NEW PETITION TO REMAKE METROID 2 & SUPER METROID!

2007-07-23 09:36:29 am

Hi, a couple of days ago, I created a petition to remake these two Metroid games. So, please read the petition and if you agree with it, then please sign it as well. The URL is:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mzmsm/petition.html

Thank you.

Thread title:

suttsman

2007-07-23 09:42:15 am

Agent Heart

Counter-sign. We don't need more remakes. Now I know that MZM was awesome, but we don't need to fix two games that aren't broken.

carlmmii

2007-07-23 11:56:31 am

Horray for online petitions that always make a difference.

Mr. Aran

2007-07-23 12:38:27 pm

everybody knows it's true

I much rather have a petition to have VC include GB games.

suttsman

2007-07-23 12:53:09 pm

Agent Heart

Quote from carlmmii:

Horray for online petitions that always make a difference.

Yeah, like that one petition to re-name the Wii. That was surely helpful...

EDIT: heh heh heh... only 6 sigs.

Rox

2007-07-23 03:11:12 pm

What is it that makes people believe online petitions make a difference? I mean, I've seen so many, and I've been asked to sign quite a few, but I've NEVER seen one make a difference. For some reason, it seems people believe getting a few names in a row can magically change anything. Even though it never HAS magically changed anything.

Someone tell me, please, why people insist on making petitions like these when they never work?

[edit]
Oh, oh, I just came up with a perfect anti-petition argument. If I was, say, the head of a massive company in a multi-million dollar industry, and someone forced me to view one of these huge, international petitions telling me to change something that's already been decided on... I would look at it this way: If a million people have bought my stuff, and 10,000 people are actively complaining... that means at least 899,000 people like it. Some of those may not like it after buying it, but if they bought the product they've served their purpose to me.

Unless more than half of everyone involved signs a petition, it means the guys signing the petition are a minority. Let's pretend there are 100,000 Metroid fans in the world, just making up numbers here, and 20 of those sign a petition... What does that mean? Not nearly enough to make a difference.
[/edit]

What is it that makes people believe online petitions make a difference? I mean, I've seen so many, and I've been asked to sign quite a few, but I've NEVER seen one make a difference. For some reason, it seems people believe getting a few names in a row can magically change anything. Even though it never HAS magically changed anything.

Someone tell me, please, why people insist on making petitions like these when they never work?

[edit] 
Oh, oh, I just came up with a perfect anti-petition argument. If I was, say, the head of a massive company in a multi-million dollar industry, and someone forced me to view one of these huge, international petitions telling me to change something that's already been decided on... I would look at it this way: If a million people have bought my stuff, and 10,000 people are actively complaining... that means at least 899,000 people like it. Some of those may not like it after buying it, but if they bought the product they've served their purpose to me.

Unless more than half of everyone involved signs a petition, it means the guys signing the petition are a minority. Let's pretend there are 100,000 Metroid fans in the world, just making up numbers here, and 20 of those sign a petition... What does that mean? Not nearly enough to make a difference.
[/edit]

RT-55J

2007-07-23 04:42:37 pm

Armor Guardian

*Anti-signs*

We need more original games and less remakes.

Taco

2007-07-23 06:34:08 pm

I'd like to see a metroid 2 remake, but super metroid is fine as it is.

I want to see new games more than remakes of older ones, however, so I refuse to sign the petition.

And as already stated, this will not make a difference either way.

BioSpark

2007-07-23 09:38:17 pm

Metroid Fusion (2)?

Melancholy Spork

2007-07-23 11:54:13 pm

How about good remakes AND good original games?

I signed it.

JaggerG

2007-07-24 09:13:50 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

I don't like the looks of this petition.

First of all, ZM is a remake of Metroid that, in my opinion, made a classic game much fuller and shinier. I can see this done for RoS, but Super Metroid is pretty much as good as you're ever likely to get. Remaking it in order for it to be better has a much higher chance of failure. I may have liked it if you asked them to PORT SM to the DS, but to "remake" it is completely unnecessary.

Secondly, you describe Fusion and Zero Mission as doing "an excellent job of recreating the superb gameplay, graphics and atmosphere of Super Metroid." I disagree that either of these games recreate the graphics and atmosphere of SM. Maybe ZM had similarities in gameplay, but other than that, that paragraph makes no sense.

Third of all, you're gonna have to get thousands of signatures to support that mention of the HUGE Metroid fanbase as supporters.

Quote from Rox basically:

You are stupid and also dumb.

[edit]
Oh, oh, I just thought up a perfect anti-petition argument all by myself! Multi-million dollar industries have never thought about its consumers! And I can tell, Nintendo has already made a decision on this matter! They came and told me in a dream one night! Also, if 10% of all fans complain, that automatically means that at least 89.9% like it, and do not agree to the 10%'s petition in the least. And if they bought one product from a company, that company's job is done and there is no point in selling anything else ever.

