One of Nesvideos finest TAS is done!! JXQ's 100% run!

2006-04-24 03:04:20 pm

Responding to moozooh's questions:
...
1. I really don't want to have to download extra software to watch a speedrun. I've already got the standard video packages (WMP/DivX/VLC), and that should be enough. If I can just click a "download" link and watch the vid in VLC, it's much less hassle than if I have to try to figure out how to download a torrent, or install an emulation program. Convenience is a factor for me, as since others have mentioned previously, my free time is scant (family & work will ALWAYS come before gaming). While I'm at home, I'm taking care of the kids, the house, the dogs/cats/fish, or sleeping. Occasionally I might actually get to PLAY a game, usually by exchanging sleep time for gaming time. Modifying my work computer is NOT an option.
...
2. One of my primary motivating factors in watching a speedrun is improving my own performance in that game. So, if the 0:39 100% SM run contains tricks possible only on an emulator, then the run becomes less interesting for me, as I'm a console SM player. If, as nate hinted, the run contains some tricks that a console runner could actually do, it becomes more interesting.
...
3. So, while it may have seemed like I was waffling or changing positions, it was more that watching a run that:
- would require one or more software installations to view
- would contain very few, if not zero, techniques I could use
was not attractive to me. On the other hand, if the run becomes a downloadable .avi, and contains a few tricks or routes that might prove useful, it becomes more attractive to me.

Responding to moozooh's questions:
...
1.  I really don't want to have to download extra software to watch a speedrun.  I've already got the standard video packages (WMP/DivX/VLC), and that should be enough.  If I can just click a "download" link and watch the vid in VLC, it's much less hassle than if I have to try to figure out how to download a torrent, or install an emulation program.  Convenience is a factor for me, as since others have mentioned previously, my free time is scant (family & work will ALWAYS come before gaming).  While I'm at home, I'm taking care of the kids, the house, the dogs/cats/fish, or sleeping.  Occasionally I might actually get to PLAY a game, usually by exchanging sleep time for gaming time.  Modifying my work computer is NOT an option.
...
2.  One of my primary motivating factors in watching a speedrun is improving my own performance in that game.  So, if the 0:39 100% SM run contains tricks possible only on an emulator, then the run becomes less interesting for me, as I'm a console SM player.  If, as nate hinted, the run contains some tricks that a console runner could actually do, it becomes more interesting.
...
3.  So, while it may have seemed like I was waffling or changing positions, it was more that watching a run that:
- would require one or more software installations to view
- would contain very few, if not zero, techniques I could use
was not attractive to me.  On the other hand, if the run becomes a downloadable .avi, and contains a few tricks or routes that might prove useful, it becomes more attractive to me.

nate

2006-04-24 06:48:22 pm

Quote from Saturn:

Quote from nate:

due to past comments i have made on the subject of tas, it was perhaps inevitable that guest tasers here would interpret my threat as against them, when it was in fact intended to protect them.

Well, honestly, I can't see how you did that.

basically, people were going to flame you and then defend you from the flames instead of talking about the jxq tas like you are supposed to be doing in this topic (so i was trying to keep the anti-tas crap down and enforce forum rules simultaneously). however, i clearly do not have the time right now to babysit you people ("you people" = everyone who has off-topic posts in this topic), but i will in the near future.

Quote from Saturn:

All your comments in previous topics of TAS'es (especially the RBO topic) have shown very well that you were strongly against them.

apparently i have been equally as cryptic as ekarderif when it comes to what i dislike. i will put together a presentation about what i am actually against as soon as my schedule allows, and then everything will be crystal clear. for now, you will just have to sit and be amused by me saying that i am not against tas.

[quote="Saturn"][quote="nate"]due to past comments i have made on the subject of tas, it was perhaps inevitable that guest tasers here would interpret my threat as against them, when it was in fact intended to protect them.[/quote]
Well, honestly, I can't see how you did that. [/quote]
basically, people were going to flame you and then defend you from the flames instead of talking about the jxq tas like you are supposed to be doing in this topic (so i was trying to keep the anti-tas crap down and enforce forum rules simultaneously). however, i clearly do not have the time right now to babysit you people ("you people" = everyone who has off-topic posts in this topic), but i will in the near future.

[quote="Saturn"]All your comments in previous topics of TAS'es (especially the RBO topic) have shown very well that you were strongly against them.[/quote]
apparently i have been equally as cryptic as ekarderif when it comes to what i dislike. i will put together a presentation about what i am actually against as soon as my schedule allows, and then everything will be crystal clear. for now, you will just have to sit and be amused by me saying that i am not against tas.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-24 09:32:42 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Quote from nate:

meant 5:50 in the avi about the mockball. it occurred to me after i posted that you do have to slow down after completing the mockball to get on the elevator, so it's probable that it's no faster than taking the speed hit earlier, but that's something for the frame counters to sort out.

scarlet, sorry for forgetting about that in your 1:00. i've seen the 0:55 probably 20 or 30 times since the 1:00, so i guess i've been brainwashed by it. :P

Just giving you a hard time.

