Suitless speedrun

2007-06-14 06:55:32 am

Haha, funny to see the game stripping you off of your speed echoes on the way back from taking Speed Booster. :D

[EDIT]
Wait... Is the Crateria cavern music supposed to be playing in the eastern Crateria after you exit Maridia? I don't remember hearing it there.

Saturn

2007-06-14 02:53:38 pm

I never paid that much attention to the music there, but yeah, it seems to always play the Cavern Theme when coming back from Maridia. Otherwise it plays the Crateria Gunship/Landing side theme.

ducknerd

2007-06-14 04:34:28 pm

Eschews avatars

Nice work! Just watched the run, this is just a random collection of potential improvements to your room strategies and route. I think the time difference between your run and mine is largely due to more small errors in your run, but these might help as well.

*You can get the Blue Brinstar etank with the yellow bug
*gauntlet: cool but SLOW and unnecessary
*Odd, you use a different plant than I do, but the spore spawn glitch still works
*Couldn't you get xray on your way down the shaft for the first time?
*you don't need the rb recharge the 1st time, kraid's etank is on the way
*you can get ice beam right at the beginning of norfair
*Dude, the turtle etank? Way too much time lost
*I'm pretty sure the snail to your right is faster to climb with, because it's right there
*In the two rooms before draygon: frozen mocktroids are a good thing
*Red maridian doors can be safely opened with normal missiles, eliminating the need to refill supers with mocktroids
*You can drain energy by grappling dead turrets while Draygon is on his way to avoid the mocktroid drain
*I concede; xray climbing is faster, but only because it gets you the space jump
*Hmm, question: is there any way to tell when you're offscreen whether you're crouching or standing? This would make the climb much easier.
*In the sandfall room going to the snail room, there is a small tunnel which will save you a few seconds
*Why all the missiles? Plasma beam is more powerful, and you barely have to use them before it
*Wow, we have literally identical Phantoon strategies
*Wrecked ship etank is also way too slow
*You could have refilled on the pre-etecoon enemies to avoid the refill in LN's pillar room (or even have just gotten the power bomb pack that comes later)
*I think it's faster to just kill ridley with plasma shots than to refill on those bugs near the Screw attack room
*I don't know whether it was deliberate, but the silver pirates will still attack even if you aren't hit by their arms
*Couldn't you have taken a quick dip in the lava before ridley rather than sitting around for about 15 seconds?
*When ridley is zigzagging around like he does in the end, you can end the fight just by jumping into his claw
*Both the pillar room and the room after the space pirates can be safely shinesparked through; I've tested this
*Refilling at your ship makes Tourian much faster
*Why didn't you murder beam mother brain? It's indisuptably faster and not all that laggy

Again, really nice work. I learned a lot of little tricks from this that will definitely push down my time.

Nice work! Just watched the run, this is just a random collection of potential improvements to your room strategies and route. I think the time difference between your run and mine is largely due to more small errors in your run, but these might help as well.

*You can get the Blue Brinstar etank with the yellow bug
*gauntlet: cool but SLOW and unnecessary
*Odd, you use a different plant than I do, but the spore spawn glitch still works
*Couldn't you get xray on your way down the shaft for the first time?
*you don't need the rb recharge the 1st time, kraid's etank is on the way
*you can get ice beam right at the beginning of norfair
*Dude, the turtle etank? Way too much time lost
*I'm pretty sure the snail to your right is faster to climb with, because it's right there
*In the two rooms before draygon: frozen mocktroids are a good thing
*Red maridian doors can be safely opened with normal missiles, eliminating the need to refill supers with mocktroids
*You can drain energy by grappling dead turrets while Draygon is on his way to avoid the mocktroid drain
*I concede; xray climbing is faster, but only because it gets you the space jump
*Hmm, question: is there any way to tell when you're offscreen whether you're crouching or standing? This would make the climb much easier.
*In the sandfall room going to the snail room, there is a small tunnel which will save you a few seconds
*Why all the missiles? Plasma beam is more powerful, and you barely have to use them before it
*Wow, we have literally identical Phantoon strategies
*Wrecked ship etank is also way too slow
*You could have refilled on the pre-etecoon enemies to avoid the refill in LN's pillar room (or even have just gotten the power bomb pack that comes later)
*I think it's faster to just kill ridley with plasma shots than to refill on those bugs near the Screw attack room
*I don't know whether it was deliberate, but the silver pirates will still attack even if you aren't hit by their arms
*Couldn't you have taken a quick dip in the lava before ridley rather than sitting around for about 15 seconds?
*When ridley is zigzagging around like he does in the end, you can end the fight just by jumping into his claw
*Both the pillar room and the room after the space pirates can be safely shinesparked through; I've tested this
*Refilling at your ship makes Tourian much faster
*Why didn't you murder beam mother brain? It's indisuptably faster and not all that laggy

