nick | Posted: 1/19/2003 11:36:16 PM
Do you guys need help finding energy tanks because I got a list of where there are some in Chozo Ruins and Tallon Overworld.

---
"Bold mother****** dont you limit your mind, all the hate in your heart will leave you being blind."- Disturbed
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:41:12 AM
You guys are great. I am not even going to attempt. I just had a thought that I believe has not been said in any previous posts for the Ore Processing room. Is it possible to use the triple bomb jump within the caged spider track area (where you would normally latch onto)? Also, in the area where you come out onto a new floor, there is a blue shield like thing. Can this be used as stairs for the next floor? I cannot try these things out myself because I had way too much trouble even doing the double bomb jump for that energy tank.
---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 1:05:17 AM
I'm working on a web page right now, so hopefully i'll have pics up soon. Anyone know of the components required to transfer tv images to your computer? Like through a USB port?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 1:09:43 AM
It's not the fact that you can't bomb jump into the cages in ore processing. It's the fact that even if you could get to the top of the track, you'd fall out as soon as you tried to exit it, because each exit is a horizontal section of spider ball track, and you can't latch onto it.

And the blue thing at the bottom is phazon, which damages you, and you can't stand on it at all, i tried =\
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/20/2003 11:49:05 AM
I thought of that this morning. Could you use the ball boost to propel yourself out?
---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:40:31 PM
Probably not.

TO BANKS / KIP: I was just wondering, [A] if you saw my topics about TBJ, and [B] if you were inspired/got help from those topics. I don't want partial credit or anything, I just wanna know.
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:46:50 PM
yeah Banks, that's correct; I morphed out of the tbj. I'm not sure exactly what the timing is, to be honest. I would guess that I pushed the button just before the peak of the triple bomb jump. The timing doesn't seem to need to be too precise, but you do have to be pushing forward when you push the button. The important thing is that when it's done correctly, off a triple or double bomb jump, Samus runs forward in midair.

When I successfully reached the ledge, I kind of hung there in midair for a few seconds in that sort of way that tells you if you move much, you're going to fall. I got really technical at that point and decided that jamming on the B button in the hopes that jumping to more level ground nearby would do the trick was the best tactic before she lost her footing. It worked. <:-)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/20/2003 12:52:19 PM
and yeah, with a gap in between it seems to me like it's extremelyu difficult, if it's possible at all. That's why I chose to try jumping to the temple cliff from the left side on the platform below, because there's a corner that you can push up against while you're trying the tbj. The ground's not even, so it's harder than the spider ball track in the furnace, but it seems like pushing against the ice slows Samus's fall a bit because the wall isn't perfectly vertical, so I could space out my bombs a little better. It was a pain because of the inconsistency, though.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 4:28:19 PM
CUBEfreaK: I think kip mentioned your original thread about the triple bomb jump. I derived the timing of the sequence of the bombs myself, but i would give you credit for the method of manipulating the bomb refill counter. The tbj wouldn't be possible without knowing how to use 6 bombs in sequence =D

I'm not sure if is possible to reach that vine ledge for space jump early, but i don't think it really matters much. You have to get it later anyways.

What i'd like to know now is, if it is possible to Bomb jump from the spider ball track across the obstacle in the Sun Tower. If i could do this, then a 26% game would be possible.(the charge beam and super missile wouldn't be needed)
From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:03:18 PM
yeah, i told tlj he should thank cubefreak since he helped keep the triple bomb jump stuff alive, took part in discussions, etc.

i always thought getting up that spider ball track might be possible since it's not that high off the ground, but it didn't seem possible to get enough height with a double bomb jump. i first saw akiraz talking about triple bomb jumps around the time people found out the thermal visor isn't needed. after that more people slowly started talking about and the methods kept getting more refined until we made it up there. =]

according to devilbit space jump before flaahgra may be possible by dbj/tbj'ing off the rock near your ship and morphing in midair to catch the ledge nearest the rock... did you check that thread out, banks? =P

and yeah 26% would be possible if you could get to the sunchamber somehow... not sure how that would happen though, i need to take a look at that track again. but the problem is those damn oculuses would be trying to knock you off all the time, and you can't kill them directly.
From: Cyan of Doma | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:10:27 PM
I still dont see this under the codes and secrets for this game! Someone post it! Ill post it myself and give kip, banks, and cubefreak credits.
---
Currently playing: Final Fantasy Legend 2, Final Fantasy VI, Blades of steel, Ninja Gaiden 2, Quake 2(PC), Mechwarrior, Zelda:OoS&OoA
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:25:53 PM
Kip: what i meant was, kill thardus and get the spider ball. Then kill the barbed wasps in the room so you don't get hit at all. Roll to the very top of the spider ball track, just under that blockage. Then set up a double / triple bomb jump mid-air off the uppermost tip of the track and see if you can get enough height to reach the other side. I don't currently have a save that has Spider ball AND that blockage still there, so i'm working on that atm.
From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:49:59 PM
hmm, that doesn't sound too bad actually. depends how high the blockage goes though... i forget.

charge beam would be depressing to play without but oh well. i don't think ice beam/missile would work on ice troopers anymore since i don't think they can be frozen with uncharged shots (metroids can be).

not to mention no more perpetual stunning of wave troopers with charged wave shots... phazon mines could be a challenge in hard 26%. =]
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 5:57:39 PM
26% Hard w/o Charged shots sounds borderline impossible.
The jump doesn't look to bad when i last ran into the room. Maybe even achievable with a double bomb jump.
But the fact that it's in midair may be it's downfall. I don't think you can catch bomb 3 after laying bomb 2 (double bomb jump) in midair, so you have have to hold R the whole time you're performing it.

If it works, good luck on Omega Pirate LOL
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:02:24 PM
Oh and another thing. is there anything bad about being moderated for a post? I linked the old zelda commercial about 2 weeks ago in the SNES zelda forum, and just got modded for it this morning. It was moved to the zelda social board. Does this affect my karma at all? Seems kind of a lame reason to get Moderated Messages: 1 in my profile -_-
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:11:48 PM
I regards to the Ice Troopers question, I seem to recall at least once freezing them with a series of uncharged shots...you just have to keep pelting the same ice trooper quickly and I think it does happen after a few shots.

Now without charge beam though, Waves troopers truly would become the worst of all Trooper types heh and yeah bosses would be nasty. Here's hoping you can pull it off though.
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:22:37 PM
>As near as I can figure so far, you basically get locked inside the Research Labs if you try to go in the back route (through Frozen Pike) because as banks said, the glass won't break until the Metroid is killed. If Metroid is still alive, then no Pirate will shatter the glass.

I've been thinkin' about that....it still might be possible.

I've noticed that the WaveBuster combo has that "shoot-thru-walls" effect that the Wave Beam had in the older games. It might be possible to kill the metroid using the WaveBuster, which would then trigger the pirate that breaks the glass.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/20/2003 6:34:50 PM
Not sure about skipping that covered area of the spider ball track in the sun tower; perhaps it's possible. I don't remember trying it.

but yeah, I can tell you that fighting without the charge beam on NORMAL is damn nigh impossible. You lose a lot just being unable to stun wave troopers (and even being unable to make the power troopers hesitate when you blast them with a charged shot). I tried it the other day and could only make it as far as the room with the spider ball track pillar before I bit the dust, after many tries... and that was getting lucky and actually having full health plus 5 missiles by the time I got there. I can't even imagine what hard mode without the charge beam would be like. o_O
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:24:57 PM
Triple Bomb BUMP!
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:37:00 PM
If I remember right there's rubble after the Magmoor-Phendrana elevator when you first go to Phendrana, and it's only breakable with charge beam. I remember 'cause I had to go get it. Maybe power-bombs would break it, but who cares? You can't get them because you can't pass that room after the Phendrana elevator.
IF I'm right about that charge beam thing...
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:39:38 PM
regular missiles work on those.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:42:16 PM
I'm on a normal game without charge beam and i've gotten past that. I'm actually stuck on the wave beam sheegoth boss. Since i'm used to having like, 5 energy tanks by the time i'm fighting her, i'm used to playing it sloppy. A little more difficult when i have only 99 energy. Any tips kip?
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:52:05 PM
Sheegoths are easy - just get close until it does its breath attack, dodge it by either backing off or jumping over it, then blast with missiles. Lather, rinse, repeat.
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:54:12 PM
Why is it that whenever i post for help, i always end up doing it the very next attempt anyways. 96 energy left too =p

Soon i'll be able to test out the sun tower.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 7:55:37 PM
Oh and i only had 5 missiles to work with CUBEfreaK ;)

I just used bombs. Rolled by his head, laid 3, then scurried off. Hit and Run is the way to go =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 8:03:05 PM
i just looked at that track again. the blockage doesn't look impossibly high, but i don't know if you can get above it with a double bomb jump. at any rate it seems to be lower in height than the spider ball track to the furnace, but that could just be my imagination/the fact that i looked up at it from the ground.
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/20/2003 8:04:00 PM
Oh, yeah, you're going for 26% . . . I forgot.
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/20/2003 10:06:32 PM
Kip, how much damage does the Gravity Suit protect against as opposed to the varia. Just curious, because i haven't taken on thardus before in a low percent game.
From: kip | Posted: 1/20/2003 10:11:30 PM
i don't know the exact value, but i don't think it's anymore than 25% of an improvement. it's semi noticable though.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 12:22:04 AM
Ok, the v2.7 update is finished, with this trick incorporated as an alternate method. It's placed in the speed run right after the Wave Beam pick-up, and the tbj is detailed (hope I got it right) under the Abilities section. Primary credit given to banks, kip, and CUBEfreaK for all the info, plus everyone else in this thread for keeping the discussion alive.

My initial time runs today showed timestamp variance of +/-6 minutes when executing this trick, which can cut off roughly 35-40 minutes of a 100% run.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 12:50:32 AM
hmm... what about in a 28% run? do you think it would be worthwhile? you'd have to leave phendrana after getting the wave beam to go get the ice beam, then taking extra time to go through the rest of the pirate base instead of leaving after super missile, but then you wouldn't have to leave phendrana, get ice beam, come back for gravity suit, then leave again to go to the frigate...
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 12:59:28 AM
Quite possibly. I for one haven't really attempted this run; my best one laid out 33% - I'm too scared of not using Energy Tanks :{
But this whole trick certainly does cut some time off the clock - time that can be used later on to get stuff, or go for the insanely low time by running for low percentage.

I figure I'll eventually get around to it - I did finally complete Super Metroid with 28%, so it's only a matter of time before I try it with Prime.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:22:22 AM
Well, it all depends if i can get a 26% game to work ;)

I just beat Thardus, a wimp on normal, about the same difficulty w/o the charge beam. I just spammed Power beam the whole time. I started the battle with only 25 energy, and got to 99 just off his rocks, lol. I was on edge, because the last time i had saved was right by the super missile, and i had already gotten the gravity suit by this point.

Anyways, with him out of the way, i backtracked through the magmoor caverns exit and made my way to the tallon overworld, saving at my ship. I'm now off to the sun tower to see if my efforts will bear fruit...

And, is it possible to get the Plasma beam without the grappling hook? I don't remember which part you needed the grappling hook for, but i'll definitely go back to investigate in a bit.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:27:19 AM
If someone can find a way to get to the platforms without the Grapple Beam, you could get the Plasma Beam real early as you leave Phendrana after Thardus (you pass through the Geothermal Core). As it stands right now, you use the Grappling Beam to swing from a ledge to one of the platforms to start raising them.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:36:30 AM
in geothermal core (place going to plasma beam), there's a grapple point you use to get to those platforms so you can boost ball them to reveal the olympics spider ball track.

other than that, the only problematic places i see are the metroid quarantine caves with all the big mushrooms. tbjing could work though, maybe. but i bet the surfaces there are screwed up, so it'd be harder.

there's a grapple point about two rooms away from omega pirate, but i seriously doubt that one has to be used. going into the phazon pit and space jumping to the other side almost gets you up there, so i bet a tbj would work (only thing is you'd only get a few tries to do it in low %, like one or two).

i'll play around a bit with space jump before flaahgra again, using the method devilbit was talking about. too bad i don't know yet what kind of things i need to hook up my video capture card to everything else or i'd be prepared to make a video of it if i was successful.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:41:00 AM
Hmm i see... Well here's the final result of the Sun Tower.

When you destroy the hives / wasps and roll up the spider track, you are unable to gain any height off of bombs. A bomb blast will shoot you off horizontally, because the blockage acts as a wall directly above the track.

Barbed wasps die in one ice shot, and when i tried to make them hit me in an attempt to knock me up above the obstacle, it instead knocked me clean off the track. You can jump on top of destroyed hive nests, but that only brings you to about 3/4 up the spider track that is already available. The only way to get the Sun Chamber artifact without super missiles would be to Collect it directly after beat flaahgra, which means you need to have visited the Hall of Elders once already. Which in turn means you need to have acquired the wave beam, which means you need to get through magmoor caverns before you get the varia suit. This is already impossible with only 4 tanks of energy, and even if you COULD do it with these energy tanks, it nullifies the 26% game. So pending future tricks, there is no way to beat the game without the charge beam / super missile.

Now i'm off to try and get the plasma beam prematurely.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:41:35 AM
I attempted the tbj in the Fungal Halls and Quarantine caves to see if the Grapple could be eliminated; all my attempts succeeded in me rolling off the tip of the 'shrooms. But working on the Plasma Beam, that could be a worthy challenge.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:42:48 AM
tlj: did you try Morphing out of ball mode/jamming B as you hit the lip of the platform? that seems to help on sloped surfaces.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:45:51 AM
Nope, but I can go back and see if that gets me anywhere. Though, unless someone finds a way of getting the Plasma Beam w/o the Grapple, then perfecting the Fungal Halls and Quarantines w/o it could be a waste of time.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:47:17 AM
hmm, does the artifact appear right after beating flaahgra? i never understood what triggers the artifact appearing. say you beat him then turned around and went back in and tried to tbj on him to get to the artifact, would it work?
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:48:39 AM
I don't think so. If memory serves, the Artifact only appears after the three Chozo Ghosts are beaten, which only appear after visiting the Hall of Elders...
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 1:55:19 AM
Yes, the artifact only appears after beating the chozo ghosts. And i wouldn't recomend trying to tbj off of puddle spores. =p

A spacejump gets you awfully close to that platform you grapple too though. So, perhaps tbj will reach it from the loan platform in the middle of the lava.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:00:16 AM
if i double bomb jump off that rock in the landing site i can almost get up to that ledge devilbit was talking about. it doesn't seem totally out of the question.

the only problem is the surface of the rock is so messed up that it's hard to do a tbj on it without falling off. i think it'd get enough height to get on the ledge though, assuming you morphed out in midair. trying some more...
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:02:06 AM
Which rock are you talking about btw? The one that juts out and has the little brownish area on the bottom? or what?
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:17:16 AM
omg, i was partly on the ledge with a tbj but she slid off. asjfhaskjghkjashg.

i mean the brown rock to the ship's right. you get on it and morph, then try to tbj and morph out to the ledge next to it (which is near the door going to chozo ruins). seems like the best chance we'd have... IIRC devilbit said he actually got up there in his thread about it, but i don't remember.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:19:44 AM
hmm, interesting. I'll have to check it out. Do you tbj to the right? Is that little rock that sloped brown one Directly off the edge of the ledge leading to the Chozo ruins? if yes, i know which one you're talking about.

