Super Metroid - Reverse Boss Order / Suitless Cyborg Run

2007-01-20 02:28:09 pm

I´ve been wondering this for a while so I´m going to ask about this now... At least I didn´t find any information or discussion about this.

I get the impression that Saturn uses Crystal Flash to obtain the Spore Spawn super missiles. How come Terimakashi (if I remember correctly) does not use CF and manages to get those missiles in his run (suitless test run maybe, up until x-ray)? And why doesn´t Saturn use the same method Teri does?

I´m not sure about the author, but I have this old smv where those Supers are obtained without CF. Wouldn´t that way be better?

moozooh

2007-01-20 03:59:45 pm

What run are you talking about? As far as I know, Terimakasih didn't do any runs other than any% and low%; I haven't seen Jecy's 100% run, but he hardly got them without CF, since the end time was 00:47. All the recent runs I know of that are done on Snes9x all got the SS super missile pack that way as well.

Also, I haven's seen Saturn going for that pack in RBO run, either. If you'd tracked the amount of powerbombs from all the teasers, you'd see that he get the amount required to execute a CF only in third teaser, after returning from red Brinstar through blue Brinstar. After that, his route was old Tourian -> gunship area -> the gauntlet -> green Brinstar again -> red Brinstar -> Norfair. No Spore Spawn super missiles there.

Lance Uppercut

2007-01-20 04:19:14 pm

I´m not sure why it crossed my mind, perhaps there has been some discussion about getting those missiles either here or tasvideos. That third teaser does not provide any sign on whether or not they are obtained. Only one who can answer this question about those supers is Saturn.

This is so old thing that I really don´t remember where I got that smv from, perhaps some japanese site... And I believe that this is Teri´s (or someone else´s perhaps) RBO run, or the beginning of it at least.

Saturn

2007-01-20 05:03:07 pm

Alright, you got me again...

Those who can count will see that I have 20 Supers at Lower Norfair, which is the max. possible if skipping Maridia (which I did) for 3 packs or Phantoon / Gold Torizo (obviously skipped as well) for 3 more packs in total. Those it's clear that I took the Spore Supers.

Now about the CF:
I wanted to keep it secret until the RBO release, but apparently somebody found it as well, so I no longer deny that I didn't use the CF to get this Supers!

Because the CF would drain all the important ammo I did some intensive testing to somehow destroy this Super Block on regular way, and there is indeed a way:
http://rapidshare.com/files/12602987/SM_-_Spore_s_SuperMissile_without_CF.avi.html

You just have to time the shot very exactly with a correct distance and a slight momentum gain during the shot. That way the Super reach the block before it even gets offscreen. :)

This not only saves much ammo, but also around 10-15 sec of time.

moozooh

2007-01-20 05:05:45 pm

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

That third teaser does not provide any sign on whether or not they are obtained.

Now that I think of it, Saturn's super missile (which is 5 in the beginning of the 3rd teaser) count goes from 14 to 18 between Brinstar underground area and big pink room areas. He got the first pack in the Brinstar mockball room, the second in the old Tourian escape shaft, and the third in the Brinstar underground area. Assuming he edited the battle out, it is indeed possible that he fought Spore Spawn for his fourth pack and killed him with a single super missile. In his case, it is indeed faster to kill him quickly and painlessly than to drain out 5-6 energy tanks + one reserve tank, and then refill the ammo lost on CFing.

EDIT: haha, talk about timing. :D

Lance Uppercut

2007-01-20 05:19:11 pm

Saturn, I´m sorry I ruined that surprise you´ve been saving for us but this is what happens when your project takes years grin new

Maybe japanese metroid community might be able to provide more tricks too. I´ll keep my eyes and ears open.

Still, I am relieved that you did use that trick, it´s so cool.

Saturn

2007-01-20 05:45:03 pm

It's ok. I just don't have the time to work on it currently, so it's my fault I guess.

And yeah, we should really take a closer look to the japanese community, they seem to have alot of interesting stuff regarding Super Metroid.

Lawrence Reyome

2007-01-20 06:46:28 pm

Metroid Exp: Exploration - Great, Skills - Decent

Yeah, including two hacks, one which is almost as hard as Impossible :

*cough*Metroid: Limit*cough*

moozooh

2007-01-20 07:34:35 pm

Quote from Saturn:

And yeah, we should really take a closer look to the japanese community, they seem to have alot of interesting stuff regarding Super Metroid.

Too bad they don't interact with us much. :\ Thus far, the only person who is doing that from time to time is catnap222; Terimakasih has left the TAS scene (~2 years ago), and now there's no-one left who has any stable means of communicating with them, or at least no-one that I know of.