Again, really nice work. I learned a lot of little tricks from this that will definitely push down my time.

Saturn

2007-06-14 07:12:47 pm

Thanks for the many notes. Will consider them as much as my skill allows. To save lines I will just put my answer right below your notes:

*You can get the Blue Brinstar etank with the yellow bug
- Yeah, i realized that after seing your segment, but to that time I already did my 1st segment. Of course I will try to use the bug next time.

*gauntlet: cool but SLOW and unnecessary
- Skipping that E-Tank will make LN and especially Ridley much harder. Probably still worth a try though.

*Couldn't you get xray on your way down the shaft for the first time?
- I could, but it would be very risky and would require some slowdowns to wait for enemies to get hit off instead of the much stronger spikes. Doing it later isn't that bad, because I had to refill my energy for Maridia anyway, after getting drained from Norfair.

*you don't need the rb recharge the 1st time, kraid's etank is on the way
- I realized that later. It was too late though.

*you can get ice beam right at the beginning of norfair
- Hmmm, that could also help to keep more energy when coming back from Crocs. Good point to consider.

*Dude, the turtle etank? Way too much time lost
- Again, the decision was made out of fear to get pwned in LN and at Ridley. It was still damn close at him, but I admit I was also kind of lazy to practise him with lower etank amount. If skipping this tank I probably should get the gauntlet one, or Ridley will become very hard.

*I'm pretty sure the snail to your right is faster to climb with, because it's right there
- Was too lazy to test, so took the for me known way. Will be fixed next time.

*Red maridian doors can be safely opened with normal missiles, eliminating the need to refill supers with mocktroids
- I completely forgot about my critical Super Missile amount, and only noticed that after starting the next segment. Will sure be avoided next time.

*You can drain energy by grappling dead turrets while Draygon is on his way to avoid the mocktroid drain
- Realized that after doing the Draygon segment already. :(

*Hmm, question: is there any way to tell when you're offscreen whether you're crouching or standing? This would make the
climb much easier.
- No. Thats exactly the reason why I had to use rerecords there. It's almost impossible to get the many turnarounds done correctly without being able to see Samus.

*In the sandfall room going to the snail room, there is a small tunnel which will save you a few seconds
- Confused. Didn't I use it already?

*Why all the missiles? Plasma beam is more powerful, and you barely have to use them before it
- 1st version ever = more safer play. I was worrying that it might get critical after the many CFs and at Motherbrain-cage. Will skip some of them in the next version, obviously.

*Wrecked ship etank is also way too slow
- Any hints to speed it up by much then?

*I think it's faster to just kill ridley with plasma shots than to refill on those bugs near the Screw attack room
- Supers are faster in any way at Ridley. I just wanted to ease the fight by cutting the time of it down and increase the survive chances from the heat during it.

*I don't know whether it was deliberate, but the silver pirates will still attack even if you aren't hit by their arms
- I know. This were just playing mistakes.

*Couldn't you have taken a quick dip in the lava before ridley rather than sitting around for about 15 seconds?
- True. I just wanted to be on a safe side. Taking a dip in azid could drain you down that fast that it could make the required CF come too late, if not reacting immediately to it.

*When ridley is zigzagging around like he does in the end, you can end the fight just by jumping into his claw
- Was afraid to risk a hit by jumping in a wrong position into it's claws, which would mean game over immediately in my case.