If you could get up there, i wonder how much better you could do on a varia-less run to Phendrana drifts =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 2:41:53 AM
argh, i almost did it again. i think this is possible, i'm just no good at morphing out. what's the best time to do it? most of the time if i morph right when bomb 6 hits you she doesn't go anywhere, so i try to do it at the peak of the jump.

the rock is that one to your right when you exit the ship, in other words that one near the door going to chozo ruins. it's on the very edge of the level of ground its on, if that makes any sense. =P

when you tbj, you want to catch the lowest part of the ledge above it (but it seems like it loves making you slide off if you get it). maybe devilbit's topic has more on it, it's something like "maybe you can get space jump before wave.".
From: buffytvsfan | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:13:22 AM
Man!! Here and I was working so hard with nothing but the double bomb jump last night!!! Oh well. I'll have to try this out when I get home. I definitely think getting the Space Boots is possible with the tbj.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:53:39 AM
tbj'ing in the Fungal Halls and Metroid Quarantines never panned out; unless I just suck at it, there's one instance where you have to Grapple on a flying Glider to cross one of the sections of Phazon. I did four triple bomb jumps and none got me remotely close to the tip of the mushroom. ><

However, actually getting the Space Jump before Flaahgra would probably be beneficial, though to me it seems that in the long run, it might actually add more time to a run simply because you'd have to backtrack out of the Arboretum all the way to the Landing Site. I guess it just depends on if you're going for speed (like me) or low percentage.

-Tim
who also can't figure out how to change his contributor name :P
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 11:42:12 AM
kip- i read DEVILBIT's topic and i'll give it a try. I'm not sure exactly how Space Jump before Flaahgra would help, except for a possible drifts run, but, it's always fun to get items ahead of time =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 3:44:13 PM
hmm, besides the cuteness factor i wouldn't do space jump before flaahgra unless it saved you time in a speed run. most of all my "serious" games are speed runs now, they might as well be. =P

you'd have to leave chozo ruins to go to the landing site, but then, once you got the boost ball you wouldn't have to go from phendrana to tallon overworld and back (something that routinely takes me 6 minutes in hard 28% speed run).

can't figure out what's faster. if it took 6 minutes to go from chozo ruins and back to flaahgra after getting it, it probably wouldn't be worth it then (especially considering it's not easy to do). i doubt it would take more than 4 minutes though, but that's assuming you got it first try. =[
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 5:51:38 PM
If the rock you're talking about is the rock i've seen, you're insane. I can't keep on it for more than a second before getting flipped off, let alone complete a double bomb jump. lol

As for getting the plasma beam w/o the grapple beam; it might be possible to tbjm off the ground in the lava closest to the lowest platform. I can't test it extensively right now, because puddle spores occupy this room. I think you have to have the power bombs before they leave (or at least have visited the phazon mines at some point.)Hopefully they don't stay until you get the grapple beam, because getting hit by them with 99 energy on normal is annoying enough, let alone getting up and shooting them every 2 tbj attempts. But it may be possible. I just have to get down the phazon mines now to see if i can get rid of them.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 5:58:02 PM
"I can't keep on it for more than a second before getting flipped off, let alone complete a double bomb jump. lol"

you have to constantly adjust yourself to the direction opposite of the one it's making you go (if you're sliding right, tap left a few times slightly, and so on).

about the puddles spores, they're not there when you go to get the plasma beam... but then again i always have the grapple beam, so hopefully that's not the trigger, it's getting the power bomb or something else (ice beam? grav suit?).
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 6:14:04 PM
I believe the trigger is just time. They're there the first time, but I went back once (when I was still just wandering aroud aimlessly), and I hadn't gotten PB or GB yet, and they were already gone.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 6:21:09 PM
I had the ice beam / gravity suit after beating Thardus, and they were still there. I'm thinking you have to go through the crashed frigate or enter the phazon mines for the first time.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:15:50 PM
I was just checking out the new Japanese metroid site
http://metroid.jp
and noticed that they listed Phendrana Drifts as Ice Valley and Magmoor Caverns as Lava Caves. How funny =p

It's weird to think most of Japan hasn't played fusion or prime yet. I guess i finally know how they feel when we get games months late.
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:45:50 PM
Sorry to cut in and all but figured I should help your valiant efforts. :-)

tlj: I know for a fact that you don't need to go to the Hall of Elders before the Chozo Ghosts show up at the Sunchamber. That's because I went straight to the Sunchamber after beating Thardus my first time through.

Don't have a clue what triggers them though.
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:48:58 PM
Wow Yoda, that's very interesting indeed. The ghosts showed up in the sun chamber without ever visiting the hall of elders? I might have to start over and see if i can trigger the ghosts before dropping down the shaft. Did you visit the artifact chamber beforehand to get the first artifact at the impact crater?
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:54:42 PM
I think I did but I don't remember. I remembered there was a Spider Track there so as soon as I got the Spider Ball, I had to try it out. I got whooped since I had never faced those Ghosts before though!
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:57:08 PM
i already got a save right before flaahgra (that magmoor without varia suit one that i also use to play around with getting space jump), so if you have any suggestions for getting the ghosts to appear just let me know.

i guess i'll mess around with it now, i keep sliding off that stupid ledge in the landing site anyway.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 7:58:01 PM
I'm curious because, if you can trigger the ghosts before you drop down that hole by visiting the artifact chamber before hand, you could beat the game without the charge beam or the super missile. Making a 26% game possible. I'll start a new game right now to test it out.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:00:06 PM
i haven't visited the artifact temple so i'll go there and grab truth without saving. =]
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:25:25 PM
uh, well, they're not appearing. i went to the temple and got truth, then killed flaahgra. i keep going back and forth between the sunchamber and sun tower but the ghosts aren't showing up (neither is the sunchamber artfiact).

any suggestions? i keep trying to get sun tower access to "reload" itself by almost jumping down the sun tower, but moving back to the ledge before i fall down, if that makes any sense. =P
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:28:29 PM
Maybe you have to kill Thardus? That's the last thing I did before going there. But that's kinda useless since you have to beat Flaahgra first.
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:29:04 PM
Well, the only other thing i can think of is to visit magmoor caverns before killing flaahgra *shrug* doing that right now.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:30:34 PM
they probably appear before thardus (like the hall of elders ghost), but since it seems impossible to get back up to the sunchamber without the spider ball, i can't really tell. =P
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:30:47 PM
maybe try going into the furnace and then going as far as you can (to the wave beam door) anyway just to see if the trigger comes earlier? Highly doubtful, but it's all I can think of right now, if you want to try it again... Good luck kip

On another note:
I was just checking out the new Japanese metroid site
http://metroid.jp
and noticed that they listed Phendrana Drifts as Ice Valley and Magmoor Caverns as Lava Caves. How funny =p

Hey yeah; they list out the morph ball as "Morph Ball" too, instead of sticking with maru mari. I thought that's what it was called in the first game in Japan at least. Wonder when it changed, if it was with Prime or beforehand?
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:35:38 PM
Wow, this is great. I saved at my ship either before or after i got the artifact, and definitely before i went to magmoor caverns via the tallon overworld. But get this: as i went back down into the chozo ruins, my game froze -_- and this loud BZZZZZZZZZ sound came out of my speakers. Now i have to backtrack Ugh
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:38:11 PM
yuck, the infamous freezing glitch. that's happened to me a couple of times too, although it's not much considering the bazillion hours I've logged w/this thing.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:39:23 PM
"maybe try going into the furnace and then going as far as you can (to the wave beam door) anyway just to see if the trigger comes earlier?"

hmm, why not i guess. gonna reload and get truth again... or should i not visit the artifact temple you think?
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:52:23 PM
$&!#! I just realized you need the Super Missiles for the artifact in the column for Magmoor! You can't get 26%!
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:54:39 PM
"$&!#! I just realized you need the Super Missiles for the artifact in the column for Magmoor!"

no, 4 regular missiles breaks that one.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 8:57:58 PM
Ok, i've been to the impact crater, entered magmoor at both teleports (and went and got damaged by the heat), went to the sun chamber. Think i should go to the furnace as well, then kill Flaahgra?
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:01:58 PM
4 missiles? Nice! I didn't know that.

Couldn't you cut a shortcut through Magmoor by going through the Root Cave? Overworld > Magmoor > Phendrana really quick. It's easy to get back from that transport quickly. I can do it in, like maybe a minute. How fast does Magmoor drain your energy w/o the Varia Suit?
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:12:43 PM
Too fast heh. Impossible w/o the Varia and only 4x99 energy on Normal.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:22:21 PM
Oh, one other really long-shot suggestion after you beat Flaahgra to try to get the room to "reload" (I know exactly what you're getting at) is to go into the sun tower (just before you drop down), then turn around and make the door open/shut a few times before going back. Once when I was trying to get the newborn artifact w/o the phazon suit, I went into the adjacent room to gather energy and went back (this works very well) but shot one of the doors early and then didn't go through it before it shut again. The room with the artifact then reloaded and reset the rocks. That pissed me off, but it might come in handy here.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:25:16 PM
I don't know about visiting the artifact temple; I always do that last too, but maybe it wouldn't hurt? It could be part of the trigger, and I doubt it would prevent you from getting it.

or maybe Banks17 could do it try it with the artifact and you without... or if you guys tell me which way you're not going to try, I can try that one; I'm replaying this now also for the same reason. =)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:37:35 PM
Well, i got the same result as kip. No ghosts. I re-entered/exited that last door a few times. I also ran back and forth from the sunchamber to the sun tower

Nothing. But i didn't go into the furnace at all. I was too lazy to try and do tbj for a half hour =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:43:10 PM
i just went to the furnace (after getting truth). i went up to the ice beam door by using a dbj to get there, then shot it a few times and went to the wave beam door blocking your way to the hall of elders.

after that i killed flaahgra, went to sun tower went back, nothing... i'll try to get the rooms to reload for a bit, any other suggestions?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:46:06 PM
Nothing i can think of *shrug*
the trigger for ghosts could be any number of things. The most likely one is Thardus's death. I can't think of any more places you can go to before fighting flaahgra, except for maybe going to the outside of the Crashed Frigate. You could try that too i suppose.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:46:38 PM
bummer. sounds like a dead issue.

UNLESS... (you're gonna hate me for saying this) the trigger could be the space jump... >;-)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 9:48:24 PM
isn't that pulse bombu supposed to be gone when the ghosts appear? i remember you see a ghost in sun tower access but he runs away to the sunchamber. forgot if the pulse bombu is still there though.
From: kip | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:02:19 PM
well, as we now know thardus doesn't trigger the ghost for hall of elders, so he might not trigger the sunchamber artifact being available either... don't know though since we can't get up there.

wouldn't that be hilarious if it was space jump. you get space jump early using a tbj, which in turn lets you get the sunchamber artifact early, which in turn opens up 26%. funny how that works and i bet nobody would've figured it out if it wasn't for our unmatched wisdom. =[

a thing i noticed about sun tower when you leap down after flaahgra, there's this rock platform near the top of the room against a wall you can land on, and if there's some way to get back up to it later with space jump, i think you could just space jump to the track from there and catch it, or land on one of the track blocks and go up normally from there without getting rid of that "runic gate".
From: Mewtarthio | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:07:47 PM
Going to the Frigate early wouldn't work. If you do that, there's some Phazon that isn't there later and a couple of Flying Pirates.
---
"It is the winning side who decides who the traitor is... and I think we both know who the winner is." ~Grigor
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:28:18 PM
the pulse bombu is gone when you come back for the artifact and the chozo ghost appears; I remember that for sure.

hey yeah, I think I know what you mean about that little rock that sticks out as you fall down the sun tower; I've landed on it unintentionally quite a few times. I don't really have any ideas how you could reach it from the ground because it's so high, but I'll keep that in mind; good thinking.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/21/2003 10:53:48 PM
Just wondering, how well does a BJ, DBJ, or TBJ work underwater? Does wearing the gravity suit make a difference?
---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 11:24:09 PM
tlj: I know for a fact that you don't need to go to the Hall of Elders before the Chozo Ghosts show up at the Sunchamber. That's because I went straight to the Sunchamber after beating Thardus my first time through.

I thought this was too funny since the method I use to speed run involves the Sunchamber immediately following the Spider Ball upgrade :P

So I don't know what I was thinking when I said the Hall of Elders was a trigger; Thardus' defeat may be it.

-Tim
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/21/2003 11:34:36 PM
Yes, you can barely move in water w/o the Gravity Suit, let alone do a Double or Triple Bomb Jump.

I also figured something out (though I don't know if this is how Banks and Kip did it) in the Hall of Elders, when going for the Ice Beam. From the little platforms where you hop up, there's a very tiny outcropping of rock you can just barely stand on. Morph into a ball and TBJ from there to get inside the little access tunnel. It took me about six tries, but it's more reliable than attempting to find a way to the Morph Ball slot up top.

-Tim
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 12:20:18 AM
I think Kip mentioned being able to possibly TBJ into that little unblocked passageway without going to the trouble of unlocking the colored bomb sockets.

But you have to do that later anyways, because i think the red socket unlocks an artifact.

If that's what worked for you, then great, more power to you. ^_^

And if Space Jump was the trigger I'd have to seriously re-evaluate my rock balancing skills.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/22/2003 12:24:56 AM
Yeah, purple unlocks the passage to the tunnel, white unlocks an Energy Tank, and red unlocks the Artifact of World. With lots of practice, I'm able to TBJ every 1 out of 4 tries (getting better)

-Tim
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 12:30:21 AM
If you want to unlock the colored sockets, just do a space jump to the peg on the circular bulge on the wall. If you get it right, you land right on it. Then space jump up to the platform and you're set.

Sorry if you already knew how to do this, but i guess anyone who doesn't know this does now =p
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/22/2003 12:49:31 AM
I always just space jumped up to the floor near where the missile recharge station is, and then space jumped again up to the level where the colored switches are. I didn't realize that anybody did this differently until now, in fact; I'm starting to notice several people implying that they haven't used that method.

any way you slice it, it sounds like there are plenty of ways to reach the switches and the place where the force field is, which is a nice change from how impossible it seems to "break" the game by getting the space jump early. ;-)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/22/2003 12:57:30 AM
never mind; I'm using that "special" part of my intellect again, apparently, and should probably get some sleep. <:-) Pay no attention to that dumb post behind the curtain!
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2003 2:04:46 AM
i'll keep trying to get the space jump, but you guys know the story already: she slides off every time i get up there. i must be doing something wrong because devilbit got up there. =[
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/22/2003 10:29:14 AM
Hmmm, I'll go back and try the Space Jump method, see if it's easier. The tbj from that itty bitty perch is rather tough at times since a single misplacement bombs you off the ledge rather than up :P

As for the Space Jump, what exactly is the method for getting it prior to Flaahgra?

Regarding the Geothermal Core: More power to anyone out there, but I found absolutely no places where I could TBJ or TBJM to reach one of the discs. I tried Space Jumping and all I got were lava baths. I'm now beginning to think the Grappling Beam is going to be required to get Plasma Beam.

-Tim
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/22/2003 4:05:14 PM
the method for getting Space Jump early should be actually quite simple. Get the boost ball, just like you're supposed to. Yes, it's in Phendrana, and yes, you have to go through Magmoor before getting access to Phendrana, but it's not as long as you might think. As soon as you have the Morph Ball, you can get to Phendrana by going to Magmoor via the Root Cave, which takes loads of time off your trip. I tried it without an energy tank, and I didn't even get through the first room, but I also fell in the lava, so if I don't do that again and I can get some more energy tanks, it might be possible.
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/22/2003 4:08:58 PM
nah, kip's tried going that way w/o the varia suit already, I believe. I know I did, at least, and although I only had 3 e-tanks plus the 99 energy when I tried it, it was not even CLOSE. Not even shortcutting as much as I could, trying to refill energy, or trying to avoid falling in the lava. Nothing worked.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/22/2003 4:33:19 PM
Urgh! I'm getting really really close, BUT I KEEP FALLING IN THE LAVA! $#@%^@! STUPID LAVA! DIE DIE DIE! No, wait! I meant the lava, not me! GAH!!!
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/22/2003 6:20:58 PM
Whats the dif between TBJ and TBJM?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 6:31:59 PM
TBJM just adds onto the triple bomb jump. Apparently it works best on sloped surfaces. Here's what you do:

Do your "standard" triple bomb jump, and just as you hit the 6th bomb, Morph out of ball form and push forward. In certain areas (left corner of the chozo ice temple ledge and the small rock by your ship in the landing site), you're supposedly able to get more height than just doing the tbj and therefore can access these areas before you're normally able to.

