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Ice Beam + Gravity Suit before Thardus using Triple Jump (v. 3.0)

Archived by

Vigama

From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/31/2003 7:00:00 PM
Yep, this is the 3rd thread of the topic where the non-linearity of the game came into the public eye (thanks to Banks!). The tricks discovered include getting the ice beam, gravity suit, plasma beat, etc before Thardus, getting the space jump before flaaghra, getting numerous missile expansions out of order, getting the wavebuster early, entering the phazon mines without going through the frigate, beating the game without the grapple beam, and much much more! To learn how to do these tricks, go to:
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 7:01:47 PM
Credit goes to where it's deserved. Everyone who started the initial Triple Bomb Jump talk, kip, amasawa, devilbit, tlj, and others. If you have questions about the method used on the web site, as well as ideas or experiments of your own, please post them here.
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 7:07:37 PM
and we have free cake and punch for eveyone :)
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 7:12:42 PM
Oh, and i must thank l2ag3 for his new and easier method of getting into the furnace pipe. Just found today =p
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: VGS | Posted: 1/31/2003 7:19:09 PM
Hey, good job on the site. :-)

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GamingWorldX.com - So Many Games, So Little Time
From: Cyberclaw | Posted: 1/31/2003 7:57:16 PM
Yeah, you guys have done some pretty amazing things.
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<(**)>
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:01:31 PM
I just read what I think was l2ag3's method for getting the Ice Beam. I swear, that was so frickin' ingenious; completely in the "Now WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?!" category. :)
From: sevensc | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:03:35 PM
is it ok if i rip off your site and make something like this if i give all credit to the right people?

http://primediscoveries.tripod.com

only the techniques section has some info and stuff but all the links work. if you want me to destroy this before i go anyfurther, just say so, and i might.
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:06:16 PM
you can put my technique there as long as you give me lots of credit :). LOTS DAMNIT, LOTS!
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:34:16 PM
Do you need the super missile to destroy the pillar in the Triclops pit? Or will a couple of normal missiles break it open for the missile expansion.
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:35:49 PM
normal missiles work there.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Malos | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:40:55 PM
banks17: what was his method? i beat the plant dude and got the wave beam and space boots. i'm in the furnace place. i have an energy tank and 10 missiles (is that good or bad... some people here want to get low percentages, some want high) i need help !
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:46:59 PM
whos method?
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:47:28 PM
WOOHOO!!!!! GO l2ag3!!!!
It took me about 1 minute to get his method down, and more than an hour before I managed to do a crappy tbj... I better watch zell's video again.
Also about space jump, please please please don't let the tiny little pebble behind the ship be the rock you're supposed to tbj off of for space jump b4 flaahgra... please (sob)
PS: Oh, btw, nice witty 500th post on v 2.0, banks
PPS: Can I have some of that punch and cake?
---
Congratulations! You have won $1,000,000 from a lottery you didn't enter!! Send me $240,000 to pay the taxes and claim the prize!!
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:50:48 PM
only if your feeling specail
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:51:05 PM
doing tbj's seem alot easier now that i don't have to do it =p
I just got into the furnace right after getting the morph ball bombs because i wanted to see if i could use the track jump without space jump. Looks like i can't but tbj always works =p
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:53:37 PM
about space jump, please please please don't let the tiny little pebble behind the ship be the rock you're supposed to tbj off of for space jump b4 flaahgra... please (sob)

LOL. That sounds like me, every day that I remember all over again just how insane the conditions for that jump are, right before Gunpei Yokoi's ghost sticks his head out of the GCN and starts laughing at me again.

hey Banks, you're going for maximum items before Thardus? That's cool; you're gonna have even more of a field day with him. =) I remember getting 125 missiles on one run; I think it's in one of the pics on the site, so I know you can get at least half of 'em, but I think that might have been before this plasma beam before Thardus chicanery. Don't forget about that one you figured out how to get without the grapple beam and the power bomb exp there either (the ones before the training chamber)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:57:02 PM
heh. I'm laughing. ><
I think I'm just gonna pass on that trick... I think I'll stick to easier stuff
PS: I'm feeling very special. Now can I have some cake?
---
Congratulations! You have won $1,000,000 from a lottery you didn't enter!! Send me $240,000 to pay the taxes and claim the prize!!
From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:57:47 PM
also, who's Gunpei Yokoi, and why is his ghost laughing at you?
---
Congratulations! You have won $1,000,000 from a lottery you didn't enter!! Send me $240,000 to pay the taxes and claim the prize!!
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:58:13 PM
does plasma beam hurt thardus?
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: keybladeswordsman | Posted: 1/31/2003 8:58:57 PM
dbj off the rock in front of the ship? Are you kidding? I get better chances dbjm off the back of the ship. Please tell me an easier way to get there because I'm going to Phendrana w/o the varia suit. Thank whoever can help
From: Malos | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:01:17 PM
12ag3, i need help with ur ice beam spider track method. i can stay up there, and almost got in the hole once, but the boost ball flings me down to the ground....????
From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:05:30 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:06:20 PM
dont charge up the boost ball to the max, just as little as possable. make sure your tilting the control stick the right way too.
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:13:05 PM
Oops, I just realised what you meant. (...I think... O_o)
You don;t need the boost ball. I didn't use it at all to get into the furnace. Just aim towards the hole and you'll go in.
---
Congratulations! You have won $1,000,000 from a lottery you didn't enter!! Send me $240,000 to pay the taxes and claim the prize!!
From: sevensc | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:13:23 PM
will someone kill me if i rip off the other site and make one like this, if so, i better go hire some ninjas....

http://primediscoveries.tripod.com
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:24:30 PM
In regards to the earlier post about whether or not the plasma beam hurts Thardus....heheheh...it not only hurts him, it makes mincemeat of him. Just like the Ice beam, a single shot from the plasma will take out those boulders he sends at you...and 3 charged plasma shots can take out a blue glowing joint. Thardus no likey the Plasma :)
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:28:41 PM
"PS: Oh, btw, nice witty 500th post on v 2.0, banks
"

Yeah, i didn't want some guy bumping 5 posts just so he could go: YAY 500 POST FO ME PLZ K THX~

And should my little *get everything before thardus guide* include artifacts?
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:33:27 PM
well artifacts are "something"s arnt they?
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:43:22 PM
Alright, i guess i'll have to modify my order some then. (like not getting the wavebuster untill you've gotten the gravity suit, etc.)
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:49:37 PM
why dont you put the artifacts in a different section? just put where they would be in the main part of the faq (like "get this artifact between super missles and thermal visor" or something)
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"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: sevensc | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:53:06 PM
in case you guys havent noticed: http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
is too wide for 800x600 so i am making a site that works for all resolutions. its the one in my sig. check it as see if it is even worth my time.
---
~tips, tricks and other things i didn't make up myself~
http://primediscoveries.tripod.com
From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:55:36 PM
Anyone who is newbie enough to use 800x600 doesn't deserve to read it =P
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: sevensc | Posted: 1/31/2003 9:58:16 PM
i dont use it and i ain't no newb.
---
~tips, tricks and other things i didn't make up myself~
http://primediscoveries.tripod.com
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:01:12 PM
The more and more we break down this game, the more like it seems it was intentional. Like getting the wavebuster without the spider ball. The track just HAPPENS to hang down low so you can jump on it.
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~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:05:20 PM
i started to wonder that when i was gettin the plasma beam early. there just HAPPENS to be a box AND a pillar you can stand on, which has a jump thats JUST far enough to land on one of the platforms, AND being able to walk around the edges and being able to jump on the square thing to get to the door.
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:15:30 PM
Wow... Thank you and congratulations to Kip, Amasawa, DEVILBIT, zell99, and all the rest. I've been following this since the first topic was just started and I must say that these discoveries are absolutely amazing! Hats off to everyone involved!
...Sorry about that. Anyway, I just had something to add, (Thanks to l2ag3) concerning the furnace spider track.

On my way through my first and rather relaxed attempt at 27%, I was trying out l2ag3's method and came across something entirely by accident. While I was setting up as he described, I began to WALK UP the black border on the left side of the spider track. Surpised, I faltered and fell to the ground, but upon re-locating the spot I was able to repeatedly back away and turn around, hten find the spot again within a few seconds, even though it is rather precise.
To walk the track the center of the black "border" on the left must be in the center of the screen. Once you have found the right spot, all you do is hold forward until you are high enough jump off, morph, and roll in. Once the spot is found, the walk is simple, and feels a lot like climbing a ladder on a computer FPS.
The main reason I brought this up is the potential for MORE glitched spider tracks. This piece was most likely reused on other straight, vertical spider tracks, and if we're lucky, they made very few desings and modified them accordingly. Hopefully...
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:18:17 PM
*feels proud that his discovery may of found another discovery :D*
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:21:38 PM
Dude, rage, you're the total epitome of ignorant. You've taken your discovery to a whole new level, as if it makes you some omnipotent being or something. It's been mentioned in pretty much every one of your posts since it was discovered, as if you haven't reminded everyone enough already. Look at banks, kip, amasawa, etc, they don't go around bragging and such, they just keep on crackin, because they're team players. You however, would like to find one thing, pretend you're the next incarnation of jesus, and sit around and wait for people to praise you. I know that you'll deny the credibility of everything I'm saying, but hopefully at least one person will see my point ;p
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:23:19 PM
i see your point, but usualy i just end up being useless instead of finding this things out, but dont worry, ill shut up now
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"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Phediuk | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:39:14 PM
*praises I2ag3 just to annoy funkytoad*
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.
From: funkytoad | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:40:08 PM
You did nothing more than waste your own time.
---
ABICDEAFGHMIJKSLMNAOPQTRSTAUVWNXYZ
http://www.dallasmac.com/acc/catalog.php?user=137
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:40:37 PM
Hey, finally got my contributor name changed (didn't know there were already like 10 variants of the name "Tim" ^_^

Banks, what is this Track Jump you're talking about? Maybe I missed something...

Also, to the person who asked earlier - the Plasma Beam eats Thardus alive. I killed him in roughly 2 minutes with it.

-Tim

---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:45:55 PM
It's the left side of the Furnace spider track. The discoveries surrounding it have opened a theory of more spider tracks with walkable/standable/jump-offable borders.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:49:53 PM
tlj: l2ag3 found an Incredibly easy way to get into the furnace without triple bomb jump. He faced the track, turned slight to the left so he could se some of the wall, then pushed forward and began to space jump. You should see the spider ball track shake in this view. What happens is, as you jump, you catch onto the siding of the spider ball track and get a foothold on something you shouldn't, and are able to jump to the very top. At that point, you morph into ball form, and boost yourself into the hole. try it!
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:51:13 PM
A) I finally got my TBJ up the furnace down after getting ball and bombs...Then went on to discover I wasted thirty minutes of bomb-jumping to get to a wave beam door without the wave beam.
B) I'm not sure if it would be neater if this was intentional so the designers could watch us like lab rodents and discover TBJ, or if this was all just some strange coincidences. The Spiderball tracks sounds like a glitch, but as some others pointed out, that ONE little rock right there for early space jump, those coincidental platforms for early plasma...It may be too big of a "Whaddaya know, X platform is right there so we can get Y item early!". I think maybe they didn't plan on early P-bombs, tho, because it doesn't open the Phazon Elite container. I think Amasawa or Tim said that...?
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:57:51 PM
Re: Power Bomb issue
Amasawa brought it up first, and I merely confirmed it. But it seems to be the general consensus that much of the game was designed to be speed broken (like all the platforms you mentioned).

Thanks a lot banks! I'm off to attempt that now.

-Tim

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<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 1/31/2003 10:58:41 PM
I think some people did it without asking and it was over-looked just like we did for so long. I think this would explain the "expansion before P-Bombs", because if everyone there knew all possibilties would be tested so nothing too strange could happen.
---
Defying Metriod Prime's Linearity:
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid/
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:02:42 PM
Or perhaps play testing did catch some of the more odd things, but Retro decided to leave them in as Easter Eggs for obsessed players to find. Who knows? I would love to get 15 minutes talking to the designers though. Wouldn't that be cool, a trip to Texas to visit Retro studios? Nintendo needs to sponsor that kind of thing quickly! :-)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:05:36 PM
why dont we just write them a letter?
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:06:25 PM
!? Where in Texas are they based? (I live in Texas, so...)

-Tim

---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:10:48 PM
I forgot to mention this in my post with A).
After I checked the map and saw the wave beam door, I walked up to it and reflected a Power shot off it because I felt like it and I was kinda disappointed. I turned around, morphed into a ball to go back to the furnace...And it froze.
It was the first time MP has EVER frozen on me. Even Chozo elevator never did anything. I'm wondering if this is due to where I was and when.
BTW, when you go in the Hall of Elders, are there pirates there like the computers said in Phazon Mines? Or just ghosts? If there were pirate diggers there it would be a major step towards designer intention of it. Either that, or they programmed all these things like the heat in Magmoor Caverns getting worse without the intention of it really being used, just for the sake of realism.
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:10:49 PM
can't remember offhand; some peeps were arguing about it here a while back. Houston was one of the two cities suggested, but I have this nagging feeling that it was the other one mentioned that was actually correct. can't remember for sure and am too lazy to find out right now. <:-)
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:12:47 PM
They were arguing Houston or Austin, they were arguing for a while until one realized they'd meant to be typing the other one the whole time. I think it was Austin...
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: namek jin8 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:12:52 PM
IT WORKS!! That method of not using the TBJ to get into the furnace works, I just tried it.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:14:46 PM
Austin! *snaps fingers yeah, I agree with you Mana Knight, I think that was the one they determined was correct. you live anywhere near there, tim? Can you get us any spy photos of the sequel-in-the-making? =)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:17:21 PM
Umm... I don't mean to be obnoxious and draw attention to myself, but there is a third way up the furnace I posted around post 36. It makes me think that there could be other tracks that are glitched in htis manner due to recycling of parts.
---
Defying Metriod Prime's Linearity:
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid/
From: Little Green Yoda | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:17:41 PM
Just went to retrostudios.com. It is in Austin, TX.
---
"Death to the Hunter! Death to all those who oppose us!"
-intergalactic Space Pirates in their pathetic attempt to take over the universe
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:19:54 PM
maybe we shouldnt alert them of these nifty little things we found. what if they dont know? if we told them they would try to avoid it in the sequel and that would suck.
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:20:30 PM
yeah Pyscho Falcon, I saw it and it made me wonder if Banks ever got to try out track jumping/climbing in ore processing. Banks, did you try it out? I saw your post about trying it to get up to the sunchamber but if you tried ore processing I must have missed it in the sea of posts. <=)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:23:42 PM
nah l2ag3, Retro is teh cool developer that r0x0r5. They wouldn't do that... would they? ;^_^ (worries)
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Amasawa | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:27:53 PM
Anyway, to make this sort of on-topic, I found the most useless workaround to climbing the platform without the spider ball before the phazon pit in Metroid Quarantine B today. There's a rock and a ledge above it right across from the door you come in through on the way toward omega pirate, and you can space jump from there to the spider ball track and over to the platform. Might be able to tbj up there; I don't know cuz I never tried it, but talk about doing things the hard way. :-) Did the same thing trying to go the back route to getting into the training chamber yesterday and forgot that the other end of the tunnel was blocked off. Probably need to cut down on Metroid... mmmm, nah. :-)
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:30:17 PM
In an attempt to move on-topic, I'm still wondering about my game freezing and the pirate diggers.
---
"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:30:57 PM
I love that Track Jump. Is it just that track or does it work on other SB tracks (that would be fantastic if you could "walk" up the Sun Tower rails.)?

-Tim

---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:33:15 PM
so far i think thats the only track that does it. it will prolly only work with ones just like it, perfectly straight, but hey, i could be wrong
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:39:14 PM
well im out for the nite, cyah later
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Banks17 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:40:10 PM
As far as i've seen, only that track. I haven't gone to ore processing myself, but zell said he tried, and couldn't get anywhere with it.

I've tried the suntower, and that didn't lead to anything.
The only thing i'm really interested now is a way to get around metroid quarantine A, because then you could almost do everything before thardus (like fight OP)

But since we've had 0 success with that, i'll work on my little *get as much stuff as possible* before thardus game.
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:53:16 PM
No go banks. Not unless we can Track Jump on vertical rails that switch to horizontal and wind around a pillar (like the Ore Processing one), though I wasn't ever able to get my way up half of the track :P
We can keep trying though for Quarantine A, though...

-Tim

---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: chyse728 | Posted: 1/31/2003 11:59:13 PM
hey guys, just pokin my head in and sayin congrats to all, takin a slice of cake, etc., and sayin that (like Psycho Falcon), i too have been observin this since practically the beginning and i think this whole crusade (since it truly seems like one) is A W E S O M E. Also, as kind of a pun on the non-linearity of the game, a possible title for the (layman's opinion of 1337) website could be "Project: Parabola".

sorry about the excessive use of ()'s, but i'm kinda a left-right/top-bottom thinker, and i don't like going back and adding whole new sentences. i know it's a stupid title and all, but
>.<
U
---
"Next time you think nobody cares, try missing a couple payments..."
From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/1/2003 12:08:48 AM
and hey, if you guys need it, i'm right smack in the middle of the mines right now, so i'll just look ahead for any possible road blocks you might come across in the areas to come
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"Next time you think nobody cares, try missing a couple payments..."
From: sevensc | Posted: 2/1/2003 12:21:23 AM
probably noone cares but i can't stand the colour red so i strated to remake the prime discoveries site for my own use and all those other people who hate the over use of red or have a lower resolution monitor:

metroid prime: the discoveries

http://primediscoveries.tripod.com

hope you don't hate it. i will be adding cradits so dont complain.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/1/2003 1:22:57 AM
Amasawa: someone claimed to be able to get the lifegiver artifact without the gravity suit. Is there any other reason to use it? Or do you ahve to get the power bomb expansion to be able to not need it. Check it out
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~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: s742617000027s1 | Posted: 2/1/2003 1:27:50 AM
Just went to retrostudios.com. It is in Austin, TX.

Retro Studios in Austin? Nice, that's where I live.

Nice job on the site zell and everyone else who contributed to it in some way. I haven't done anything yet though...

---
-SHEATH THY BLADE!!! Bands you must listen too: Kreator, Slipknot, Tool, Meshuggah, System of a Down, Exmortem, The Berzerker.
From: Qmark | Posted: 2/1/2003 2:46:49 AM
what codec am I going to need for the TBJ avi? I seem to get a 'nonspecific decompresor error'...