*Both the pillar room and the room after the space pirates can be safely shinesparked through; I've tested this
- Pillar room isn't required if you have Screw Attack. Otherwise yes.

*Refilling at your ship makes Tourian much faster
- Refilling at ship takes much more time than on a recharge station. I highly doubt it would make Tourian faster in the end, since I had enough ammo for everything anyway.

*Why didn't you murder beam mother brain? It's indisuptably faster and not all that laggy
- Mistake. Forgot about it, and only remembered after it was too late already.

Sub 1-hour seems very possible after thinking about all this. I'm not even sure if early WS is really faster than early Maridia, since without Speed Booster and Plasma you will lose much time there. And since Plasma will get collected anyway, and also is "on the way" to WS, it isn't a big detour anyway IMO.

Thanks for the many notes. Will consider them as much as my skill allows. To save lines I will just put my answer right below your notes:

*You can get the Blue Brinstar etank with the yellow bug
- Yeah, i realized that after seing your segment, but to that time I already did my 1st segment. Of course I will try to use the bug next time.

*gauntlet: cool but SLOW and unnecessary
- Skipping that E-Tank will make LN and especially Ridley much harder. Probably still worth a try though.

*Couldn't you get xray on your way down the shaft for the first time?
- I could, but it would be very risky and would require some slowdowns to wait for enemies to get hit off instead of the much  stronger spikes. Doing it later isn't that bad, because I had to refill my energy for Maridia anyway, after getting drained from Norfair.

*you don't need the rb recharge the 1st time, kraid's etank is on the way
- I realized that later. It was too late though.

*you can get ice beam right at the beginning of norfair
- Hmmm, that could also help to keep more energy when coming back from Crocs. Good point to consider.

*Dude, the turtle etank? Way too much time lost
- Again, the decision was made out of fear to get pwned in LN and at Ridley. It was still damn close at him, but I admit I was also kind of lazy to practise him with lower etank amount. If skipping this tank I probably should get the gauntlet one, or Ridley will become very hard.

*I'm pretty sure the snail to your right is faster to climb with, because it's right there
- Was too lazy to test, so took the for me known way. Will be fixed next time.

*Red maridian doors can be safely opened with normal missiles, eliminating the need to refill supers with mocktroids
- I completely forgot about my critical Super Missile amount, and only noticed that after starting the next segment. Will sure be avoided next time.

*You can drain energy by grappling dead turrets while Draygon is on his way to avoid the mocktroid drain
- Realized that after doing the Draygon segment already. :(

*Hmm, question: is there any way to tell when you're offscreen whether you're crouching or standing? This would make the 
climb much easier.
- No. Thats exactly the reason why I had to use rerecords there. It's almost impossible to get the many turnarounds done correctly without being able to see Samus.

*In the sandfall room going to the snail room, there is a small tunnel which will save you a few seconds
- Confused. Didn't I use it already?

*Why all the missiles? Plasma beam is more powerful, and you barely have to use them before it
- 1st version ever = more safer play. I was worrying that it might get critical after the many CFs and at Motherbrain-cage. Will skip some of them in the next version, obviously.

*Wrecked ship etank is also way too slow
- Any hints to speed it up by much then?

*I think it's faster to just kill ridley with plasma shots than to refill on those bugs near the Screw attack room
- Supers are faster in any way at Ridley. I just wanted to ease the fight by cutting the time of it down and increase the survive chances from the heat during it.

*I don't know whether it was deliberate, but the silver pirates will still attack even if you aren't hit by their arms
- I know. This were just playing mistakes.

*Couldn't you have taken a quick dip in the lava before ridley rather than sitting around for about 15 seconds?
- True. I just wanted to be on a safe side. Taking a dip in azid could drain you down that fast that it could make the required CF come too late, if not reacting immediately to it.

*When ridley is zigzagging around like he does in the end, you can end the fight just by jumping into his claw
- Was afraid to risk a hit by jumping in a wrong position into it's claws, which would mean game over immediately in my case.

*Both the pillar room and the room after the space pirates can be safely shinesparked through; I've tested this
- Pillar room isn't required if you have Screw Attack. Otherwise yes.