You see, petitions are like the basic voting system in that more than half of all fans have to say they agree to make any difference in anything.
[/edit]

I'm going to have to disagree on all points there, Rox. Any business is going to keep an eye on their fanbase, looking for signs of anything they are hoping to buy. Your theory that a consumer making a petition to be able to buy a product multiple times because it looks a bit different is not going to make a difference in the marketer's decision of selling something that doesn't take all that much effort or resources to make...it just doesn't make any sense if you use the same level logic made to think up that argument. You say all they care about is that they made money off of you, so it only makes sense that they're going to make a similar product to take advantage of the people that toss money out simply for more but not necessarily better. This has been the disgruntled consumers' idea of big business ever since big business became an idea at all. It's simple small-guy bias against largely successful people. Merely a generalization.

It consistently fails to realize that corporations are run by groups of individuals. They're not necessarily all born rich and simply buy success. You can't really do that. There has to be some method of connecting to the customers. Nintendo isn't just one guy that's become a multi-millionaire and can retire and never care about anyone again. They have to support their staff that produce the games, so they have to produce more games to make a profit.

I guess in the end, it's mainly about the staff, rather than either the heads or the consumers. They have to serve the consumers under the guidance of the heads. To keep going, they have to listen to the consumer requests (to some extent). Having a petition exist at all gives them some chance of finding it and getting ideas from it. If nobody says anything, then they're not going to hear anything, and are just going to have to try over and over until they either succeed or run out of resources.

I don't like the looks of this petition.

First of all, ZM is a remake of Metroid that, in my opinion, made a classic game much fuller and shinier. I can see this done for RoS, but Super Metroid is pretty much as good as you're ever likely to get. Remaking it in order for it to be better has a much higher chance of failure. I may have liked it if you asked them to PORT SM to the DS, but to "remake" it is completely unnecessary.

Secondly, you describe Fusion and Zero Mission as doing "an excellent job of recreating the superb gameplay, graphics and atmosphere of Super Metroid." I disagree that either of these games recreate the graphics and atmosphere of SM. Maybe ZM had similarities in gameplay, but other than that, that paragraph makes no sense.

Third of all, you're gonna have to get thousands of signatures to support that mention of the HUGE Metroid fanbase as supporters.

[quote="Rox basically"]You are stupid and also dumb.

[edit]
Oh, oh, I just thought up a perfect anti-petition argument all by myself! Multi-million dollar industries have never thought about its consumers! And I can tell, Nintendo has already made a decision on this matter! They came and told me in a dream one night! Also, if 10% of all fans complain, that automatically means that at least 89.9% like it, and do not agree to the 10%'s petition in the least. And if they bought one product from a company, that company's job is done and there is no point in selling anything else ever.

You see, petitions are like the basic voting system in that more than half of all fans have to say they agree to make any difference in anything.
[/edit][/quote]
I'm going to have to disagree on all points there, Rox. Any business is going to keep an eye on their fanbase, looking for signs of anything they are hoping to buy. Your theory that a consumer making a petition to be able to buy a product multiple times because it looks a bit different is not going to make a difference in the marketer's decision of selling something that doesn't take all that much effort or resources to make...it just doesn't make any sense if you use the same level logic made to think up that argument. You say all they care about is that they made money off of you, so it only makes sense that they're going to make a similar product to take advantage of the people that toss money out simply for more but not necessarily better. This has been the disgruntled consumers' idea of big business ever since big business became an idea at all. It's simple small-guy bias against largely successful people. Merely a generalization.

It consistently fails to realize that corporations are run by groups of individuals. They're not necessarily all born rich and simply buy success. You can't really do that. There has to be some method of connecting to the customers. Nintendo isn't just one guy that's become a multi-millionaire and can retire and never care about anyone again. They have to support their staff that produce the games, so they have to produce more games to make a profit.

I guess in the end, it's mainly about the staff, rather than either the heads [i]or[/i] the consumers. They have to serve the consumers under the guidance of the heads. To keep going, they have to listen to the consumer requests (to some extent). Having a petition exist at all gives them some chance of finding it and getting ideas from it. If nobody says anything, then they're not going to hear anything, and are just going to have to try over and over until they either succeed or run out of resources.

Banjonator

2007-07-24 09:25:15 am

Quote from Mr. Aran:

I much rather have a petition to have VC include GB games.

*signed*

Kyousha

2007-07-24 03:44:07 pm

*Signed also*

It was proven that remakes of 8-bit games are hugely successful and praised. Why wouldn't 16-bit remakes work?