Grrr... I have the hardware set up to do a direct video capture from the GC, but I can't seem to nail that TBJ timing.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/1/2003 6:25:16 AM
banks, unfortunately you do have to get the pbomb exp if you're skipping grav afaik, but I'll try messing around in the frigate w no/grav as soon as I get some time/a game at that point. That's still a great find -- looking forward to hearing about it!
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Querjek | Posted: 2/1/2003 7:26:30 AM
Ooh!
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Avez-vous des jeux-videos?
"I killed the N64, DC, GBC, and soon... the PSX!"- me
From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:11:24 AM
Qmark, download the latest version of DivX that you can from download.com like the site says
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"Next time you think nobody cares, try missing a couple payments..."
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/1/2003 11:04:00 AM
sevensc- if you use 800x600 or if you do a website for 800x600 viewers... it will be HoT for people (most of them) with higher resolution. I use 1280x1024 resolution, that why I built the site 950 pixels large. That way, anyone with 1024 or higher can see it nicely.

And if you rip-off the site, you will clearly say it's a RIP-OFF huh!?
---
BtT: 3:53.77 - HRC: 44,025.3 Ft. - 10MM: 3:27.70
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: sevensc | Posted: 2/1/2003 12:44:37 PM
don't worry zell99. ill make sure everyone knows that most of my info is a rip from your site, and i will add a link to it and i will try to give everyone credit for what they have done. i stiff need to add the credits but the rest is pretty much ready other then the home page. check it out. i mean, you have read it all before, but see if its any good. its designed for a wider range of resolutions, but may be hard to read on really high resolutions.

also, if anyone has a faq or other info and metroid material, i would be happy to add it if it is top-notch stuff and you will get full credit for everything you submit.

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http://primediscoveries.tripod.com
From: Malos | Posted: 2/1/2003 3:19:10 PM
i just got grav suit... i don't have the spider thingy. is that good?
From: BrownyMaster | Posted: 2/1/2003 4:10:55 PM
heh, i neva tried 2. I don't get Gamespot and otha Screen shots like image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/vgnews/082202/metroidprime_screen002.jpg where u have all Energy tanks and stuff...
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From: bluberry | Posted: 2/1/2003 5:03:55 PM
Right now some of the text in the rip off site is black on black, with little bits showing up to the right where it turns white.

And the real site runs fine on a 1024x768 on Phoenix, I'll verify that. Except the blue ad at the top, that makes it about 1050 pixels wide... for ad free hosting and FTP access you could try an ikaribox account at http://ikaribox.dyndns.org/ , I've had 100% uptime and no problems since I've had mine, and it has FTP access.
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From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 2/1/2003 6:01:48 PM
Another addition to the "Retro planned this" theory:
It seems to me that its a pretty big coincidence that the bomb counter is JUST LONG ENOUGH so that you can get 6 bombs in a row... they could have easily made the counter only trigger when you have 0 bombs left, or make the timer longer.
Also surprising is the fact that the plasma beam damages Thardus.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

PS: Still trying to successfully tbj.
---
Congratulations! You have won $1,000,000 from a lottery you didn't enter!! Send me $240,000 to pay the taxes and claim the prize!!
From: The Leech | Posted: 2/1/2003 6:40:52 PM
Yay. I got the plasma beam early. :D
---
*Total Darkness* Ya know, when one sense can't function, the others enhance. p00p iz teh f00ney wurd! _ I stand corrected.
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:23:03 PM
hey im back from work. i played some more last nite and found 2 new places to do the track jump, however, neither place is very usefull. one is in ice ruins east, you can track jump up the SB track, but you cant get high enough to be able to roll into a ball and roll in. another is in the phazon mines, main quarry. the spiderball track leading up the save point is the one here. although its very hard to get it to work, i have done it. amasawa, this might be helpfull on your "get as much as you can before thardus game" :)
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"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:24:57 PM
Banks is trying out that get-as-much-as-you-can-before-Thardus run, actually.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:26:02 PM
... shadap... banks then (uhg, its been a long day -_-)
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"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:34:20 PM
hey, ain't no thang. I'm just messing around, trying out paratroopa's trick to get lifegiver w/o the gravity suit, and it worked like a charm. Now if there were just some way to get this stasis tank open w/o getting the main power bomb pickup..
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:41:18 PM
whats paratroopa's trick?
---
Congratulations! You have won $1,000,000 from a lottery you didn't enter!! Send me $240,000 to pay the taxes and claim the prize!!
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:49:44 PM
amasawa, you and banks should try out those 2 places i mentioned, maybe you two will have better luck at them then i did.
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/1/2003 8:59:59 PM
paratroopa got the artifact just by space jumping to get up out of the water. I think someone else might have mentioned jumping around like crazy too; sorry if i'm overlooking anybody's comments.

I tried it out and what I wound up doing was kind of like getting the plasma beam early when you jump up onto the first spider block from that rim that goes around the room. That is, I jump while pressing forward against the wall, start to pull away a little just before space jumping, and then push forward again about halfway through the jump. I'm not sure exactly why that works/precisely how you should move to get that increased height, but it definitely works.

There's one other thing going on with this one though, I think, and I wanna stress that this is just an idea; I don't really know how to prove it per se. It seems as if, when you space jump high enough to come a certain distance out of the water, then fall back in, the game is fooled into thinking that the gravity rules for being on land should apply for a second, because on a successful jump out of the water, it looks just like making a space jump over land. That's the impression I get, anyway.

thanks for the suggestion l2ag3; I'll give them a try sometime when I'm in those areas, especially the ice ruins one since there's no other way up there w/o the spider ball afaik (the mines one you can triple bomb jump up and it can be a pretty weak one to make it)
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/1/2003 9:51:35 PM
Amasawa- Would that mean we don't need the Gravity Suit anymore? The only problem would be that if you skip the Gravity it means you skip the Frigate, then it means you need to get a PB expansion and the main PB in Dynamo Central... which means you could skip Gravity Suit and skip Frigate and still end up with 27%...?
---
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/1/2003 9:53:01 PM
zell99: correct, and correct
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: DARK SIDE | Posted: 2/1/2003 10:08:31 PM
For that whole Retro planned this I would really disagree. If you look when you have the gravity suit and you morph it uses the model for the Varia suit. I applaud them as in most games this would cause a crash since there is no model for a spider-less gravity ball. You would think that a model would be put in if this really was intended even if for nothing more than an easter egg. Also, guns aren't redone for every enemy, that would take forever to finish and be a complete waste of time so the plasma beam does damage Thardius because he follows the rules like every other creature.
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"Do not remove plastic disc from top of Gamecube or poisonous gas will be released."
From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 2/1/2003 10:24:31 PM
I just got Ice beam early...And I think that ONE solar panel with that one TINY bump is too coincidental. None of the others have it. I thought I was stuck without spiderball, but then I remembered that someone said something about jumping off a couple corners. Then I saw that bump, and I was like "Can I even slide off of that?", and then I realized I would have to stand on it. Too big a coincidence, with the early space jump rock and early plasma.
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"There's nothing to fear but fear itself and defective lawnmowers." - Me
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/1/2003 10:35:50 PM
actually elyas over at the IGN metroid forum claimed the model used there is the power suit morph ball, not varia, mostly because of the color trail it leaves, but you do have a point though DARK SIDE. I'm not completely convinced any of these tricks were left in/designed in intentionally either. I see reasonable arguments for both sides.
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/1/2003 11:22:46 PM
question for Awasama or DEVILBIT, or anyone who has done wave beam without space jump...

once in the ice temple, i can get on the first block on the right side either by dbj or jumping beside the pillar and jump from there... but once on the block, i cant seem to be able to get to the next higher block because there is a big gap between them... and you said dbjm on it.. is there a special trick of something? O_o
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/1/2003 11:52:36 PM
Hmmm... That jump does give me problems occasionally. The goal is to make Samus morph and run forward onto the block in midair, and you'll have to do another one from the dish, which is the trickiest jump to make consistently imo. I suggest placing your second bomb very close to the explosion of the first, since that will give Samus maximum height when the second bomb explodes and make your jumps much easier. Also, just before I morph out I hold the L trigger, as it seems to help me get that running animation that really propels Samus forward in midair.

Hope that helps... if you're still having trouble I can try to offer some other pointers, or maybe DEVILBIT can help you better. I highly recommend practicing this though; it seemed fairly difficult to me at first but now I'm learning to use the dbjm more effectively, and it seems to be a big time-saver once you get comfortable with it.
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/1/2003 11:55:35 PM
I've never attempted that jump before =p

I haven't made much progress on that game, been busy playing war3 / going out. But i saved last night after getting wavebuster / icebeam.

I'll prolly get plasma beam tonight, and go on from there.
---
~Metroid Prime Tricks~
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: sevensc | Posted: 2/1/2003 11:58:51 PM
the so-called rip site has been slightly updated but there are still no credits or anything saying that it is a rip, and yes, i will add it, so don't yell just yet. but at the same time, once i get some higher quality video captures and screens using my frinds new pc, and after posting a little pre-flaahgra craziness of my own, it won't really be all that much of a rip, but feel free to rip any original stuff i post, just give me credit, just as i will do for you. untill we meet again....

oh, and a little html glory for you zell99:

putting these three lines of code right before the actual <body> in your html should stop all the adds on you site.

<noembed><xmp>
<BODY>
</xmp></noembed>

(the real <body> would start here)

just cuz we have similar sites dosn't mean we can't share.
have fun with that.

---
metroid prime: the discoveries
http://primediscoveries.tripod.com
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 12:11:13 AM
Looks very sharp, sevensc. I'm using 8x6 res most of the time also, incidentally.

btw zell, I like the new title graphic; I just checked it out.
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Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 12:36:20 AM
Amasawa- thanks.

i was able to do that first dbjm but not the 2nd one from the dish... as you said, it's like if you tap L before morphing out, you'll get the running animation... its weird how it works though =/

on your speed run you were able to get it without loosing much time? because getting it right after boost ball means you dont have to backtrack there after you get space jump.. you save around 10 minutes.. so even if you lose a little bit of time to get up there it still saves some... meh..
---
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 12:47:44 AM
yeah, it seems really tough at first but it gets easier after you've climbed the temple a few times. On this last run it took me three tries to make the tbjm to the cliff, then fell once on the jump you were asking about, and once from the dish. All in all it's helped. I'm saved at the ship now at 2:14 and heading to fight ridley.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 12:51:41 AM
on your other run (2:33) you were in the Impact Crater at 2:22? can you fight Ridley in 5 minutes?
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 1:15:25 AM
wow that was weak; I beat my previous time by a minute. =) final boss did take a long time; I may try that last sequence again sometime.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: SodoHobo | Posted: 2/2/2003 1:55:41 AM
its now officially called a 2XBJ not a TBJ
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Nuke em' till they glow so you can shoot em' in the dark!
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 1:57:00 AM
Keep talkin', chuckles. It'll be fun to see you eat your words.
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 2/2/2003 1:59:22 AM
What is 2XBJ even supposed to mean? 2 XtReMe Bomb Jump? Please, stay out of every thread that has anything to do with anything that even remotely relates to a TBJ.
From: SodoHobo | Posted: 2/2/2003 2:02:33 AM
read my 2XBJ topic
it blows the lid off this entire scandall
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Nuke em' till they glow so you can shoot em' in the dark!
From: x133SeVeNx2 | Posted: 2/2/2003 2:03:18 AM
Excuse me while I go drink paint thinner.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/2/2003 2:38:39 AM
Well, at least we got a couple of good laughs...

So. Cutting out the Gravity Suit, eh? Only 15 more items to go and we can make this a 12% game (j/k of course).

-Tim
---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 2:46:14 AM
its now officially called a 2XBJ not a TBJ

Oooooh, it's "OFFICIALLY" called a 2XBJ instead of a TBJ now, and that means that this whole thing is a scam! Oh, I get it! It all makes sense now!

Okay, look. YOU didn't discover the TBJ, did you? I don't believe so. So what right do you have to be declaring that it is "officially" called a 2XBJ instead of a TBJ? I could say that I am "officially" called God now. Does that make me (a) God? No. It does not. I wish it did, but it does not.

And how does calling it a 2XBJ instead of a TBJ make the entire thing different? No matter what you call it, the procedure is still exactly the same, and the effect is still exactly the same. A name is only a thing of identification. It would be like calling a car "banana". Does that make cars bananas? No, it does not. They're still cars.

You could call it a 2XBJ, but it's still the same thing. All it is is a more literal term for it. But then would we go calling those things on the road "big metal frames with rubber wheels attached that turn fuel into energy to move forward"? Besides, TBJ is more catchy, and you're jumping three times, so nyah. If we really wanted to make it a literal term, it would be a SBJ (sextuple bomb jump), because six bombs are used in doing the TBJ (although one of them isn't actually used for the jump itself).

</pwnage>
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 2:50:39 AM
So. Cutting out the Gravity Suit, eh? Only 15 more items to go and we can make this a 12% game (j/k of course).

Actually, this isn't really going to help any. If you don't get the Gravity Suit, then you must skip the Crashed Frigate. This would mean getting a PB expansion early. HOWEVER, you must get the Power Bombs the way they're supposed to be gotten so you can break the Phazon Elite's tank. (WHY, Retro? Why did you program it that way?!)

I actually haven't looked at this myself, nor have I done any TBJs (although I was proud of myself when I figured out how to do the DBJ to get into the Vault all by myself :D), nor have I gotten anything early. But I do my research to find out all this stuff.
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"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: vivagorditas007 | Posted: 2/2/2003 3:26:54 AM
Hey guys. I have gotten wave beam and ice beam before thatdus, and now I am going onto the plasma beam. Thanks for coming up with this topic!!!
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::ELITE ROGUE::{//=|ROYAL DEFENDER OF NABOO|=\\}::Ex-President of the Vet's Board
From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:07:27 AM
Where exactly is the boost ball needed in the game? There must be some way to skip it.

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<SMS-120><SSBM-290><P9-DC><SMB-MASTER><SMB2-MASTER EXTRA><MKSC-WRx3> o_0
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:09:30 AM
you need the boost ball to activate spinners.
---
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http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/ssbm/
From: obzinator | Posted: 2/2/2003 1:53:53 PM
I was wondering if someone could offer me a few pointers for getting to the Magmoor Eleveator from Phazon Proccessing without the spider-ball.

I can get on to that one ledge by the window, but I'm not sure quite what to do after that. I checked zell's site to get as far as I am, but I can't picture how the rest of the jumps are supossed to go.

Good job on all the cool dicoveries so far. Very nice.
From: sevensc | Posted: 2/2/2003 2:05:47 PM
hey obzinitor, zells explaniation is pretty straight forward, but if you want to look at my site (which is just a rip at this point) go right ahead and do so. i worded some of the stuff diffenently so that may help.
---
metroid prime: the discoveries
http://primediscoveries.tripod.com
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 2:44:51 PM
Wow. This topic isn't on the 1st page! This means bump!

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/2/2003 3:09:10 PM
dont you also need boost ball to get ice beam?
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: crate3333 | Posted: 2/2/2003 3:13:50 PM
Great finds, Banks, kip, Amasawa, Tim, DEVILBIT, anyone I may have missed.

Getting back to the spider ball tracks you can walk on:
I was going for Plasma Beam before Thardus, and, being completely clueless in where to jump to, I space jumped onto a horizontal spider ball track. Several times. The track is located around the bend from where you get on the metal rail. It took a few tries, but I usually got up fairly quickly. As long as I held toward the wall (maybe if I didn't, I don't remember) I stayed on the track. I could jump, and maybe even walk on the track. Just to the right of the track I jumped up on is a section where you can roll in any direction (that normally would have the enemies whatever they're called). I jumped onto that, and I stayed, and could jump up for a short time before falling.
I don't think you can get to the Plasma Beam from there, though.

(Referring to Geothermal Core, for anyone not noticing).
---
Implication is a strong weapon
Book List: Crossroads of Twilight (Jan. '03), A Storm of Swords, Abhorsen (Feb. '03)
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/2/2003 5:44:33 PM
Meh, I'm still at 1:24 before frigate in my speed run...I just haven't gotten around to it, with driver's ed, and going places and such. Either tonight, after homework and simpsons, etc, or tomorrow after school I'll continue. I somehow HIGHLY doubt I'll even be coming closing to 2:30 ;p
---
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 5:51:52 PM
good luck with the run whenever you get around to it. hopefully you can break the record, but either way it's helpful for determing a fast order.

Still looking for other ways to change the order a little bit, but haven't found anything new yet...
---
Metroid Prime Discoveries
http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 2/2/2003 5:56:10 PM
it might be interesting to skip the gravity suit and get a 27% game wit power bombs... just for the heck of it. Imagine the ending movie, it would be cool...
---
Congratulations! You have won $1,000,000 from a lottery you didn't enter!! Send me $240,000 to pay the taxes and claim the prize!!
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:03:28 PM
Yeah a 27% without the Gravity suit would be interesting to do once and take some screenies for the rest of us just to see if the ending sequence does show Samus in Varia instead of Gravity...which it most likely would.

If only some way could be found to trigger that phazon elite without the main PB pickup...perhaps the right sequence of doing things might do it but it seems fairly unlikely.

Its looking more and more like item orders may continue to be broken and maybe a substitute here or there..but unless we got anothe rhuge revelation somewhere, percentage wise we seem to be locked down now.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:10:10 PM
Wait a minute. Are we 100% positive that the Crashed Frigate requires the Gravity Suit? Obviously the Gravity Suit was intended, but boy, some pretty amazing stuff has been done, I'd be surprised if the Gravity Suit is ABSOLUTELY necessary for the Crashed Frigate... if the Crashed Frigate can be cleared without the Gravity Suit, then a 26% game is possible.

Bah, I'm just randomly thinking about things... I doubt it's possible... but perhaps.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:15:19 PM
Its not possible to get through the Frigate without the Gravity suit...you are blocked by the game from going past a certain point unless you have the suit equiped. So unless someone figures out how to glitch the game and slip through, its not going ot happen. Although I wonder if anyone has tried it recently now that we've scrambled the item colletion order.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:16:27 PM
That so? Hmmm... weird. So you mean there's something besides the water that stops you from proceeding without the Gravity Suit? That sucks. :\
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:21:31 PM
and anyway, there are several places where the jump is too far for a non-grav suit jump and barely within grav range
---
"Next time you think nobody cares, try missing a couple payments..."
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:21:52 PM
Yeah I forget the exact point but I believe its the elevator shaft...once you reach it you get a message saying you can't proceed and the door won't open.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:41:35 PM
Does anyone know what the rooms are that (seemingly) make the Spider Ball required? Besides Ore Processing, I know that. I'm just curious, because I think there may be a way around Ore Processing, although I figure people have probably thought of it and tried it to no avail...
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:41:51 PM
I remember hearing that maybe fighting a normal Elite Pirate could trigger the Phazon Elite's chamber to be breakable. Is this tested?

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:43:52 PM
Don't you eventually have to fight at least one Elite Pirate (if not more, I know I fought at least three in a regular game) just to get around Phazon Mines? I think it's been tested.
---
"I gets soooooooooooooo annoying!" ~ BlueWizard13
"I love to hear people praise me so please feel free to tell me how good I am." ~ jibtothemax
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:45:02 PM
good point...

