0% Fusion solved (but not humanly possible?)

2006-08-21 05:56:17 am

Quote from P.JMan:

The reason I'm on probation is SPAM in the post ya pics topic (and probably insubordination), and I just said about flash cards, people would Google for their ROMs anyway

1% Hard is just 1% with 3 less missiles and worse luck

Sorry I missed that part about the red door Embarassed

I'll get the bob skip video soon, just as soon as I've beaten Nettori

What, beaten Nettori on your 11/12% hard tas run in your sig you mean?

And can someone confirm for me how much health and missiles you get from X on easy or hard, if the bosses do any less damage (I know yakuza's grab attack does the same damage in three times the time, and if power bombs are reduced at all, as I don't have the game yet.

P.JMan

2006-08-21 09:31:20 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Yes, the one in my sig

Yellow X gives 50 energy on easy and 10 energy on normal and hard

Green X gives 10 missiles on easy and 2 missiles on normal and hard

Power Bombs aren't reduced

And bosses health are cut in half on easy, their normal on hard

Bosses do 1.5X more damage on hard and 0.5X on easy

attachment:

0% Skip.vbm

MotherBrainII

2006-08-23 10:31:32 am

Quote from P.JMan:

Yes, the one in my sig

Yellow X gives 50 energy on easy and 10 energy on normal and hard

Green X gives 10 missiles on easy and 2 missiles on normal and hard

Power Bombs aren't reduced

And bosses health are cut in half on easy, their normal on hard

Bosses do 1.5X more damage on hard and 0.5X on easy

But the version difference page says you get much less health and missiles on hard from X. So does this mean the only difference between easy and hard is the reduced E-tanks, missiles and more damage from bosses (what about normal enemies)?

EDIT: thanks for the vid, but I still can't seem to download it. nvm, though, I found a vid of the skip on youtube.

Tahngarthor

2007-01-29 12:22:18 pm

Bangaa Bishop

Sorry for the necro but I just stumbled upon this thread and I was wondering which missile was originally thought unskippable? The video at the beginning is gone and I don't have fusion for an emulator so I cant use the vbm. Any chance someone could repost the AVI or make one? (And why isnt this on the fusion page?)

JaggerG

2007-01-29 12:36:04 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

bob

EDIT: I never realized it linked to a topic as opposed to an explanation. >_> hold up....

Dragonfangs

2007-01-29 12:38:36 pm

http://dfangs.metroid2002.com Segment 5.
Or:

About the trick's absence on the site, nate felt that anything that cannot be done on console shouldn't be on the site. Personally, I think it fits in the "other" section with a disclaimer.

nate

2007-01-29 03:17:37 pm

problem is people who don't read.

someone who wants it on the site can do it on console.

Tahngarthor

2007-01-29 04:27:31 pm

Bangaa Bishop

Perhaps one simply didnt stumble upon such a rule of thumb and thus didn't know. I ended up in this thread after it was linked elsewhere.

There's no need for a saracastic/flip response. Thanks for the link and explanation dragonfangs I'll go check that out.

I dont have a "problem" with it not being there, I just thought it was odd that the only real sequence break (even if it requires frame-by-frame precision a human cant realistically achieve) was missing.

nate

2007-01-29 09:04:33 pm

didn't mean that to be sarcastic if you took it that way. it's just a simple thing to me.

Tonski

2007-03-07 04:56:01 pm

I'm curious. Yes or no question:

Has anyone done this on cart so that any of us know about it?

P.JMan

2007-03-07 05:05:03 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Nope

Tonski

2007-03-07 05:26:11 pm

I wanna try it! :P I'm about to buy Fusion from this finnish site, and hell, if I could do the shinespark before Draygon on Super Metroid in SS run I think I have at least some kind of possibilities for this one. This kind of run would really have some kind of difficulty I might say, no wonder SDA doesn't have any records of it.

Can't wait to get my hands on Fusion... laugh new

nate

2007-03-07 08:13:11 pm

having said that, people have come very close. you can probably do it if you work hard enough.

Riplight

2007-03-07 09:08:48 pm

Spidey-Widey seems to have come really close. As for me, I can't even get up to the door. I've decided that as much as I like Fusion, I'll never be super great at it.

