Super Metroid 100% SS

2006-10-09 02:20:35 pm

I already made this topic over at SDA, but nate pointed out to me in PM that it would make alot more sense to have one here as well.

Anyway here's the SDA topic.

Quote from SDA topic:

I think the title says just about everything. As far as route changes from RS's 0:55 go, I plan on doing green/pink Brinstar cleanup right after the Wrecked Ship and saving the X-ray scope, blue Brinstar, and Crateria for on the way back from lower Norfair, because looking at RS's run, falling down the ecape shaft taes a long time, and her route requires it to be done twice in a row. Plus, waiting until after I have the space jump for getting the X-ray scope saves about 15 seconds right there, and there's also a bunch of other stuff that makes me think this way is faster. Also, I'm thinking about making the last save be in lower Norfair after Ridley, because all that's left after that is a bit more item collection and then the end, and it'll allow that fairly luck-based segment (there's two boss fights there, and Ridley is definitely the most luck-based part of the game) to be shorter and therefore easier to do better.

If this post seems kind of odd and brief then that's because preparing to break a very long-held and well-respected record that also happens to be the first speedrun you ever saw is a very strange feeling.

Also, Nate and any other quality-obsessed people out there can be happy, because this'll be the first SM run recorded on DVD.

Thread title:

I already made this topic over at SDA, but nate pointed out to me in PM that it would make alot more sense to have one here as well.

Anyway here's the SDA [url=http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=consoles_older;action=display;num=1160287603]topic[/url].

[quote="SDA topic"]I think the title says just about everything.  As far as route changes from RS's 0:55 go, I plan on doing green/pink Brinstar cleanup right after the Wrecked Ship and saving the X-ray scope, blue Brinstar, and Crateria for on the way back from lower Norfair, because looking at RS's run, falling down the ecape shaft taes a long time, and her route requires it to be done twice in a row.  Plus, waiting until after I have the space jump for getting the X-ray scope saves about 15 seconds right there, and there's also a bunch of other stuff that makes me think this way is faster.  Also, I'm thinking about making the last save be in lower Norfair after Ridley, because all that's left after that is a bit more item collection and then the end, and it'll allow that fairly luck-based segment (there's two boss fights there, and Ridley is definitely the most luck-based part of the game) to be shorter and therefore easier to do better. 
 
If this post seems kind of odd and brief then that's because preparing to break a very long-held and well-respected record that also happens to be the first speedrun you ever saw is a very strange feeling. 
 
Also, Nate and any other quality-obsessed people out there can be happy, because this'll be the first SM run recorded on DVD.[/quote]

P.JMan

2006-10-09 02:28:14 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Guess you could post it at scufcu as well :p

BlueGlass

2006-10-09 02:53:38 pm

I'd have to become a member first =)

Chanoire

2006-10-09 03:13:51 pm

Are you planning on getting grapple before Wrecked Ship as Smokey's route does, or after Maridia as Scarlet's does? Wasn't sure from your wording if you were starting with her route and then altering it or just mentioning a couple of ways in which your intended route differs from hers.

BlueGlass

2006-10-09 03:42:01 pm

Quote from Chanoire:

Are you planning on getting grapple before Wrecked Ship as Smokey's route does, or after Maridia as Scarlet's does? Wasn't sure from your wording if you were starting with her route and then altering it or just mentioning a couple of ways in which your intended route differs from hers.

Grapple will come on the way to Lower Norfair, like in her run. I think the Plasma Beam and Space Jump save a large enough amount of time to make that way faster. I probably should have made that a little clearer. I you'd like a full list of all the tiny route changes I plan on making, I can post that.

Continuing the discussion from SDA, about the damage boost in the Ceres escape, just how random is that second-to-last room? I can't tell whether there are a variety of sets of explosions determined by the frame I enter the room there or whether each explosion is random. If it's the latter, I guess I'll need to just choose a spot to preform the boost and hope something turns up to hit me. If it's the former, which I'm currently assuming it is, then knowing all the different possible sets would be very handy.