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:46:41 PM
27% without the Gravity suit would be interesting to do once and take some screenies for the rest of us just to see if the ending sequence does show Samus in Varia instead of Gravity...which it most likely would.

Sort of. The sequence where Samus loses her phazon enhancements shows her return to a gravity suit, but when outside the crater, she's shown with the Varia suit. Makes it seem like the sequence just after the final boss is prerendered, but NOT a guarantee, 'cause get this: if you beat Omega with only the varia suit, after he falls on Samus and she busts out of the Phazon striking a pose, she is wearing the GRAVITY suit in the cutscene. After the cutscene ends, she's wearing Phazon colors as usual. Strange eh?

If only some way could be found to trigger that phazon elite without the main PB pickup...perhaps the right sequence of doing things might do it but it seems fairly unlikely.

I wish there were a way too... I'm hoping someone will find a way to prove me wrong, because it would be so cool to not have to grab the main power bomb pickup.

As for going through the frigate w/o grav, it's funny that you mention that because I was just down there trying it since I hadn't in a long time. I can get to the wrecked elevator that has the energy tank inside, but I tried every sneaky jumping technique known about now to try to get on top of it with no success. Doubtful, but who knows? Like paratoopa pointed out, lots of strange stuff has been accomplished.

What I want now is for someone to find a way through twin fires tunnel heading toward geothermal core w/o the spider ball. I've found some ledges there that look promising, but nothing's panned out yet. It wouldn't be a super huge exciting discovery or anything; just a way to save some time.

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From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:53:19 PM
I've done that. Just have SJ, or come from the other side... BUT YOU NEED HEALTH!

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 6:55:48 PM
*snaps fingers
forgot to mention I want to get through twin fires in that direction w/o the grav suit as well. sorry I forgot to mention that originally.
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From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 7:24:31 PM
Ice Beam + Gravity Suit before Thardus using Triple Bump (v. 3.0)

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/2/2003 7:26:13 PM
you fiend :o
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 7:31:45 PM
My earlier question still stands...

Does anyone know what the rooms are that (seemingly) make the Spider Ball required? Besides Ore Processing, I know that. I'm just curious, because I think there may be a way around Ore Processing, although I figure people have probably thought of it and tried it to no avail...
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 7:40:33 PM
currently the only problematic rooms are:

ore processing
metroid quarantine A
great tree hall (to get to x-ray visor/chozo artifact)
sun tower (to go back to sunchamber for wild artifact)

everywhere else, there is a way around unless there's a room i forgot to mention (no, it's not needed for phazon processing center).

AFAIK i haven't heard of many people messing around in ore processing, although i have been. i can space jump directly from the second to third floor, but i just need a little more height to get from third to top, i can't seem to do it though. and i have no idea how to get from first to second floor... although with devilbit's space jump technique it might be possible.

but even if it was, you'd also have to know a way around the other rooms i mentioned.
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:00:08 PM
Why is this topic so lonely right now?

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:04:04 PM
hey kip, didn't you say you were able to bypass the spider ball track at the elevator that's behind Thardus? How did you manage that one?
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From: Zero IX | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:04:17 PM
Cuz no one's bumped it yet . . . Oh wait, I just did. *smacks forehead*
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vincit omnia veritas
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:04:49 PM
*makes topic less lonely and hands out cookies!*
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"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:07:53 PM
Hi cookie! My name's Mario Cleanstuff! Wanna be friends?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
ANSWER ME!

Cookies do not make the lonely go away... Maybe the hungry, but not the lonely... (And I mean the feelings of hunger or loneliness, not people who have those feelings.)

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:09:56 PM
*hands mario cleanstuff a kitty*
here, the magic lonely-away animal
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"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:12:05 PM
I already have a magic lonely-away animal. My kitty (Stripes) is on my bed being all cute and such. But the topic is lonely... not me.

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:14:00 PM
"hey kip, didn't you say you were able to bypass the spider ball track at the elevator that's behind Thardus?"

that's true i did, i guess it's useless though, but i was already in that room and i figured why not. i get like that sometimes.

to do it, jump on one of the rocks, then one of the poles by the elevator that is close to the track. then space jump to the ice door, you should make it easily. this ain't no space jump before flaahgra. =]
From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:15:29 PM
Hmm... Ok, these are just random thoughts but...
The door brhind the Bendezium is never locked right? Well, theoretically, you could kill the Shadow drone and then leave through that way and then go back around and see what happens then... Or has that already been done?
Another thing. The cutscene shows the generator being destroyed by Power Bomb... Is it possible to destrot it that way?
Oh well, I don't it will activate the Pirate even if it can be done. Still... Gotta try.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:19:06 PM
kip, that's perfect, thanks. =) I'm gonna try to get the super missile by going the back way through the research labs the first time. I found out you can get through twin fires heading for geothermal with a dbjm out of the lava on the other end. you have to adjust the height of the top bomb down a little bit to account for the drag of the lava, but it works and I was able to do it losing less than 50 energy on one attempt, so it's at least technically possible for a speed run.

not sure if this is useful or not yet, but if you can get the super missile that way there's a couple things this might help a little.

Psycho Falcon, yeah, I've tried both of those ideas with no success, but I still encourage anyone else to try stuff anyway to make sure there isn't something I've missed that would allow you to open that statis tank without getting the main pbomb pickup.
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From: sevensc | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:20:29 PM
i am about to do another update on my so-called rip site. i will be adding in all sorts of credits and i just need to know one thing: what is the easiest/best method for getting space jump before flaahgra (i will post whatever people agree on) and who gets the credit. thanks for your help.

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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:21:08 PM
(btw my brain makes it impossible for me to type the word STASIS most of the time, it seems <:-))
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:22:47 PM
DEVILBIT came up with the idea and said he did it with a dbjm morph off the rock, so I believe credit goes to him.
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From: Malos | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:23:07 PM
yay i have plasma beam and ice beam early, getting higher percent (good or bad) just got wavebuster. i LUV using super missile on the ghosts. i've figured this game out. took me 3 hours to get early plasma beam.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:35:32 PM
Amasawa- If you can get through Twin Fire Tunnel without Spiderball.. it means you can get Plasma before Super Missiles? So... after you get the Ice Beam, you go back to Magmoor, get Plasma, then the back way in the Research Lab, get Super Missiles/Thermal if you want.. it might save some time (instead of going all the way through Phendrana to get back in Magmoor and get Plasma)

Also... the first time in Phendrana, instead of going to get the Boost Ball, you could just get the Wave Beam with bomb jumps.. then go back to get Space Jumps (yeah with the crazy dbjm on the rock), Ice Beam, continue on... then you could get the Boost Ball after Thardus, on your way back towards Magmoor... do you think all this could help?
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:38:16 PM
zell, I think everything you're suggesting is correct except that you need the boost ball to get the ice beam afaik. I can find a way around every other room w/o boost ball except the room with the water-filled half pipe. If someone could find a way up there w/o the boost ball, you could get it later.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:42:08 PM
amasawa- oh did not think of that room... but getting plasma before super missiles would certainly be faster, at least...

and would skipping the grapple beam save some time? i really dont know.. just a thought.. the map of phazon mines is so vague in my head, it's been years since i went there... all i know is that doing the jumps where you're "supposed" to use the grapple beam are not THAT hard to do when you know how to use the l-lock spring jump...
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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:43:06 PM
something tells me theres a way to do that. maybe you can do a bdj or a tbj while rolling back and fourth on the half pipe to get just the little amount on extra hight you need?
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:43:26 PM
perhaps i should go to reflecting pool and try it even though i don't think i'll find anything. i was thinking about going to the life grove without using spider ball too.
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:46:27 PM
could you do a TBJ off one of the stone toads in the reflecting pool?
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"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:49:39 PM
it would certainly help if you could get up the Reflecting Pool without boost ball... but doing all the run fast would be hell.. getting Wave Beam without Space Jump, getting Space Jump without Boost Ball... Ice Beam without Spider... Plasma without Grapple/SpiderBall... it would be a melting pot of all the tricks we've found so far ;))
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:51:19 PM
yeah zell, I totally agree about plasma b4 super missile; that would definitely save time.

the grapple beam is at the top of the ore processing room and hasn't been more than 30 seconds out of the way on any of the runs I've done, but it might depend on the direction you're coming from. I'd say it's better to get it off the top of my head, but perhaps that warrants some further investigation.

kip, if you took time to look at the reflecting pool problem that would be great. =) There are a couple ledges there and you can stand on top of the toads, but I couldn't find anything I could use.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:53:08 PM
amasawa- my game is saved in phendrana shorelines, right after getting ice beam... i think i'll get plasma before super missiles (even though it's not a speed run) and i'll see how it goes
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:53:37 PM
You can -stand- on top of the toads, but if you're even CLOSE to one with the morph ball, it will suck you in, almost in a tractor beam like fashion.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 8:57:16 PM
cool zell. =) let us know how it goes.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:02:37 PM
O_o tell me if this is possible

Plasma Beam
Super Missiles
Artifact of Elder (Control Tower)
Thermal Visor
Artifact of Spirit (Phendrana's Edge)
Spider Ball / kill Thardus
Artifact of Sun (Chozo Ice Temple)
Power Bomb expansion (Ice Ruins West)
to Magmoor, continue on with Strenght, PB expansion,...

getting all the artifacts in Phendrana right there would save a trip to Phendrana.. it would save a whole lot of time!
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:03:41 PM
arg you need the PB for the edge's artifact...
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:04:44 PM
well, I think you still have to get that power bomb exp in phendrana before getting Spirit, but yeah, otherwise that order's exactly what I had in mind. =) On the speed runs any % I did lately, I also threw the Strength artifact and ice spreader in there, on the trip back to the temple.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:07:25 PM
thats what i'll do. it's not a speed run so I wont be able to tell if it saves time, but it's sure it will... you do it fast to see how much time it will save ;)
at least, the last trip to phendrana will be only to pick up Spirit at the Edge... then hop to Phazon Mines.. ;)
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From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:08:07 PM
I have an idea about bypassing Ore Processing without Spider Ball. Has anyone tried going in via the Waste Disposal via the Main Quarry? I think with some clever tbj'ing, it -might- be possible. Like for instance, there's one ledge up near the crane controls that's next to two boxes. You might be able to tbj up there.

I'm trying stuff out in the Main Quarry right now, but I can't do tbjs very well. I've only done one and it wasn't very high. I can dbj very well though. Hell, I'm not good at any techniques. But I think it might be possible to get over to the Waste Disposal from the Main Quarry w/o the Grapple Beam and thus bypass the Ore Processing, which would mean one less room that you need the Spider Ball for.

People may have tried this before, but I figure any idea is an idea worth mentioning.
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:13:55 PM
sounds good, i think i'll go try to get to waste disposal.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:16:23 PM
kip is trying to go to 3 places at the same time O_o

-Waste Disposal
-Great Tree Hall
-Reflecting Pool
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:18:34 PM
To get to waste disposal, you have to have the grapple beam. I've tried numerous times to make it to that ledge, and all have failed miserably. L-lock jump might make it closer but the distance seems just too far.
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:22:12 PM
Oh, and as for that guy that was trying to change the name of the tbj to the 2xdj or whatever, you're wrong. A double bomb jump involves 3 bombs. You only have 5 to work with after you lay the first one to start the bomb refill counter. So it's really just a double bomb jump followed with another bomb jump. Hence, the triple bomb jump.
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:23:25 PM
And what are you guys trying to establish now?
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:23:28 PM
Damn, I -really- wish I had a save point near the main quarry right now, because I'm sure you could bridge that gap...is there not a spider ball track there? a completely vertical one? I'm sure someone is getting my message right now...I can't really get a good mental image right now, but I'm sure that the spider ball track could be a large asset somehow...anyhow, back to homework :(
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From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:42:39 PM
in the main quarry (if i am thinking of the same area you are), the purple wave door on the left as you enter leads directly to a save point. I'm thinking of the first room you enter after taking the elevator to the Phazon mines from the frigate. if you can tbj up there (unless you have the spider ball) you can get to the save point.
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:52:36 PM
Question, since I actually haven't tried it yet. It is theoretically possible to get the Spider Ball, head back down, and just DBJ to it, right? Then hold R to navigate the last few pieces of track? I'm asking this for the people who might just use the original method of grabbing Plasma right after Thardus.

Oh, for someone who asked earlier, you cannot get past the Reactor Core without the Gravity Suit equipped. The order of the rooms follows the Subventilation Tunnels into Deck Gamma. Once you reach the door leading to the Reactor Core, you get the following message (or something like it): "Unable to access door mechanism. Gravity Suit upgrade required to proceed in liquid environment." Therefore, you sacrifice the Grav. Suit in exchange for the early Power Bomb upgrade, and still keep it at 27%.

Still, how exactly do you skip the Frigate? My friend reported trying to go in the back way through Magmoor (into the Processing Center) and said he got stopped by a metal gate shortly before the Energy Tank (that leads to OP).

P.S. Sweet new layout, zell!

-Tim

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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:54:40 PM
Your friend must be a n00b =D When you go to processing center, you don't head through to the OP room, you go through the ice beam door, to the middle of the phazon mines (a room with shadow pirates).
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From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:57:46 PM
No Boost Ball Reflecting Pool!
First you must jump on the ledge on the back side of the back right pillar (when facing the Chozo Head) and lock the camera when facing the ledge where the door leading to the Great tree Hall is. Space jump towards the ledge's edge and maneuver yourself so that you are in between two small pieces of it that are sticking outm, you should glitch and "hang" there. Contitue to holdthe direction towards the ledge with camera lock and you should slowly raise up hte ledge via tah glitch. Once up high enough, morph and stand still and bomb jump to the ledge! The rest is simple...
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From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 2/2/2003 9:59:26 PM
Or roll, the morphing actually gets on the ledge. (I just did it again).
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:10:40 PM
I think you still need to use the boost ball to activate the way to super missile, as well as to plasma beam.
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:10:46 PM
Someone gonna answer my first question?

And yeah, I never thought about that second level door. I gotta go knock him around now.

-TIm
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From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:13:03 PM
Yeah, and probably the way to the artifact near the main Magmoor/Phendrana elevator, but it saves a trip to Phendrana and back to get the Ice Beam.
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:17:09 PM
Are you basing this off of the fact that you can get spacejump by dbjm off the rock behind samus's ship? If so, good luck with that =(
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:22:24 PM
okay, i got to life grove without spider ball (that was easy). nevermind about needing the spider ball (i'll post explanation in a bit but i'd rather make a video as always). since i'm near reflecting pool i guess i'll try what psycho falcon was saying just to see if i can do it.

i've got a few ideas about main quarry, but i can't get any of them to work, i keep getting close. it's probably possible to do it though. if i do that special space jump from that ledge with the track i can almost reach the door but i suck at it so i can't do it.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:26:18 PM
*thinks* would that mean the only other room would be metroid quarantine A?
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:27:27 PM
Yes, probably...however, metroid quarantine A is SO impossible that it's not even funny. I spent a good hour pissing around in that room, all for naught. The only "ledge" is actually blocked off by an invisible wall.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:28:44 PM
plus sun tower. and ore processing unless someone gets to waste disposal/figures out a way to get from bottom to top of ore processing (we already know space jumping from 2nd to 3rd floor, i like doing that in a speed run).
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:30:12 PM
How do you get to the Life Grove without the Spider Ball? I seem to be missing out on a bunch of these misc. tricks. And if you could find an alternate way through Quarantine A and the Sun Tower, would that eliminate the Spider Ball?

-Tim
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:31:55 PM
and ore processing... yep, that should be it for spider ball, since you can get through phazon processing center without it.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:34:12 PM
the scariest rooms is the SunTower.. and i always forget about it...
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:46:42 PM
uh ok i got up reflecting pool, i don't know if it's the same way but whatever.

first go to where you are when you enter the room from hall of elders (the chozo head is staring at you, and a toad to your left and right). go left and jump on that first toad there.

then turn around facing the door to hall of elders. look up some and lock your view. you are going to space jump to the ledge directly above you. jump off and move right and back slightly (make sure she doesn't hit her head anywhere so the jump isn't ended prematurely), then space jump towards the ledge. if it's done right, it looks like samus does a third jump up to reach the ledge, it's weird.

yay.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:47:03 PM
I've fiddled around in the Main Quarry... I can kind of do tbjs now, but I'm not very good at it... I've ALMOST made it to the Waste Disposal with a L-Lock Spring Jump, but not quite there. I'm willing to bet it's possible. Too bad Metroid Quarantine A and Sun Tower will probably always require the Spider Ball... :(
---
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:50:11 PM
In any event, going from the main quarry to ore processing will save me a bunch of time on my speed run, for my route.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:53:12 PM
hmm NM about the third jump to the ledge, i did it a few more times to test how hard it was, and the way she got up was different each time.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 10:58:37 PM
kip- the important thing is that she gets up..

now we'd need to test which way is faster... getting plasma through twin fire tunnel and entering the lab through the back door, or getting boost ball after ice beam and going through the whole research lab?

my guess is for the first one..
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:03:45 PM
This is all based off skipping boost ball / space jump and getting Wave beam on your first trip to phendrana? Wouldn't you still have to get boost ball to get space jump eventually? *shrug*
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:05:13 PM
alright, great tree hall without spider ball:

when you enter this room there are 2 bloodflowers, the higher one is in a little cave. go to the little cave that that bloodflower is in after you kill everyone.

take a look at the track and notice the horizontal part of it (like this: |---|). you want to space jump on top of the horizontal part, L locking down slightly is a good idea. the landing has to be a bit precise; it's easy to go over the track and fall down, and it's also easy to not reach it.

at any rate, once you land, turn right and look up some, lock your view. back up a little if needed and space jump to the next highest horizontal part, make sure she doesn't hit her head or anything. you should land it. you'll land on a round ledge on top of the track. jump around on it a bit and make sure you're on the highest part.

now look up again and lock your view. get near the edge of the ledge, then jump off to the left (or whatever direction), and as soon as there isn't anything blocking samus from going higher anymore, space jump and move back onto the ledge above the track. it's easier than it looks.

someone who can make vids: if you're bored, how about a video of fighting thardus in x-ray view the whole time? or let us know what it's like, if you can see the weak spots and it doesn't overheat, etc.
From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:06:43 PM
i can't help but think those horizontal parts are intentional for you to get up there. why wouldn't they just have a twisty vertical track that goes all the way up?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:07:16 PM
Kip, i'll get my gf to bring over her camera and i'll try to get the x-ray visor tonight. How about a nice pic of me using the flamethrower on Thardus while using X-ray? ;)
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From: UprightCitizen | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:25:36 PM
very useful information
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:29:08 PM
i have 3 things on tape right now... i just need to get my camera and make videos.