The reason i said supposedly is because, although it has been proven that you can get into the Chozo Ice Temple without space jump using this method, getting space jump boots before flaahgra has yet to be achieved other than by DEVILBIT. And since we can't perform the trick with success, and i'd say we're quite skilled with tbj / tbjm, space jump before flaahgra has yet to be a validated for practical (and i use that term loosely) use.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 6:33:25 PM
CUBEfreaK: almost close to what?
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2003 6:43:37 PM
tbjm should be morphing out at the end, some time after bomb 6 hits you.

i tried like 10 times to go from magmoor to phendrana without varia. i had 3 tanks (all you can have before flaahgra) and i was playing on normal and the best i could do was get to shore tunnel, which is the 3rd room. i could get right up to the door going to monitor station, but the energy just doesn't last after that. my run was pretty much perfect too.

assuming you somehow got to monitor station with a decent amount of energy left, you still have to make it through that room, and then transport tunnel A to finally get to the elevator to phendrana, which is the only cool room on this route.

one time i was bored so i ran through every room of magmoor with the thermal visor on. if a room is cool, it won't look yellow and red on the visor, it'll look purple. the only cool rooms i ever saw were elevators from one to place to another, and that one room where you get an energy tank by cooling the lava (near the elevators to phazon mines and frozen pike).

so on that run to phendrana, you have to get through 5 rooms before your energy runs out. you're doing "good" to get through the first room with about 20 energy on your first tank remaining. the second room takes everything else away since it's big and you have to jump in the lava to accelerate your death if you want to get anywhere.

so, i'm not saying it's impossible or anything, but you're making it sound easy, please show me how to do it. =[
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 6:50:33 PM
kip- even if you were to get all the way to the monitor station. Suppose you were able to get space jump boots before flaahgra. If you got through the doors, you still have 3 turrets to deal with. Even THEN you'd have to destroy every box in the room within 5 seconds, and randomly shoot puffers(sp?) to get exp as you were on the move.

It might be possible but, would be useless on a minimalist game. And while you were in phendrana, you'd probably want to use the tbjm to get the wavebeam before you leave (if that's even possible) so you don't have to make the trip again without having more energy tanks. (such as the ones in hall of elders and crashed frigate.)

Sigh, so many possible break downs for this game, and we've only found one Really important one, minus the wavebeam>spacejump, which both don't lower the % of minimalist game anyways =\
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 6:51:07 PM
get exp = get energy ;)
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2003 6:55:36 PM
the turrets in monitor station are bad, but if it's on normal you can just run to the top while rapid firing missiles at all of them. i'm sure you could kill them all before they have a chance to hit you while you're making your way up.

but i just don't get how you get there with anything more than about 80 energy. the boxes only seem to give you small energy which is pretty much useless and just gets sucked away in two seconds. if it was ultra, this would be easy (or if it was possible to have about 2 more tanks).
From: buffytvsfan | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:11:00 PM
So, getting the Space Boots is pretty much the only hope for the "no Varia before Magmoor" run. That what you're saying, kip? :)

Too bad nobody can pull that off yet. It would be interesting to know if that helped you make it through Magmoor...
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:18:08 PM
The only reason one would want to get space jump b4 flaagrah is on a speed run, or jsut for the heck of it. The trek from the boost ball place to Space jump back to Phendrana is of major annoyance, and takes at least 5 minutes :/
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:22:55 PM
hmm not exactly, just sharing progress. always open to the possibility that i can't get through is because of my newbness. =[

space jump would help out though. you'd take less damage in the second room, and you could take a couple "major" shortcuts in monitor station by space jumping in key places instead of going the long way around.

with space jump and 2 more tanks this would so be in the bag, but i don't know where we're gonna find 2 more tanks. still if you could make it to phendrana, you just save the game then go back to transport tunnel A for the energy tank there, and you'd be able to go back and forth without too much trouble i imagine, since you'd be gradually building up your tank count from there.
From: buffytvsfan | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:24:30 PM
What about doing it just for the sake of getting an item out of order?? The pride, man! The pride! Think of your good ol' Super Metroid days, and go for it! :)
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:25:12 PM
It would also be useful for finding out what triggers the chozo ghosts to appear in the sun room. If you actually had to make it to phendrana drifts / get boost ball / get wave beam / get space jump or whatever, you could find out by defeating flaahgra. Going into the Sun Tower, and try to refresh the sun chamber. But as far as we know, it might note even trigger until after you've killed flaahgra and been to another area. *sigh*

Space jump triggering the ghosts without having to drop down the sun tower is the only hope left for a 26% game (no charge beam / super missile)
From: buffytvsfan | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:27:14 PM
I have not completed Prime yet, so pardon the question. But would the Space Boots help you get any more Energy Tanks?
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:27:41 PM
hard to tell if space jump before flaahgra saves time.

you have to leave chozo ruins to go get it, then go back and fight flaahgra, that'd be about 3 minutes/4 minutes something right there, and that's assuming you did the tbjm on your first try (yeah right). if it wasn't so hard to do, there would probably be no question about its worth in a speed run.

i time myself in my speed runs, it always takes me about 6 minutes something to go from phendrana to overworld and get back with space jump.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:31:14 PM
Well, if you got space jump before Flaahgra and made it to phendrana drifts, you could (spoilers) pick up 3 more energy tanks before leaving. The first would be after getting the wavebeam and into that room where you raise the water. The 2nd would be in one of the research labs. You fire a missile at a containment tank and get an energy tank there. And then 3rd, of course, the one in magmoor drifts that's in the double bomb jump maze.
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:41:38 PM
yeah, then you just go back to root cave (easy with your new 3 tanks), then you could use the wave beam and ice beam against flaahgra and watch them bounce off. =]

not sure if you could get plasma beam since it requires a pretty long stay in magmoor, but maybe with enough tanks and the gravity suit helping out your damage...

one thing i don't get though, is what happens if you had the gravity suit before flaahgra (would be possible if you can get to phendrana), then you beat flaahgra and you picked up the varia. haha.
From: buffytvsfan | Posted: 1/22/2003 7:59:00 PM
That could be both funny, and cool!

All right, going home from night classes to play Prime. Finally! I've only been waiting all day!!
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/22/2003 10:23:05 PM
I THINK I GOT IT!

Ok, someone try and back me up on this one. If it works for someone else, I'll be positively elated. Too bad I was only able to do it once since Puddle Spores were shooting the crap out of me.

Anyway, after beating Thardus, you have the Spider Ball, which is the key item you need for the Plasma Beam. As you're leaving Phendrana back into Magmoor, stop inside the Geothermal Core. Hop to the platform immediately in front of you, fire a Missile or something to shut the Puddle Spore up, then stand on the very edge. Do a TBJ and a Morph and you'll barely catch the edge of the lowest disc platform. Crank the Control Stick and you'll be able to roll onto the platform, enabling you to finish a sequence and grab the Plasma Beam. I would've gotten the darn thing, but in my excitement, I missed a drop from Magnetic track to magnetic track.

I'll go back later and try it again; all other attempts resulted in lava baths due to the Puddle Spores.

-Tim
From: kip | Posted: 1/22/2003 10:25:57 PM
interesting. so i guess we have 27% at least, if someone can find another way through the quarantine caves.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/22/2003 10:29:44 PM
Nice! I was trying that myself today but didn't think I could quite make it. I'll give it another try and see if I can duplicate what you did.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 11:35:46 PM
Good job! i was trying to do that but had little success =p
Now i'll have to try some more ^_^
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 11:54:40 PM
Check this out:
http://www.gamezone21.com/shot_images/20031/21/ps3.jpg
Playstation 3

*um maybe this can help lower the completed % possible* ;)
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/22/2003 11:56:22 PM
*note, most likely fake =p*
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/23/2003 1:12:28 AM
'Prolly is, but it looks cool!
---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/23/2003 11:05:20 AM
Does anyone know if it's possible to do Bomb Climbing like in Super Metroid? In that game, you could also only lay 3x Bombs at a time, and there was a way (it's demoed at the title if you wait long enough) of mid-air morphing, then bomb climbing up a ways. If this is remotely possible in Prime, that would be cool.

-Tim
still working on Plasma Beam.
From: buffytvsfan | Posted: 1/23/2003 12:17:50 PM
Well, I would tend to think that it would technically be possible for you to continually repeat the process for the tbj over and over to send yourself higher, but the timing would have to be so precise that I would figure it's impossible. It's already so hard to pull off the tbj, let alone doing bombs 7 & 8 on top of that and getting them right on.

Maybe once I finish the game and start over I'll be insane enough to do this... I have spent much more time doing more insane things than that. :p
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/23/2003 4:03:19 PM
i'm not sure if more than a tbj is possible.
You see, you already start out by messing with the refill counter on the first bomb, which nets you 3 extra bombs to work with (5). So in order to get a 7th, 8th, or 9th bomb, you'd have to have the bomb counter refill just before you hit the 5th bomb, and it usually doesn't refill until after i've hit the 6th =\
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/23/2003 7:33:49 PM
Bump
From: CUBEfreaK | Posted: 1/23/2003 8:04:12 PM
Spider BUMP
---
Worship the K! It's all about CIRCUMSTANCE!
"Destroy the eye, and you destroy the image."
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/23/2003 9:58:43 PM
Bump, btw.

I've gotten the Plasma Beam twice using tbjm's and seen no ill effects thus far. Tomorrow, as I work on rewriting the whole guide to account for the Ice Beam trick, I'll start a new test run to make sure it doesn't get buggy. My primary problem right now just seems to be re-ordering everything, since both of these severely mess with my prescribed item order, heheh.

-Tim
From: kip | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:12:32 PM
i have a save near thardus (for ice beam + gravity suit), so i'll see if i can do that trick too. i should help you out and see if anything buggy happens with having the plasma early. getting my tv-in card to work isn't going anywhere so i might as well. =[

should i try to get through the quarantine caves without the grapple? or is it pointless right now?
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:17:23 PM
Is it possible to freeze a Metroid and use it as a platform? Or do you slide off like everything else rounded? Hell, try morphing on top of a Puddle Spore, and you'll get drop kicked into the lava :P

I had marginal or little success tbjm'ing trying to reach the mushrooms, but it might be do-able. I just kept slipping off the edge.
From: ZeroFZX | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:20:09 PM
A neat trick.. hardly benefitial though.. but hey it is really cool.. it's nice to learn something new.
From: kip | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:21:55 PM
"Is it possible to freeze a Metroid and use it as a platform? Or do you slide off like everything else rounded?"

yep, you slide off. tried to do that my first time through the game because i didn't know there were invisible platforms for a while (in the first quarantine room).
From: ZeroFZX | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:24:48 PM
I didn't read the whole part of this topic.. but if you go into Phazon mines without the spider ball you'll get trapped. You need it to get out of that one room, doubt that triple jump would help you there. Just thought I'd mention that.
From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:25:52 PM
I don't think you can even get INTO the phazon mines without the spider ball...
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: ZeroFZX | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:28:21 PM
All you need is the Ice Beam and Gravity suit I believe.. but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.. I don't remember using the spider ball on my way through the frigate. The first spider ball track in Phazon mines is the one that leads down the tunnel with the generator spinning if you don't count the crane outside.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:29:31 PM
The primary advantages of these tricks is time-saving. With these two alone, I cut my time from 4:43 down to 3:55, give or take a few minutes. The advantage is it eliminates insane amounts of backtracking.

And yes, it is impossible to get past Ore Processing if you don't have the Spider Ball. A few of us have already tried manipulating the Bomb Jump, but you have to have Spider Ball to get the Grappling Beam. Not to mention you need it to get the Artifact of Wild...

-Tim
From: kip | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:29:35 PM
yeah, you can go in now. but once you get to ore processing there doesn't seem to be any way to move on. i found a way to space jump from the second floor to the third, but i'm not sure if you can jump from the third floor to the top, much less the first to the second.
From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:30:00 PM
Alright, I could be wrong then. I just thought I'd try to sound intelligent ;)
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: ZeroFZX | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:32:57 PM
Haha.. I don't remember there being a save point until you get to the dynamo though, so as long as you don't get to there and save you should be all right... I think.. so at least you wouldn't ruin your game.. it would be nice to freeze Thardus though, I'm surprised that doesn't mess up the game shooting him with the Ice Beam.
From: kip | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:35:53 PM
hey tlj, when you did ice beam + grav suit early to save time, did you reload if you didn't get up to the furnace in about 5 tries? cuz if not, that'd save even more time. =P
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:37:17 PM
Kip (or anyone else) get back with me if you get the Plasma early, ok? I was making my way through Chozo Ruins and I used it on one of the Plated Beetles and the game froze up, and did it the second time when I tried it; perhaps you can get the Beam but not use it until you're supposed to?

-Tim
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:37:40 PM
it would be nice to freeze Thardus though, I'm surprised that doesn't mess up the game shooting him with the Ice Beam.

IIRC, the ice beam bounces off him :P
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:40:17 PM
hey tlj, when you did ice beam + grav suit early to save time, did you reload if you didn't get up to the furnace in about 5 tries? cuz if not, that'd save even more time. =P.

Heh. I saved in the Gathering Hall to make it easier on myself, but I reset it if I didn't get it within 3 tries.

-Tim
From: ZeroFZX | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:41:34 PM
Hmmm.. the Ice Beam bounces off of him eh? That sucks.. oh well heh, Wave Beam is better.. gotta love that heat seeking feature it has. But the Ice Spreader is still the best accessory.. (except for the Phazon suit).. love shooting Prime with that and freezing his face.
From: kip | Posted: 1/23/2003 10:48:48 PM
"perhaps you can get the Beam but not use it until you're supposed to?"

okay, until i get to the first plasma beam door in the metroid caves. if it still freezes then, uh...
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/23/2003 11:18:51 PM
Well, I managed to get the plasma beam w/o the grapple beam finally. I used a different method from Tim's to do it, but it works quite well. The good news is you don't have to attempt a tbjm with puddle spores pestering you. The bad news is it requires some rather precise jumping that might be tricky for me to explain over the internet since I'm not so hot at this kind of thing, but here goes:

In the geothermal core, head towards the door on the side of the room that's closest to the elevator to tallon overworld. On the right side of the door is a big rock that you can jump up on if you turn back around and face the lava, then jump up backwards. You'll have to experiment with the angle a little bit to find a way to get up there without sliding off; I don't know how to explain it better than that. (Facing toward the rock while trying to jump on it will make Samus slide off all the time as far as I know.

Once on top of the rock, look to your right, on the other side of the nearby door. There's a metal box there sticking out of the wall that you can reach with a space jump, although the ledge is small. You'll notice that there is actually a small lip sticking out of the box also; I tend to aim for landing on that instead of on top of the entire box itself in order to successfully land the jump.

Now look out in the direction of the lava, and just in front of you is a thin spire of rock. Yep, you guessed it... you gotta jump onto that ridiculously small spot. It's not quite as bad as it looks; there's a small flat spot on top of it that I aim for by looking downward as far as I can and then space jumping so I have plenty of time in the air to try to hit that spot.

Finally, space jump toward the lower platform with the spinner and voila! you made it, and can finish getting the plasma beam as usual.

