nomenclature ii [locked]

2005-12-16 03:46:21 pm

here's a new poll with some of the best suggestions from the previous one.

the term 'emu rape' will no longer be used here regardless of the outcome of the poll, because it is offensive to some people in a different way than this is offensive to some people.

the term 'run' will no longer be applied to it, either, being replaced by either 'demonstration' or 'video', except in the case of cyborg runs, where it is largely felt that the run's inhuman origin is obvious from the term 'cyborg'.

vote away!

Thread title:

Maur

2005-12-16 03:53:45 pm

When did we decide not to use 'run'?

That's just alienation right there. 'Oh, sorry, that stuff you spent months on? It's not even worthy of being called a run. good day.'

nate

2005-12-16 03:56:37 pm

run is short for speed run, which is too heavily associated with m2k2sda (as is the verb form).

arkarian

2005-12-16 03:58:03 pm

red chamber dream

Voted "technical demonstration", though it was a very close call. I would ideally love to call them "cyborg runs", and I still might (and I'll definitely use the term "borging"), but I just feel that other users might be too confused by that term. Which really is their problem, but I'm trying to imagine myself as a newb to the community, and which term would make the most sense. So, "tech demo" it is, though if "cybrog run" wins, I will certainly be a happy camper.

Please take this poll seriously.

GemSweater

2005-12-16 04:08:09 pm

Personally, I would have voted for tool-assisted technical demonstration...but that may be a tad bit too long. So, I voted for technical demonstration, though it was a close call between that and tool-assisted video. Out of the two of those, I believe what I voted for is the least confusing.

edit: However, I always have(and will), call it emu-rape(outside of these boards).

Saturn

2005-12-16 04:08:44 pm

Close call indeed. I like both tech demo and tool assisted videos, about cyborg I agree with Ark.

However I picked tool assisted videos to minimalize the differences between Bisqwits which produces such vids to keep a similar term even in different communities.

Kejardon

2005-12-16 04:24:46 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

I voted for cyborg run. It *should* immediately confuse the reader if they don't know what it's referring to. That way, the reader will ask what it means and learn.
Slowdown assisted is too specific, game manipulation doesn't mean anything, tool-assisted isn't specific enough, technical demonstration should mean something else, and non-legal is too broad. I doubt you can concisely sum up what people should know about these runs with under 5 words, so I think we should pick a name that obviously doesn't mean anything else, and when people ask what it means we can explain. Cyborg fits this requirement best.
Just my rational.

Edit: And though it wasn't mentioned, I *especially* dislike 'Emulator run'. I play most often on the emulator, because it's far more convenient (and for me, the interface is easier). It's starting to seem like people only care about console runs now, and *any* emulator run is invalid. Granted, you have to trust the person who made the emulator run to play fairly, but it's starting to irk me when people always say 'Can you do that on console?'

I voted for cyborg run. It *should* immediately confuse the reader if they don't know what it's referring to. That way, the reader will ask what it means and learn.
Slowdown assisted is too specific, game manipulation doesn't mean anything, tool-assisted isn't specific enough, technical demonstration should mean something else, and non-legal is too broad. I doubt you can concisely sum up what people should know about these runs with under 5 words, so I think we should pick a name that obviously doesn't mean anything else, and when people ask what it means we can explain. Cyborg fits this requirement best.
Just my rational.

Edit: And though it wasn't mentioned, I *especially* dislike 'Emulator run'. I play most often on the emulator, because it's far more convenient (and for me, the interface is easier). It's starting to seem like people only care about console runs now, and *any* emulator run is invalid. Granted, you have to trust the person who made the emulator run to play fairly, but it's starting to irk me when people always say 'Can you do that on console?'

nate

2005-12-16 04:42:07 pm

good to hear i was right to reject emulator run from the poll.

MonsterERB

2005-12-16 05:26:20 pm

Voted for "slowdown-assisted video". The very reason that Kejardon stated for voting against it (too specific) is the very reason I like it. However, all of the choices up on the poll are pretty good. Looks like "cyborg run" is the current popular choice.

DJGrenola

2005-12-16 05:31:15 pm

voted for slowdown-assisted. cyborg is every bit as meaningless as "TAS".

bushwacker

2005-12-16 05:45:47 pm

How about we call it an ASS run... Assisted by Savestates and Slowdown. I see no harm coming from this.