1- the track jump up the furnace
2- the jump up the reflecting pool
3- the jump up the great tree hall

now i could make a video of me using X-ray on thardus, but i would have to waste my current game.. even though it aint no speed run... I might do it but it could take a couple of days =//
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:34:30 PM
oh and I'm sorry if I can't keep the site updated with the latest tricks (Getting up the spider ball track in Metroid Quarantine B without the SB, Lifegiver w/out Gravity suit, Reflecting pool w/out boost ball, X-Ray Visor b4 Spider ball...) I have lots of work for school =/ I'll do my best to add these tricks as soon as I can..

I'll probably just add them in a temporary section because I'll have to do the whole toolbar again to add these things.. now I dont know WHERE I'll add them..!
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:40:35 PM
it's fine with me personally... getting mad about something like that is just crazy. =]
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:41:46 PM
I'd be more mad about someone taking zells information and putting it on their own site. *cough*
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:43:49 PM
wow, this topic suddenly became very busy. =D

Banks, that'd be really cool if you could catch Thardus on video w/ x-ray equipped.

zell, don't worry about the site; I mean it's a game, y'know? You'll get around to it when you have time and feel motivated. btw I think that bomb trick vs. Thardus is pretty slick and ought to be added into the site somehow. I realize it's not dedicated to getting items early but it makes that boss even easier, esp. w/ plasma & is good for speed runs. Anyway, that's my vote, so I leave the decision on that in your hands.

Psycho Falcon: nice work. keep that line of thinking; that's what keeps us rolling. you know how many times I got "stuck" in the place you mentioned and for whatever reason just couldn't get Samus to move up onto the platform? :-) Keep at it

kip--what I can I say, you sure didn't need to rest very long before getting your Metroid genius powers going again. =) Brilliant stuff!

*explodes from sensory overload
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From: kip | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:45:17 PM
i guess that kind of stuff can't really be avoided... there are probably discovery faqs at other places by now, and the people credited are like "darknight2389473".
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/2/2003 11:46:49 PM
hey, how'd you know my other screen name??! ;-)
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:02:05 AM
LOL I can see Amasawa going to other boards and revealing all those tricks and taking all the credits ;)

BTW, I saved beside the Magmoor to Phendrana's elevator (beside Thardus) after getting the Plasma Beam through Twin Fire... I died a couple of times there and it pissed me off!

And I uploaded a temporary file with some tricks. You can go check it out, the link is in the News page.

Amasawa- Which bomb trick are you talking about, against Thardus? Using Power Bombs against him?
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:04:31 AM
I had around 400 visitors on my website today O_o
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:05:09 AM
Maybe I should post a picture of myself and state I'm single ;)
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:07:33 AM
Don't worry. I try to update my speed faq with the appropriate credits whenever something new is done, and I have the site name (the original one :D ) plastered on there as reference material, plus my faq is now at IGN, so all the original creditees should get their due.

-Tim

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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:12:38 AM
You're right about the going to other web sites, in fact. I've been spamming your site all over the place. =) Most people seem pretty happy to hear about it, which is cool.

ShadowsRevenge discovered that bombing Thardus while he's rolling at you gets rid of the phazon shielding instantly; i.e. the weak spots turn blue so you can lock on. Combined with the plasma beam, it's absolutely devastating and makes Thardus a complete joke.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:14:02 AM
(sorry, forgot to mention that's using regular bombs)
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:27:12 AM
Yeah, i thought that was a pretty neat trick as well ^^
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From: Qmark | Posted: 2/3/2003 1:42:36 AM
Hmmm... I can't seem to get on that spider-block in Geothermal Core. The jumps always come up just a tad short.

Oh, and the videos are down.
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:04:13 AM
ok, i managed to jump from the first floor to the second in ore processing. since i also know how to go from second to third, this means you never need to use the spider ball to get to the power bomb.

however, if you want the grapple beam, i need to find a way to go from the third floor to the top.
From: Qmark | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:22:40 AM
oh, the videos are back (?)

I still cant get enough height on that jump..
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:42:59 AM
yay, i got from third to top floor. that leaves metroid quarantine A and sun tower.

first floor to second:

if it's not already like this when you enter ore processing for the first time, bomb the device until the blue track lines up with the connecting piece on the second floor, as if you trying to ride it up there. then look at the pillar and you should see a line barely off the ground that goes across some of the pillar, which you can jump on.

when you get on this line, you should notice that on one end it ends at the red spider ball track, at the other it ends near some rusty bars and next to those there is a slippery ledge sticking out above you. it seems like you can jump on the ledge but you'll slide off every time.

what you want to do is space jump over the ledge and push against the pillar while also moving to the bars. try to get yourself stuck in between the bars and the slippery ledge. if done right the bars (or something glitchy) will keep you from sliding off. from here, space jump to the second floor, aim for the part sticking out past the railing which is above that little blob of phazon (but try to get over the railing).

second floor to third:

bomb the device on the second floor until the red spider ball track lines up with the connecting piece on the third floor (so that it forms a longer line on the third floor; that's what you want, not a path that goes up there).

then go over to the blue track and look for a square shaped thing with 8 lights on it. space jump on it and you'll land on it. now, face the blue track and lock your view, space jump and move out to the left (don't hit her head anywhere), then move back to the right and you should stop early because you landed on top of the track. space jump again to the third floor.

now you can go get the power bomb.

third floor to top:

once you're on the third floor, jump on top of the device. take a look at the red spider ball track. if you lined it up earlier it should be a long line. now do that L lock special space jump thing and land on top of the back part of the red track since it's closer than the front. from here, space jump again to the top floor.

to go from the grapple beam door to waste disposal or vice versa without grapple beam, space jump down on the red track, then space jump again to whichever part you wanted to go to. i'm sure you could also do an L lock space jump to avoid messing with the red spider ball track again.

i expect the method of going from the first to second floor to be hard to understand. like i said i'd love to make a video instead but you guys know how it is... =[
From: Nny | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:47:53 AM
What's up, suckas?!?! I'm trying for a low % Hard mode run and am stuck in Ice Ruins West. Is it possible to get to the Wave Beam door ledge sans Space Jump? I'm thinking a tbjm might do the trick from the bottom, but maybe there's some funky jump from the Ice Shreikbat ledge I'm not seeing. I've got six items so far: A missle, morph ball, morph bomb, Charge Beam, Varia Suit and Wave Beam. %6. Don't make me bump up to eight yet.
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:17:30 AM
i've gotten close to the wave beam door by doing a tbjm from the ground but i can't seem to do it (maybe if you get the running animation). i also can't seem to get there by doing a tbjm from the ice shriekbat ledge.

i heard you can go through twin fires without gravity suit and space jump with a dbjm, and go directly to to the elevator behind thardus. but i don't know how you'd survive long enough to get that dbjm off in hard low % (assuming no energy tanks). i'd expect the "energy low" message to be flashing before you even get to where you'd do the dbjm.
From: Nny | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:28:17 AM
Damn it, there has to be a way to get Space Jump without the Boost Ball..there just has to be. I've tried bomb jumping off that rock near the Gunship to get it, and apparently it's possible, but only through a freak glitch or programming hiccup, it seems to me. It's just impossible. Speaking of glitches, I think I found one. I got to Crossway in Chozo Ruins after aquiring Wave Beam early and was forced to turn back without Boost Ball. On the way back through Crossway Access West my game froze about a third of the way in. I've tried this twice and it froze in the same spot. Anyone else have this?
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:30:12 AM
no idea about metroid quarantine A. i can see that little alcove near the ice door, but every time i jump there from that bar above the phazon pit she just slides off. it seems like our best chance is L lock space jumping from the bar to the ice door. i can get semi close, but i don't know about this.

no idea about sun tower either. after you jump on the wasp hives there's nothing you can land on besides that rock ledge near the top of the room, and i'm not sure if you can space jump/tbjm from that ledge to the door anyway. unless someone figures out a way to fight the ghosts and get the wild artifact before you drop down after flaahgra, it seems like the spider ball will always be necessary, even if someone finds a way past quarantine A.

maybe the plasma beam can burn the roots on the other door, i really doubt that though.
From: Nny | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:31:36 AM
Kip, I think I'm going to have to break down and nab at least one energy tank somewhere. Omega Pirate and Metroid Prime aren't going to go down with only 99 units of energy on Hard, methinks. The Sheegoth alone was able to kill me in two hits, so I shudder to think what the trek down into the Phazon Mines to get the Artifact the mutant Pirate is guarding will be like....
From: Nny | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:56:19 AM
Uh, that's DEFINITELY a no on the Twin Fires tunnel w/out Spider Ball or E Tanks. Ah well. I'm going to go back to that dreaded Space Jump minus Boost Ball crusade again tomorrow, perhaps there's some way to tbjm up to the bridge of branches above the half pipe one would usually use. Something.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:14:19 AM
Nny- a 27% run is done using no energy tanks (only your starting 99 energy)
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:15:07 AM
oh and congrats kip... in one night, you found how to get X-Ray w/out spider ball, reflecting pool w/out boost ball and ore processing w/out spider ball... you're amazing =D
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:09:51 PM
i've managed to tbjm up to the wave beam door there w/o space jump, but it was tricky. I did it near the wall to the right, to take advantage of the elevated ground, but not so near it that I get pushed away by the tiny snow drift in the corner.

I managed to get as far as the observatory without it, but without space jump I think it's safe to say there's zero chance of getting that super missile. (maybe :))

Hmm, really couldn't get thru twin fires on hard? I gotta try it, can't help myself. <:-) I found a slope you can jump on to make the jump out to that end without touching the lava so you can just morph in midair before touching the lava, then double bomb jump morph right away and voila, you're at the edge. I give you permission to laugh your ass off at me when I come slinking back admitting I can't do it. =D
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:12:57 PM
o_O at kip's mad rush of discoveries. I am so gonna HAVE to try that ore processing stuff for the fun of it. wtg genius! =)
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:27:00 PM
Well, I'm saved at the landing site, before ridley, at 2:15. I don't think I'll be breaking 2:30, as last time, it took me 18 minutes from the save before ridley, to the end. We'll see how it goes...
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:54:37 PM
2:31. I didn't save in the impact crater however, because I feel that with some perfect optimization, I could get a 2:29. ^_^
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From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/3/2003 12:55:50 PM
you have a very heartening and pleasant message in your signature, funky
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From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/3/2003 1:10:13 PM
the next edition of this topic should be named: "Get every item in the game and defeat Metroid Prime WITHOUT fighting Thardus! (v 4.0)"
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From: Nny | Posted: 2/3/2003 1:46:36 PM
Zell>> Yes, but was the %27 run accomplished on Hard? I'm trying a Hard run, and if this %27 was done with out E Tanks, then my Kudos and respect to whoever was able to slog through OP.

Amasawa>> I was tinkering with that last night, and it seems entirely possible. However, the funky slope on the right, like you said, means you can't press against the wall. I'm not a tbj master so this might take awhile to get down.

As to Twin Fires Tunnel, I tried an L Lock Spring/twist at the last second jump to get as far as I could then turned to morph ball when I hit the lava, and died in about three seconds. Didn't even make it to the wall. If you could prolong Samus' time in the air, however....who knows?

I was also messing with my dbjm technique and I came upon something interesting. I'm sure you've all discovered this already, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway because I haven't heard anyone say anything about it before. In climbing up the big blocks to get the wave beam, I found I was able to get a lot more distance off a dbjm if I hit the first bomb while rolling slightly, meaning I was blasted off at an angle. This means my third bomb gets placed on a separate y axis than my second. So as soon as I land from the first bomb's blast I quickly reorient myself to roll into the second bomb from the direction opposite the third bomb and thus am able to do a sort of 'stepping stone' effect that gives me more distance than a standard 'lined-up' dbjm would. I would like to experiment with this @ the rock near the gunship, however, there's not a lot of room to maneuver and I'm f***ing sick of that jump. Maybe someone better than me could perfect this with a tbjm, assuming such coordination is possible. I dunno, just thought I'd throw it out there.
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 1:52:48 PM
so, no one tried space jump before flaahgra to get the ghosts to appear? i might try it then if i can ever do it, only thing is i don't understand how to reload sunchamber and sun tower access. you need to go farther than entering sun tower for it to happen, i think. but if you drop down, you don't go back up, and there's no chance of 24%/25%.

besides that, anything else interesting to try? i can't make any progress in quarantine A so i'm tired of that place for now.
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:05:57 PM
i did 27% on hard. montypylon also did, there could be others. a lot of people did hard 28% also but i guess they didn't get around to 27% yet/are tired of it.

i made a little strategy for omega pirate in the high scores thread... if you get to him, it might help you out, i don't know. all i know is that it helped me a lot. there's a better explanation of it on page 10 or something, i don't remember but i could go look for it.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:28:16 PM
he could go look at TreborSelbon's Low % FAQ too =P

kip- Banks tried for several hours to get Space Jumps b4 Flaahgra, with no success. He did the jump only once, but with a game that already had the Space Jump, so he couldn't test if the Ghosts would appear. I'm 95% sure they won't though =(

If you're looking for something to do, try getting a PB expansion before Ice Beam. It would save lots of time in a speed run =P We could probably break the 2h mark... O_o
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:34:11 PM
yeah, i seriously doubt it'd work either. it's just depressing how there's only 1 thing making the charge beam/super missile required, and now there are only 2 things for the spider ball.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:45:26 PM
yeah... but just bring yourself back 1 month ago... you would never have imagined getting Ice Beam, Plasma Beam, Power Bombs, X-Ray before Thardus... you probably did not imagine skipping the Grapple Beam. You probably thought getting up the Ore Processing w/out Spider Ball was impossible.

*lets you time to think*

See. We made a whole lot of improvement and I'm sure there are more things to discover, if we all put our ideas and skillz together... Now power on your Game Cube and go find a way to get PB before Ice Beam =D
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:50:43 PM
Power bomb before ice beam is NOT possible, unless you were to grab the plasma beam by going through twin fires, then heading back, going to phendrana, then getting the one in ice ruins west...which is actually starting to sound like a good idea now that I think about it...jebus...aack, nm, I'm a moron, I forgot that you need the ice beam to get plasma >_<
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From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:51:18 PM
This is my first chance to post since moments after my last post, and yes I realize I forgot about needing the Wave Beam. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to me, however I think it's a good guess they have. I don't mean to be rude though.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 2:56:00 PM
funkytoad- could you post the items order you used for your 2:31 run, as well as the % you had at the end, please? We could compare with Amasawa's... since you both got 2:30..optimization is needed
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:00:37 PM
BTW, out of curiousity, did anyone ever make that attempt at refreshing to the Chozo ghosts by getting the space jump before you fight Flaahgra? I remember it being discussed but I never heard any response of an attempt at it.

Even if not attempted I think the problem we have here is the 2 room refresh rule. The trigger for the ghosts is the hallway after you get up the Sun tower...in order to refresh that room you need to move 2 rooms away which unfortunately means you'd need to go down the tower.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:03:10 PM
SolfFlare- 4 posts above yours:

Banks tried for several hours to get Space Jumps b4 Flaahgra, with no success. He did the jump only once, but with a game that already had the Space Jump, so he couldn't test if the Ghosts would appear. I'm 95% sure they won't though =(
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:04:19 PM
-missile launcher
-morph ball
-charge beam
-morph ball bombs
-varia suit
-artifact of nature
-boost ball
-space jump
-artifact of strength
-ice beam
-super missile
-gravity suit
-plasma beam
-spider ball
-power bomb expansion, in ice ruins west
-artifact of sun(?) (the one in the ice temple)
-artifact of wild
-artifact of lifegiver
-artifact of ? (the one in the hall of elders, plasma beam hole)
-x-ray visor
-artifact in life grove
-grappling beam
-power bombs
-phazon suit
-artifact of newborn
-artifact of warrior (phazon elite)
-artifact of elder(?) (the one in phendrana's edge)
-thermal visor
-artifact of ? (control tower)
-artifact of truth

If I did stuff like getting wave beam before space jump and such, I could beat montypylon's time NO problem. However, as of now, I'm saved before ridley at 2:15, and am hoping I can optimize the 2 bosses to below 2:30.

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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:04:37 PM
Oh, and 47% btw.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:11:00 PM
nice. you forgot Wave Beam, but I guess you got it after Space Jump, before Strenght... if you had gotten Wave Beam before Space Jump, you would've saved at least 5 minutes (if you get up the temple without too much problems) but it's so hard.. :(
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:12:50 PM
Last posted run I had was 2:33 at 46%. Item order was:

Missiles
Morph ball
Charge beam
Bombs
Artifact of Nature
Boost ball
Wave beam
Space jump
Ice beam
Super missile
Plasma beam
Spider ball
Artifact of Sun
Power bomb expansion (Phendrana)
Artifact of Strength
Power bomb expansion (Magmoor)
Ice spreader
Artifact of Spirit
Gravity suit
Artifact of Elder
Thermal visor
Grapple beam
X-ray visor
Artifact of Chozo
Power bombs (Phazon Mines)
Phazon suit/beam
Artifact of Newborn
Artifact of Warrior
Artifact of World
Artifact of Wild
Artifact of Lifegiver
Artifact of Truth

I've tried another run where I skipped the gravity suit and got lifegiver a little earlier, but it was only a minute faster. =) I did get a really crappy run at Prime that time though, so it could be improved.

Going through twin fires w/o spider ball to get plasma does seem to allow you to save some time -- prolly a good 10 mins, but not much more.

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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:12:55 PM
Correct.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:13:57 PM
(btw I haven't finished a run yet going through twin fires the way I mentioned)
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From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:17:42 PM
holy cow... I go away for a day and a half, and there's a hundred messages + for me to read... stupid 2XBJ thing... anyone know what his topic is (URL)?
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From: Psycho Falcon | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:25:06 PM
Very impressive kip, pretty soon there won't be anything left that's breakable...(shudders) Is that a good thing?
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:26:53 PM
Amasawa- I can't see how skipping the Gravity Suit only shaved 1 minute of your time...

Here's the order I think would be the fastest..