LordJimmy

2006-04-25 10:37:00 pm

Quote from 13M13:

Use v1.43+ v9.

Also, check your rom with NSRT and make sure the CRC32 reads "D63ED5F8".

It reads 6CA0B414. Do I have a bad rom or something? I got it from *zot* if you want to know.

Yoshi348

2006-04-25 10:42:42 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Woah woah, we'll be having no linking to rom sites on this forum. 'Cause then that's all people ever do.

LordJimmy

2006-04-26 12:12:51 am

Quote from Yoshi348:

Woah woah, we'll be having no linking to rom sites on this forum. 'Cause then that's all people ever do.

OCRA- Sorry, I won't do it again.

13M13

2006-04-26 12:42:43 am

l'appel du vide

Quote from LordJimmy:

Quote from 13M13:

Use v1.43+ v9.

Also, check your rom with NSRT and make sure the CRC32 reads "D63ED5F8".

It reads 6CA0B414. Do I have a bad rom or something?

Yep. I don't recommend getting 'em at Zot.

SF_FireSoul

2006-04-26 01:04:50 am

Quote from MonsterERB:

Quote from nate:

..and many thanks, monster, for being so siggable...

* doesn't see anything he posted here in nate's sig, or anyone's sig, for that matter *

I think nate was talking about in your sig how it says Nate: It's not easy being a badass.. I think maybe but I'm not 100% sure

SABERinBLUE

2006-04-26 01:38:11 am

Cook of the Sea

No, that's not what he meant.

But JXQ, I just watched the run, and man oh man, was it jawdropping. I love the way you don't simply do the necessary actions for speed; you have fun with it and use dead time to mess around or make visual jokes. Also your choice of when or how to perform necessary actions makes for funny or neat or simply beautiful moments. This is the reason I like TAS, because they take a canvas and do things with it. Well done, man.

Chanoire

2006-04-26 04:13:39 am

Quote from SF_FireSoul:

I think nate was talking about in your sig how it says Nate: It's not easy being a badass.. I think maybe but I'm not 100% sure

If you look at the dates on tneir posts you'll see that they were several days ago...a long time in the life of a messageboard. If you read the rest of the thread you'll see that the contents of Nate's sig at the time are discussed and that Monster eventually requested that the quote be removed from Nate's sig, which he had already done. In passing you may note that the reason Monster made the inquiry you are attempting to answer is because Nate's posts which had been made before he added the quote to his sig had had signatures disabled so the quote wasn't showing in them.

Regarding the TAS, I now have it on my comp courtesy of Grenola, but keep getting home at midnight and haven't had time to watch. :( I'm really looking forward to it. Sounds like there's good choreography.

KennyMan666

2006-04-26 11:08:01 am

Viking

Precursor

Watched this TAS when it was published - and holy crap, it was awesome.

I won't really take part in the console run vs. TAS argument, but I'll drop of my two cents anyway... I like watching - and to an extent doing, even though I haven't played around too much with the TAS instruments - both. But, since I have tried both ways, I know they require different kinds of playing skill, so to me it just feels stupid to even try to compare them.

SF_FireSoul

2006-04-26 05:28:26 pm

I don't see what is so great about it.... I tried downloading the smv file and it is the same thing over and over again.... then I tried watching the avi and it doesn't even work..codec error... anyone know what I can do to fix this?

13M13

2006-04-26 06:22:05 pm

l'appel du vide

Watch the movie with VLC.

SABERinBLUE

2006-04-26 07:10:55 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from SF_FireSoul:

I don't see what is so great about it.... I tried downloading the smv file and it is the same thing over and over again.... then I tried watching the avi and it doesn't even work..codec error... anyone know what I can do to fix this?

Difficult to see what is so great about something you have been unable to view.

SF_FireSoul

2006-04-27 12:00:47 am

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

Quote from SF_FireSoul:

I don't see what is so great about it.... I tried downloading the smv file and it is the same thing over and over again.... then I tried watching the avi and it doesn't even work..codec error... anyone know what I can do to fix this?

Difficult to see what is so great about something you have been unable to view.

Sry it was just frustrating watching the same thing over and over for 10 minutes then finally getting the avi and figuring out that my wmplayer won't play it....

LordJimmy

2006-04-27 02:09:56 am

Has someone uploaded the AVI to google video?