[quote="Chanoire"]Are you planning on getting grapple before Wrecked Ship as Smokey's route does, or after Maridia as Scarlet's does?  Wasn't sure from your wording if you were starting with her route and then altering it or just mentioning a couple of ways in which your intended route differs from hers.[/quote]

Grapple will come on the way to Lower Norfair, like in her run.  I think the Plasma Beam and Space Jump save a large enough amount of time to make that way faster.  I probably should have made that a little clearer.  I you'd like a full list of all the tiny route changes I plan on making, I can post that.

Continuing the discussion from SDA, about the damage boost in the Ceres escape, just how random is that second-to-last room?  I can't tell whether there are a variety of sets of explosions determined by the frame I enter the room there or whether each explosion is random.  If it's the latter, I guess I'll need to just choose a spot to preform the boost and hope something turns up to hit me.  If it's the former, which I'm currently assuming it is, then knowing all the different possible sets would be very handy.

Chanoire

2006-10-09 04:24:49 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

I you'd like a full list of all the tiny route changes I plan on making, I can post that.

Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing that.

BlueGlass

2006-10-09 04:50:32 pm

Quote from Chanoire:

Quote from BlueGlass:

I you'd like a full list of all the tiny route changes I plan on making, I can post that.

Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing that.

I'll get my second missile pack in the mockball supers room and leave the second blue Brinstar pack for when I clean up that area.
The bug tube missiles in green Brinstar will be gotten on the way to Maridia.
I'll use a super missile to open the red Brinstar recharge station my first time there.
I'll grab the hi-jump etank when I first enter the room.
The bubble room missiles in Norfair will be gotten on the way out of Lower Norfair, instead of my first time there.
As mentioned above, the route post Wrecked Ship will be green/pink Brinstar cleanup --> Maridia. And X-ray scope will be saved for later
I'll grab the maridia main street missiles upon entering Maridia.
After getting the Plasma Beam, I'll take the TAS's route back to purple Maridia.
As previously mentioned, the X-ray scope, blue Brinstar, and Crateria will be done on the way to the ship.

[quote="Chanoire"][quote="BlueGlass"]I you'd like a full list of all the tiny route changes I plan on making, I can post that.[/quote]
Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing that.[/quote]

I'll get my second missile pack in the mockball supers room and leave the second blue Brinstar pack for when I clean up that area.  
The bug tube missiles in green Brinstar will be gotten on the way to Maridia.
I'll use a super missile to open the red Brinstar recharge station my first time there.
I'll grab the hi-jump etank when I first enter the room.
The bubble room missiles in Norfair will be gotten on the way out of Lower Norfair, instead of my first time there.
As mentioned above, the route post Wrecked Ship will be green/pink Brinstar cleanup --> Maridia.  And X-ray scope will be saved for later
I'll grab the maridia main street missiles upon entering Maridia.
After getting the Plasma Beam, I'll take the TAS's route back to purple Maridia.
As previously mentioned, the X-ray scope, blue Brinstar, and Crateria will be done on the way to the ship.

Chanoire

2006-10-10 12:58:42 am

Scarlet's reason for getting the e-tank before high jump on her way out of Norfair was to have enough energy for the wrecked ship break-in, so she didn't need to use the red Brinstar energy recharge. I take it you figure using the recharge takes less time than going into the HJ room twice? Or you'd just rather refill after using a shinespark in the rooms to the right of that recharge room?

I was at first reading "I'll get my second missile pack in the mockball supers room" as that you'd do the mockball, get the supers, get the regulars, and then continue on with a total capacity of 10 regular missiles, picking up the other two packs and the reserve tank during cleanup. But that doesn't seem like it'd be any better than grabbing the missiles first, exiting, and then reentering, mockballing, and opening the other pink door with the missiles you just picked up and collecting the rest, so I must be taking your statement too literally.

Is there any particular advantage in getting the bug tube missiles on the way to Maridia rather than your first time through? Ditto with the bubble room missiles. I've wondered previously about when the best time to get those was but the only reasoning I thought of was not having to worry about hitting the red turtle above them since you'd have screw attack, and perhaps having the spring ball to get out, and I'm not even sure either of these would matter.

Scarlet's reason for getting the e-tank before high jump on her way out of Norfair was to have enough energy for the wrecked ship break-in, so she didn't need to use the red Brinstar energy recharge.  I take it you figure using the recharge takes less time than going into the HJ room twice?  Or you'd just rather refill after using a shinespark in the rooms to the right of that recharge room?