Chozo Ruins
Missile Launcher (Hive Mecha)
Morph Ball (Plated Beetle)
Charge Beam
Morph Ball Bombs (Incinerator Drone)
Varia Suit (Flaahgra)
Artifact of Nature (Lava Lake)
Boost Ball
Wave Beam (Sheegoth)
Space Jump Boots
Ice Beam
Plasma Beam
Super Missiles
Artifact of Elder (Control Tower)
Thermal Visor
Spider Ball (Thardus)
Artifact of Sun (Chozo Ice Temple)
Power Bomb Expansion (Ice Ruins West)
Artifact of Strenght (Monitor Station)
Ice Spreader
Artifact of Spirit (Phendrana's Edge)
*Gravity Suit (Gravity Chamber)
**Grapple Beam (You just skipped the Crashed Frigate)
X-Ray Visor
Artifact of Chozo (Life Grove)
Power Bomb (Shadow Drone)
Phazon Suit & Beam (Omega Pirate)
Artifact of Newborn (Phazon Mining Tunnel)
Artifact of Warrior (Elite Research)
Artifact of World (Hall of Elders)
Artifact of Wild (Sunchamber)
Artifact of Lifegiver (Tower of Light)
Artifact of Truth (Artifact Chamber)

*Skipping the Gravity Suit should save a couple of minutes, if you manage to get Lifegiver fast enough.
**Skipping the Grapple Beam might save a bit of time, but it depends which way you take in the Mines.. it would have to be tested
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:35:12 PM
Another 2:31...>_< This is disappointing, because MP's 2nd form wasted at LEAST 2 minutes, not making phazon, when he technically could have.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:39:38 PM
Retry until you have 2:28 ;)
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:55:12 PM
it was only a minute different zell, because I suck and made different execution errors on the two runs. <=) I agree with you; skipping the gravity suit does save a little time. I don't have much trouble getting lifegiver w/o it.

I'm still quite confident getting the plasma beam then going through the research labs will save another 10 mins though. I believe 2:20 times are quite possible, give or take a minute or two depending on how fussy Prime is that day. =)
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:56:12 PM
oops, forgot to mention zell that yes; I think your order is optimal.
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From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/3/2003 3:58:21 PM
Jebus, that run was totally crap, and it still got me a 2:31 o_O; I'm thinking a 2:28 is gonna be happening, if the random factors will all come together at some point

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From: theBlackChocobo | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:03:20 PM
I'm not sure if this will work (I have not tested it per se)but against Metroid Prime's final form, if you are very far away when he's about to attack, he'll make a phazon pool. I can sometimes get him to do a few within a short period of time.
To get far away, I just lock on and strafe backwards and sideways to get as far away as possible.
Perhaps it only makes phazon pools when it feels "safe"... (you have to be far away, see)
It could save you a bit of time if you don't already do it.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:04:59 PM
tBC, I notice the same thing. I'm not quite sure why but yeah, I agree with you that it seems to help.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:05:08 PM
i've noticed you can jump on the track in quarantine A at some points, but the only part i can so far is just a short distance away from the ledge with the ice door. can't seem to L lock space jump from the ledge at the other end of the track and get on top of it. but i'm trying to see if there are other places, doesn't look like it though.

and L lock space jumping from that one bar isn't going anywhere, it's too far away.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:12:56 PM
I just got the Super Missiles/Thermal Visor/Artifact of Elder through the back way in the Research Lab. It's funny the effect of the Plasma Beam had on the pirates, they went flying and got stuck in the walls O_o also, there were no holograms on the elevators, until I stepped in, they appeared... and on the way back after Super Missiles, I had to re-activate them by scanning, as you usually have to.

Right now, I'd say 2:10 is possible, with almost no mistakes, fast bosses, etc.
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From: Mana Knight 24 | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:23:30 PM
Sorry to post such not-discovery-oriented stuff here right now, but I simply cannot get to the early plasma beam. I can get to the metal rim every 15 or so tries. But I tried over and over, and I cannot get to the first square spiderball track. I only got up once, and all the other times I didn't get enough height, and slipped off, or tried to get on the light-bulb thing, and slipped off.
Can I have a little more information on the first jump against the wall, second jump in a V? It just made me fall more...
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:42:38 PM
It really is a tricky jump to make. It gets easier with practice but until you've managed it once or twice it can be very frustrating.

Once you get to the part of the rim underneath the spider ball block, I think two things that are really key are 1)Make sure you're L-locked looking down somewhat while (more or less) facing the wall, and 2)Use the control stick w/ the space jump to gain more height.

When I jump, I'm usually thinking about the jump like this:
1) Push forward against the wall, then press the B button to start the first jump.
2) Midway through the first jump, push down on the control stick to pull back away from the wall a little.
3) Push forward again as you start the second jump, and move to the left as well to make it onto the block.

If you pull back far enough on step 2, another thing that tends to help me is if I push against the lightbulb-looking thing as I'm pushing forward at the end of the jump; this seems to help give Samus the extra boost she needs.

When you do make it up onto the block, before jumping up on to the second block, move away from the wall slightly so that you don't bump it and get knocked off once you jump. You can then space jump directly to the white door from the second block if you want, or jump up to the third and then jump over.

not sure if any of this will help, but here's hoping...
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:44:48 PM
oh, one other thing... whatever you do, DON'T release the L trigger while you're jumping. It makes things much easier if you're looking down a little the whole time while making the jump.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:47:08 PM
I've gotten the X-Ray visor. I'll fight Thardus with it tonight =D Every Visors & Every Beams against Thardus... impressive
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From: wizzlefoshizzle | Posted: 2/3/2003 4:51:07 PM
i found an easier way of explaining kips method of getting from the first floor to the second floor of ore procesing. line up the tracks like kip said, then single jump off the bomb device onto the part of track straight ahead between the pipes and the slippery ledge, from there follow the rest of kips method. i know its nothing important but it might help a little bit
From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/3/2003 5:39:27 PM
zell, you should put a gamefaqs guestbook for people to sign on your site. if you don't want to make your own, you can get one at htmlGear.com
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:08:00 PM
yeah.. but if I put a guestbook, people would ask questions in there.. =//

I've got Ore Processing without Spider Ball on tape.. i'll try to get it on my computer for tomorrow evening. I also have Reflecting Pool, Great Tree Hall and the track jump up the Furnace. I might also get Thardus using X-Ray, Plasma, Ice, Powerbombs too.. and I might as well get the morphball-bomb-thardus trick on tape too..
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:12:12 PM
kip- when you say you're jumping from the ledge in metroid quarantine A, do you mean the ledge by the spider ball tracks or the one that's by the x-ray platform? I don't think the pipe jump will lead to anywhere, and it doesn't help that the room is so dark too. Tell me what stuf you were trying to jump on, because with some luck, we could find something to slow the jump descent and still give enough height for the ledge.

Phazon Suit > Thardus would be sweet =(
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:17:10 PM
congrats zell. hopefully i can get the video situation sorted out so i can take most of the burden off you, and just have a video ready every time i find something new. there's 1 thing left for me to try, it might work it might not, if it doesn't... not sure what to do.

so, anything else to try? i can't get up sun tower without using the spider ball track so that's hopeless, and i can't get anywhere in quarantine A either. and i still can't do space jump before flaahgra. i wanna mess around somewhere else... say, is that door at the top of frigate crash site an ice door? if not maybe i'll try to find a way up there for ice beam before wave beam (probably won't though).
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:19:44 PM
it's an ice door, unfortunately. =( the only ways into the reflecting pool room w/o ice beam are from the room with the ice beam in it, and from the tunnel leading to the hall of elders, IIRC
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:21:35 PM
previously i refered to that thing by the x-ray platform as "the bar"; y'know, that one by that alcove it looks like you jump into, but yet you slide off if you try.

so i've been trying to jump from the ledge at the start of the spider ball track. i've noticed at about a little over halfway of the second piece, you can land right on it and space jump again to the ice door, only thing is i can't get there from the ledge. i actually found that out by giving myself a free ride to the ice door, then jumping everywhere trying to find something that gives this idea hope.

with an L lock space jump i just can't get enough height to land on top of the track, i can reach it though. and dbjms/tbjms don't even get close to the ice door.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:33:04 PM
wow, you can land on that second piece of track? I'll have to go check that out kip~
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:36:20 PM
to see what i mean load up your 100% game or whatever, then just ride the track to the ice door. then turn around and push to the right (it seems easier if the wall's to your right, not left). keep trying to jump on it, then once you do move forward and see how far you can go. it should be about halfway across the second piece, then something is blocking you.

i can't find another spot like that so far, if i could just find one like that on the first piece, it should be easy to go to the ice door.
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:39:28 PM
Hi.

Incredible the amount of post this topic gets.

Since most people are into speed runs i have a question, why not going to phendrana once you got the ice beam trough twin fires?

I know someone must have post this already but its very logical. On the way you take the plasma beam, then the elevator, bomb expansion at phendranas edge and the artifact in the same room fight the monster etc.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:56:38 PM
No one every answered my question earlier. How should I write it out as a walkthrough bit if you are bomb jumping up to that Spider Ball block in Geothermal Core (in case you're getting Plasma after Thardus, like I currently have written in my guide. I remember banks saying something about it, but I can't remember what he said to do. All of my bomb jumps make me fall off the metal rail when I come back down (not getting close enough to latch on, I think).

-Tim
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:57:05 PM
1. can you get Phendrana's Edge PB expansion without the grapple beam?
2. if you could, getting this expansion could let you get the artifact right away, saving a trip back..
3. I just fought Thardus with the X-Ray Visor... nothing special =( you almost don't see him, unless you are very close, and you can't lock on him until the piece's casing is broke. All in all, it's useless but fun :) it's fun to own him with Plasma Beam heh
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/3/2003 6:58:20 PM
Yes, you can get the expansion. I think i said that a long time ago.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:00:56 PM
you get it using the same technique as for the artifact?
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:03:31 PM
Yes, you grab the bomb expansion without graple and drop right there for the artifact.

Something extrange. There are parasites and those flying creatures, in a ordinary game you are not supposed to be there so early. And when you arrive there in an ordinary game there are not parasites.

So why they programed those enemies if you arent suposed to be there?
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:06:27 PM
I noticed that too DEVILBIT, which makes me think they accounted for game-breaking, unless there's some kind of enemy algorithm applied to certain areas (sounds highly doubtful, but nevertheless is possible)

I *didn't* notice you mention before that you could get the pb exp at phendrana's edge. I recall trying it once without grapple and failing miserably. Will have to look at that again.
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:10:21 PM
Hi.

I think it was way back at the end of the ver. 1 topic.

But now you know, you can grab it without much effort, just L spring jump.
Im not going into conspiracy theorys here, but i just tough that those different enemies there was something interesting.
Either way is incredible how well programed the game is, with all this skiping and out of other pick ups going on and glitching that much.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:12:42 PM
I agree. Makes me think they may have designed some of the environments/enemy locations first and placed items in specific locations later on. Either way Retro = teh 455-k1x0r
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:15:07 PM
Should have been "and not glitching that much".

Since Mr. Zell is here, i have something to say:
Was surfing around and stumble a webpage with almost all the categories of your web site. Aware of this? Thats all Zells hard work.
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:16:37 PM
are you bomb jumping up to the piece with the light bulb? i remember getting up there with a single bomb jump before, just do it under the bottom side and grab on, it should work.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:31:35 PM
oh, the section i was talking about wasn't right next to the door. It was off one of the platforms on ANOTHER section of a cliff at the top of the room, about halfway across the spiderball course (if i remember correctly).

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From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:33:44 PM
LOL

sorry, i'm just thinking about how little sense this would make to someone who didn't know what the triple bomb jump was or didn't know you could get the items out of order...

it's a funny thought
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:43:49 PM
In case any of you haven't read about the Secret Worlds glitch, i'll post it here.

There's a guy who found a way to get through a crack you're not supposed to go through in transport tunnel C which glitches the game. I haven't tried it yet, so i don't know what it's like. Going to test it now.

Amasawa: if you could, repost that guys post here, and make sure to include his name. Maybe this can be used to bypass some rooms o_O
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 7:50:48 PM
not a bad thought, but I don't think it will help because once you clip through a wall, the collision's screwed up for good.

Anyway, here it is:

FROM METROIDPRIMED FORUMS

Drale Aran's Metroid Prime Secret World Tutorial and Guide Rewrite.
Hope this is better.
Tutorial&Guide
Walkthrough
Okay, first of all go to Transport Tunnel C in Tallon Overworld, but you have to get to it from the Chozo Ruins. You with me so far?
Anyway, to get there from the Chozo Ruins, go to the Reflecting Pool, the one with all of the Stone Toads. Tell me if you ever get lost along the way. Anyway, use the Boost Ball go up to the Save Room that is across from the room where you get the Ice Beam.
Save if you want, but that's not why you're here. Go into the bomb yourself up to Morph Ball tunnel.
Roll through the tunnel and you will come out at an elevator. Take this elevator to the Tallon Overworld. You with me?
Alright, go into the hall and walk until you see the tree that is right in the middle of the room and has roots blocking the way. You see what I'm talking about?
Okay, you see the first set of roots in front of you? The low one that only has two roots right next to each other, one on top and one on the bottom? If you see what I'm talking about then jump on top of the top root.
Go up to the trunk of the tree and press and hold R and pull the Control Stick all the way back until you're looking all the way up.
Now let go of the R button and the Contral Stick, but at the SAME time press and hold the L button so that you're locked on while looking up. You still with me?
Anyway, you see the crack around the tree? Get under the area that's above the root you're standing. Keep on looking up until you get in the Secret World. Anyway, while you're under the crack jump once and then the second you hit the ceiling use double-jump. You understand what I'm saying?
Well if you know what I mean then do this over and over again until you squeeze through the crack and are in the Secret
World.
Warnings
Once you are in the Secret World you have to be careful of a few things. I have them layed out here.

1. .:Oblivion:. If you go in to Morph Ball form you will fall into what I call Oblivion. You will continue to fall untill you come out of Morph Ball mode. Once you are out of Morph Ball mode you are just stuck in a black hole. THERE IS NO WAY OUT!!! But the only thing to do down here is go in to Morph Ball and start falling and drop bombs as you go, weee :P.

2. .:Jumping:. The only way to jump is to aim to where you're jumping to.

I'll update you if there is anything else you need to know about the Secret Worlds.

I also run something called "The Secret World Hunters." We, of course, look for Secret Worlds in Metroid games. If you want to join just send me a U2U.

If you hve any questions just send me a U2U. Thank You.

-Drale Aran-

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From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/3/2003 8:52:38 PM
Wow, this topic exploded since I last saw it.

Anyway, I'm just postin' to say I just got the Ice Beam Early via the second method (its not the tjb method), and am on my way to get the Gravity Suit before facing Thardus. Whhhhhhheeeeeeee!!!!!!!

:p

This is gonna be fun, watching as the amount of damage that Thardus can deliever becomes nearly "didly-squat" thanks to the Gravity Suit....
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 9:00:00 PM
man still can't get space jump before flaahgra.

with a dbjm i don't get enough height, with a tbjm i get on the ledge easily but she slides off every time, even if i get the running animation.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 9:02:27 PM
kip-
Funny as it is, when i got up the ledge with dbjm, i saw the glide animation.
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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/3/2003 9:55:38 PM
hey. im back from work. any new interesting discoveries?
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:00:27 PM
Kip: I keep hitting something before the spider ball track; I don't know what it is. Whatever I'm hitting is bouncing me slightly outward so that I simply roll down that sloping ledge and into the lava :P

I tried DBJM'ing and grabbinb on, but that was far from successful. I'll go try it again. If I keep it after Thardus, it would only be an additional minute navigating the track itself...

-Tim
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:13:01 PM
tlj- why dont you just space jump on the block? it's not that hard imo O_o
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:16:01 PM
a) I suck at the Space Jump thing.

b) I got tons of emails and complaints about how they couldn't get Plasma before Thardus, so to accomodate not-as-experienced players, I stuck it after Thardus, but am having trouble with the bomb jump maneuver =P

-Tim
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:18:57 PM
tlj- even if you suck at space jump, you can wedge yourself between the track and the wall if you face it the right way. So when you're stuck, you can just morph ball / hold R and you're right on the track. I did that before i understood how to space jump on top of it =p
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:20:49 PM
oh and Zell, i just got a thought-

Why don't you post an active link on the web site to the current version of this topic? That way, instead of having a guest book, they could come here if they're having trouble with anything.
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:22:58 PM
Hmm, I'll go try that then. Thanks again banks.

-Tim
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:23:04 PM
damn, i just realized i didn't have my discovery fix for today. must... discover... something...
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:23:52 PM
How about working on metroid quarantine A some more =p
must....get..... phazon suit > thardus..........
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:29:24 PM
It's official.

I hate Metroid Quarantine A. =P =}
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 10:32:27 PM
I'd probably say i hate the rock jump to spacejump even more because i know that it's possible, and metroid quarantine A at the moment is not. Since you guys are doing that room, i may as well too =p
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:01:51 PM
Zell, im in metroid quarantine A now, but i'm not quite sure where you're getting a foothold on the track. Could you go a little more indepth, please?
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From: chyse728 | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:03:37 PM
kip, what have i told you before about smoking discoveries? they're bad for your health, man
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:05:09 PM
but they're so much cheaper than premium brand!
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:09:11 PM
give yourself a free ride to the ice door with the spider ball, then turn around so that the spider ball track is to your right. push against the wall and keep space jumping until she lands on top of it (move forward if isn't working, or jump off the ledge while hugging the wall, even).

once on it, move forward until you can't go anymore because something's blocking you. that's where you'd have to land, i guess. i can reach it from the ledge on the other side of the trick, but i can't get high enough.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:15:16 PM
If sticking to the right helps, have you tried Facing towards the opposite end of metroid quarantine A, So that you jump back and hold right? Maybe something like that could catch it =X

But if height is the problem, i'm not sure what to tell you. Can you reach the spider ball track from the pipe?
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:15:49 PM
I'm just waiting for another item to be found not necessary. It's the artifacts that are the whole point for beating the game anyway. But I did a low-percent run without knowing I could skip the grapple beam, beat that damned Omega with no energy tanks and everything. I don't wanna do it again for one dang percent. I'm waiting until one more item drops off before I try it again.

*crosses fingers* common super missle. Gotta be another way into the sunchamber or... maybe you can break the cordite with your head or something. Because no super missle means maybe no charge beam, and that'd be sweeeet...

I'm too lazy to go experiment myself though :P
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:19:11 PM
It would be DIFFICULT to do a low % run w/o the charge beam. I tried it at first when I was going to try to destroy the cordite with power bombs and got my ass handed to me repeatedly. I couldn't even get past Ore Processing -- and this was on Normal mode. o_O I do wish we could find a way around the sunchamber artifact problem w/o the spider ball so we'd have an incentive to try, though.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:21:10 PM
i haven't been able to reach the track from the pipe. actually it feels like it's harder to get there than jumping directly to the ice door... but i didn't try many times.

i guess no one managed to get in the alcove without sliding off? from there it'd be easy to space jump to the ice door.
From: regmcube | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:22:41 PM
WOW! !! that triple bomb thing is AMAZING! it took me 20 minutes to make it work right..but WOW! you guys are freaking obsessed with this, i bow down to you good sirs.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:23:22 PM
I tried it also and just couldn't seem to get the height I needed. I tried from the pipe as well and fell way short. I think I'm going to give up on it for a while.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:25:06 PM
yeah, ore processing would be a ***** since there's 2 power troopers next to each other. my strat for hard low % is always to creep up on them and open with a super missile, then rapid firing to finish it off before the other one comes over to attack me. then i can beat him easily 1vs1 by maintaining distance and space jumping over yellow shots.

but without that super missile it'd be much harder to pass that room. not to mention no freezing ice troopers, no stunning waves till they die... it could still be done though, it'd just be a lot harder.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:27:41 PM
Yeah I'll say this, if someone somehow pulls off avoiding having to scale the sun tower or finds a way up with without needing charge/super missles...I will bow down to whoever manages to actually beat a low percentage game without charge....certain parts of the game are just nasty without it...aka phazon mines and the now very evil wave troopers heh
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:28:46 PM
"that triple bomb thing is AMAZING! it took me 20 minutes to make it work right..but WOW!"

cool, but i hope you're not using it to go into the furnace for early ice beam... just save your sanity and use the other method. =]
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:30:32 PM
WOW! !! that triple bomb thing is AMAZING!