Being eager to try out the hard-won toy, I took it to Phendrana and melted the ice that blocks the power bomb powerup there. It only gives you one bomb, as the expansion normally does, but hey; it works! :-)

Tim, I haven't had the game hang up on me yet after getting the plasma beam early, but I'll certainly let you know if it happens.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: ZeroFZX | Posted: 1/23/2003 11:28:54 PM
Hmm.. guess they must have expected that and made it to where the game wouldn't freeze up if you got the expansion before getting the actually power bomb.. but if you got the power bomb after getting the expansion.. hmmm.. still could cause a glitch.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 12:16:30 AM
Wow that's some pretty good stuff. Getting the plasma beam before the crashed frigate is awesome ^_^

I'll check out that crazy jump sequence in a bit =p
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 12:34:22 AM
Too bad you need the spider ball to reach the final door. It would have been nice to see what plasma did to thardus ;)

But i found a short cut in the olympic ball course. Instead of getting on the track immediately, you're able to space jump to one of the ledges under the track (roughly halfway across the track) and then morphball / bomb jump up onto the track. Could save a good couple of minutes on a speed run =p
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 2:16:47 AM
i guess we'll have to start working on the lower phazon mines; tbj enough so as not to need the grappling hook.
From: HarlemHero78 | Posted: 1/24/2003 2:29:18 AM
does anyone have any footage of this so we can see the trick...im anxious to see how its performed
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 2:44:21 AM
HarlemHero78: i don't think any of us have the means to record / provide a movie of the trick *yet*. i think kip is working on it, and i may look into it as well. Trust me, when you see that ball make it into the hole, it's unreal ;)
From: kip | Posted: 1/24/2003 3:15:29 AM
"i think kip is working on it"

i have a capture card but getting it to work is another matter (someone wanna help? =]). i'm thinking of just getting another one and praying it'll work without much hassle.

assuming i can get the whole thing sorted out and be able to capture video (and quality's good enough), i could do one of getting up the spider ball track to the furnace or whatever else.
From: akiraZ | Posted: 1/24/2003 5:05:35 AM
good lord, what a response.

when i posted the triple bomb jump in numerous threads back near when the game came out all i got was "bs, that's impossible" until i posted a vid, then all i got was "heh, cool, but useless". oh well, congrats on finding a use, guys.
From: kip | Posted: 1/24/2003 5:22:46 AM
yeah, i remember all that stuff. =]
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/24/2003 5:46:05 AM
Hi.

I had long time without playing the game but i just part some time to try AMASAWAs trick.

This is the best trick in the game, its exellent, so well tough out that it works on the first try.

I think this and skiping thermals are the only real time saving tricks in the game.

Fantastic trick, THIS SHOULD GO TO THE HALL OF FAME ALONG WITH CONTRA's CODE.
Even if the game locks on some place this great.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 9:28:26 AM
I confirm Amasawa's method of reaching the lower platform in the geothermal core without the grappling hook. Nice Work ;)

One thing i was thinking about: Since you can get the plasma beam before getting the power bombs/grapple beam, you can pick up that power bomb expansion in Phendrana drifts, go back into magmoor, and take the elevator down to the phazon mines using your new power bomb!

By doing this you save about half of your time going down as well as skipping the elite pirate fight =X

I also spent a good hour+ trying to jump from mushroom to mushroom in Fungal Hall without the grapple beam. I think it can be done because i was getting just close enough to bump and fall off the tip of the mushroom. But i haven't been able to quite get it yet.

How's this for a speed run:
-Missiles
-Morph Ball
-Morph Bomb
-Charge Beam
-Varia Suit

-Boost Ball
-Wave Beam
-Space Jump
-Ice Beam
-Gravity Suit
-Spider Ball
-Plasma Beam
-X Ray Visor
-Power Bombs
-Grapple Beam?
-Phazon Suit/Beam
;0
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:36:58 AM
LOl Amasawa - I messed with that same rock for nearly 20 minutes trying to get something to come out of it, but I kept rolling off when attempting a mid-air Morph. Now I gotta go back and see, since that tbjm is rather tough to do. Thanks for the info!

btw, I think it might've been a random glitch - the game hasn't locked on me the last four times with the Plasma Beam. ^_^

-Tim
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:38:47 AM
I appreciate the compliments. Now if we could just figure out how to finish the game w/o the morph ball... ;-)

Yeah, you can get into the Phazon mines the back way with the early power bomb pickups (the one in Phendrana and afterwards the one in Magmoor if you want. You can actually make it all the way to Omega with the Varia suit, which looks kinda cool. (side note: there are a few rather screwed up things that happen when doing this, most notably that you can still move underwater with ease in the room near the grapple beam, which is fortunate because otherwise you couldn't reach Omega w/o going back for the Gravity suit--the room with the mining cannon becomes a problem).

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like the Gravity suit can be ditched (yet) since you still need it for that artifact near the tower of light. I tried bombing underwater after getting the phazon suit to boost myself up the walls as much as I could, but didn't have much luck.

Also, getting the grav suit after the phazon suit works just fine, and the colors don't change.

Finally, I haven't experienced any game crashes yet even getting the main power bomb pickup out of order, and I've been happily liquidating everything in sight with the plasma beam, so maybe it's fine to use it after all.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:41:57 AM
I'll give 200 bucks to the guy who gets through Prime minus the Morph Ball ^_^. Heheh...

Hmmm, wonder what else we could possibly cut out of the standard progression...

-Tim
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:43:06 AM
nice going on the attempts to skip the grapple beam, Banks. That might turn out to be a breakable item after all; good luck!

Tim, glad to hear about the no-more-freezing. Let me know how the space jumping trick turns out. Seems like it's working rather well so far for those who have tried it, which is positive.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:46:41 AM
Yeah, I actually haven't attempted the Space Jump before Flaahgra technique. Is it really worth it?

-Tim
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:53:54 AM
no, I mean being able to space jump to the platform in the geothermal core. sorry about the confusion; I'm a little out of it today.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:57:08 AM
Heh, I realized what you meant after I'd posted, and I'm not aware of any way to edit messages without deleting them. Oh well, is the Space Jump before Flaahgra worth anything major?

-Tim
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:59:43 AM
good ? maybe it'd help attempting to get thru magmoor w/o varia as was suggested. otherwise i don't know.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 12:01:39 PM
Hmmm, nah. I think Banks mentioned a while back that even with the Space Jump, there's a series of four "hot" rooms that eventually kills you (even w/ 3 Energy Tanks). I always died in Monitor Station whenever I tried it :P

-Tim
From: chameleonX4D | Posted: 1/24/2003 12:05:31 PM
Has anybody tried skipping the Varia suit? I mean, like just race through the Magmoor cavern before you die? I've always wondered what the spider ball would look like with the Power Suit ^_^
---
If I want your opinion, I'll give it to you!
Proud owner of the Particle Fusion Cannon...home grown in the US of A.
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/24/2003 12:11:20 PM
Huh? I went through Phazon Mines L1, got Power Bombs, and left. I then went to the Phazon Mines West elevator, with Grav. suit. As far as I know, all you can do from that big room with the Phazon on the bottom is go in the elevator to a room you already passed through on the way to Power Bombs, or Plasma beam a door and be fried by Phazon and blocked by that security gate thing that you haven't opened from the other side yet.
So...How did you get to Omega from Phazon Mines West elevator?
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 12:21:56 PM
through the door halfway up the huge room with all the phazon (is it Phazon Processing center? I forget) there's a tunnel blocked by bendezium that leads to Elite control, which subsequently leads to Omega the way you usually go. Therefore, if you can get the power bombs early, you won't need to go through the wrecked frigate to reach the phazon mines; you can sorta sneak in through the processing center, if you see what I mean.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 2:42:41 PM
Hmmm so that one artifact is what is keeping gravity suit from being ditched... I'll have to check it out. Though most underwater maneuvering sucks without the gravity suit, so i'm not sure how much progress can be made there.

Here's a list of items and why they are needed:

Missiles: To open numerous locked doors.

Morph Ball: To enter pipes / holes to advance in the game.

Morph Ball Bombs: To blow up blocks, defeat flaahgra.

Charge Beam: needed with the super missile to get the artifact in the sun chamber.

Varia Suit: To survive in Magmoor Caverns.

Boost Ball: needed to activate generators/get space jump?/ get x-ray visor.

Space Jump: Needed in various rooms to advance in the game.

Wave Beam: Needed to open locked doors.

Super Missile: needed to get the sun chamber artifact.

Spider Ball: needed to get Plasma Beam / get past metroid quarantine A, and the artifact by wavebuster.

Ice Beam: Used to unlock doors.

Gravity Suit: Used to get artifact by the wavebuster.

Power Bombs: can be replaced by one power bomb expansion. used to advance further in the game / get an artifact.

Grapple Beam: Needed to pass Fungal Hall A? (may not be required)

X-Ray Visor: used to destroy Omega Pirate.

Plasma Beam: Used to unlock doors.

Phazon Suit/Beam: used to destroy Metroid Prime.

So that leaves us with Thermal Visor as the only item that we can not pick up and still complete the game. Hopefully if you look at this list, you can try and find ways around where they are required so we can knock down the % completion down further.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 3:49:12 PM
*bump*
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 3:52:33 PM
That grapple beam seems like it's just begging to be left out. Too bad Samus can't FLY. ;)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/24/2003 3:55:41 PM
Haha, space jump please =( Too bad you don't get it as the last item, and need it to get to the top of the impact crater or something. That would have been interesting =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/24/2003 7:40:25 PM
so what happens with the central dynamo if you get a random power bomb expansion as your first one? are you still forced to get the one in there? that'd be bad news for low %.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 7:50:46 PM
y'know, I'm not sure. I picked it up because I wasn't focusing on low % at all, but yeah, perhaps the the game still forces you to get the power bomb in the central dynamo. It depends on if the door blocked by bendezium that leads to the tunnel before metroid quarantine A is locked or not. It'd probably still be a pain to work with only one power bomb expansion anyway on a speed run though, since it's kind of time-consuming to have to kill enemies to refill it constantly just so you can progress.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 8:27:19 PM
Hot damn Amasawa...your method for the Plasma Beam far surpasses mine! I got it on the first try this time, and beat the game today with no ill side effects. I'd guesstimate that getting the Plasma early knocked off another 15 minutes.

-Tim
From: kip | Posted: 1/24/2003 8:37:24 PM
i really need to rethink how i'm going to go through the game in hard 28% speed runs now, it's getting complicated.

so, it's been said ice beam + grav before thardus saves time even though you waste time going further into the pirate base after getting super missile.

and plasma beam early would definitely save time since you don't have to take another trip to magmoor just for it after the grapple beam. but i would still have to go through the frigate to avoid being forced to pick up the power bomb in central dynamo in addition to the first one and getting 29%.

anything else?
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 9:10:34 PM
Hmmm, anyone know if you can get the Artifact of Nature by using four Super Missiles to the rock pillar? Or does it absolutely require a Super? I'm trying to isolate which ones are Cordite during my reorganization.

-Tim
From: Arathorn21st | Posted: 1/24/2003 9:13:34 PM
4 regular missles...get it on the first time through Magmoor.
---
Pokemon Stuff in Quote---AC: Name Ulysses, Town Athens
<Member of Peach's Castle Turnip Tossers>
From: kip | Posted: 1/24/2003 9:14:42 PM
if nature is the lava lake one, regular missiles work (4 of them). i think the charge beam might even work.

the control tower one also doesn't require a super missile.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/24/2003 9:19:31 PM
Thanks much. New thing to add to the guide (you should see how torn up it is right now :P)...

-Tim
From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/24/2003 9:53:38 PM
Unless you guys are talking strictly hard mode, I must inform you that the pillar with the one Artifact only takes 2 missiles in normal. I just did it yesterday in my 28% run, and it did indeed only take 2.
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: kip | Posted: 1/24/2003 9:57:51 PM
the double damage on hard thing must apply to the pillar too then. =P
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 10:40:33 PM
cool, it seems like this way of getting plasma early is a keeper then. *Homer Simpson voice: i am the champions... of the wooooorrrrldah!

but i would still have to go through the frigate to avoid being forced to pick up the power bomb in central dynamo in addition to the first one and getting 29%.

I can confirm whether you absolutely have to get the power bomb in the phazon mines if you want when I get some time, unless someone else wants to and/or gets around to it sooner.

btw kip, you mentioned trying out dmc2 in a couple of days... are you talking about devil may cry 2? I haven't been much aware with what games are upcoming lately...
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/24/2003 10:43:17 PM
300th post... yay

anyway, I FINALLY got the tbj up into the furnace :)

but now I'm wondering, how do you get up to the ice beam without the spider ball? I've been thinking about this for a good THREE minutes! Any help would be great :D

btw: this r0x
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 10:54:57 PM
somewhere in this monster topic banks and kip talk about ways to get up to the platform next to the spider ball track, where the morph ball switch is that activates the three switches behind the statue. the easiest way afaik is to space jump to the post sticking out of the reflective disc that's near the platform, and then hop up from there.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:09:07 PM
Awesome, thanks Amawasa :)
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:17:11 PM
Hmm.. next question :P

How do ya get through the twin fires tunnel without the spider ball?
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:20:34 PM
sorry, which one is that? I don't recognize the room name.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:24:06 PM
Twin Fires Tunnel is the one where you Spider-ball through the whole thing, and you are spider-balling over magma the whole time. I believe I jumped in the lava here partially accident, partially to test Varia capabilities one time. I think I died, it's hard to get out.
Also, getting plasma beam early would probably cut off a lot of time just by being able to instantly fry near anything in the Research Labs, and the Sheegoths.
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:24:32 PM
It's the room in magmoor caverns directly behind the elevator coming from the overworld

There's a hole in the wall leading to a vertical spider ball track, which in turn leads to another track that leads to the exit

oh, and there's really deep lava underneath the track, keeping me from double jumping up the ledge to the exit :(
From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:26:02 PM
You don't need the spider ball for the ice beam, you just need the boost ball.
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:27:49 PM
ah, got it. well, afaik crossing the lava heading from the elevator from Tallon overworld toward the elevators to Phendrana near Thardus and the phazon mines back entrance is impossible w/o the spider ball. (I can never jump out of the lava on the other side, anyway). Going back toward the elevator to tallon overworld, however, you can cross the lava by space jumping across it and out of it as much as possible.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:31:43 PM
ahh... ok

Would anyone mind giving me a little mini-guide on how to get the gravity suit without the spider ball then?

Stupid player's guide is cramping my style :(
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:35:14 PM
Go through the research labs to where you get the thermal visor and use your sneakily-swiped ice beam to open the door nearby. this leads into phendrana behind Thardus, where you can continue on to get the grav suit as usual.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/24/2003 11:38:57 PM
ok, I'll try that :)
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/25/2003 12:41:59 AM
"Also, getting plasma beam early would probably cut off a lot of time just by being able to instantly fry near anything in the Research Labs, and the Sheegoths."

Don't tell me we made a way to get Plasma Beam w/o the Spider Ball...I don't want to rewrite another whole section...

-Tim
From: kip | Posted: 1/25/2003 12:46:20 AM
heh, only way i could imagine that is if someone was able to space jump from the start of the track to the door where the plasma beam is. =P
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/25/2003 12:48:28 AM
Oh good...I actually got scared for a second since I had just finished adding the Plasma Beam part in there (using Amasawa's method).

-Tim
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/25/2003 1:26:54 AM
Yeah i'm pretty sure you're not able to get to the ledge that leads to the plasma beam without the spider ball. But you can always try yourself =p

I just got home so, i think i'll check out Fungal Hall A? some more to get to that platform without the grapple beam.
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/25/2003 11:27:05 AM
Oh. That wasn't so smart, huh? I've read this whole topic from the beginning, and I still said that.
*Smacks self in head*
I do remember that Spider-ball track now that I think about it. Quite a lot, no? I went here to bump and noticed that I caused about 5 posts of confusion. Huh.
My apologies.
As for what I said...At least getting it early would help for...Other...Stuff.
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/25/2003 11:42:43 AM
don't worry about it. I've done worse myself, forgetting so much it's hard to believe I've played the game, let alone 500 zillion times.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/25/2003 2:02:30 PM
Heheh, don't worry too much about it. I'm constantly going back to the game to get the name of this room, or what enemies are in that room - I think playing it repeatedly actually makes you forget more.

Phew..actually wrote the two tricks into the guide and now am just manipulating the item counters to account for differences. Does anyone know if the Magnetic Rails in the Crossway (they lead to a Missile Expansion) can only be activated with a Super Missile? I can't remember if that thing on the wall is Cordite or not...

-Tim
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/25/2003 2:04:46 PM
yeah, it's cordite. I remember running into this recently because I had skipped the super missile altogether.