I was at first reading "I'll get my second missile pack in the mockball supers room" as that you'd do the mockball, get the supers, get the regulars, and then continue on with a total capacity of 10 regular missiles, picking up the other two packs and the reserve tank during cleanup.  But that doesn't seem like it'd be any better than grabbing the missiles first, exiting, and then reentering, mockballing, and opening the other pink door with the missiles you just picked up and collecting the rest, so I must be taking your statement too literally.

Is there any particular advantage in getting the bug tube missiles on the way to Maridia rather than your first time through?  Ditto with the bubble room missiles.  I've wondered previously about when the best time to get those was but the only reasoning I thought of was not having to worry about hitting the red turtle above them since you'd have screw attack, and perhaps having the spring ball to get out, and I'm not even sure either of these would matter.

BlueGlass

2006-10-10 02:25:21 am

Quote from Chanoire:

Scarlet's reason for getting the e-tank before high jump on her way out of Norfair was to have enough energy for the wrecked ship break-in, so she didn't need to use the red Brinstar energy recharge. I take it you figure using the recharge takes less time than going into the HJ room twice? Or you'd just rather refill after using a shinespark in the rooms to the right of that recharge room?

Scarlet herself said that both ways would be about the same time, but she didn't want to use the recharge room because she would be short a super missile later. By opening the door my first time through the room, I eliminate that problem. This way I can use the shinespark from the leeches room to save a very small amount of time climbing th Norfair elevator shaft.

Quote from Chanoire:

I was at first reading "I'll get my second missile pack in the mockball supers room" as that you'd do the mockball, get the supers, get the regulars, and then continue on with a total capacity of 10 regular missiles, picking up the other two packs and the reserve tank during cleanup. But that doesn't seem like it'd be any better than grabbing the missiles first, exiting, and then reentering, mockballing, and opening the other pink door with the missiles you just picked up and collecting the rest, so I must be taking your statement too literally.

That statement was a bit ambiguous, wasn't it? Anyway, what I plan on doing is to grab those missils, leave the room, then reenter and grab the other items. I'm positive it's the fastest method (between grabbing the blue Brinstar missiles, waiting to get the reserve tank/missile tanks, and itself)

Quote from Chanoire:

Is there any particular advantage in getting the bug tube missiles on the way to Maridia rather than your first time through? Ditto with the bubble room missiles. I've wondered previously about when the best time to get those was but the only reasoning I thought of was not having to worry about hitting the red turtle above them since you'd have screw attack, and perhaps having the spring ball to get out, and I'm not even sure either of these would matter.

With the bug tube missiles, I can mockball to them my second time through the room. So I think getting them later is ever so slightly faster. About the bubble room missiles, you also have to remember that I can place the power bomb earlier and not have to spend as long waiting for it to explode. That was one of the ideas I got from the TAS. So both of those are just fraction-of-a-second timesavers, and the main reason I'm doing them is to shorten segment 2 as much as possible because:
a)it's already the longest segment in the run (actually, since I'm extending the final segment, that might turn out longer, but it doesn't contain lots of difficult tricks)
b)I'm hoping for 11 minutes at the red Brinstar save point

[quote="Chanoire"]Scarlet's reason for getting the e-tank before high jump on her way out of Norfair was to have enough energy for the wrecked ship break-in, so she didn't need to use the red Brinstar energy recharge.  I take it you figure using the recharge takes less time than going into the HJ room twice?  Or you'd just rather refill after using a shinespark in the rooms to the right of that recharge room?[/quote]
Scarlet herself said that both ways would be about the same time, but she didn't want to use the recharge room because she would be short a super missile later.  By opening the door my first time through the room, I eliminate that problem.  This way I can use the shinespark from the leeches room to save a very small amount of time climbing th Norfair elevator shaft.