I agree, regmcube. It's pretty ****ing brilliant and I'm still amazed Banks was able to lay it out so clearly. It seems pretty natural to use that tech now, but you should have seen me puzzling over it when I was first reading how to do the tech. =D I can't imagine writing it.
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:38:50 PM
I imagine a lot of us would still be bored with the standard routes if it hadn't been for banks introducing us to the Triple Bomb Jump. ^_^

Eh, I don't know why I never tried the wedging method of latching onto the Spider Ball track, but of course the one time I didn't care if I fell (and actually stopped trying so damn hard), I landed atop the light bulb quite flawlessly...

-Tim
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:41:52 PM
heh it took me about 2 days of playing with it before I could really pull it off sucessfully and only just about now am I really getting comfortable with it. Guess part of it is I just don't ahve the time(perhaps madness? j/k :D ) that some of you guys do to really experiment with this stuff. I'll do the runs and try out the new stuff thats discovered but I just don't have the time and definately not the patience to work this stuff out like you guys do.

Plus I'm just not as good as I used to be at this gaming thing anymore LOL. Best speed run I've pulled is a 3:03. Major kudos to you guys who are working this stuff out though...wish we had an insider over at Retro cause I really wish we knew how much of this they intended on purpose and how much of it has them going "#$$% how did we miss *that* one in testing!" :)
From: kip | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:47:16 PM
about quarantine A, if only you could jump on frozen metroids and you didn't slide off eventually, and it reset the number of jumps you used (so you got space jump capability back). =[

looking for another way. none of you guys managed to jump in the alcove by the pipe without sliding off, right?
From: Videogaming | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:50:22 PM
I'm not sure it would be -humanly- possible to beat the game without the charge beam in a low% game. Let's just hope that it is necessary.

Just wondering, is space jump before Flaagrah, and wave before space jump, confirmed? (i.e. more than one person has done it)
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/3/2003 11:54:09 PM
DEVILBIT and I have both done wave beam before space jump, and I think at least zell has too; I'm not sure who else has tried it. I've got it down pretty well now so if people are still having trouble with it maybe I can rewrite the description with more details or screenshots or something.
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 12:00:26 AM
kip-
Yeah, every time i've jumped to that nook, i've slid right off. I thought that that ledge would have been the way to reach the door when i was first able to jump onto the pipe, but since then i know better =(

Sigh, i feel like we've really hit a wall in that room. =\ i guess i'll fiddle around with the spider ball tracks some more.
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/4/2003 12:00:45 AM
I've done Wave Beam before Space Jumps, but haven't saved (it took me soooo much time) and I got it after the Space Jump in my game... but I can confirm it's possible, I've gotten to the top of the Temple using dbjm and it was hell. I'll have to practice this more someday..
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From: vivagorditas007 | Posted: 2/4/2003 12:01:40 AM
I am at the part with the Plasma Beam where you are on the metal ledge below the white door. So my question is, does anyone have a video of how to jump onto the square spider track piece? I have tried it and can't nearly make enough hight and I am confused about what the walkthrough is talking about on the website, so if anyone can clarify as to where to stand and how to jump to get on the square part of spider track I will be very thankful.
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/4/2003 12:07:14 AM
Yeah, Zell's got an .avi video at the site. Check the link below and look for the Plasma Before Thardus section (or the VIDEOS link)

-Tim
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 12:08:40 AM
quarantine A's solution is probably something not obvious. probably you jump from some spot to some wall and you get stuck and it resets your jumps used, then you can space jump on the track/to the ice door.

doesn't help that it's so dark and it's hard to experiment with jumping against walls here though. we need to get more people on this or something...
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 12:09:54 AM
would be easier to experiment by exploring this room the first time you visit it (i.e. before the lights go out). Guess I should get going on a game with that in mind.
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 12:14:17 AM
I actually maneuver around the room with the x-ray visor on. But when you get near a wall it turns bright white =\
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 1:17:12 AM
bah, still can't find anything new about the room. i think that's enough for now; when there's some other stuff to check out i'll be around.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 1:17:56 AM
kip-
check out the glitch in transport tunnel c o_O
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:56:34 AM
Hi.

Something funny but not very usefull. You can get the artifact of strenght (the one at magmor) without using the boost ball bridge.

Just climb to the metal structure at the top of the room and space jump from there to the door. Whats interesting about this is that theres a ledge outside the door that serves exactly to land there with a space jump.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/4/2003 9:34:05 AM
LOL yeah I knew about that one...thats how I got the artifact the first time cause I was in a hurry trying to dodge some flying pirates since I didn't feel like dealing with them :D

I never really thought much about it myself and I used the boost ball bridge on most of my games afterwards...but yeah you can get the artifact of Strength that way. now if someone could figure out how to get across to the other door without the other spinner, that'd be one less place we'd need Boost.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:01:54 AM
actually I've jumped there from standing on top of the computers <=)
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:39:56 AM
Crossed the twin fire tunnel (the one with the spider track)without deeping into the lava, problem is cant manage to do it again.

Theres a ledge at the left of the entrance where is posible to climb then from there attempt a space jump, but is really hard, the reason to post this is if anyone knows another ledge where is posible to climb?

This is a nice shortcut and it woulb be nice to pass through it without having to waste 1-2 energy tanks.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:47:47 AM
I haven't been able to find any other useful ledges; sorry. I tried looking at both ends of the room to see if I could climb onto the spider ball track somehow, and I can almost make it at the far end (near geo core) but can't seem to get enough height.

the bomb jump is actually not difficult to make; you can easily make it through in under one tank. SHould work on hard mode too because I've lost so little doing it on normal but I have yet to try this. What you do is:

1) Jump from the ledge you're talking about out to the far end of the lava, near the ground on the other side that you want to get to.

2) Morph in midair before your hit the lava so you can do a bomb jump when you sink in

3) dbjm out of the lava and onto the ground. The drag of the lava will slow you a little bit, so it's helpful to delay the placement of the third bomb slightly (maybe just as you're starting to fall back down

It takes a little practice but is quite doable.
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:52:35 AM
Heh, I didn't know about that Space Jumping to the Artifact of Strength. I've got a file right before it, so I'll have to go try that out tonight. Might save about a minute on the clock...

Anyone else notice how time seems to go a lot faster when playing this game. From Thardus to the Plasma Beam and back to the beginning of Phendrana Shorelines, I swear it felt like only 12 minutes, but the game clocked in at 24 =P

-Tim
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:04:47 AM
Yes, already knew that way to get to the other side. Wish could pass that without the spider ball and without touching the magma.

Thanks anyway, for replaying.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 1:56:21 PM
.᥼.Bump.᥼.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 2:06:39 PM
hmm you know, that room where you get the energy tank by cooling the lava is a cool room according to the thermal visor (only one besides elevator rooms). think it would be possible to get there before flaahgra for a 4th energy tank?

i need to check the number of rooms on that path.
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 2:14:06 PM
twin fires tunnel, twin fires, north core tunnel, geothermal core, south core tunnel, magmoor workstation (the destination: you shouldn't be taking damage from lava once you get here, says the thermal visor).
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 2:17:56 PM
only thing is i don't have space jump in my "before flaahgra" file which would help a lot, and i've never done that dbjm out of the lava amasawa's talking about. i'm gonna try in a bit though. hopefully the lava doesn't do more damage the further you go like it does if you go through the chozo ruins path (instead of root cave).
From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/4/2003 2:23:23 PM
You can do that jump from the lava an loose 1-2 tanks maybe less, but was trying to get to the other side without touching the lava by climbing to the ledge and space jump.

Either way is a good shorcut.
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 2:53:55 PM
uh... hmm, i need space jump somehow. having trouble getting past twin fires tunnel, she takes too much damage by the time you get to that part where you do the dbjm. and i can't seem to jump to that "invisible ledge" with only 1 jump, i know what you guys are talking about though.

hey devilbit, do you happen to have a before flaahgra file with space jump and 3 tanks? interested in trying it out? =]
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 3:42:55 PM
If you did that, would you be able to fight Thardus without the wave beam? (made it to that 4th etank)
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/4/2003 3:44:31 PM
Dont have such file, havent erased my first three original games, when i try something we either use a save file or start from scratch then reset.

But exactly whats your master plan?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 3:46:57 PM
Devilbit-
I think kip wants to get that 4th e-tank so that he will have an extra 100 energy for when he tries to go into Phendrana Drifts the front way (through monitor station without varia suit).
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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/4/2003 3:47:03 PM
No, you still need wave to pass the door at plasma beam room.
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 3:49:45 PM
nevermind, it doesn't work anyway, there are wave beam doors on this path.
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 3:51:57 PM
doesn't make sense why that one room is a cool room though, and it holds an energy tank of all things.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/4/2003 4:51:05 PM
I have a very small thing I'd like to point out about the Varia Suit.

I am now almost 100% positive that cold temperatures will not harm you if you do not have the Varia Suit. Notice how the Varia Suit's description says nothing about cold temperatures damaging you. It only mentions heat. Besides, I doubt they would have bothered to program PD to damage you without the Varia Suit if you're not supposed to be able to get there without it in the first place.

Besides, it wouldn't really make any sense... Phendrana Drifts isn't THAT cold. C'mon, there are SPACE PIRATES hanging around there.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 4:52:20 PM
hope you're right, paratroopa. I swear one of these days someone's gonna stumble across a way to get there w/no Varia. <:-)
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From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/4/2003 4:53:41 PM
Yeah... if Phendrana Drifts damages you without the Varia Suit, then chances of beating the game without the VS are zip.
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 4:55:54 PM
I had a notion about the Wild Artifact that is the major charge beam and super missle need and one of the spider ball needs.

This would take a bit to do though I think so I don't want to try it, but maybe one of you all does.

Now the first time you are at the Sunchamber, you fight Flaahgra. You can't get the artifact.

Something after beating Flaahgra triggers the ghosts and artifact to be there.

Maybe it's a certain item that triggers it. If we knew exactly what it was you need to get to make the artifact appear in the Sunchamber, maybe you could get it before you fight Flaahgra. Then the first time you enter the Sunchamber, you beat Flaahgra, exit the room and just re-enter it, and the ghosts might be there.

Has it been figured out exactly how long after beating Flaahgra it takes to make the ghosts and artifacts show up? Maybe it's as simple as getting to the artifact temple and scanning the clue for it.

Sorry if this is an old idea.
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 4:58:12 PM
Maybe being able to get to Phendrana without Varia is a part of that... If you could fight Flaahgra last, and have everything else, surely something would trigger the artifact so you could just exit the room and come back in and fight the ghosts. If you can't get the artifact after having everything else, when can you?

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From: DEVILBIT | Posted: 2/4/2003 4:59:52 PM
Sorry for posting this because it isnt any integral gameplay tip or discussion.

When does metroid hit Japan? Itll be very interesting to see what the people over there come up with, maybe well learn some new stuff.

And as a side note. Think that reached the point in the game were the main tricks are laid out, it just a matter of trying in every room. Would be nice to know also, what wicked things the internal tester a retro came up with during development.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:02:16 PM
My best guess is that the Chozo Ghosts in the Sunchamber are triggered by the Chozo Ghost in the Hall of Elders... it would make sense, considering that's what triggers all the other Chozo Ghosts.

But then I'm wondering... if that happens, would it be impossible to get the Varia Suit from then on? Would the Artifact and Chozos never appear because Flaahgra would be there? Would the game glitch up? Or... perhaps... would you fight Flaahgra and the Ghosts at the same time? That would be awesome! O_o
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:02:56 PM
well, i don't think it's scanning the clue because going to the impact crater as the last thing (with the missile lock still on the door) is a popular thing in speed runs since people already know where the artifacts are. meaning they already have the wild artifact without having to scan the clue.

it could be a certain item, i'd love to test it out but i can't get to phendrana. and the only item it seems like you can get before flaahgra without going to phendrana is space jump. people have gotten it before flaahgra but nobody seems to have killed him with it and then tried to reload the sunchamber/sun tower access (hard to do because of the 2 room rule though; you could probably reload sunchamber but not sun tower access).
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:05:51 PM
"My best guess is that the Chozo Ghosts in the Sunchamber are triggered by the Chozo Ghost in the Hall of Elders... it would make sense, considering that's what triggers all the other Chozo Ghosts."

i was thinking that too... if it wasn't for the wave beam door on the way to hall of elders, you could fight that ghost before flaahgra and try it out.

i don't think it's thardus' death or the spider ball since when you go to hall of elders before thardus, the ghost is obviously there. i'd assume it means the sunchamber ones have appeared too.
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:06:07 PM
You should be able to reload the Sunchamber by going to Sun Tower Access and then Sun Tower and coming back. I tried it today in my current game just after beating Flaahgra but nothing happened, so it's definately something later that triggers it...

You know, it would be actually quite easy to figure out what triggers it, just time-consuming. All you have to do is go check the door- are there vines covering it or not? Unless I'm missing something. :\
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:07:57 PM
hmm, actually, i think i remember getting the sunchamber artifact before fighting the ghost in hall of elders. so i think it's one of those that triggers ghosts appearing everywhere else besides those 2 rooms (whichever one you go to first).
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:08:33 PM
It's not the ghost in the hall of elders, as in the one before the ice beam that triggers the other ghosts I think.

Because you know those thorns that block going to the Sunchamber via Sunchamber access?

I'm there right now, trying to see if I can't go through them with clever bomb jumping or something

I haven't gotten the spider ball or ice beam yet, and there's no ghosts anywhere

There must be in the Sunchamber though, or else why would the thorns be there?

I have the thermal visor and Space Jump and super missles and wave beam and space jump and boost ball right now. One of those has to do it
---
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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:09:50 PM
"hope you're right, paratroopa. I swear one of these days someone's gonna stumble across a way to get there w/no Varia. <:-)"

heheh that reminds me. i saw some guy who asked a question about metroid then said "im not a n00b though. iv made it to phendrana without the varia suit". what a n00b he was -_-.
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:13:38 PM
Okay, I have not currently beaten Tharudus in the game I am on right now.

I am in Sunchamber access. The vines/thorns are on the door.

I did not go to the Hall of Elders yet or get the Ice Beam.

We've beaten the game without the Thermal Visor before so I know it's not that that triggers the artifact.

Super Missles, Boost Ball, Wave Beam or Space Jump have to be it.

Three of those are in Phendrana though, and at this point we need the Varia to get there. Grrrr...

---
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:15:37 PM
My bomb-jump through the vines ain't working either. I've found a place where I can get stuck in them, and a place where I can roll up them a bit, but still can't get to the other side.

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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:17:13 PM
try real hard and who knows? mebbe you will get lucky? go nuts with bombs!
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:27:05 PM
hmm, guess i'll experiment a little with that. i'll beat flaahgra without space jump or anything special, then drop down the sun tower and go back the other way, and i'll see if the vines are there.

if not, then i'll try going to phendrana and back, and maybe getting the wave beam only if i can manage to do it. and boost ball, i still can't do space jump without boost ball so...
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:33:35 PM
i just noticed on the nintendo dvd full of previews that samus is fighting flaahgra with wave beam. but the wave beams bouncing off O_o. i wonder if they left that in making wave beam useless agains the big oaf.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:34:24 PM
er... hold up, don't the vines appear right after flaahgra dies? literally, before you even get the varia suit.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:37:01 PM
uh... did they? I don't quite remember. Someone go beat Flaahgra and check. I'm exploring this spot above the vines where you can stand and if you face away from the door and morph and unmorph it does this weird thing where it morphs you twice. I did it once. I don't know if it's worth anything but I'm still trying to get through
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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:37:17 PM
i thought they appeared at the begining of the fight.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:38:19 PM
yeah he's right, it's right when the fight starts. he does that that one attack and it makes vines cover the door (samus dodges to the side in the cutscene).
From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:39:03 PM
oh yah, go me :)
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:40:09 PM
You mean you can't go out that door? I think I might remember something like that.

But then, ah damn if I had the spiderball I could get up the sun tower and see if the ghosts are there yet.

Maybe the ghosts don't appear when the vines do. Or maybe you just need to refresh the room somehow to get the ghosts to appear once Flaahgra is dead.

---
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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:40:13 PM
wait... is there one of those lock things on the doors or is there just the vines? if theres no lock maybe you can open the door and squeez you way out with the morph ball.
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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:41:31 PM
during the fight i mean.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:42:42 PM
there's no lock on the door with the vines, but the other door is locked and the varia suit isn't there yet. so you can't grab the varia suit in the middle of the fight and leave through that way. =]
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:43:51 PM
"Or maybe you just need to refresh the room somehow to get the ghosts to appear once Flaahgra is dead"

kip and i have tried this previously with no success.
I'm on a save now that has ice beam but not spider ball and am messing around with the vine door now. I find it quite interesting you can open the door with a charged ice beam shot (this means you can open the door if you're able to get past the vines).

I think if this is possible, it'll have to do with some morphing/unmorphing ball jumping next to the vines, to try and slowly get past some of the clipping. I can seem to do this a little bit on the right side of the wall, but, can't go much further.
---
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From: l2ag3 | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:44:08 PM
but maybe if you left the room during the fight the ghosts or the varia suit would appear. yah never know.
---
"He stole our backup plan for just incase!" - Ben from Brave fencer musashi
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:46:06 PM
Fighting Flaahgra and 3 Chozo ghosts at the same time...

No don't think I'd wanna do that
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:47:06 PM
hey banks, when you look into the sunchamber, are you able to see if those white clouds are there or not? remember the ghosts look like white clouds before you go near them.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:48:52 PM
I too have been able to open the door with a charged wave shot. I don't see any clouds in there from here but I can't see much...
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:50:32 PM
Not much except the vines covering the OTHER side of the door that is. Which means even if I could get through this first set of vines, there's another one right there.