In other news, I wish Wassup was still here.

Tonski

2007-03-08 05:02:23 am

Quote from nate:

having said that, people have come very close. you can probably do it if you work hard enough.

Yeah, but the chances are really nothing. I couldn't even think how it would feel to die on that Security Robot/B.O.X./whatever after getting the shinespark. Even if someone/I would happen to make that shinespark, it would take countless tries. Didn't people discuss about the shinespark done in that TAS being done on the last pixel possible or so? If frame perfection is required then it's almost impossible.

...note, almost impossible... Enough trying and practicing and that shinespark just might be done on cart.

JaggerG

2007-03-08 05:56:07 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

It's not exactly frame perfect. There are three frames of error room. If you're three frames short, you still might be able to pull it off.

But you have to understand the preciseness of frames. First, pull off the Corrolax speed trick in PYR I. Then, get ice missiles in reverse. These are both harder than the correct version of the secret message, so you have to be able to pull THAT off, too. These are your prerequisites. Note that the Corrolax speed trick (only needing perfection on one frame) is easier than the reverse ice missiles (requiring one perfect frame and a couple really close calls, maybe at least 20 frames of error). If reverse ice missiles has that much room for error, and it's THAT hard, you really should not expect anyone to be frame perfect for a straight five or so seconds, considering all that crazy jumping and quick-landing you have to do. The fastest I've probably recovered from charging a shine on console is probably at least a couple frames from perfect already.

Besides, there's a save right under BOX's room after you get the super missiles, so don't you DARE try to skip it if you ever pull the Bob skip off. Be sure you have a copy of the save file before the trick, too.

It's not exactly frame perfect. There are three frames of error room. If you're three frames short, you still might be able to pull it off.

But you have to understand the preciseness of frames. First, pull off the Corrolax speed trick in PYR I. Then, get ice missiles in reverse. These are both harder than the correct version of the secret message, so you have to be able to pull THAT off, too. These are your prerequisites. Note that the Corrolax speed trick (only needing perfection on one frame) is easier than the reverse ice missiles (requiring one perfect frame and a couple really close calls, maybe at least 20 frames of error). If reverse ice missiles has that much room for error, and it's THAT hard, you really should not expect anyone to be frame perfect for a straight five or so seconds, considering all that crazy jumping and quick-landing you have to do. The fastest I've probably recovered from charging a shine on console is probably at least a couple frames from perfect already.

Besides, there's a save right under BOX's room after you get the super missiles, so don't you DARE try to skip it if you ever pull the Bob skip off. Be sure you have a copy of the save file before the trick, too.

Tonski

2007-03-08 06:06:26 am

Yes, as I've stated I did the pre-Draygon shinespark in Super Metroid in my latest SS run so pretty much know the preciceness of frames. It doesn't take much to lose the shine.

First, all these facts will not take my mind down. No matter how hard or frame precise it has to be, I am going to try it. The fact that no one has ever done it just keeps my mind focused on it.

Second, I still don't own the Fusion, I'm about to buy it any day now. Rolling Eyes

You know... Watching this post I'm about to submit gave me a terrible deja vu. Feels like I've done the same post earlier in my life. grin new

JaggerG

2007-03-08 06:25:05 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

It's just that it seems like some tail of heroism or something. "You can't do it. It's too hard, probably impossible!" "But I CAN if I BELIEVE!" :^P

Seriously though, I'm gonna be rootin' for you, but not until you do those other tricks. Though I feel kind of bad assuming pre-Draygon shinespark had only been as hard as reverse ice missiles, though (probably the hardest trick you could actually use in a Fusion speedrun, but I suppose not as hard as the best from any other game). I should expect Super tricks to be a lot harder than Fusion tricks.

Tonski

2007-03-08 07:31:31 am

Quote from JaggerG:

It's just that it seems like some tail of heroism or something. "You can't do it. It's too hard, probably impossible!" "But I CAN if I BELIEVE!" :^P

Seriously though, I'm gonna be rootin' for you, but not until you do those other tricks. Though I feel kind of bad assuming pre-Draygon shinespark had only been as hard as reverse ice missiles, though (probably the hardest trick you could actually use in a Fusion speedrun, but I suppose not as hard as the best from any other game). I should expect Super tricks to be a lot harder than Fusion tricks.