*Refilling at your ship makes Tourian much faster
- Refilling at ship takes much more time than on a recharge station. I highly doubt it would make Tourian faster in the end, since I had enough ammo for everything anyway.
 
*Why didn't you murder beam mother brain? It's indisuptably faster and not all that laggy
- Mistake. Forgot about it, and only remembered after it was too late already.

Sub 1-hour seems very possible after thinking about all this. I'm not even sure if early WS is really faster than early Maridia, since without Speed Booster and Plasma you will lose much time there. And since Plasma will get collected anyway, and also is "on the way" to WS, it isn't a big detour anyway IMO.

ducknerd

2007-06-14 09:12:14 pm

Eschews avatars

Yet another disjointed post!

Sorry, let me clarify about the energy tanks. I skipped both the wrecked ship tank and the turtle tank, and while lower norfair was no cakewalk, it was quite doable. I got the gauntlet tank later, during the cleanup. It goes much faster with powerbombs, and it replaces an only slightly faster alternative route to brinstar. I think (I'm not positive) it's worth it. All the other cleanup tanks are probably necessary.

I tested the early xray, and yeah, it's way too hard. I could barely do it with savestates!

The tunnel I'm talking about is in the movie attached (I'm now using 1.51). It's really not a huge timesaver, but it's kind of fun to use the third most useless thing in the game, right after moonwalk and missile recharge stations.

It would be theoretically possible to do the shortcut through the Maridian cactus rooms (the ones behind the gray door you use in an any% run). After x-ray climbing out of the water, you could lay a bomb, get struck by it as you deliberately roll out of the wall, and start horizontally (or diagonally) bomb jumping up to the left side. It would be horribly difficult and probably unfeasible in a console run, but it would probably save almost two minutes. Maybe you should use that in your RBO TAS...?

Yet another disjointed post!

Sorry, let me clarify about the energy tanks. I skipped both the wrecked ship tank and the turtle tank, and while lower norfair was no cakewalk, it was quite doable. I got the gauntlet tank later, during the cleanup. It goes much faster with powerbombs, and it replaces an only slightly faster alternative route to brinstar. I think (I'm not positive) it's worth it. All the other cleanup tanks are probably necessary.

I tested the early xray, and yeah, it's way too hard. I could barely do it with savestates!

The tunnel I'm talking about is in the movie attached (I'm now using 1.51). It's really not a huge timesaver, but it's kind of fun to use the third most useless thing in the game, right after moonwalk and missile recharge stations.

It would be theoretically possible to do the shortcut through the Maridian cactus rooms (the ones behind the gray door you use in an any% run). After x-ray climbing out of the water, you could lay a bomb, get struck by it as you deliberately roll out of the wall, and start horizontally (or diagonally) bomb jumping up to the left side. It would be horribly difficult and probably unfeasible in a console run, but it would probably save almost two minutes. Maybe you should use that in your RBO TAS...?

attachment:

sand tunnel.smv

072

2007-06-14 09:16:58 pm

coral to complement blue

How many E-Tanks do you have when going for X-Ray? If you have at least 4, it should be no problem... And you should by that time, right?

ducknerd

2007-06-14 09:22:59 pm

Eschews avatars

You have 2 (or three, if you do early gauntlet) energy tanks, with some damage after all the damage boosting on the way to and during early power bombs, and a reserve tank which is at best partially filled. Also, your only items are morph ball, bombs, and charge beam. I only ever suggested that because I temporarily forgot that the pre-xray room is pretty much one giant spike.

072

2007-06-14 09:26:15 pm

coral to complement blue

Can't you just get X-Ray on the way back from WS?

ducknerd

2007-06-15 12:46:33 am

Eschews avatars

You need xray before WS. Watch saturn's video, it's an unusual route.

Saturn

2007-06-15 01:09:41 pm

Quote from ducknerd:

sand tunnel.smv

Wow, playing this game for more than 12 years I have never seen this tunnel before. Who did discover it? It's useless in any run other than suitless, but it's still a very nice shortcut to remember!