The only negative thing I can imagine happening is having all the sequence-breaking bugs fixed, which would make it impossible to get early items, skip bosses, etc. O.o; ...I mean, i'm pretty positive it'll have a completely new engine. BUT you never know Rolling Eyes

But hey, with updated graphics to make the space pirates and chozo look like the models from the Prime series--that wold be HOT ^-^

suttsman

2007-07-24 07:46:35 pm

Agent Heart

I guess the peoples around here would like that too, but I'd rather find out how to sequence break an original game*, thank you very much.

*=Well, besides MZM, of course.

StarmanHaxor

2007-07-24 09:23:08 pm

PetitionOnline petitions never get listened to, anyone with half a brain knows that.

Why waste the time?

arkarian

2007-07-24 10:16:07 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from suttsman:

Quote from carlmmii:

Horray for online petitions that always make a difference.

Yeah, like that one petition to re-name the Wii. That was surely helpful...

I always think it's funny how, given enough time, no one cares any more. I haven't heard one person complain about the Wii's name in a long time.

SABERinBLUE

2007-07-24 11:14:51 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Kyousha:

*Signed also*

It was proven that remakes of 8-bit games are hugely successful and praised. Why wouldn't 16-bit remakes work?

What 16-bit system are you talking about?

Rox

2007-07-25 07:47:52 am

Eh, I'm sorry JaggerG, my eyes couldn't quite follow all that text you put there. It's a bit early and I just got up... But you can't disagree with exactly every point I made.

Game developers listen to fans. All the time. The most outstanding example right now would be Bungie. They've done an enormous amount of tweaks and cool stuff for Halo 3 thanks to their fanbase. However, that's all actual feedback, forum discussions, complaints via email, and so on. I have seen quite a few Halo petitions in my days, NONE of them have had ANY effect at all.

Like I said, putting names on a website doesn't really mean anything. And it's even worse when people are trying to tell a company what game to make. Either in a more discrete way ("bring back the Halo 1 pistol!") or in a really blatant way like here ("make THIS game with good graphics kthx"). Like you said, companies are ran by individuals, and are made up entirely by people who all wanna have fun doing what they do. Just so happens these guys have a knack for coming up with original ideas and pulling them off flawlessly, because of their apparent love for the original and flawless.

Why would you even try to make them make a game they obviously don't want to make?

Eh, I'm sorry JaggerG, my eyes couldn't quite follow all that text you put there. It's a bit early and I just got up... But you can't disagree with exactly every point I made.

Game developers listen to fans. All the time. The most outstanding example right now would be Bungie. They've done an enormous amount of tweaks and cool stuff for Halo 3 thanks to their fanbase. However, that's all actual feedback, forum discussions, complaints via email, and so on. I have seen quite a few Halo petitions in my days, NONE of them have had ANY effect at all.

Like I said, putting names on a website doesn't really mean anything. And it's even worse when people are trying to tell a company what game to make. Either in a more discrete way ("bring back the Halo 1 pistol!") or in a really blatant way like here ("make THIS game with good graphics kthx"). Like you said, companies are ran by individuals, and are made up entirely by people who all wanna have fun doing what they do. Just so happens these guys have a knack for coming up with original ideas and pulling them off flawlessly, because of their apparent love for the original and flawless.

Why would you even try to make them make a game they obviously don't want to make?

JaggerG

2007-07-25 12:46:56 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Quote from suttsman:

I guess the peoples around here would like that too

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a summary:

Quote from carlmmii:

[sarcasm]Horray for online petitions that always make a difference.[/sarcasm]

Quote from Mr. Aran:

I much rather have a petition to have VC include GB games.

Quote from Rox:

What is it that makes people believe online petitions make a difference?

Quote from RT-55J:

*Anti-signs*

We need more original games and less remakes.

Quote from Taco:

I want to see new games more than remakes of older ones, however, so I refuse to sign the petition.

Quote from JaggerG:

I don't like the looks of this petition.

I guess you probably meant just the Prime-style pirates, though. I just felt like summarizing the anti-signs.

---

Quote from Rox:

Eh, I'm sorry JaggerG, my eyes couldn't quite follow all that text you put there. It's a bit early and I just got up... But you can't disagree with exactly every point I made.

Game developers listen to fans. All the time. The most outstanding example right now would be Bungie. They've done an enormous amount of tweaks and cool stuff for Halo 3 thanks to their fanbase. However, that's all actual feedback, forum discussions, complaints via email, and so on. I have seen quite a few Halo petitions in my days, NONE of them have had ANY effect at all.

Like I said, putting names on a website doesn't really mean anything. And it's even worse when people are trying to tell a company what game to make. Either in a more discrete way ("bring back the Halo 1 pistol!") or in a really blatant way like here ("make THIS game with good graphics kthx"). Like you said, companies are ran by individuals, and are made up entirely by people who all wanna have fun doing what they do. Just so happens these guys have a knack for coming up with original ideas and pulling them off flawlessly, because of their apparent love for the original and flawless.