Hahaha.

Feel free to call me naive. I just think if there's any chance of doing this trick then it must be done. And don't get me wrong it won't be easy, and I don't even know am I ever going to get it done. It's probably gonna take like million tries before even coming close. "BUT I CAN if I BELIEVE!" haha laugh new

Anyway I really should first practice with those tricks you said earlier. :P I'm not getting ahead of anything but this whole 0% thing just got me all worked up at the minute I read about it. Just think about it: seeing the 0% completion in the end on your GBA.

[quote="JaggerG"]It's just that it seems like some tail of heroism or something. "You can't do it. It's too hard, probably impossible!" "But I CAN if I BELIEVE!" :^P

Seriously though, I'm gonna be rootin' for you, but not until you do those other tricks. Though I feel kind of bad assuming pre-Draygon shinespark had only been as hard as reverse ice missiles, though (probably the hardest trick you could actually use in a Fusion speedrun, but I suppose not as hard as the best from any other game). I should expect Super tricks to be a lot harder than Fusion tricks.[/quote]

Hahaha.  :grinnew:  Feel free to call me naive. I just think if there's any chance of doing this trick then it must be done. And don't get me wrong it won't be easy, and I don't even know am I ever going to get it done. It's probably gonna take like million tries before even coming close. "BUT I CAN if I BELIEVE!" haha :laugh:

Anyway I really should first practice with those tricks you said earlier. :P I'm not getting ahead of anything but this whole 0% thing just got me all worked up at the minute I read about it. Just think about it: seeing the 0% completion in the end on your GBA.

P.JMan

2007-03-08 11:17:29 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from JaggerG:

It's not exactly frame perfect. There are three frames of error room.

Actually there are 7 frames of error room 8-) , also your spark lasts 180 frames (3 seconds NTSC or 3.6 seconds PAL)

Quote from Tonski:

and hell, if I could do the shinespark before Draygon on Super Metroid in SS run I think I have at least some kind of possibilities for this one.

The thing is, to do that you just need to be able to wall-jump fashionably, with the bob skip you need

* the 1st jump perfect so that you don't hit the platform's edge* you have to press down then up then right then jump (with-in the 7 frame limit) instead of just pressing down-right and jumping* you have to shoot frame perfectly (too late and you don't land, too early you don't reach the platform)* If you don't jump at the end then you've lost a frame or 2

nate

2007-03-08 12:04:09 pm

my recommendation would be to try holding the controller in a different way than you normally do. this is how i was able to get so close. what i was doing was holding the controller (originally a hori pad, later a gb sp hooked up to my gbp) upside down. this allowed me to "claw" (use more than one finger to control) the d-pad for the shine charge. the idea is to hit down, then up, then left all on sequential frames: don't press down and you won't shine charge, don't press up and you will get stuck crouching, don't press left and you won't start moving again and will shinespark instead of jumping properly (probably over half my attempts failed at this point for this exact reason).

videos:
http://nate.quandra.org/attempt_01.avi
http://nate.quandra.org/attempt_02.avi

those should be divx. i use vdub to step through frame by frame. note that these videos are outdated; faster methods (with more frames to spare) have since been found.

Tonski

2007-03-08 05:58:55 pm

I watched those attempts really many times, and that was really close... Almost close enough to succeed in skipping bob. I'm really excited for trying that, but I'm getting my Fusion after 20th March... :( I just wish someone would succeed in it. The trick is just laughing there in all it's evilness thinking no one can ever pull it off. Evil or Very Mad

nate

2007-03-08 06:22:06 pm

indeed, if 0% on the console is confirmed, then it goes on the site.

JaggerG

2007-03-09 05:52:32 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

So...

...see you in a month? :^P

P.JMan

2007-03-09 03:01:29 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Mind you, you have to be absolutely frame perfect to use the wall-jump method, so it's best not to use it. Also nate, you should work on the down-up-right-jump part better, I could imagine you pulling it off if you did