Also you mentioned my WS etank grabbing was way too slow in the suitless run, although I got it pretty much the usual way with the help of space jump. I wonder how you want to speed it up even more, judging from your quote.

The cacti shortcut will of course be used in the RBO TAS, but I will just 1-walljump out of the water there, which is still alot faster than X-Ray climb. Doing the diagonal bomb jump to cross this room on console is definitely out of choice, because you will require multiple diagonal bomb jumps in a row in order to make it over the large pit. It's very unlikely this can be done without savestates, so I wouldn't even try.

In the end one last note:
Your apparently used the "Volume Envelope Height Reading" setting for your sand tunnel smv. It's a mistake many snes9x newbies do because it sounds good at least. In fact this setting can even increase the desync possibilities as far as I have experienced in the past, so it's not recommended to use it when recording a movie. Enable "Fake Mute desync workaround" instead, which generally makes the movies more stable, and prevents desyncs even when different sound settings are used when playbacking the movie.

[quote="ducknerd"][url=http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/download.php?id=1498]sand tunnel.smv[/url][/quote]
Wow, playing this game for more than 12 years I have never seen this tunnel before. Who did discover it? It's useless in any run other than suitless, but it's still a very nice shortcut to remember!

Also you mentioned my WS etank grabbing was way too slow in the suitless run, although I got it pretty much the usual way with the help of space jump. I wonder how you want to speed it up even more, judging from your quote.

The cacti shortcut will of course be used in the RBO TAS, but I will just 1-walljump out of the water there, which is still alot faster than X-Ray climb. Doing the diagonal bomb jump to cross this room on console is definitely out of choice, because you will require multiple diagonal bomb jumps in a row in order to make it over the large pit. It's very unlikely this can be done without savestates, so I wouldn't even try.

In the end one last note:
Your apparently used the "Volume Envelope Height Reading" setting for your sand tunnel smv. It's a mistake many snes9x newbies do because it sounds good at least. In fact this setting can even increase the desync possibilities as far as I have experienced in the past, so it's not recommended to use it when recording a movie. Enable "Fake Mute desync workaround" instead, which generally makes the movies more stable, and prevents desyncs even when different sound settings are used when playbacking the movie.

ducknerd

2007-06-15 01:48:14 pm

Eschews avatars

I actually found that during the xray search in SMI. I spent about ten minutes methodically super missileing, grappling, and crystal flashing every block in that tunnel before I realized it was completely accessible without any suits. I also noticed that I rolled faster, likely due to the fact that the sandfall rooms, if you look, don't actually have water in them. Very strange.

moozooh

2007-06-15 01:53:33 pm

Whoa, I already forgot about the existence of this tunnel, much as the missile refill room to the upper left of Draygon. When I was a kid, I was trying to find the last 2-3 items, one of them I always thought was in maridia, so I did almost all the same things as ducknerd and discovered it by accident.

Saturn

2007-06-15 05:59:52 pm

Nice to hear you found it through Impossible. :)

Since I never used the morphball when falling through such sand pits, I obviously couldn't get into the hole. Also this was just another moozooh-idea to search for items in this sand pit rooms. Even when playing the first time, before finding all items, I somehow knew that they wouldn't be in this rooms, because they seem to be like the save and recharge rooms to me, which never could have any items in them.

ducknerd:
Yeah, it's because there is only the falling sand in that room, which on top of that isn't fullscreen like water is, but splited in 2 lines for each hole. That way the morphball tunnel is filled with nothing and has the usual air state.

Not sure if you decided to ignore, but for the 3rd time, I still wonder how to get WS etank faster than I did in my suitless run. As said I plan to make another, more optimized attempt, so if you can clarify that question, this would eventually be of much help for me.

ducknerd

2007-06-15 08:17:44 pm

Eschews avatars

I'm sorry, thought I clarified it earlier. Must have forgotten to put it in one of my posts. I actually skipped that tank, along with the turtle tank. I made it through Lower Norfair just fine, although I don't think it's possible with fewer tanks.

Also, I'm going to have sporadic internet access for the next month or so, so don't think I've lost interest in the run; I just can't post.