[quote="Chanoire"]I was at first reading "I'll get my second missile pack in the mockball supers room" as that you'd do the mockball, get the supers, get the regulars, and then continue on with a total capacity of 10 regular missiles, picking up the other two packs and the reserve tank during cleanup.  But that doesn't seem like it'd be any better than grabbing the missiles first, exiting, and then reentering, mockballing, and opening the other pink door with the missiles you just picked up and collecting the rest, so I must be taking your statement too literally.[/quote]
That statement was a bit ambiguous, wasn't it?  Anyway, what I plan on doing is to grab those missils, leave the room, then reenter and grab the other items.  I'm positive it's the fastest method (between grabbing the blue Brinstar missiles, waiting to get the reserve tank/missile tanks, and itself)

[quote="Chanoire"]Is there any particular advantage in getting the bug tube missiles on the way to Maridia rather than your first time through?  Ditto with the bubble room missiles.  I've wondered previously about when the best time to get those was but the only reasoning I thought of was not having to worry about hitting the red turtle above them since you'd have screw attack, and perhaps having the spring ball to get out, and I'm not even sure either of these would matter.[/quote]
With the bug tube missiles, I can mockball to them my second time through the room.  So I think getting them later is ever so slightly faster.  About the bubble room missiles, you also have to remember that I can place the power bomb earlier and not have to spend as long waiting for it to explode.  That was one of the ideas I got from the TAS.  So both of those are just fraction-of-a-second timesavers, and the main reason I'm doing them is to shorten segment 2 as much as possible because:
     a)it's already the longest segment in the run (actually, since I'm extending the final segment, that might turn out longer, but it doesn't contain lots of difficult tricks)
     b)I'm hoping for 11 minutes at the red Brinstar save point

MR.X

2006-10-10 10:44:37 am

A question: What´s the difference betwenn "green" or "pink"Brinstar? Or what is the difference between"colored" Brinstar at all?

P.JMan

2006-10-10 10:58:02 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

The music for a start Mr. Green

BlueGlass

2006-10-10 11:54:46 am

Quote from MR.X:

A question: What´s the difference betwenn "green" or "pink"Brinstar? Or what is the difference between"colored" Brinstar at all?

It's just an easy way to refer to the various sections of Brinstar. The names come from the colors of the walls in each section. And yes, the music is different (though green and pink have he same music and are normally grouped together.

Saturn

2006-10-10 01:43:24 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

Continuing the discussion from SDA, about the damage boost in the Ceres escape, just how random is that second-to-last room? I can't tell whether there are a variety of sets of explosions determined by the frame I enter the room there or whether each explosion is random. If it's the latter, I guess I'll need to just choose a spot to preform the boost and hope something turns up to hit me. If it's the former, which I'm currently assuming it is, then knowing all the different possible sets would be very handy.

It's the former. The order of the explosions is set depending on which frame you enter the room. They aren't random each for itself.

Also a question: Since you record this run on DVD, which allows to easily capture video clips, would you like to make some teaser vids during your progress of this run and share with us? This way people could give you comments on possible errors in the individual rooms and what could be improved for example.

Or do you prefer (also because of the additional capturing work) to waive on WIPs and just send the run when it's completely done?

[quote="BlueGlass"]Continuing the discussion from SDA, about the damage boost in the Ceres escape, just how random is that second-to-last room? I can't tell whether there are a variety of sets of explosions determined by the frame I enter the room there or whether each explosion is random. If it's the latter, I guess I'll need to just choose a spot to preform the boost and hope something turns up to hit me. If it's the former, which I'm currently assuming it is, then knowing all the different possible sets would be very handy.[/quote]
It's the former. The order of the explosions is set depending on which frame you enter the room. They aren't random each for itself.

Also a question: Since you record this run on DVD, which allows to easily capture video clips, would you like to make some teaser vids during your progress of this run and share with us? This way people could give you comments on possible errors in the individual rooms and what could be improved for example.

Or do you prefer (also because of the additional capturing work) to waive on WIPs and just send the run when it's completely done?

nate

2006-10-10 02:20:28 pm

posting clips is stupid easy. i'll be glad to help you if you need it.

BlueGlass

2006-10-10 03:09:04 pm

Quote from Saturn:

It's the former. The order of the explosions is set depending on which frame you enter the room. They aren't random each for itself.

Also a question: Since you record this run on DVD, which allows to easily capture video clips, would you like to make some teaser vids during your progress of this run and share with us? This way people could give you comments on possible errors in the individual rooms and what could be improved for example.