I was able to reach the first switch without activating the spider ball track just by boosting up there, but the second one I seem to miss by just a little bit. It might be possible to get up there, but I didn't try very long or very much to see if I could.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/25/2003 2:05:53 PM
Tim- Yup, it's Cordite. Just wondering, is your FAQ only for those going for 80-100% fast? And what is your best time for Normal or Hard with 100% after beating the final boss? You might have a GameFAQs record...
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/25/2003 2:33:02 PM
With all the stuff we've discovered, we better have a world record =p

Send that stuff into Nintendo Power, i heard they're posting fastest times or something.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/25/2003 3:16:27 PM
bump~
From: deej21 | Posted: 1/25/2003 3:51:49 PM
hey thats amazing, i cant do it perfect, tho i can get higher than regular double bomb jump

could someone tell me the accomplishments everyone has made, i heard about gravity/ice bfore thardus (duh), wave bfore space jump (i think)...could someone tell me the others?
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/25/2003 3:54:49 PM
They can now get Plasma beam before grapple. Pretty cool, no? Probably more coming soon, it's planned, anyway.
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: deej21 | Posted: 1/25/2003 3:56:02 PM
do tell, that or the page number with the info cuz i already started ready through all the pages and i dont want to anymore...
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/25/2003 4:29:43 PM
go into your profile, and set the page limit to 50 posts per page. using that, go to page 6 of this topic, and scroll down through to about 3/4th's of the page. It hsould be around there.
From: Green Mamba | Posted: 1/25/2003 8:00:00 PM
I just read this entire topic from page one to whatever this page is. It took me two hours.

But, after it all, I'd have to say I'm extremely impressed. I could never think of anything like that. I applaud you.
---
The most overrated games of all time:
Final Fantasy VII, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Halo, and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
From: deej21 | Posted: 1/25/2003 8:03:32 PM
i got to page 6 (with 10 posts on each page) and decided to just ask instead of read, but yeah this is a great accomplishment, and i think i finally pulled a tbj off...! and i read somewhere that u can fight ridley bfore omega pirate, hows that possible, i guess i beleive it but i want to know how...
From: Arathorn21st | Posted: 1/25/2003 9:21:28 PM
With all 14 e-tanks, it might be possible to get the Artifact of Newborn w/o the Phazon Suit. This means that the Phazon Suit is rendered useless until MP, so you can get the other artifacts and face Ridley.
---
Pokemon Stuff in Quote---AC: Name Ulysses, Town Athens
<Member of Peach's Castle Turnip Tossers>
From: kip | Posted: 1/25/2003 9:34:18 PM
"With all 14 e-tanks, it might be possible to get the Artifact of Newborn w/o the Phazon Suit"

it already is, amasawa did it before. but i think he used some clever method of farming health so he could get deeper into the tunnel and destroy more blocks until he could make it through with no blocks in the way (a power bomb doesn't effect them).

anyway, he said you can fight ridley before omega pirate, but you still have to beat omega pirate since he didn't go into hyper mode when he stood in a phazon pool (yet he took no damage even though he didn't have the phazon suit).

correct me if i'm wrong amasawa. =P
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/25/2003 9:46:20 PM
nope, as usual that's right on the money, kip.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/25/2003 9:50:07 PM
someone asked for all the discoveries, IIRC most of them would be:

triple bomb jumping (thanks akiraZ, banks, cubefreak, etc)
wave beam before thardus (thanks hamm)
no thermal (thanks... guy who started that very first thread ages ago, amawasa, others)
fight ridley before omega pirate (thanks amasawa)
ice beam + grav before thardus (thanks to various peeps)
plasma beam before crashed frigate (thanks amasawa, tlj, banks etc)
wave beam before space jump (unconfirmed: thanks devilbit, amasawa, etc)
space jump before flaahgra (thanks devilbit)
skip crashed frigate (thanks whoever)
kill flaahgra last (thanks to me in about 20 years when i do it and no one cares about MP anymore)

i must have missed something so just correct me where it's needed.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/25/2003 9:51:16 PM
LOL. I like that last one!
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/25/2003 9:51:45 PM
"wave beam before thardus (thanks hamm)"

uh, waveBUSTER before thardus. haha =]
From: deej21 | Posted: 1/25/2003 10:01:49 PM
awesome...have you confirmed if you can get space jump before boost ball?
and how do you fight ridly before omega & how do you fight flaagra last?
From: vandalr949 | Posted: 1/25/2003 10:08:59 PM
"& how do you fight flaagra last?"

lol check back in 20 years when nobody cares anymore.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/25/2003 10:09:25 PM
DEVILBIT made it up to one of the cliffs behind the ship by triple-bomb-jump-morphing off a small rock nearby. I don't think anyone's been able to duplicate this yet, although kip's come close to making the jump.

and fighting Flaahgra last is kip's dream that uh... hasn't quite been realized yet. ;)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/25/2003 10:50:24 PM
I don't think there will be anymore discoveries besides the one kip has mentioned for awhile. There's always one place you didn't think you could jump on, or there's always a side room you didn't realize you could bypass. But i'd say Grapple Beam less game is awfully close to realization, i swear, i'll make that jump soon ;p
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 1:16:42 AM
is that plasma beam thing something you can only do before you use the spinners? i loaded up my 100% game to check it out but i always barely miss the jump from the spire of rock to the platform with the spinner. either i'm not doing it right or it's easier to make the jump earlier because the platforms are more wide (are they? can't remember).
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/26/2003 1:22:43 AM
Well I just got the plasma beam right after thardus... so the spinner platforms must be a little bigger, 'cause I got it on my first try :P
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 2:04:47 AM
kip- nah, it took me about 10 minutes but i was able to jump the gap after activating the spinners. You just have to remember that yo uhave to be pushing forward before you start the jump to attain the maximum distance. It can be a bit tricky, but on that ledge you actually have a little bit to get a running start. Keep at it, you'll get it.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:37:47 AM
yeah, i just did it now (barely though, but it's still nothing compared to space jump before flaahgra ^_^).

well i've been messing around in geothermal core, trying to space jump to the plasma beam. although i can't do it, i unintentionally space jumped to the end of the track and then bomb jumped up to one of the last few pieces of it to go to the door to the plasma beam and skip the whole track pretty much. i really wish i had the video thing sorted out so i could show it visually, but meh.

how this works is you jump up on the first piece of the track on the spinner platform, then you turn and look at the ice beam door. space jump off and go forward, staying near the wall. you'll find that there's a rather large line you can land on at the end of the track. from here, walk under one of the last pieces of the track, then morph and do a single bomb jump and grab on, then just go to the ice beam door. would save a lot of time in a speed run i imagine.

currently trying to see if there's a way to bomb jump on top of the last few pieces instead of using the spider ball to grab on to the bottom parts (even if you could do that, you'd need to find a way to get to the top of that one spinner without riding the track up).
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:39:45 AM
hmm, you don't even have to space jump off the first part of the track. i messed up and just ran off and landed on that line, then walked to the last pieces of the track... lol
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:46:01 AM
yep you don't need to use the spider ball track on that one spinner to get on top of it. there's this bump in the track you can space jump on, then you just space jump again to land on the upper platform.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:49:36 AM
hahaha, you don't need the spider ball for anything in geothermal core, unless there's something i forgot about when you're using the spinners and actually getting the plasma beam (gonna check, this was in my 100% game).

i space jumped on top of the last pieces of the track, then space jumped from the last piece to the ice beam door. and like i said you don't need to use the spider ball track on that one spinner.

does this make it possible to use the plasma beam against thardus, if you went to magmoor from the entrance behind him so you don't have to go through twin fires? gonna check.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 4:57:31 AM
plasma beam before thardus is official. i just fought him with it. it hurts him, 3 charged shots breaks off one of his blue joints (on hard). 1 uncharged shot destroys rocks on hard, like the ice beam.

now one of you guys need to do it. =]
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 6:48:50 AM
well i'm gonna quit without saving and load up my 100% game to see if i can get from every entrance to every exit in phazon processing center without using the spider ball. if we can find a way through that room and ore processing, i don't see how the spider ball would be needed. ore processing is probably hopeless already, but whatever.

when one of you guys gets plasma beam before thardus, you should think about getting a power bomb expansion/the ice spreader + flamethrower and use all those on him too. i didn't do that because i was afraid the game would freeze somewhere or something, but i'm curious what it'd be like. would a power bomb do any damage? how would the flamethrower do?
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:02:40 AM
Holy **** kip, that's HUGE! Nice ****ing job man. My hat's off to you.

Okay, the first question I gotta ask is, how the hell did you space jump up to that spinner platform that has the spider ball track in between? I know the bump in the middle of the track you're talking about, and I had actually tried space jumping up off that too the other day attempting to do something similar to what you did, but I could never seem to quite clear the edge... or it might have been Samus hit her head on the top of the track and started coming back down too early. oh well, I'll try messing with it again for now.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:06:44 AM
just keep trying it. i'm not sure what makes it happen, but sometimes you just easily make the jump over it... which makes no sense really, but who cares. ^_^
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:14:23 AM
alllllllrighty then, that's what I'll do.

okay, for ore processing, couldn't you just skip it by coming through the other route? (i.e. get power bomb early from Phendrana, then go through elevator from Magmoor to Phazon mines? and if it turns out the grapple beam is still necessary (at least for now), I thought you said once that you could make it from level 2 to level 3 of the spider ball column by space jumping onto the top of one of the tracks or something.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:27:22 AM
forgot to mention, you can also try bomb jumping, but i've rarely been able to stay on the bump after i start putting the bombs down; she usually just falls off eventually, so i tried to space jump instead and got it to work.

about ore processing, that's a good point about going in the back way, i forgot about it. if grapple is still needed we would need to find a way to go from the 3rd floor to the top though, without spider ball. by 2nd floor, i meant the one where the blue track takes you. if you space jump to the third floor, you just end up at the ice door that goes to level 2. i haven't managed to get to the top yet (or from first floor to second, i just give myself a free ride via the blue track for now).
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:48:21 AM
by the way, i don't think that door to the metroid caves is ever locked (the one in central dynamo). i didn't try it myself since i don't have a power bomb expansion, but i went down there to use the plasma beam against the invisible drone, and it doesn't look like a locked door to me, but i could be wrong.

also, the elite pirate in dynamo access broke out of his tube on the way there, that's odd. i don't remember that happening until you backtrack through there a lot of times (i guess the plasma beam must trigger that fight).
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:49:22 AM
IMPORTANT TIP ABOUT SPACE JUMP.

you canextend the reach of the jump. just jump normally and when you press B a second time rotate samus diagonally. It gives you 2-3 extra feet.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:55:29 AM
I knew it for sometime but since i saw a previous post by someone trying to reach the other side of the big gap at phazon mines (without graple) you can do it this way. Altough youll need graple for 1 artifact. If memory serves me right.
From: Diffusion | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:55:49 AM
Is it possible to use the Flamethrower on Thardus?

My instincts tell me yes. Get the Gravity Suit and Ice Beam early w/TBJ, obtain the Plasma Beam early with Space Jumps, get the Power Bomb expansion in Phendrana, go through the Crashed Frigate, open the ice door, get to Phazon Mines, bomb open the Bendezium gate, etc.

It stands to reason that if the Plasma Beam works on Thardus, the Flamethrower should work extra-well. A use?

---
She dates losers. I mean, what kind of guy gets it for "attempted" rape? - doomsdays
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:55:53 AM
I agree w/you on both counts kip. I don't think that door's locked either, but I'll double-check it this time. And yeah, you're right that you don't get that fight the first time thru, and the same thing happened to me when I used the plasma beam to fight through Phazon mines w/o grav suit, so...

I tried bomb jumping up to the spinner platform the other day as well but I think I'll have better success w the space jump. now that it's been done, it's easier to be stubborn. :-D

thx DEVILBIT, will be sure to experiment w that
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:58:53 AM
At least This tip makes AMASAWAs trick a one shot succes, for anyone in a hurry.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:06:27 AM
grapple beam for an artifact... hmm, i don't think so, could be wrong though.

flamethrower (and ice spreader/power bomb expansion) should be possible to get before thardus, since plasma beam is, just use the expansion to blow open the bendezium gate. i just didn't do it because i didn't feel like going through the mines right now, and i was afraid the game would freeze and i would have to start over at tbjing into the furnace to get ice beam + grav again.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:22:31 AM
rofl, amazing. i got from the bottom of phazon processing center to the door to magmoor without using the spider ball at all. the way you do it is weird though once you get to the middle of the room.

so i guess this means the spider ball isn't needed. however i don't think that means 26%/27% just yet... skipping the spider ball would mean grabbing a power bomb expansion to avoid ever going to ore processing. and ore processing is still the room i'm not sure how to get through without using the spider ball.

but at least we know the spider ball isn't needed for anything else now (let me go check that last track before omega pirate real quick though, before i eat my words). i've known for a long time you don't need to use the spider ball track in the impact crater, you can just space jump to the end.

hmm there's also that one track in the metroid cave... need to check that one too.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:38:36 AM
uh... no idea how you get past that track in metroid quarantine A.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:51:48 AM
we still have to deal with that artifact in the sunchamber, too. also the spider ball tracks right before prime, although I don't think that's a very big jump up out of the phazon if I remember correctly. don't give up yet, though! (just put the problem aside for a while if you need to ;))
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:55:54 AM
i forgot all about the sunchamber. nevermind about skipping the spider ball... hahaha.

the track before prime you don't have to use though. just space jump to the end. =]
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:00:34 AM
can't seem to make that jump in fungal hall A either, without grapple. i keep touching the tip of the last mushroom but i can't get on.

i thought about freezing the glider and space jumping on him to see if you'd slide off, but i can't get on him either. and there's no chance of tbjing on him because he unfreezes way before you can even finish a double bomb jump... unless you could time it so that you'd land on him as he's coming around to your mushroom, and you won't take damage from being on top of him.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:18:26 AM
bah, enough fungal hall A for now. i think i'll try to get to the top of chozo ice temple without space jump or something.

hey devilbit, any tips for space jump before flaahgra? i still keep sliding off every time i get up there. i tried tbjing from her ship and i can get insanely close to the ledge behind it, but no dice.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:22:01 AM
Use my spacejump tip. Is easy to pass all fungal without grapel.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:23:36 AM
so... turn her around in a half circle or so after the second jump, or right before it?
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:29:53 AM
I apologyse for the lack of answers. I dont have PC. DC, without keyboard plus too busy to play prime lately. What i ment was you CAN cross the entire fungal segment WITHOUTH grapling beam, tough youll need it at phendranas edge for artifact,unless a way is found to bypass that..
From: deej21 | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:32:55 AM
wow, so basically the only thing preventing us from getting like every item before even flaahgra is magmoor eh...and you can only get 3 energy tanks before that...maybe we can find a way with tbj etc. to get an extra tank, tho i checked my guide and i think no others are possible until wave beam (cept dbj one)...cool especially that plasma before thardus thing

one question: i was lookin at times of posts, and, do u guys ever sleep??
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:38:06 AM
argh, i think you're right about the phendrana's edge one... i could try to find a way around using the grapple beam but i don't know.