Bp_

2006-04-27 10:47:49 am

Quote from LordJimmy:

Has someone uploaded the AVI to google video?

go download the torrent and you have it :)

moozooh

2006-04-27 03:25:38 pm

Quote from SF_FireSoul:

Sry it was just frustrating watching the same thing over and over for 10 minutes then finally getting the avi and figuring out that my wmplayer won't play it....

Get either VLC or ffdshow. In the latter case, you'll be able to watch it through WMP.

SF_FireSoul

2006-04-28 01:13:37 am

Sweet ass. I finally got to watch it. It was beatiful. even gave me a few ideas. Just curious, I know its a tas, but how could he get the shinespark so fast? that's just ridiculous. His speed was just amazing. Two thumbs up. That was awesome..

Red Scarlet

2006-04-28 04:54:34 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

It has something to do with pressing the run button at certain frames, or something like that. Surely someone more familiar with it can give a proper explanation. AFAIK it isn't very usable in real-time, due to the precise timing of hitting the run button.

Saturn

2006-04-28 11:16:05 am

http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/SuperMetroidTricks.html#charge_shinespark_in_shorter_distance_

Kejardon

2006-04-28 03:38:59 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

It is usable in real time, but you're never going to get it as perfect as it is in a TAS. You just have to be holding run every time Samus's foreground leg hits the ground. You can consistently cut off about 3-4 blocks from the distance with some practice.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-29 04:12:47 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

What's the over/under frame space for getting it right? Is it only the frame where the foot hits the ground, or is there some leeway?

Edit: according to Saturn's link, it's on 4 particular frames..something a person is going to mess up on and not find it very reliable I would imagine.

Kejardon

2006-04-29 04:35:00 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

There's no need to worry about pressing run on *exactly* the right frame unless you're trying to do a perfect short charge (as I said, you don't really have a chance of doing a perfect short charge on console, but you can still get a decent short charge consistently). The check is simply whether or not you're holding the button at that time, it doesn't matter when you started holding it.
All you have to do is start holding the button a moment before Samus's foot hits the ground, and release it a moment after. Try it some time. Once you get the hang of it, it's much easier than you'd think.

JXQ

2006-04-29 12:04:16 pm

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

This is the reason I like TAS, because they take a canvas and do things with it. Well done, man.

Thanks, I agree with this idea of TASing. In my opinion, some games aren't too entertaining for a TAS if all they offer is the console speedrun's idea, just with more precision. I was happy I was able to use a somewhat different route since I could manipulate things like enemy drops and Crocomire's actions.

Quote from Red Scarlet:

according to Saturn's link, it's on 4 particular frames..something a person is going to mess up on and not find it very reliable I would imagine.

Hmm, I wrote most of the explanations on that page, let me see if I can explain it better:

To get speed-echoes, you have to press dash on four specific frames at the very minimum. Each of these presses will increment a counter in memory, and when it reaches 4, echoes begin. Seperately, each frame run is held, Samus's speed increases a bit (regardless if it's a frame that increments the counter or not). So the more precisely you can hit these four frames with dash, and others without hitting dash, the shorter the distance needed to charge a shinespark. In a TAS, this is just taken to ultimate precision by pressing dash only on those four frames.

It's an extension of this trick. The frame to press dash the first time is 25 frames after forward motion begins, so by waiting a bit before beginning to hold dash, you are removing the beginning speed increase, and taking advantage of this property of the speed booster in a more subtle way.

[quote="SABERinBLUE"]This is the reason I like TAS, because they take a canvas and do things with it.  Well done, man.[/quote]
Thanks, I agree with this idea of TASing.  In my opinion, some games aren't too entertaining for a TAS if all they offer is the console speedrun's idea, just with more precision.  I was happy I was able to use a somewhat different route since I could manipulate things like enemy drops and Crocomire's actions.

[quote="Red Scarlet"]according to Saturn's link, it's on 4 particular frames..something a person is going to mess up on and not find it very reliable I would imagine.[/quote]
Hmm, I wrote most of the explanations on that page, let me see if I can explain it better:

To get speed-echoes, you have to press dash on four specific frames at the very minimum.  Each of these presses will increment a counter in memory, and when it reaches 4, echoes begin.  Seperately, each frame run is held, Samus's speed increases a bit (regardless if it's a frame that increments the counter or not).  So the more precisely you can hit these four frames with dash, and others without hitting dash, the shorter the distance needed to charge a shinespark.  In a TAS, this is just taken to ultimate precision by pressing dash only on those four frames.

It's an extension of [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/3/techniques_quick_charge.php]this trick[/url].  The frame to press dash the first time is 25 frames after forward motion begins, so by waiting a bit before beginning to hold dash, you are removing the beginning speed increase, and taking advantage of this property of the speed booster in a more subtle way.