MonsterERB

2005-12-16 05:51:26 pm

LC103 - I swear to God, I thought the EXACT same thing yesterday, then decided not to post it for fear that someone here would take a shine to it. Imagine the reaction over at bisqwit's:

Quote:

Good news - they're not calling our runs "emu-rape" anymore.
Bad news - they're calling them ASS runs instead.

...
Accurate as that name might be... I would have to say it's a bad idea. Laughing

SABERinBLUE

2005-12-16 05:51:40 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from DJGrenola:

voted for slowdown-assisted. cyborg is every bit as meaningless as "TAS".

I'd actually agree with that; basically it means pretty much the same thing as TAS but makes it much cooler-sounding.

Fredrik

2005-12-16 06:19:02 pm

"Slowdown" isn't right -- slowdown is a convenience, but most TAS doesn't rely on it. The use of savestates is much more important.

Smops

2005-12-16 06:32:21 pm

To be able to do a move frame-perfect (there are 60 frames shown a SECOND), you NEED slowdown. So slowdown is used as much as savestates/rewind.

StarmanHaxor

2005-12-16 06:42:54 pm

My vote is for Assisted by Savestates and Slowdown, because it is the most descriptive, not because it spells ASS. It makes the most sense and I think it would to someone new as well.

Red Scarlet

2005-12-16 06:49:26 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Savestate/Slowdown Assisted = SSA.
Savestate and Slowdown Assisted = SaSA.

Just arrange them differently so it isn't seen/intended as the negative order of the letters.

RT-55J

2005-12-16 07:20:46 pm

Armor Guardian

Quote from Smops:

To be able to do a move frame-perfect (there are 60 frames shown a SECOND), you NEED slowdown. So slowdown is used as much as savestates/rewind.

Actually, the vast majority of TASers (pretty much everybody who makes videos worth publishing) don't use slowdown. Instead, they use a nifty feature called 'frame advance' which allows them greater precision.

StarmanHaxor

2005-12-16 07:28:22 pm

its like hitting pause on a DVD player, then hit fast forward, right? It just advances it by a frame?

RT-55J

2005-12-16 07:38:26 pm

Armor Guardian

Quote from StarmanHaxor:

its like hitting pause on a DVD player, then hit fast forward, right? It just advances it by a frame?

You are correct, Sherlock.

Fredrik

2005-12-16 07:45:29 pm

Quote from Smops:

To be able to do a move frame-perfect (there are 60 frames shown a SECOND), you NEED slowdown. So slowdown is used as much as savestates/rewind.

It may be used as much, but it is not as important. There are tricks that rely on slowmotion, but they are the exception; the vast majority of tricks can be pulled off with luck alone, and slowmotion isn't sufficient to deal with luck.

(Also, out of 60 frames a second, typically 50 are spent holding "run" and "forward". In addition, the most skilled players typically play the remaining 10 very nearly optimally, sufficiently nearly for most practical and, above all, aesthetic purposes.)

SAL

2005-12-16 07:59:13 pm

Sorry Nate but nothing sounds to good to me....please to pwnd my face.

Chanoire

2005-12-16 08:08:37 pm

Isn't doing one frame at a time just extreme slowdown? Or am I missing some crucial distinction with frame-advance?

I'd be inclined toward slowdown-assisted even if it doesn't apply to every enhanced run because it does signify that the results were produced using something not available to just popping the cart into the console. Any acronym will be obscure, any non-explicit term likewise...I don't object to cyborg, which has met with approval from a number of people, and I follow Kejardon's reasoning that it's odd enough to prompt investigation or at least awareness that something's different. However, it may also just sound like a type of run regarding gameplay: a NBMB, low-percent, cyborg. The nature of slowdown-assisted is immediately apparent even if that specific tool wasn't used.

JaggerG

2005-12-16 11:39:37 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

You can't call something running if there's no running involved. It'd be like racing with people by slowing everyone down and you can just walk through it all. With savestates you just take a break between steps. And frame by frame...that's not even really transportation at all. That's just taking a step every once in a while.

I just don't really care what we make the "official" name for it around here. That doesn't mean everyone's gonna use it.

DJGrenola

2005-12-16 11:41:37 pm

"DeLorean video" ? ;)

	game manipulation videos (a manipulater manipulates a game)	(4)
	slowdown-assisted videos (a person uses slowdown)	(4)
	cyborg runs (a cyborg borgs)	(12)
	tool-assisted videos (a taser makes a video)	(9)
	technical demonstration (a person makes a tech demo)	(8)
	non-legal videos/demos (a person makes a non-legal video/demo)	(1)