*does sleep* =]
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:42:12 AM
second question, kip: I managed to get up to the highest spinner platform and jump from the first section of the track to the line you're talking about, but then I can't seem to reach any pieces of the spider ball track there with a space jump. Which pieces do you mean, exactly?
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:50:12 AM
the ones with the orange spider ball lines all around them, the ones you can move around completely clockwise on (square shaped). space jump on the lowest one near you, it has a light bulb looking thing sticking out, but i dunno if you can jump on the light bulb (shouldn't be needed anyway).
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:55:45 AM
i must be doing something wrong then, cuz I can just barely jump high enough from the line to get to where I'd land on the post sticking out of the middile, let alone reach the top of the square-shaped piece
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:00:01 AM
Ok. found how to.But i sugest trying before attempting anything crazy.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:00:56 AM
try hugging the wall when you jump, then move away from it when you space jump. anything to get extra height, it all works weird here (like sometimes you can't make the jump to the top of the spinner, but sometimes it's easy).

maybe you can bomb jump to the top part but that's not what i did, i just space jumped. in my experience you usually end up falling down to the lava if you don't do the bomb jump right anyway.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:03:15 AM
were you locking your direction with the L trigger when you did it? that doesn't seem to help me getting that extra boost, and yeah, that extra boost seems to be what's ****ing with me here and it's not happening when I'm on the ridge. trying to eliminate anything I'm doing wrong; i'll try what you suggested too
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:05:25 AM
i was locking direction, yeah (try locking downward). not sure if it makes a difference, but i used it so i could see where i'm moving in relation to the block.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:06:55 AM
okay, that's good at least (I like to be able to do that on tricky stuff like this) I'll keep0 trying
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Phoenixmon2 | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:09:36 AM
why can't you just go thru the hole in the side of the wall at the left in the Furnace? it leads you to the Ice Beam,after going thru the Crossway and Hall of the elders
---
This space is occupied by random words of no meaning.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:10:03 AM
Theres a root below the platform that you need the graple. Jump from the bridge to that root, if you manege to reach it, carefully slide a bit up while walking on it. The reason to do this is to have an angle for space jump to the platform. When you reach that, the rest is history.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:10:59 AM
yeah, just keep trying. at least you don't fall into the lava if you miss, it only takes a second to jump again. once you do it then everyone will know it wasn't just a dream of mine or something. =P

i really wish my vid capture situation could get sorted out already (getting new card, praying it'll work unlike the last one). if it did and you still couldn't do it, you can bet the first thing i'll do is make a video of that.
From: Videogaming | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:11:49 AM
Wow, great job kip, Amasawa, DEVILBIT, and co.

I am not really going to try all this stuff, unless you guys find 27% is possible or suttin, then I'll have to go for 27% :)

Idea: Does Ice Spreader freeze longer than charged Ice Beam? If it does, you might have time to tbj on troublesome gliders.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:24:26 AM
bummer, I don't seem to be having any luck getting on that last piece of track. so you actually jumped from the line below to the top of the square? wow, I can't even make it close to that. jumping on the post sticking out of the middle seems close, but I havn't managed that yet either. wonder what I'm doing wrong?

yeah, too bad about the video. I know what a pain that kind of thing can be, though (I don't have a high patience level with computer hardware <:))
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:27:01 AM
Yes, you can get phendranas edge artifact without graple. And like i said earlier, you dont need the graple in the fungals, you can reach OP without it. So, in what other place is need it?
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:27:23 AM
haha, devilbit, i think i know what you mean because i just got up there too without using grapple. i guess that means 27% since you said you can get through the fungal halls without grapple? there's still that room with a grapple point right before omega pirate though... but i think you can tbj there, only problem is in 27% you'll die if you don't get it the first try... if you can even do 1 tbj before the phazon in the pit kills you.

any ideas about that room?
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:29:25 AM
that part is easy.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:30:11 AM
yeah, i got up there, i kept pushing myself against the wall when i jumped. maybe i imagined it but it seemed to give extra height; either way i made it eventually, i'm serious. you need to do it too though so you'll know. =]

i'll go do it again though so i can see if i can find out any sure fire techniques to get extra height (i just jumped around wildly though). did you push yourself against the wall though?
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:31:35 AM
no tbj need it. Just spacejump. Try my sacejump tip.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:33:12 AM
there, finally got the plasma beam b4 thardus. thanks for the tip on pushing toward the wall and away again kip; that really helped a lot.

i'll go ahead and test out the power bomb & beam combos against thardus just to see what they do. nice work on the jumping up in phendrana's edge DEVILBIT, keep up the good work!
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:34:40 AM
"And like i said earlier, you dont need the graple in the fungals, you can reach OP without it. So, in what other place is need it?"

nowhere else then. it's not needed for the plasma beam even though it looks like it, i just got the plasma beam a few hours ago without having the grapple beam or spider ball.

the only other grapple points you would've had to visit is the one in phendrana's edge (but there's a way around those as we know), the fungal halls (you've said there's a way around that), and the room before omega pirate. that's it.

we got 27% then, maybe i'll do a confirmation run on hard just to be sure... then again i've never actually gotten through the fungal halls/room before OP without the grapple, but i guess i can learn how.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:37:08 AM
great, great job guys. I'll try to skip the grapple altogether this time around just to see if I can do it.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:38:22 AM
whew, i'm glad it helped. last thing i want is other people not being able to do the stuff and maybe doubting it.

are you gonna get the flamethrower? i was curious what it's like (also power bomb and ice spreader against thardus), but if you don't want to that's cool. i can do it again some time, or maybe banks or tlj will heh. =P

devilbit, how do you get past the room before OP without using the grapple point?
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:40:27 AM
uh NM about the question if you were gonna get the flamethrower. i didn't see that post. =P
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:40:54 AM
Ok. for the gap exactly before omega do this:

When you are at the square platfom (the one for the graple) jump at the tip of the angle, then hit B again and at the same time put samus side ways. remember Quake III this is something some fps engines aloud the user to do. If i could explain it better.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:00:34 AM
wow, i just did it. that thing is amazing... i don't know how you figured that out but it's amazing. =]

now i need to work on getting through the fungal halls. i haven't done it in those rooms yet (just used grapple beam to get to room before omega pirate).
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:01:19 AM
A complement for my last post. Before jumping fix your view a bit to the grond (by holding L) so youll see the vertice of the platform. Jump straight then hit B while pressing forward sides ways on the stick and at sime time release L. its like tale whiping. something like the truck in blastcorps if memory serves me right.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:05:40 AM
i got through fungal hall B by just doing that "jump against the wall, then space jump" thing near the red door going to the room before OP, lol.

seems that there are 3 ways through that room, at least (if grapple beam is included).
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:08:01 AM
exellent. theres one of the fungals with a trick. Instead of jumping from fungus to fungus go by the ground. At the end, jump at some rock formation sticking, then from there to the fungie then door. This is for the dark fungal room. For the other one apply space jump trick.
From: The Leech | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:08:20 AM
;-; Damnit. I can't do the 5th and 6th bombs right. Any suggestions?
---
*Total Darkness* Ya know, when one sense can't function, the others enhance. p00p iz teh f00ney wurd! ¬_¬ I stand corrected.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:14:05 AM
kip, if it makes you feel any better, I couldn't remember if I'd already written the answer to your question or not! <:D

man, you and DEVILBIT are on a ROLL! (Speaking of roll, any luck beating the game w/o the morph ball yet? ;))
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:24:29 AM
argh, can't make it to that last mushroom in fungal hall A, but i can see it's obviously possible since you can touch on the tip of the last mushroom, and that's without doing devilbit's trick.

which mushroom do you jump from? the highest one or that other one at the same height as the last mushroom?
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:02:05 PM
hey kip, how did you get to the top of the phazon processing center w/o the spider ball? i realized i'm gonna have to get the gravity suit if I want to get the flamethrower b4 thardus; can't get in the back way without the spider ball, it turns out, cuz there's spider ball track up a shaft partway through. (Not that there might not be some way to get AROUND that... >:) ... but there's no point in trying to figure it out now with bigger fish to fry.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:11:21 PM
ok, this one is hard to explain. from the middle (where the ice beam door is and all the boxes), look at those two things next to the glass window. they're like vertical ledges or something, with bars you can jump on.

what you want to do is space jump on the little bar on the one closest to the entrance to magmoor. when you land on it, turn around and face the glass window, then jump and move off the bar so you don't hit your head on the way up. space jump and go forward a bit, try to move into the thing itself.

you should stop in midair like you're stuck in it. from here space jump again to a higher bar on the thing, or just space jump to the closest platform directly above the spider ball tracks (should be able to reach it).

if you fall down, you can get from the bottom of the room to the middle without using the spider ball by taking the invisible platforms (if you don't have x-ray visor but you have thermal, use it to see where the gas is coming from on each platform, and that's a giveaway to where they are, so just jump on the gas).

oh and of course get rid of all the troopers as early as you can so they can't hinder you.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:15:32 PM
crap, I was just about to say nm; I'm reloading -- I just did. Sorry about that. :( Might be fun to try sometime though -- wow that IS a weird way of getting there. I never thought to use the thermal for the platforms; always just shot 'em, so thanks for that tidbit also.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:19:42 PM
=P

i still can't get past fungal hall A. either this one is tough or i'm doing something wrong. i'd hate to think of that room in a 27% speed run, getting it the first time and everything.
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:26:06 PM
So, the grappling beam is no longer necessary? How did you guys get the artifact in Phendrana's Edge without it?

---
<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
OHIO STATE-31 miami-24
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:31:41 PM
so hmm... if 26% was possible, let's think of the item "required" in the least number of situations or something. besides super missile and charge beam, those are only 1 situation but i don't see anyone getting to the sunchamber without those any time soon, given the layout of the sun tower.

spider ball is still a problem because of ore processing and that track in metroid quarantine A, no idea how to get past that one. but at least there was progress made here somewhat; it isn't needed in geothermal core or phazon processing center anymore.

there's a .0000001% possibility you don't need space jump, but going through ruined courtyard/observatory/the metroid room in the impact crater would be insanity. it'd be depressing to play without it, double jumps are just too sexy.

seems like super missile and charge beam is our best chance of lowering the % further.
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:35:20 PM
"How did you guys get the artifact in Phendrana's Edge without it?"

i'm not sure if this is how devilbit's doing it too, but i go to the broken "root bridge" thing just before the ledge you jump on where you start grappling to the next ledge. i run off the end and space jump to the small root tree thing near the wave beam door.

if you space jump right you'll land on it. if you land on it a certain way you can walk up part of it (at a slow pace so you don't fall off). once you walk up a little, turn around and space jump to the ledge you'd normally be after using the grapple beam twice. the rest isn't any different.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:37:09 PM
RockMFR5:

From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:10:03 AM | Message Detail
Theres a root below the platform that you need the graple. Jump from the bridge to that root, if you manege to reach it, carefully slide a bit up while walking on it. The reason to do this is to have an angle for space jump to the platform. When you reach that, the rest is history.


I just tried this and it worked perfectly for me also; first try. Nice going DEVILBIT!

---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Diffusion | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:41:51 PM
I wonder if you can see the Shadow Drone through the X-Ray Visor. Has anyone tried?

---
She dates losers. I mean, what kind of guy gets it for "attempted" rape? - doomsdays
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 12:53:53 PM
that's a good question. yet another thing to check out. =]
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 1:37:51 PM
"I can't do the 5th and 6th bombs right. Any suggestions?""

don't put bomb 6 at the peak of your jump, do it about 80% of the way up or you probably won't catch it after bomb 5 hits you.

also, try putting bomb 5 a little over halfway up your jump. probably obvious but it has to be put down while you're still ascending, if you do it at the peak (or later) it's pretty much guaranteed not to work.

anyone else?
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 1/26/2003 2:38:57 PM
Don't know if it's been said yet, too lazy to read through, but I think the x-ray visor might be skippable! Invisible bosses can be guessed at, invisible platforms can be shot to see where they are... Is there anything that REQUIRES the x-ray visor to advance?

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat.
From: YnEoS | Posted: 1/26/2003 2:54:47 PM
Cool trick having trouble with the timing on bomb#5. I get so nervous I place the bombs too soon and end up doing 2 double jumps in a row.
---
Why drink and drive when you can smoke weed and fly
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:03:59 PM
Is there anything that REQUIRES the x-ray visor to advance?

Can't damage omega w/o it; it's been tried.

---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:04:17 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: YnEoS | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:04:24 PM
Would be cool if someone could creat a quad jump.
---
Why drink and drive when you can smoke weed and fly
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:11:44 PM
Here's the scoop on alternative weapons against Thardus:

Ice Spreader: Useless; bounces off just like regular shots.

Flamethrower: Does damage, but chews up missiles like pro ball players do tobacco. You'll have to go through the frigate first to get it, so you'll have the added benefit of better armor and any more missiles you can scoop up (I had 135 without actively digging up every one I could), but it takes so much time that it hardly seems worth it.

Power bomb: Now THIS weapon was a little interesting. It did more damage to Thardus than any other I've seen, and strangly enough, I swear that not only did his weak spot light up when he took damage, but his chest did too-- y'know, his final weak spot. I'll have to try this out again; I only had one bomb to lose.

btw that plasma beam pWnZ Thardus badly; two charged shots on normal destoys a weak spot easily, but even uncharged shots get the job done quickly.. with the plasma beam's power and rate of fire, the battle can be over so fast it's laughable
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Suporuko | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:20:44 PM
I just got the plasma beam using Amasawa's trick and I don't know for sure but those platforms that the method uses seem like they were put there on purpose so this could be done. It also seemed pretty easy to do for I had no problem getting up to the spinner like that. I am not saying that I suck but I'm sure not the best video game player in the world (at least I don't think so).

All this leads me to believe that maybe, just maybe some of these alternate methods to get things were implemented on purpose. What does everybody else think?
---
I know and it gets kinda annoying. Whoever made up those catch-phrases is a weirdo for sure, imo.- Buffy Rox aka Nicholas23 on his own catch-phrases
From: Mewtarthio | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:29:00 PM
I find it strange that the designers programmed any effect at all on Thardus from weapons you shouldn't have when you fight him. I would've thought they'd go right through him.
---
"It is the winning side who decides who the traitor is... and I think we both know who the winner is." ~Grigor
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 3:36:48 PM
If you'd asked me a week ago, I would have thought there was no way that was true. But now, with all the things that are being discovered... yeah, I can't help but wonder how things were designed; what was intentional and what was not.

I had thought maybe they just designed bosses to be susceptible to certain weapons early on in the development before they were sure how everything would be placed in a world design, also. I'm not sure how likely that is, though; I'm just as soon inclined that some of these things were intentionally designed in, or found during play testing but left in as easter eggs for players to find, or both.

Oh yeah, related to this subject... I forgot to mention that I took Diffusion's suggestion this time and used the x-ray on the shadow drone, since you can get it early now. Yep, it's visible--shield and all.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/26/2003 4:04:40 PM
bump
---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/26/2003 4:09:23 PM
YAY!!

You can get powerbombs before entering the phazon mines :D

lol, just pick up an expansion and you can use 'em like normal!

I got the ice spreader right after fighting thardus!

!!!

/me does a happy dance

btw: haven't read most of this thread, if this was already posted, sorry :(
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 4:15:01 PM
it was, but it's still cool. :-)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Suporuko | Posted: 1/26/2003 4:29:47 PM
/me does a sad dance

I forgot that the Grapple Beam was at the top of that big tower that you move the sections around with. I had it mixed up with the missile expansion that's behind the bendezium wall in the first tunnel. I'll just have to wait till a little later when I feel like playing some more before I can get all the goodies that require the grapple beam.
---
I know and it gets kinda annoying. Whoever made up those catch-phrases is a weirdo for sure, imo.- Buffy Rox aka Nicholas23 on his own catch-phrases
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 5:01:17 PM
oh yeah, btw kip, I confirmed you can get out of the central dynamo without grabbing the power bomb pickup there; the door behind the bendezium is not locked, just as we thought.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: devan123 | Posted: 1/26/2003 6:07:57 PM
bumpity
---
My website: http://devan123.hyerboards.com Flockman's: http://flockman.hyperboards.com/
From: Incinerator | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:13:48 PM
Amasawa, you forgot the Wavebuster. The Wavebuster also does no damage to Thardus. Or did you guys not know you could get the Wavebuster before Thardus...? When I posted it about a month and a half ago, nobody at all cared v_v
---
World's Biggest Toejam and Earl Fan!©
"I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer." -Frank Herbert, Dune
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 7:28:30 PM
yeah, we knew about it. I took a picture of it not long ago and posted the link in another thread, actually.

and yeah, I could have sworn somebody besides Hamm mentioned it, I was so sure there were at least two people I saw talking about it, so now I know I wasn't crazy. Scratch that... now I know I wasn't wrong.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:22:06 PM
Holy crap, what did i miss? lol

If devilbit says getting across the platform in fungal hall A, then you don't need the grapple beam at all. The other time you're supposed to use it is Metroid Quarantine B (i think) and i found a way around it last night.