Hmmm... I'm gonna go to the Suntower and see about getting up without the spiderball
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 5:57:01 PM
I don't have the Ice Beam right now so if someone does a stupid question: If you freeze War Wasps, can you stand on them? Cause there's lots in Suntower

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:00:12 PM
Yeah the ghosts are in there.

When you have the music turned up, and you listen to the music before and after you open the door, you can hear their little pre-ghost appearance noises. (aaarrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhh) sounds
---
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:01:05 PM
Nah, they die to the ice beam in one shot on normal.

Even if they freeze on hard, you always slide off.
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:01:59 PM
1 shot still kills them on hard.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:06:45 PM
When does metroid hit Japan? Itll be very interesting to see what the people over there come up with, maybe well learn some new stuff.

I think the end of this month, IIRC. I've been poking around a couple of little boards looking for importers but haven't found any yet, just peeps anticipating the game... haven't looked very hard though.
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:10:30 PM
Man you're right. If I turn it up I hear them. Which begs the question... perhaps just refreshing the room isn't enough.

Someone do this:

Beat Flaahgra. Go AROUND to the Sunchamber access where the vines are.

I just opened the door with the power beam before saying this so it can be done. Stand back and to the right of the door and rapidly fire all around the right side of the door, it'll open easy.

Turn the voice up and see if the ghosts are there BEFORE getting anything else. Just after beating Flaahgra.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:13:03 PM
i have a save right before flaahgra so i'll handle that if i can get the door open. no chance that the plasma beam burns the vines? i was about to check it out but i stopped so i could do this.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:13:52 PM
hmm, couldn't tell you but the scan of the vines says "Impervious to all weaponry"
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:21:51 PM
I found a great spot. Riiight in front of the weird symbol to the right of the vines, stand there and face left and your shots go right into the door. I'm shooting power beams and missle right into the room. If I could get the ghosts to appear I might be able to kill them all from here :P
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:21:55 PM
Someone already tested it, and plasma doesn't destroy the vines.
---
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:25:01 PM
The reason you can only hear them and not see them is because, you have to go So far into the room before the white clouds show up and they begin to come into vision.

And i'm pretty sure they come out of flaahgra's dead body, as well as the artifact.

I think it's just a matter of finding a way through the vines or, finding the exact trigger for the ghosts to appear. (most likely leaving the chozo ruins after defeating flaahgra)
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:27:24 PM
yes, i hear them. i turned off the music and turned up the volume a lot. the room isn't dark though... but that's because you have to go near them IIRC.

so, if someone can glitch their way past the vines, i suppose you have 25%, 24% if you can find a way past quarantine A without spider ball.
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:30:14 PM
btw, items were: 3 energy tanks, 30 missiles, missile launcher, morph ball, morph ball bombs, charge beam, varia suit.

if you want me to, i could start a new game and get there with 99 energy/5 missiles and no charge beam and test it again... so that the only items are the necessary pickups.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:31:25 PM
So that's it. I guess no items are the trigger. It's just getting far enough away than a simple room refresh I guess. Either find a way past the vines or figure out a way to get far enough away without losing your way back.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:33:59 PM
No I doubt that does it. After all we've beaten the game with no energy tanks or missle expansions and the artifact was still there.

Hmmmm, what to be done. I don't suppose you can grapplebeam onto the oculuses in the sunchamber, that's no good though because we want to skip the grapple beam to.

I'm just gonna keep trying to bomb or unmorph past the vines

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:37:49 PM
>Fighting Flaahgra and 3 Chozo ghosts at the same time...

No don't think I'd wanna do that

If the trigger system that game uses acts like the one that is in the StarCraft map editor, we may not have to.

Most likely in a scenario in which we fight flaahgra last, as we approach/enter the room, the game'll probably process the triggers like this:

Trigger X (the one we don't know): has been activated.

Trigger 2: Is Flaahgra dead? Running check....no. Override Trigger X.

Trigger Logic System's Result: Do not load Chozo Ghost fight, proceed with Flaaghra Battle.

As far as what "Trigger X" would be, it'd be ironic as heck if it was the activation of all 4 runic symbols in the Sun Tower. :p
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:38:38 PM
but most people probably had the charge beam at that point when they got the artifact. although even if it was the charge beam, the super missile wouldn't be needed, so at the least you'd have 26%, 25% if you can go past quarantine A. and then 24% if charge beam isn't what triggers those ghosts.

it seems to be just reloading the room. i've tried jumping off in sun tower then coming back to the top ledge before i land, and it didn't work. so, i have reason to believe it's reloading sun tower access (too close to the top of the sun tower for a reload), which also reloads sunchamber.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:40:05 PM
can't be the runic symbols though if they can hear the ghosts from the other side of the sun chamber. means it's already been triggered somehow and all they have to do is get into the room.
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:41:38 PM
it's weird that you can fire a fully charged power beam shot into the sunchamber and it goes through the vines if you do it from the right side.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:43:49 PM
that is weird. A lot of that vine is decoration. There's spots where there's no vine that you can't fire through. It's probably a big square wall that's just painted to look like a bunch of vines.

And of course if you want to try getting there without the charge beam and seeing if the ghosts are still there it always helps to have one more item ruled out as the trigger.

If only we could trick the game into forgetting the Sunchamber was loaded, so it would have to reload. Like wipe some of the RAM or something. That's not very likely though.

What makes a room load, other than going far away? Nothing, right?

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:44:07 PM
hmm, i did a dbjm on the right side and i ended up on top of the vines. door closed though, but i guess a morph ball bomb would open it if i can just get close enough.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:45:07 PM
sometimes opening and closing a door before Samus moves through it, but kip already tried that w/ sunchamber access i believe.
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 6:53:41 PM
i'm sure they did it that way on purpose, the room after sun tower access you have to fall down and you can't go back there, so when you leave sun tower and you enter the elevator to magmoor, it reloads sun tower access and sunchamber.
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:02:17 PM
Would it be possible to use a gameshark to isolate the trigger?

For example, use it to give Samus the Super Missile, Charge Beam, and the Spider Ball, Morph Ball, and MB-Bombs, while using a save file that's shortly before Flaahgra?

My idea is to beat Flaaghra, leave, use the Super Missile/Spider Ball stuff to get back up there, and see if you can trigger it as early as that.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:03:53 PM
I found something very minor.

You don't have to go 2 rooms away to make the game forget a room

You have to LOAD 2 rooms away. You can try this and see:

3 rooms. Arboretum, sunchamber lobby, and sunchamber access

Go to the arboreturm from the lobby. Enter the tunnel. There's a block you must bomb to break. break it.

Go to the lobby. Go just far enough in the lobby so you can see the door to the access. Shoot it and go back the way you came.

Shooting it loaded the access room, even though you didn't enter it. The block in arboretum is back.

What I'm trying to say is this: To reload sun tower access, you don't need to leave sun tower, just shoot the door at the bottom

Is there any way with any weapon to shoot the door so it stops being blue without having to jump all the way down?

If you do, and can get back up, that may do it

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:05:59 PM
it might be better to just give her infinite space jumps or something (without having the item itself). fall down, jump back up, see if they're there.

if not, enter the elevator to magmoor, then turn around and space jump up, then i bet they'd be there since i can hear them on the other side and i didn't leave chozo ruins yet, i just went back around after beating flaahgra.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:10:59 PM
Scratch that. Trying this more I realize it's not shooting the door to sunchamber access that reloads arboretum, it's just going far from it.

If you go halfway through the lobby without shooting the door and go back, it still reloads arboretum. Apparently some rooms only need you to go a room and a half away to reload.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:11:25 PM
i've tried something before like that, but i guess i might try it again after i eat: in sun tower, i turned around facing the door to sun tower access, then i walked back to the edge and jumped off as far as i could go, then fired at the door in midair and landed back on the ledge. it didn't work.

also, there is one thing i've noticed about sun tower, near the top of the room there's this rock ledge. if you jumped down there you could probably shoot and open the sun tower access door from there. but the problem is i don't know how to get back to sun tower access, even with space jump. but i didn't try very hard. there could be a part of the wall you can land on, then from there you can space jump back to sun tower access... it really depends if that's going far away enough to reload it though, you know? no way to tell from what i can see.

to see what i mean about the rock ledge, load up your 100% game and ride to the top of sun tower, then look down at the wall, you should see it. jump down there.
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:22:36 PM
well, not sure how to do this. only interesting thing i can do is dbjm on the right side and end up on top of the vines, but when i try to keep morphing in and out of ball form to get through, i just fall off.
From: Mario Cleanstuff | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:24:32 PM
IDEA!!! Could it be possible to get morphball bombs, blah, spiderball, could you TBJ up the little gap in the spiderball tracks in the Sun Tower (that you scan the runes for) all the while holding R, could you make it up?! It might make the charge beam/super missiles skippable, and the ghosts fightable?

---
"I tend to procrastinate, and sometimes I even put that off." -Me
Whoosh. 'Splode. Sploosh. Squat. CALL ME STUPID!!!
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:27:46 PM
No, you can't tbj over the obstacle in the sun tower.
I've tried it, and the bottom of the barrier acts as a ceiling and when you bomb, you go out horizontal, not vertical =(
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:27:50 PM
i think banks tried that, but what i want to know is if you can land on that blockage if you space jump there. then it'd just be a matter of finding somewhere to jump from (you can jump from the wasp hives but you can't get close enough it seems like).
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:52:37 PM
kip I think you're right about Sun Tower Access being the magic room to reload. I just got there on my 100 percent game and that ghost still flies out in front of you going towards Sunchamber when you enter Sun Tower Access. That must need to be there.

Useless fact about reloading Sun Tower Access:

On my 100 percent game, I went to Sun Tower Access like I said from the Sun Tower

When I opened the door, there was a ghost there that just flew back towards the Sun Chamber. Didn't attack or anything, I figure it must just be an effect.

Now I tried going up and down Sun Tower a hundred times, that ghost wouldn't come back.

THEN, I went to Sun Chamber. No ghosts or anything there of course since I got the artifact. I went all the way across the room to the other door. I didn't shoor it or open it, but I just went there. Then I went back to Sun Tower Access.

The ghost was back. It wouldn't appear however until I got to the door leading to Sun Tower.

When I did get to that door, the ghost appeared and attacked me! I got hurt and everything!

My point, aside from mentioning that the ghost attacked me and IS NOT just a visual effect, is this

Going across Sunchamber seems to reload Sun Tower Access.

Perhaps one needs to beat Flaahgra, go through Sun Tower Access, Enter Sun Tower then go back through Sun Tower Access to the Sun chamber. Go to the door that's all vined up, maybe open the door, then go back to Sun Tower Access. Perhaps that room has refreshed, maybe you'll see a ghost attack you, and then you just need to go back to Sunchamber to get the artifact.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:55:02 PM
P.S. You can see and shoot the door to the Sunchamber Lobby from the Sunchamber. If you can shoot straight somehow and get a shot through you maybe can load the lobby from the Sunchamber. Surely that's enough to refresh sun tower access.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Paratroopa1 | Posted: 2/4/2003 7:56:24 PM
This is probably pointless, but what if you could somehow shoot the door at the bottom of Sun Tower from the top of Sun Tower...? Nah, nevermind, too high up. :\
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:01:03 PM
okay, i'll try that soon. so let me see if i got this... beat flaahgra, go to sun tower and go back to sunchamber without jumping down, open the door behind the vines and get as close as i can, then go to sun tower access and see if there's a ghost and the bombu is gone?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:02:00 PM
Youkai: sounds good enough to me, i'll test it right now.
I could have sworn i did something like that before, but i probably didn't open the door to the room before the sun chamber.
---
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From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:03:20 PM
Yep, that's my theory.

I still can't believe that ghost hit me. I thought it was a PROP. Watch out for it if you see it. He'll blindside you.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:21:02 PM
hmm, having trouble opening that door behind the vines. seems harder to open from this side. any ideas?
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:25:02 PM
Hmmm, well I don't have a save file before Flaahgra so I can't look at it. If you can't open it, maybe just going to the door was enough to reload it. Try going back to the Tower Access from there and see if there's a ghost. If not, the door most likely wouldn't make a difference, the room should reload regardless, since it did for me without shooting the door.

If there's no ghost, then I guess you have to get farther away from BOTH rooms.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:31:06 PM
Dunno if anyone already covered this before, but I think I nailed down the trigger that causes the Tallon Overworld theme to change.

Shocklingly enough, it appears to be a position-based trigger, not dependant on what items you've got.

Case in Point:On my "Ice Beam Before Thardus" file, I didn't take either of the two elevators to the Tallon Overworld, instead I backtracked to the one that is near the Main Plaza, and used that one, resulting in it still playing the Brinstar Remix for the music. Went back to Phendrana, got the Thermal Visor (although I still haven't fought Thardus yet), came back to the T. Overworld using the Main Plaza elevator, and it was still playing the Brinstar Remix.

Now, for the heck of it, tried to see how far into the Crashed Frigate I could get w/o the Gravity Suit, and got as far as the Energy Tank that's in the destroyed Elevator with all the Aqua Reapers before I had to turn back.

Upon leaving the Crashed Frigate (out the same way I came in), it started playing the new Overworld theme (not the Brinstar Remix).

So, my thinking is that in theory, you could trigger the music change early if you were able to access ANY part of the Overworld that is "behind" the Crashed Frigate. By the same token, you could probably prevent the music from changing if you avoid taking any of the elevators to that area and avoid going thru the wrecked ship.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:31:19 PM
Yeah i'm having no luck here.

I've run back and forth across the sun tower and sun chamber's extremes and the ghost never loads. I've even tried opening my gamecube cover while in both rooms to see if it reloads the room data but i'm not getting any such luck.

And kip, i wasn't able to open that door from the inside as well.

When you saw the ghost, was the floating energy monster still in the room dropping energy?
---
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:31:31 PM
the crates appear again, but i don't see a ghost, and that bombu is still there. i keep trying to open that door behind the vines but it isn't working. what's weird is when you look at the sunchamber from the other side, you don't see many vines, only on the side you're on (in sunchamber access).
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:33:12 PM
>On my "Ice Beam Before Thardus" file, I didn't take either of the two elevators to the Tallon Overworld...

Correction: I meant I didn't take either of the Elevators that are nearby the Ice Beam's location.
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:38:53 PM
No, the bombu wasn't there when I saw the ghost. Nor was it there when I didn't see the ghost. Whatever triggers the ghosts seem to make the bombu go away.

Well, no progress I suppose. If the crates are back then Sun Chamber Access is definitely reloading. Just whatever triggers the ghosts hasn't been triggered at that point. How strange...

Going around to Sunchamber access was enough to make the ghost noises appear in Sunchamber. Somewhere along the way around it was triggered.

Not that it really matters where. Once you exit Sun Tower to go around you can't get back up. Oh well. It was a good hunt, but I guess the reload idea is a flop. I guess it's all about getting to the Chamber through the vines or the tower now.
---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:39:20 PM
heh, i even tried pulling the bombu away from the door as far as he would go (a bit before the tangle weeds it seems that he won't go any further, and you can't pull him through doors into other rooms).
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:42:13 PM
Not that it really matters where. Once you exit Sun Tower to go around you can't get back up. Oh well. It was a good hunt, but I guess the reload idea is a flop. I guess it's all about getting to the Chamber through the vines or the tower now.

Perhaps you should try to exploit that same spider ball track "clipping bug" (the one that allows you to get the Ice Beam early w/o the tjb tech) to slowly make your way up to a suitable location?

At this point, it's worth a try....
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:43:10 PM
it's probably entering "transport to magmoor caverns north".
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 8:45:13 PM
hmm, i've tried doing that but it doesn't seem to work the same way as the furnace track (i guess because it's sloped a bit).
From: Youkai Sesshoumaru | Posted: 2/4/2003 9:00:32 PM
For some reason I am thinking that the answer may lie in either

1. Fighting Flaahgra but NOT getting the Varia, simply jumping down the Sun Tower and going around again. After all, are you just screwed if you don't get the Varia? The game must give you a chance to go back and get it some how encase you're too stupid to see it or something, or

2. Getting the Varia but NOT Fighting Flaahgra. Much as the dormant Thardus glitch, if you got the Super Missle and Spider Ball before fighting Flaahgra, and entered the Sun Chamber from the back door, the fight wouldn't start, and the vines wouldn't appear, then you could go around and no vines would be there.

Of course 2 means getting the Spider Ball and Super Missle, which would defeat the whole point of getting to the Wild artifact via Sunchamber access, not to mention require getting to Phendrana without Varia, so that one is just stupid.

---
Santa Claus: "Your fondness of cheese won't help you now, evil wizard!"
Daolon Wong: "That's CHI not CHEESE!" -- Jackie Chan Adventures
From: Ragnarok72 | Posted: 2/4/2003 9:03:40 PM
>1. Fighting Flaahgra but NOT getting the Varia, simply jumping down the Sun Tower and going around again. After all, are you just screwed if you don't get the Varia? The game must give you a chance to go back and get it some how encase you're too stupid to see it or something....

Already tried that, its a no-go.

There door is sealed with that "Secure Area to open door" type of lock. In this case, "Securing the Area" is acquiring the Varia Suit.
From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 9:07:16 PM
the door to sun tower access is locked until you pick up the varia suit (the one to sunchamber access never is though). the varia suit also isn't there until flaahgra's dead.

looking from sunchamber access i think i can see something that looks like smoke coming up from flaahgra's body, when you go back there later is there supposed to be smoke while you fight the ghosts?

and also, i already mentioned i can dbjm on top of the vines, but i can't make any progress past that. what i don't understand is how your shots can actually go into the sunchamber and hit a wall, yet if you try shooting into sunchamber access from sunchamber something's blocking it (even if you just try to open the door from the sunchamber).
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:29:27 PM
Wow, never thought it would get this far ;)

Anyway, I'm not sure how particularly useful this would be, but in my 100% speed run today, I found what might be a new way of getting to the Mines while skipping the Frigate (and thus getting the X-Ray Visor a bit early, it just involves running through the Ruins and heading back to the Reflecting Pool (you could do it the first run, but you won't get to the end of Phazon w/o the Plasma Beam...maybe getting the Power Bombs before Thardus and the Artifact of Warrior though?

Anyway, from the Reflecting Pool, take the Ice Beam door at the back to reach Transport Tunnel D which deposits you in the Great Tree Hall. Head into the Mines using the door at the bottom, and you can grab the Power Bomb early I suppose. Then get the X-Ray on your way out and use that against Thardus...