Or do you prefer (also because of the additional capturing work) to waive on WIPs and just send the run when it's completely done?

Thanks. If I can memorize them, it should make getting that boost a lot easier.

On the clips idea, I'm not really sure. I think I'd rather just release the whole run when it's finished. But people poining out improvments I might miss would be useful.

Quote from nate:

posting clips is stupid easy. i'll be glad to help you if you need it.

Easy for me or easy for you? Note that I'm using a Mac, so I won't have any of the Windows-only programs. That's also why I'm unable to test things TAS style, because SNES9X for Mac lacks any kind of slowdown.

[quote="Saturn"]It's the former. The order of the explosions is set depending on which frame you enter the room. They aren't random each for itself.

Also a question: Since you record this run on DVD, which allows to easily capture video clips, would you like to make some teaser vids during your progress of this run and share with us? This way people could give you comments on possible errors in the individual rooms and what could be improved for example.

Or do you prefer (also because of the additional capturing work) to waive on WIPs and just send the run when it's completely done?[/quote]Thanks.  If I can memorize them, it should make getting that boost a lot easier.

On the clips idea, I'm not really sure.  I think I'd rather just release the whole run when it's finished.  But people poining out improvments I might miss would be useful.
[quote="nate"]posting clips is stupid easy. i'll be glad to help you if you need it.[/quote]Easy for me or easy for you?  Note that I'm using a Mac, so I won't have any of the Windows-only programs.  That's also why I'm unable to test things TAS style, because SNES9X for Mac lacks any kind of slowdown.

nate

2006-10-10 03:44:33 pm

no big deal. that's where grenola comes in.

BlueGlass

2006-10-10 03:53:38 pm

Quote from nate:

no big deal. that's where grenola comes in.

Comes in how and does what?

nate

2006-10-10 07:47:18 pm

teaches you how to use tools that work on macs to easily and quickly spew little divxs to show us.

BlueGlass

2006-10-10 08:32:57 pm

Quote from nate:

teaches you how to use tools that work on macs to easily and quickly spew little divxs to show us.

That would be very nice indeed.

nate

2006-10-10 09:34:19 pm

just curious, what kind/how recent of a mac are you on? and you have a dvd drive right?

DJGrenola

2006-10-10 09:37:11 pm

... asks nate, hoping he hasn't saddled me with the impossible ...

BlueGlass

2006-10-10 10:20:20 pm

Not sure what info you need to know about my computer, so I'll just copy/paste the "about this mac" thingie
Machine Name: iMac G5
Machine Model: PowerMac8,1
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (3.0)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 1.8 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 512 MB
Bus Speed: 600 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 5.2.2f2
Serial Number: W8445218PNZ
I recently upgraded it to version 10.4.8, and yes, it does have a DVD drive. How else would I have gotten my Ecco run on here?

Not about my computer, I've just recorded a possible Ceres. I didn't do the damage boost in the second-to-last room, but I did get an escape time of 44.97. To keep or not to keep: that is the question.
It's kind of funny that I got that escape time, because before that my fastest escape was 44.96 and 44.95 before that.

Saturn

2006-10-11 02:08:51 am

44.97 sounds solid to me. If you are a perfectionist you can sure try to top this but I don't think there is a way to save more than one second compared to this time (in realtime at least).

BlueGlass

2006-10-11 03:03:21 am

But it's soooo close to 45.00!

Why don't I wait until i've learned how to "spew out little divxs," make this into one, then show it to all of you, then we'll decide. The reason I'm wanting all of your opinions on this is because I consider this just as much your run as it is mine. You people discovered all the tricks. I'm just preforming them.

It's times like this that I reaalize just how annoying the lack of a you plural pronoun in English is.

MR.X

2006-10-11 10:47:24 am

Quote from BlueGlass:

Quote from MR.X:

A question: What´s the difference betwenn "green" or "pink"Brinstar? Or what is the difference between"colored" Brinstar at all?

It's just an easy way to refer to the various sections of Brinstar. The names come from the colors of the walls in each section. And yes, the music is different (though green and pink have he same music and are normally grouped together.

understood. Good luck! You need it. I watched the run, it seems done perfectly.