You have to jump into the phazon pit below and head for the little phazon piece farthest to the right. Then you jump on it, and space jump to the wall that is sticking out most into the pit. You can easily make it. After the first time i made it, i made it in another 2 attempts.

And i don't think the grapple beam is required for an aritifact. The only thing i can think of is that training grounds room in chozo, but i think you might be able to tbj in the lava off that submerged platform (most likely a 1 shot attempt) but i believe it's possible.

And i have no clue how to get past that spider ball track in metroid quarantine A either kip.

Now i have to look back through all the posts to see what i missed =p Plasma > thardus = O_O
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:33:07 PM
After re-reading that stuff, i realize my metroid quarantine b tip isn't needed. I actually was trying devilbit's sideway jump in fungal hall a last night. At first i started out by leaving 1 metroid alive and then freezing it, and trying to lock on mid jump and do the side boost strafe while almost at the platform. I don't think it works in midair though T_T

But it looks pretty likely that we have a 27% game now. I'm going to get started on this right away, looks like i missed out on a huge discussion today =(

Can we get a list of the order all this is done in now? i got confused trying to speed-read the last 50+ posts as to what should be done when.

And does anything else need to be tested? i got some time on my hands =O
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:40:51 PM
Ugh, where'd you guys go =(

Kip- can you compile your plasma beam technique into one post, hints and all?

And now i assume the best way to get plasma > thardus would be after coming out of the gravity suit chamber the back way to thardus, going down, saving, then moving on to the geo thermal core.

We need to get a speed guide going now without using grapple beam listing the order of artifacts at which point they can be attained as well as the approximate time at which it is best to get them. With the way everything is now, the order of stuff is crazy X_X

And i still don't know how we can skip charge / super missile, though i agree that would be the next thing to go. You still need the space jump in a grapple beam less game so that would be necessary.

I need to restart my normal run now because i erased it when testing the "killing flaahgra/refreshing artifact ghosts".
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:44:07 PM
I'm going to start a Normal 27% run game and see how it goes. I think the most important thing to do now is organize items at which they can be first get intertwined with an artifact list. Hopefully we can dedicate to the ultimate speed guide / low % run. An accumulation of everyone's hard work written and submitted by us.

Good idea, yes?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 8:49:39 PM
A quick thought: would it be better to get the power bomb expansion then head through the entrance to the phazon mines? That way you could pick up that artifact from the elite pirate in the glass the first time through. Or would it be easier to come back via the ore processing route? We need to start jotting down times for alternate routes to come up with the best route possible.

Anyways, here's a list of items in order you *should* get them now:

Missiles
Morph Ball
Morph Ball Bombs
Charge Beam
Varia Suit

Boost Ball
Space Jump
Wave Beam
Ice Beam
Super Missiles
Gravity Suit
Plasma Beam
Spider Ball
Power Bomb Expansion?

X-Ray Visor
Phazon Suit/Beam

I think this is correct. Let me get a list of artifacts then go through this and insert them according to items required and room closest to where you are at that point of the game.
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:05:34 PM
I think that's about right banks

I just read through the rest of the thread.. and we should really try to compile this stuff into an faq so people don't have to read thought 400+ posts to find what they're looking for ;)
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:08:24 PM
Speed Run List-

Missiles
Morph Ball
Morph Ball Bombs
Charge Beam
Varia Suit
-Artifact of Nature (blast the pillar in lava lake)

Boost Ball
Space Jump
-Artifact of Strength (warrior shrine)
Wave Beam
Ice Beam
Super Missiles
Gravity Suit
Plasma Beam
Spider Ball
-Artifact of Spirit (storage cave)
-Artifact of Elder (blast the tower)
*NOTE: spirit/elder order may be reversed. depends which way you go into phendrana drifts: double back behind thardus or go back through the research areas. Not sure which way is faster.*
Power Bomb Expansion?
-Artifact of Sun (chozo ice temple, melt ice)
-Artifact of Lifegiver (the one by wavebuster)
-Artifact of Wild (sun chamber)
-Artifact of World (hall of elders, plasma socket)
*i think this is the best order to get these items in?*

X-Ray Visor
-Artifact of Chozo (same room as x-ray)
-Artifact of Warrior (elite pirate guy)
Phazon Suit/Beam
-Artifact of Newborn (the phazon ball path)
-Artifact of Truth (at the temple)

If you think any of this list could be ordered any differently / better, please post your suggestions. But i think this is the best order for speed.
*whew* time to test this out =p
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:22:04 PM
There's only one way i think this could be modified. You'd have to take into account the time taken to get the space jump then going back to phendrana drifts to get the wave beam to the effort taken to get the wave beam before the space jump (if this can be confirmed. I think amasawa got to the top of the chozo ice temple and couldn't make the jump across?)

If you have opinions about that particular sequence, please post them. Super Bowl is over, come on guys! =p
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:44:08 PM
sorry; I was forced to watch Austin Powers 3 against my will, although I was laughing in spite of myself. <=)

yeah, kip and DEVILBIT had quite a day & a half with the game. wow, where to begin... I guess I'll just rattle off stuff as I can think of it.

About the phazon elite: I tried blasting it out of the glass tube with an early power bomb, but strangely enough, it did absolutely nothing. Twice. It seems there's a trigger for it... probably the power bomb pickup in the central dynamo? Would make sense... It's up to you whether you'd rather grab an expansion or the main pickup later, then... you can skip getting the main pickup altogether as long as you're carrying one power bomb before you enter the central dynamo so you can destroy the bendezium blocking the one unlocked exit from the room, and assuming you've already got the x-ray visor since you cann't backtrack from there unless you get the main power bomb pickup... (The shadow drone can be seen w/ x-ray, btw, thanks to Diffusion's suggestion)

About the grapple beam and artifacts -- in Phendrana's edge, there are a couple of grapple points that cross the upper half of the room to get up to just before the top where the secret door is to the artifact. Thanks to DEVILBIT, however, there's a very easy way around this by jumping onto a root that sticks out near the platform you otherwise need to grapple to, so a space jump, a short, careful walk up the top of the root, and another space jump to the platform is all that's needed now. kip's confirmed it works and I followed suit later.

About kip's technique for getting plasma b4 Thardus: I'm sure he'd do a great job of compiling everything into one post; his advice worked great for me and he was able to add additional info when I asked questions. If he's not around/not able and you want it sooner, I could put something together in one post for you paraphrasing his help though, since I know what to look for. No problem either way; it's up to you.

About crossing fungal hall a w/o the grapple-- I've tried using DEVILBIT's technique but haven't had any luck so far, and I suspect that I probably have no idea how to do it correctly. <:-) I have to get back to that point again because I didn't save at that point, but it shouldn't take too long.

About the ice temple, yeah, I did make it up to the cliff and think I might be able to do it again, but I had no luck getting very far up inside the temple once I got to the dish; the jumping w/o space jump seems very messed up to me in that it doesn't go as high as the first jump does after you've got the boots. I'm not sure why this is yet.

About confirming, everything is good! :) I'm sure confirming being able to pass everything without grapple would be especially cool...

---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 9:47:04 PM
sorry, meant to clarify about that power bomb expansion that it's up to you since you're talking about a low percentage and don't want to get more than one power bomb pickup, but be aware that there might be a risk in that it's possible the main bomb powerup may be the trigger to allow the glass to break. More experimentation there is necessary, so that would definitely be a great thing to confirm.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:10:10 PM
Well amawasa, i suppose space jump > wavebeam will remain the same then. Even if it were possible, it might just be easier to get space jump first. Because i'm lazy when it comes to a series of difficult manuevers that i would have to reset multiple times on if i didn't do it fast enough.

But the thing about not getting that artifact without the main power bomb pick up interests me. I might have to try getting the phazon suit first, then blowing up the tank. Hopefully that would resolve that issue. Otherwise, you'd have to take the time to go through the crashed frigate, as well as the whole beginning section of the phazon mines.

And i have been working on the grappleless games for awhile now, and i was pretty close to achieving success, so i'm not worried about DEVILBIT's method. I will have to try it out when i get there. Do the artifact lists look correct? minus the power bomb one.

And another question. If you never get the power bomb expansion, do those ice beam troopers still appear? would be kind of nifty if they didn't.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:13:15 PM
er, that last sentence. power bomb expansion = the main power bomb pickup =p

and a question kip had earlier: i think that 7:00 is the fastest time you can get when exiting the frigate at the beginning of the game. You should be exiting the ship with about 3:30 left on the timer.
From: DARK SIDE | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:15:59 PM
If you can get X-ray before the mines then can you see the invisi-drone thing?
---
"Do not remove plastic disc from top of Gamecube or poisonous gas will be released."
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:29:28 PM
I agree wholeheartedly about the space jump.

Yes, that's a great idea to test getting the Warrior artifact after the Phazon suit. Your reasoning on why it's important makes sense to me too.

Cool, I'm glad you've got the practice without using the grapple beam. I totally suck at that and can't see my way clear to doing it now, so I'm very hopeful that someone else will come up with a nice consistent technique that I can learn. :)

*looks at the artifact list more closely

Hey, how about waiting to get the gravity suit until you go for the artifact of spirit? You're going out that way anyway for both; might as well not jog back in between for the plasma beam, but just get that and the spider ball first. I think everything else looks great afaik.

If you leave the room by clearing the bendezium with a power bomb expansion without destroying the shadow drone, it will always be there when you come back and jump up close to the door you came in through originally, so yes, those ice pirates will never show up. There's no point in defeating the drone anyway since the other doors don't unlock unless you get the main power bomb pickup, so you have to be able to count on not being able to backtrack through the central dynamo and not being able to use the save room that's nearby in order to skip it.

---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:30:43 PM
If you can get X-ray before the mines then can you see the invisi-drone thing?

Yes. Diffusion asked this question earlier and I tried it out to get the answer.
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:41:05 PM
"There's no point in defeating the drone anyway since the other doors don't unlock unless you get the main power bomb pickup, so you have to be able to count on not being able to backtrack through the central dynamo and not being able to use the save room that's nearby in order to skip it."

So if you want to get the power bomb expansion instead of getting the main power bomb pick up (if it's still possible to get the artifact) you have to skip by the save room / drone so you can continue on to the metroid quarantine areas? If that's the case, it may be better to just go through the frigate and get the main power bomb so you can use that save room (assuming doing the jumps on top of phazon with only 99 energy would be highly risky without dying once).

About the gravity suit: it depends on how much faster you can kill thardus using the plasma beam instead. If it's like 10 minutes faster, it may be easier to get the plasma beam first then backtrack (not sure though)

So you go into the research area, get th esuper missile, backtrack, kill thardus, go get the plasma beam, get the artifacts / gravity suit, then head back to the chozo ruins?

What do you guys think about that timewise? It prolly would be a better strategy to do it that way, but not as cool =p
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:50:19 PM
Good point about the riskiness of skipping the main powerbomb pickup. I don't think I'd be crazy enough to try that. <:)

Well, the plasma beam really does take out Thardus quite fast. Three charged shots on Hard for each spot, instant destruction of those boulders, at the decent rate of fire the plasma beam has -- he becomes so easy it's truly laughable. I'm not sure if that's ten minutes or not, though. It would be easier to get the plasma beam after the spider ball, but if you can get kip's tech down well it would also be quicker, which would make up for some of the lost time backtracking as well. Either way I don't recommend making a separate trip for the grav suit unless you think you really need it. Anyway, I'll leave it at that and let you experiment as well as confer with the experts. :)
---
"BTW super metroid was 100 hours so [Metroid Prime's] a terrible downgrade because of the 3D " -- ZACKN, GameFAQs forums
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:56:11 PM
Damn...I go away for two days, and I miss tons of stuff (about 8 pages). Someone want to recap the newest tricks and stuff since Amasawa's method of getting Plasma after Thardus?

-Tim
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 10:59:38 PM
i guess we can see what kip thinks, but the backtracking may prove to be too tedious and lengthy for the sake of an easier boss fight. But not sure, less time farming boulders for hit points and taking out pieces may be better. Kip is more of an expert on time, i should wait for his response.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:00:44 PM
"Tim- Yup, it's Cordite. Just wondering, is your FAQ only for those going for 80-100% fast? And what is your best time for Normal or Hard with 100% after beating the final boss? You might have a GameFAQs record..."

I wrote it so anyone could pick the guide up and use it to get through, but most of the tricks are for advanced players. As for timestamps, my best time for Normal is 100% with 3:41, and Hard kicks up at 4:29.

-Tim
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:02:20 PM
haha...

1. Plasma beam before thardus
2. Quite possibly 27%, no grapple beam

those are the 2 major ones I can think of..
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:15:38 PM
It figures that I would finish the whole item-redesignation segment for the Plasma after Thardus...OK, someone lay it out for me quickly on how to get Plasma before Thardus (more importantly, how to get to Geothermal Core and not have the Spiderball to get up the first vertical track (I've read about the Space Jump to the ledge part already)...but more info would help.

-Tim
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:17:35 PM
ok, plasma beam before thardus:

1) go get ice beam with tbj, go to frozen pike through the back way in pirate base (get gravity suit if you like)

2) go to magmoor elevator, go to geothermal core

3) use amasawa's method of space jumping to the first spinner platform

4) when you get to the spinner with a spider ball track, space jump on the bump of it, then space jump again to land on the upper part of the platform (might take a few tries)

5) after you make the big spider ball track appear, jump on top of the first track piece, then turn and look at the ice door that goes to the plasma beam (move near the wall too)

6) run off or space jump off toward the door. you will land on a thin metal line that goes across the room. walk to the last few pieces of track (the square shaped ones you can move all the way around with the spider ball).

7) find the lowest track piece (with a light bulb looking thing sticking out), then jump against the wall to give yourself extra height, then space jump and land on the top part

8) space jump to the top of the next highest piece, repeat until you're at the last one. space jump to the ice door. once you have plasma beam, do whatever.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:20:33 PM
Sweet kip, i'll go check it out right now. Take a look at my item/artifact order list and tell me what you think.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:30:23 PM
K, I'm gonna go attempt this one. I'll report back soon ;)
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:32:51 PM
What's the best way to space jump off the bump? i can't get enough height =p
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:35:37 PM
yeah, in between trying all this stuff i've been thinking about speed runs too. with all these recent discoveries i have no idea what to do in a hard low % speed run anymore, that's one reason i haven't been playing the actual game, no idea how to do it.

thardus takes a long time in low % (in my last speed run 17 minutes) because you only have 1 super missile at a time and it's easy to miss when you shoot (or have it blocked by his arms). so when we found out about getting the plasma beam first, i was curious if it'd be better to do that and use it on him (i'd imagine the fight would be at least 5 min faster), or just get it after him while you're on your way to the frigate. i don't know which is faster. at least not having to use the big spider ball track would save some good minutes either way, not to mention not having to take a trip just to get it after you get grapple beam.

also... it's confirmed that ice beam + grav before thardus saves time? i think i remember tlj saying it did, about how much time is it? and wouldn't it be better to unlock the door to the furnace before flaahgra, so that when you come back later you don't have to do that every time you want a few shots at getting up the track in case you can't do it and you need to reset?
From: kip | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:37:57 PM
just keep trying. when you get on the bump turn around so you can see how high you're going. i don't remember doing anything special to get up there, it's strange; sometimes you can't do it, sometimes she makes it up there easily. amasawa had a problem with it for a while too IIRC.

you can try to tbj once you get on the bump, but i haven't been able to do it, but i also didn't try very hard. the problem is it's hard to stay on the bump after you start putting the bombs down.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:45:50 PM
Good God Kip, you're a genius. It took me about three tries (mostly cause the black and yellow grid was making me dizzy while jumping) but I made it up and to Plasma Processing without using the Spider Ball.

"Damn" is all I can say....Good work man!