Saturn

2007-06-16 05:39:41 am

Thanks. I just thought you have some weird tech to get it much faster. Skipping it would leave you with 2 less tanks for LN, which will be alot harder than what I did in my run, and I'm pretty sure I will need to improve my skill in this part to get a chance passing it, including Ridley, without any assistance at all. I will consider it anyway.

Also ducknerd, if you are that good to get a 1:03, I would really be interested to see your run, and maybe learn some techs from it as well, so if you make one, please try to record and share it. It's definitely worth.

ducknerd

2007-06-16 01:07:05 pm

Eschews avatars

You sell yourself far short. The run was just a little sloppier than mine, and my route was a bit riskier. Plus, remember, I used occasional tool-assists (the idea was to emulate a practiced run, ie small mistakes allowed, no mistakes that would cost more than 15-20 seconds). I've been working on another run, though, just to demonstrate our combined strategies.

Also, I assure you, LN with two fewer tanks is really not that hard. It's definitely easier than most of upper norfair!

moozooh

2007-06-16 01:58:43 pm

Quote from Saturn:

they seem to be like the save and recharge rooms to me, which never could have any items in them

You will be laughing, but whenever I play a new Metroid game/hack, I always make sure I search through every save/recharge room (except those with two doors in them) in case someone used the logic you described above to deceive a player. >_>

Saturn

2007-06-16 07:16:04 pm

Yeah, nothing surprising for me. It's moozooh after all. :P

Ducknerd, yeah, I realize that skipping 2 tanks wouldn't make LN that hard, IF it wouldn't be just for Ridley. This guy is so damn hard to predict/control over the fight, because he often moves in such a way that you can't avoid a hit of him. Only way is to try manipulating this moves so that he uses others which are better avoidable.

I just finished my 2nd suitless attempt, and this time I not only skipped the gauntlet tank, but also the blue brinstar tank to avoid long backtracking and a double elevator ride. This 2nd version is sure not that entertaining as the first one which got many early items that are hard to get, but it has a better playing quality overall, and a much more optimized route. The result is a completion time of 1:04 which is a 10 min improvement over v1!

After practicing the X-Ray climb patterns, I even managed to get out of Draygons area without ANY savestates and screw ups at all, so this time the run is absolutely, to 100% unassisted in any part.

All segments until LN went pretty fast and easy, but from segment 6 (the one with the Ridley fight) I required many restarts until I got a successful Ridley fight done. And since I skipped Screw Attack in this version as well, I decided to save one last time at the LN save station, to not risk a restart on Ridley in case of a death on the escape.

Now here is the crazy thing: I skipped only the Turtle Tank, not the WS Tank, because I just wanted to be on a safer side, but after many fails at Ridley, I somehow managed to kill him with more than 2 tanks left! Even though I was very lucky to get such a quick and pretty perfect fight, it shows that you could skip even 3 tanks that way. :)

This will be my last attempt for now, because I'm pretty satisfied with the completion time so far, and don't see a way to majorly improve it further with my skill.

Enjoy the run!

Yeah, nothing surprising for me. It's moozooh after all. :P

Ducknerd, yeah, I realize that skipping 2 tanks wouldn't make LN that hard, IF it wouldn't be just for Ridley. This guy is so damn hard to predict/control over the fight, because he often moves in such a way that you can't avoid a hit of him. Only way is to try manipulating this moves so that he uses others which are better avoidable.

I just finished my 2nd suitless attempt, and this time I not only skipped the gauntlet tank, but also the blue brinstar tank to avoid long backtracking and a double elevator ride. This 2nd version is sure not that entertaining as the first one which got many early items that are hard to get, but it has a better playing quality overall, and a much more optimized route. The result is a completion time of 1:04 which is a 10 min improvement over v1!

After practicing the X-Ray climb patterns, I even managed to get out of Draygons area without ANY savestates and screw ups at all, so this time the run is absolutely, to 100% unassisted in any part.

All segments until LN went pretty fast and easy, but from segment 6 (the one with the Ridley fight) I required many restarts until I got a successful Ridley fight done. And since I skipped Screw Attack in this version as well, I decided to save one last time at the LN save station, to not risk a restart on Ridley in case of a death on the escape.