Why would you even try to make them make a game they obviously don't want to make?

Heh, I did notice as I posted that it looked like quite a big text-block. Since you put it like that, though, I suppose you have a good point. I guess the main purpose of the petition is as a last resort to get someone to listen to you. Since they seek the feedback, though, it kind of defeats that purpose. It's probably much more useful in politics.

[quote="suttsman"]I guess the peoples around here would like that too[/quote]
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a summary:
[quote="carlmmii"][sarcasm]Horray for online petitions that [i]always[/i] make a difference.[/sarcasm][/quote]
[quote="Mr. Aran"]I much rather have a petition to have VC include GB games.[/quote]
[quote="Rox"]What is it that makes people believe online petitions make a difference?[/quote]
[quote="RT-55J"]*Anti-signs*

We need more original games and less remakes.[/quote]
[quote="Taco"]I want to see new games more than remakes of older ones, however, so I refuse to sign the petition.[/quote]
[quote="JaggerG"]I don't like the looks of this petition.[/quote]
I guess you probably meant just the Prime-style pirates, though. I just felt like summarizing the anti-signs.

---

[quote="Rox"]Eh, I'm sorry JaggerG, my eyes couldn't quite follow all that text you put there. It's a bit early and I just got up... But you can't disagree with exactly every point I made.

Game developers listen to fans. All the time. The most outstanding example right now would be Bungie. They've done an enormous amount of tweaks and cool stuff for Halo 3 thanks to their fanbase. However, that's all actual feedback, forum discussions, complaints via email, and so on. I have seen quite a few Halo petitions in my days, NONE of them have had ANY effect at all.

Like I said, putting names on a website doesn't really mean anything. And it's even worse when people are trying to tell a company what game to make. Either in a more discrete way ("bring back the Halo 1 pistol!") or in a really blatant way like here ("make THIS game with good graphics kthx"). Like you said, companies are ran by individuals, and are made up entirely by people who all wanna have fun doing what they do. Just so happens these guys have a knack for coming up with original ideas and pulling them off flawlessly, because of their apparent love for the original and flawless.

Why would you even try to make them make a game they obviously don't want to make?[/quote]
Heh, I did notice as I posted that it looked like quite a big text-block. Since you put it like that, though, I suppose you have a good point. I guess the main purpose of the petition is as a last resort to get someone to listen to you. Since they seek the feedback, though, it kind of defeats that purpose. It's probably much more useful in politics.

Phazon Yoshi

2007-08-17 07:46:02 am

Vote against a remake, sure, but a re-release, maybe a collectors edition with every 2-D metroid on it? That would be nice, if unlikely, thanks to the awsome might of the VC. Sigh, counts the day's until SM is released...

suttsman

2007-08-22 06:56:59 pm

Agent Heart

Yeah... uh, not gonna happen.

NOT-AT-THE-END EDIT: skdlfmeklfudlvmlkhafd page breaks.

Quote from JaggerG basically:

NO!

I guess you probably meant just the Prime-style pirates, though. I just felt like summarizing the anti-signs.

Sorry for responding so late, but
A. You forgot mine (twice)
B. Yes, that was what I meant. I don't like the crab people of MZM.

JaggerG

2007-08-24 07:21:24 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

...Huh, apparently I looked over the list a couple times and completely missed the first response in the topic. >_< oops

UchihaSasuke

2007-08-25 02:07:24 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

imo, a remake should be done to a game that is borderline unplayable or just plain unplayable for new gamers.

going with that, Metroid 2 needs a remake but SM doesn't.

i know Metroid 1 was unplayable for me. the game is too old and limited to be enjoyed by most of the newer gamers. i guess better controls have spoiled us. i see some people getting through those limitations but not everyone can.
from watching speed runs, Metroid 2 seems to be a lot like #1. slow, clunky and hard to play as it is. a remake would help it a lot. it can also help the game's story and gameplay by adding stuff like with MZM.
SM on the other hand, is quite good as it is. the only complaints that i had were the method to choose items but you can fix that without remaking the whole game.

petitions online are useless. devs never listen to them. it's a waste of time.

carlmmii

2007-08-26 10:56:31 am

Just to speak about the controls of metroid 2, it's leaps and bounds better than the original metroid. It actually has a reliable jump system, screw attack actually works, you don't get the weird issue with shooting multiple times when pressing/releasing another button, and lots of other improvements that make it actually make sense.

Sure, it's nowhere near the level of super, but it's hardly unplayable or difficult.

Toozin

2007-08-26 05:43:04 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

M2 could use an update, but solely to add color and a map. Otherwise, it and SM are fine the way God made them.

*anti-signs*