ICheatAtGolf

2007-01-20 08:01:59 pm

any news at all on when this is gonna be done?

catnap222

2007-01-20 10:47:04 pm

Quote from Saturn:

http://rapidshare.com/files/12602987/SM_-_Spore_s_SuperMissile_without_CF.avi.html

Oh, you finally find it. Shocked

That trick is the last secret stuff which our japanese community have.
Now we have no new idea for super metroid. :x

the method getting SS supers without CF was my discovery in 2005.
I managed to take it into my RBO run at that time.
Here is smv of my uncompleted RBO run.
http://www9.atwiki.jp/catnap222/?cmd=upload&act=open&page=%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%83%80&file=suitless_xray.zip

Quote from moozooh:

Quote from Saturn:

And yeah, we should really take a closer look to the japanese community, they seem to have alot of interesting stuff regarding Super Metroid.

Too bad they don't interact with us much. :\

Because we are not good at English, reading and writing either...
BananaOyaji, Hotarubi, Sippu can't communicate with english well
Only person who can interact with worldwide people is me. aiwebs_008

BlueGlass

2007-01-20 11:04:39 pm

Quote from Saturn:

Because the CF would drain all the important ammo I did some intensive testing to somehow destroy this Super Block on regular way, and there is indeed a way:
http://rapidshare.com/files/12602987/SM_-_Spore_s_SuperMissile_without_CF.avi.html

What would you say is the possibility of doing this on console?

catnap222

2007-01-20 11:10:21 pm

It can do on console grin new

pretty good trick for 100% run.

Saturn

2007-01-20 11:15:06 pm

I knew, it could only be catnap again! :P

And I agree, it's very well possible on console and doesn't require any special skill except of the knowledge on which position to shot it. Just practise BlueGlass, and try to remember the position from the floor or roof objects there.

BlueGlass

2007-01-20 11:25:09 pm

Woohoo! Thanks.

Time to go update my 100% route, then practice. This will save a huge chunck of time.

EDIT: Also, Saturn, do you have any other "secrets" that would be useful in a speedrun?

Lawrence Reyome

2007-01-20 11:41:57 pm

Metroid Exp: Exploration - Great, Skills - Decent

Catnip's video is good but I do not know what happened after he got the x ray scope. Did it desync or is that the end of the movie? Im using SNES9x 1.43 improvment 9 and the JU rom.

Off-Topic: Catnap I asked for permission to be added to your MSN cause I had a couple questions about some of the hacks, including Limit, if you still talk to Banana.

Off-Topic #2: Saturn, do you still have that song that you used for Teaser #1. I looked for it on p2p and cant find it.

BlueGlass

2007-01-20 11:43:45 pm

Looking at the title, I'm assuming the movie ends at xray.

catnap222

2007-01-21 12:08:51 am

Quote from Lawrence Reyome:

Off-Topic: Catnap I asked for permission to be added to your MSN cause I had a couple questions about some of the hacks, including Limit, if you still talk to Banana.

OK, my e-mail adress is catnap222 (at) hotmail.co.jp.
But Im always off line.
If you have some question, please PM me.
I still talk to Banana and other japanese members. Wink

Lance Uppercut

2007-01-21 04:28:20 am

catnap222, would you mind giving the address of your communitys discussion board (was it nintendon!) ? I´d like to take a look at what you guys have been discussing :)

If you don´t want to post it directly here, PM me.

Oh, and sorry I mistook you for Teri, I just couldn´t remember exactly who was the author of that smv because it really has been a while.

moozooh

2007-01-21 09:53:12 am

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

I´d like to take a look at what you guys have been discussing

Well, have a try. I looked at it today. Very inspiring, granted that I didn't understand a word. laugh new

BlueGlass

2007-01-21 11:22:14 am

Looking around with Google translator helps; I was able to make at least some sense of almost everything I looked at, and I don't think I saw anything completely new, except maybe some TAS-only shinesparks, which might already be known to non-japanese TASers, as I haven't been keeping up with SM TASing.

EDIT: I'm turning into Yoshi: my last two posts were both page breaks.

Lance Uppercut

2007-01-21 12:29:05 pm

Thanks!

Even though there wasn´t anything new or spectacular, it is always nice to see what is going on elsewhere. And while at it, always trying to improve my (quite small) kanji repertoire :)

Saturn

2007-01-21 02:17:30 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

Also, Saturn, do you have any other "secrets" that would be useful in a speedrun?

No, at least so far.

Quote from Lawrence Reyome:

Off-Topic #2: Saturn, do you still have that song that you used for Teaser #1. I looked for it on p2p and cant find it.

I do. Better searching would solve your problem, I think.

And I have to say, catnap has a awesome site there! Many tricks and movies showed in smv's and much more. Especially interesting seems to be this rare 100% test run by hotarubi himself!

Great Stuff catnap!

Tonski

2007-02-16 01:25:39 pm

I'm interested in one thing:

How did you get that energy tank behind the Charge Beam holding Chozo Statue? Since you had no gravity suit and there's only speed boost-breakable blocks how'd you get the boost? Isn't there water down there?

Yes, I know I'm pretty new to the game... (got it on my own on SNES autumn 2006)

DeathNoble

2007-02-16 02:10:14 pm

I'm interested to know exactly how he got Ridley to start his death sequence so quickly. I've unloaded a lot more into Ridley than Saturn did in his preview and Ridley kept coming at me. :-(