Now here is the crazy thing: I skipped only the Turtle Tank, not the WS Tank, because I just wanted to be on a safer side, but after many fails at Ridley, I somehow managed to kill him with more than 2 tanks left! Even though I was very lucky to get such a quick and pretty perfect fight, it shows that you could skip even 3 tanks that way. :)

This will be my last attempt for now, because I'm pretty satisfied with the completion time so far, and don't see a way to majorly improve it further with my skill.

Enjoy the run!

attachment:

Saturn - SM suitless v2 - 1.04.zip

ducknerd

2007-06-16 10:31:43 pm

Eschews avatars

I've only seen the first two segments thus far, but WOW! This is some impressive stuff! I'm amazed that upper norfair can be done with one fewer tank; it always gave me more trouble than lower norfair. You also pretty much showed me up on the ice beam.

I realized I forgot to mention this before; if you can continue the gravity jump from the noob tube into the next room (shooting a normal missile at the door usually works), you can actually freeze the lowest fish in midair, completely skipping all those super missile hijinks. It looked like you tried to do that in this run, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Saturn

2007-06-17 05:50:02 am

I knew Norfair items with 3 E-Tanks (+1 R-Tank) are possible, because it was in SM Impossible as well (but even without the R-Tank). Since you usually do a save right before the run through the heat, you don't have anything to lose anyway. Early Ice Beam with only 2 tanks would be barely possible as you see (or very risky at least), so delaying it is probably better here.

Regarding the Maridia Tube, thanks for the hint to use a Missile, ducknerd. I actually knew and tried to gravity jump through the door and freeze the fish, but it's much harder with a normal beam shot to open the door in time. Maybe using a Super Missile is even a more easy way, since even if you shot it late, it definitely will open the door in time anyway, because of the much higher acceleration, but I just didn't consider it before. However the timing to freeze the fish is very critical without practise, so it would be a risk to try and waste a uneccesary Missile as well. The total loss is not bigger than 20 sec anyway, so I think I can live with that.

I knew Norfair items with 3 E-Tanks (+1 R-Tank) are possible, because it was in SM Impossible as well (but even without the R-Tank). Since you usually do a save right before the run through the heat, you don't have anything to lose anyway. Early Ice Beam with only 2 tanks would be barely possible as you see (or very risky at least), so delaying it is probably better here.

Regarding the Maridia Tube, thanks for the hint to use a Missile, ducknerd. I actually knew and tried to gravity jump through the door and freeze the fish, but it's much harder with a normal beam shot to open the door in time. Maybe using a Super Missile is even a more easy way, since even if you shot it late, it definitely will open the door in time anyway, because of the much higher acceleration, but I just didn't consider it before. However the timing to freeze the fish is very critical without practise, so it would be a risk to try and waste a uneccesary Missile as well. The total loss is not bigger than 20 sec anyway, so I think I can live with that.

soulhunger

2007-06-27 12:05:10 am

Wow, Saturn, nice!

I didn't realize Draygon's room was escapable via X-ray climbing, so I thought that you'd have to do the crystal flash+get grabbed on the upper ledge, after letting Draygon take you up there. I managed this with savestates, but it seemed unrealistic in a real-time run. Anyway this is definitely looking possible on console. And it can be an interesting run to watch, I think!

Also, for some reason, I didn't have Grapple when I first entered Maridia, so I climbed up the wall by freezing the crab, which was difficult even with savestates. I was following the NBMB guide, though, so I guess I just forgot about Grapple. I think your route makes a console suitless run a real possibility.

Saturn

2007-06-27 01:38:42 am

Thanks.

Quote from soulhunger:

Anyway this is definitely looking possible on console.

It doesn't look possible, it IS possible.

Althought I played it on the emulator, the entire run is done as it were played on console: No slowdowns, no savestates, and in-game saves for multiple segments just like you can do on console. I even played on a original SNES pad which I connect through a adapter to my PC. :)

The only reason I didn't do it on console is because of much easier recording and sharing of the run. Nothing else.