-Tim
---
<<Prime Discoveries>>
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:32:32 PM
isn't there a gate blocking your way, until you use a spinner device which makes it go away?
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:42:51 PM
Yes kip, the grate is still there. tlj probably never thought of that since he never went through a game without going through the crashed frigate first. (i had the same thought at first as well) =p
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:45:25 PM
Well...now I feel dumb. =P

-Tim
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 10:57:54 PM
not as bad as me trying to go to magmoor workstation before flaahgra earlier today (for a 4th energy tank) but forgetting there are wave beam doors all over that path. and the reason it probably shows up as a cool room in thermal view is because i put it on after getting the energy tank and cooling the lava.

although i should still check it out and see if it shows as a cool room before you get the tank. =]
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:13:24 PM
Yeah but i am the king of false hopes =p

One day when i was working on space jump > flaahgra, just after doing the l-lock jump in fungal hall A, i was trying to lock jump from the back of samus's ship to the ledge behind it. To my suprise, i got it first try! my heart started to beat faster, i dropped off, got on top of the ship, and tried again. It worked! i was halfway through writing the revolutionary post when it hit me.

I had used space jump to reach the ledge.

Dooooooooooooooooooh~ =p
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From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:17:25 PM
LOL!!

That is too funny banks, because I did the same thing one day, except I did it from near the blue door leading to Canyon Cavern. I stood near the edge and l-lock-jumped to the next ledge and was all about to post here when I started thinking "wait a minute...that was *too* easy", then I realized I had Space Jumped...

-Tim
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:18:53 PM
although i should still check it out and see if it shows as a cool room before you get the tank. =]

it does, I'm sure of it. I skipped doing anything to get that tank during the last several runs and had the thermal visor on in that room during one of them. Doesn't make sense why, but that's the way it is.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:23:14 PM
With all this talk of second-guessing, I'm now wondering if I AM sure of that being a cool room beforehand. I think I may have been screwing around w/ a 100% file when I saw that. -_-
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From: kip | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:33:52 PM
heh even if it was cool before you get the energy tank it'd be useless unless someone gets to phendrana without varia some day.

also, i noticed you guys were talking about skipping boost ball in the high score thread, just for the hell of it i messed around in geothermal core (before spinners were used). i tried several times to L lock space jump to the spinner with the spider ball track but i always barely missed.

i also noticed that the "second" spinner platform (the one you jump to after landing on the first one from the spire of rock) has the socket where you use a morph ball bomb to make the track appear, but i tried everything i could think of to get to the socket. a tbj doesn't go high enough, nothing seems to. it's high up, so i have no idea how you'd use the socket without using the boost ball. and then you apparently need it to make the chozo artifact appear anyway.

what i don't get is how it seems like the big geo core spider ball track is there all along, but it's like impossible to see it until you use the socket. then something happens and it's there all over all of a sudden.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:39:45 PM
kip-
I think activating the socket causes the 3 pillars to Lift up the whole ceiling, revealing the track on the walls.
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/4/2003 11:49:50 PM
Kip, with the Sunchamber stuff, if you were willing to suffer to do it, getting the space jump and trying to make it only halfway down then trying to shoot the door could be valuable in determining where the trigger point is at. Either the game thinks that the thing is 2 rooms or its just opening that door to the elevator that does it. Its still looking like without space jump this is going to be impossible though and getting *that* early is like some form of painful suffering. The only other possibility would be figuring out how to make a Phendrana run which still requires the painful process of getting the SJ.

One way I guess we will be able to confirm all of this though is once the action replay comes out for the cube. It'll probably have an invincibility code for Prime letting us get through to Phendrana and at least test out a ton of theories. Once that sucker hits the market though we are going to need to split low percentage runs into modified and unmodified categories though. But just the ability to turn on something like invincibility will at least let us test out some theories(like Phendrana damage without Varia) and let us find those final nooks and cranies that we can use to break the game wihtout code modification. Should make for a useful tool.

As is, unfortunately its looking like Space Jump early is going to be the key to being able to cut this down any further...even if the no spiderball tests turn up results elsewhere, without figuring out the sunchamber we are flat out stuck. Dang you Space Jump early..why must you try us so?
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 12:00:49 AM
hehe, funny you should say that because i'm back trying to get space jump in my "before flaahgra" file right now... =[

i'll probably never stop trying until i get it, it's just frustrating. hey, i'm curious what you guys think, should i try to do it with tbjm or dbjm? IIRC no one did it using a tbjm yet, the only thing is i can never get enough height with dbjm, so i use tbjm instead... yet she slides off every time i get up there, running animation or not.
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 12:02:56 AM
also, i don't know how to jump down and shoot the door to the magmoor elevator... it's down a short "hallway" if that makes any sense, so there seems to be no way to shoot it without being on the ground.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 12:05:33 AM
Good point on that one with the door...as for the space jump, didn't banks pull it off the one rare time with the DBJ instead of the triple?
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 12:09:19 AM
i think devilbit also used dbjm to do it.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 12:09:36 AM
Also the idea of doing it while having the ball moving(yeah that'd be dang hard) might help some too...because if it could be done, pehaps putting the bomb in the air slightly off center instead of straight above might give you the extra forward movement to get you high enough not to slide.

In fact I almost wonder if the time Banks did it he didn't somehow end up with a weird alignment of the air bomb so that it gave him some extra directional propulsion.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 12:53:38 AM
It was probably some freak thing like that =\
I had been doing it for about 15 minutes, so i was still a little wet behind the hears on the whole rock balancing thing. But i couldn't tell you exactly what i did if my life depended on it, and i haven't been able to do it since.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 12:59:41 AM
how cute, i was playing with magmoor again since i can't get space jump, and i got to the crates just before shore tunnel with like 1 tank and 80 something energy left (that's good i think). i shot open all 3 crates with 1 charged shot, but all of them gave friggin missile expansions instead of small energy, yet i had full missiles.

pisses me off how you have to rely on chance. =]
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:02:05 AM
Wow, 1.80 energy left, impressive o_O
How many crates are after the first set in the monitor station? 3 by the door and another 3-4 under the monitor station? not to mention the puffers can give small energy as well, but you'd have to take extra care to dodge their gas...

kip, if you were to make it to the ball room with the e-tank, would you go for the tank, or head for the elevator. If energy left was a factor, how much min energy would you need to go for the tank?
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:13:38 AM
"How many crates are after the first set in the monitor station? 3 by the door and another 3-4 under the monitor station? not to mention the puffers can give small energy as well, but you'd have to take extra care to dodge their gas..."

i don't know, but there are a lot. problem is they're by the turrets so i don't think you have time for everything since you have to be constantly on the move. same thing for the puffers, you don't really have time to get the energy they leave behind unless you kill them from far away first.

in the room before shore tunnel, there are 2 or 3 crates before the magmoor (which i don't get since it seems to actually waste time instead of just going to shore tunnel), then there are 3 crates just before shore tunnel, which are right on the way so i get those.

"kip, if you were to make it to the ball room with the e-tank, would you go for the tank, or head for the elevator. If energy left was a factor, how much min energy would you need to go for the tank?"

i'd probably go to the elevator because it takes less time to do that then get the tank, and you wouldn't have that much energy by that point unless some crates miraculously gave you ultra energy (which would make this whole run easy actually). then after saving in phendrana and getting your energy refilled it'd be easy to get that tank... assuming that stuff about samus being damaged by the cold temperature isn't true.

the problem is the 2nd room. it just takes too much energy away so i always end up having less than a tank by the time i enter shore tunnel. i'm lucky to even step inside monitor station and i'm doing this almost perfectly. space jump would help in monitor station because there are a few shortcuts you can take, but you wouldn't get there with that much more energy, and to me it seems like you'd need space jump plus about 2 more tanks for this to be realistic.

and i would kill that magmoor in the 2nd room for some large energy but you have to stick around for a long time before it appears; that's how magmoor's energy seems to work in my experience.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:16:09 AM
If you ahd enough energy I'd at least go grab the tank as it would completely refil ya anyway. And as is the way things stand a phendrana run is going to kill a 27% run anyway and will be more about speed running/simple sequence wackiness.

Also keep in mind even if you make the elevator, you are going to need extra time to scan and activate it...so just making it to that room won't save you alone unless you have just a little extra unless the elevator turns out to be a "cool" room...I forget off hand if it is or not.
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:19:06 AM
also... didn't that one guy with that friend say your energy starts to drain even faster in the 2D ball room? that's not good at all if that's true, nobody even got halfway through monitor station yet.

with the standard drain rate i'd say you need about 80-100 energy if you want to get the tank, but if what i mentioned above is true then you'd probably have to visit the save station in phendrana before you could get it (then it'd be easy with your 400 energy).
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:20:44 AM
yeah, the elevator is a cool room, at least according to the thermal visor all elevator rooms are cool. consolation prize i guess...
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:41:34 AM
hey guys, you know training chamber? isn't there an energy tank in there? thermal visor says it's a cool room (only magma pool is a hot room in chozo ruins).

with an L lock space jump you can go to that one missile expansion in main plaza without grapple beam, so i'll see if i can space jump to the other side of the grapple point and enter training chamber the back way (there are no doors, you just enter a morph ball slot which spills you into it).

only thing is i forgot how that energy tank is gotten, i remember the spider ball is used for something but maybe there's a workaround.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:52:49 AM
I think there are 3 possible problems with that energy tank.

1) the door to get in there might be wave beam / ice beam only
2) you might have to use the spider ball
3) you might have to use the boost ball

I don't know which one of these hinders progress, but i'm sure these are obstacles you would have to overcome to get that tank.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:53:02 AM
i see what the problem is... there's a big lip at the end of the spider ball track, but the track is almost right above it so it seems like you can't land on it even though it's easily reachable if you space jump from the top of the bird head. ah come on there has to be a way around this.
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 1:55:26 AM
nah, there are no wave/ice doors from main plaza to training chamber (only if you go in the back way). there's just a morph ball tunnel. but i'm not sure how to do this unless there's a way to tbj onto the lip at the end of the track... i tbjed once but i didn't even get close, couldn't even see the lip at the peak of the jump.
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:06:19 AM
ok, it's time to come up with a quadruple bomb jump.
From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:10:24 AM
lol, the logistics of such a task makes me cringe

there has to be another way to do it, try to get yourself a glitched foothold on something =p
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:20:05 AM
don't bother; you can't get into the training chamber from the back way either the first time you visit it. there's an obstruction blocking the morph ball tunnel that's blasted loose by one of the two morph ball switches in that room.

I was able to get to get over to that tunnel from the main plaza without the grapple beam last week when I was messing around with trying to get stuff early, but was stopped by that obstruction in the tunnel. I could see a little into the room, hear the chozo ghosts, but no matter what could not get through. I did try bombs & power bombs just for the hell of it :) ... but no luck. :(
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:22:03 AM
hmm, the only chance for this is space jumping to the lip from the bird head and timing it so well that you somehow get stuck between the lip and the spider ball track above it... then when you morph you could maybe go through the tunnel without using the boost ball and spider ball.

i know there's another track in the alcove with the energy tank, but i just tried dbjing into the hole to get out in my 100% game and it works, so getting out is no problem if you can just get to where the tank is.
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:24:27 AM
an obstruction? blah. =[
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:30:17 AM
yeah, it sucks. :( if you wanna try it to see if there's some way through there I suggest space jumping to that missile exp in the main plaza, then space jumping up onto the tip of a red branch nearby, which is a flat surface even though it doesn't look like it. from there you should be able to reach the other side where the morph ball tunnel is IIRC.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:31:54 AM
wait, you said you could hear ghosts. i'm guessing you went there after flaahgra, but regardless do you guys think that could help somehow with the sun tower situation?
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:37:17 AM
I think it was after flaahgra, but I don't remember for sure. That's not a bad idea though; who knows if maybe going there before Flaahgra will help to trigger?
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:46:58 AM
Do you need the wave beam to get in the front way? Because hearing ghosts is one thing, encountering / fighting/ killing them is another.
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From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:51:29 AM
If you can get in through the morph ball tunnel, you won't need the wave beam to enter the training chamber. I don't think it's gonna happen though unfortunately. :(
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:53:12 AM
"Do you need the wave beam to get in the front way?"

yeah, it's purple on both sides. even the door at the end of magma pool is. and if you try to go the back way to training chamber, there's that obstruction amasawa's talking about.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:55:34 AM
sorry I misunderstood; apparently my brain is no longer accepting communication in English today. <:-)
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:00:05 AM
well, solrflare is probably right, to do anything at this point something has to happen with the sun tower. it seems like the only way to lower the % any further. and i'm seriously running out of out of order/other types of ideas. =]
From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:29:18 AM
tried scanning the clue for sunchamber, then beating flaahgra and trying to reload all the rooms before dropping down sun tower. i can get the crates in sun tower access to come back, but that bombu never goes away, and the ghosts never appear.

enough for now... need new ideas cuz i can't really think of anything.
From: zell99 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:53:01 AM
I vote for kip to make Part 4, since he discovered cool things since part 1. And I think Amasawa or I should have part 5. Devilbit, tlj and many others deserves a part too. And it could be useful to change the topic's name IMO. We are not limited to Ice Beam + Gravity Suit b4 Thardus anymore. We should use something like "Metroid Prime Discoveries Part 4" or something like that. What do you think?

And I suggest you use something like that for the first post:

Here is where you'll learn to break Metroid Prime's linearity. Since Part 1, we discovered crazy tricks which includes:

-Ice Beam, Gravity Suit, Plasma Beam, Power Bombs, X-Ray Visor, Wavebuster before Thardus
-Skipping the Grapple Beam
-Going through tricky rooms without spiderball/boostball/grapple beam
-Space Jump before Flaahgra
-Wave Beam without Space Jump
-Skip the Crashed Frigate to get into Phazon Mines
-much more..!

To have more information about these tricks, visit one of these websites (they are the same):

http://membres.lycos.fr/zell99/metroid
http://membres.lycos.fr/zellmetroid
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From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:38:04 AM
What Samus needs is rock climbing gear :) Dang you Retro for leaving all these little holes and secret ways through but making the last couple oh so annoying heh. We should hav eknown it might come down to something like this after the whole debacle with being unable to skip the X-ray visor because of one single thing(OP).

I think what makes this so frustrating is its down to literally 1 or two rooms keeping the possibilities of skipping Spider ball, charge beam, and super missle....and if only Samus ran a *lot* faster then all sorts of out of order stuff would be possible and perhaps a solution to this mess.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 9:40:44 AM
oh an done final gripe of frustration..the whole have to have the main power bomb expansion thing thats killing the skip the gravity suit 26% game.
From: tlj9204 | Posted: 2/5/2003 10:01:18 AM
Heh, I'll make Part 6 or 7 if we get that far. And yeah, rename the thread since we're long past just the Ice Beam + Gravity Suit before Thardus (hell, we already cut out the Gravity Suit) :D

-Tim
(better get back to class :P)
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:21:58 PM
does it really matter who makes the topics? =P

btw zell, just curious if you're aware that the 27% page is kind of out of date since there are 2 ways to do 27% now (grav suit should also have an entry under "skip items"). also spider ball isn't needed for some of the rooms there anymore, and gravity suit isn't needed for lifegiver anymore. i could rewrite the "why this item is needed" section for you i think.

don't take it as pressure to update cuz that's not what it is, just letting you know if you didn't already. =]

and do you think my workaround for the spider ball track in the elevator behind thardus is good enough to be there? it's rather useless but it's yet another room that appears to require the spider ball, yet doesn't.

all it is, is you jump on one of the rocks, then space jump onto one of the poles by the elevator (pick the closest ones to the track), then space jump to the top of the track and you land on it, from there just morph and fit through the hole. it's very easy.
From: Amasawa | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:41:04 PM
I think I'll opt out of the topic-making thing. That sounds like responsibility and stuff; not a good fit with my extremely lazy persona. <=)

I'd like to see kip's bit about skipping the spider track near the elevator behind Thardus somewhere on the site too, for reference. I used that once and might want to use it for something again, so if/when you get around to it that'd be cool as long as it's okay with you. The site is really my MP bible now and the more tools to break the game with that are there, the better. =)

On a different note, I'm trying out the game w/o the space jump just to see what can be done, despite the intimidating-ness of that cavern in the impact crater. There's not really any point to it, of course, other than that the mountain is there and I intend to try to climb it... er, bomb jump up it? =)

So far I've got as far as the gravity suit, but I don't think getting back up to the research labs from the room behind the elevator behind Thardus is gonna happen; I can't quite make one particular jump right now and the ones that come after it look impossible at best. I'm thinking about trying out Tim's tbjm-to-the-spinner-platform trick if he's willing to give me a couple pointers on it, so I can skip the gravity suit altogether. :-) I need to know specifically where to jump from though, for starters, cuz I think I never was quite clear on that.

Other than the impact crater (and possibly the fungal halls depending on how far/high some of the jumps need to be), the biggest head-scratcher is how to get Strength artifact w/no space jump. The closest I can seem to get is if I boost ball off that raised bridge, then morph out, but she always falls just a bit short. any suggestions are appreciated.

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From: RockMFR 5 | Posted: 2/5/2003 2:57:49 PM
Is the limit still 27%? I'm only on page 2 of this topic right now.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:07:35 PM
yeah. gravity suit can be skipped now thanks to paratroopa but it involves picking up 2 items to make it possible (the power bomb itself to get the warrior artifact and an expansion which is used to break into phazon mines from the back way), so it ends up being 27% in the end anyway.

you can either do no grav suit and have 5 power bombs, or grav suit and 4 power bombs.

around page 30-40 you can see how close we got (are?) to making it 24%/25% but the sun tower mystery still hasn't been solved/glitched.
From: SolrFlare | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:28:17 PM
Since someone had to do it I've started up version 4.0 of this topic of discussion and included all relevant information in the initial post including the current topics of discussion. Enjoy :)
From: funkytoad | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:28:55 PM
I say someone else starts 4, like tim, devilbit, amasawa, kip, or zell.
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 3:32:25 PM
why does it matter who starts it? i just don't get it... i must be missing something horribly obvious. =[

let's just move this to solrflare's topic.
From: MajorAltitude | Posted: 2/5/2003 4:33:12 PM
almost at 500 posts...
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:11:59 PM
It would be a shame to not close this topic =o
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From: DTaeKim | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:12:35 PM
*Posts after lurking a long while.

Well, I admit, you guys have made astonishing progress to the game. If I may, can I assist in finding a way through Magmoor Caverns without the Varia Suit?

I have to ask, did you get the Space Jump before Flaaghra yet?
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From: kip | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:18:32 PM
i don't see why anyone would mind if you helped out.

for getting to phendrana your best chances would be having space jump (people have gotten it but i haven't yet), 3 tanks, it being on normal, and plenty of missiles even though they won't help that much. and enter from root cave.

tlj got to monitor station once... but you still have a while to go from there. =[
From: wariofan1 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:19:23 PM
whoa! 495 posts! mine is 496!
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:20:31 PM
come on.. let's get to 500
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From: zell99 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:20:50 PM
498
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From: wariofan1 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:21:13 PM
499
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From: Banks17 | Posted: 2/5/2003 8:21:20 PM
Topic is Closed. Go to v.4.0 for further information.
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