-Tim
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:47:36 PM
OK I JUST GOT IT and i think i know what the problem is. You will NOT make it if you time your space jump perfectly; that is, start your second jump just as you reach the height of your first jump. You need to wait a little bit just before you finish your jump/reach the highest height THEN do your second jump.

I think this has a direct relationship with the triple bomb jump. Momentum + 2nd bump / bomb burst = higher height. That is, it's not necessarily how high you can place your bombs, or how high you are when you start your second jump, but rahter the speed you are going when you start it. When you jump you are going pretty fast till you reach the upper 90% of your jump, then you begin to slow down. what i think is if you do it during this period, your second burst does not go as high because you're doing it off of a slower part of the jump, even though you are higher up. You get a much higher return on the second jump if you do if do it right before you hit that slower mark.

Same with bomb jumping. if you place that 6th bomb a little closer to your 5th bomb, and you have some good momentum going off of your 5th, you will ultimately get higher with your 6th. It baffled me as to why i would i get super close to the hole in the furnace after what i thought was a poorly placed bomb sequence, but now i think i know why.

Do you guys understand that? =p
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:52:59 PM
Provided you get the Ice Beam on the first try, and follow the standard path until that point, i.e. the Space Jump after Flaahgra, it cuts between 35 and 45 minutes off, though about 10 are negated by a return trip to the Crossway to get the Missile Expansion (if you're still going for 100% like me).

-Tim
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/26/2003 11:53:37 PM
Something kind of interesting i noticed: when you get to that firs tbottom piece of track, you can wedge yourself between the ground and the track.

If you were going to go through this after thardus, you could prolly activate the spider ball at that point and do the track from there.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:01:03 AM
yeah, it's also easy to morph and single bomb jump to the bottom part of that part and grab on, then do the rest normally.

if that saves 35 to 45 minutes, then i think under 3:30 is possible in hard low % (dunno about under 3 hours, the last boss is at least 20 minutes by himself, and thardus takes forever without plasma beam).

also, what's this stuff about grabbing a power bomb expansion? is this in place of the power bomb? that means you could never use the central dynamo save point or go back through it after you enter since all other doors are locked besides the one to metroid quarantine A... does it still work out?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:03:44 AM
I got a pretty nice / efficient method for getting up that bump. Face semi left *outw ards* from the bump and hold L. While jumping, hold left so you hug the track to get extra height, and when you get to the outcrop, immediately hold forward/right to pop out the side. i got this to work twice in a row so far, try it out and see how it works.

Awesome method kip

There was an error posting your message:The message you entered appears to contain one of the words that GameFAQs has deemed inappropriate for use under any circumstances.
The only acceptable means of using this word is to completely block it out (i.e. "****"). Partial blocking, misspelling, or other attempts to use the word is considered a censor bypass, and a severe TOS violation.

Banned word found: *o u t w a r*

????
outw ards is a censored word?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:06:40 AM
"also, what's this stuff about grabbing a power bomb expansion? is this in place of the power bomb? that means you could never use the central dynamo save point or go back through it after you enter since all other doors are locked besides the one to metroid quarantine A... does it still work out?"

You can skip the crashed frigate by going through the phazon mines the backway via magmoor using a power bomb expansion obtained in phendrana drifts. But the problem is you can't use that save point, which is risky when you have to make it past 2 phazon pit -grapple beam rooms before the next save point. Also amasawa said that this power bomb does not work to activate the elite pirate fight to get the artifact there. But we haven't tried doing that after getting the phazon suit.
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:07:01 AM
I saw a topic on that before. Apperently "******" is censored...No idea why. There is a game called "******s"
---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:08:03 AM
Sorry, I didn't finish what I was saying. *Slaps himself*...I was just saying that it shouldn't be bypassed, what if I was referring to that game?
---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:13:00 AM
Looks like I'll be back at editing tomorrow. Someone email me if you make bigger discoveries - I'll be pretty preoccupied with other stuff besides Prime for about four days.
I'd love to someday see a sub-two hour run for Prime...heheh.

-Tim
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:19:49 AM
"then jump against the wall to give yourself extra height, then space jump and land on the top part"

kip- which part of the wall do you jump against? i can't find a place where i can get more height to start my space jump =(
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:25:26 AM
just the wall where the track pieces are attached to (the lowest piece since that's the one you want to jump on). when your press against the wall when you jump you should be getting more height.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:27:18 AM
still not sure if it's better to get the plasma beam right before or after thardus in hard low % speed run (i think i would do before).

also one of you guys needs to make a new topic for all our discovery/speed run etc talk, this one will hit 500 and close soon.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:32:32 AM
Should i make that thread right now kip?
What should we title it as? Plasma Beam before Thardus and Other Tricks? or what?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:38:54 AM
the wall to the left or the right of the lowest piece?
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:46:03 AM
don't go to the other side of the piece, use the other wall (in other words when you land on the metal line, just keep walking until you get to the piece, don't go past it, then jump against that wall).

name the thread whatever... just as long as we can continue having good discussions like this without having to keep explaining to people without a clue who would go "nope d00d j00 need teh spid3r b411 to get teh p14$m4 b34m!!!!!!".

i don't think it should be particularly something that catches attention, like "plasma before thardus and other tricks". how about, ice beam + gravity suit before thardus part 2 even, or something. i don't know.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:52:19 AM
well we don't have to do it tonight, this thread should be good by the time i'm done with school tomorrow. I'll think of the title of it then, explain a little about the initial topic, list the tricks we've discovered,credit those who've worked hard to break down this game, and then leave it open for further discussion.

And hopefully i'll get to the top of the lower track piece by then too =p
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:53:22 AM
oh and kip, how much did your video capture card cost you. I was thinking about making video samples of every trick we do and link it in the topic / faq (if we make one)...
From: Cpt Izumi | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:00:57 AM
woohoo i'm post #475, almost 500! good job banks and kip and all the rest of you for such discoveries
---
it's a BUMPY road (ha ha)
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:01:30 AM
sorry if my explanation of that track piece is no good. amasawa had trouble with it for a while too, but once i told him about jumping against the wall it seems like he got it pretty easily... maybe he can chip in too.

my first vid card was 80 something after everything and it ended up not working. i'm getting a different one (about the same price), and i just hope this one works because i really would prefer visual explanations for some of these things. still not 100% sure what kind of cables/things i need to hook everything up though (i wanna do it in s video since my tv can do it, but i think the gamecube needs a special cable that doesn't come with it to play in sivdeo).

also did any of you guys make the jump in fungal hall A besides devilbit? someone needs to finish the game without grapple just to be sure... i might be up for it but it'd be a hard 27% speed run, would take a while since i have no idea how to go through the game now (get plasma before thardus or not? what artifact order? etc.).
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:09:14 AM
kip- i'm pretty sure i can make that jump in fungal; i've made the one in metroid quarantine with my own method.

You can purchase a nintendo s-video cable for around 14.95 i believe. I have one for my ps2 but not for gamecube. How does the output work with the video capture card? how does it take the image from teh television and draw it into your computer? Does your tv have an output device? does it intercept the gamecube feed and bypass it to the computer?

Oh and i posted an item / artifact list earlier in the thread. I think it's near ideal for a speed run, so you should check it out and see if it's good.

I'll test the fungal A tonight, and will post my results sometime tomorrow morning. If i can get that, i'll definitely work on getting the plasma beam before thardus. and once i've done THAT, i'll continue my speed run. 00:17:00 after getting charge beam, before morph ball bombs.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:22:48 AM
i was about to say shouldn't you get phendrana's edge the first time you enter there (on way to grav), but i just remembered you need power bomb... so i guess it has to wait until late game. maybe control tower should wait until late game too since you'd have phazon suit and you can run through more easily without a chance of dying (in low %).

other than that it looks pretty much perfect, except i dunno about getting the chozo ruins artifacts before x-ray visor. the ghosts are still easy, but wouldn't they take longer to beat? still though, maybe it's not as much longer as i'd think it is.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:38:16 AM
well i guess i'll start on a hard 27% speed run and get to about thardus, then i need to really think exactly what i'm gonna do (i'll get plasma beam first, but not 100% on artifact order yet).

with devil may cry 2 coming out like tomorrow though i have a feeling i'll get sidetracked again and the speed run won't get done for a while.
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:41:09 AM
Hmm... procrastinating on a speed run! How very hypocritical!

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:42:35 AM
haha, yeah i guess it's somewhat of an oxymoron or something. =P
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 1/27/2003 1:48:33 AM
Maybe you will be too engrossed in helping the public that you will forget about DMC2? And obey my bold part of sig next time you post anything, please. It's new.

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 2:02:03 AM
ok, i've been jumping on that piece of track again and trying to pin down what i'm doing to land on it.

i go to the debris or whatever that is next to the wall while facing the piece with the light bulb thing, then i lock direction with L. i jump against the debris/wall and move back slightly while pushing against it, then i space jump a little before the peak of the jump (so you get more height like what you were saying banks). then i just get enough height that i can land on the top part of the track without much trouble. i don't think you can land on the light bulb thing.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 2:15:42 AM
also, curious what you guys think the best way of getting back to main quarry is after getting power bomb (so you can get x-ray visor and chozo artifact), now that we don't need grapple beam.

get phazon elite and walk back to main quarry while fighting the beam pirates, or go back to ore processing and ride up to the top where the grapple beam is, then space jumping to waste disposal and taking that way?

what's depressing is you couldn't go straight from main quarry to level 2 anymore without grapple beam, so you'd have to waste a lot of time going through level 1 once you pick up x-ray visor, unless there's another way of doing this?
From: Diffusion | Posted: 1/27/2003 7:02:27 AM
Well, I'm late. After hearing about the X-Ray Visor/Shadow Drone trick, I just started a speed run myself. Dashed through (100% scans, unfortunately) and played the game in its normal order, but got the Plasma Beam immediately before the Gravity Suit. My discoveries:

1. When you pick up the Power Bomb expansion, it says "Power Bomb ammunition acquired" in a strange yellowish font.

2. I was playing w/hints just for fun - I love the way the game talks about locations. Don't do this while using the hint system. No, it doesn't freeze the game, but it madly screws up the order of hints. I got the "spectral analysis complete" thing, then "distress beacons," then "source of mobile Phazon located" (funny, because I hadn't visited the mines yet and it had only one room on my map), then "active transport located." Guess it has to do with items.

3. You normally can't use the Plasma Beam on Aqua Drones, but guess what it does - nothing special. Just the normal Plasma Beam drone death animation.

4. In a 100% run, it saves obscene (and I mean obscene) amounts of time if done properly. My current route, and I'm going to refine this, is:

Standard Game

Ice Beam

Plasma Beam

Gravity Suit (E-Tank near there, too, so 11 tanks before the Mines)

Finish lower Phendrana by going through Quarantine Cave/get Power Bombs

Artifact of Strength

Ice Spreader

Triclops Pit (little discovery for me - you can get this Missile Expansion with a very, very well timed Space Jump)

Lava Lake

Sunchamber

West Chozo Ruins (the part after the Ruined Fountain)

Up to Great Tree Hall

Get X-Ray, Missile Expansion

Go to Tallon Overworld, Crashed Frigate

Phazon Mines, first time (I'm not sure how to do this. It seems possible to complete it all in one run, except Artifact of Warrior)

Omega Pirate, artifact of Newborn

Up to Magmoor, to upper Phendrana (finish it, get Missile Expansion in QM)

Go up through Root Cave and finish w/2 Missile Expansions there.

This doesn't even require much skill - the "poor man's speed run", if you will. The "jump on pointy ledge" method of getting the Plasma Beam worked perfectly. Thanks again!

---
She dates losers. I mean, what kind of guy gets it for "attempted" rape? - doomsdays
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 7:49:17 AM
so you skipped the grapple beam then? you never mentioned it. and you were doing 100% scans not items?
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 1/27/2003 8:11:25 AM
Hi.
For the people trying pass the mines withouth you should read the previous posts about it, so to not repeat what was stayed.

Read the spacejump tip previously posted, KIP already did QUARENTINE using the tip, so far hes only problem is FUNGAL A. Fungal A can be done using the trick but it takes some tries. 1st look down so you can get as much space as posible for the jump.
2. jump straight.
3.the aplly the turning, fast. i do it from left to right. Again remember Quake.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 8:15:49 AM
hey devilbit, any tips for space jump before flaahgra while you're at it? i still keep sliding off the ledge when i get up.

also, have you ever gotten there from the ship? i've tried to tbj and morph off the back and i can get insanely close to the ledge behind it, but i can't land on it.
From: The Leech | Posted: 1/27/2003 10:24:07 AM
I give up.

I cannot get pushed up by the 5th bomb! I pray that you guys make a video. ._.
---
*Total Darkness* Ya know, when one sense can't function, the others enhance. p00p iz teh f00ney wurd! ¬_¬ I stand corrected.
From: ganonl | Posted: 1/27/2003 10:28:26 AM
post 490.

countdown to 500.

---
"The true warrior enters the arena with all his powers at the ready" -Akuma
"FOOL!! I spit at thee" -Pious
From: zell99 | Posted: 1/27/2003 11:12:40 AM
wow guys... i've missed so much..!

1. Go ahead and make a Part 2, it's worth it.
2. I really think you should list all the tricks and stuff into a FAQ or at least a website for easy reference. If anyone can type everything in a .txt file, I can easily make it into an organised webpage and host it. I think it's worth it! (and I read all the posts but I did not find the part on how to get plasma without spider ball... I read the "no grapple beam" part (jumping on little ledges) but for spider ball.. O_o)
3. Continue the good work. I can't follow you anymore, you're too insane!
---
BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: SSJHonky | Posted: 1/27/2003 11:13:20 AM
You're right...
(almost at 500!!)
---
-= Metroid Prime Ownz =- Yep, you heard me.
Yes you're right, Preparation H does feel good on the hole
From: zell99 | Posted: 1/27/2003 11:23:17 AM
Also... try making videos! I guess I could try to do some vids.. but for that, I'd need all the tricks sorted in a webpage ;)

493?
---
BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 11:28:51 AM
i've already made all this into a file (for my own reference). i wouldn't mind sending it to someone so that they could put it in as a faq and make whatever changes they feel would be good (like... no review of the game, nothing about the story, nothing unnecessary that inflates the file size for no reason).

as for plasma beam without spider ball, check page 46, it's the first post there (if you have it set to 10 posts per page anyway). also, all you guys who shared an interest or took part in discussions, or helped me out with something or ever thought outside the box ("do you really need so and so item?"), i really appreciate it.
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 11:32:44 AM
"Also... try making videos!"

zell, i would've made a video of every single trick already, but i'm in a mess of a situation about that. there are a lot of things i need to find out, but i don't know much about video capturing (same with everyone i know). do you? if you do, i have some questions... =]
From: zell99 | Posted: 1/27/2003 11:44:06 AM
kip- I don't know much.. but I have a webcam and can film my TV screen while I play so it's easy (no sound though..) and it's in .mov format which is HUGE and I need to know how to change it to .avi or .mpeg to compress them..

and would you mind sending me your tricks file? I would put all this into a webpage... I think it would be good for everyone, and I could put pics, vids, anything...

send it there please: geedubois@hotmail.com
I'll try doing that webpage as soon as I can and i'll give you all news about it. and I'll try to pull off some tricks, videotape them and put them on my computer.
---
BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: kip | Posted: 1/27/2003 11:51:50 AM
okay, i'll send it soon. ask me anything if you have trouble doing one of those, as long as i know i should be able to help (haven't been able to do space jump before flaahgra and wave beam before space jump yet though; only devilbit did the former, and no one IIRC actually did the latter although devilbit and amasawa got into the ice temple).

i don't know how else we can break the game down (it has to end somewhere), but i guess we'll see if the next thread yields anything.
From: ForeverZer0 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:27:13 PM
MUH WAHHHA POST 500 FOR ME!!k
From: ForeverZer0 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:27:27 PM
I am going to get it, 499!!
From: ForeverZer0 | Posted: 1/27/2003 12:27:39 PM
YES, a 500 POST FOR ME!!